“And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.” (Isaiah 4:1, KJV) “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry [including polygyny], and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.” (1 Timothy 4:1-3, KJV)
This was the Roman's councils right here prophesied in this scripture bringing in the heretical changes to the Church...one of the things they changed was polygynous marriages and forced monogamy...
There are terrible marriages with one single wite… And polygamy has many advantages, especially in societies where poverty is rife and few men can afford to raise children properly, or where men die young due to war or harsh conditions. The bottom line is: polygamy was never considered a sin, and the definition of sin doesn’t change over time.
@@debrawehrly6900 And that is actually a good thing. Men should have to prove themselves to be worthy men, and be thoroughly vetted by the woman's father before obtaining a wife.
The two people should not be fighting one another on an equal level. That is unbiblical! Scripture clearly teaches that wives are to SUBMIT to their husbands! If they are fighting their husbands, they are not living in accord with Scriptural principals!
Yacham Edward Thank you Yacham! If there are other related topics you would like me to talk about let me know. I’ll give you a shoutout as well if I do a video you suggest.
These matter is ever contentious. It has never been exhaustively explained at any forum. Everyone is just speculating or giving their own opinions concerning the issue. However I personally believe the Bible has not outlawed polygamy.
@@philcorministries9041 in fairness sir, the phrase in the NT which says "husband of one wife" can also be just as correctly translated 2 other ways "husband of his first wife" and "husband of a wife", potentially meaning that it could be that only married men could be elders (which we know isn't true on account of paul for example) or that they couldn't of been divorced (a far more likely scenario as unlawful divorce is actually condemned in scripture, unlike polygyny, which is only ever permitted). there's no NEW commandment regarding polygyny in the entire new testament, so to assume paul is somehow giving a new law regarding it here, is highly unlikely, as the Lord never changes, and this would've expressly meant that people such as ABRAHAM the literal FATHER of israel (in the human sense, being the original seed bearer of the promise etc) would be disqualified from leadership in the NT church, as would jacob, david (a man described by the Lord as "after his own heart") and even moses for example, a highly unlikely scenario don't you think? That would mean that the Laws of moses would be being discussed in a church, that moses himself couldn't of been an elder in?..... even modern day scholars (who still for reasons that i have to honestly attribute to their worldly thinking, instead of Godly thinking, declare that polygyny isn't allowed anymore) find it highly unlikely that the phrase translated "husband of one wife" had anything to do with polygyny, and was regarding something else. Anyway, hope that was food for thought, God bless and keep you in all you do brother.
@@stevesmith7843 Thank you for your comment! Two thoughts- 1. Abram, if married to his half-sister, and Jacob if married to two sisters while both were alive, were both to be condemned if they lived under the law of Moses, (In the law both practices were call abomination), yet, since they before the law, while in the time of ignorance before the law they remained guiltless. The Lord does not change but He deals with us according to the revelation we have received. Moses allowed divorce but Jesus states that it was a concession due to the hardness of their hearts. So a change in what is allowed is not unprecedented, especially with regards to marriage. 2. I’m not sure that the phrase can be translated as ‘first wife’ since Greek, like English, distinguishes cardinal numbers from ordinals. In Greek an ordinal under ten takes the word ‘et’. It is not in any of the manuscripts of ‘husband of one wife’ in either of the letter to Titus or Timothy where Paul uses the phrase.
@@philcorministries9041 interesting points, and i wouldn't disagree with you either. Obviously the concession is made for divorce in the case of adultery, as Christ affirmed it. However in regards to the greek in the NT phrases, my understanding is the 3 LITERAL ways that it can be translated correctly are 1, "a wife man" 2, "a one wife man" 3, "a first wife man", this is according to scholars, of which i am not one unfortunately. God bless and keep you, and thanks for the reply.
@@philcorministries9041 Jacob's actions were not called abomination. There is a qualifier in Lev 18:18, which specifies that the prupose would be to cause a rivalry, which is never a good idea in polygyny, in the first place. Jacob however married Leah's sister, because that is who he wanted to begin with, and for whom he had labored for seven years. You are probably correct about the term "mia", but the literal translatioin does not read "husband" or "wife". The people of Crete and Ephesus, whom Titus and Timothy were appointing leaders from, were Roman, and while technically, Romans were monogamous, they had no issue whatsoever with having a mistress or frequenting temple prostitutes.
Jacob (Isreal) had 4 wives Leah, Rachel,Bilhah and Zilpah And they gave birth to the 12 tribes of isreal (sons that became the 12 tribes) Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin
The terms "bride" and "wife" are used in the scriptures in both a singular and plural forms. Christ's bride is made up of many members and God referred to the entire nation of Israel as his wife.
@@princedarius7224despite God clearly describing a polygynous relation when He speaks in Ezekiel people still say its a sin...like really...drives me nutz
God has/had 2 wives in Ezekiel 23: ohalah and ohalabah. Would God model sin? This alone should settle the question. According to Isaiah 4 it's for the benefit of women, not just so a man can have a big harem. With the kinsman-redeemer polygyny is commanded in most cases.
Agreeing with His disciples, Jessus promoted (in Mathew 19) that's better for a man to be alone, but *that's not for everyone (to be eunuchs).* Ap. Paul and his followers (Timothy, Titus...) we're following Christ *(staying and remaining allone)* but he had a hard life... in his time there were 2 schools: *Hillel* and *Shamai* and most pharisees were tempting Christ to see what school did He sustaining... Ap. Paul was CLEARLY acting strong against his flesh, and that's why all his advices were not agreable by all Christians from his time... Just reading 1 Corinthians chapter 5 and 6 (in spirit) we will see that there were many Corinthians who did NOT judged that young Corinthian who took *(as wife?)* the wife of his living *(and perhaps, poligin?)* father... Now, in 2 Corinthians chapter 2 and chapter 7, Ap. Paul let us understand that the adulterous corithian is forgiven and *the church who did NOT condemned him at the begining,* this church get closer to his understanding... agreeing that a woman is bounded by her's husband as long he is allive! Now... *we all know why did John the Baptist die, right?* He was righteous, and Irod did not had peace in his adulterous relation with the wife of Philip (his brother) because John was remembering him always that he cannot have her as wife *(as long her's husband, Philip was allive)* my brethrens... poliginy is NOT a sin, but divorcing and marrying again is, *as long the husband is allive!* NOW HERE IS THE QUESTION: *Is a MAN bounded by the law of His wife? (Can a woman be gealous on hers husband???)* Actually, that's *the new world order* issue struggling in our hearts! *THE OLD (divine) ORDER is vertical:* Jessus is the Head of the Man the Man is the Head of woman God is the Head of Jessus Christ... *THE NEW (not divine) horizontal ORDER is:* "there is NO GOD, Jessus was a human (like Mahomed) the woman is equal with the man (and with Jessus who was a human) do we make the difference ?!? THE NEW WORLD (dirty) ORDER is actually in our familly from long time, and our nations are perishing because disobediance... *that's why Isaiah chapter 4 verse 1* is happening already... *because the daughters of Sion are jessebrlic,emancipated and are not walking humble with God (like Christ did!)* - as we see those 7 churchees from the book of Revelation chapter 2 & 3... *Poliginy is actually " THE CURE" against emancipation and self proclamation !* may the Peace of the Son be uppon the Sons of Peace and over their houses Amen.
God bless and keep you brother, i can tell english isn't your first language, but in sentiment, it mirrors my own sentiment. May the spirit of our Lord bring you peace, and may his mighty hands hold you through the coming calamities.
@@stevesmith7843 Amen, Brother. May our heavenly Father keep you and your bellowed ones too, under His Grace! Amen. *(yes, am not an English speaker, but I am from Est, from Europe)*
Where in the old testament is monogamy encouraged? You should see the strife in monogamy looks like you haven't. More than 50% monogamous marriages fail! Its not working!
This is the best argument for Monogamy I have ever heard. One note if it is not a sin to have more then one wife then it is a sin to ban a christan from worship Because he has more then one. Because that would be forbidding marriage.
I'm only really looking at this because my wife abandoned our marriage. Refusing reconciliation or any consuling. I don't want to divorce her but it's kinda been thrust upon me. Soo am I forced to live alone at 32 years old all these years? I'm still open for reconciliation and am not pursuing relationships at this moment however I won't even consider dating unless marriage is an option.
James, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I would love to correspond with you directly rather than replying to you on this public forum. Please find me on facebook and inbox or message me there so that we can interact more in a private setting.
Himothy is right, Sin is transgression of the Law, the only Laws God ever made around polygyny, was that if you take another wife, you mustn't decrease your other wives food, clothing, or sexual rights, and also that you cannot marry 2 sisters simultaneously, due to their inherent rivalry. If your wife has separated from you, she should remain unmarried, otherwise she commits adultery. If at the point she commits adultery you wish to divorce her, you may, but it's entirely up to you and i pray you seek Gods wisdom always in those decisions. However brother your wife choosing to separate from you, doesn't mean that YOU are decreasing her food, clothing, or sexual rights, it means she's made a choice that she isn't willing to accept those things. I see no scriptural issue whatsoever with you taking another wife, or 5 should it be your desire to do so, as long as you obey Gods law.... just be sure not to commit fornication, as such is abhorrent to the Lord, once you're married, you both owe each other your sexual rights, and these cannot be withheld since your body belongs to her, and hers to you. As hard as it will be, try and find a genuinely Christian woman, who accepts scripture, and that you are her head, and authority. Pray to the Lord thy God for wisdom in all things, acknowledge him in all your ways, and he WILL make your paths straight. God bless and keep you brother, i hope i've been helpful.
@@stevesmith7843 I'm not making any immediate decisions as I am taking my time to do look for truth and do what's right. I'm exploring if remarriage etc rules are different for men and women
@@JamesWFisher22 a wise decision, as far as i'm aware they're a bit different, in that a woman cannot get a divorce, for any reason. The only time she's no longer bound to her husband is if he gets a divorce for adultery, or dies.
Please divorce that wife. Then take another wife. Explain to the new wife what happened. Explain to her that you, though divorced you still consider your divorced wife to be your wife. You don't believe in divorce and that you only divorced her to prevent her from coming back and causing chaos in your new marriage. Then go to your first wife, that is if you can get hold of her. Tell her that despite the divorce you still consider her to be your wife and that you will be happy if both of you can reconcile. Since you have taken another wife, if you reconcile she has to be at peace that she will be the senior wife. If she agrees to reconciliation, don't marry her again she may cause chaos. Just draft a will which will provide for her. It may be advisable that the three of you draft a joint will. If she refuses the reconciliation, then fine. Proceed with your life. But know that she is still your wife despite the divorce for what God has put together, no man can ever separate! However if you find that she is, or has been in a relationship, let the divorce stand. She has committed adultery and before God's eyes the divorce is valid.
The idea of only having more wives if everyone has a wife, is only good if a) All the men who wish to marry, can afford a wife b) All the men who wish to marry, are decent upstanding devout followers of Christ c) All the men who wish to marry have married. Understand the context of what Paul said in I Cor 7 regarding having more time to serve God, applies not to men who have one wife, but to men who have no wife whatsoever. Some men can choose not to hassle with married life of their own free will. A much better approach would be to not allow a man to marry until he has earned enough wealth to take care of however many wives he desires to have, and that might be at age 30 or 40, but there should not be any age difference restriction. There is no Scripture that says that a man has to marry a woman that is close to his age.
It was not in the context of being unable to fully devote to the Lord, that Paul wrote that elders, deacons, bishops, should be a one woman man. It was actually in context of women being saved through childbirth, that Paul wrote this to Timothy, and it was in context of being left at Crete to appoint leaders, that he wrote to Titus.
@@jncon8013 That is a silly and uninformed response. If I can show you one counterexample, where there is no more strife than might occur in monogamy, if completely refutes any claim that polygyny always results in strife. So these guys point to a few examples where disagreements took place, and use that to portray all polygynous marriages as a living hell. I beg to differ.
@@danieldeluca4936 I didn’t make that claim. Monogamous couples and polygynous couples both experience some degree of strife, as both relationships are between humans. Conflict is not a measurement of the morality of a relationship, so it’s not a strong point for either side imo. My only point is that it is an argument from silence to treat a text’s silence on a subject as either an endorsement or prohibition of something.
Not a concern when both wives come into the marriage as virgins, and remain faithful to their one husband. This is why Jesus gave allowance for a man to divorce his unfaithful wife, just as God divorced unfaithful Israel.
That is justification. WHAT Christ hates is to sleep with someone whom not legally married. Any man can have wives as many as he declares them by marriage.and pay bride price. Churches and Pastors do not know what they are talking about, always make assumption and justifications o f the scriptures.
What is God's punishment for adultery? Leviticus 20:10 threatened that 'the man that committed adultery with another man's wife … the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death', while Deuteronomy 22:22 thundered, if a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then both of them shall die'.25/10/2017
Good. But God himself ordered polygyny: if your older brother dies without a child you must make a child to his widow. There is no exception (if you are already married). God regulated polygyny, so what? If you buy a slave and take her also as a wife… etc. it is not cultural, since polyandy could also be cultural and inacceptable. Polygyny was in fact a way to developp the people of God: a good husband should fill the land with godly children. I see no change today. If you truly follow God, you should multiply. But cant be elder.
No. Polygamy disappeared wherever the Catholic and Protestant churches suppressed it. It is making a return though, as people study the Word of God and come to realize that God never had an issue with it.
I often wondered if there was any lesbianism that went on among the co-wives of these polygamous marriages? I would think that would not be beyond the realm of possibility since they shared the same husband and also lived under the same roof. If the man is married to all these wives, then I wonder if that meant that they were married to one another.
That would be polyamory...that is unlawful in scriptures...the women were not to intermingle sexually...in fact a man after having intercourse with 1 of his wives had to wait until following day to have the other...to keep sexual purity...
Who is it to anybody else if a man has more than 1 wife. They are all adults and agree to the law of God with a biblical marriage. Thou shall not judge.
It depends of course on the wives that you wish to acquire. I would argue that you need to look at the father of the prospective woman, and emulate him.
Your knowledge of the Bible is very very limited. If the people who serve God fall into sins it doesn't mean that God allowed it. No one setting aside God ' s holy law can find happiness, all who ever try live to regret it. God is infinite in wisdom and knowledge, doesn't change.
@@philcorministries9041 I would argue that even if a man marries a second wife after coming to faith in Christ, he will still go to heaven, but I think the point you tried to make, was that it can be living hell on earth. This is true, if a man is not careful in his selection of wives, but it does not necessarily have to be the case. It is harder I am sure to manage two wives than to manage one, but some men have this gift, while others, not so much. What you really ought to think about, is what would you tell a man who is thinking about leaving his first wife, ostensibly in order to marry another wife.
You are scripture twisting. Just as the bride of Christ is more than one man, a man's "wife" can be more than one woman. How would men who already have multiple wives become christians if what you claim is true?
What the hell is wrong with just one man and one woman and being in love while this other stuff I’m sorry to put it that way, but is it interesting question and does one man and woman really fall in love anymore and be true and why is it I don’t understand other things or sinful in the Bible, but this is it how cannot even be love I don’t understand the Bible. Who wants that problem more than one partner that would be a big enough headache one persons enough to put up with😂
Hi Bonnie I agree that if there was no sin, then the world would be a better place. The Bible is about the redemption of messy people, who come to Christ out of lives shaped by the sinful choices of others and their own.
@@philcorministries9041 indeed true love is so lovely a man and a woman. They should love each other and cherish each other. I’m just a beginner and excepting God but I think I’m getting the hang of it. Hallelujah.
@@bonnnieburton-xm3yw Some men can, and some cannot. Think of it this way. You can choose a proven good man who loves the Lord, and has remained faithful to his wife, or you can roll the proverbial dice and fish from the bottom of the barrell and hope to pull out a prize. The pool of available unmarried men shrinks, while the pool of married men grows, so you are more likely to find a gem, if you listen to God's voice and be willing to say "Yes" to whatever direction He leads you.
Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses wrote you this precept ; But from the beginning it was not so. Jesus said this pertaining to divorce. But this word is not isolated but this applies to the entirety of the laws handed down by Moses. How so? Because Jesus banished an eye for an eye, Jesus says love your enemies where the law said otherwise, Jesus says a lustful gaze is adultery where the law does not. Read the places Jesus says "You have heard say...But I say..." Regarding divorce, Jesus would say its unlawful where the law permitted it and says subsequent remarriages are adulteries(exception for widow-er remarriage). Regarding Polygyny Jesus 'would' say it is unlawful and adultery. Why??? From the beginning it was not so. Polygynous converts should not be counseled to remain polygynous they should walk the way of Judah when he discovered his wrong with Tamar.
divorce is different than polygamy. so Jesus wouldnt say its unlawful. because the law literally says how to do it. if it was adultery than moses wouldve been stoned. david too. solomon etc.
Agreeing with His disciples, Jessus promoted (in Mathew 19) that's better for a man to be alone, but *that's not for everyone (to be eunuchs).* Ap. Paul and his followers (Timothy, Titus...) we're following Christ *(staying and remaining allone)* but he had a hard life... in his time there were 2 schools: *Hillel* and *Shamai* and most pharisees were tempting Christ to see what school did He sustaining... Ap. Paul was CLEARLY acting strong against his flesh, and that's why all his advices were not agreable by all Christians from his time... Just reading 1 Corinthians chapter 5 and 6 (in spirit) we will see that there were many Corinthians who did NOT judged that young Corinthian who took *(as wife?)* the wife of his living *(and perhaps, poligin?)* father... Now, in 2 Corinthians chapter 2 and chapter 7, Ap. Paul let us understand that the adulterous corithian is forgiven and *the church who did NOT condemned him at the begining,* this church get closer to his understanding... agreeing that a woman is bounded by her's husband as long he is allive! Now... *we all know why did John the Baptist die, right?* He was righteous, and Irod did not had peace in his adulterous relation with the wife of Philip (his brother) because John was remembering him always that he cannot have her as wife *(as long her's husband, Philip was allive)* my brethrens... poliginy is NOT a sin, but divorcing and marrying again is, *as long the husband is allive!* NOW HERE IS THE QUESTION: *Is a MAN bounded by the law of His wife? (Can a woman be gealous on hers husband???)* Actually, that's *the new world order* issue struggling in our hearts! *THE OLD (divine) ORDER is vertical:* Jessus is the Head of the Man the Man is the Head of woman God is the Head of Jessus Christ... *THE NEW (not divine) horizontal ORDER is:* "there is NO GOD, Jessus was a human (like Mahomed) the woman is equal with the man (and with Jessus who was a human) do we make the difference ?!? THE NEW WORLD (dirty) ORDER is actually in our familly from long time, and our nations are perishing because disobediance... *that's why Isaiah chapter 4 verse 1* is happening already... *because the daughters of Sion are jessebrlic,emancipated and are not walking humble with God (like Christ did!)* - as we see those 7 churchees from the book of Revelation chapter 2 & 3... *Poliginy is actually " THE CURE" against emancipation and self proclamation !* may the Peace of the Son be uppon the Sons of Peace and over their houses Amen.
I believe that Genesis 2:24 clarifies that God does not approve of a polygamous marriage. ""Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” The word does not say a man shall cleave unto his WIVES.😎
God's Law literally commanded men to take more than one wife. If a man's brother dies, he is to marry his brothers widow, even if the living brother is already married. If a man sleeps with a virgin he is to marry her, even if the man already has a wife. God also gave King David 18 wives, and said He would give more if David wanted. Abraham had wives and concubines, he was chosen by God as the forefather of Israel. God approves of polygyny.
This message is for all year Christian girls that don’t wanna give it up to your husbands. We are going to get another one because you’re too lazy and on usable
God's word is NOT DEBATED. Polygamy is most definitely SIN in the Christian faith. God's promise: For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, (not wives!!) and they will become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked, and they were not ashamed.… New Testament: Jesus came to REDEEM man from sin. 1 Corinthians 7 : But since there IS SO MUCH immorality, EACH MAN should have his own wife, (not plural!!) and EACH woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. A THREEFOLD CORD CANNOT EASILY BE BROKEN. Man, wife and God.
You're wrong, taking scripture out of context to suit your pagan marriage laws. How would men with more than one wife become christian if what you say is true? Also Gods Law approved of polygyny, God didn't make sin into law. God personally gave King David 18 wives, and said He would give more if David wanted.
"A threefold cord cannot easily be broken." That line is in ecclesiastes, written by Solomon, who had 1000 wives/concubines. Also Gods Law approved of polygyny and even commanded men to have multiple wives in some cases.
@@genericusername3029 yes, but the question is if it is a good idea for a New Testament believer? If it disqualifies you form leadership and service that would imply that it is allowed but not encouraged.
@@philcorministries9041 The Bible states that very few should aspire to become ministers/teachers because they are judged by a higher standard (James 3:1). The higher your level of authority within the church the more you must sacrifice, which is why ministers/teachers can only have one wife. Only a very small percentage of men should become ministers/teachers. Applying the standards that ministers/teachers must follow to the average christian is against Biblical doctrine. The Church is currently 2/3 to 3/4 female depending on the congregation. There are not enough men for all the christian women. The answer to the gender disparity should be polygyny.
@@philcorministries9041 Here is the scripture to back up my point, I forgot to add it earlier. (James 3:1: "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.")
Yes, a Christian man may have two wives in accordance with the divine polygyny marriage Laws of God.
“And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.” (Isaiah 4:1, KJV)
“Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry [including polygyny], and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.” (1 Timothy 4:1-3, KJV)
This was the Roman's councils right here prophesied in this scripture bringing in the heretical changes to the Church...one of the things they changed was polygynous marriages and forced monogamy...
There are terrible marriages with one single wite… And polygamy has many advantages, especially in societies where poverty is rife and few men can afford to raise children properly, or where men die young due to war or harsh conditions. The bottom line is: polygamy was never considered a sin, and the definition of sin doesn’t change over time.
I think the practice of polygamy would leave a lot of men without wives
@@debrawehrly6900 And that is actually a good thing. Men should have to prove themselves to be worthy men, and be thoroughly vetted by the woman's father before obtaining a wife.
Paul's advice or the law of GOD? Marriage is both polygyny and monogamy. No one can explain God. The problem is religion and lack of understanding.
Wow
The ignorance that Paul spoke of, had nothing to do with polygamy. Paul was talking about their worship of false gods!
Exactly
People mixing concepts up to make a point out of context is not rightly dividing the word of truth
It does not always have to be a negative.
The two people should not be fighting one another on an equal level. That is unbiblical! Scripture clearly teaches that wives are to SUBMIT to their husbands! If they are fighting their husbands, they are not living in accord with Scriptural principals!
That was so insightful! Especially the last story that he shared
Yacham Edward Thank you Yacham! If there are other related topics you would like me to talk about let me know. I’ll give you a shoutout as well if I do a video you suggest.
These matter is ever contentious. It has never been exhaustively explained at any forum. Everyone is just speculating or giving their own opinions concerning the issue. However I personally believe the Bible has not outlawed polygamy.
I agree that it is not outlawed in scripture. But it cleary disqualifies you from eldership/leadership in the church.
@@philcorministries9041 in fairness sir, the phrase in the NT which says "husband of one wife" can also be just as correctly translated 2 other ways "husband of his first wife" and "husband of a wife", potentially meaning that it could be that only married men could be elders (which we know isn't true on account of paul for example) or that they couldn't of been divorced (a far more likely scenario as unlawful divorce is actually condemned in scripture, unlike polygyny, which is only ever permitted). there's no NEW commandment regarding polygyny in the entire new testament, so to assume paul is somehow giving a new law regarding it here, is highly unlikely, as the Lord never changes, and this would've expressly meant that people such as ABRAHAM the literal FATHER of israel (in the human sense, being the original seed bearer of the promise etc) would be disqualified from leadership in the NT church, as would jacob, david (a man described by the Lord as "after his own heart") and even moses for example, a highly unlikely scenario don't you think? That would mean that the Laws of moses would be being discussed in a church, that moses himself couldn't of been an elder in?..... even modern day scholars (who still for reasons that i have to honestly attribute to their worldly thinking, instead of Godly thinking, declare that polygyny isn't allowed anymore) find it highly unlikely that the phrase translated "husband of one wife" had anything to do with polygyny, and was regarding something else. Anyway, hope that was food for thought, God bless and keep you in all you do brother.
@@stevesmith7843 Thank you for your comment! Two thoughts-
1. Abram, if married to his half-sister, and Jacob if married to two sisters while both were alive, were both to be condemned if they lived under the law of Moses, (In the law both practices were call abomination), yet, since they before the law, while in the time of ignorance before the law they remained guiltless. The Lord does not change but He deals with us according to the revelation we have received. Moses allowed divorce but Jesus states that it was a concession due to the hardness of their hearts. So a change in what is allowed is not unprecedented, especially with regards to marriage.
2. I’m not sure that the phrase can be translated
as ‘first wife’ since Greek, like English, distinguishes cardinal numbers from ordinals. In Greek an ordinal under ten takes the word ‘et’. It is not in any of the manuscripts of ‘husband of one wife’ in either of the letter to Titus or Timothy where Paul uses the phrase.
@@philcorministries9041 interesting points, and i wouldn't disagree with you either. Obviously the concession is made for divorce in the case of adultery, as Christ affirmed it.
However in regards to the greek in the NT phrases, my understanding is the 3 LITERAL ways that it can be translated correctly are 1, "a wife man" 2, "a one wife man" 3, "a first wife man", this is according to scholars, of which i am not one unfortunately. God bless and keep you, and thanks for the reply.
@@philcorministries9041 Jacob's actions were not called abomination. There is a qualifier in Lev 18:18, which specifies that the prupose would be to cause a rivalry, which is never a good idea in polygyny, in the first place. Jacob however married Leah's sister, because that is who he wanted to begin with, and for whom he had labored for seven years.
You are probably correct about the term "mia", but the literal translatioin does not read "husband" or "wife". The people of Crete and Ephesus, whom Titus and Timothy were appointing leaders from, were Roman, and while technically, Romans were monogamous, they had no issue whatsoever with having a mistress or frequenting temple prostitutes.
Jacob (Isreal) had 4 wives Leah, Rachel,Bilhah and Zilpah
And they gave birth to the 12 tribes of isreal (sons that became the 12 tribes)
Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin
The loss only occurs if the wives try to argue with each other instead of allowing the husband to be the final arbiter.
The terms "bride" and "wife" are used in the scriptures in both a singular and plural forms. Christ's bride is made up of many members and God referred to the entire nation of Israel as his wife.
God had 2 wives. Israel AND Judah...in Jeremiah God states: "I was a Husband unto THEM"
@@princedarius7224despite God clearly describing a polygynous relation when He speaks in Ezekiel people still say its a sin...like really...drives me nutz
God has/had 2 wives in Ezekiel 23: ohalah and ohalabah. Would God model sin? This alone should settle the question. According to Isaiah 4 it's for the benefit of women, not just so a man can have a big harem. With the kinsman-redeemer polygyny is commanded in most cases.
Agreeing with His disciples, Jessus promoted (in Mathew 19) that's better for a man to be alone, but *that's not for everyone (to be eunuchs).*
Ap. Paul and his followers (Timothy, Titus...) we're following Christ *(staying and remaining allone)* but he had a hard life... in his time there were 2 schools: *Hillel* and *Shamai* and most pharisees were tempting Christ to see what school did He sustaining...
Ap. Paul was CLEARLY acting strong against his flesh, and that's why all his advices were not agreable by all Christians from his time...
Just reading 1 Corinthians chapter 5 and 6 (in spirit) we will see that there were many Corinthians who did NOT judged that young Corinthian who took *(as wife?)* the wife of his living *(and perhaps, poligin?)* father...
Now, in 2 Corinthians chapter 2 and chapter 7, Ap. Paul let us understand that the adulterous corithian is forgiven and *the church who did NOT condemned him at the begining,* this church get closer to his understanding... agreeing that a woman is bounded by her's husband as long he is allive!
Now... *we all know why did John the Baptist die, right?*
He was righteous, and Irod did not had peace in his adulterous relation with the wife of Philip (his brother) because John was remembering him always that he cannot have her as wife *(as long her's husband, Philip was allive)*
my brethrens...
poliginy is NOT a sin, but divorcing and marrying again is, *as long the husband is allive!*
NOW HERE IS THE QUESTION:
*Is a MAN bounded by the law of His wife? (Can a woman be gealous on hers husband???)*
Actually, that's *the new world order* issue struggling in our hearts!
*THE OLD (divine) ORDER is vertical:*
Jessus is the Head of the Man
the Man is the Head of woman
God is the Head of Jessus Christ...
*THE NEW (not divine) horizontal ORDER is:*
"there is NO GOD,
Jessus was a human (like Mahomed)
the woman is equal with the man
(and with Jessus who was a human)
do we make the difference ?!?
THE NEW WORLD (dirty) ORDER is actually in our familly from long time, and our nations are perishing because disobediance...
*that's why Isaiah chapter 4 verse 1* is happening already... *because the daughters of Sion are jessebrlic,emancipated and are not walking humble with God (like Christ did!)* - as we see those 7 churchees from the book of Revelation chapter 2 & 3...
*Poliginy is actually " THE CURE" against emancipation and self proclamation !*
may the Peace of the Son be uppon the Sons of Peace and over their houses
Amen.
God bless and keep you brother, i can tell english isn't your first language, but in sentiment, it mirrors my own sentiment. May the spirit of our Lord bring you peace, and may his mighty hands hold you through the coming calamities.
@@stevesmith7843 Amen, Brother.
May our heavenly Father keep you and your bellowed ones too, under His Grace!
Amen.
*(yes, am not an English speaker, but I am from Est, from Europe)*
Where in the old testament is monogamy encouraged? You should see the strife in monogamy looks like you haven't. More than 50% monogamous marriages fail! Its not working!
Exactly! Around 70% actually. Monogamy isn't natural
True.
@@chadfreshkidd5728Turning the other cheek isn't natural either.
Where is it encouraged? Well the Almighty's original design was 1 man, 1 wife, 1 flesh
Democracy is a helluva drug!
Man must be encouraged to take responsibility of their actions
Agreed, so should women.
Agreed.
Yes.
Exactly! That is precisely what polygyny is. It is the practice of taking care of the women whose children you have fathered.
This is the best argument for Monogamy I have ever heard. One note if it is not a sin to have more then one wife then it is a sin to ban a christan from worship Because he has more then one. Because that would be forbidding marriage.
I'm only really looking at this because my wife abandoned our marriage. Refusing reconciliation or any consuling. I don't want to divorce her but it's kinda been thrust upon me.
Soo am I forced to live alone at 32 years old all these years? I'm still open for reconciliation and am not pursuing relationships at this moment however I won't even consider dating unless marriage is an option.
James, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation. I would love to correspond with you directly rather than replying to you on this public forum. Please find me on facebook and inbox or message me there so that we can interact more in a private setting.
Himothy is right, Sin is transgression of the Law, the only Laws God ever made around polygyny, was that if you take another wife, you mustn't decrease your other wives food, clothing, or sexual rights, and also that you cannot marry 2 sisters simultaneously, due to their inherent rivalry. If your wife has separated from you, she should remain unmarried, otherwise she commits adultery. If at the point she commits adultery you wish to divorce her, you may, but it's entirely up to you and i pray you seek Gods wisdom always in those decisions.
However brother your wife choosing to separate from you, doesn't mean that YOU are decreasing her food, clothing, or sexual rights, it means she's made a choice that she isn't willing to accept those things. I see no scriptural issue whatsoever with you taking another wife, or 5 should it be your desire to do so, as long as you obey Gods law.... just be sure not to commit fornication, as such is abhorrent to the Lord, once you're married, you both owe each other your sexual rights, and these cannot be withheld since your body belongs to her, and hers to you. As hard as it will be, try and find a genuinely Christian woman, who accepts scripture, and that you are her head, and authority.
Pray to the Lord thy God for wisdom in all things, acknowledge him in all your ways, and he WILL make your paths straight. God bless and keep you brother, i hope i've been helpful.
@@stevesmith7843 I'm not making any immediate decisions as I am taking my time to do look for truth and do what's right.
I'm exploring if remarriage etc rules are different for men and women
@@JamesWFisher22 a wise decision, as far as i'm aware they're a bit different, in that a woman cannot get a divorce, for any reason. The only time she's no longer bound to her husband is if he gets a divorce for adultery, or dies.
Please divorce that wife. Then take another wife. Explain to the new wife what happened. Explain to her that you, though divorced you still consider your divorced wife to be your wife. You don't believe in divorce and that you only divorced her to prevent her from coming back and causing chaos in your new marriage.
Then go to your first wife, that is if you can get hold of her. Tell her that despite the divorce you still consider her to be your wife and that you will be happy if both of you can reconcile. Since you have taken another wife, if you reconcile she has to be at peace that she will be the senior wife.
If she agrees to reconciliation, don't marry her again she may cause chaos. Just draft a will which will provide for her. It may be advisable that the three of you draft a joint will.
If she refuses the reconciliation, then fine. Proceed with your life. But know that she is still your wife despite the divorce for what God has put together, no man can ever separate!
However if you find that she is, or has been in a relationship, let the divorce stand. She has committed adultery and before God's eyes the divorce is valid.
The idea of only having more wives if everyone has a wife, is only good if a) All the men who wish to marry, can afford a wife b) All the men who wish to marry, are decent upstanding devout followers of Christ c) All the men who wish to marry have married. Understand the context of what Paul said in I Cor 7 regarding having more time to serve God, applies not to men who have one wife, but to men who have no wife whatsoever. Some men can choose not to hassle with married life of their own free will. A much better approach would be to not allow a man to marry until he has earned enough wealth to take care of however many wives he desires to have, and that might be at age 30 or 40, but there should not be any age difference restriction. There is no Scripture that says that a man has to marry a woman that is close to his age.
It was not in the context of being unable to fully devote to the Lord, that Paul wrote that elders, deacons, bishops, should be a one woman man. It was actually in context of women being saved through childbirth, that Paul wrote this to Timothy, and it was in context of being left at Crete to appoint leaders, that he wrote to Titus.
So you know the schedule of a polygamist how? Have you personally met any of them?
Well said
There were many examples in Scripture where there were multiple wives with no mention whatsoever, of strife!
That would still be an argument from silence, at best.
@@jncon8013 That is a silly and uninformed response. If I can show you one counterexample, where there is no more strife than might occur in monogamy, if completely refutes any claim that polygyny always results in strife. So these guys point to a few examples where disagreements took place, and use that to portray all polygynous marriages as a living hell. I beg to differ.
@@danieldeluca4936 I didn’t make that claim. Monogamous couples and polygynous couples both experience some degree of strife, as both relationships are between humans. Conflict is not a measurement of the morality of a relationship, so it’s not a strong point for either side imo.
My only point is that it is an argument from silence to treat a text’s silence on a subject as either an endorsement or prohibition of something.
@@jncon8013 But I wasn't trying to endorse it. I was simply pointing out how in the video, their attempt to imply that it is prohibited, falls short.
@@danieldeluca4936 I don't believe polygyny is good but I do agree that that argument in particular falls short
simple answer YES YOU CAN
OK what about diseases doesn’t anyone ever think anymore?
Not a concern when both wives come into the marriage as virgins, and remain faithful to their one husband. This is why Jesus gave allowance for a man to divorce his unfaithful wife, just as God divorced unfaithful Israel.
That is justification. WHAT Christ hates is to sleep with someone whom not legally married. Any man can have wives as many as he declares them by marriage.and pay bride price. Churches and Pastors do not know what they are talking about, always make assumption and justifications o f the scriptures.
What is God's punishment for adultery?
Leviticus 20:10 threatened that 'the man that committed adultery with another man's wife … the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death', while Deuteronomy 22:22 thundered, if a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then both of them shall die'.25/10/2017
Very true
No
People just want to justify their fleshly desires. What if all 2-4+ women want at least 2 kids each? Will they (the men) execute?
Good. But God himself ordered polygyny: if your older brother dies without a child you must make a child to his widow. There is no exception (if you are already married). God regulated polygyny, so what? If you buy a slave and take her also as a wife… etc. it is not cultural, since polyandy could also be cultural and inacceptable. Polygyny was in fact a way to developp the people of God: a good husband should fill the land with godly children. I see no change today. If you truly follow God, you should multiply. But cant be elder.
Very hard to hear
I want at least 2 wives
Same here!
I wish to have 7.
You can, but why would you want to? One is a handful, maybe get yourself a concubine instead?
Why do you assume they had more than one wife BEFORE they came to Jesus?
That is justification. WHAT Christ hates is to sleep with someone whom not legally married.
I liked this video. Based on my understanding of this video, it appears to me that polygamy disappeared as marriages evolved.
No. Polygamy disappeared wherever the Catholic and Protestant churches suppressed it. It is making a return though, as people study the Word of God and come to realize that God never had an issue with it.
I often wondered if there was any lesbianism that went on among the co-wives of these polygamous marriages? I would think that would not be beyond the realm of possibility since they shared the same husband and also lived under the same roof. If the man is married to all these wives, then I wonder if that meant that they were married to one another.
That would be polyamory...that is unlawful in scriptures...the women were not to intermingle sexually...in fact a man after having intercourse with 1 of his wives had to wait until following day to have the other...to keep sexual purity...
Who is it to anybody else if a man has more than 1 wife. They are all adults and agree to the law of God with a biblical marriage. Thou shall not judge.
Polygamy is sin.
If your going to attempt to be polygamist, you first need to grow a beard
It depends of course on the wives that you wish to acquire. I would argue that you need to look at the father of the prospective woman, and emulate him.
Your knowledge of the Bible is very very limited. If the people who serve God fall into sins it doesn't mean that God allowed it. No one setting aside God ' s holy law can find happiness, all who ever try live to regret it. God is infinite in wisdom and knowledge, doesn't change.
Many men married to two or more wives. If they repent and becomes Christians will they go to hell?
No, but they are disqualified from Christian leadership
@@philcorministries9041 I would argue that even if a man marries a second wife after coming to faith in Christ, he will still go to heaven, but I think the point you tried to make, was that it can be living hell on earth. This is true, if a man is not careful in his selection of wives, but it does not necessarily have to be the case. It is harder I am sure to manage two wives than to manage one, but some men have this gift, while others, not so much. What you really ought to think about, is what would you tell a man who is thinking about leaving his first wife, ostensibly in order to marry another wife.
You are scripture twisting. Just as the bride of Christ is more than one man, a man's "wife" can be more than one woman. How would men who already have multiple wives become christians if what you claim is true?
What the hell is wrong with just one man and one woman and being in love while this other stuff I’m sorry to put it that way, but is it interesting question and does one man and woman really fall in love anymore and be true and why is it I don’t understand other things or sinful in the Bible, but this is it how cannot even be love I don’t understand the Bible. Who wants that problem more than one partner that would be a big enough headache one persons enough to put up with😂
Hi Bonnie
I agree that if there was no sin, then the world would be a better place. The Bible is about the redemption of messy people, who come to Christ out of lives shaped by the sinful choices of others and their own.
@@philcorministries9041 indeed true love is so lovely a man and a woman. They should love each other and cherish each other. I’m just a beginner and excepting God but I think I’m getting the hang of it. Hallelujah.
@@bonnnieburton-xm3yw Some men can, and some cannot. Think of it this way. You can choose a proven good man who loves the Lord, and has remained faithful to his wife, or you can roll the proverbial dice and fish from the bottom of the barrell and hope to pull out a prize. The pool of available unmarried men shrinks, while the pool of married men grows, so you are more likely to find a gem, if you listen to God's voice and be willing to say "Yes" to whatever direction He leads you.
Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses wrote you this precept ; But from the beginning it was not so. Jesus said this pertaining to divorce.
But this word is not isolated but this applies to the entirety of the laws handed down by Moses. How so?
Because Jesus banished an eye for an eye, Jesus says love your enemies where the law said otherwise, Jesus says a lustful gaze is adultery where the law does not.
Read the places Jesus says "You have heard say...But I say..."
Regarding divorce, Jesus would say its unlawful where the law permitted it and says subsequent remarriages are adulteries(exception for widow-er remarriage).
Regarding Polygyny Jesus 'would' say it is unlawful and adultery. Why???
From the beginning it was not so.
Polygynous converts should not be counseled to remain polygynous they should walk the way of Judah when he discovered his wrong with Tamar.
I agree that this would be best, but it is not a scriptural command.
divorce is different than polygamy. so Jesus wouldnt say its unlawful. because the law literally says how to do it. if it was adultery than moses wouldve been stoned. david too. solomon etc.
Yes, divorce is sin and a related issue but the question is polygamy.
Agreeing with His disciples, Jessus promoted (in Mathew 19) that's better for a man to be alone, but *that's not for everyone (to be eunuchs).*
Ap. Paul and his followers (Timothy, Titus...) we're following Christ *(staying and remaining allone)* but he had a hard life... in his time there were 2 schools: *Hillel* and *Shamai* and most pharisees were tempting Christ to see what school did He sustaining...
Ap. Paul was CLEARLY acting strong against his flesh, and that's why all his advices were not agreable by all Christians from his time...
Just reading 1 Corinthians chapter 5 and 6 (in spirit) we will see that there were many Corinthians who did NOT judged that young Corinthian who took *(as wife?)* the wife of his living *(and perhaps, poligin?)* father...
Now, in 2 Corinthians chapter 2 and chapter 7, Ap. Paul let us understand that the adulterous corithian is forgiven and *the church who did NOT condemned him at the begining,* this church get closer to his understanding... agreeing that a woman is bounded by her's husband as long he is allive!
Now... *we all know why did John the Baptist die, right?*
He was righteous, and Irod did not had peace in his adulterous relation with the wife of Philip (his brother) because John was remembering him always that he cannot have her as wife *(as long her's husband, Philip was allive)*
my brethrens...
poliginy is NOT a sin, but divorcing and marrying again is, *as long the husband is allive!*
NOW HERE IS THE QUESTION:
*Is a MAN bounded by the law of His wife? (Can a woman be gealous on hers husband???)*
Actually, that's *the new world order* issue struggling in our hearts!
*THE OLD (divine) ORDER is vertical:*
Jessus is the Head of the Man
the Man is the Head of woman
God is the Head of Jessus Christ...
*THE NEW (not divine) horizontal ORDER is:*
"there is NO GOD,
Jessus was a human (like Mahomed)
the woman is equal with the man
(and with Jessus who was a human)
do we make the difference ?!?
THE NEW WORLD (dirty) ORDER is actually in our familly from long time, and our nations are perishing because disobediance...
*that's why Isaiah chapter 4 verse 1* is happening already... *because the daughters of Sion are jessebrlic,emancipated and are not walking humble with God (like Christ did!)* - as we see those 7 churchees from the book of Revelation chapter 2 & 3...
*Poliginy is actually " THE CURE" against emancipation and self proclamation !*
may the Peace of the Son be uppon the Sons of Peace and over their houses
Amen.
Jesus qualified that "lustful gaze". If you read the Tyndale translation you will see that He was talking about looking at the wife of another man!
I believe that Genesis 2:24 clarifies that God does not approve of a polygamous marriage. ""Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.” The word does not say a man shall cleave unto his WIVES.😎
lol. Since is the beginning of mankind, there is no law to on Polygamy. You can figure it out if you have seen one.
@@Solomon-Taropo facts
God's Law literally commanded men to take more than one wife. If a man's brother dies, he is to marry his brothers widow, even if the living brother is already married. If a man sleeps with a virgin he is to marry her, even if the man already has a wife. God also gave King David 18 wives, and said He would give more if David wanted. Abraham had wives and concubines, he was chosen by God as the forefather of Israel. God approves of polygyny.
@@genericusername3029 yep
That was his original lol intent but does not condemn it so we can have multiple wife’s
This message is for all year Christian girls that don’t wanna give it up to your husbands. We are going to get another one because you’re too lazy and on usable
God's word is NOT DEBATED.
Polygamy is most definitely SIN in the Christian faith.
God's promise: For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, (not wives!!) and they will become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked, and they were not ashamed.…
New Testament: Jesus came to REDEEM man from sin. 1 Corinthians 7 : But since there IS SO MUCH immorality, EACH MAN should have his own wife, (not plural!!) and EACH woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. A THREEFOLD CORD CANNOT EASILY BE BROKEN. Man, wife and God.
You're wrong, taking scripture out of context to suit your pagan marriage laws. How would men with more than one wife become christian if what you say is true? Also Gods Law approved of polygyny, God didn't make sin into law. God personally gave King David 18 wives, and said He would give more if David wanted.
"A threefold cord cannot easily be broken." That line is in ecclesiastes, written by Solomon, who had 1000 wives/concubines. Also Gods Law approved of polygyny and even commanded men to have multiple wives in some cases.
@@genericusername3029 yes, but the question is if it is a good idea for a New Testament believer? If it disqualifies you form leadership and service that would imply that it is allowed but not encouraged.
@@philcorministries9041 The Bible states that very few should aspire to become ministers/teachers because they are judged by a higher standard (James 3:1). The higher your level of authority within the church the more you must sacrifice, which is why ministers/teachers can only have one wife. Only a very small percentage of men should become ministers/teachers. Applying the standards that ministers/teachers must follow to the average christian is against Biblical doctrine. The Church is currently 2/3 to 3/4 female depending on the congregation. There are not enough men for all the christian women. The answer to the gender disparity should be polygyny.
@@philcorministries9041 Here is the scripture to back up my point, I forgot to add it earlier. (James 3:1: "Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.")