Well the audio is getting better but i think it was cliping a bit still. is that the Rode wireless go or go2 ? i guess you wend with custom dead cat if its the wireless go since that models deadcat did not stay on that good. what setup are you using when you record? you might want to lower the input gain just a tad. Been dreaming of a pinion beltdriven bike for a while :D it looks so nice. but i have to put in some more hours and years until i can buy a bike for over 2000€ first i need to do my recovery after a open heart surgery.
@@kamratdennis the audio has small problem indeed but that is not the mistake 😁. It is wireless go. I wish I had the go 2. Thr gain is the lowest , also I have very loud voice 😅. I hope your recovery goes fast 😊🙏
In Europe, internal gears are a thing. And also, there is a type of bicycle which has a fully closed chain protector box. These come close to a belt drive in longevity because you don't get any dirt on your chain at all. When you mentioned light weight, I had mixed emotions. The belt itself is much lighter than the chain, of course. But you need the gearbox, which is usually heavier than a derailleur set. What you did not mention in that section, is that you don't feel any chain slacking vibration under your foot. It's hard to imagine that you feel your chain feeding back into the pedal, but once you've ridden the much lighter belt drive, you know what I mean. And belts are so comfortably silent. In the ecologic aspect, I'd like to add that we use about the same mass of lubricant through a chain life as we use as plastic on the belt. Additionally, the chain has to be manufactured and lasts only one half of a belt life in perfect conditions. And, in top, the lubricant gets spewed into the environment, whilst most of the belt is put to the trash when it's at the end of its life. So that's a little better for the environment, too.
Hi Peyman! Thank you for your feedback of great experience! I started with the belt 9 years ago (it's the older, narrower version that can potentially go off the rails although that never happened in the end). It equips 1 of my 2 travel bikes. I drove approx. 20 thousand km knowing that the bike was an almost new opportunity. For me, saving oil and cleaning products, not to mention the grease stains on bags and clothes that require more detergents and disposable gloves when doing maintenance on a chain, all of this pollutes enormously. As soon as I made the change, I noticed that with a belt, you gain in efficiency because there is not all this metal friction and wear = energy! On the climbs, we realize that it is easier with a belt. Finally, the total absence of noise, especially freewheeling at night to approach wildlife, is something very precious:)
Well, there is a better Option: A chain glider with a Pinion or Rohloff. The Belt however has a bit more deformation work done to it. Once you protect the chain from the elements it is a very potected thing. And easy to work with. On our travelbikes we have that system and never had any issues with the chain. However a chain shifting system will wear out way faster than a fixed chain system.
@@radekkuszyk the product is called chainglider. It is basically a housing for a chain, that fits snuggly around a single speed chain. Thus you don't have to worry about debris in your chain.
I would love to try belt drive but price level for belts and sprokets are insane. Industrial and automotive belts are few times cheaper and I really cant see any justification for that big difference.
these belts genuinely are more expensive to produce compared to older style machinery belts But they are still pretty marked up and overpriced because Gates kinda has the market cornered
Not really. Alee's videos are even more detailed: czcams.com/video/PhXTl7gApVA/video.html But it great to see 2 people I trust reaching much the same conclusion after serious real-world testing.
Glad to see you have reached the same conclusion as Alee. I don't think I'm ever going to be doing such epic rides as you two but I've been using gearboxes for years and like them so my next bike will have a belt if I can find a suitable one. I prefer to buy 2nd hand bikes for both cost and green reasons, but finding a small touring bike with a belt drive s/h is tricky. Belts are still uncommon. It's great to catch up on where you have got to. Ive not seen any of your vids since you got stuck with the Pandemic. So I have 2 years-worth to watch now!
Thanks for your report! For Globetrotters or Dirt track drivers I also see the benefit of a durable belt and enclosed gearbox. I bought a bicycle with belt drive for my wife, who has got problems with her knees and thus cannot bring high pedal power. For such a specific usecase, the deflection force of the beltdrive is significant versus a well greased or oiled chain. Easy to switch to chain though.
I have two bikes with belt drive now ( Priority Apolllo abd Trek District 4). I will never go back to chain. For me, its the convenience. No more cleaning greasy and dirty chains. And I save money going to the bike shops for tune ups.
i am not sure if i want that on my mountainbike but let me tell you... you sir got an interesting life thats for sure... maybe one day i also do these kinds of travels switching from the adrenaline side of cycling to the adventure spectrum.
That is positively, the most extreme realistic tests, I think you could put the two systems under. Bravo, loved it! I've never seen so much stuff on a bike. *visions of additional new storage options on my bike, dancing in my head, lol. I've got a rear pannier rack and 50L saddlebags and room on top like you, but wow, you've got some serious storage on there.
Hi, I'm riding a Tout Terrain Metropolitan with belt drive since 2011. And I had to change the belt after 25.000 km. For me it was the perfect decision. Wish you have a good ride.
Nice, very informative. Picked up an e-bike with a belt drive and the main selling point I heard was "you wont get oil on your upholstery(car)or furniture in the home"(folding bike) ha ha, glad iv'e been doing some research, belt drives are so much more.... btw mine is a "gates" hearing that brand puts a smile on my face. Great vid, -Cheers
Thanks here is a video of my comparison between Pinion and Rohloff, this video might be answering a part of yoir question 😊 czcams.com/video/Rg8wh5qlHlk/video.html
For shorter trip, like a few weeks or couple of months, I can live with chain. If I decide to do a very long trip, a year or more on the road, definitely go for the belt drive.
I like my chain and XT gears on the touring bike with bar end shifters. Very basic but reliable. I like the idea of the pinion gear box but for gravel tracks and cycle lanes I could not justify the cost versus the benefit. I appreciate that it’s perfect for round the world touring. Great video! Thank you.
Current belt drive systems are a sea change. Caveat is that belt drive systems have evolved Phenomenally over recent years. I think the flex and elasticity issues were mostly eliminated, if memory serves.
I'd choose a belt, if i could afford it. Unfortunately even if the belt itself is not that extreme in price, a hub gearbox is just way out of my league at the moment.
You are right of you consider Rohloff or Pinion. But Shimano Nexus or Alfine are much more affordable. However, Nexus 8 or Alfine 8 have 307% of gearing range, which could not be enough for hilly terrain Alfine 11 has 409%, which is OK.
nice and clear video, about the gates belt. and you don't get paid for it. I hope they will see it so that you get recognition for your work. beautiful really beautiful😅
Nice, I only just found your channel. I live in Cape Town. I recommend riding through the Cederberg mountains, North of here (if that isn't already your plan). All the best. Feel free to contact me if you need some local info.
I wish I had a friend like you man lol, I bet you know how to survive and work on your bike with all kind of tips. What you do looks amazing to do but I couldn't survive alone with my knowledge lol
Very interesting. As an auto mechanic having serviced belt and chain drives that have done probably done a combined 100 million kilometers the chain is by far superior in longevity of operation if you can keep it clean and lubricated by a similar factor of 3-5x. With the design of bikes and how long it takes to refill a tank on a car vs person though I can see why it would not be practical to run a internal gearbox plus heavier drive be it shaft or or chain and to have the extra components like a timing case to keep everything clean and lubricated.... I dare say with modern materials and machining though we will soon see a chain an encased chain or shaft drive soon enough that will be essentially maintenence free for 100,000km or more.
Chains are better in enclosed systems that keep the chain lubricated well and clean. The disadvantage to an enclosed chain is increased size and weight, and in the case of a bicycle, very difficult or even impossible on some designs as many bikes route the chain around the frame so the frame either needs to be welded around the enclosed chaincase or the chaincase needs to be assembled from separate parts. This problem is also present with most belt drive systems, except for the Veer Split Belt system. Either way, the main problem with belt drives on bikes is the price, with the previously mentioned Veer kit starting at $350 and a replacement belt costing $100. While replacing the drivetrain components on a derailleur bike might add up to somewhere near the price and the chain at least needs to be replaced quite a bit more often that a belt, than maybe over enough time it's worth it. For a bike that already has an internally geared hub or a gearbox and has a chain drive, a belt drive system likely wouldn't be any cheaper as the chain lasts longer as it is always kept in a straight line and wider, stronger chains are used because there is no need to fit in many gears side by side like on a derailleur cassette. And if you're starting out with a derailleur bike and want to convert it to belt drive, you'll need to get a new rear wheel with an internally geared hub or replace the hub on the already existing wheel, either of which costing extra money.
The problem as briefly mentioned in the video is rigidity. A shaft drive system needs to be seriously well secured and that weight/complexity on a bicycle isn't desirable for efficiency losses.
Chain on bike wears quickly because it's exposed to external contaminants like water, salt, sand etc. Zero friction cycling has done extensive testing on this. How different chain lubes affect chain longetivity in different riding conditions. Waxing the chain can actually prolong its life about 3-5x of a normal wet lube
Very cool in the city, chains are available everywhere, maintenance is master around the world, in the African continent I could put together two used chains before I would wait for a belt replacement.
Pinion gearbox system seems to weigh 2.5 pounds more than XT triple 9 speed chain set which is just over a bag of sugar in the UK at 2.2lb. The difference between belt weight or chain is irrelevant when you look at the overall weight difference. Many thanks great video as always!
There's a huge difference in how many gears overall you can achieve with a 9sp triple vs an integrated gearbox for a belt. The chain easily surpasses the belt weight ratio in that regard. If you were to compare apples to apples then you would have used an xt 9sp 1x crank vs the belt drive. You also wouldn't need to just be limited to a single group set. The integrated gearbox has limited graduations so you can easily use multiple combinations of chain based hardware to match the gearbox. Cheaper, lighter etc etc.
@@alicenchainrings1326 Not really. All you'd ever need to do to the gearbox is change the oil every 6k miles which is super easy. It's vastly easier than changing the hydrologic brake fluid which is a standard on bikes at this price point.
I am curious why you don't use a chain (belt) enclosure. That would fully enclose your belt so it's protected from mud, sand, branches, etc, making maintenance even less necessary! It would also protect your pants from getting caught between the belt and sprockets, and keep your pants/clothing cleaner. With a belt drive, you have a unique opportunity to use an enclosure because you have a straight belt line, unlike derailleurs where the chain moves sideways. A belt enclosure would make your touring bike even more robust. Thank you for your honest and unbiased video. Most reviews on CZcams are commercial in nature and quite useless.
Hi, first time I've seen your channel and I subscribed immediately. I was wondering: what brand are those mountain bikes with belt drive you've shown in this video?
About your complaint about the outdoor industry making things lighter but less durable: yes, I agree! I personally still really like a light bike though, so I make my bikes light by making sure there's nothing on it I don't need. My bikes are relatively light but very durable, because I just make them very minimalist. Personally I believe that's the best way to make a bike lighter.
Chains are $20 a pop and last reasonably long when regularly cleaned. I'll admit, if I cycled around the world the belt drive system would no doubt be superior, but I use my bike to commute to work and go on weekend joyrides. The cleaning is more work, but I only spent $300 on my bike second hand. I just don't think belt drive systems are a good value unless you fit a certain niche.
@@11marcian mine did costs around 1200$ but I use it since 10 years.... Yea no heavy driver. First chain. The belt is slowly looking through the tire 😂. But an E-Bike this class is 2 times heavier and easy over 2500$
Hi, Peyman a little late in a reply but if you can manage it ???what chainring ___Sprocket combination do you use. Great video as usual very imformative
Well yeah the problem is even I'm not live in backwater country, to get rohloff or even pinion bike is amazingly difficult, not to mention the price and the import tax. 🤦
Belt is definitely less maintenance. Chains will rust easily , especially near Salt water! And chains to get clogged with dirt. I always preferred belts on motorcycles. I have not tried a belt bicycle but I would definitely go for one if I was in the market for it. Belts are harder to install but they really last a long time and are very smooth. So I agree!!
I tour and commute with Gates carbon belt drive bike and they are revelation compared to chain drive derailleur bikes which are primitive and real PITA to keep running sweetly and quietly. The moment a drop of rain or mud falls on them they start to make an awful racket or lose all their lube, rust or just jam up sound like a noisy sewing machine. Gates belts are truly low maintenance and very durable with a very long lifespan. The Gates carbon belt on my bike is 6 years old and has covered about 50k km and still looks and performs like new. Not a single problem with it. Totally silent. The sprockets are also fine as well. What's not to like? Derailleurs and chains of course!
I've been riding with a Shimano Nexus 8 and Gates belt for maybe 4 years now, just as a weekend bike and work commuter. One thing worth noting is that belt tension is pretty important, and that setting it either requires use of a proper tension measuring tool (which I don't have) or use of the slightly dodgey Gates app which uses your phone microphone to detect the frequency of the belt as you "pluck" it, in the same way as you'd tune a guitar. Bizarrely my bike only has a threaded tension adjuster on one side of the rear axle, which makes setting tension whilst keeping the wheel straight very hard. Surely most bikes have these adjusters on both sides, like you'd find on a motorbike?
Cant agree more, i work at a bikeshop and love recommending the belt drive, but not one single brand is capable of delivering belt drive in significant time. The waiting times are that bad that customers switch to chain for their purchase… really sad
Seems like the lightweight belt is offset by the internal gearboxes, and ends up having just as much overall machining hours and tiny parts to break. Easier than derailleur maintenance, but belt and internal hub/Pinion gearbox parts are harder to get. Seems to be a total wash, to be honest. If you have the money to spend: yes, a new belt drive bike is awesome. If you don't: be happy with what you have. The Pinion box is several thousand dollars ... The belt-split frames are also thousands of dollars... We don't even have a wheelset, brakes, cockpit, bottom bracket, headset, cranks, pedals, or even the Gates Carbon Drive gearset. I mean - $12k isn't exactly a "super expensive" bike, compared to the BS full carbon bespoke road frames costing $30k+... But for ⅒ the price, you can build a truly amazing chain-drive bike, if you know what you're doing. I bought a bare frame to build a fatbike (Framed Minnesota 2.0), and ended up spending ½ of what it would have cost to buy the bike pre-built, then upgrade and customize. 14 months later, not a single trip to the bike shop
i also build a bike from a scrapyard frame. i actually just spend not more than 200€ for that. it is more friendly to the environment because of the recycling and also this bike last surprisingly long. i dont like it that everything must be specialized for belt drive like you say it is extremely expensive. also belts for industry machinery are extremely expensive too
@@anguismemes1666 Gates Carbon Drive belts are reasonable, and might cost equal or double the price of a chain... But to get a bike belt-drive happy is not a simple feat. I had a $350 full susp beater frame (KHS AM-2000) ready for belt conversion... Until I cracked the seat-stay tube 2" down, last year. 😭 At least it was a fun idea
Lemme one up you guys on the sustainability: built a commuting bike from literal trash that was lying around mine and a friend's workshops a couple weeks ago, it drives really similar to a fix-gear but has a rear hub brake (coaster brake?). Anyways it was built while I'm saving money to repair my MTB that was crashed into by a an electric scooter. Anyways English is not my first language so please excuse any mistakes and have fun riding your bikes
I would go with the hub gearbox and a chainglider. This leads to a similar protected drive system compared to the belt and it lasts about the same time as a belt. And you can get any chain replacement anywhere. Additionally you get less force onto your sprockets since the pinion will increase the torque on the front gear. Compared to a straight attach gear.
awesome video. even if the belt in itself isnt more sustinable than a chain due to the fact that its made out of rubber and carbon, concidering a Rohloff or Kindernay gearhub is preadjusted and will outlast most people, and you need no bearadjust,enttools and so on, I think its the most ecofriendly option. And you get more time riding your bike as a bonus:)
Nowadays bikes come mostly with 1 X 12 drive trains. My experience is the chain and cluster doesn't last long, so IMHO pinion with belt has better as it is lower waste
Definitely belt drivetrain is better as you concluded, I need to save to buy a belt drivetrain touring bike because I have big plans! Right now I’m touring with what I have, a 1993, 7 speed , Japanese Nishiki Meridian, chromoly steel and got a smaller chain ring and a bigger cassette to get 20.5 gear inches, I have crossed Central America and now doing the Colombian Andes, almost 4,000km. So getting that proper bike should not stop you from embarking in that adventure, I feel my bike is not ideal because of the geometry and want disc brakes and wider tires but I haven’t had any problem so far. Cheers Payman! Say hello to Matilda, hope she is doing better now, we miss her!
Hi, well said 🙌🏼, never let the equipments to stop you from your adventures, you don't always need the best of the best. it is important to go out and live it!
Peyman, thanks for the review! I’m wondering how many teeth your front and rear sprocket are? As heavily loaded as you are, I’m wondering these details of your drivetrain. I know you’re a strong guy but I’m curious if you are geared more for climbing. Thanks!
i have a cube hybrid bicycle with bosch chain driven motor, for two years did no maintenance at all, my friend has specialized hybrid with belt, he is on his third motor in one year
Your friend most probably have a Brose middrive motor that are often used in Specialized ebikes. Within the motor itself is a belt that often tears up. It has nothing to do with the Gates carbon drivetrain, and there isn't any chain inside the Bosch motor itself as well. You will find Bosch motors or any other motor driving a chain on a bike, and find the same Bosch or other motor driving a belt on another bike. Inside a Bosch motor you will find only gears on the mechanical part of it, whereas in Brose motors you will find gears and a belt inside as well, which can be seen as the Achiles heel of the motor. On the flipside, the belt causes the Brose motors to be way less noisy as its competitors in the middrive section and having less friction, so that you feel less resistence when you ride the ebike without the motor support.
I have a belt drive. I do find it starts squeaking quickly. I need to clean and grease it 2 or 3 times a week, coz I find the noise irritating. Furthermore I've had issues with the eccentric bracket, where it got too lose and water and dirt got inside. So make sure it's tight and check regularly. Thirdly you really need to know all the ins and outs of the system, since most bicycle repair shops in the world don't. It was a steep learning curve for me and I had a lot of issues, which cost me a lot of time. In hindsight a chain would have been better for a gear noob like me, but the more I learn, the better it gets. Make sure you can at least completely take the bike apart and clean/replace all components before you leave!
That's a fantastic review. You got a brain for the important things. Absolutely no bull, just everything you need to know. Let me know when you start reviewing off-road cars lol.
I have gone back to chain after breaking belts once a week I ride 250 miles a day and my chain has gone just over 18,000 miles as of now have not cleaned it or done any maintenance in the chain the belt I was cleaning it once a day to keep it going I think I will get 25,000 miles out of the chain on my bike
Hot waxing chains helps them stay clean. I think a full chainguards, like the Dutch use on their grandma bikes, would keep a chain from having to be cleaned. They need to make one that will work with derailleurs.
I have made a very small mistake while recording this video, let me know if you did notice it!
Greeting from Uganda-Tanzania border crossing! 😊
Well the audio is getting better but i think it was cliping a bit still. is that the Rode wireless go or go2 ? i guess you wend with custom dead cat if its the wireless go since that models deadcat did not stay on that good. what setup are you using when you record? you might want to lower the input gain just a tad. Been dreaming of a pinion beltdriven bike for a while :D it looks so nice. but i have to put in some more hours and years until i can buy a bike for over 2000€ first i need to do my recovery after a open heart surgery.
Shimano Alfine or as you said it "Alpha Line" 😉
@@kamratdennis the audio has small problem indeed but that is not the mistake 😁. It is wireless go. I wish I had the go 2. Thr gain is the lowest , also I have very loud voice 😅. I hope your recovery goes fast 😊🙏
Spraying so much silicone spray and your disc looked exposed hahaha
You went from no. 10 to no. 10, where as you should have said no. 11.
same Belt-Setup, same bike. Absolutely happy since 15'000 km. I completely agree with him.
🙌
Please send a link to but belt and caset
In Europe, internal gears are a thing. And also, there is a type of bicycle which has a fully closed chain protector box. These come close to a belt drive in longevity because you don't get any dirt on your chain at all.
When you mentioned light weight, I had mixed emotions. The belt itself is much lighter than the chain, of course. But you need the gearbox, which is usually heavier than a derailleur set. What you did not mention in that section, is that you don't feel any chain slacking vibration under your foot. It's hard to imagine that you feel your chain feeding back into the pedal, but once you've ridden the much lighter belt drive, you know what I mean. And belts are so comfortably silent.
In the ecologic aspect, I'd like to add that we use about the same mass of lubricant through a chain life as we use as plastic on the belt. Additionally, the chain has to be manufactured and lasts only one half of a belt life in perfect conditions. And, in top, the lubricant gets spewed into the environment, whilst most of the belt is put to the trash when it's at the end of its life. So that's a little better for the environment, too.
Hi Peyman! Thank you for your feedback of great experience! I started with the belt 9 years ago (it's the older, narrower version that can potentially go off the rails although that never happened in the end). It equips 1 of my 2 travel bikes. I drove approx. 20 thousand km knowing that the bike was an almost new opportunity. For me, saving oil and cleaning products, not to mention the grease stains on bags and clothes that require more detergents and disposable gloves when doing maintenance on a chain, all of this pollutes enormously. As soon as I made the change, I noticed that with a belt, you gain in efficiency because there is not all this metal friction and wear = energy! On the climbs, we realize that it is easier with a belt. Finally, the total absence of noise, especially freewheeling at night to approach wildlife, is something very precious:)
Hi Didier, thanks for sharing your experience. Indeed the Belt is a fantastic innovation in bike industry. It is too good 😁
Well, there is a better Option:
A chain glider with a Pinion or Rohloff.
The Belt however has a bit more deformation work done to it.
Once you protect the chain from the elements it is a very potected thing. And easy to work with. On our travelbikes we have that system and never had any issues with the chain.
However a chain shifting system will wear out way faster than a fixed chain system.
@@theonly5001 Chain glider? What do you mean? 🤔
@@radekkuszyk the product is called chainglider. It is basically a housing for a chain, that fits snuggly around a single speed chain. Thus you don't have to worry about debris in your chain.
@Felix Leipnitz O yes, I know it 🙂. Although it covers whole chain, some dust penetrates it quite easly. It makes chain service less rare.
Good to see you doing this stuff, great presentation and impartial analysis, thank you sir 🙏🏽
Top ! It's a very good thing to see someone who knows what he's talking about, from experience. Thank you and have a good trip !
Most welcome 😊
I would love to try belt drive but price level for belts and sprokets are insane. Industrial and automotive belts are few times cheaper and I really cant see any justification for that big difference.
these belts genuinely are more expensive to produce compared to older style machinery belts But they are still pretty marked up and overpriced because Gates kinda has the market cornered
It's called economies of scale. If every bicycle had belts they'd be cheaper, but for now it's very low volume and this high priced
and these rohloff speedhubs are insanely expensive too
Maybe in the future, this will get cloned and sold at a cheaper price by a certain country.
@@anguismemes1666 Shimano makes nice hubs for less. If you're doing trips like this you want the best.
This guy has made a great contribution to all of mankind. Just saying
Wow! Probably the most comprehensive review of the belt drive system. Keep doing what you’re doing. Thank you.
Not really. Alee's videos are even more detailed: czcams.com/video/PhXTl7gApVA/video.html
But it great to see 2 people I trust reaching much the same conclusion after serious real-world testing.
Glad to see you have reached the same conclusion as Alee. I don't think I'm ever going to be doing such epic rides as you two but I've been using gearboxes for years and like them so my next bike will have a belt if I can find a suitable one. I prefer to buy 2nd hand bikes for both cost and green reasons, but finding a small touring bike with a belt drive s/h is tricky. Belts are still uncommon.
It's great to catch up on where you have got to. Ive not seen any of your vids since you got stuck with the Pandemic. So I have 2 years-worth to watch now!
У меня старый велосипед Бриджстоун на ремне и планетарке,3 скорости,ему уже 40 лет и до сих пор родной ремень)
I really missed you, i would have pushed you all the way to Tanzania. Enjoy the adventure brother. With love from Uganda. #mukigabiketraveler
Thanks for your report!
For Globetrotters or Dirt track drivers I also see the benefit of a durable belt and enclosed gearbox.
I bought a bicycle with belt drive for my wife, who has got problems with her knees and thus cannot bring high pedal power.
For such a specific usecase, the deflection force of the beltdrive is significant versus a well greased or oiled chain.
Easy to switch to chain though.
The most informative, concise video I've seen. Awsome
Excellent opinions. Keep enjoying your adventures, my friend.
Thanks for the profound analysis ;) Good luck on your journey.
I have two bikes with belt drive now ( Priority Apolllo abd Trek District 4). I will never go back to chain. For me, its the convenience. No more cleaning greasy and dirty chains. And I save money going to the bike shops for tune ups.
i am not sure if i want that on my mountainbike but let me tell you... you sir got an interesting life thats for sure... maybe one day i also do these kinds of travels switching from the adrenaline side of cycling to the adventure spectrum.
🙏😊
EXCELLENT!
Thank you for the real WORLD test!
Hi - great video !! I have a Bulls ebike with a belt drive and I love it.
Keep up the good work 👍
🙏🏼
That is positively, the most extreme realistic tests, I think you could put the two systems under. Bravo, loved it! I've never seen so much stuff on a bike. *visions of additional new storage options on my bike, dancing in my head, lol. I've got a rear pannier rack and 50L saddlebags and room on top like you, but wow, you've got some serious storage on there.
Thanks 🙏, indeed recording and editing equipments are heavy 😅
@@NomadsTrails I bet and lithium batteries aren't exactly light either.
@@MrBilld75 and harddrives and cameras and so on... but I see it as good training and helping my legs to get stronger. So I don't complain about it 😁🙌
Hi, I'm riding a Tout Terrain Metropolitan with belt drive since 2011. And I had to change the belt after 25.000 km. For me it was the perfect decision. Wish you have a good ride.
Glad to hear you like it. Thanks 🙏
Thanks Peyman, great video, very informative!
Ich danke dir für ein ausführliches Video. Klasse gemacht.
Nice, very informative. Picked up an e-bike with a belt drive and the main selling point I heard was "you wont get oil on your upholstery(car)or furniture in the home"(folding bike) ha ha, glad iv'e been doing some research, belt drives are so much more.... btw mine is a "gates" hearing that brand puts a smile on my face. Great vid, -Cheers
Thanks, indeed for me the durability is the main point 💪
Perfect guide for choosing a belt system. Красавчик!
Your cycling adventures are epic!
Nice to see your exploits again. You might address the durability and any maintenance of internal gearboxes sometime. Hope ya'll are both well..
Thanks here is a video of my comparison between Pinion and Rohloff, this video might be answering a part of yoir question 😊
czcams.com/video/Rg8wh5qlHlk/video.html
I admire your tenacity .
You are amazing, I admire that you are a couple that makes any stop, may God continue to bless you, hugs Edvaldo, Brazil. 05/24/2022
Great review, thank you bro and safe travels. :)
🙏
Pretty cool! Thanks for sharing
Great review of the belt drive train. An eye opener indeed. A bit pricey for a layman like me but doable.
🙏🏼
Well on my 90-year-old bicycle with 2sets of chains that still looks great and works well
For shorter trip, like a few weeks or couple of months, I can live with chain. If I decide to do a very long trip, a year or more on the road, definitely go for the belt drive.
For sure chain dose the job but the belt is incredibly convenient and long lasting 😊
I like my chain and XT gears on the touring bike with bar end shifters. Very basic but reliable. I like the idea of the pinion gear box but for gravel tracks and cycle lanes I could not justify the cost versus the benefit. I appreciate that it’s perfect for round the world touring. Great video! Thank you.
Great video man ! thanks
Odlican video,odlicno rečeno svaka cast,sta li je sledece sto ce izmisliti😃✌️✌️
Subbed. Great video, very informitive.
Current belt drive systems are a sea change.
Caveat is that belt drive systems have evolved Phenomenally over recent years. I think the flex and elasticity issues were mostly eliminated, if memory serves.
I'd choose a belt, if i could afford it. Unfortunately even if the belt itself is not that extreme in price, a hub gearbox is just way out of my league at the moment.
You are right of you consider Rohloff or Pinion. But Shimano Nexus or Alfine are much more affordable. However, Nexus 8 or Alfine 8 have 307% of gearing range, which could not be enough for hilly terrain Alfine 11 has 409%, which is OK.
I love to bicycle. See a lot more than in a car specially when the traffic isn’t bad. Not going to attempt cycling around the world though. Thanks
nice and clear video, about the gates belt. and you don't get paid for it. I hope they will see it so that you get recognition for your work. beautiful really beautiful😅
Nice, I only just found your channel.
I live in Cape Town. I recommend riding through the Cederberg mountains, North of here (if that isn't already your plan).
All the best.
Feel free to contact me if you need some local info.
I wish I had a friend like you man lol, I bet you know how to survive and work on your bike with all kind of tips. What you do looks amazing to do but I couldn't survive alone with my knowledge lol
Sensacional!!! Esse é o melhor sistema transmissão.
Very interesting. As an auto mechanic having serviced belt and chain drives that have done probably done a combined 100 million kilometers the chain is by far superior in longevity of operation if you can keep it clean and lubricated by a similar factor of 3-5x. With the design of bikes and how long it takes to refill a tank on a car vs person though I can see why it would not be practical to run a internal gearbox plus heavier drive be it shaft or or chain and to have the extra components like a timing case to keep everything clean and lubricated.... I dare say with modern materials and machining though we will soon see a chain an encased chain or shaft drive soon enough that will be essentially maintenence free for 100,000km or more.
Chains are better in enclosed systems that keep the chain lubricated well and clean. The disadvantage to an enclosed chain is increased size and weight, and in the case of a bicycle, very difficult or even impossible on some designs as many bikes route the chain around the frame so the frame either needs to be welded around the enclosed chaincase or the chaincase needs to be assembled from separate parts. This problem is also present with most belt drive systems, except for the Veer Split Belt system. Either way, the main problem with belt drives on bikes is the price, with the previously mentioned Veer kit starting at $350 and a replacement belt costing $100. While replacing the drivetrain components on a derailleur bike might add up to somewhere near the price and the chain at least needs to be replaced quite a bit more often that a belt, than maybe over enough time it's worth it. For a bike that already has an internally geared hub or a gearbox and has a chain drive, a belt drive system likely wouldn't be any cheaper as the chain lasts longer as it is always kept in a straight line and wider, stronger chains are used because there is no need to fit in many gears side by side like on a derailleur cassette. And if you're starting out with a derailleur bike and want to convert it to belt drive, you'll need to get a new rear wheel with an internally geared hub or replace the hub on the already existing wheel, either of which costing extra money.
The problem as briefly mentioned in the video is rigidity. A shaft drive system needs to be seriously well secured and that weight/complexity on a bicycle isn't desirable for efficiency losses.
Chain on bike wears quickly because it's exposed to external contaminants like water, salt, sand etc. Zero friction cycling has done extensive testing on this. How different chain lubes affect chain longetivity in different riding conditions. Waxing the chain can actually prolong its life about 3-5x of a normal wet lube
Very cool in the city, chains are available everywhere, maintenance is master around the world, in the African continent I could put together two used chains before I would wait for a belt replacement.
Thank you this was very informative.
Bicycles with belts in Uganda are very hard to find even spare parts but I would really want to own one. Much love
I wish I could trip like you are. But I am very very happy that you get to do it godbless
Well presented.
Thank you.
Very well argument, good review, one more sub, when you visit Portugal?
U r a brave heart....adventure lover also bicycle lover
Pinion gearbox system seems to weigh 2.5 pounds more than XT triple 9 speed chain set which is just over a bag of sugar in the UK at 2.2lb. The difference between belt weight or chain is irrelevant when you look at the overall weight difference. Many thanks great video as always!
🙏🏼
There's a huge difference in how many gears overall you can achieve with a 9sp triple vs an integrated gearbox for a belt.
The chain easily surpasses the belt weight ratio in that regard.
If you were to compare apples to apples then you would have used an xt 9sp 1x crank vs the belt drive. You also wouldn't need to just be limited to a single group set. The integrated gearbox has limited graduations so you can easily use multiple combinations of chain based hardware to match the gearbox. Cheaper, lighter etc etc.
That 600%+ range is a consideration too.
@@obliviondio also that gear box is probably a nightmare to work on for the home mechanic
@@alicenchainrings1326
Not really. All you'd ever need to do to the gearbox is change the oil every 6k miles which is super easy. It's vastly easier than changing the hydrologic brake fluid which is a standard on bikes at this price point.
My surprise is I understand your English!
I'm French!
Good advice in your video!
Just bought en ebike with belt drive. Sooo nice. Can recommend.
I totally agree. My new Priority 600X with Pinion gearbox with Gates belt drive is awesome. All of my other chain drive bikes are jealous.
I got my priority 600x about a month ago, absolutely love it! Quiet and clean.
I am curious why you don't use a chain (belt) enclosure. That would fully enclose your belt so it's protected from mud, sand, branches, etc, making maintenance even less necessary! It would also protect your pants from getting caught between the belt and sprockets, and keep your pants/clothing cleaner. With a belt drive, you have a unique opportunity to use an enclosure because you have a straight belt line, unlike derailleurs where the chain moves sideways. A belt enclosure would make your touring bike even more robust. Thank you for your honest and unbiased video. Most reviews on CZcams are commercial in nature and quite useless.
Really informative.
you are an inspiration ❤❤
I saw you on the video of "Lake"
Hi, first time I've seen your channel and I subscribed immediately.
I was wondering: what brand are those mountain bikes with belt drive you've shown in this video?
Brilliant, thanks.
Thank you! Great video
Most welcome 😊
About your complaint about the outdoor industry making things lighter but less durable: yes, I agree!
I personally still really like a light bike though, so I make my bikes light by making sure there's nothing on it I don't need. My bikes are relatively light but very durable, because I just make them very minimalist. Personally I believe that's the best way to make a bike lighter.
Chains are $20 a pop and last reasonably long when regularly cleaned. I'll admit, if I cycled around the world the belt drive system would no doubt be superior, but I use my bike to commute to work and go on weekend joyrides. The cleaning is more work, but I only spent $300 on my bike second hand. I just don't think belt drive systems are a good value unless you fit a certain niche.
Only 300$? Its like 1500PLN its huge amount of money.
@@11marcian mine did costs around 1200$ but I use it since 10 years.... Yea no heavy driver. First chain. The belt is slowly looking through the tire 😂. But an E-Bike this class is 2 times heavier and easy over 2500$
@@11marcian if that's alot of money, then you've got bigger problems...
@@murrijuana2842 mam idk where you are from, but here in Poland we are all poor. I and my family drive one bicycle. We call it pierogowe zawody.
@@11marcian I'm in America, lot of people have money but almost everyone is lonely and unhappy.
Thank you for sharing!
I like the belt drive but in our place its hard to find belt in the bike shop
Great video thank you
thanks for sharing your precious experiences.
How many gears does your hub have?
And were you comfortable going up hills?
Hi, Peyman a little late in a reply but if you can manage it ???what chainring ___Sprocket combination do you use. Great video as usual very imformative
LOVE IT!
what is your current bike specifications? Thanks
Thanks. Here you can read about my current bike: tout-terrain.de/de/die-produkte/fahrraeder/expedition/silkroad/1332/silkroad-xplore-ii-26?c=199
Informative video.
What do you think about your Silkroad? Have you ever broken a spoke?
this guy is so badass it's just mindblowing
Well yeah the problem is even I'm not live in backwater country, to get rohloff or even pinion bike is amazingly difficult, not to mention the price and the import tax. 🤦
thanks for the info bro
Belt is definitely less maintenance. Chains will rust easily , especially near Salt water! And chains to get clogged with dirt. I always preferred belts on motorcycles. I have not tried a belt bicycle but I would definitely go for one if I was in the market for it. Belts are harder to install but they really last a long time and are very smooth. So I agree!!
I tour and commute with Gates carbon belt drive bike and they are revelation compared to chain drive derailleur bikes which are primitive and real PITA to keep running sweetly and quietly. The moment a drop of rain or mud falls on them they start to make an awful racket or lose all their lube, rust or just jam up sound like a noisy sewing machine. Gates belts are truly low maintenance and very durable with a very long lifespan. The Gates carbon belt on my bike is 6 years old and has covered about 50k km and still looks and performs like new. Not a single problem with it. Totally silent. The sprockets are also fine as well. What's not to like? Derailleurs and chains of course!
Indeed Alex, the Blet drivetrain is a big improvement 🙌🏼
Hey i would love to see you check out the fish in Lake malawi!
I often wondered why more motorcycles don't use belts. They seem like they could/should be better.
belts can withstand only human torque, not motor's
I've been riding with a Shimano Nexus 8 and Gates belt for maybe 4 years now, just as a weekend bike and work commuter. One thing worth noting is that belt tension is pretty important, and that setting it either requires use of a proper tension measuring tool (which I don't have) or use of the slightly dodgey Gates app which uses your phone microphone to detect the frequency of the belt as you "pluck" it, in the same way as you'd tune a guitar. Bizarrely my bike only has a threaded tension adjuster on one side of the rear axle, which makes setting tension whilst keeping the wheel straight very hard. Surely most bikes have these adjusters on both sides, like you'd find on a motorbike?
Yes, I haven't seen a one-sided adjustment on any bike. It sounds a bit "cost effective"...
Maybe your bike has an eccentric bottom bracket to adjust the tension?
Hi, great video! What is that bag on your seat post? Can’t wait for the next one! Cheers
Thanks 😊, you mean the small bag on the top tube? That is from Ortlieb.
@@NomadsTrails yes the small one.
@@extramediumyt3949 It called CookPit pack from Ortlieb
@@NomadsTrails thank you!!
Cant agree more, i work at a bikeshop and love recommending the belt drive, but not one single brand is capable of delivering belt drive in significant time. The waiting times are that bad that customers switch to chain for their purchase… really sad
Seems like the lightweight belt is offset by the internal gearboxes, and ends up having just as much overall machining hours and tiny parts to break. Easier than derailleur maintenance, but belt and internal hub/Pinion gearbox parts are harder to get. Seems to be a total wash, to be honest.
If you have the money to spend: yes, a new belt drive bike is awesome.
If you don't: be happy with what you have.
The Pinion box is several thousand dollars ... The belt-split frames are also thousands of dollars... We don't even have a wheelset, brakes, cockpit, bottom bracket, headset, cranks, pedals, or even the Gates Carbon Drive gearset. I mean - $12k isn't exactly a "super expensive" bike, compared to the BS full carbon bespoke road frames costing $30k+... But for ⅒ the price, you can build a truly amazing chain-drive bike, if you know what you're doing.
I bought a bare frame to build a fatbike (Framed Minnesota 2.0), and ended up spending ½ of what it would have cost to buy the bike pre-built, then upgrade and customize. 14 months later, not a single trip to the bike shop
i also build a bike from a scrapyard frame. i actually just spend not more than 200€ for that. it is more friendly to the environment because of the recycling and also this bike last surprisingly long. i dont like it that everything must be specialized for belt drive like you say it is extremely expensive. also belts for industry machinery are extremely expensive too
@@anguismemes1666 Gates Carbon Drive belts are reasonable, and might cost equal or double the price of a chain... But to get a bike belt-drive happy is not a simple feat. I had a $350 full susp beater frame (KHS AM-2000) ready for belt conversion... Until I cracked the seat-stay tube 2" down, last year. 😭 At least it was a fun idea
@@Karl_Kampfwagen what chains do you buy?
Lemme one up you guys on the sustainability: built a commuting bike from literal trash that was lying around mine and a friend's workshops a couple weeks ago, it drives really similar to a fix-gear but has a rear hub brake (coaster brake?). Anyways it was built while I'm saving money to repair my MTB that was crashed into by a an electric scooter. Anyways English is not my first language so please excuse any mistakes and have fun riding your bikes
I would go with the hub gearbox and a chainglider. This leads to a similar protected drive system compared to the belt and it lasts about the same time as a belt. And you can get any chain replacement anywhere.
Additionally you get less force onto your sprockets since the pinion will increase the torque on the front gear. Compared to a straight attach gear.
Has anyone the situation when nexus 8 caused damage to dropouts (literally pressed into them)? How did you solve such a problem?
awesome video. even if the belt in itself isnt more sustinable than a chain due to the fact that its made out of rubber and carbon, concidering a Rohloff or Kindernay gearhub is preadjusted and will outlast most people, and you need no bearadjust,enttools and so on, I think its the most ecofriendly option. And you get more time riding your bike as a bonus:)
Nowadays bikes come mostly with 1 X 12 drive trains. My experience is the chain and cluster doesn't last long, so IMHO pinion with belt has better as it is lower waste
Definitely belt drivetrain is better as you concluded, I need to save to buy a belt drivetrain touring bike because I have big plans! Right now I’m touring with what I have, a 1993, 7 speed , Japanese Nishiki Meridian, chromoly steel and got a smaller chain ring and a bigger cassette to get 20.5 gear inches, I have crossed Central America and now doing the Colombian Andes, almost 4,000km. So getting that proper bike should not stop you from embarking in that adventure, I feel my bike is not ideal because of the geometry and want disc brakes and wider tires but I haven’t had any problem so far.
Cheers Payman! Say hello to Matilda, hope she is doing better now, we miss her!
Hi, well said 🙌🏼, never let the equipments to stop you from your adventures, you don't always need the best of the best. it is important to go out and live it!
Peyman, thanks for the review! I’m wondering how many teeth your front and rear sprocket are? As heavily loaded as you are, I’m wondering these details of your drivetrain. I know you’re a strong guy but I’m curious if you are geared more for climbing. Thanks!
Hi Mark, Most welcome, front sprocket 39T and rear 32T :)
i have a cube hybrid bicycle with bosch chain driven motor, for two years did no maintenance at all, my friend has specialized hybrid with belt, he is on his third motor in one year
Your friend most probably have a Brose middrive motor that are often used in Specialized ebikes. Within the motor itself is a belt that often tears up. It has nothing to do with the Gates carbon drivetrain, and there isn't any chain inside the Bosch motor itself as well. You will find Bosch motors or any other motor driving a chain on a bike, and find the same Bosch or other motor driving a belt on another bike. Inside a Bosch motor you will find only gears on the mechanical part of it, whereas in Brose motors you will find gears and a belt inside as well, which can be seen as the Achiles heel of the motor. On the flipside, the belt causes the Brose motors to be way less noisy as its competitors in the middrive section and having less friction, so that you feel less resistence when you ride the ebike without the motor support.
I didn't even know there were bikes with belts until I saw this video
Hi. I'm a big fan. Is cycling around or across Japan in your future plans?
I have a belt drive. I do find it starts squeaking quickly. I need to clean and grease it 2 or 3 times a week, coz I find the noise irritating. Furthermore I've had issues with the eccentric bracket, where it got too lose and water and dirt got inside. So make sure it's tight and check regularly. Thirdly you really need to know all the ins and outs of the system, since most bicycle repair shops in the world don't. It was a steep learning curve for me and I had a lot of issues, which cost me a lot of time. In hindsight a chain would have been better for a gear noob like me, but the more I learn, the better it gets. Make sure you can at least completely take the bike apart and clean/replace all components before you leave!
Belts don't need lubrication. The Gates manual explicitly tells you not to oil the belt.
2:07 : How to prevent curious people from touching and twisting the belt in your absence?
get a suntour ncx as a suspension seatpost instead of the canecreek, it's a bit heavier but much better
thanks for suggestions, never tested this, but maybe in the future. so far been very happy with CaneCreek.
@@NomadsTrails the bushings wore down pretty quickly on the ones I had in the past.
Phooey. There's zero post open on my bikes.
Wonderful my friend have an amazing weekend!
Thanks, you too! 😊
Got a belt drive e bike as a commuter, its the best
That's a fantastic review. You got a brain for the important things. Absolutely no bull, just everything you need to know. Let me know when you start reviewing off-road cars lol.
Thank you! I think I will stick with bicycles 😁🙌
With over 6000 miles on my HaiBike (Bosch center drive) I'm looking forward to my next e bike being belt drive.
Keep us updated 😁🙌
i got a giant reign e+3 with normal chain and have almost 10k km down still with my first chain and the chain is still in good condition.
I have gone back to chain after breaking belts once a week I ride 250 miles a day and my chain has gone just over 18,000 miles as of now have not cleaned it or done any maintenance in the chain the belt I was cleaning it once a day to keep it going I think I will get 25,000 miles out of the chain on my bike
Very good video thanks.
Ps. You have nice flag on your bike
Hello from Finland
Kiitos! 🙌
Hot waxing chains helps them stay clean.
I think a full chainguards, like the Dutch use on their grandma bikes, would keep a chain from having to be cleaned.
They need to make one that will work with derailleurs.
Encasing "chain salad" gear system would require huge box.
And not straight chain lines would still wear and tear parts.
6 years ago I saw a Cube tour bike with a partial plastic guard on a 3x.