How to Counter Steer on a Motorcycle
Vložit
- čas přidán 29. 02. 2024
- This week on MCrider lets talk about counter steering and look at some techniques on a parking lot to practice.
**BECOME A MEMBER** GET INSTANT ACCESS TO THE FORUMS AND FIELD GUIDE
www.MCrider.com/Member
Do you like MCrider and want to get more training, get involved, and help MCrider grow?
SUBSCRIBE to MCrider on CZcams
www.MCrider.com/subscribe
WATCH EVERY MCRIDER VIDEO EVER RELEASED
www.MCrider.com/watch
SIGN UP FOR THE WEEKLY MCRIDER NEWSLETTER
www.MCrider.com/email
MCRIDER MERCHANDISE
Hats and keychains: www.MCrider.com/hat
MCrider Reflective Decals: www.MCrider.com/decal
t-shirts: www.teespring.com/stores/mcrider
LET CONNECT
/ mcriderskills
/ mcriderskills
LEARN MORE about Kevin and MCrider, hear my story and how this thing called MCrider started
www.MCrider.com/eye
SHOP ONLINE with these links and a portion of the sale will support MCrider
www.MCrider.com/amazon
I will see you on the road,
Kevin at MCrider - Auta a dopravní prostředky
One of the most important subjects to teach to new riders, thanks Kevin for all your great work.
One of the great revelations of my riding career is when I learned about countersteering a few decades ago. Keep the good stuff coming.
This is probably the best video that I've seen on counter steering. The zoomed in, slow motion showing the wheel going one way, then the motorcycle going the other way is just spot on.
Hi Kevin, as you probably know there have been many CZcams videos in recent times on this very subject. Some presenters have tied themselves in knots explaining this concept and probably confused a lot of riders along the way. Along with others who have provided feedback I think this has been the best explanation thus far on this subject. I find that I do it instinctively without even thinking about it. Thanks so much. 👍🇦🇺
I find it interesting that everyone does counter steering even if they don’t know it exists. Starting from bicycles up to motorcycles. Otherwise they just wouldn’t be able to turn. Then you explain it to them and they don’t believe you. I’ve taught 5 people how to ride a scooter without explaining to them how to turn and they have all just counter steered without knowing they were doing it.😊
Exactly. The CZcams videos that teach counter steering as a "technique" confuse me 😐
My grandson, being a toddler at 2 yrs learned countersteering by himself. No problem. Only way to control a 2 wheeled vehicle
I learned early on teaching youngsters to ride bikes, that training goes more smoothly with a 16 inch model on which they can touch their feet comfortably on both sides. That teaches them from the get-go that they must hold up that bike and it teaches them balancing instincts more promptly than initially relying on training wheels and then removing them.
Great video Kevin. Showing what is going on in countersteering from both perspectives. Thank you for sharing this . Take care and have a great weekend.
I tried it tonight and was blown away by how much quicker the bike responds with just a tiny nudge. Thank you so much for this very useful tip!!
Excellent video. Blessings.
Great instructions Kevin
It's really subtle, glad I finally saw it work.
Always good info
Thank you for your time and video because a lot of rides need to see this I have app hanger Paul yaff bars on mine and this also work's on any bike with any bar's just rember don't be death grip the bar's relax and enjoy the ride, spot on
So one of the things I learned from riding was that if you push with your foot on the peg in the direction you want to go, you naturally push the opposite direction with your hands.
Like riding a horse, who most all people knew how to do when the motorcycle was invented, right boot pressure on the right stirrup makes the horse go right. Put this together with opposite pressure on the right bar makes a smooth no brainer turn..
Try It!!
Good interesting topic and demonstration
Thank you!
Excellent video!!! Thank you for the close up and slo-mo explanations, which are super helpful!!! I've only been riding a year, and I feel pretty confident riding around and taking corners BUT, sometimes I do tense up in a corner when there is a car there. I'm working on really trusting how much i push on the bar to hold my lean through a good gentle curve, AND keep a good lane position in case that car moves over the center line.
Don’t forget to look through the corners, turn your head fully and point your nose in the direction you want the motorcycle to go.
Nice demo of CS. Many thanks! Only problem is, in UK we don't have big empty parking lots (car parks here) that you do in the 'States! They're all much smaller and full of parked cars!
I have an idea; find a long straightaway and just practice going between the lanes on an abandoned country road maybe?
Excellent video. Nice to have the fender mount light. It really showed the topic well. Roadmaster owner here. 😁
Excellent, Excellent, Excellent!!!
My riding season never ended. I only used the car three times this winter and I live in New York State. This winter has been kind. I just bought my new motorcycle this past October in the beginning of the month and I have put very close to 4000 miles on it since then and today it was actually pretty nice out it was 30° and sunny the coldest, I’ve written it so far is 14 not including the windchill for an hour and 40 minutes and it was cold and on the way back the same trip but it was 16° not including the windchill and after I put the wool socks on that helped
Thank you! I actually don't think about counter-steering, but simply leaning the bike to the direction I want. For me easier to think and accept. Thus the counter-steering affect is done without thinking it. Footnote: I tried driving a sidecar bike, and failed miserably. In every corner I tried to turn to the opposite way, even if I tried to tell myself: "turn the front wheel!". So I returned to the one without the sidecar, even if it would be practical.
This was a slightly better explanation of it. I'm in one of the many that just do it and don't really know what I'm doing. Think about the term counter logically like I'm doing the opposite thing. I guess I was always thinking of counter steering being counteracting your lean/turn to stay upright on coarse. Like after already leaned and turning counteracting w other side.
“…a little bit.” Counter Steer is super subtle in my opinion. In my experience I don’t even have to think about it. If I do (think, “push right” that is) it gets extreme. “It doesn’t take a lot of pressure…” is absolutely true. I’ve learned not to overthink it. If you can ride your motorcycle, you can do counter-steering. Maybe the physics lovers like to call it that, but I just do it intuitively. Full stop.
You don't have to think about it because you learned it subconsciously when you were 5 years old.
@@richbenoit1840Exactly. When the training wheels came off and you "learned" to control your direction of travel, you unconsciously learned to counter steer.
Yes, and that is part of the problem. Most of us learn to counter-steer “automatically” and without conscious thought. And most turns we make require very subtle counter-steering so we never learn just how much capability we have if we counter-steer more aggressively. That is where good instruction and good practice is valuable: it helps us learn just how aggressive we can be which makes us much better at swerving around obstacles and also doing things like tightening our turn quickly if we encounter an obstacle mid-corner and a decreasing radius curve catches us off-guard.
This is also the reason that many think that counter-steering stops working at some magic speed around 15 MPH. Counter-steering works right down to 0 MPH, but the problem is that we also counter-steer to maintain balance when riding slowly in a straight line. The counter-steering actions to maintain balance mask the counter-steering input used to initiate a slow speed turn. And, from our days riding bicycles as kids, if we want to turn to the left at slow speed, our brain will wait until we have already started to lean left from normal balancing movements and then simply not make the normal “maintain balance” counter-steer and instead let the bike fall to the left since we want to go that way anyway. Then the first conscious input is steering left to stop the fall at the desired lean angle to maintain the rate of turn desired. This is, in my opinion, the main reason that so many claim they don’t need to counter-steer at slow speeds. The counter-steer occurred subconsciously and all they remember is the conscious “direct” steer used to stabilize the lean angle.
Physics lovers call it gyroscopic precession.
@@dougrobinson8602 Torque-induced precession in this case. 😁
Love these posts. Thanks. Go Horned Frogs!
Good video, really great camera on parking lot. I watched several similar videos and there was a bit missing - once you get the bike to lean, if you want to maintain that lean you actually stop countersteering. If you want to change the lean you countersteer again left or right. Is this about right?
I've ridden bikes/mountain bikes my whole life. I've NEVER heard this topic of counter steering. I'm about to buy a motorcycle for the first time and just now hearing about counter steering and I'm wondering if this topic even needs to be discussed. Seems like it's something that just comes natural when riding two wheels vehicles but i guess I'll find out soon enough. I hope i don't wreck myself over thinking about counter steering while riding. Definitely going to take my training nice and slow.
My biggest concerns are taking corners and my tires slipping on the road surface.
Great video Kevin. I'm I believer in counter steering. I think my greatest fear on a motorcycle is entering a corner too fast. Have you done a video on cornering speed yet?
thanks Kevin yes sir works 's but do you also lean with the bike same angle or try to stay body straight up is another question ? to learn @ speeds above 20/30 + but iam opposite I start a curve by leaning body right & pulling left
A friend who had been riding dirt bikes for years told me he moved his dad's big cruiser and had a really hard time steering it. I told him in my experience bigger bikes were easier to counter steer. He looked at me with a blank stare and said "Counter steering, what's that?"
I told him to push the grip in the direction you want to turn. He did not believe me😅.
He finally got it but i still rib him about it.
Hi, from Australia, thanks for the demonstration. Is the Challenger your personal bike and what is your opinion on the Indian Challenger and Pursuit, I am looking at purchasing a 2023 model , but I don't know if the new Harley Street Glide would be a better choice?
Nice shirt
I think it's that speed thing that confuses people. Below maybe 10 or 15 mph, when you push on the left grip, the bike turns right because the gyroscopic effect hasn't kicked in on the wheels yet. New riders spend their first few hours in a parking lot at low speed, and I think it throws them off when they finally get to the counter steering speed. Great video to explain it.
“Counter steering speed”? You countersteer at any speed.
Learning how to counter steer is best learned on a dirt bike .It is Second nature now after 55 yrs. I started out on dirt bikes 60 yrs ago. Quick maneuvers are required to maneuver a Motor down a steep slippery dirt road...
Counter-steering is one of the hardest things my brain has ever tried to comprehend. Partly due to the fear of crashing if I do it wrong
Kevin, Am I the only one who pulls on the opposite grip of the way I want to turn? I think of it as causing the bike to fall into the corner when I pull the front wheel out from under the bike's immediate direction. More pull= more lean. There's probably something wrong in thinking about steering this way, or it would be taught in MSF classes. I'm sure you've got a good anwer. Thx
I often push with one hand and pull with the other. You are doing the same thing as taught just slightly different technique IMO.
We had crazy high winds last week. Sustained 40 - 50mph for hours at a time. I rode to work one of the days. A constant crosswind on a fully faired (sp?) lightweight bike is a weird thing. Continual lean to the body, but going straight down the road. I shifted my weight and it stood up and rode straight, but then I'm off center. It didn't feel wrong, but something tells me that's not how you do it. Your thoughts, sir?
You simply countersteer for a split second and get a lean into the wind. From there you go straight keeping the lean. If the wind increases, for a split second you turn away from the wind to get more lean, and turn into the wind as the wind speed decreases.
When I read about counter steering in the NY State Learner's Permit booklet, it made no sense to me. You push on the left, it's going to move the tire to the right and you're going to go right. Just confused the heck out of me. Then I got on a motorcycle at the MSF course and knew what it was all about. Anyone who has ridden a bike when they were a kid knows how to counter steer. I honestly think it's half the reason that it's so hard to learn to ride a bike--figuring out that you push left to go left when you're really young just doesn't come easy.
Someone decided to stir the pot, again. 😂
Honestly, the majority of people figure this out without saying anything to them about it. It’s like gravity. You don’t need an explanation to figure it out. Especially if you learned how to ride a bicycle.
I’m impressed with the simple and accurate explanation. Most people forget to explain the second part.
I think experience riders do this without knowing, not detracting from the explanation, thank you..
Is there a minimum speed for counter steering to be effective? And should counter steering be avoided below a minimum speed? Thanks Kevin!
No, counter steering works the same as soon as the motorcycle starts moving.
I don’t think so.
Anything above parking lot speeds and you are counter steering.
You always countersteer as soon as the bike is moving
Only above parking lot speeds, say 5mph
Is it pushing away at the handle bars or pushing down?
Pushing away or pushing forward is correct. Pushing down does nothing.
@@BradS1958 thank you
Thing is, push steering works at any speed (I prefer the term push steering as people get more confused with counter steering), as it always causes the motorcycle or bicycle to lean in the direction opposite to the handle bar direction. The difference is at very slow speed you then need to allow the bike to steer the opposite way to manage the lean and not fall over. At higher speeds the bike always wants to stay upright, requiring less opposite steering. People are in the habit on a bicycle of steering 'normally" and then preventing the opposite lean by shifting their into the turn as they steer, which works fine on a light bicycle at the speeds most people bike at, but not at higher speeds.
Funfact anybody riding a manual bicycle knows how to countersteer. If not you are not able to control your bike
My grandson went bicycling 2 yrs old and learned countersteering! Now he is 4 and doing mountainbiking, still countersteering to make any turn!
There are some good demo's of countersteering... the reality is that on two wheels there's no such thing as NOT counterstereering (regardless of speed). Fortnine showed that even going slow it's impossible to turn the bike to the right if you don't countersteer left (he did it by limiting the bars so they couldn't steer left at all... and no matter what he did he couldn't get the bike to go right). The reason it's hard for people to wrap their head around is because we do it intuitively and don't even realize we're doing it.
Good vid
Riders are going to figure this out quickly on their first at-speed curve because there is no other way to navigate a curve without counter-steering. Good to drill this into your head so it becomes automatic: push on the bars on the side you want to go.
That isn’t true. Many riders don’t actually counter steer. They lean by shifting weight and then turn in with bars to catch the falling bike. You see mostly new riders and rider that are afraid of leaning do it.
Counter steering becomes more intuitive because humans are inherently lazy and it takes less effort. It also results in a faster turn in rate multiplied by increasing speed. They will eventually learn to do it whether they are aware of the terms and techniques or not.
If you someone not counter steering it’s a big sign the rider is new.
@@PetrolJunkie It is extremely difficult to get a bike into a lean unless you countersteer. Next to impossible.
@@kjellg6532 Not true. Not true at all. Grab a bicycle and just lean in and turn the bars the direction you want to turn. The bike will turn in just fine. A motorcycle is just a larger and heavier bicycle. It works just fine.
Stop believing everything you hear from a CZcamsr and actually study the physics. Counter steering just makes the motorcycle tip in faster. That is all it does. Nothing more.
@@PetrolJunkie Try to sit up on a bicycle not moving. Keep it in balance just by shifting your weight. It is next to impossible. When riding a bike you constantly correct the balance by bringing the bike back under you. To do this you constantly turn the bike in the direction you tend to fall, you countersteer. Being a kid learning to control a bicycle is simply learning your tiny little body to coutntersteer without knowing any word for it. To ride a bicycle or a motorbike is a continual process of countersteering all the time the wwels are rolli’n.
@@kjellg6532 There's your problem. You are using the terms wrong. That isn't counter steering.
It's fine, a lot of people make this mistake. It seems intuitive to say that you are countering the fall with steering. That's not what counter steering means.
Counter, in this context, means the opposite. The opposite of what? Steering. You are steering in the opposite direction that you want to go.
If you want to go right. You push on the right bar end turning the front wheel to the left. That is the "counter" part. You are steering the opposite direction first to break the balance of the bike and make it want to fall towards the right. Then you turn the bars right to "catch" the bike so it doesn't fall all the way to the gound.
What is actually happening is this: When you turn the bars left first you generate a moment of centrifugal force that tries to push the motorcycle over low-side towards the direction you want to turn. You have to then turn the bars right to generate centrigugal force in the opposite direction, try to push the motorcycle over high side, of the fall to balance it.
You can in fact just lean right and turn the bars right. Counter steering only makes the bike tip into the corner faster. At higher rates of speed it makes corning notably easier to counter steer. You don't counter steer at slow speed because the bike will tip faster than you can recover it. It still works at highway speed just fine.
Trust me, a lot of people don't counter steer and they turn just fine. They don't need to because they aren't trying to carve corners. That is the only time when counter steering is necessary because of how fast you need the bike to react.
Yes, if we were riding brooms…
But seriously if your bike is upright and you are doing a tight U-turn in a parking lot, there’s no point in counter steering at two or 3 miles an hour. I would grant you that at 5 per hour you might begin counter steering.
But perhaps we should let Kevin, the guru of motorcycle skills and training weigh in on this one.
You countersteer any 2-wheeled vehicle from the moment the wheels are starting to roll. There is no practical alternative.
But its counterintuitive, especially during a panic situation the rider will do the exact opposite thus going where they didnt intend to go!
Push, push , push!!
"Press" to initiate lean...
I find it isn't just new riders that don't fully understand this concept, even if they've heard about it and talk about it, because how else could they still run wide in a turn and off the road.
Yeah it's because they don't own it and haven't practiced it while consciencely thinking about it.
If you can ride a motorcycle or bicycle without falling down, you are already counter steering, that's just the way it works. Going into too much detail is just going to confuse newbies and make them over think it. Counter steering is inate, doesn't need to be taught.
Tell that to the under-skilled rider who tries to direct a motorcycle with only body lean through a corner in extremis right before a crash
@@BradS1958 Maybe these "under skilled" riders should spend some time on back country dirt roads and drop their bike a few times before they go buy some machine to impress and instead get into trouble. Any new rider that starts out on a bike that is more than 400cc is looking for trouble. A rider needs to learn to respect their machine before they do something stupid.
I know old riders don't believe in counter steering and will not even try it.
Push right go right
Push left go left
Makes it faster swerving.
If these old riders are able to follow the turns of the road, they are countersteering. Only way to get into a turn!
It's not a secret if you rode a bicycle hard. You just do it, no thinking needed. I did as a kid and I had a lot of fun. Don't think, do.
Centrifugal forces of the spinning tire has more effect than the placement of the tire on the ground. A spinning disc, when forced to turn left, will tilt and turn in the opposite direction. The faster it spins, the more pronounced the effect. On a motorcycle, the front tire then also leans the bike over. The rear tire does the same thing, though at a slightly delayed time.
At low speeds, under 8 mph. There is no Centrifugal effect and the bike goes in the direction you turn. Somewhere in between 8 and 20mph, there is a weird speed where steering forces are unpredictable.
No, the gyro effect is very small at slow speeds. The predominant leaning force is gravity acting about the line between the tire contact patches. And counter-steering works right down to 0 mph.
Gravity pulls the bike down. Centrifugal force pushes back to keep a leaning motorcycle from falling. The gyroscopic forces of the wheels spinning are stabilizing while vertical. The reason the bike stands up when throttle is because you add centrifugal force until the gyroscope effect takes over due gravity being straight down centered over the contact patch and no centrifugal force.
Literally, every movement of a motorcycle has a force e and counterforce relationship.
"Secrets of counter steering". Just steer out ot the turn so you bank into it. If you know how to ride, you don't even think about it, you just do it.
This is a video nobody needed. Kids learn it when they are 5.
If that was true the leading cause of single vehicle crashes would not be in corners.
1. Curves are a ”where” , not a “what”.
2. NHTSA study shows number one cause of motorcycle accidents to be failure to yield.
3. Even when we use your definition of “what”, NHTSA study places location of most motorcyle accidents at intersections, not curves… not sure where you get that information from.
4. Even if we assume #1 cause of crashes are “curves”, this is not due to riders not knowing/understanding counter steering. Applying your logic to cars, would you say that drivers crash in curvers because they don’t how to turn steering wheel?
O Lord, there is one in every video on CZcams. The one that thinks he’s always the smartest one in the room and everyone hates. Probably doesn’t have a single friend and coworkers avoid like the plague. Knows so much he should have his own channel but so disliked no one would watch. If you know it all, what are you doing here critiquing this man’s video? My first time ever on a motorcycle I almost crashed in a curve. I froze and didn’t really know how to make it lean around the curve even after years on a bicycle. I absolutely had no problem yielding or stopping at an intersection and never had a problem there.
I believe Kevin since I experienced it myself and have learned a little from him and his videos. Especially his vids on handling heavy bikes and correct turning from a stop and using the brakes and placing foot down instead of both feet. Great advice from the man and I recommended his vids to both my sons when they started riding, and the one that was struggling is a very good rider now from watching Kevin’s videos and I’m grateful for them and him.
@@howdiedoodie8587 Looks like the person you are talking about is yourself, sorry to hear about your friend issue. I can tell by how much information you shared, as you would have nobody to talk to. Please accept my apologies for hurting your feelings, thay was not my intention. I would also not recommend riding while in this state, it can be dangerous.
I wish you would have shared your riding experience sooner, it would have settled the debate. I’ll make sure to check with u next time. Ride safe.
I am not suggesting you are not a great rider and instructor, I am an experienced rider but I don't see the advantage of counter steering.I have riden a big cruiser coast to coast done the tail of the dragon the Blue Ridge Pkwy I just lean , to each his own.
Counter steering is the only way a motorcycle turns...if you are riding through corners you are counter steering whether you realize it or not.
To get into a lean you have to countersteer, simple as that. You have been countersteerig since the first day you were able to ride a bicycle.
Good teachings, ugly bike lol.
I seen a slingshot yesterday with the same exact dash as that bike. 🤢