The Rising Damp Myth Exposed? Roger's Rant!
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 22. 08. 2024
- Roger is back on to rising damp and asks the question...
... is rising damp a myth?
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#RisingDamp #Damp #MythBusting
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Rising Damp is not a myth. I've seen a few episodes and thought Leonard Rossiter was absolutely fantastic.
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Very funny, I wished I had thought of that. :-))))
@Anglo Saxon Motherland. Detectorists.
Haha!
@@manfromdelmonty303 Always brighten up a dull day with a laugh
It isn't that it doesn't exist it is more that it is often misdiagnosed
Quite a balanced view Roger. Most older housing stock remaining in London was built without damp-proof courses or cavity walls and in the main stays remarkably dry. But ground levels have risen after various owners lay yet another layer of paving over old, until outside paving is level with inside floors. Walls are rendered and painted instead of being left to breathe. Chimneys blocked up and plastic windows installed. Overoccupation of ever decreasing sized properties then pours water vapour into what has effectively become a plastic bag. Cooking on gas releases even more water vapour. Result is condensation, as you described so well, on the colder surfaces. The rising damp myth a book by Jeff Howell the building science lecturer does put a big hole in the damp proofing industry but the RICS are equally to blame for allowing their surveyors to hide behind their damp meters most of whom have no idea of their serious limitations.
I think the problem was with the rising damp industry is they were a lot of scam artists that attributed all damp as rising damp and charged thousands to solve a problem that wasn't there. It was condensation or penetrating damp, especially in old building where the outside ground level had built up above the hard brick course or above vents.
I agree with the fact that people misdiagnosed to make a quick buck but to go from there to saying that rising damp is a myth is nonsense.
@@SkillBuilder There are people that go too far on both sides, those that believe moisture cannot go up a wall under any circumstances and those that believe it can wick up a brick or even a stone. And both sides are as stuck in their ways as flat earth folk are. All I know is I took all the cement pointing off my wet 3ft thick sandstone wall (built 1685) and water came out of it for a week. Lime pointed it and it's bone dry inside and out now, BUT ... I reckon it needs the log burner in the hearth to keep it that way.
@@phoenixdundee Exactly what he says, water is no longer trapped and evaporates into your house but it still goes up the wall. Question is what happens on the inside? I suppose more ventilation and higher heating costs?
@@SkillBuilder In my view Rising damp its not a myth its a Fact ,
just ask any flat owner who has a basement flat for a while he can comfirm and tell storys :)
not pleasent ones , been working with surveyors and flat owners for last 12 years around London and on basement flat happens a lot .
Im not a builder but i was wroking close with contractors and surveyors from start until the project end can say its not a myth .
All the best Roger
@@porter761 I agree its real, but in a basment it would be penetrating damp.
I have a customer with a small mould issue, no trickle vents, clothes dried on radiators , north facing gable with cracked render, etc etc. Gave the customer some advice, but he opted for getting a plasterer in who hacked off the first metre and then reinstated it, a practice synonymous with rising damp. Only issue is itâs a second floor flat!
What's the gable built with? Stone or brick/block? And is it cement render? If its stone with cement render, then that's your problem right there.
I've seen damp getting through about 40cm of wall laterally when the outside render was cracked, and these were very small/hairline cracks. The wind also helps drive it in I think.
Dehumidifier required.
@@stonemasonlew9349 itâs a solid brick built gable with a cement render. The render is cracked and north facing. My point was that the damp would have had to jump from the ground floor onto the second floor therefore making the plaster/render hack off a waste of time!
@@thesunreport agreed, the 3 story Victorian building is on the coast, so driving rain is definitely an issue. I had suggested repairing the cracks in the render and then coating with storm guard or a similar product, more adequate ventilation, the cessation of clothes being dried on rads and so on and so on. The decision to hack off and re render/ plaster is a waste of time as Iâve never known rising damp to jump from a ground floor to a second floor!
The source of damp is where the confusion comes in. A lot of time it's poor ventilation or penetration.
I don't think anyone really believes that rising damp is a myth do they? It's just that 90% of damp cases are not rising damp. I've even seen cases where there is a perfectly good original slate damp proof course and some damp roof cowboy has drilled holes all above it to 'treat'. And of course it didn't fix the issue because it was a high ground level and breathability issue
Exactly, easy things first. Use your eyes! :)
Well said Tom , Bisby thinks weâre all idiots and by shouting thinks his opinion is always right.
British terminology : rising damp
Rest of world and science : capillary action (or wicking)
So true mate. Only trapped moisture caused by natures very own capillary action. Even trees have it .....ooops - HE said that!
Ah Venice, a place where the rising damp is so bad, they use gondolas for transport on it.
As a Building Surveyor, I don't think I've ever met any qualified surveyors who would argue that rising damp doesn't exist at all, just lots who (I would say rightly) believe that the cause of the damp is usually more likely to be something else.... i.e penetrating damp from the exterior, raised exterior ground levels, poor ventilation of underfloor voids, poor choice of plaster/render material, condensation etc etc.
The chemical DPC industry is still a bit of a racket, in my view. I have never specified one, though I would never rule it out completely, i'd just want to try lots of other things first!
Some of the confusion comes, I believe from some research which was done some years ago at London South Bank University, where they were not able to recreate rising damp in lab conditions. Clearly, lab conditions are not necessarily indicative of the real world, and I took the outcome of the research to be that water moving upwards via capillary action is simply a lot less common than some people think.
I wish people would replace the words "RIsing Damp" with "TRAPPED MOISTURE". They their brains would be focussed a little better. Capillary action is real. Solid walled buildings are real. Moisture travels from the ground to escape outwards UNLESS its trapped by cements /plasters etc etc THis guy has done himself no favoure. Just comes across as a rather thick, ranting builder! The sort that we earn good money from undoing all their non-working solutions.
If rising damp does not exist, which do modern regulations specify a pvc membrane for cavity wall brickwork.
@ Numero uno: Maybe because it is necessary to have a DPC ...It is a modern way of building using cement and modern brick, for speed and cost etc (but donât forget all the houses (cavity) that have their internal and external walls âconnectedâ by poor workmanship (cement droppings bridging etc) and what do you get apart from huge repair bills ? Damp walls or wet walls STILL ! (Even with a DPC !) Some would say rising damp ! Then presumably charge a fortune to âwaterproofâ inside or outside and or damp injections etc etc further reducing evaporation...You have to be careful ..Cement is a huge polluter of CO2..global warming ! many old buildings were fine and dry until modern materials (cement) were used to repair..leading to âso called Rising Damp â...Majority of housing stock does not have cavity walls traditionally, so you need to head back to ventilation humidity breathability for those...
Cavity walls a fine modern initiative, (except for the pollution/warming etc) and still suffer condensation ! SO...maybe extra jumper in winter..Canât have yr cake and eat it !? 3:29
There is no confusion and you donât need a lab to recreate rising damp. Simply put a brick in 5mm of water and leave it there. You will physically see it rising!!!!
Flat earthers!
I think youâve missed the point.
Moisture will only wick up a porous material. If you put an engineering brick in a bucket of water the exposed bit will stay dry as opposed to a thermalite block which the water will travel up. Same story with mortar, Portland cement is pretty much waterproof.
As you say, almost any structure built in the last 200 years has a DPC whether slate or plastic.
Iâve yet to come across a building that was actually suffering from riding damp. Itâs always been raised ground levels outside, poor drainage/gutters, leaking pipes etc, drying washing inside, modern showers, leaking roofs.
Most of it can be solved by simple stuff like lowering ground levels. Dealing with rain water ventilation etc.
So in a way Iâd agree rising damp is a myth.
The products like dry rods, injection creams, galvanic system etc are 100% snake oil.
I bought a terraced house in 1985 that was 100 years old. Good gutters, roof, drainage. All walls in the downstairs rooms were damp up to about a metre except for the extension that had a dpc. Hacked all the plaster off, damp course injected, replastered. Damp was back within a year. All houses in the row were the same, but not really a wet area and were at the top of a hill. I reckon it was the mortar mix that had been used, but rising damp does exist.
@@OggyGTA I didnât say it didnât exist, I said Iâd never actually seen it. You didnât he standard builder fix that just masks the problem for a few years, thatâs why our damp came back.
Britainâs expert and guru on damp
In buildings is Pete at Heritage House Building and Restoration. Heâs an RICS conservation surveyor. I recommend reading their website and watching the videos. Itâs eye-opening and very informative. He should be given an award for his relentless exposure of unnecessary remedial works and the real causes of damp. Actually, he doesnât really believe in rising damp!
And incidentally, why show Venice as proof of rising damp? Itâs built on water! Most British Homes at worst, would sit on slightly damp soil for part of the year.
Agree with what he says ,roger is having a rant
Just to be clear. Pete is not an RICS accredited conservation surveyor and I hope he is not claiming that. He doesn't hold any notable UK professional construction qualifications and his views are not particularly expert or revealing. Misdiagnosis and application of inappropriate remedies by unqualified people in the damp and conservation sector is by far the most common problem leading to manifest damp penetration. Venice is a classic example of the physics of how water can move through building materials including rising from below and has been a factor known of for centuries.
In the distance I can hear Peter Ward exploding.
Buildings need to breath because of the condensation caused by people living in it. Trapped condensation - trapped by modern "damp proofing" methods. It's almost always never actual rising damp, that's the reason given for expensive remediation work.
Yes!
Now sure whare you live but are you saying people generate more water than the English weather?
As a building surveyor for over 40 years I did 15 inspections a day for 4 days a week 1 day writing reports. Of those average 15 inspections three quarters would be to inspect rising damp lets say 10 inspections for rising damp of those inspections only 1% would be water penetration. The test used is one that is accepted by the courts or arbiter A discreet hole is bored in the affending section of wall and the colour of the dust is registered ie if the dust becomes lighter it is condensation. If the dost becomes darker it is water penetration. If it went darker it is water penetration. The then would be weighed and then subjected to a gas pressure vacuum and the dust re weighed establishing a penetration ratio the water is tested 1st for chlorine if present it is domestic water, then for glycerene which shows it is from a leaking central heating system then it is tested for traces of effluent which would indicate a broken drain. We are advised not to use the term rising damp as this implies water traveling vertically. Water is very heavy and for it to go vertical it must be pumped. There is an argument it can be drawn by capillary attraction so is it through the brick is the brick a soft porus brick or is it travelling through the joints? At Building college built dwarf walls using different bricks bult in galvanised trays never observed water travelling upwards except when more water was put in the tray. Seen plenty of water penetration usually poor cavity trays, parapet walls. Most of my work was by the Thames some of the structures 2, 3 maybe 4 hundred years old Sam Pepys office at the old Deptford Navel yard comes to mind, no damp course, snuff dry. Of Course the well built survives the dross goes into history. I think water penetration is a better word Rising Damp is a television programme. Good rant though.
15 inspections a day !!!! How long did it take to do an inspection?
@@jeffhenderson9595 If the inspection is condensation and in most cases it is observed instantly it is down to life style they would receive a very comprehensive booklet or I would arrange one in what ever language they required. As it is social housing the visits would be selected close together. We tried to work an 8 hour day which gives 1/2 an hour per visit though allegedly we were on flexi time. We were issued with mobile phones so we could inform the resident how we were doing. The call center only confirmed am or pm appointments. As Local Authority employees over a certain grade we were expected to attend evening meetings some council meetings. some tenants asociation meetings sometime because the resident worked shifts an evening visit was arranged. The call center would arrange the appointments and log the description as stated by the resident which would be rising damp
@@sunriseinisaan Imagine being the person who had to group together the appointment addresses and then get on the phone to arrange for 15 people to be at home on the same day, who have to go to work, take and collect the kids from school etc.etc. - no easy task that one.
But wait - now do it to fill up 4 days a week for 40 years!!!
Being an air traffic controller at Heathrow would be relaxing after that job!
Blocked gutters are another major cause of damp in homes
Nah. People always say that
Peter Ward will have a fit
@@ian_s7481 ..lol, yes. I love Peters videos although he hasn't done much lately.
I've renovated a few houses now and had to remove bricks behind skirting to access the cavity to scrape out cement snots. Worse on houses built 100 years ago with lime as some of the lime crumbles down over time. I then attatach a length of waste pipe to a Henry vacume cleaner and suck it all out.
Bought my house (1930âs three bed terrace) about 9 years ago.
Was told by surveyor that it had rising damp (rotten floors, damp walls ect)
On closer inspection the exterior ground levels had risen above the damp proof course
Took ground levels back down fixed all damage caused problem solved đ
So the surveryone was rihgt to say it had rising damp but did not show the cause. This is often the problemm they simply say to get it diagnosed which often means another surveryor/salesman. That is the disconnect.
I'm a rocket scientist, and I've been to space and I can tell you rising damp is a myth. It's actually aliens pissing against your house at night... and the earth it flat đ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Really what most of the people saying rising damp doesn't exist mean that it isn't the main cause. Most people know that when you get called out to a damp issue if it isn't a basement it's going to be landscapers that just completely ignore the dpc and air bricks (yes the brickies point of veiw đ). And if it isn't that there's leaking guttering or drain. But rising damp actually being the main issue isn't it most of the time, yes the injection damp proofing is probably going to be the most cost effective way after you've spent a few k on getting your new paving.
Pizza+beer+Roger rant=ultimate evening
Knowledge is king, and Roger have more than his fair share of it bless him . The first house I ever bought I did a silicone injection system , which I did my self , it tuck me about 3 days to complete . At the time a lot of companies would have done it in half a day , because they didnât allow enough time for the silicone to penetrate into the bricks . So it was a totally waste of time , knowing this a pumped as much as I could in till I saw it coming back out of the bricks and mortar . Well that was some 40 years ago now so it would be interesting to see if my efforts payed off in the long run . Thanks again Roger for your tieless work in bringing this to everyoneâs attention, because silly statements like your describing could cause a lot of problems for people. Best wishes and kind regards as always đđđđ
I live in a Georgian house with rising damp Iâve dry walled it with 25 mm gap between the plaster and plaster board and insulation board no cement use lime make it myself yellow sand lime mix it like butter leave it for two days in a bucket works lovely
Interesting rant on Rising Damp.
You are right, on many levels, including that condensation is commonly misdiagnosed as rising damp.
And that a DPC is useful for stopping water rising-up a porous brick.
What many people donât understand is:
1. Rising Damp is defined as the rise of moisture from groundwater.
2. Groundwater being water under the water table.
3. Rainwater in contact with a wall may result in rising damp like symptoms but unlike groundwater, rainwater in soil, can and should be removed through improved drainage.
4. The rise from rainwater in soil is considerably smaller than from rising damp as the soil is unsaturated and therefore water will mainly be drawn down, not up.
5. Like rainwater and groundwater, water from any source can be absorbed up a porous brick, including condensation of a solid floor.
6. Condensation within a wall causes heat loss increasing the risk of condensation. Gravity drawn moisture down and the base of a wall is normally the coldest part of a wall. So condensation is most commonly found at the base of a wall. It expands upwards as condensation increases, for that reason condensation in a wall often appears to rise, leading to condensation commonly being misdiagnosed as rising damp.
7. Chemicals and damp proofers slurry may hide condensation or water from defective gutters etc. for a while, but unless the root cause is dealt with, the moisture will eventually show through.
Interestingly no wall suffering from rising damp has been preserved so that it can be studied and learned from.
There was an attempt a few years ago, but the wall dried out when it was covered.
I agree with the points you make but I would suggest that the University of Bolgna has many examples of rising damp and carries out trials in many historic buildings
Sorry, but you have some serious misunderstandings regarding the movement of water.
If it was so prevalent to move up then we wouldn't have rivers, lakes, seas, or oceans: water will do everything it can to go down.
The only time it moves up is through capillary action or being sucked/pushed up. In trees it certainly does not just use capillary action, it requires evaporation to suck it up.
The vast majority of damp in homes comes either from condensation, or other leaks in the structure, whether guttering/drainpipes, water supply pipes, window/door fitting, compromised cavities, or simply ground level higher than the building floor.
Given the normal nature of a home, if everything else was equal, it would stay dry even without a DPC owing to the thermal gradient. Seeing evidence of damp does not mean that the first thing you need to do is get your walls injected!
What a reasoned argument you give Roger, scientific, balanced & not biased or ranting in any way. BTW: a) how much damp do the Dutch suffer? b) Who says damp cannot rise? it can but not in masonry, it is when the cement is bridged by porus materials such as plaster or a render which creates a capilliary gap..
"Rising Dampness" is a simple process called capillarity.
I wish it were a little more simple to spell....
@@ricos1497Corect.
It can be but it's more simple than that. The simple answer is what Rodger said, we live on the earth that is wet and cold, the air temperature is higher than the groung temperature so the moisture rises. Ventilate and most of the problem is solved.
I know it's expensive to heat and ventilate at the same time, so send your problem to the government because they are the ones who are taxing you and ripping you off with fuel prices. I'm in Bulgaria and it costs me ÂŁ200 to heat my house for the winter and thats 24/7 with wood burners. A normal winter is 5 months long with temp's down to - 20.
Rodger mentioned lime mortar and my house is held together with lime mortar and no mould anywhere.
So poorly informed
Been to a few jobs (usually let properties) where they've claimed it was damp all of the time. Turned out the first metre of roof felt was knackered and rain was trickling down the cavity.
On the subject of DPCs you have to understand they date back to a time when buildings were put up using hand mixed porous lime mortar and a huge variety of vernacular materials of varying properties and quality. They make little sense in modern buildings built using OPC and hard fired bricks, yet modern builders seem to be obsessed with them. There is a long standing idea that British houses are built in swamps with only a thin strip of plastic between warm dry comfort and crumbling soggy walls. If the ground is wet then people need to find out why and not just squirt some chemicals into the walls. With damp you have to fix the cause and not the symptom.
I agree completely, problem is when these companies turn up and sell you a damp proof system after using a silly meter on your walls. These damp proof systems cost thousands and in reality you probably just need to redecorate or open a window in the majority of cases, my house being one of them.
We purchased a house that our surveyor said needed a full damp proof system installed, cost the previous owner 14k before we could buy it. It now has a stupid layer of concrete on the lower half of the walls that does absolutely nothing other than potentially caus damp issues itself.
After spending 3 years renovating the house and seeing the condition of the brickwork, it has no signs of damp anywhere, bricks are bone dry.
In this country also, mortgage companies listen to surveyors whenever damp is mentioned and demand a damp proof system be installed before it can be sold. The industry is all wrong and needs sorting out, sooner rather than later.
@ matte : I agree whole heartedly (as I fell foul of that system many years back-and it too failed after a few short years..) Old stone wall etc BUT concreted and DPC floating floor done many moons ago unfortunately 3:38 .. So soil damp rising still rising through walls causing salt damage etc.. Nobody living there now therefore cold ish and needs time to dry out and breathe plus normal heating ..Hopefully it will get better...But those damn Floors ..too expensive to renew with limecrete breathing type floor and physically beyond me now..
I still don't believe in rising damp. The way Roger talks you'd expect water to be pouring from the top of every wall. All the guff about trees and clouds doesn't help. I'm pretty sure trees don't suffer rising damp or rely on capillary action to get water 20 metres in the air. Show us some scientific evidence, there must be some surely?
Obviously damp is an issue in lots of buildings but I don't believe it's caused by a static issue of water soaking up a wall. I think it is almost always more complicated than that. Most problems are probably caused by bad practice and poor materials.
As you rightly say, in older buildings, clear out the cavities where snotts over the years have fallen and built up over the DPC level, especially where lime mortar was used in construction, and make sure that exterior ground levels are 6" below DPC, old buildings need to breathe!
Fix a cupboard to a wall and watch the rising damp ruin it.
I was dying for the toilet, but I saw this video and had to watch it. I'm now experiencing my own rising damp issue.
Falling damp, you mean.
A well known local damp proof company recently hacked off and rendered to 1.8 metres when thirty years ago it was 900mm, fifteen years ago Is was 1200mm. This tells me that the capillary action is simply climbing further with each increase. Pointless. Somebody needs to tell them that trees can draw water to over 100 feet just through capillary action so what they are doing is just fighting a losing battle.
Great video Roger, I'm a Chartered Structural Engineer and you were able to sum up the issues at hand here in a very concise way.
Our house is 1860, solid walls, slate damp course. No damp.
The slate damp proof course is doing its job. No surprise there
We have a copper coil. When we bought our house the surveyor said we had damp, with their stick indicator, the company who put in the coil and guaranteed it said nope. 30years later we have no problems with damp
And the answer is 'Yes!' This is why you don't see sodden saturated bricks on canal bridges!!! The only Rising Damp I have ever seen is the comedy starring the late, great Leonard Rossiter :).
Youâre 100% wrong Danny. I work on a lot of Victorian buildings and I see it on a regular basis.
Edit: ok, I watched the rest of the vid.
@@gdfggggg I think you will find it is very rarely the dpc that is at fault though, nearly always the drains or the dpc has been bridged by the patio.
@@dannymurphy1779 most buildings with damp issues don't even have a DPC and that's the problem. The implementation of modern building methods on old buildings is creating damp.
the best way to prove damp rises is to use a length of twine draped over something with the bottom dipped into a glass of water leave for two to three hours and viola the full length of twine is soaked
For many reasons Lime mortar still has its virtues and must always be considered when working on lime buildings today, Many a project has gone wrong when repairing or repointing period lime built properties with Portland cement,the two are not comparable. It went out of mainstream use when Portland arrived and proved more effective for all year use and less know how needed. Also and little know another contributory factor was the first WW, Portland was just beginning to overtake lime in itâs use and the tradesmen who knew this art went to war and didnât return accelerating the demise of lime. Itâs only recently we have recognised its value and place and thanks to a small dogged band of devotees have brought this wonderful stuff back into use. Roger! you mention about lime mixing hazards but Portland cement is almost as bad when mixing on a breezy day.
I have worked with lime for years but it is not stocked by merchants and it slows the job down no end.
@@SkillBuilder depends where you live Roger, in modern suburbia thereâs little point in merchants bothering to stock it. Here in East Anglia thereâs a very large period housing stock and merchants sell it alongside Portland. Lime buildings have been around for thousands of years, The Romans used it and in many cases these buildings still in tact, which wonât be the case for Portland build. Of course lime doesnât sit well with the modern desire to speed everything up and you canât or mustnât use it in winter conditions which severely restrict its use to more specialised construction and repair. Iâve a two hundred year old lime solid wall house and putting an extension up in lime. I love everything about lime from breathability, movement and even acoustics with internal lime plastering.
You can see the damp coarse working from day one the bricks under the plastic are wet the ones above are dry ...... Mike drop
Rising damp is very common in Ghana and people are just tiling thinking it's solving the problem. Eventually it rises above the tiling level to a point beyond repair. The blocks here aren't very good either.
đđđ
Good rant
Saw you the other day at selco
Not gonna lie i was star struck
Had to do a double take
Couldnt get my words out
đ
Which selco
Hi Lee
Rising damp exists but almost 70% is misdiagnosed as such just to con people to have dry wall rods put in or liquid course , instead of looking for the real cause which is render or wrong mortar used in old houses , stick a modern brick in water make sure itâs perfectly dry and see how long it takes water to get to the top then buy one of those pathetic dry rods put it in the brick and see what difference then
I'm only 1.5 minutes into your vid Rodger and already I know that you are correct. I'm from England and now live in the balkans, Bulgaria. It's a range of mountains that weave through europe like a snake.
I have a two storey house, downstairs is natural stone and upstairs is homemade or village made brick.
I am surrounded by mountains and I can watch the clouds being made and rising from the earth from my window, when this happens the temperature drops in my house and I can feel the damp coming up from the earth.
I live upstairs only, downstairs is great for storing food and making wine, it has a temperature that is more stable. In the summer it can reach 42c upstairs and remain 25 downstairs.
I would say that rising damp is natural, it's the mold that's unnatural because of the lack of ventilation.
always keep your home ventilated and most of the problems will disappear.
Thanks Rodger.
Excelland and justified rant Roger ! Damp in buildings is a complex issue and like you say many people are not aware of why it is happening. Most people don't have a clue about how much water is released into the air inside the building each day. Moisture given off by the people living in the building, washing drying, showers, baths etc. Gallons of water floating about in the air which In the hemetically sealed buildings we have to day has got to go somewhere. There's little to no ventilation to the outside to carry it out. It will find cold spots in the building and condense and then black mold will eventually appear and the panic sets in then ! And yes, rising damp does occur - but to different amounts in different materials. Semi-engineering bricks an fresh mortar are usually pretty good at preventing rising damp as are dense blocks. But once the building gets older the mortar starts to break down and that is when it loses its water resistance and damp will start to travel up the mortar joints. The amount of times I have seen perfectly good blue bricks in old buildings that have been drilled into and chemical injection supposedly injectedinto them !! Totally ignoring the cause of the problem which is the mortar in the joints that's failed..
I own an Edwardian house with rising damp... where idiots filled a conduit channel with bonding you could see water stains tracking up the wall. đĄ
bba certificate so it does work⊠yes like grenfel cladding , cavity wall insualtion, etc
A common cause of rising damp is when someone raises the earth or pavement outside the building so it is above the damp course.
I've known people who have had treatment for damp in their bricks when they just needed to lower the earth level outside to be below the damp course.
A damp proof layer made of slate with waterproof cement will never fail with age.
I am a bricklayer by trade so I tend to notice these things.
You are 100% correct, I have seen it so often it makes me want to scream. Ground level should be at least 150mm below the damp course.
But that's not rising damp, that's just damp caused by high outside levels.
@@TomTomTomTom538 It enters the wall and rises, ergo it becomes rising damp.
Most rising damp is because of some fault that occurs that has nothing to do with the buildings original construction.
@@harveysmith100 well that part I do agree with.
Ah you're brilliant. Love your work. I've seen a mock danger sign "translated" from Japanese: "Danger: do not dumb here. Dumb free area." You need one for your shed or whatever.
Rising damp isnt a myth, it does happen. In buildings it is done through capillary action, what makes it obvious in older buildings is that modern paints trap that moisture.
New builds are built differently which dont allow of the capillary action.
The mortar you speak of contains lime, which allows the water to dissipate naturally. It is the build type that is different and they need treating differently. The modern and traditional methods arent compatible with each other.
Put the tip of a towel in some water and watch what happens! Simple. However I assume most people get confused as a lot of damp problems in houses is either poor guttering and drainage or sweating inside
Hi Roger, could you post the link for that Moon video? Sounds interesting!
Some people say I have a dry sense of humour. I think it is damp.
No just no đ
Put some wellies on.
No it's a comedy show Lenard Rositer Epic show I still watch to this day!!
Miss Jones
I was under the impression that damp would only rise about 30 inches ? That's what we were told at college. I saw a
documentary several years ago. It was made by a chap who goes around doing inspections on houses for house buyers.
He said that in all of the inspections of damp he had done over many years, they were rarely caused by a faulty damp
course. there are many ways as to how moisture can penetrate a building. Ground level, faulty RWP's etc.
The idea that rising damp won't go above one metre is false. There are lots of examples of it going above that but if it is allowed to evaporate then is will do so in the first metre.
@@SkillBuilder I had rising damp in a house I rented. There was salt coming through and most of it was roughly a metre and some was way higher.
Very well balanced and reasoned. I believe in rising damp! However, I'm less sure about certain parts of the damp industry.
First comes the general surveyor, who sticks his moisture meter into various surfaces and opines that there might be damp and recommends a specialist. But there aren't really specialists, or many of them anyway. There are only firms that cure damp, using a variety of methods. But was it damp in the first place, or condensation? Well, these firms aren't going to say it's the latter.
This was my experience when I bought my house seven years ago. The firm I engaged diagnosed damp more or less all through the ground floor. The remedy, to hack off all the plaster (filling up a whole skip in the process), injecting some kind of gunk and then re-plastering with plasterboard and skimming. So the damp appears to be cured but I have the feeling the whole thing was over the top. (And my pocket felt it at the time, to the tune of c ÂŁ2500).
The dry rod method which you recommend looks a lot less intrusive and more economical in expense and time. Were you on CZcams seven years ago?
No, it is a misleading term. Old houses were designed to get wet, hold moisture and dry out. Moisture moved through the building in something (as he explained) called capillary action. Eveyr piece of timber has it. ,Every solid piece of masonry has it. We all agree capillary action is here to stay. We he dont get is that the "rising damp" he is getting all confused. HE should think "trapped moisture". "Trapped Moisture". That is moisture that is trapped because it cannot escape. This trapping is caused but he Damp industrys remedies. I see it EVERY day in my work. Even he says cement renders trap moisture. I wish he thought things through.
Wimpey International, (No longer in business) had many columns of various bricks with different strengths of mortar Etc. No damp course standing in water for over 30 years and guess what, damp fid not rise through the mortar course or the bricks more than 0.1mm.
Conclusion by Wimpey Labs...
Rising damp via brickwork does not exist. Water runs horizontally.
Wally dampman
Excellent rant Roger and totally correct! I did work for a remedial treatment company in the early 90âs. In hindsight I only found one case of âreal rising dampâ where the damp had risen to approx 900mm which was in an old empty house, quite fascinating to behold if Iâm honest, it was a textbook case.
The âfailure of the damp proof courseâ is in the main a myth in my experience. The main cause of damp in properties is down to many issues; condensation, blocked cavities, hygroscopic salts, penetrating damp where walls are solid, and one of the worst in my experience âsulphur saltsâ caused by penetrating damp down a chimney where no cowls have been fitted and the chimney is no longer in use as an open fire place. In my experience chimney breasts do not have a dpc and once decommissioned as an open fire tend to suffer with rising damp as well as penetrating damp where rain can get down the flue and they are not vented. If used as a flue for a gas fire, this is further exacerbated as gas is a âdamp heatâ. The end result is yellowing damp patches on and around the fire place.
If you have solid walls and suffer with penetrating damp then I would recommend âStorm Dryâ (no I am not sponsored by them, Iâm just a building inspector). This is a breathable membrane which is applied to the exterior of the masonry which is totally water proof but allows the masonry to breathe and release moisture from within the wall itself. It is also guaranteed for 25 years and drys clear and colourless.
If you have cavity walls and you have areas of damp, remove a brick on the outer leaf where the damp area is and check that the cavity is not blocked. If it is then clean it out and maybe replace the brick with an âair brickâ. If the cavity is clear then look under the floor to the internal leaf and make sure the dpc is not breached by previous âbuilderâ activity. Any joist ends should be checked as well where there is a breach to check there is not rot to the joist end.
The ultimate dpc failure test is to do a âSpeedy testâ although this test equipment is usually only used by remedial treatment companies.
Oh youâre one of them âŠâŠ..put our liquid in donât find out the real reason for damp being caused
I had a damp issue in my last house, solid brick Edwardian end of terrace. The council had relaid pavement ok the side of the house prior to us buying. I didn't realise that this would cause an issue when I bought the house, but the level of the pavement, outside was higher than the floor in the house. So yeh, damp in the walls. I spent blinking hours on the internet researching the issue and came to the conclusion that there wasn't much that could be done. Previous owners put an injected DPC in the walls, but this just trapped the moisture between the floor and the injected DPC, so any plastering between these would just blow eventually. The council were never in a million years going to install a French drain between the pavement and the house to stop prevent the issue. I sold the house and the new occupants tanked the wall, I would be interested to see what that did, I would imagine that it would damage the bricks eventually as there would be literally nowhere for the moisture to go.
I have exactly the same situation. You didn't help yourself having that surname... ;-)
Seen council contractors do this. Who cares when all you are interested in is how much per square metre you get for laying flags. Don't let the council fob you off. They caused it..
Anyone noticed how once damp starts rising it goes all the way up a wall to the top of the ceiling (especially in cold weather when it's far too cold to evaporate)?
Me neither.
I have a problem with falling damp, i have been told this is due to gravity....the moisture can't escape because it is stopped by the damp proof course.
We get emails from a lot of Australians who have the opposite problem
Iâd like to see a video about the most common building control fails, or maybe some of the more obscure regs that people miss. Iâm surprised building inspectors arenât more stringent with keeping the cavity clear
Your last sentence, I couldn't agree more with. I imagine it's difficult to police, or time issues on getting it inspected (does somebody have to inspect it before the roof/joists start going up?).
@@lloyd4011 they donât inspect before joists. Theyâll usually pay a ten minute visit once the structure is built before insulation but as the cavity is usually full of insulation, wouldnât be able to see the the damp course to check itâs not bridged.
good job covering the subject but I'd still never inject an old house
Not sure what was going on at 1:15 but damp course should be on two courses above ground level not one. A very bad example.
Sorry to get on my soap box Roger but this is one of the main causes of damp. People don't understand the importance of the damp course being 150mm above ground level.
That was only to prevent the ingress of water resulting from water dripping down off eaves onto the pavement and the resulting splashes soaking through the wall. The DPC being put at 6"" above the ground was to prevent that damp in the bricks being soaked upwards.
I don't agree with the cloud analogy, evaporation is a different mechanism, but another example you could give is plants. they wick water up from the ground through tiny channels similar to porous brick and stone.
trees and plants cannot exist without this phenomenon.
I talked about trees
Rogers dis-temper rising! đ
Also of damp issues are also to do with showers in every home, they create a lot of vapor and it settles on cold walls so if you have a cold home it stays
We indeed got a lot of rising damp in Amsterdam mate
It might be more to do with the over keenness to just shout RISING DAMP and then rinse loads of money from the home owner. When more often the fabric of the building itself has been corrupted such as blocked airbricks below floorboards or even overflowing gutters, I just dealt with damp in the middle of a 1st floor wall. We found the condensing boiler outflow pipe hidden behind a soil stack and the plumber had returned the pipe to the wall and moss had built up creating a bridge for water to penetrate.
That was a fine rant tonight Roger đ.
What about the surveyors for mortgage companies that used to say virtually every house need a damp proof course installing, Iâm sure often it was condensation or damp caused by other things such as faulty fall pipes etc. Not bought or sold a house for many years but remember all those surveys well from the 80s and 90s. Itâs just the rich tapestry of life.
I'm no expert - serious question. If rising damp is a thing - then surely the bricks below the dpc would be damp, but if you look at most houses they aren't. We live on a slope so at back of house theres 5 courses of brick before the dpc - they're dry above and below the dpc. Why/how could this be if damp moves up the wall without a dpc?
Evaporation, it is a thing. If the moisture evaporates into your house that can ruin your decorations and cause rot in skirting boards. Outside it does no harm
@@SkillBuilder Ah, I see, makes sense. Thank you for replying and your informative videos.
Would an air brick in the outer skin of a cavity help to let the cavity breathe from condensation? I have wool cavity wall insulation so I'm concerned that if the insulation gets wet, it will cause penetrating damp. Will some air bricks helpthe wool dry out?
Cracking rant! We had rising damp in our old utility room- the walls were literally damp to touch when we moved in.
DPC was being bridged by some badly laid concrete. Cut out the edges, and left a gap between the slab and the building. Left the plaster as we knew the room was going tk be replaced.
Dried out within weeks and stayed bone dry for 4 years until I knocked it down.
Personally, I disagree. I don't believe there is "Rising Damp" per se.
I believe there are two sources, capillary action and Condensation.
Capillary action is Sucking the moisture to the dry surface. Whether that is from leaking guttering splashing on the outside of the wall, or high ground levels, or where In some cases the DPC has been bridged and is being pulled up from the ground. This is a scientific process of capillary action
I just think "Rising Damp" is an inaccurate phrase which paints an incorrect picture in people's minds about what is actually going on.
The DPC, cavity wall etc are all methods for stopping capillary action. I.e. any kind of penetrating damp from one surface to another
I think that any Property with a DPC whether slates, types of brick or modern bitumen/plastic type provided itself has not failed/fallen out/bridged through poor workmanship, should never have any kind of injection damp proofing. I think that is a massive con. The DPC has stopped "capillary action" for decades and as you said it's unlikely that a slate dpc just fails over night, it's coming from other sources.
I think Rising damp is just the common name for the processes you have described, specifically where the water source is direct from the ground ie ground water. It doesn't really matter what you call it per say but it is a scientifically proven mechanism. There is even a formula for it. There is no positive test for it and this is at route of the misdiagnosis and in appropriate remedies.
These people simply have no understanding of capillary action
They are challenged by simple concepts.
My air vent bricks are 8 inches lower than my patio n when It rains hard they fill up with water over the air bricks lol would this course damp ?and next to a gutter drain pipe
Help would be great to what I could do plz
Fantastic rant Roger, hardly stopped for a breath!
Very informative and I reckon you could bust any mythđ
what would you do if you have damp coming through on a concrete floor on a old building that doesnt have a DPM ? obviously could dig up the floor and install a DPM but that would be far to costly ? do you think a liquid DPM would help ?
Don't think that's what they're saying Roger. If you have damp then it is a good idea to find the root. cause first before injecting etc. Usually a simple issue of gutter or drain pipe issue a breached do course bad pointing etc only a bit of hard graft.
Most educated people already know this. Ignore the cooks and keep producing valuable content.
I have a problem with rising damp in my underground garage in my new build town house. Bessa blocks were used on interior wall, and I wonder if they can be drilled like bricks shown in Rogerâs demonstration. It seems odd that damp proofing was not used in construction, as it appears a problem to be expected with 10 feet of soil abutting the garage wall. Any responses would be welcome.
What is the point of putting a bit of plastic around a row of brinks to stop the damp, if they then put so much cement on the brinks that the plastic get covered over??
Rising damp is very misunderstood and it's quite worrying that you can't get the same answer out of 2 builders.
It's capillary action, so it entirely depends on the material.
the water proof in cement is ash, just see what happens when you mix water with ash. the Romans observed this using the volcanic sand was better than what the Greeks did, using sand, which is better than what the Egyptians did no sand.
You sorted my head out of fear đ. I am moving to my last home in my senior years with little funds. You are teaching really helpful information. I will have a go at fixing my damp bungalow. Thank you for helping me out.
Love the way you present your advise. Great channel.đ
Whats the best solution in your opinion? Tanking slurry or a dpm stud membrane, like newton 803?
Done alot of tanking slurry jobs and rendered over always sorted the problem. Curious as the DPM wall membrane seems like a cleaner effcient method but seen some condensation problem vids on youtube....
Bingo on not being able to get anyone to do lime, Itâs why Iâve ended up stripping cement render and repointing in lime myself!
I'm planning on doing that soon. Any tips
@@danielknight3940 I started on an internal wall that I was actually going to cover anyway just to practice. I was starting from zero experience of repointing but it you've prior experience with cement I think the major differences are in the mixing you need to mix it more carefully than cement and more thoroughly. Get it to a very stiff mix phase first - by stiff I mean dry but not so dry as it's "balling" i.e. you're getting tiny gravel like pebbles. It needs to go just past that so it has enough moisture that it will clump together. Let it sit for 30 mins at this stage before adding water to get it to your desired consistency (normally still pretty stiff for repointing). I used NHL 3.5 so it's not quite as involved as doing a lime putty I believe. Wet the wall down about an hour before you start, lime needs moisture and CO2 to crystalize into its solid form. If the bricks are too dry they will pull the moisture out the mortar and it'll be chalky rather than solid. I tend to use a garden sprayer and start an hour before wetting down the areas I'll be working on and I keep adding a bit of spray every 30 mins or so to keep it damp. Good luck!
@@danielknight3940 get nigel copseys book on it, read it several times, don't use NHL.
The problem with this video is itâs a rant. No reference to the research evidence where it has proved impossible to recreate rising damp under controlled ( ie scientific) conditions. It may exist but it is extremely rare. There is kick back against it because of widespread industry practices predicated on selling rather than proper diagnosis.
Rising damp is not a myth, but I did see that Spitfire through the blue lens of my telescope, the tyre tracks show a perfect three point landing; poor argument that.
Hi Roger please can you advise my front outside wall have some bricks are crumbling not sure if it raising damp. Many years ago had damp treatment course and the bricks are painted. Can I use storm dry on painted brick and then use dry rods. Hope you can help as I am not a builder. Thanks great video
Here's what you do:
Place a brick in 25mm of water . Weigh a dry brick and then place it on top of your soaking brick. Re-weigh the dry brick after 5 days. It will weigh more ,especially if you add morter between the bricks.
2. Place 2 pieces of glass together and immerse into water. You'll see the water rise by capillary action. Water migrates whether by air or association of materials.
These rising damp deniers are claiming to be honest while calling others liers. Oldest trick in the book:
You were ripped off Madam/ Sir by the person that was here before me. I'm the good guy.
Wet your hand and shake someone else's hand. Do they notice? Is there transference?
Or, sit on a damp wall for 5 minutes and tell me you notice no affects walking away.
The term 'rising damp' is similar to to the term 'suction'
In scientific terminology neither one actually exists, the appearance of such actions are a perceived result of other actions,
Water can't run uphill, it's a solid fact. But air pressure differential can result in capillary action and evaporation.
No such thing as rising damp? How does water fall from the sky?
Love you Rodger .The only way to settle this is to phone Peter Ward and get him to come around and see and listen to what he has to say agreed !!
Hi Peter
There is an open invitation to Peter Ward and even Jeff Howell to debate this subject on Skill Builder but, so far, they have not taken us up on it.
Mate. I watched Rising Damp in the 80s one of the best sitcoms. I can confirm it existed