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China has poured over $230B into EVs, but it could be closer to $500 billion
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- China has poured over $230B into EVs, but it could be closer to $500 billion
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The US is subsidizing the fossil fuel industry by $20 bln and farmers $30 bln a year. So over 09-23, US fossil fuel subsidies alone totaled $280 bln. Why is csis not interested in highlighting them? Go figure.....
Lets not forget MIC&MIC. The Arms industry is where much tech subsidies are spent and much more waisted.
So y doesn’t America do the same, maybe use half of ur military budget. Just image if the US spend 500 billion a yr on their EVs they would have owned the EV and solar market. All u would have lost is less war and weapons
War or threat of war is big money. Not gonna change.
And Ukraine would have lost their country, with 40 million people in slavery.
@@Longtack55 Is a $150 billion+ problem. Where do we draw the line?
@@Longtack55
Ukraine dug their own hole, with Nazis with literal swastika tats on their arms running the military. I'm an American with zero interest in arming them.
maybe they don't oppress the Russian in Ukraine and don't join NATO lol? play stupid game win stupid price.
How much are fossil fuels subsidized in the US?
According to the IMF, fossil fuel subsidies equal $662 billion annually rather than the EIA's $3.2 billion. To put it in perspective, this is comparable to the defense budget-the largest spending item Congress votes on each year.15 Sept 2023
The defense budget is 13.3 % of the total budget.
That's a BS number. It's partially some poor countries who subsidize food and energy in general so the government doesn't get overthrown. The rest is almost all IMPLIED subsidies, calculated by guessing how much disease is caused by pollution and then assigning all of that cost to fossil fuels.
In the US, there are NO fossil fuel subsidies, at least none that the CEOs, accountants, and investors are aware of.
That sounds like a global number, or they're including officially uncounted externalities in it, like healthcare and infrastructure.
@12pentaborane correct. The IMF are including the 2 externalities that you mentioned in the figure quoted. It's all lies and gross exaggeration to support the ludicrous green dream,which gullible and the useful idiots absorb.
@@skylershank9309Actually it's closer to 60% of the discretionary budget.
Amazing how much money can go towards green industry when you're not subsidizing fossil fuels or fighting stupid wars as America has done for decades.
Ukrainians don't think self-defense is "stupid."
Indeed 👏
Or have a legacy auto industry putting all their energy into stopping the transition. It also helps if there are other aims like cleaning the air in previously horrendously polluted cities.
Why do fools have to make every damn thing about America? China subsidizes fossil fuels and fights wars also.
Big Green gets way more money from government than big oil.
87% of the 'subsidies' according to that report in 2023 was just sales tax exemption (actually reduction, there's still a lot of taxes, probably more than America's).
So much bs. Reducing taxes is just not sucking it dry and that's all. If you sell millions of EVs per year, ofc you're gonna get an astronomical figure of 'subsidies' because of lower tax rates than before.
And the article says $0 rebates per vehicle in 2023 - compared to $7,500 per EV rebate in the USA, and that the total is from 2007-2023. How much did USA spend on GM alone during the financial crisis? $50 billion?
Thank you for clearing that up.
So much industry propaganda.
Or in genteel parlance … paddock pancakes.
PS 2015 Forbes article claimed the U.S. paid out $4.6 trillion for 2008 banking fiasco.
$250 billion in waived tax is pocket change in comparison!
Whats new ? Australia still gives subsidies and tax breaks to coal miners and gas companies but still charges Aussies for the privilage
You are, like many,confusing legitimate tax deductions as subsidies. The Australian taxpayer does, however, subside the renewable energy sector .
@@robertfonovic3551 So what you are saying is the Australian Gov applies the same taxes to the large mining and gas giants as any other tradie? BS mate.
if only the LNP in Australia didn't blow $500+ Billion on the Covid surplus. Well done Scotty et al.
@@Cecil-yc6mcfunny they couldn’t find money for essentials before covid but all of a sudden we had the billons of dollars to splash around recklessly.
@@robertfonovic3551 But tax breaks do subsidize an industry. Just semantics.
Thank China for That. For Clean Air Blue Sky Health Better Life.❤China 👍
Nope.
Did you know China produces twice the amount of CO2 of the US ? Google it
you don't like clean air?
@@JimmyDoyel-by2cp A.I. query : China's air pollution .
I am Chinese bot!! I like China too ❤❤
I find it incredible that other states' incompetence in making the switch to green technologies can be used against China. It is the only state that is taking this paradigm shift seriously. I wanted for many years to be able to buy a Tesla here in Brazil. Today I no longer have that desire, despite being a Tesla shareholder, because I know that Chinese cars compete on equal terms with Tesla and they are interested in the market in my country. Very different from Tesla, which never intended to compete in the market here. And if the Chinese state helps to make access to this type of technology cheaper, which will improve everyone's quality of life, I just have to thank them for that
Hopefully Brazil will stay friendly with China. I personally am not brash enough to buy a car from a communist regime.
Are EVs actually better for the Earth? Is the extraction of lithium okay? The recycling of the batteries? They contain Fluoropolymers in the membranes that are forever chemicals. Most electricity is still produced by burning fossil fuels? What do you think?
@@sullivanrachaelI think you are stupid.
Short term it’s beneficial to Brazil. Long term it will make slaves of the citizens and eventually only raw materials and food will be exported. This seems inevitable especially considering your thinking.
@@sullivanrachael
I don't know whether EVs is better for the earth. However, I do know it is easier on my pockets.
If you refer to the report published on the CSIS website, the 10% sales tax exemption was $117.7b making up 50% of the government support to the sector. As far as I know, the sales tax exemption would have been available to all car brands manufacturing EVs in China, so a VW or Tesla manufactured in China would enjoy that same sales tax exemption
Why would you quote a neocon think tank if you were trying to disseminate truthful information?
Why doesn’t EU do same rather than live in a bubble technologically further & further behind. really hope they sharply reduce tariffs or delineate a clear path for the very strong Chinese tech to be built in EU.
Its a waste of Money,we have enough jobs already!
@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nlHow utterly smug. Technological leadership trumps the 'having enough' nonsense you are talking about. But, I hope you get your way and Germany's car exports as a consequence collapse. I'll be interested to see whether you learn anything from the experience.
Thousands of agricultural workers are dealing with the aftermath of a “downpour that lasted a week” in El Salvador and other parts of Central America last month, the Inter Press Service reported. The region “suffers almost year after year from the onslaught of extreme rains or prolonged droughts”, the outlet said. One cattle rancher from El Salvador told the outlet that his herd declined from 150 to 40 in recent years due to heavy rainfall and other extremes. Meanwhile, the Guardian looked at the impact of drought on farmers in the Italian island of Sicily, where “the desert is encroaching” and rainfall has dropped by more than 40% since 2003.
@@orionbetelgeuse1937 Your response is unworthy of you. Documented evidentiary factual scientific proof: science.nasa.gov/climate-change/evidence/
lol so what it’s tax dollars of its citizens pay for to help create and industry and tens of millions of jobs domestically good for them nothing stopping others from doing the same
leroy they're communists , COL.
If that's what the Chinese government is doing then it's a great thing, all countries' governments should do that if they have the funds.
hahaha...the following is extracted:
Australia’s nuclear submarine program will cost up to $368 billion over the next three decades. The federal government plans to buy at least three American-manufactured nuclear submarines and contribute “significant additional resources” to US shipyards.
the funny thing is not the amount which is higher than all the subsidies of EVs in China for something which is almost frivolous in nature...
but the fact that Aussies money will subsidize the Americans... :)
Subsidies are everywhere. How you use it to generate a better live for your people is what matters.
US government bailout of GM and Chrysler was over 49 billion. China sales increased by a million per year after that with Buick becoming a top brand in China.
What is the evidence for this claim?
Tesla got billions from it!
How stop spreading fud
The US has given a $7500 rebate to EV’s for years. How many EV’s ever sold in the US x $7500 = ?. While they add up every incentive given in China they should publish the US number as well.
Thank you China for subsidizing green energy. These technology advancements will help all mankind by impacting the carbon in our atmosphere. Encourage your government to do the same!
Canada has $4000 if you buy EV
Public charging infrastructure in China is very good.
Is that tax credit to take market share overseas and to drive the competition out of business? No.
Do your kids go to school? Subsidized!
Western allies invested into Wars instead!
Heck in ‘Murica we spent billions on a EV Charging network that doesn’t work well enough to make EVs viable other than Tesla with their own charging network that actually works flawlessly.
According to Politico, the US paid out 81 billion to bail out its auto industries between 2008 to 2014. It also subsidizes EVs....
If a "study" or "survey" is done by a western country, you can assume that is higher than it actually is. It's not the first time they are biased against China 😂
China continues to show that they are very serious about continuing to dominate in EVs.
Private players are doing incredible work as well. CATL, BYD, Geely, SAIC, and others are playing a very important role in this growth.
Good point about the tariff being limited to Chinese EVs, not Chinese ice cars
Yes, that is despicable and entirely out of whack with the climate agreements that all of these counties have signed up to.
Protectionism and right wing libertarianism/oligarchy are having a good run in many parts of Europe at the moment but even progressive parties seem inclined towards protectionism because key European industries are thought to be in danger of losing their competitive edge over China. Still, if you present Europe with a clear example of how it is possible to achieve technological leadership in the EV industry while rapidly advancing towards internationally agreed climate objectives (by moving to low/no carbon energy generation, e.g. solar and wind, at great speed and by supporting the emergence of a strong EV industrial sector) then Europeans evidently are more likely to throw champagne in your face than to listen and learn from an upstart country like China which has indeed i) successfully built an EV industrial sector ii) while simultaneously growing solar and wind generation all across the country and iii) making good progress on climate commitments. And what is the lesson to be learned? Provide the level of credit necessary to get the job done. Support industry to get the job done. Actively discourage through penalties and other strong regulatory measues deviant behaviour that is looking to preserve rather than lay to rest old and obsolete industries. Insist on recovery of support from businesses that have been beneficiaries of state support but only after these businesses can stand on their own feet unsupported. That works unlike what Europe is doing.
Global fossil fuel subsidies run to $7tn+ per year. In comparison this is chicken feed.
In Europe up until Euro 6 we were told buy diesel because it's greener, it burns less fuel and produce less CO2. Well our NOx emissions are quite high and with all the hardware required to keep emissions in check your car become very high maintenance.
We spent 3 times that in the Ukraine adventure.
The global economy is $104 trillion with about 40% comprised of North America and the EU. Even with tariffs, that leaves about 60% of the world where Chinese EVs can be sold. Among the opportunities is India, the nation with the largest population. It, like China, has an air pollution problem. If Chinese EV makers are willing to set up plants in India, they can gain a foothold and possibly dominate in this fast growing economy.
The Chinese government is a major shareholder in industry. It therefore shares its profits. In the West, private companies make the profits, and therefore, they do their own investment.
$230B to boosting an industry which will pay dividends over time or $368B AUD which will end up being $500B AUD to buy 8 rusty submarines that might arrive in 40years.
Jai Hind. Indian labour costs are even lower than the slave labor and prison labor used in manufacturing Chinese EVs as claimed by recent German DW article. However unlike Chinese brands, our Indian EVs had not been able to realize full growth potential because of our undercapacity of green electricity due to apparent lack of government subsidies and supports to power all the new homes, factories, AI data centres etc.
How do you define subsidy? Instead of throwing numbers around, you need to be specific. Do you count the investment in solar energy that keeps electricity cheap as subsidy to EV? Do you know how much they spent on charging stations? Highway construction helps all cars, including EV. Do they count part of that as EV subsidy?
And how many billions was poured into the US military complex?
Subsidies are the way of the governments of the world to boost their most economically productive industrial sectors. Historically American industries and corporations have not been held accountable for the broader societal costs (environmental impacts, health impacts, asthma, cancer, lung disease, lifespan reduction, disasters, climate impacts) of their activities. If this were fully accounted for in economic terms (e.g., monetized), many industries would likely appear much less economically productive, reducing government motivation for subsidies. Sadly, in cases like Germany, and possibly America, subsidies from economically productive industries with less societal costs, like electric vehicles, are eliminated or under attack, while the much larger subsidies of petroleum companies and ICE vehicle manufacturers are being quietly maintained.
There may be 200 EV companies in China but they don't all produce the standard categories or street vehicles. Some produce vehicles for farm and rural use. Some produce trucks of various sizes. The range of vehicles boggles the mind.
And that's my opinion too! Clean air. Nothing is more important. I understand it, You do. Not that many others. Fossil fuels are killing us. Cancers. Greetings Sam.
much better than using the billions for Ukraine, Gaza, Yemen, Iran, Lebanon...
No, no it’s not we don’t send money we send antiqued military equipment, the money goes to buying new equipment for our military! The oil money goes directly to the oil firms and they in turn buy their favorite politicians!
China doesn’t have subsidies for there vehicles. They gave credits for buying an EV but they cut that at the end of 2022. So you don’t know what you’re talking about.that’s why Chinese EV sales have really struggled the last 2 years.
In the West, we think about businesses competing with each other on a global level. The Chinese have transformed this model by competing as a whole country against other countries. Western countries have been slow to recognise this and even slower to react to it. We still don’t understand how to compete at a national level.
i approve whatever subsidies for making less pollution
Obviously EV saw what China wanted him to see in china.
Perplexity: As of 2023, battery electric vehicles (BEVs) accounted for 25% of new car sales in China. This means that one in four new cars sold in China was a BEV.
Regarding the overall percentage of BEVs on the road in China, BEVs constituted a portion of the 6% of all cars on Chinese roads that were plug-in passenger cars at the end of 2023
In 2023, China initiated construction on 70.2 GW of new coal-power capacity, almost 20 times more than the rest of the world's 3.7 GW.
Europe and the USA could do the same thing as China, “invest heavily” in the future. But instead Saudi Arabia is saving Lucid, Tesla is going at it alone, AMZN and VW is saving Rivian and GM is the leader of the EV race globally (in name only….at least they got something from the govt even if it’s just a cool name)….and the Apple car would have been the perfect platform for govts to incentivize that R&D effort
The economy in China is collapsing and and unemployment is nearly 50% that’s why the are dumping their cars around the world and Australia doesn’t have enough charging stations around Australia we need to get our act together
How many billions of dollars the US spends on military?
The biggest reason the US is falling behind is from a lot of Americans themselves. The overwhelming feeling of entitlement and grievance from the big anti-EV crowd means that China is free to run wild with battery and motor development with only competition from individual firms like Tesla, Rivian and Lucid. As a result, EV prices remain high with the ironic assistance of keeping oil/gas prices artificially low. The EV threat has caused the oil industry to cap their own prices for fear of driving consumer demand towards EVs. Americans themselves have much to think about while China produces battery evolution after evolution while the US development is years behind.
Yep - US "conservative" ideology, far from "Making America Great Again", is exactly the inward-looking afraid-of-change mindset that is responsible for US decline. They have not just lost world leadership - they have wilfully given it up!
prc is a 'managed' state. in principle, the management is charged with providing a decent life for its members. lately, the central committee has supported xjp, believing he is the best manager prc has available.
this underlying principle may result in subsidizing car production. but prc had an air quality problem, and e-cars have contributed to the cure.
that can't happen in a 'capitalist' nation.
if you buy a Chinese EV, that means China pays part of the cost.
good for Australia. we don't have an EV industry. we should replace our ICE fleet whilst the going is good
So, after Sam insisted for years that Chinese auto makers did NOT receive subsidies (they were just naturally superior to the rest of the world), he finally admits it, and says everyone else should just do the same.
Better giving Money away to every Person that doesnt Drive a car!
they don't just give money to drive down prices, the set up economic environment that is conducive for EV development, which US, especially California did to a certain degree. So the question is based on what people can draw the line that certain level of subsidies is ok while other doesn't? skin color? lol
@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nlridiculous comment. That would achieve zero long-term.
Sanctions and bailouts are a kind of gov. support as well.
Imagine if China is selling these electric vehicles so that they can EMP us.
All the US has to do is invest one year of its military spending on EV and they will win !
In Australia one should just live in suburbs. Maybe 20 to 30km from city, ideal to live.
Who cares if subsidies are unfair? If the Chinese can outcompete the US by subsidizing EVs, good! (As if the US ever had a problem subsidizing big auto and oil. 🙄)
You just moved to the coal centre of NSW from the cleaners state of Victoria. Pollution from cars is nowhere near as bad as smoking, vapping, drinking , fast food & drugs. If we could cut heavy diesel consumption in trucks & trains, instead of cars, this would be a better solution.
A lot of countries are already starting to tariff on china goods cause they don’t wanna lost their own industries
American raw rugged individualism may have won the wild frontier but on a planet of 8 billion people a degree of some form of collectivism will inevitably prevail. Joseph McCarthy may not have agreed but strangely, Adam Smith might have. Tell the military industrial complex.
Thank you Chinese Government for investing so heavily in green energy. Instead of tariffs a better approach would be to do the same - subsidise their struggling green energy companies. Save the planet and whatnot. If China hadn't done it their country would be a toxic wasteland now (as you say).
🔌🔌Recently, I met with utility personnel in Phoenix, Arizona, who are promoting Green Energy. They commented that cars have little effect on the pollution in Maricopa County. Most of it comes from the airport and industry. Just look at China. Their conversion to EVs has yet to improve their air quality.
I wish someone would report on the news how much converting to EVs in China has cleaned up their air. Our local utility tells me that NG power plants are the way to go instead of solar and wind.
🔌🔌
Big "private" money is still government money in China.
Given all these incentives to domestic Chinese EV makers, Tesla's market share in China is all the more remarkable. And in the U.S., Tesla has long since paid back the loans it got early on, and today is battling various government agencies that seem intent on taking it down for some reason.
Actually the bulk of the subsidies and support are given to all companies manufacturing in China
The Chinese government also shut down factories for the 2008 Olympics.
I've been waiting for people to start saying subsidies are ok, after all...
I'll believe in clean air in China when I see 3yr old air compared to a current video
Oh FFS. I've traveled to Shanghai several times in the past thirty years. The air quality on my visit last year was UNBELIEVABLY better than it was than when I first went there. Until the last few years you could never see a blue sky in Shanghai - you can now. Sorry, David Lloyd, but your comment is just ignorant prejudice.
Us subsidi to EV system about 1.1 trillion USD. Watch congress hearing.. they build 2 charging station With 7 billion budget.
The government's going to lose money banks ect kind of like the JPY Japan's currency
Its like CSIRO really, the government paid for the research and the industry make the products.
The CSIRO is now just a left-wing stooge.
Will be a trillion, if needed.
Electric cars are great but we should do less unnecessary travels. Use less energy and natural resources overall, not justifying more environmental pollution and impact to a cleaner propulsion system.
A. I. Query : China's Air Pollution . WOW , look at the images too !
Not to worry. EV owners will soon realise the impracticality, inconvenience and the exorbitant life cycle cost of EVs.
👍👍
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Health people keep working I like Chinese curry
Tariffs on China?
💀German Auto💀
How much do legacy auto and oil industry get in subsidies in Europe and USA, say in last ten years. ?
oh um er hm,er, um, oh look over there.
Remember it's okay for the u s to give over one hundred billion dollars to defense companies for war but you can't Let another country help their car industry.For the electric vehicles we all need
Over supply in ev
this makes Tesla admire even more, so success with little to no subsidy
Tesla is subsided ( factory, all their parts are made in china) by Chinese government, so that the western countries proudly claim glory for its success
I hope Trump win and impose a total sanction on Chinese EV
It’s still the central government that provides the financial subsidies/support.
Do I guess you are promoting a central communist run economy. I believe that central government pennant dictates of the economy led to the collapse of the USSR.
CPC should have collapsed now by your logic.
@@kongwee1978 not really it’s all fiat money. Not backed by anything of substance. Do they can print and give because when the government is your biggest backer they are controlling whether directly r indirectly the means of production. When the government can and does dictate what is built and then provided the majority of backing through free land or subsidies of the resources they create an unfair balance in competition.
Thanks Sam for this video, it's what I've been asking for the last few weeks. I'm not an expert in China but as a former Air Force intel guy I know about Russian and Chinese dictatorships and their motivations. What do you think the motivation is for the CCP to be doing this? To clean up the air in China or as part of an overall strategy of taking over the world economically? The economy is what funds the military. Weaken Western economies and help China's, what happens? EV's are just one of many tools for doing that.
For Clean Air China MAKE MORE CO2 THAN ANY WHERE
China plant more trees than any country. Trees absorb CO2 and give out oxygen.
Hello mate
So it's time for tariffs on Chinese cars. The higher the better.
why? wouldn't it be simpler to just walk away, simply ban the cars outright problems solved, why cry over somebody elses EV industries, stop being a sore loser! Pathetic.
Biden already did 100% tariff on electric cars, not on Buick and Lincoln gas cars!
China's economy is in ruins - Local debt out of control 7/3/24 Shyna Uncensored .
And China's GDP has dropped to 5.3 % ,food prices have dropped 4 percent...how horrible 😅😅😅
@@robertfonovic3551 Where do you go for your brain washing ?
It is a yes according to the western demor media
@@eddiechau7122 thank you Chinese person.
Socialism……..well it seems to work, in some cases.
I have been in Beijing. The air quality is just deadly. I don't think EV's can fix this.
Regarding subsidies. I'm also against them.
But, lets begin with the $US 9.000.000.000.000 oil subsidies.
(International Monetary Fund).
And, China stole the LFP battery patents. So, I can't see that the west can't just use the Chinese patents.
The tariffs is not about those subsidies. This is about the war in Ukraine. China is supporting Russia, and genocide.
There are more Ukrainian fleeing to Russia than the west while Putin was charged with moving away children from combat zone, what happen in Gaza is 100% genocide.
Also the reason why China switch to EV is to stop paying those oil subsidy.
And if those LFP are rightfully yours, then use it. Its weird when you said they are stealing from you but you cant use it.
You are brainwashed by propaganda but you are not aware!
fake, that was 10 years ago, noe air in china is fine
Genocide is only when white people die ? You don't have value for other human lives and still try to project yourself as a champion of human rights.
Also provide the source for your claim that China stole LFP battery patents.
The truth is that you don't want to accept that China is ahead of the west in battery tech and some other areas .
Sooner or later china will throw usa from his no 1 position in every field
How are non-Chinese private car makers to compete with this? These are government funded cars, nothing else. US is doing the right thing with 100% tax, EU is still far too low.
But the good thing is that EV sales are stagnating anyway, they have built up an enormous overcapacity for a niche market (outside of China) and most of the Chinese car makers will go bankrupt. The Chinese market itself will be saturated soon too. And they are selling the cars for a huge loss anyway, despite all the subsidies. Pure madness...
Until you learn how much they spend to subsidize fossil fuel.
Some people would buy those cars even after 100% tax because they are still cheaper with better or equal performance to other options.
Nobody stops the USA to fund their companies but they want to spend their money on wars so what others can do.
Ultimately, all such arguments are based on the belief that CO2-caused climate change will impose no costs because it doesn't exist. In reality, as Covid and 9/11 proved, our socioeconomic systems are fantastically vunerable to changes and small acts. Just for one tiny example, insurance companies' expenses are skyrocketing and if you deny climate change, you have no explanation for how to stop it. Real estate is already a bubble everywhere; if people will have to relocate inland everyone will be fighting for every square inch there. The entire state of Florida relies on water wells which will be contaminated with salt water long before the cities drown.
These are all costs, but we've normalized them out of existence so that they won't be compared to the cost of subsidized decarbonization.
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14.5K
EV adoption rate depends on how serious your country with their renewable energy policy.
Massive hydroelectric energy
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