Jake Brancatella | Reflections & Reasons for Rejecting Quran-Only-movement | Mindtrap with Mufti #29
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2020
- Navigating through Crucial Conversations & Difficult Dialogues on Faith in our World today.
*[Timestamps below]
Guest:
Jake Brancatella
NJ, US
Islamic Academic
CZcams channel:
/ @themuslimmetaphysician
*The objective of these videos is to bring to the public such conversations that have for too long remained private for the privileged and seldom spoken before the flock.
And so the legend has it, the noose eventually loosened from around the neck of Liberty.
With Love
MALM
Timestamps:
Brother Jake's work has personally helped me alot. I love him for the sake of Allah. May Allah keep him steadfast on the true deen of Quran and the Sunnah, ameen
which work?
Quran 6:116 If you obey the MAJORITY of those on earth they will lead you away from GOD's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
.
Quran 12:103 And MAJORITY of the people, even if you are diligent, will not believe.
.
Quran 12:106 The MAJORITY of those who believe in GOD do not do so without committing idol worship.
.
Quran 3:110 ... from among them are the believers, but the MAJORITY are the wicked.
.
Quran 16:83 They fully recognize GOD's blessings, then deny them; MAJORITY of them are disbelievers.
.
Quran 19:73 When our revelations are recited to them, clearly, those who disbelieve say to those who believe, "Which of us is more prosperous? Which of us is in the MAJORITY?"
.
Quran 5:59 Say: "O people of the Book, do you hate us simply because we believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down before?" Alas, the MAJORITY of them are wicked.
.
Quran 9:8 ... They seek to please you with their words, but their hearts deny, and the MAJORITY of them are wicked.
.
Quran 29:63 And if you ask them: "Who sends down water from the sky, thus reviving the land after its death?" They will say: "God." Say: "Praise be to God." But MAJORITY of them do not comprehend.
.
Quran 12:38 ... That is the blessings of God over us and over the people, but MAJORITY of the people are not thankful.
.
Quran 10:60 And what will those who invent lies about God think on the Day of Resurrection? God is with great bounty to the people, but MAJORITY of them are not thankful.
.
Quran 10:36 MAJORITY of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
@@batman-sr2pxp
Po Po pppppp
@@batman-sr2px 5 cubby zzz the xu tell jl
I liked this kind of comparative teaching inlight of other interpretations. continue Mufti we need more of these lectures.
Great presentation, may Allah reward you both for providing this context and information about this movement
mufti, let the interview flow and stop interrupting, jazakallah khair
Alhumdulillah well done brother Jake. Ma sha Allah you stumped the mufti.
Bruh what
He didn't stump the mufti lol
The famous verse about hand cutting for thief quran 5:38
when people go to the next immediate verse 5:39, it say " But whoever repents after his wrongdoing and reforms, indeed, Allah will turn to him in forgiveness. indeed, Allah is Forgiving and merciful"
What you trying to say
interesting point of view and great discussion guys
Mufti saab maybe I can help with your audio issue #Teamviewer. Watched half of this live and was absolutely buzzing that you guys touched upon topics and questions that the tribal religious institutions don't dare to challenge or question. We should never be fearful to scrutinies the text of the Qu'ran because it will bring us greater understanding and further increase our iman. Those that don't have faith that the Qu'ran was sent down by Allah please exit the discussion now because your shaky faith won't survive the coming discussions.
Think Jake should have a session with shuaib abdullahi. It would be a great learning for alot of truth seekers on your platform Mufti sahab
I am happy to find people who shares exactly same thoughts as I do. Lot of love to Jake and Mufti ❤🇮🇳😊
I watched the whole Edip Yuksel Mind Trap. Once he said that 'Rashad is a Messenger who recieves revelation from Allah'. That's it.
I’d say even that’s not as bad as saying that some ayahs are not part of Quran and later additions because it doesn’t work with this 19 thing is Kufr !
@@imran.abbasi yes I found this it recently too. These Qur'an only people are definitely dishonest.
Yes that’s exactly when I unsubscribed to edip and stopped listening …
Dear Mufti Sahib did Allah said any where in Quran that Face the Qibla when you are ready to "Aqimo Salah"???
Wow.. just completed watching.. Jake is cool and intelligent. Mufti thank u for bringing him up and having this discussion. This open minded discussion is happening because of you mufti.. especially your mind trap with some follow-up on last episode.. kudos.. you are doing it..
Would love it if you could bring Edip Yuksel back for his responses to this. Thank you again Mufti Saab for your time and effort :)
I second that motion 🍒
@@edipyuksel Honored to have you reply to my comment :) Inshallah I look forward to another session between you and mufti!
I re-heared this session with
Jake Brancatella to make sure I understood and picked up all the points he brought up! Jake is really smart! Impressed! Mufti Ji brings amazing conversationalists! 19 was exaggerated by Edip, for example 1+2= 3, So how do I use 19 now? lol
786nath No, cause I’m not interested in yours.
@@zebakhawaja3464
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Your replied killed it
Ali Ditta 🤟🏼😎
Zebha, this is all mess up and made up. So let us read Anjeels and get everylasting life. I am almost going to hit my head against the wall.
love dove I do read Anjeel. Psalms 91 is very relaxing to the soul. We need to read the Quran , Torah and Anjeel and Books of Proverbs and Book of trees, they all mentions God Mercy and Truth and increase us in knowledge and love and peace. And become like Mufti Ji, he has a heart of God and Love Alhumdulillah we follow a righteous Queen Elizabeth and we have good laws, rules and policies and people living in the UK and Canada are blessed like in Heaven.
Damnnnnnn that proof that Brother Jake used about the Qibla is amazing! That is a clear proof right there (if it's indeed true that it's not written anywhere in the Qur'an which I trust isn't) that the Prophet Muhammad (Sallallahu Alaihi wa sallam PEACE AND BLESSINGS OF GOD BE UPON HIM) was receiving instructions OTHER than the Qur'an. Lol They like to say Qur'an Qur'an that's all he gotttttttt.... then how did he get the first Qibla.....?
Straw-man argument over qiblah.
Qur'anists reject everything not in the Qur'an so how did the Messenger know where to pray before qiblah was changed to masjid al Haraam, as this was revelation that is not in the Qur'an?
If it had been revelation from Allah to pray towards another qiblah, hadith says Jerusalem but philosopher Jake is not sure, then why would the Messenger be looking towards the heavens to get it changed? Was he questioning Allah's original decision? To believe it was revelation that is not in the Qur'an does not make sense, a false argument to prove a false belief.
You may say, and still be wrong, that the Messenger chose somewhere else himself and was not satisfied and asked Allah to sort it out. This still means it is not revelation and makes the first decision a human one, to err is to be human, so negates blind following of the hadith as religious dogmas to unquestionably followed.
Anyway, qiblah is ideology direction, not pooja prayer one.
@@truehikma The verse itselfs answers your question. I seriously can't believe why you guys call yourself quranists you clearly dont read it well enough. The prophet pbuh didnt question Allah, Allah says in the verse "We will.surely turn you to a qiblah of your liking" which indicates that the prophet pbuh preferred the qiblah to be Mecca and Allah granted him this.
@@ilias4609 So he preferred something else that Allah had already ordained for him, which is the argument for revelation outside of the Qur'an that Bukharians have to create to justify un-Qur'anic beliefs and practices. That is my point.
The argument says that revelation was given to the Messenger to pray towards Jerusalem, which is not in the Qur'an, so everything not in the Qur'an is also revelation and a binding obligation to follow as denial of what Allah has revealed is apostacy. Do you understand the implications of this argument? Everything men say in the name of the Messenger is authorised from Allah!
You keep rejecting Allah's words when He say Quran is fully detailed and explain everything. You seems proud of it by laughing. I dont get it
@@ilias4609 kiblah doesn't mean direction of praying. It is a meeting point. So as a political leader, muhammad has his own decision, but it is not part of Allah's deen. Quran is perfect, fully detailed, and explain everything (6:114) (12:111). Do you still close your eyes to Allah's word?
In regard to salat, if you take two quran only camps, no ritual salat and salat explained by quran, yeah Jake may have the point. But here is the thing, he missed the other aspect, which I'm surprised that after 7 years being one he didn't hear of. Ritual salat is there, make it as you wish. Prophet thought as one way, you can come up with something else if you don't like it. The key is to establish daily prayer(s) for the remembrance of god!
According to Islamic traditions, these verses were revealed in Medina the second Hijri year (624 CE), or about 15 or 16 months after Muhammad's migration to Medina - Prior to these revelations, Muhammad and the Muslims in Medina had prayed towards Jerusalem as the qibla, the same direction as the prayer direction-the mizrah-used by the Jews of Medina.
Islamic tradition says that these verses were revealed during a prayer congregation; Muhammad and his followers immediately changed their direction from Jerusalem to Mecca in the middle of the prayer ritual. The location of this event became the Masjid al-Qiblatayn near Madina ("The Mosque of the Two Qiblas")
Salam
So far in the video, I love your style and will listen to rest of your arguments.
The intro into your argument ,perhaps an even better way of saying could be, "I will present one of the Qur'an-only approaches, and will refute that Qur'an-only approach".
I am shifting to a Qur'an-only approach and I don't even go near such pronouncements so your arguments have not addressed mine and every other Qur'an-only approach.
Invite, don't debate as opponent. Invitation won the hearts of early muslims en masse.
It is too common. I love the zeal, but imagine the benefit if you turn that zeal toward beautiful invitation, insha'Allah!
May His Grace guide us all. Ameen
Salam
Salam everyone,
I have one simple and straight forward question to those who debate and question the Quran and try to wrongly counter it with man made Sunna and Hadiths: what is the cause that created dozens of Muslim sects since the death of the prophet عليه السلام, the bloodshed between Muslims for over fourteen centuries to this very day, the failures and backwardness of the so called Muslim nations and Muslims in general?
Is it the Quran or the Sunna and Hadiths?
I am not an expert of the Sunna and Hadiths, in which I’ve already learnt and seen more than enough to make me feel ashamed of myself of being a Muslim...
To the best of my knowledge and concrete information I’ve lived and witnessed, I can tell you that the Sunna and Hadiths had been and are still imposed on Muslims by force throughout the Muslim world to this very day since Bukhari time...
The debate you’re seeing on this video would not be allowed in any Muslim country....
No one can openly oppose the Sunna and Hadiths otherwise they’d be facing the wrath of man invented fatwa if they did...
And yet the Quran states very clearly that oppression, sects and divisions amongst Muslims are forbidden. We have one book and one God and yet it’s being imposed upon us dozens of shameless other man invented books... The question is still, what has caused divisions amongst Muslims, the Quran or the Sunna and Hadiths?
And please, correct me if I am wrong on my comment. Salam!
So how do you pray if you reject the ahādīth?
@@MotorStorm66
Hadiths followers always refer to the prayers when challenged and that’s because you don’t bother reading the Quran and try to understand and follow it.
The number of prayers, the timings and how to perform them are all described in the Quran in details.
The reason we don’t find the daily ritual prayers Muslims of all sects perform today is because they are false and are revolved around the messenger pbuh and his family and friends and Abraham pbuh and his family and friends... pure shirk, that is. Whereas, prayers are supposed to be dedicated to Allah alone.
Salam✌️
Al Sam
Jake Brancatella has got it totally wrong from the moment he mention that the messenger has powers and laws of his own outside the Quran... this implies that Allah swt has shared his powers with a human being he has created.
@@McAroni52 what you’re straw-manning him. He said that the prophet got wahi from god other than the Quran.
By that logic you’re saying that the Quran is the power of god?
Al Sam
God has power over all things... the Quran is the ONLY revelation, Hadith and Sunna to humankind shared by no one.
Had God permitted the messenger to reveal his own revelation alongside the Quran, there can be no doubt that it would be a simple task for Him to just put it in a very short Sura and tell us to follow the Quran and the Prophet’s Sunna and Hadith
Jake is sharp minded ..
Listening to Rashad Khalifa, I've felt that he has tried to downplay the true Messenger of Allah as a basic human just so people would be open to accepting him as a messenger.
To be fair I believe some Quran only-ists argue that the messenger had to be followed in his lifetime in a political sense because the Quran says to follow those in authority according to this argument.
That there is a change of the quibla does not mean that Muhammad was being revealed BOTH the first and second direction of prayer- it simply means that people prayed in the direction of sacred objects BEFORE Muhammad. Muhammad simply INHERITED prayer direction from people BEFORE him. This is not the argument for revelation outside of Quran itself.
Salam, brother. Please invite Yusuf from Quran Centric Channel, a quran alone
3:31 4:64, 4:65, 49:1-3
@1:09:00 - I would say that if I lived at the Prophet's time, and he commanded me to do something, i would ask if it was revelation. If he said no, i would ask if he was commanding me or advising me.
If he said commanding me, then I know that his command would be according to Qur'an, and as a rehma-tallil-aalamin, it would be merciful, so I would have no reason to refuse.
If you then ask whether I would consider it obligatory upon myself to follow his command, then no.
Though I consider hadith like mainstream Muslims take The Gospels of Christianity. I quote from them to make a point to hadith-blind-followers and perhaps there is some truth in it.
This is one such time. There are many hadith or stories of companions being advised by the Prophet and they refused the advice.
Mufti has the most robotic laugh lmao.
I want to play devil's advocate here regarding the direction of Prayer. So it's generally understood that the Prophet Muhammad did not come with a new religion. That the Jews and the Christians also had been given revelation. In the Bible itself there is no commands to Face Jerusalem while praying. However praying toward Jerusalem is mentioned in the bible examples being the Book of Daniel chapter 6 verse 10 also 1st king chapter 8 verses 28 to 35. Basically after King Solomon builds the temple in Jerusalem he prays to God and asks that this place be an eternal Abode for the divine presence.
Basically I'm asking is it possible the prophet was never explicitly commanded to pray towards Jerusalem? Cuz we know that the profit new Jewish people prior to revelation. So isn't it possible that he had already known that the Jewish people face Jerusalem when they pray and because the prophet did not come with a new religion, and because he is told that he is a successor or inheritor for lack of a better term, of the religion of Abraham, isn't it then conceivable that the prophet had prayed toward Jerusalem because it is known that is what the people of the book had done before his own prophethood, and even before Jesus? So like did Muhammad need to be told specifically to praytowards Jerusalem in the first place?
Salaam! This was addressed in the discussion. According to most Qur'anists the messenger ONLY followed the Qur'an not previous scripture or communities. If he did it would violate this principle. So, it would be a no-no from their perspective.
@@TheMuslimMetaphysician
Is the Hadith corpus the 'un-recited revelation?'
czcams.com/video/ioisW2tY-AY/video.html
Quran the 'sunnah' of the prophet pbuh.
czcams.com/video/1uKAXVFX2Qc/video.html
The Quran Centric Approach
czcams.com/video/Csk-GwffCsE/video.html
@@TheMuslimMetaphysician Brother Edip already refuted this assertion. The Quran was revealed over the course of many years. Yes, the prophet only followed the Quran. However, until a revelation came, the prophet was free to do what he wanted. So before the revelation about the Qibla towards Mecca came, the prophet could have prayed towards Jerusalem, because the relevant ayah had not yet been revealed.
Mufti if you have time then please answer a question for me or bring a man in that can on your show,
Q.Allah always sent messengers to people in there own language so they can convey his message clearly and concisely, why did Allah all of a sudden change his system and send an Arabic speaker to the rest of the world and expect them to learn Arabic to know Allah.??? Can you not see a problem with this. Answer from a guy of your calibre would be much appreciated bro,do love your work by the way.bless
Interesting question but one that can be explained quite easily, however we cannot speak on behalf of Allah. To me it's most likely because of the way the language is constructed. For instance English wouldn't be a very good language to use because it's made up of 4 different language rolled up in one. Arabic seems to be one of the ancient language that still pure in its essence. What I am trying to say is that if another language was chosen there would be borrowed words of another language complicating the message further.
@@darth_veda bro the minute you translate the Qur'an it ain't Qur'an no more(apparently),it's just a translation. it must be read and understood in its original language to actually grasp what it's saying, that means that anyone looking to learn exactly what Qur'an says MUST learn Arabic.
When God spoke to previous nations he spoke live and direct in there own language but when it comes to us we get a messanger in the long distance past in a foreign tongue which not even the Arabs speak anymore, how does that work brother???
@@darth_veda also Arabic is not a pure tongue either brother, it has Syriac, Aramaic and Hebrew words init,it is a language descended from these 3 language.
@@mrb6828 Good points I'm just sharing my opinion. I wouldn't get hung up on translations because the Quran can be considered relatively. What I mean by that is that a layman could read a translation and grasp the gist of it and at the same time it could be read by an academic who gains a higher understanding.
@@darth_veda so the academic will have to study the Arabic in order to gain that higher understanding, exactly my point.we are ALL at the mercy of Arabs as it's there language, they decide what means what, not us.Would Allah really leave us at the mercy of such corrupt rotten people to guide us to his path in truth?
Quran 6:116 If you obey the MAJORITY of those on earth they will lead you away from GOD's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
.
Quran 12:103 And MAJORITY of the people, even if you are diligent, will not believe.
.
Quran 12:106 The MAJORITY of those who believe in GOD do not do so without committing idol worship.
.
Quran 3:110 ... from among them are the believers, but the MAJORITY are the wicked.
.
Quran 16:83 They fully recognize GOD's blessings, then deny them; MAJORITY of them are disbelievers.
.
Quran 19:73 When our revelations are recited to them, clearly, those who disbelieve say to those who believe, "Which of us is more prosperous? Which of us is in the MAJORITY?"
.
Quran 5:59 Say: "O people of the Book, do you hate us simply because we believe in God and in what was sent down to us and what was sent down before?" Alas, the MAJORITY of them are wicked.
.
Quran 9:8 ... They seek to please you with their words, but their hearts deny, and the MAJORITY of them are wicked.
.
Quran 29:63 And if you ask them: "Who sends down water from the sky, thus reviving the land after its death?" They will say: "God." Say: "Praise be to God." But MAJORITY of them do not comprehend.
.
Quran 12:38 ... That is the blessings of God over us and over the people, but MAJORITY of the people are not thankful.
.
Quran 10:60 And what will those who invent lies about God think on the Day of Resurrection? God is with great bounty to the people, but MAJORITY of them are not thankful.
.
Quran 10:36 MAJORITY of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
Didn’t Allah say he will preserve the Quran? Why He didn’t mention anything about preserving some Hearsay collected over 2 centuries after the death of the prophet?!
Either way, these discussions are totally useless because:
1. Allah said they’ll dislike when Allah alone is mentionned but they’ll believe when someone’s mentionned beside Him.
2. Allah said He puts a veil on their hearts, they can’t understand the meanings of the Quran.
May Allah guide us all and increase us in knowledge, He’s the guide (houda). Do not die unless you die a muslim! The Shahada is not a declaration of faith, look in the Quran to find out how to declare your submission to Allah….
The jews invented the talmud (apart from Tora), christians invented the new testament according to Paul and co. And « arabs » invented the sunna/hadith beside Quran… i guess it’s in human nature to invent things that relate to their human condition, see how the majority is strongly pushing to impose hadith and downlooking at those who ask to follow only the word of Allah! It’s insanity!
Yes Allah did mention Other Qibal than Masji el Haram in verse 10:87 Allah ask Musa to make there house as Qibla.
Why is it called masjid al haram , haram meaning impermissible, is this to do with the fact that pagans worshipped their?
It was a Pagan site at the time of the Prophet but this doesn't mean it was always a Pagan site. It seems to be the site first built by Adam then restored by Ibrahim and then reverted from Idolaters control by the Prophet. Anyway it doesn't mean Haram as in forbidden but instead translates to Forbidden gathering place. A place sacred where worldly things are forbidden kinda concept. Basically a place where you were forbidden to do anything but the Worship of Allah. There are markers set out around the perimeter of the Masjid where by once you cross you cannot bring through conflict etc. You leave everything at the door and then enter a place where conflict is forbidden etc.
@@darth_veda ah ok thats sound reasonable , jazakallah khayr for explaining this to me ❤🤲🏻
@@Liam-vv6zo Brother I must add I'm not a scholar and this is just my opinion I have formed over time. Don't hold what I say as authority but just as an opinion. I think the history of Masjid Al Haram is a fascinating one. One that most definitely requires a lot more investigating. I believe there to be more to Allah mentioning Masjid Al Haram and the Kaaba as 2 separate things than what orthodox Muslims would like you to believe. I'm glad they touched upon this on the podcast even if it were briefly.
@@darth_veda again jazakallah khayr for sharing your knowledge with me brother , I deeply appreciate it
Bro " haram" actually translates as" inviolable" or something not to be violated, sacred you may say, read Sura 6 verse 151, it will explain the above.bless bro
i reject hadith, and follow bible and Quran. i keep sabbath. Quran affirms bible not hadiths.
Sabbath on what day? The Quran doesn't specify what day is Jummah, since Jummah means congregation, Yawm Al Jummah means day of Congregation, you can look in any lexicon for what the word Jummah means
Too much interruptions Mufti!
Jake you like to making fictiv questions like "if you were at the prophet time and he said this amd that, would you follow" now to show you that you question is nonsen in the eyes of a Quran Muslim, let me ask you if you were at jesus time and he said pray to me im the .... would you pray to him. You see how nosense this is.
salam bro at the end of day you have to believe sincerely the quran is all you need Allah swt will guide you hadith books are man made they cant guide you
I don't think it is important to us where the previous Qibla was otherwise Allah would have told us in the Quran. it doesn't change our belief at all if we know or don't know
X5 .. That was not his point ! it was mentioned to prove his argument..
So he knew from the start that there are quran alone groups with different belief but kept on pretending like all of them are 19ers, and why did he discredit sam gerrans because of his conspiracy theories? i don't believe them either but what should have mattered is his work on the Quran.
Sam Gerrans doesn't warrant a refutation in this discussion.
The refutation was for ontological, Sam Gerrans refutation is epistomological, and his argument is easy to discredit on regards to Qibla..
We never suggested that all Qur'an alone individuals were 19ers. I was asked about 19 and commented on it. Mainly because Edip Yuksel appeared on the channel previously.
@@TheMuslimMetaphysician Exactly right. I don't know what this commenter was smoking when he saw this MindTrap to have made such a disingenous comment.
Jake, great work here, and I plan on going through your channel's content in the coming weeks iA. Be well.
@@TheMuslimMetaphysician Brother Abu layth here don't know about quran alone groups that are not 19ers and how their beliefs are entirely different but you did, It wasn't until 1 hour and 38 minutes when Sam gerrans was mentioned and you shut down the topic by bringing up his flat earth conspiracy instead of talking about his work on the Quran (like his understanding of muqatt'at). then someone asked about Joseph so you brought up non-ritualistic groups of Quran alone and again Abu layth was curious to know more and you didn't bother to share anything, which was disappointing.
@@dariusi6222 I actually did comment on both camps the ritualists and non-ritualists. Each one had their own refutation, which I gave.
Hadith relativism!
Jeke makes false arguments against monotheism. I would like to discuss the topic face-to-face with brother Jake. It is sad that he is duped into associating partners wit God by falsely attributing to God his selections from the piles of contradictory and toxic Hadiths, which is considered ZANN (conjecture). His position has multiple theological and philosophical problems. It is riddled with contradictions. His use of verses about Qibla is based on false assumptions.
Jake distorted our position regarding Sunni and Shiite population. He accused us of declaring too many people to be misguided. Well, it is the repeated assertion of the Quran and it is a PROVEN FACT. He wants to appeal to false confidence of those who follow one of the 4 mazhbs of the Sunni religion
Again, I accept his invitation to debate issue.
Edip
As your aware MUFTI ABU LAYTH believes and FOLLOWS Imam Malik, the school of madinah.
It would be nice to have a discussion / debate with Jake and mufti ABU layth.
Would you also debate MUFTI ABU LAYTH too? In a nice and friendly way.
@@aliditta7768 Of course... I did not know that Mufti was a follower of hadith....
@@edipyuksel
Yes mufti ABU layth is a follower of hadiths.
He follows Imam Malik, the school of madinah.
Mufti ABU layth is 100% sunni muslim. He believes in Quran and sunnah 100%.
He accepts and believes in hadith but follows the METHODOLOGY of imam malik when it comes to hadiths.
@@edipyuksel
Please watch this 3 minutes. Where mufti ABU layth explains the METHODOLOGY of imam malik in hadiths. Which mufti ABU layth too believes.
czcams.com/video/kbarEyxTZx0/video.html
@@c5quared626
The best to ask or debate this topic of muwatta of imam malik with MUFTI ABU LAYTH. As he specializes in the Maliki madhab.
Please do ask mufti ABU layth that question on Monday night. As I am not a scholar in the Maliki school of law.
Straw-man argument over qiblah.
Qur'anists reject everything not in the Qur'an so how did the Messenger know where to pray before qiblah was changed to masjid al Haraam, as this was revelation that is not in the Qur'an?
If it had been revelation from Allah to pray towards another qiblah, hadith says Jerusalem but philosopher Jake is not sure, then why would the Messenger be looking towards the heavens to get it changed? Was he questioning Allah's original decision? To believe it was revelation that is not in the Qur'an does not make sense, a false argument to prove a false belief.
You may say, and still be wrong, that the Messenger chose somewhere else himself and was not satisfied and asked Allah to sort it out. This still means it is not revelation and makes the first decision a human one, to err is to be human, so negates blind following of the hadith as religious dogmas to unquestionably followed.
Quranist 2, bukharian 0
Anyway, qiblah is ideology direction, not pooja prayer one.
The prophet received wahi about the direction of the First qiblah but i dont think that is important for us because even bees received wahi, mother of musa received wahi, maryan also received wahi and so do other prophets.
why dont you just trust book of Allah, He mention that quran is clear, easy to understand, DETAILED, contains laws God.
I dont understand why people be dont trust quran when Allah says its detailed and Allah knows best and He is the knower of the unseen.
whenever Allah says obey God and his Messenger (revelation), Allah uses "messenger" instead of nabi or mohammed.
If he received Wahi about the first direction.. then how many things did he get wahi about OTHER than that? And isn't it possible that Allah isn't meaning "clear", "easy to understand" "detailed" in the way that you think it means? You're thinking He's telling us Aye don't follow the hadiths attributed to the Prophet (saws) later. Don't follow it!! lol... Allah says that the Prophet "recites to them the verses, and PURIFIES them, and TEACHES them the book and the wisdom" etc. in 62:2. What do you THINK He is talking about?? He is clearly given more knowledge than we realize. The Qur'an is THEEEEE BOOK. No doubt. No one can deny that. It is ALLAH'S words. What the Prophet is teaching us as a teacher is in conjunction with the Qur'an. You really think the Prophet is just teaching one book and that's it? He is teaching *everything* that God has given him...whether in the Qur'an OR not.
Allah would literally be giving us a million page book if he was including all the details of what it means to be a Muslim. It is just not possible unless he was just giving us bullet points of everything in a list and it would just be a lot. The Qur'an is complete and detailed in what it AIMS to do... what its purpose is. What YOU guys think is the opposite. Oh it's complete and detailed.. meaning all the hadiths should be thrown outttttt lololol we don't need any of what the Prophet said because we got the Qur'annnn lololol .. Think about it for a moment. The Qur'an does its job fully. We follow the Hadiths that are correct because we believe in the Prophet. And believing and following the Prophet IS following Allah.
Qiblah is not a compass point direction to pray in but the ideology you should be following. All the verses make sense when you read them in this Qur'an based understanding rather than the hadith 'jerusalem' one.
The Qur'an states that the only hadith to follow is the hadith of Allah which is the Qur'an so this negates all arguments about qiblah, obey messenger, book and wisdom so book= Qur'an and wisdom= hadith meaning Qur'an is without wisdom!
Read three books on the Qur'an only approach:
Qur'anic Thoughts, Volume 1 in the Qur'an Unchained Series
Qur'anic Reasoning, Vol 2
The Qur'an and the Abuse of Women, vol 3
And forthcoming books
The Qur'an and the Art of War, vol 4
The Qur'anic Hadith and Sunnah, vol 5
This latter book will have all the Qur'anic verses that tell us to follow Qur'an alone, which the Messenger did, as well as all the contradictory understandings, out of context 'proofs' the Bukharians have made to continue hadith and sunnnh worship. For example whatever the messenger gives you take it = hadith and sunnah when it is clearly talking about distribution of reparations to the needy only. If you have to lie to prove your point, then something is wrong with your point.
I watched for 2.5 hours for irrefutable proofs that the Qur'an only approach was not right and all I got was someone not yet understanding what and where the 'first' Qiblah was, pie in the sky! Read the books and learn.
The problems with the Quran-only movement are manifold. The Quran clearly states that the Prophet was sent 'لتبين للناس ما نزل اليهم' (so that you may explain to the people what was revealed to them). If the Quran alone was sufficient then Allah would not have sent a Messenger to explain to the people what was revealed to them. The Quran itself is a Book of Guidance firstly, it gives commands but does not give details regarding how to fulfill those commands. Allah sent the Messenger with the Book to demonstrate how to implement the teachings of the Book. We would not know the most basic of things such as the method of prayer without the guidance of the Prophet (pbuh). And the evidences of the obligation of following the Prophet are plentiful in the Quran:
قُلْ إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللَّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللَّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ (3:31)
قُلْ أَطِيعُواْ اللَّهَ وَالرَّسُولَ (3:32)
قُلْ أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ (24:54)
وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا مِن رَّسُولٍ إِلاَّ لِيُطَاعَ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ (4:64)
@@ahmadr6891 The obligation to following and obeying the Messenger is conditional on him delivering the Message and nowhere does the Qur'an say that this means following Bukharian hadith:
5:67 O Messenger! Convey all that your Lord has revealed to you. Unless you do it, you will not have conveyed His messages at all. God will protect you from the people. God does not guide those in stubborn denial.
The Qur'an states it is the explainer of the Qur'an:
5:75 The Messiah, son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger, like other Messengers before him who passed on. And his mother was a woman of truth. Both of them were human beings who had to eat food (like all other mortals). See how clearly We explain Our verses for them, and note how they still deviate!
Prior to 3:31,32 you quoted it says that the Book, Qur'an, has been sent for Guidance, not the hadith or sunnah,
the people have to submit to the Message of Allah, not what is attributed to him by Bukhari 250 years after his death.
3:3 He is the One Who has sent down this Book to you (O Messenger) in absolute truth, confirming the authentic in what He has revealed before. He is the One Who revealed the Torah and the Gospel.
[The Qur'an confirms only the Divine origination of the Bible, but it strongly points to the extensive human touch in the Old & New Testaments. Check the following verses: 2:75, 2:78-79, 2:101, 3:70-71, 3:78, 3:186-187, 5:13, 5:41, 6:91-92, 9:31]
3:4 He has bestowed guidance upon mankind before, and now He has sent the Final Criterion between right and wrong. Those who reject the revelations of God, theirs will be a strict retribution. God Almighty’s laws of Cause and Effect carries all things and actions to their logical outcome.
3:20 If they argue with you (O Messenger), tell them, “I have submitted to God; I and those who follow me.” Say to the People of the Scripture, and to those who have no Scripture, “Would you submit (to God)?” If they submit, then they have been guided but if they turn away, then your duty is only to convey the Message. God is Seer of His servants.
3:21 Those who reject the messages of God, and wrongfully kill (degrade) the Prophets or their Mission by mixing truth with falsehood, and kill or harm the advocates of justice in the society; promise them grievous retribution.
3:31 Say, (O Messenger) “If you love God, follow me. Then God will love you and protect you from trailing behind in humanity. God is Forgiving, Merciful." [Hubb = Love = Full support = Having a common objective. Loving God = Following His commands = Serving His creation = Benefiting others. God’s love = His blessings in both lives. Zanb = Tail = Trailing behind. Ghafarah = Helmet = Protection against deterioration = Forgiveness]
3:32 Say, (O Messenger) “Obey God and the Messenger. But if they turn away, then, God does not love the deniers.” [Obeying the Messenger = Obeying God’s revelations to him = Obeying the Islamic Central Authority. 4:59]
Prior to 24:54 we have these saying that obedience to the Messenger is solely based on him giving us the Message, not Bukharian tales.
24:1 This is a Surah that We have sent down with a decree of laws. Clear commandments have been given in it for you to bear in mind.
24:34 We have revealed to you messages clearly showing the truth, and many a lesson from the generations before you. Herein is an Advisory for those who wish to live upright.
Finally, the Qur'an is fully detailed except for those who want another book to explain things and just like the Trinitarians who have no verses in the Bible that says trinity, let alone presents this concept anywhere, the Qur'an has no verse for you to interpret other verses to mean we can follow the Bukharian hadith and sunnah of the Messenger. Let me repeat, the Qur'an uses the word hadith and sunnah multiple times but NEVER FOR AUTHORISING BUKHARIANISM :
6:124 When a revelation reaches them, they say, "We will not believe until we directly receive (a revelation) like those received by God’s Messengers.” But, God knows best with whom to place His Message. Such guilty will suffer humiliation before God, and a strict retribution for their evil scheming.
6:125 Whoever follows God’s laws of guidance, He expands his chest wide open to Submission. And whoever violates God’s laws of guidance, feels his chest tight and narrowed as if he were climbing to the sky. God appoints disgrace for those who continue to reject the truth.
6:126 And this (Qur’an) is the path of your Lord, a straight path. We have detailed Our revelations for those who pay attention and take them to heart!
@@truehikma The concept of the reliability of hadith is not one and the same as the obligation of following the Prophet (pbuh). Allah clearly, explicitly affirms this in the verses I quoted above, in not one but multiple places, 'Obey God and His Messenger' (3:32), 'By your Lord! They will never achieve complete faith until they submit to your rulings O Messenger regarding the differences between them' (4:65).
Regarding 'Bukharian' hadith or hadith in general, the books of hadith that we have are merely a recording and compilation of oral narrations and also written narrations that were passed down through generations. To say that these narrations are completely unreliable would also be an attack upon the reliability of the Quran since the same people that transmitted the Quran to us also transmitted hadith to us. If Bukhari had invented all of the hadith in his book as you seem to be indicating, why did no one in that time from the millions of muslims alive not accuse him of that? Why did the scholars of his time not condemn him and write books and treatises denouncing his book? Why is it that only 1000 years later this has suddenly become an issue? What about the people living at that time, were they fools and ignoramuses?
@@ahmadr6891 Brother Ahmad, Shafi wrote a book explaining his debate with those who reject all hadith and there are other books of debate from earliest times with those who reject hadith that go against the Qur'an whilst accepting those that agree, so the 1000years later questioning is not valid. History is written by the victors, the mass destruction of Baghdad and its vast library etc, has left us with what we have today, but our criterion to judge what we believe and practice as muslims should be the Qur'an
5:49 So judge between them by what God has revealed. And do not follow their vain desires. Beware of them, lest they divert you from some of what God has revealed to you. If they turn away from the truth, be assured that God has decided to chastise them for some of their crimes. A great many people drift away from the right path.
You quoted 4:65 but did you go back to 4:61 to see what the people were supposed to be submitting to from the Messenger? No Bukharian can read the Qur'an in context as its complete truth destroys their falsehood:
4:61 When they are told, “Come to what God has revealed and come to the Messenger”, you see the hypocrites shunning you completely.
OR
4:47 O You to whom the Scripture was given! Believe in what We have now revealed, that confirms the truth in what you already have, before We efface the whole being of some of you such that they turn back in utter confusion. Or, reject you as We had rejected the Sabbath breakers. The commandment of God is always executed.
Before you jump in the Message, the Revelation, was given to the Messenger whose job was to pass this on, not anything else. From the beginning of the Surah 4 we have rules to abide by and this is what believers are invited to follow, not Bukharian hadith.
When you have verses that are interpreted as authorising the making of writings of men an obligation to follow and believe in, and no scholar of repute will say the hadith are 100% the original words of the Messenger but what is reported to be his words, then in order to justify this understanding you must be able to produce a clear verse that states the hadith and sunnah of the man, Muhammad, is allowed. I find no such verse in the Qur'an, please correct me if I am wrong, but numerous verses stating that the Messenger was to deliver the Qur'an Message only. Hence, we have no authorisation in the Qur'an for doing do.
Every verse you quote for hadith ibadat, and I have looked at each and every one of them in detail, precedes with commanding the true believers to follow the Qur'an as Guidance and the Messenger only had this to pass on to us. He left no sayings in an authentic form, his companions had none, and proof of truthfulness cannot be ascertained from 4-5 generations of dead people.
As for the same people gave us the hadith and the Qur'an, this is an absurdity that the Bukharians use to stifle questioning as to deny the church is to deny God and this is apostacy and death: it does not work on those of us who take the Qur'an as a Book for those who THINK.
The Qur'an describes itself as a Book in numerous places, written by noble scribes on parchments well preserved. It was also memorised faithfully by thousands and now millions, ONE BOOK, complete and fully detailed, uncorrupted, no contradictions, and if the same people gave us hadith and there are forged, weak, questionable, and strong hadith etc, then good memory for hadith seems to be lacking.
Please find me that verse authorising the hadith and sunnah of the man can be followed, but also reflect upon this, if you are not Qur'an alone then you have to believe that a goat is mightier than Allah as He said He would preserve and explain it, when the goat ate the stoning for adultery verse the hadith state should have been in it. REFLECT and THINK.
@@truehikma Your statement: "The Revelation was given to the Messenger whose job was to pass this on, not anything else" is ironically completely contradictory to the clear verse of the Quran: "And We revealed to you the message [i.e., the Qur’ān] that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them and that they might give thought" (16:44)
The word used in the verse "لتبين" means to clarify/explain/elucidate. If you read the Quran it is very clear that the Prophet's (phuh) role was not of a parrot who is simply a mouthpiece of Allah, rather he was chosen by Allah (as all Prophets and Messengers are) and he was made a role model for all Muslims: "The Messenger of God is an excellent model for those of you who put your hope in God and the Last Day and remember Him often" (33:21). A role model by definition is one whose example is to be followed.
There are many things in the Quran that one simply cannot comprehend and interpret by the text itself. The hadith is an indispensable source for this as it is the Prophet's statements and teachings, and the Prophet was sent to explain the teachings of the Quran. The fact that some hadith are unreliable is not a reason to throw the baby out with the bath water. Hadith scholars from the beginning have identified weak hadith and openly rejected hadith forgeries. They have also identified hadith that are impossible to refute due to their wide-spread transmission (like the Quran is). Knowing the timeline of the Quran, the vocabulary of the Quran, the details of legal rituals mentioned in the Quran are all essential to interpreting the Quran and this is simply not possible without the explanations of the Prophet, preserved by the people who heard him and then relayed to those after them, and so on.
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You can’t claim to be “Sunni” but pick and choose which ones you want to follow. That’s the fallacy.
But he’s saying that the Qur’an is the Furqan in determining which Hadiths he takes.
That's their logic.
Minute 46 : if the institution of masjid did not exist in the time of Muhammad - the simpler explanation would be - that the QURAN itself was composed AFTER Muhammad. Isn’t it?
Masjid literally means a "place of prostration," i.e. a place of congregational worship. There were numerous such masjids in the time of Prophet Muhammad.
By that he means that the word 'masjid' did not mean a building at that time ......... In those times any place of Congregational prayer was called a masjid.
I am a proud Christian and never doubted if someone convert for whatever reason and believe what he/she tells instead of guessing and doubting but this guy to me look like born Muslim. What making me doubt is his speech, accents and pronounciation of certain words. No offense so please do not take it personal attack or disrespect and please not cursing back to me.
What exactly do you mean? Are you referring to his pronunciation of Arabic? If anything, that actually presents the opposite - i.e. that he hasn't had a Muslim upbringing.
If I pronounce Arabic words properly that means that I was born Muslim? Couldn't it be that I've studied Arabic? 🤔
@@TheMuslimMetaphysician Now after watching you with AP I had to watch same video couple of times and come to the conclusion you are not a human but a monster. You views and opinions do not represent goodwill and humanity but a cult who practice cruelty and violence. SHAME ON YOU Daniel.
@@John-qo6fs My name is not Daniel and I didn't have any discussion with AP. You are a confused lunatic.
@@John-qo6fs you high bruh 😂😂
Guys forget and leaver it here and go read The Sermon of the Mount of our Lord Jesus Christ the Son of Almighty God who created and sustain us. Jesus Christ said " I am the way and the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me."
So. The son or the father created me?
On the ONTOLOGICAL way of the Quran being the wahi - the Quran does not meet the criteria of true revelation: Allah is described in dualistic way (despite the claim of the Oneness) - Allah is mixed up with the deceiver (someone who plots, deceives, substitutes and chooses “special” people) - and the angels are portrayed as demons (dragging people to hell, guarding hell). So - ontologically - the Quran can not BE the word of God - rather, it fits the criteria of false teachings (combing both truth and deception).This, of course - comes together with the epistemology: how we know that the Quran is a false teaching? Because it is ontologically impossible: One God does not act in dual way (One God does not act at all!!) - Truth does not deceive nor substitutes. That is HOW we distinguish truth from un-truth.
You need to learn a LOT about the Qur'an, and about Arabic words. Allah is never mixed up with a deceiver. If you knew Arabic, you'd not say this absurd stuff.
Dragging bad people to hell is not demon trait. It is simillar to police. Police drag bad people to prison, but police are not demon. They are doing it for justice.
God in the quran is only plotting bad people. God never deceive good people, He only deceive bad people as test for them in this world.
Your argument is really weird.
@@subilabi 👨💼
@@subilabi 🤣