Leave Toxic Positivity at Church | Belief It Or Not
Vložit
- čas přidán 8. 05. 2024
- Christians say that they are the only ones who know true happiness.
Are they actually happy? Can former believers be happy?
Created by Trevor Poelman
Special thanks to the Better Internet Initiative
Subscribe bit.ly/beliefitornot | Make sure to enable ALL push notifications!
Watch the latest videos: • Newest | Belief It Or Not
Watch More Belief It Or Not:
Most Viewed: • Newest | Belief It Or Not
Docu-series: • Docu-series | Belief I...
Full Podcast Episodes: • Full Podcast Episodes ...
Check out the new merch store! belief-it-or-not-shop.fourthw...
Follow Belief It Or Not:
Facebook: / beliefitornot
Instagram: / beliefitornotpodcast
Twitter: / beliefitornot
TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@beliefitornot
Patreon: / beliefitornot
Extremely wealthy man explains how his joy doesn't come from his physical circumstances.
“Money doesn’t buy happiness.”
- man in a Ferrari
At that point.... he's done forgot what it was like to be miserable.
☝🏾✨ BINGO
This is what makes Christianity, especially conservative Christianity, so insidious. These people have an agenda when they preach this blind positivity when you think about it.
It's all part of not questioning your masters. Don't worry about the politicians taking away your rights, just be grateful for what you have. Don't worry about the corporations that lower wages while charging more for everything, just be joyous all the time.
Religion, the tool of tyrants.
It really shows the hypocrisy and the insidiousness of Christianity, especially conservative Christianity.
It's all part of the agenda of preaching this toxic positivity. Don't worry about corporations lowering wages and charging more for everything, just be grateful for what you DO have. Don't worry about the politicians taking away your rights, just be joyous!
Religion, the tool of tyrants.
My Christian mother visited me last week and went on and on about how "most people seek happiness but *I* seek joy" - and then proceeded to gripe and moan about service at a restaurant
It’s interesting how a number of Christians will say that and sell the Jesus Brand of Toxic Positivity and, at the same time, also be so full of rage, contempt, and anger when protesting women/AFAB people getting @bortions or LGBTQ+ people wanting to ensure that their rights aren’t eroding away…
Oh the beautiful irony. The great thing is regardless of your belief system , you can see the hypocrisy and mental mess of people through their behavior. Hope you and your family doing well right now.
@ScienceNow-Yes, definitely but more specifically how people use it to rationalize their messy mentalities and actions. Religion is a tool that many people abuse then showcase weird behaviors. People can believe what they want but they seriously need to self evaluate and be sane.
Next time that happens tell her she’s attracting the devil 😂
btw the service she complained about was: she got charged an extra $1.50 for a topping and the waitress was clearly super tired (but still nice)
I frankly believe it's ok to sit with your sadness, your anger, and your suffering. Just don't build a house there. Pain is a message that your body is injured. Sadness, anger, and other negative emotions are the same. Give yourself time to heal.
Would you say that to a mentally ill or depressed person?
@@RobertoMenacho-kg8tbAs a person with depression, that is awesome advice. Stick to your lane bucko
@@RobertoMenacho-kg8tbwdym with this
@RobertoMenacho-kg8tb thank you for asking the necessary question
Just go at ur own pace
One of my favorite Facebook groups is called “It’s never your successful friends posting the inspirational quotes”
That seems to be true and thinking about it- that's really disturbing.
When people aren't doing well they need something and if inspirational quotes are all they have then they're really in trouble.
I might reach out to more people posting that crap.
@@theodorebear6714 There is a good book on the subject called Bright-sided: How the Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America Hardcover - October 13, 2009 by Barbara Ehrenreich (Author)
I was the most depressed when I was a Christian because I am Autistic and I was constantly told by Church people that if I had enough faith I wouldn't be Autistic and that I should give my Autism to god. I was also told by Church people many times that as a woman it was my duty to get married someday and have children and they told me that no one loves or marries a disabled person. I remember when I was a Christian praying so many times for god to forgive me for existing because I never felt good enough. I was suicidal for a long time as a Christian because I just couldn't be what I thought god wanted me to be... I am so glad that I don't believe in any of that bullshit anymore. I am much happier now, I still have days (and even weeks on end) where I have bouts of depression but at least now I don't have to think about some deity judging me for not being happy all of the time.
😌I'm happy that you got out of that toxic church.
It's so appalling that they blame us for being who we are as human beings an how we can't control what dissabillity we have 🤢, (I'm also a fellow autistic so ✋ high-five) but anyway stay safe out there, and always express yourself an embrace what makes You an everyone human, take care of yourself till we meet again ☀
On the opposite side, my mom blames my autism for me NOT believing in god. So we really can’t win
"give your autism to God." if only it was that easy😅
Amen!!! 😊
Omg man! Sorry you had such a bunch of invalidation. What a drag!
After my divorce, years ago, i had to keep telling my aunt that life isnt always peaches and cream. I had left the church, my husband had left me and took my kids and my home, leaving me with literally nothing. And here was my aunt trying to be wayyyy too positive. Ugh. "I'll be your shoulder to cry on" is a lot better than "look on the bright side", and "be grateful".
Sometimes a "This fucking sucks, I'm with you" said with your whole chest means infinitely more than an avalanche of toxic positivity.
I'm so much happier without religion that's so wrong what your husband did but you sound like a great person I'm sure you will find a incredible new husband that will be 10 times better than the last I never thought I would find a good woman then I found my wife she is everything I ever dreamed of and more!
@@l0rfTHIS. So very much.
In the wake of my husband's death, friends saying "this sucks so much, I wish I could fix it" and crying with me, meant so much. The people telling me that I should "give my pain to gawd" didn't help at all.
@@l0rf DUDE LITERALLY, THATS ALL I WANT. I dont want to talk to my family anymore because I'm always told to be grateful for what I have, or to pray, or "SOMEONE HAS IT WORSE THAN YOU." basically "shut up, you shouldn't feel bad".
@@l0rf so all times?
“When life squeezes you, what comes out.” Blood. And I believe it’s salty.
Tastes like nails and screws.
Taste like a wet spicy nail
Poetry
Shit, piss, other bodily fluids, and then blood
Blood and pus, mostly.
"It's like they've never seen the movie Inside Out."
Mic drop, pretty much the whole video.
Inside out is amazing and the sequel comes out soon
My favorite movie 😊
TYT closes the hashtag operationjoy. Enough said.
I cant remember one bible verse suggesting Jesus' joy or happiness. I do remember him weeping, being angry, suffering.
Damn.
Because Jesus was a person with human emotions like everyone else.
He doesn't like you evangelicals for trump and big money in Hollywood. I DONT LIKE YOU EITHER!
This is so relatable. My sister was killed in a domestic violence incident. For her eulogy, the preacher’s subject was “It’s All Good,” and he quoted the “all things work together…” scripture. I was so angry.
Wow...
In Matthew they say, "
“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted."
And first John 7 through 21 seems like what I would say as a priest, which I am not.
I can utterly see why you didn't enjoy the sermon.
I don’t think that’s the right time, place, or application for that verse. (despite being agnostic myself) I’m terribly sorry for your loss. I hope you’re doing OK.
My condolences. You have a right to feel unbelievably angry and hurt and upset.
I hope that the perpetrator was at least arrested.
This is what started me off deconstructing. By that time I had totally lost connection to what I was truly feeling...
I just hate that all these people are being duped so hard. It's like "Be grateful if you have your bare necessities met. Now you can afford to put a lil more in the basket this time."
“Shut Up and Give Us Your Money!!”
The wealthy megachurch pastors telling us to just be grateful for what little we have, I'm sure there isn't a political agenda in there. Naaah.
Exactly. Screw those bastards.
@@Rawnblade13what will help my badly bruised heart and soul is a bowl of hot miso ramen to help me sleep better. You can’t force someone to be grateful for them guilt tripping and gaslighting you, because that’s not how gratitude really works.
I've said for years now that I want a shirt that says "choose rage" in a frilly cursive font, so I'm ready for this video
I would buy this shirt.
Make it, and I'll buy one.
Welp, I know what my next shirt will be 😂
My cousin and I seriously considered starting a business making vulgar greeting cards. That shirt sounds amazing too.
My son chooses rage every morning and to be honest I'm kinda down for it.
The feeling of seeing "uploaded 38 seconds ago" when I'm feeling a bit down and seeing a new belie t or not is ss nice
Same I’m feeling crummy today. I hope things get better for you.
Me too. ❤
@@rachelthompson7487 the hopelessness is real... I hope youre having a better time now, three hours later.
I got an 'uploaded 11 seconds ago' once and I was ecstatic
I get so excited everytime!! I work at a hospital and watch in bits & pieces through out the day. A Belief it or Not Day is always a good day.
Companies: makes social media addictive and upsetting
Same companies: suggests spending less time on social media if it's upsetting to you
@ScienceNow- I was pointing out the hypocrisy, darling. I don't think anyone likes marketing except for the occasional free sample. You can calm down now
Ah, the "Stop Hitting Yourself" gambit. Brilliant!
Guy who yelled "YEAH!" after "that's why you're fingers aren't blue" is definitely *not* fighting circulation issues right now and certainly *wouldn't* be embarrassed if he were
As soon as I heard that, I thought, “Well, _someone_ doesn’t have POTS.”
I had a coworker today who was struggling to get enough air when they were explicitly trying to breathe enough, while sitting in a chair doing nothing.
It astounded me that the preacher took health as a certainty. It not. Really really not. Then again, when my mom couldn't get enough air to get off the couch, we didn't go to church. Might be some selection bias there...
Trevor thank you for being an ally to women. And to queer people too. I hate when people use the effeminate voice as an insult and I wanted to thank you for calling him out on that
"he doesn't want all your time, but he does want you to be thinking about him and praying to him constantly" sir please define 'constantly' and 'all' and 'time' for me 😂
Ironically Marge's speech to Lisa always makes me tear up. That's one of my favorite moments. I've always tried to validate kid's feelings and I think its because of Mr. Rogers and Marge Simpson.
Validating and acknowledging the emotions of children is _so_ important for healthy development.
It’s such a bummer when parents punish their little kids for feeling “crabby” or “fussy.” They’re human. We all have off days. Let ‘em live.
Being authentic is so powerful. Authentically atheist. Authentically queer. Authentically a weird nerd. Each of those realizations and journeys of acceptance were incredibly gratifying, sparking true euphoria. Thanks, Marge, for encouraging me to be me, whatever that is.
Here's a quote from The Boondocks that clearly serves as some advice on how can we do to improve the world without toxic positivity
_"What do you do when you can’t do nothing, but there’s nothing you can do? You do what you can.”_
Stoicism in a nutshell.
Was not expecting a brief clip of Marg telling Lisa it’s okay to be sad and that her family is there for her to make me cry two minutes before going back to work. But here we are today…
Thankfully I watched this after work, but come on Trevor. I often listen to these on the morning commute, you can't tug on the heartstrings line that!
I remember one of these toxic positive preachers trying to do their "thing" at the university I was attending at the time. His entire shtick was making me feel sick, and I wanted to speak out. For good or bad (I'm leaning towards "good" in this case, mainly because I was a much worse speaker back then), someone else beat me to it. When the preacher said "Be thankful to God for letting you be here," someone - I never saw who it was, but this someone sounded male to me - asked loudly (not shouting, mind you), "Why should I?" That caught the preacher off-guard, and this someone did not give the preacher any opening. The words he said are forever burned into my memory:
"You're telling me that I should thank God for _not_ striking me down and killing me in any of the *_MILLIONS_* of ways available to him? That I should be glad that God chose to not suddenly stop my heart and have me fall down dead... just because his whim said so? That makes me God's hostage. Why the hell should I be grateful to someone who, for all intents and purposes, has planned out my murder, and I can never know when he is going to carry it out? Screw you and your Stockholm Syndrome. Someone needs to arrest God and drag him to trial before throwing him in whatever the divine supermax is - and ideally, *_NOW."_*
Hearing those words was more cathartic than I could have imagined. That was my "But I feel like it" Lisa moment. A part of me wishes I could have said it then, but knowing that I was not the only one who felt that way (and frankly, he probably put it much better than I would have then) has been enough.
I just did my finals in my theater program. We had to write, produce, sell, and present our production. My team and I wrote a synopsis about a group of young adults, each dealing with trauma who found a rituel that would be able to erase the bad memories. In the end, they lost all their memories.
During the final act, my character, who is a twist on the goddess Lethe, arrives centre stage and give each character their memories back one by one. Even making one relive the death of her sister. In the end, she did all of that because she knows that everything someone's been through is what makes them whole and that those pains need to be felt to be able to continue living.
So basically, a couple of drama students were able to understand this lesson more than the adults always preaching about being happy.
That sounds like a cool play. I'd def watch it
@@jaehenlee7633 Thank you! It was very fun do to while stressful sometimes.
"Just don't die"
Thanks pastor furtick, I'll tell that to my relative whose having open heart surgery today and has a low chance of surviving.
God the ignorance to make a joke like that to an entire room of ppl u don't know the circumstances of.
I hope your relative is alright. Open heart surgery is a big deal.
"Focus on your blessings, not your problems."
9 times out of 10 said by someone with overwhelmingly more blessings than problems to someone with overwhelmingly more problems than blessings, and they say it not because they actually think the person they're talking to has so much to be grateful for, but because if they can get that person to shut up about their problems, that'll make it so much easier for people that came into this world with all the blessings to ignore those people's problems.
I fell into the toxic positivity trap about a decade ago, out of fear of creating negativity in my life, including the fear of losing people (again). Reality is, I ended up being consumed by fear that took over my life, and lost folks anyway. Ironically, my childhood in church was overtly focused on doom and gloom, not positivity.
In the span of a couple months I went from a new professional starting my own business to totally disabled due to a major medical event. I was happily working one day, and then BOOM! Admitted to the hospital, multiple surgeries, a week in the ICU and a further month in the hospital followed by reconstructive surgery to repair some of the damage the original surgeries did. Four years later, and I still cannot work. I probably will never be able to work again. My relationship fell apart because I needed a partner who could help take care of me and the person I was with couldn't do that (his own medical issues). I'm stuck in the battle of applying for disability and being told I don't have enough work credits to be able to qualify, but I can't work due to my medical issues and am entirely relying on others to survive. And people are shocked that I'm depressed and often suicidal. Just look on the bright side! You're alive! You survived! You lost literally everything, but you're alive!
I hope that your condition gets cured or improved.
I wish all the good things for you, and f those people telling you to be grateful! You're allowed to be angry & any other thing you need to be.
sometimes if you cross the eithers you can find some healing....
I did the only thing I could do and that was to pray for you. I truly hope things get better, I sincerely do.
Hopefully you will be in a good place soon and your condition improves
Preachers bring me anything but joy.
Been the son of one?
Christians when life is kicking their ass: "I'm in a rough season but God got me." ☺😅
You mean all theists? Pretty much all theists think that way 😂
If it helps them through a rough patch with that idea, what is the harm?
@@hicknopunk Because that mentalty hinders and handicaps your problem-solving skills, which iirc was mentioned in this video.
@@WWZenaDo there is nothing wrong with worshipping in a religion that feels no need to kill people based on their holy book. I find it helpful to once a week confess every sin to God, even if I am talking to thin air,
@@hicknopunk Jesus Christ was a human sacrifice, in case you didn't notice... 1 John 4: 10, among other verses.
" Happy Happy Joy Joy, Happy Happy Joy ...." - Ren & Stimpy
I was expecting that clip, but I'm guessing it was avoided due to the actions of that show's creator.
Poor Ren fighting like hell against the effects of the Happy Helmet that Stimpy created...I felt so bad for him...😄
Ha. That expression immediately came to mind, but for some reason I couldn't recall where it came from. Thanks!
I was never more miserable than when I was a Christian, and I can only really see that in hindsight because it was so vital to my worldview that I be okay. And I really wasn't.
I wonder how many people seeing that scene from the simpsons of Marge saying it’s okay to be sad made them cry, like me. It’s so important to feel ALL things,
It was great for me to see a parent who will violently defend your right to feel all the feelings, to not have to put on an act.
Finally! Trevor is making videos about gods that actually exist. Twitter died for our sins.
Dude! my customer service PTSD is going off! Spent most of my adult life working in bars and restaurants. If you don't vent hard regularly, you will BLOW the FUCK UP on customers.
If you never process your pains and fears they fester. To truly appreciate and enjoy the good things you have to know what it's like when things aren't so good.
I hate that whenever i bring up my honest review and realism about what the current economical state for young people buying a home, I get hit with the "you never know what will happen" or "You're just being too negative, things will work out." Its as if my realistic description of a shitty situation is my own negative interpretation
Also there is a very large and still growing group of people who it emphatically has not worked out for
"Every man is happy until happiness is suddenly a goal."
Yep but them you don't know your happy goal that's true loss
I remember when I first told my parents that I no longer considered myself a Christian, my dad wrote me quite a few letters. On top of saying he was praying for God to "heal my brokenness" he also wrote in one of the letters that I would never feel joy without God. He said even if I thought I was happy, when I laid in bed alone at night I would realize I did not feel joy...
I keep thinking of Classically Abby talking about how only motherhood brings true joy no matter how difficult and miserable it is and everything she’s missing out on but the important thing is that she still knows joy better than us
Reminds me of evangelical influencers constantly talking about how difficult and challenging and tasking marriage is. “But it’s what God wants for us!” It would probably help if y’all knew and actually liked each other.
My parents’ college friends recently lost their only daughter who was only 30. When I saw them after the service, I asked how the funeral went. “Oh it was beautiful, and it wasn’t a funeral, it was a ‘celebration of life’”. They showed me pictures, and the parents who lost their daughter had the biggest smiles out of everyone. It really rubbed me the wrong way. Creepy. Losing your daughter at 30 is a tragedy, nothing else.
Everyone grieves in their own way, tho. Seeing people cheerful at funerals (I am usually one of those people) might seem creepy or insensitive to those who are in mourning, or depending on your view of death. But seeing how a person was loved and remembered can genuinely be a joyful and healing event when you have experienced a tragedy. My intent saying this is not to invalidate your impression. Just saying grief is different for everyone.
@@experimentalwrites3403 I completely agree that everyone deals with these things differently. More context that I might be neglecting to consider is that she had a very rare condition, so maybe it wasn’t very unexpected. You’re right
@@experimentalwrites3403 life can be so morbid, it’s hard to go with it sometimes
People can view things pretty differently, I don't see death as a bad thing on itself, so the way I would mourn someone would feel unacceptable for some people, I see so many people suffering quite a lot, so sometimes dying can be a relief, specially to some people who are very sick and in a lot of pain, things are not black and white and every situation is different, if the parents were fine with it, I don't think there is a reason to be angry, maybe she lived to be 30 against the odds.
Man I feel that part about these people jumping through all kinds of hoops to delegitimize your happiness in their eyes. Recently going through the "having to socialize with my Christian family" blues. They're not by any means the worst people, but... Not being able to share the most meaningful parts of yourself with people that swear up and down that they love you is rough.
Yeah that's rough. You would expect the ones older and more experienced than you to have some emotional intelligence, but it is often not so.
As my aunt always says, "sometimes it's okay to not be okay"
Or as Hollyhock puts it "don't feel bad for feeling bad"
this means your aunt knows something that not everybody understands.
“Gratitude is an important practice but not at the expense of other emotions.”
Trevor you are my new therapist!
My favorite line from that Simpsons episode is "The Blues isn't about making yourself feel better. It's about making everybody else feel worse. "
😉
*"This guy gets it. He's gettin' angry. Angry is good. Angry gets sh!t done."*
Revolution is the solution.
Solidarity ✊
So much "positivity" I was instilled with by people of faith is exactly the type of fluff you see in facebook posts.
It basically all boils down to "don't be sad, it could always get worse", something that was the opposite of comforting to my anxious self. Honestly I can't fathom how that sort of thing helps anyone beyond people who literally have nothing to worry about in their lives.
Or my favorite- "It's okay, you haven't hit rock bottom."
@@PraiseTheFSMonster and god forbid you actually hit rock bottom, because they'll either abandon you or use it as an opportunity to proselytize. _Ask me how I know._
It's always that "don't be sad - Jesus loves you and won't let you suffer too much" bullshit that was spoon-fed to me since I was a kid up until my 20s - I *HATE* that garbage because it stops you from getting angry at those forces that are keeping us down: the politicians that have sold our futures to bug corporations for a few campaign donations, the industrial poisons that are being released into our air and water supply, the ever-increasing amount of resources being spent on the MIC so that they can go kill people for their oil and much, much more!
No - it's time that we got angry and let the whole world know!
It helps me plenty. Everyone's different.
A Jewish perspective that I'll always remember, that was way healthier than "things could be worse": "Everybody has a pack of troubles, but if everybody put their packs in a pile and were told to pick one out, they'd pick out their own."
Not "things could be worse," but "your troubles are the ones you know best, so how bad can it be?"
i have a huge love for horror and densely emotional media. it has helped me feel the emotions within myself that i have pushed down due to intense depression ive battled for years. nothing makes me feel more empty, more hollow, more alone, or more scared than when someone asks me why i dont just chose to be happy. it rips a hole into my chest every time.
One of the most appalling things that I ever read was a book my mother had on her coffee table. For reference she is evangelical. I picked it up and casually skimmed through it. It was about a missionary in India. This missionary was describing the lepers that he was ( supposedly) caring for. This man wrote of the joy these lepers had through their suffering and how it was good and godly to suffer.😱 It was awful. That's my mom's ethos though: finding joy in suffering= good. It reminds me of why I have very limited contact with her.
Was that written by mother Theresa? That was her stchick as well. That is why Christopher Hitchens did not like her.
Always makes me wonder if those people could do that under the same circumstances.
No wonder they can excuse hierarchy and poverty. They're used to excusing away exploitation of others' misery as a source of joy.
@@agiraffe3673that's kind of the catholic church stchick, suffering is given by God, in their opinion, and God would not give a cross someone cannot bear, so they thing it's about spiritual and emotional growth, so helping is going against God's will.
Trevor, you're so much more emotionally healthy than a lot of Christians I know. You helped me see how "full solar spirituality" is destructive and the full range of feelings are necessary and need to be expressed.
God bless the Moon and the Nightshifters.
Steven Furtick has that all time movie/TV bad guy look. He'd make a great tough guy villain.
Church people: happiness is fleeting and seeking it out is hedonistic, true lasting joy comes only through Jesus
Also church people: Cheer up, god loves you and works everything for good, choose happiness!
my live reaction and response: 🤔🙄😑
I've struggled with depression nearly my whole life, having very few people I could really relate to, having cancer and other conditions, to be told that there is a positive in every negative really didn't stick with me, there wasn't a lot I felt I needed to thank God for, therefore worrying I wasn't ever truly Christian. Deconstruction was a long process for me but I am ultimately much happier with a pretty strong understanding of myself. Yes, my past is riddled with regrets and missed opportunities but the knowledge that my path is truly my own is such a powerful feeling that I wish for everyone out there deconstructing as well. You don't have put it up to a big man in the sky to fix everything as long as you're good enough. Everyone deserves to be happy, not just those who attack other people's joy because of what they believe.
Same but I also suffer from ADHD
I suffer from Major Depressive Disorder and social phobia. The entire time I was growing up, my dad would constantly say, "Smile. It improves your face value." It always made me feel so much worse.
thank you trevor i’m struggling a lot lately with my mental illness but your channel gives me so much comfort and has genuinely helped me a lot
I have "friends" who won't listen to me if I have something to complain about.
I'm told "You have a perfect life. You have a wonderful husband, talented & successful child, you don't have to work, you have nothing to complain about so I won't hear this"
It's nice to know I shouldn't have anything that bothers me in my "perfect" life
So invalidating. Ugh!
What problems could you possibly have if you have a great husband and a gifted kid rather than a SPED one?
I'm asking out of curiosity, not condescension, because I know many women who have escaped bad boyfriends/husbands.
❤❤❤
@@linagreenlyfe6705 Wow
That's awful and I'm sorry people say that to you, nobody has a perfect life, you can have an enviable life and still have problems, it's not the oppression olympics.
I've been deconstructing fir about a decade now and still struggle with religious trauma and guilt, especially surrounding being a 27 y/o woman who is unmarried and has a child. Even though I know the guilt and pressure put on me to settle down and start a family in my early 20's is all make-believe, it still weighs heavy on my mind. That, and the insomnia caused but fear of hell. Your videos have helped comfort qnd reassure me that I'm doing nothing wrong and am right where I need to be
Hi, I am 25 female and the fear of hell can be paralyzing but what has helped me is learning about other religions hells and not just as what these "other religions" believed but trying to see it from the perspective of the members who had a deep fear of these bad after life and lived according to that. The more of them you hear from the idea that Jews thought they just went to sleep with their fathers or that some Muslims think there is an end to it. It starts to feel like just one of these stories and you don't fear purgatory because you were never taught to fear it
John McArther talking about JOY! He is always that grandpa sitting on his chair looking down on everyone’s mistakes.
Being content and not making waves makes Christianity run.
I became depressed in my early twenties and it got worse and worse as I tried to force good feelings onto myself and it didn’t work. And now I know that there wasn’t a hidden meaning that I missed somehow, I feel so relieved and happy.
Oooo I heard a quote that reminded of of when you talked about missing red flags. I don't know who said this quote but it goes something like "If you only wear rose coloured glasses, you'll never see the red flags"
Sounds like a quote from the show Bojack Horseman: "You know, it's funny. When you look at someone through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags."
😮😮😮
I was wondering if/when we'd start talking about the connection between toxic positivity and the church
One of the most memorable messages I've read for religious positivity was in the book The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom. She was in a concentration camp during WWII, in a dirty disgusting room with a lot of other women, and her sister Betsy would lead them all in prayer, telling them to be grateful for everything, even the rats. Well, it turned out the disgusting conditions were the only reason the officers left them alone there, so the moral of the story was that God gave them the rats to protect them. Corrie survived to write her book and travel around as a motivational speaker, but her sister Betsy died in the camp.
I do think it's okay for people who are genuinely suffering with no possible escape, to try to stay positive, just to survive and maintain their sanity. In that situation I might even try to trick myself into believing in God again. But it's always better to see things as they really are. If there's anything we can do to make things better, we shouldn't just accept a bad situation.
Tbh sounds very manipulative. Why did god put them in that concentration camp in the first place? And what’s the evidence that they were “left alone” because of the rats? Sounds a lot like a post hoc rationalization.
Mind, I agree that even a lie can be extremely helpful to boost morale in extreme situations but turning the horrors of the war into an advertisement for god is despicable. As Trevor said in the video that attitude only promotes passivity and acceptance of abuse. “We don’t have to do everything we can to prevent wars: god will send us rats to “protect” us.”
Oh I hate when I get called depressed if I am not happy chirpy wonderful every second. That is exhausting and I think physically impossible without chemicals of some sort. There is a lot to be happy about. And a lot happiness still requires work to achieve. Or might not be achievable at all. I will experience whatever emotions I feel are necessary. That does not make me diseased. It makes me a human.
“You can’t always have more, but you could always have less.” You’re right. I probably couldn’t possibly have more head pain, but I sure could have a lot less!
I needed to hear this, tbh. I’m one of those toxic positivity people. Guess I did keep that with me from the church. Though for me personally, I try to put a positive spin on everything I can in my life since it’s the only one I get. I will try to tone it down and recognize when it’s not what the person I’m talking to wants to hear.
I’m a very positive person too so I get it.
That Simpson episode with Lisa and Marge talking about happiness in the car brought a tear to my eye. How Marge told her after picking Lisa back up , you don't have to smile and she said but I feel like smiling was beautiful.
Same here! Just that scene is
That Simpsons clip made me cry. As a new mom, a former sad kid and a current sad adult I dread the day my child cannot deal with the sad thoughts. I can only do so much and I hope I can give them all the help it took me years to figure out alone
When I worked at LinkedIn, they actually had a woman whose title was "Happiness Cheerleader." I learned about her the hard way, after we had a conversation when she approached me at my desk. The interaction is below, and you can tell who is who.
Hey, why aren't you happy?
What?
You're not smiling.
I typically don't.
So you're not happy?
I didn't say that?
Why are you sad?
I didn't say that?
Why are you angry?
I'm not, but we are quickly heading that direction.
Why can't you smile, then?
Why can't I just.... BE? Is it okay to BE? Can't I just BE? I'm trying to focus on my work, so I don't really have the energy to also focus on putting on a smile for you.
[And then, I got called into HR]
So glad you made this one. Toxic positivity is so pervasive. One of the kindest things my grandmother ever told me was that it's always ok to cry.
"The engine light is there for a reason. Ignoring it will only make it worse in the future."
👏🔥
Hey William Lane Craig, I'm an atheist and I'm unhappy not because I'm not a Christian, but because I have untreated mental illness. Hope this helps!
I’m so much happier now that I myself am in charge of my identity, my life and my future - not a big person in the sky!
Billy Graham was scary when I was growing up, he still is. Anyone else ?
Yes
I prefer to subscribe to the Charles Templeton method of apologetics: you hold your revivals, but I'll stick to Journalism.
That pastor using drugs as a way to communicate joy is especially telling.
My sister deliberately overdosed on heroin during COVID, and it was a MONTH before I knew. But I should just like... Thank God for ME being here and push down the memories and grief that the pastor so graciously reminded me of?
Yeah, thanks. I'll keep that in mind, pal...
I truly appreciate this as I just got this speech yesterday. There I was, spending hours trying to make my coworker understand how toxic the boss is, only to realize midway that my coworker is the toxic boss' toxic partner-in-crime. She told me to think positively and gave me a Proverbs verse. Since I'm all about standing up for myself these days, I don't even know what she said because I was suddenly overcome by a string of "NOPE"s and "ABSOLUTELY NOT"s. I told her I'm an atheist and I refuse to follow a message of toxic positivity when I just explained how my boss is ABUSIVE. What now, missy? How are you going to get me back in the cult, huh?
It’s the same mentality that compels them to say “at least you’re not 6 feet under”. To people who are on the verge of trying to “game over” themselves.
I just had to respond to the opening. I definitely feel overwhelmed with negativity these days; as someone who is trans I feel constantly attacked for the radical act of existing, which is a state of affairs that's always up for debate. And that's just the broader national discussion, nevermind problems in my personal life. Seeking out positivity is something I actively do, in order to remind myself that there is good in the world.
But I do this by seeking out good things. Recently I've been on a Fred Rogers kick, I watched him as a kid, right on the edge of when memories started forming properly, and rediscovering him now and finding his genuine compassion has been uplifting and inspiring.
Which is very different from these "motivational" style posts you were showing. Those are patronizing, telling you your unhappiness is your own fault.
Basically what I'm trying to get at is, much like toxic masculinity it's the toxic part that's bad. Positivity is something worth pursuing. Even as a trans woman, I'll happily say that masculine can be a good thing to be. But stay away from the poison wrapped up in something good.
Thanks for this one. So much of my cult’s “work upon the self” was based mostly on repressing your emotions. We called that an aspect of our “sacrifice for humanity” because we were no longer being our mechanical, habitual selves which only caused us and others around us suffering. So if we “indulged” in expressing or feeling our pain it was a selfish, egoic choice and we deserved our suffering.
Super cool. Been out for 6 years now so doing better. But really enjoyed this video in particular. Cheers
The way Furtick walks around and grins, so smugly, has been off-putting for a while already. It's a confidence that says "yes, these people are completely under my control. I'm the best!"
Praise Jesus (lol) that you dropped this video when you did. I've been out of stuff to watch for days now 😂
“Gratitude is the gateway drug for joy.”
WTF 🤣
11:50 My pastor used to use the “happiness is happenings, joy comes from the lord” argument ALL THE TIME. Until now because of the way he said it I thought he had come up with it, and he never stated the contrary to my knowledge.
As an ex-Evangelical Christian who's having the country turning into an Evangelical Christian majority nation (Brazil) I need to confess how these sermos resemble the ones we've got here a lot and they seem a lot like stand up comedy shows.
This was such a nice video, thank you for covering this topic. I've been commenting more on videos in the last year since my son died, because so many of your videos in the last year have felt perfectly timed for me, and I just want to show my appreciation. The Christians in my life truly have been so uncomfortable with what happened to us, because they're so used to this "It could be worse" mindset. But many of them honestly can't imagine worse, so they end up being somewhere mentally quite painful... or they're in complete denial about his death and basically want to brush it off because we'll have more kids (no one knows that) and we'll see him in heaven/he's with Jesus (nope nope nope). So, it's always nice when someone's just willing to say, "Shit sucks." Because it does.
I'm so sorry for your situation. If I could, I would reach through the screen and offer you a hug.
What is equally toxic as "always be happy" is "always be kind". Yes. Granted, it's good being good to each other, but sometimes we can't communicate with kindness, because some people don't understand the language of kindness.
In spite of the negativity on social media, I still maintain my accounts to connect with friends, and play games.
Learning to sit with my feelings is what took the longest after deconstructing. Being sad was treated the same way having doubts was. One can do that for a short while but then you better reach the correct conclusions or demeanor. And when I couldn’t do that is where a lot of discussion happened around me which made things worse.
I was more depressed as a Christian, I was also told I had anger issues while I was Christian. Constantly being told I should have joy no matter what and feeling my emotions shouldn't happen any longer then a moment and eventually I became numb to every feeling I had and I went on auto pilot. I would still smile, laugh, etc but there was no feeling behind them, just empty. This is where I got by people telling me to not complain and to always have joy.
Yeah - it's ok to be angry, it's ok to have a degree of anxiety about the future and it's ok to have remorse about what we are losing as a society as it circles the drain! We have feelings that aren't "positive" as it's not a bad thing to let them be known!
I was born in 88 and I remember my older siblings doing the “Dave’s Not Here” skit.
Trevor, I would like to share a little of my story:
Four years ago we lost my Dad to cancer. With his loss I only have my Mom left having lost all grandparents by 2017. Through the 2 years of his attempted treatment I had to maintain a veneer of being solid so that when my Mom fell apart, I could keep her going. So for 6 nearly years I pushed all of it down and occasionally it caused a critical mass meltdown. Cut to April of this year and I just collapsed mentally. It started small but then there was just this fog that I couldn't push through. After nearly two days of this and getting about 3 hours of sleep I made a call to a support line around 2 AM. I talked to someone for about an hour and set up a doctor's around 8 AM. After a bit of diagnosis I was not surprised to find out that I am clinically depressed. Medication was prescribed, and within a few days that fog had started to lift. Moreover I realized that maybe this was something I had been carrying around for a while and didn't realize the extent of what I was doing to myself. I used laughter to cover pain, inappropriate comments to put others off, and even sex as a substitute for real human connection with people. I'm on a path to wellness and I don't want to go backwards ever again. I truly acknowledged my emotions and am a better man for it.
A lot of the positivity quotes remind of things that I used to post on social media as a teenager. The upbringing that I had always shoved toxic positivity down my throat. Now that I'm older I've learned that all types of feelings are okay.
I really needed this video. Its Teacher Appreciation Week and I've watched all my co-Teachers getting appreciation, compliments, and gifts out the wazoo all week. I guess bc it's my first year I haven't worked enough to deserve any of that. (I'd like to say /s but I honestly dk anymore.)
Earlier today I called my mom to vent about it and she gave me this exact, overly positive, "the only person who can control your emotions is you" talk.
This video feels like actual medicine. I sincerely thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Back in middle school, one teacher in particular had a pretend money system in her class. There were a handful of rules you had to follow to get paid $10 in pretend dollars, one of those rules saying “Be Positive”. If you broke any rule, you lost $2 that day.
Positivity can’t be forced, it’s meant to happen naturally.
You know what makes me happy? When I've been binging your old stuff i've already seen and you upload a new video
I feel this so much both as a former believer and as a trans person. We (trans people) are under constant pressure to demonstrate that we are happy in our identities and with our decision to transition (assuming we medically transition). Showing grief or sadness or doubt, or God help you anger if you're a trans woman (only a man would be angry like that!), is used as evidence against the availability of care for us. It's not enough to just say I'm glad I transitioned and I feel more fulfilled living authentically as myself, but sometimes life is still hard. No, we must constantly perform happiness. It's exhausting.
Omg yes thank you for talking about this! Especially the first part! When I was growing up in the church, as a teen/young adult I started having many "issues" with my moods and no one to help or answer what was going on. That eventually spiraled into me being hospitalized for depression, as I tried committing. Church certainly didn't help (in fact I had a "Christian" insurance plan at the time to try and help save my fam money that did not help cover that at all). The focus as a teen in the church is "don't have sex" (and definitely the focus on not having negative moods/forgiveness) never what to do to be your own self, how to ask for help, how to address feelings of injustice /oppression, etc. It hurt me and was one of the main reasons I left. Even now in college, I am going to therapy and literally relearning how to feel things like anger, because I wasn't allowed to feel it and I am still growing and getting better. But holy shit thank you for talking about this, this means so much to me and you did such a great job on this video! Take care ❤
Hey man don’t know if you’ll see this but I wanted to leave a comment saying the work you put up on this channel has been so incredibly helpful in my deconversion process so thank you so much. I found your channel like 6 months ago and it answered the questions I was struggling with so well, and really took so much of the pain with deconverting away when I watched your backlog talking about fundamental Christian doctrine, morality, and so much else. Anyways that’s all, just wanted to say the work you’ve done here has been and continues to be so helpful, no shot I’d be where I am now without it 🧡
This is the kind of comment I should frame and keep on my desk to remind myself why I do this when I’m having a hard time
Thank you for making this video! I grew up in a home saturated with toxic positivity, both from conservative Christianity and the cult-like aspects of Amway ( my parents were/are in it ). I constantly heard about how I needed to be positive, while at the same time living with emotional and physical abuse from family and bullies at school. I hate that phrase "you need to think positive!". I'd rather be realistic; using positivity when it's realistic to do so while also acknowledging that bad can and will happen.
Again, thank you for making this video and thank you for your channel!
Ren and Stimpy: HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY! JOY JOY JOY!
This is a song about a whale! No! This is a song about being happy.
@@BeliefItOrNotIt's the HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY SONG
So nice to see someone tackle this. It's baked into corporate cultures too, I've held to finance related white collar office jobs, and the don't complain, just be grateful is actually smothering. And it totally does allow for everything you mention here - situations can't get better, people can't recognize problems together, and the threat of reduced happiness and the gaslighting that if ou don't play along you won't succeed is awful.