Belt vs Chain - Will the Belt Win the Ebike Race?
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- We have been working with belt-driven ebikes for the past 4 years and they have grown significantly in popularity. The most popular brand of belts and the best quality is the Gates Carbon Drive. In this video, we discuss the history of Gates, how they work and why they are becoming so popular.
Their motto is No grease. No rust. No problems. Since the belts are reinforced with carbon cords they are virtually as strong if not stronger than a traditional chain. More and more brands are adding belt-driven bikes to their catalog. Currently, we offer Ebikes from Butchers & Bicycles, Gazelle, Riese & Müller, Tern & Urban Arrow with Gates Carbon Belt Drives.
More about Gates Belt Drives at: www.gatescarbondrive.com
To see the belt drive bikes Propel offers click here: propelbikes.com/product-categ...
Belt Drive Video Chapters (click to skip to the specific point in the video):
0:00 Introduction to Belt Drives
0:40 Gates Belt Corporation History
1:50 Benefits of Belts on Ebikes & Why they are Better than a Chain (cleaner, don’t attract dirt, quite, longer-lasting, etc)
2:49 How Long Does a Gates Carbon Belt Last?
4:30 What Technology Does Belt Use (Internal Hubs, Frame Design, Etc.)4:50 What is the Gates Carbon Belt Made of?
6:46 Gates Centertrack Cogs
7:34 How to Handle a Carbon Belt
8:56 Bike Frame Manufacturing Requirements
10:20 Drivetrain Belt Compatibly (Internally Geared Hubs, Single Speed)
14:39 Frame Design to Accommodate Belts (Upper Chainstay vs Frame Split)
16:48 Electric Bike Belt Drive Applications & Components
18:28 How the Belt Handles Displacing Dirt & Debris
19:30 Special Frame Details to Accommodate a Belt (Dropout Slider, Snubber, etc)
20:30 How to Align a Belt in the Frame
21:00 Importance of Propel Belt Tension
23:35 Frequently Asked Questions About Belts
23:44 How do Belt-Driven Bikes Handle Different Terrain (Sand. Snow, Mud, etc)
25:00 Temperatures the Gates Carbon Drive Can Operate
26:55 Ebikes Available with the Gates Belt Drive in the US
30:00 Can I add a Belt Drive to a non-belt Ebike?
30:58 How Efficient Are Gates Belt Drives?
32:43 Full Suspension Electric Bikes with a Belt
33:50 Closing Thoughts
We hope you enjoyed this video. If you have any experience, questions or comments please leave them below. We look forward to your feedback.
#beltdriveebikes #gatescarbondrive #beltdrive - Věda a technologie
Thank you guys for all the overwhelming love and support!✌
If you're interested in checking out some bikes with belt drives, feel free to check out the links in the description.🚲
Here's my story with Belt Drives. I bought a high end commuter a few years back because it had the belt drive, I lived in Brooklyn and needed something low maintenance that gets me through rain and snow, so got the BMC Allpenchallenge. Everything was dialed in, just an amazing bike, if you lower your expectations on speed. Belt Drives are amazingly quiet, I loved it. Then a year later, I started getting an awful "squeak" on every rotation of the crank. I took it to multiple shops, they couldnt figure it out. So I decided to take care of it myself. Started by adjusting the tension on the eccentric bottom bracket, aligning the front and rear cogs, got a tension tuner for belt drives, got a new bottom bracket, just threw everything I could think of at this thing. Disassembled and regreased every component on the bike, even sent Gates a video of the "squeaking". Nothing worked, I stopped riding it, yes it is near zero maintenance but I couldnt handle the noise on what were supposed to be nice and quiet rides. Fast forward a few years, I get back into figuring this issue out, and I decided to clean every connector I could think of. Belt drives most of the time (not always) require a split in the seat stays, so I unscrewed and cleaned the connection as much as possible (its hard to separate that area and get a proper cleaning) and mother of christ that was the issue, tiny dust and dirt particle get in the split zone from the frame flexing over time and thats where the sound was coming from.
TLDR: clean the GD split area in the frame once a year.
Thanks!
Thanks so much for sharing this. This is great to remember and to note for those with a frame break.
I was lucky with my BMC AC01 with Gates CDX belt. 5 years of quiet commuting
Nice! I think some environments naturally require a bit more attention. But either way a belt is going to be less work than a chain.
I had similar noises from my Gates belt drive. Turns out that a simple jet wash with a pump up garden spray, using plain water on the tooth side of the belt cured/cleaned it. I got the idea after hearing that riding through dusty deserts can cause belt drives to start making noises unless the dust is rinsed off. I don't ride through deserts but thought I'd give it a go, and it worked.
A couple of months ago, I rode a R&M Superdelite with all the upgrades, Rohloff and belt drive and all. A $14K+ beast. I concluded then that ebikes have the potential to revolutionize the way we apes get around, and belt drives and automatic gear shifting would be integral of that revolution. Car killing machine.
Great film Chris. I was going to mention the "cycling about" guy and how he loves the belts, he rides in some of the most inhospitable places on earth! I think chains have been popular for so long because there wasn't really a viable alternative. I think it's just a matter of time before the majority swap over to belt drive bikes.
Thanks! Much appreciated! He did a great job on his video and it’s a great example of what’s possible with a belt.
Why though? Belts have been around for a long long time. Chains are cheaper and more efficient. Belts need less maintenance and hardly care about rough conditions. Both have their uses and for a great majority of everyday bikers going to work or the store on paved roads chains are generally the best choice.
My Cube Hyde Pro with Alfina 8 speed & belt drive is being delivered next week and I cannot WAIT to begin my journey with it. Belt drive is definitely the future.
So I’ve been writing 45 years with chain drive. I’ve also toured a lot over land. The thing with the belt drive because you have to have a specific set up for it. And if you’re overland touring going across the countryside due today and something happens with that belt you better have a spare. Or you’re up a creek without a paddle. I recently watched a CZcamsr that tours across the continent on a full-time basis and he had broken his belt drive on his priority 600. He was basically screwed. Yes chains are more maintenance, But part of owning a bicycle of any type is being turned into your maintenance just like any vehicle. I change real easy to get in any small middle of nowhere town. And usually a cassette or free wheel can be found and change mine because these are all wear down in synchronization. In the 45 years that I’ve been riding I never had a chain break just wear down.
Belts every time with an ebike. So much easier to care for. Clean, quiet and less maintenance
Well put.
My e-bike has had one service in 3 and a half years. No replacement parts so far. And when I look around at other bikes, it still feels like I’m riding a space ship by comparison.
@@christill love this space ship idea! Maybe we are already living in a Jetson era and we just didn't know it.
Chains can be 100% recycled. Can belts?
@@dpstrial I am not sure. Can you tell me?
I’ve cycled and raced bikes for over 25 years and now added a Rohloff with a Gates belt on my R&M for daily and next years long distance touring. Just love the simplicity of it. Love the video and very well explained.
Thanks Andrew! We’ve heard similar stories many times over actually. It’s a great way to go!
Hi @Digital.Done.Right. I'm intrigued by the fact you mentioned racing bikes! I've been trying to get more info on belt+racing for weeks and just nothing really to base myself off of. There's this wooden bicycle manufacturer in my area and we've been playing with the idea of making a belt drive wooden racing bike. The efficiency of the Rolloff 14 seems to be super ok. The major downside appears to be the frame that needs to guarantee both belt tension and alignment. Secondly, if anything goes wrong, you're not really going to work on an internal hub system like you play with the simplicity of chains+derailleurs. (Repairability) What's your recommendation given your massive experience?? :)
Mr. Calififornia/propel, very informative, I think most people would like to know more about speed, range with or without pedal assist AND cost. Thank you and keep Americans informed. I truly believe
this is the wave of our future.
My wife and I ride the Priority 600 with the Gates belt drive and Pinion gear drive and have really enjoyed the quiet, clean and low maintenance system.
Thanks for a very informative video Chris. My wife and I have chain style bikes on order but thats going to be changed. From a maintenance perspective going with the belt system is a no brainer. I'm sure glad we stumbled on your video.
Seems CZcams algorithm fail to estimate my income within reasonable margin.
Keep your eyes out, I picked up a new front crank for £5 including postage 41t belt chainring. And a rear cog for £2.99. So I bought 2. Either I'll engineer an adapter to put it onto a standard shimano hub, or keep my eye out for an Alfino and a compatible gear trigger.
Give it time and belt prices will go down as the popularity grows .
I’ve been messing with chains all my life . Belts especially in this application is the way to go .
Now that’s a non-union job talking
Yeah, what he said!!
A really excellent contribution: comprehensive, interesting and accessibly presented. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Belts are cleaner, quieter and super low maintenance. I found something very interesting, because I had 2 bikes with the same frame and motor - one with 11 speed Shimano Deore XT 11-50 cassette, the other was with Enviolo. Both of them using latest motor from Bosch Gen.4 85 Nm. Riding each of the bikes is completely different experience - chain feels more powerful, less resistance while pedaling and pretty fast. On the other hand side, belt feels very good, smooth, however bike accelerates a little bit slower, feels less efficient. The other significant difference is battery consumption - belts consume more, this is confirmed by testing them on the same terrain.
There is one more difference - when you turn off motor assistance, pedaling bike with chain is much more easier than Enviolo. which feels very hard when you do not have motor assist.
P.S. Bike comparison is between Riese Muller Multicharger MIxte 2022 750 Wh ( Touring with 11 speed Deore XT vs Vario Enviolo )
I guess those rightly noticed differences have more something to do with the Enviolo gear hub compared to the derrailleur, than the chain drivetrain itself in comparison to the Gates Carbon belt drivetrain.
Thanks! As usual, a very thorough and informative video. The indexing is most appreciated for review. I like the simplicity of the geared hubs on this video.
Once again, I learned a lot on my road to purchasing an ebike. Love your videos.
Zero maintenance, completely silent and god damn clean and sexy to look at.
Hello Propel, Thank you for the very informative and very well produced video!
I like how my first reaction is "You're supposed to oil your chain?!?" lol
I learned a lot ! Thanks. A great video again. I like that pinch of humor on the impulse to correct that the youtube community exhibits :) . I was a the NYC store this AM and had a great experience again! I am lucky to have a store like yours nearby!
Awesome! Thanks so much for your comments and support! We can’t do this without great people like you!
My experience with chain is, they need lots of care. You try to keep it oiled then it attracts dirt and dirt eats up the chain. It is a constant maintenance problem. At least it is where I live.
Great video Chris! I've had my Vario Load 60 for over 9 months now. I find the bike and the belt drive extremely low maintenance. The belt developed an annoying squeak after about 1200km. I bought a Gates Krikit tool, adjusted the tension and bingo - fixed! I look forward to many years of riding on this bike.
Hey Steve! Happy to hear you’ve been happy on the Load! That thing rocks! Hope you have many happy rides ahead!
I have a gates drive with an internal hub on my ebike and I love it. Quiet, clean, tough & long lasting. This is a big part of the future for most recreational riders. Well explained and interesting as usual, keep up these films .... thanks Chris!
It’s the way to go for sure! I think we will continue to see more in the future
Thanks for your support.
Agree on all accounts!
Really great video! in depth and informative.
another excellent insight video from Chris on an important bike technology
Thanks so much Michael! I’m very happy you enjoyed the video as we really enjoy making them.
I have a stand up elliptical used it since 2011 w avg 2 >3k miles per year, Wipe the chain 1x week &lube and still works fine. I also have a REI Novarra Gotham w Nuvinchi 380 and Gates belt and love that as well.
Thanks for sharing this! If you can keep a chain clean it will usually it will hold up really well. The trouble is bikes are usually ridden in much dirtier environments than your home. That Novato Gotham looks cool!
Great Post Chris. It took me 60 years before I finally bought my 1st brand new bike. And that bike is an R & M Nevo with the (NuVinci CVT) or now called the Enviolo. I ride about a thousand miles a year and my Nevo has around 3,500 miles with all original everything. (Battery, tires, brakes, etc.) Buy nice or buy twice !!!
Thanks for this. I test drove the Gazelle range (C-8, T10 RMB and I think the 380) tonight and insisted on testing the belted version as I’ve had experience with modern carbon belts in cars, and I’m impressed. I’m concerned with the nviolo cvt twist grip transmission and the cost when they fail. The sales rep did point me at R&M when I asked for other recommendations and I noticed I was jumping from $2,500 CAD to 8,000....Jesus guys, and all I wanted for my midlife crisis was a broken-down Miata....
@@Lorin-GabrielLeaua-fm1lw wow, I can barely follow but thank you...hopefully someone reading this will act on this. I wound up buying a Ride1Up 700 and find it super heavy but excellent for my commuter needs. Really well constructed Have been thinking to trade for their
great in-depth content.
Not having to carry around degreaser, lube, and drivetrain floss would be a big plus in the van. The dirtiness is exaggerated in such a small space. Most often my rides are a bit rougher than commuting conditions, and a lot dirtier. I think it would be great for me.
Thanks a bunch :)
Every question answered. Love your videos.
Lots of great information here. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
I love it when you talk about belt and cogs :)
Great overview. Yep, I used to ride Harleys and I rode them hard. I can't recall that exact year they switched over to belts, but I want to say it was in the mid to late 80s.
I got about 12k miles spread over about 5 years (I always had more than one Harley at a time, so my mileage was spread over 2-3 bikes) and even in the one case where I replaced the belt, I did it just for peace of mind. The belt that I replaced was just showing a small amount of wear, so I preemptively replaced it. That particular bike was a bespoke bike that I built and that had a very high hp, high torque, S&S engine which made the belt's longevity all the more impressive. And boy did I push that bike hard with frequent full throttle pulls and lots of holeshots! Hey, I was young and power hungry! 🤠
It's awesome tech and I wish my RadRunner had it.
I have a Evelo Aurora with the gates belt Drive and Envelio hub the harmony shifting mechanism is smooth and quiet. Proper belt tension is key as Chris pointed out.
The marriage between bikes and trikes being transported in RV's is a new area for design innovations.
Good information. Well done.
Good knees to be presenting the hole video in that position.👏👏👏. Over half hour!
Super informative video
If youre a regular biker moving mostly on paved roads to work etc then chains are the way to go. Belts have their advantages in rougher conditions since they dont really care about mud and dirt. Chains are more efficient and unlike belts work with regular derailers. Theyre more efficient as well so itll be a bit easier to pedal.
I honestly think you might be the webs best explainer of things.
I just bought a new Priority Classic Gotham Edition and it has rapidly become my favorite bike in 50 years of cycling.
I am car-less by choice and this bike hits that sweet spot.
I live in Southern Indiana, with hills and snow, the bike is well suited for a varied climate.
The only problem is that I am a tinkerer, and there's nothing to tinker, just ride.
Also I am totally clueless as to what is inside the Shimano Nexus rear hub and willing to stay that way and just ride.
Thanks for a very good movie, Chris. It has everything you need to know about a belt-driven bike! I have experience approx. 3000 km driving belt driven R & M bike and I really enjoyed. The only small drawback is the annoying sound when driving in dusty conditions on a gravel road. But in this case, water washing helps. Cleaning and belt tightening are the only maintenance that I had to do.
Nice Tapio! Thanks for sharing your experience. I’d recommend trying some silicone spray to help keep the belt quiet in dusty conditions. You could also try Rohloff chain lube, I know it seems weird but it works well.
@@Propelbikes Thank you those tips, Chris. Until now, I have done a spray bottle of water and an old toothbrush, but next time I'll try, a silicone spray. Rohloff grease can be harder to find in here..
Cool! I hope you report back how it works out
Nice, informative and straight to the point as usual Chris ! I struggled with my first ebike for 3 years replacing chains and derailleurs 3 times, eventually found a steel 11 gear SRAM set that lasted a bit longer than the other flimsy shimano drive train sets. But all that is gone as my bike was stolen from my workplace and police could not do anything although they know who did it. CCVT not good enough. My insurance money and a bit extra enabled me to buy the R&M Superdelight Rohloff GX with a great NHS UK healthcare worker discount. Obviously there was a certain amount of R&M influence from your videos... I only had it for 2 weeks but... Woow , what a difference it makes to no worry about crunching those gears and replacing parts soon enough. Many people have difficulty adjusting to the Rhloff timing for gear change but I find that it is very intuitive and its like it almost reads my mind when to shift/ change. I agree it s the future to come indeed. Going to try some bike park traks this weekend. Keep them coming Chris, nice work !
Thanks so much for sharing your experience Dragos! I hope to get to come visit the UK sometime in the future. I’m come to make some really nice friends from over in your side of the ocean.
The Superdelite Rohloff is tough to beat! Have fun my friend!
@@Propelbikes I'm looking at all of these bikes and also considering the Electra and Specialized bikes.
another excellent video Chris belts is the only way to go for me, chains the past
Belts rock! 🤘
I guarantee that belts will be the future! Dirt dust mud water no problem! And quiet!
With internal hubs the chain typically lasts 3 times as long as with derrailleur gears. So >=3000 miles instead of >=1000 miles.
There is a surprising combination (that I prefer for Biobikes): A chain with a closed chain protection like the Hebie Chainglider. Almost no maintenance needed and I used a chain with this combination for 6000 miles (10000 km, for the majority of the world ;)).
This is meant as additional information, not a contradiction to this video. Especially for Ebikes, belt drives are a great option.
Excellent point! The chain does not need to bend/flex from lowest to highest cog and can be much more robust as well.
Thank you for the amazing review! I’ve purchased my first bicycle with gates CDN few months ago and never regret about that, it is really almost zero maintenance and comfortable technology.
Yep, there are some cons. Total odometer now about 1500km, often with rainy and greasy conditions. Because I purchased a low-end bike (polygon path i8) with polymer front and real sprockets, the real sprocket already looks very bad and soon should be replaced with stainless steel one. Fortunately, seems like Gates do not offer anymore polymer rear sprockets option, so new users won’t face this issue, I hope.
Commuting by bike is not so popular in my city, carbon drive even less popular, and for all the time I’ve seen only 2 another bikes with carbon drive on the street. So, if this is also a your case, be ready that people may be curious and will ask many questions like “weird chain you have, nah, what is that?”
Thanks for the video! I was riding the R & M Supercharger2 GT Vario HS with Enviolo, and the R & M Delight GT Rohloff HS. Although I like the idea of belt drives in general and see some advantages of belt drives, for me they have some major disadvantages. That's why I would still prefer a chain drive like the Sram Eagle, or Shimano XT :
1. Gear changing with the Enviolo is pretty smooth, but the range of 380° is a no go if you're riding mountains, or as I did, riding a speed pedelec. In Germany the speed you could achieve is around 30 mph, but then your cadence with the enviolo gets just a way too high.
2. Rohloff provides a wide range (526°), but the gear change takes too much time. So you loose speed again and it just interrupts your paddling flow.
If there would be something with the same range and gear change comfort like a sram eagle 1x12, but only with a belt drive, it would be great.
My first introduction to Gates was back when I used to be into motorsports. When you have an interference motor, you really don't want your timing belt to snap (otherwise you'll do some very expensive damage to your valvetrain, and possibly your pistons). A Gates timing belt might cost a little more, but if you car about your motor, it's the one to get.
I'm happy they're making bicycle drivetrain parts. I'm thinking that there would likely be few supply chain problems from a large auto parts manufacturer vs the likes of Shimano or SRAM.
I ride an e bike since 2015 and I have have at least 42000 km with that bike and. never had a problem with my chain, 🇳🇱
You give the best explanations. I had no idea belt technology had evolved so. I ride dirt motorcycles and in that world the concern is always about a rock jamming into a tooth. The Gates system makes that extremely unlikely to happen. Probably just us riders being hide-bound.
Much appreciated!
Super happy with my belt drive on my Lekker Outback. Waiting for the day chainless/beltless bikes are available. Heard of a fly by wire system being developed... :)
in the old days, cars did need to be serviced every thousand miles, but they worked on those issues and they were then better built, however bikes never really changed that much over the years except new tech every so often and maybe you could see something new.
But for the best of the time it's just been the breaks that got upgraded to disc, but that's about it until they went electric, sure they did part off where they inspired the car and were developed into the car and they split into a motorbike which was belt driven at the time, but afterwards they had such a long gap of silence, new handlebars every so often and racing... but outside that, not much for the commuter because you had the car, bikes were for kids and those that did it for sport, not commute!
But then the people in other countries started saying "hey, we need more alternatives to these cars, so... pedestrian safety needs to be a priority, oh people are now cycling more because the cars are being more friendly to those meatbags... let's build better infrastructure... and so further technologies were changed and I think there's another boom since cities are seeing that it's cheaper and many times better to have people walk, use public transit and commute by bike and they are seeing less deaths and better healthcare.
Electric bikes are cool, never tried one, probably won't buy one because I want my bike for fitness and I don't need the assist, maybe future me can buy one, belt drives are good because they take technology from the belt drives of the car and brings it to the bike, the electric bikes are becoming lighter because of the advancements in carbon fiber and fiberglass tech along with lithium-polymer (or your battery tech of choice) along with software, regenerators, smart things on the bikes.
I like to see this, as a commuter, will I ever buy a $12,000 bike, no... but most people won't and in the end the same people would appreciate that the tech exists, for those that want it and the more that buy it the tech will eventually become cheaper, my bike is steel frame with shocks on the forks, my ass feels like it's been kicked in a few times every time I ride it, but I'm just a whiner...
Keep doing this work, we need more people to be excited about commuting, and TBH the better the roads will be, the more I will bike.
I've own motorcycles since I was old enough to drive ... I'm not talking about a honda step through, no, my first bike was a Triumph Tiger Cub ... then 3 months later i bought a Pre-unit 650cc Triumph at a police auction for $150... restored it (even the "Bates" seat)... over the years I still own 3 Triumphs (Including a 1968 Bonneville with a 750cc kit, a WWII restored Indian Scout (750cc) and a 1979 Shovel head dresser I bought NEW. One day a friend of mine years ago was with me at a repair shop here in Australia where I moved and I was getting some work done, so he lent me his new Harley which had a Rubber mounted engine, rubber primary drive belt and a rear wheel rubber drive belt. It was the smoothest Harley I had ever rode. When I got back I mentioned this to the HD mechanic. He claimed not only smoother, less noise, but more efficient drive, in other words more HP. As I'm older than dirt and all that metal I got installed in me during the Vietnam War, I was looking at building my own new Harley Trike (still thinking about electric???) I think rubber drives beat anything hands down from my experience. I even took a friends Direct drive BMW R-750 on an 800 mile trip and it took for ever to get use to the drive on wet roads...I am old ...LOL
Thank you Chris for your informative video’s. The advice you’ve offered help me choose my Benno Boost with Gen 4 Bosch power train. On a mute point I know the Boost could not accommodate a “belt” drive but could it be upgraded to a Rohloff Speedhub, chain driven of course ? Have a great remainder if the week and weekend ! Brian Wing from cold Canada.
Thanks Brian! Much appreciated! I do think it could be possible to retrofit a Rohloff on a Benno. It would take some work but it could be possible.
Good video Chris. I've enjoyed my belt drive Avanti Inc 2 commuter for 7 years or so now, and have really appreciated the low maintenance aspect around our dirty country roads. One bit of feedback specifically on Shimano Alfine 11 speed: the hub leaks oil due to a badly designed seal, meaning the belt gets greasy and this in turn attracts dirt. Not a big deal as it's easy enough to wipe the belt clean but worth pointing out. In terms of components longevity, I haven't managed to get more than about 5000km out of a single belt, and change the cogs after 10000km. I'm definitely a belt convert.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience. The Alfine hub is really cool, but it's a bit quirky. I wonder if Shimano has a fix for that leak. I know we had a good amount of ebikes sold with that hub and it seems they have held up well. We did have some trouble with them slipping under extreme torque, but otherwise they perform really well. I wonder if that oil contributed to lower belt life, I suspect it may since it would cause more dirt to cling to it.
I'm not aware of an endemic problem with the Alfine hub. However, I've got a road bike with belt drive and the Alfine 8 (Civia Bryant), and I did have a problem with oil leaking out after having the hub serviced. The shop had damaged the seal when they were reassembling it.
In my case, the oil got out on the brake side of the wheel, so no problem on the belt, but of course made a big problem for braking. I gave the shop an earful, made them repair the hub properly, and never had any more trouble with oil leaking.
I've also got a R&M Supercharger with the Enviolo and belt drive, and it's fantastic. No leaky hub there either.
Thanks for the clarifications. I am happy for the time being with my chain drive ebike. As time goes on there will be more competition among belt drive bikes which will no doubt lower the price. My next bike will be belt drive although I am not in any rush.
I’m sure as the economies of scale kick in that will be a factor as well.
@@Propelbikes Thanks for all you do, keep us posted.
Thank you for your support! It really means a lot.
Bosch motor, Rohloff hub, and Gates belt drive and you have an unbeatable combo
This is such a good video. I use my bike for transportation and exercise and less for "racing" where chains might matter. I can do both with a belt drive plus the shifting is vastly superior and I'm not cleaning chains. I'm curious about changing out tires though. My next E-Bike will likely have a belt on it. I'll give it two years since I just received my Gazelle Bike with the chain.
I’m sure we will see many more bikes with belts in the near future and I anticipate we will see more from Gazelle as well. Happy riding Christopher!
I’m coming from a car/ regular bike & the nuances of ebikes are new to me. A video how maintain my bike would be great.
Thanks! I have it on the list and you should be see many videos like this soon. Let me know if there are any specific areas of concern.
Belts are here to stay!
Well done.
Thanks 🙏
Priority Bicycles’ is an American manufacturer based in NYC. Their entire line up of bicycles come with Gates Carbon Belt drive.
They are a nice brand and an American company, but it might be misleading to say they are an American manufacturer. Their bikes are built in China.
For me the Gates CDX Belt with Enviolo hub is a clear winner.
The only thing that happened in 2000 km was that the belt started to make a small squeak after a thorough wash with detergents (of the whole bike). Applying a little bit of silicone spray, and all is smooth again.
No wear visible after 2000km anyhow.
Love the belt drive on my commuter bike. Will never again have a chain on my daily bike. (avid, daily biker for decades...)
The neatest design shown is to have an extra roller and use that to push it up and route the bottom run of the belt over the chainstay. No frame break, no split belt. It just makes more sense.
Great info as always. I have a 1.st gen R&M Charger with the oldest CX motor and regular chain drive. Do you see any reason to advise against having it retrofitted with a Gate belt and Enviolo hub?
Glad you enjoyed the video! It could be possible to retrofit those bikes because of the upper chain stay, but it might be more cost effective to sell it and get another built that way.
You make me think about getting a belt drive internal hub bicycle but I would never want to negotiate going into NYC to look at one or for service for one. Wish you had places in NJ suburbs too.
I am using my R&M charger with beltdrive and enviolo gearbox for everything. 50.000 km in 5 years, still with the 1st belt and 1st gearbox. Whatelse can you expect?
Commuting, Shopping with a Trailer behind, Vacation, whatever you can think about ... no problem with this combination. The lower efficiency of this combination results in lower distance per accu-load. (about 80 Km per 500 WH capacity). I just use a 2nd battery, which I store in my luggage, whenever I am planning for more than und 80 Km per day .
I Bougth a E-bike, short after my 70years Birthday, now i have used that bike with Gate´s Belt for 2636 km, without problems, the last 2 Month´s not used, because we have bad weather in DK. My Bike is a Danish Design: MBK Vitesse with Yamaha Motor PW-SE 60Nm and 400W Battery. Longest drive at one tour was 69 km, up and down at normaly Roads. I can REALLY RECOMAND to buy a Bike with Belt.
If you live in super steep terrain, like I do, a Rohloff with belt drive is a must.
I’ve just destroyed a Bosch CX motor after three years of use, because the chain& drivetrain stressed the motor too much.
Also, I had to get a new chain twice a year and a cassette once a year.
I rode along a sea wall during a gusty day during lockdown. The next week my whole chain gear had turned a bright orange (rust). This would be a solution especially if the cogs were non ferrous. Really enjoy your vids always high quality with easy to listen diction.
I definitely this this would work well for this application.
I've got a road bike with belt drive (Civia Bryant), and the original rear cog was aluminum. Unfortunately, it fatigued and broke and had to be replaced. I believe the replacement is stainless steel; stronger, just as corrosion-resistant as aluminum, but a bit heavier and more expensive.
The front cog actually looks to me like some kind of high-strength plastic, but I could be mistaken. In any case, I've never had any trouble with rust or other corrosion on either cog. It's one of the reasons I love the belt drive so much; years of all-weather commuting, including plenty of rain, and still basically no maintenance.
I like the belt drive on my Civia so much that when I wound up in the market for an e-bike, I wound up choosing the much more expensive R&M Supercharger, because at the time it was the only e-bike I could find with a large enough frame but which had the belt drive (Haibike has frames that actually fit me even better, but none with belt drive).
I had a non electric belt drive bike, the Spot Acme and I was stunned how much the shimano alfine system slowed the rotation of the tire, I thought something must be wrong. The bike looked spotless after a salty WI winter, I'll give it that, quiet too. *If* I got a flat I might have to kneel down in bad weather to hold a phone on a belt to retension it.. I'd even consider a titanium cassette and chain over a belt even though the cost is high.
I'm glad you mentioned it causes some stress on the chainstay.
I wonder if you had something else going on with that bike. It shouldn’t slow you down at all. For changing a flat different drop out designs are better than others. We don’t see the ones you need to retention when you remove the wheel anymore. Usually the adjustment is a separate part.
@@Propelbikes It's possible.
There are rubber timing belts in engines that are coated in oil spinning at thousands of rpm. in extreme heat. Not saying it is the way to go but in comparison E bike stress is minimal. Plus they are easy to change.
It is pretty impressive what is possible. I’m pretty sure most of those belts are reenforced like the ebike belt though.
About 5,300 miles on our two Rohloff's with Gates. Only issue we encountered was the lockrings for the cogs did loosen up at one point - which caused noise. A special tool and the right size torque wrench has solved that problem.
The belts still seem fine. The cogs do show some wear - but they appear to be wearing a "flat" to the end of each tooth as opposed to each tooth wearing down thinner. We live in the desert, so the belts never see wet weather with road grit thrown up on the bike. From the what I've seen, I'd guess the cogs might need replacement at about 10,000 miles. Question: Should the belt be changed at the same time as the cogs?
Dis dude spent like half an hour just talking about his rubbers. CZcams is wicked sick.
Cars moved from timing belts to timing chains so they would last much longer. Somehow with bikes they're marketing the opposite.
Belts are usually lighter, have no backlash and dampen vibrations a bit, which is nice I suppose.
Flapdrol, I thought the same thing. I'm guessing the main difference is that the timing chain of a car operates in an enclosed, clean, well-lubricated space, while bike chains operate out in the open and are thus vulnerable the elements. I still think timing chains are more durable for cars, but this video opened my eyes to some of the potential benefits of a modern belt for bike applications. It seems like the biggest drawback of the belt is that it is mostly impractical to have a hub motor due to the transmission being in the hub, thus kind of forcing a mid-drive setup.... the increased complexity of this setup (with internal hub transmission and mid-drive) I'm guessing makes these bikes more expensive, though that's just a guess.
Still deciding on a new touring build with to go for. Belt or Chain. The new rear cog
informative!!! what are your thoughts on using the Pinion gearbox-belt combo compared to a hub?
Mid motor is better.
4,100miles and counting on my belt drive. Apparently the belt drive will
Last for up to 19,000.miles 🤞. So by that reckoning about 4-5 years of use before I have to replace it.
For a Commuter Ebike, I would definitely buying a belt drive!
Hello, your video's helped us a lot when we wanted to buy electric bikes. We bought "Velo de Ville", do they have this in the States? Greetings from Belgium, Europe
Thanks! Glad they helped! We don’t have that brand in the US, but they seem nice. Happy riding!
Good points, we definitely are seeing the evolution of what anthropologists might call Tribes, road cyclists are one and Lycra is part of their uniform. Messengers using bikes are another rarely in Lycra and at least in the uk often flouting road rulers giving a bad name to people on cycles. Mountain bikes form another and in many places Electric bikes are developing another band in the Cycling Tribe. Just like pedestrians are challenging the dominance of cars in many towns so are cyclists. That does create tension as both cyclists and drivers try and navigate a mutually acceptable space. Town planners in most places are some way behind the increasing use of bikes which is a contributing factor in this tension. The Netherlands and other places are way ahead which is a key issues in the relative harmony there. In France its required that there is a 1.5m distance between cars and cyclists, even with this and a long tradition of cycle road racing, in 2020 there was 60,000 cycling accidents requiring emergency services response. As we develop a greater focus on bikes and e bikes in particular we need to evolve planing and behavioural responses to match increased use.
I can’t imagine why anyone would prefer a traditional metal chain, when presented the option of a carbon belt drive. When they’re no longer cost-prohibitive, adoption will be imminent.
For those who don’t ride a bike very often, I suppose it wouldn’t matter much, since they wouldn’t be dealing with chain stretch or having to lube often, as long as they can store their bike indoors and keep it clean.
We totally agree Mo! Thanks for sharing your thoughts
I totally agree if you are commuting or going for a city drive but if you consider it for sports there are some major drawbacks mainly related to weight and efficiency reasons. Don't forget that a internal hub will way round about 2.5kg. A chain groupset will be round about 20% of that. Additionally a clean chain group has a higher efficiency.
Chains have been around forever. Early trucks had chain drives. There is also a big price differential between chain and belt. As belt drives become more popular there will be more bikes available and the competition will make it more of a buyer's market. When I bought my CCX there weren't so many better options. Now I am looking to trade at some point but am willing to put up with the aforementioned problems with chain drive for the short term. I also like my Tesla better than my GM or Ford.
All else being equal, I would always choose a belt. Quiet, convenient, strong, easy maintenance, etc. But choosing a belt necessarily reduces the number of make/model options drastically.
(Others have noted the weight and efficiency aspects, which can be a concern to be sure, but only in certain applications. Even on my steel-frame commuter bike, which is pushing 50 lbs after accounting for add-ons like rear rack, kick stand, lights, etc. it's not a big deal, and for an e-bike you're really just looking at a percent or two less range on the battery...the motor easily eats up any power difference you might notice.)
RELIABLE FUNCTIONALITY and LOW MAINTENANCE is the key to my happiness.
Really appreciate the information you guys are putting out.
I have some questions you may be able to help with.
I come from traditional old skool bikes, I used to mtn bike for fun and race and road bike for the same.
Pre electric, got rid of the road bike , still have the 3x8 man bike, looking at going electric, rode a specialized Levo recently and loved it.
Thinking about a R&M, probably either a Delite or a Delite Mountain, it will be a fun plus transport with more emphasis on transport, but more enthusiasm for fun.
If I go for a Delite HS GX Rohloff, is is possible to remove the Mud Guards, and what does the Mountain version have that the Delite does not, I assume with no mud guard I could run wider tyres, but still have the option of 28 mph as opposed to 20 of the CX mountain?
The other question may show my ignorance of the electric but can I pedal faster than 28mph, I can on my old skool hard tail man bike, what happens if I am peddling fast enough to hit 30 or more mph, will no motor stop, burn out, or what happens, can you even do this ?
Yes belt on bike doesn’t have lube between bike belt and sprocket. Belt also has hysteresis loss that isn’t negligible.
When I hear people talk about things like "efficiency" and "weight", I always end up picturing people who are at least 100 lbs overweight and massively out of shape. People who have bodies like mine.
I would argue that VERY few people in the world are in good enough physical condition to be able to tell the difference between a 100% efficient (which doesn't exist) and a 90% efficient gear train. Nor would they be able to explain why saving 100 grams on their bike is important, when they could keep the 100 grams on the bike and lose 10 kg instead.
How do ebike belts handle stones? My Dad rode Harley's in the 80's and had a couple of bikes with belts. He liked them, but stone and pebbles were an utter bane, he even had a belt break in the desert.
Definitely seems the future if they exist in cars and motorcycles. I confess that I have ordered a packster 70 with deraileur. I was tempted to go for a Vario with a belt drive but changing a flat with rain on the side of the road on a cargo bike above 40 kgs I had second thoughts. I hope I don't regret too much!
I’m sure you’re going to love that bike no matter the drivetrain! Super excited about this one. The derailleur definitely has its benefits as well. Happy riding!
I've been thinking about a belt for my E-bike But I have to go with Front-wheel Motor.
I have a Raleigh Mountain bike from1991, aluminum frame, and it's got the chain going through the frame, I think with the right design a person could run a belt drive without breaking the frame because I was interested in getting a Rohloff 14 speed. I'm looking for feedback on this and was trying to avoid replacing the bike since I've got so much money put in it already.
If you are going for low maintenance you will need to use wheels that do not have wire spokes. Using magnesium or some type of light weight material that does not require adjusting spokes or trueing all the time. You will also need to use a sealer in the tires.
These can also be good measures to decrease the maintenance requirements
How about a review if cycle racks for cars and compatibility with step through frames
A Kalkhoff ebike, now 10.000 kms, absolutely trouble free, low maintenance, bashed around like you wouldn't believe in the Australian outback. I'd never go back to a chain.
The MAIN reason chains rule ( for over 100 years ) is their efficiency. There is nothing to touch a chain for efficiency. Belt efficiency is way lower than chain.
For more than a year all my traveling needs have been met by biking. I eat up a chain in a month to 2 months. Every other chain is a new gear set. As the chain & gears wear getting the shifter to give me all my gears becomes a problem. I ride 300+ miles per week. Will be going to belt drive (Gates or Veer), with a Rohloff hub. Far cheaper in the long run.
The good news with all this is that you’re getting some good time on your bike. I hope you’re enjoying it
..belts for the ebikes and commuter bikes , silent, no maintenance, loooong lasting, reliable......😍😍
But for those wanting to ride their ebikes without using the motor assistance all the time, efficiency is key, and than derailleur gears come into play. And thus, they also expand the autonomy while riding with motor assistance.
I have a new Nevo 3 GT with Rohloff, how easy is it to remove and refit the rear wheel and is this something I can do myself?
On a riese &muller supercharger enviolo you have the choice between 22 and 28 teeth chainring i believe, but what do you think is a good chainring at the front and the back to ride in the mountains, not to go for speed, but to ride with luggage to do a week trip in the mountains…greetings, Bart