Your Deconstruction Story Belongs to You | Belief It Or Not
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- čas přidán 29. 04. 2024
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When you tell your story about why you know longer consider yourself a Christian, why do people get mad?
Especially when they asked you to.
Created by Trevor Poelman
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Satan is currently Deconstructing
Her Islamic
"Faith"
@@PraiseTheFSMonster at the foundation... i believe because ive hear Allah Speak and Seen HIM bleed
Here’s the best thing about Ground News: I speak several languages, but not all of them. I can read my news in the languages I speak by reverting it to that language, but it’ll automatically translate everything into English, giving all of us access to international sources of information.
Great video as always
@@christinanicholson1980 That means you need to see a psychiatrist
The more they deny the actual reasons people are leaving, the more they’ll fail to stop people leaving. It’s like a doom spiral and they can’t see it.
They are stuck in denial
Oppressors can't empathize with the oppressed.
Even if they knew why people were leaving they couldn't stop it. They'd never be able to produce the truth they claim to have. And of course if they admit that even more people would leave.
Staying blind in every regard is their only hope.
@@lout160I actually think Christianity has a few viable paths back to its hegemony - if churches were willing to lose support from rich people and redirect all the hate they send towards LGBT people to the rich, I’d bet money people would start flowing back in. But most if not all don’t want to alienate rich adherents so they won’t do that.
People aren’t really as rational as most hope - a story doesn’t have to make sense as long as it speaks to them on an emotional level.
Church leaders don't actually want to prevent deconstruction, because that would require acknowledging at least some core tenants used to control people are actually false. They want the tightest grip possible on the few people they can keep and have a constant population of nonbelievers to pity and demonize, just as your employer needs homelessness to be a real threat so you will do whatever they please.
I grew up in a Atheist house, and I am so glad! deconstuction must be draining! And good on all of you who took the journey! Kudos!
Sometimes I wonder how much happier and mentally healthier I would've been if I had grown up atheist. Sucks that we don't get to pick our path beforehand.
It is VERY draining because it’s not like removing an outer layer of indoctrination, but much closer to a cancer with tendrils rooted much deeper in how we view ourselves and the world.
It’s quite the mind unf3cking of a journey to be sure 🤦🏻♂️🤣
Yes! I can't imagine!And I think for alot of people its easier to stay. Good for you! ❤️
Also, trying to leave is very difficult, especially if that community is so entrenched in your life.
Yes, it is so draining lol it feels like a part time job I’ve had for the last two years
The whole “you weren’t really a Christian” thing is so triggering for me because I WAS. I was it. I did everything right. And god wasn’t there.
Reminds me of this story my dad read about a man who gets elected pope, and then desperately tries to communicate with the god he is supposed to represent, but he cannot find anything.
If you were forced as a child into Christianity and didn't choose as a consenting adult, then maybe they were right.
It’s like when a couple divorces.
You don’t hear people say “guess you were never in love to begin with.”
It’s so condescending and cruel.
Yep, I hear ya
Me too. I wish they had started by telling me that there was a difference between stories to inspire and guide - even with God magic - and the historical reality of events.
I can appreciate the stories. But Rapunzel's magic healing hair is the same as Jesus's healing touch as far as the tales go.
Agree me too❤
Easy access to information is Christianity's worst enemy
information and easy access to information is the weakness of cults
You would think so but we're going on 30+ year of internet being widely available now and the Abrahamic faiths are as strong as ever…
@@MugenHeadNinja I suppose another component is required, which is preventing the cult from snuffing out one's sense of curiosity. In other words the desire for knowledge
@@MugenHeadNinja No way, the nones are growing every year and the percentage of Christians in the US is lower than ever
The reason why religion never sunk in with me when I was a child was because I read and watched lots of science books and documentaries. They offered answers, the Bible didn’t.
At a women’s event, I was asked to share how I left my abuser. It was a story about pain and how I realized my personal strength in my loneliest moments. I had hoped it would be educational on manipulation and victims rights. The first question after my deeply personal story was “when did you feel god come down to save you?”. They were so concerned in how my experience was evidence of the existence of their god - surely I could tell them about what it felt like to be in the presence of God? But they missed the point: I saved me. I was strong all along. I survived. But since that moment, I’d been treated like a perpetual victim in the church. Unworthy, pathetic, and someone who needed saving. I’ve been asked multiple times since to speak in church circles on my abuse… and I just felt so exploited. I don’t believe in a God that exploits a woman’s pain to prove his love - prove his existence. I don’t attend church anymore, but I do continue to reach out to fellow survivors to provide resources and be part of an actual empathetic community. I’m not arguing against religion… but I’m not going to let it stand when anyone poses to survivors that healing can only come from their God. That - is - harmful.
Wild how you escaping was proof that god is good but you dealing with that in the first place isn’t proof that god is bad? Make it make sense.
That's an incredible and important story. Thanks for sharing!
@@melovekittieGod is never the cause of bad situations, ya know, that's Satan... But remember God is omnipresent and has a plan for everything & everyone ever to be born. Oh and Satan will make people do things all the time, but don't forget about God's incredible blessing of "freewill."
IMO, religion is like an optical illusion. Once you recognize the nonsensical of it all, it's impossible not to see it.
@@CassilovesMochacope harder
Thank you so much for sharing your story. "I saved me" - such powerful, uplifting words
Interesting how they mention people, "turning away." I never felt like I turned away. I was pushed away by racism, Christian nationalism, trumpers, judgement, and hypocrisy. I wanted it to be real and beautiful.
Thiiss, I was already toying with the idea of leaving the faith around 2014 or so. But I was filled with so much guilt and fear thinking about "what if it is true and I die tomorrow and go to hell?" (I was also a very anxious kid terrified of armageddon). But the thing that sealed the deal for me was my 'fellow' church goers. Like how was I supposed to take these messages of love and good will to heart when my own peers would literally ignore me? I distinctly remember being in the church's youth group one day just wanting someone to talk to. But I wasn't girly enough to hang with the other girls, so I thought, ok I like video games and I've always been a tomboy, maybe the guys will accept me. I literally walked up to them and joined their conversation about a game we were all playing at the time and they all looked at me with this look of "why are you talking to us?" and turned away from me. That sealed the deal for me. We're in the house of god, who talks about accepting everyone and we wanna talk about loving our neighbors but then make it obvious that youre only accepted if you fit neatly into these predefined boxes of how you should act. Nah, and thats not even getting into how people there started giving my family looks when the first wave of the BLM movement hit the news circuit.
The roots of my deconversion predate 2016 by a decade. Small seeds here and there. But 2016 was the point where I basically decided that why should I continue to try and force myself and pretend to believe in these things we were taught when fellow Christian’s so clearly do not give a shit about their own moral teachings.
If people who truly believe act as if the moral teachings aren’t true, why should I who doubt do otherwise.
" I wanted it to be real and beautiful." that line hit me hard... "When I was a child I thought this was legitimately the meaning of life, and when I grew up, and learned of all the flaws in the religion the realization hit me like a brick. I wanted this eternal love, the peace, the belonging, all that, so so much. But I learned that most of it was a sham, and that hurt man... I turned away from religion as a teenager roughly ten years ago, and the only thing I really miss is this illusion of beauty I thought I was following.
I never started out my journey wanting to leave, I was actually looking for more evidence to reaffirm my faith, also looking for evidence to try to mesh what I saw with my own eyes with church doctrine.
As a former Mormon, the very foundation of the church is one of racism, sexism and bigotry.
I was pushed away by transphobia
Wow, they're really basically saying "don't evaluate your beliefs, and if you do, don't talk about it"
Almost as if their "truth" couldn't hold up to scrutiny ^^
Sounds a lot like an abuser.
Literally just "fake it till you make it".
They literally depend on people willingly swallowing whatever they tell them without question.
JWs just say that out loud. It's pretty wild.
"'An abuser tells you that you are broken and need them to feel whole-' Well the church does that!"
So... Damn... CLOSE!!!!!
If I had a dime for every time a Christian has told me that I was never really a Christian...
Yup, and know nothing about me andd what i actually believed
That's probably why I stay clear. Once you realize that it only serves to diminish your lived experience, you learn to protect your peace.
It's the not-so-subtle "I'm not interested in hearing you nor having a conversation" indicator. Just walk away whenever you hear it.
You'd be as wealthy as the mega-pastors!
You weren’t lol
They really think a person deconstructing because they feel excluded, demeaned or dehumanized by some core belief of the religion is NOT a good reason to deconstruct.
That tells you everything you need to know.
Their response to someone who deconstructs because they feel demeaned or dehumanized by a core belief is to demean or dehumanize them
Nothing is ever a good reason to deconstruct for them. They'll claim you were "never a true Christian" or some bullshit to the same effect.
@@flowingafterglow629If they didn't, they would have to ditch absolutely EVERYTHING the ideology is. It's at the core, this is why they do it
@@nathanlabrador7664and then even if you return to faith while disagreeing with their shitty doctrine, they'll still claim you're not a real Christian. The exclusion and dehumanization are central to their idea of faith.
One of the most monstrous beliefs I had was the narcissists who were horrible to we were in-dwelt with God the Holy Spirit, so therefore couldn’t be as truly terrible as I perceived. My whole being had been screaming at me for years to run, but I stayed.
I’m now fairly convinced of the poisonous playground that many evangelical churches are, and that kids & the vulnerable should be kept well away.
Funny thing about the electricity argument. If you ask 100 electrical engineers or electricians how electricians how electricity works you are going to get 1, possibly 2 answers.
If you ask 100 Christians about how god works you are going to get a bunch of different answers
I don't know...
I'd gotten rough primers in school and from an engineer about how electricity works and then I watched a video explaining how wireless charging works and it was like everything I thought I knew about electricity was a lie.
@@AlexsGoogleAccount put a fork inside an outlet and you'll find out whether electricity is real or not.
Ask 10 believers from the top 10 religions to ask their God to set a wet pile of wood on fire, and see who's God is going to do that.
@@exaucemayunga22I’m by no means a Christian but that’s a false equivalency if I’ve ever seen one
@@hogndog2339 agreed, we'd need to select a test that we'd expect to work if the faith is true. Very few faiths believe you can get a god to do petty tricks like lighting wet wood for our amusement.
You'd probably need to tailor the test to the faith in question. For Christians, the easy one is faith healing as outlined in James 5:14/15.
@Albinojackrussel donyou not know the story of Elijah?? Elijah made a bet with other people to see who's God was going to set a pile of wet wood on fire, and after the other group prayed to their Gods and nothing happened, Elijah mocked them and their Gods. In the end Elijah prayed to Yahweh and Yahweh lit that shit on fire. That's just one single example
Why can't Yahweh do that today, now that we have HD cameras and multiple ways of collecting data?
If your search for truth leads you back to Jesus, fantastic. Just don't expect others to have the same journey.
I feel really bad for good ol JC to be honest. Dude tried to tell people they had a divine spark in them that we are all parts of the divine that heaven isn’t some beyond realm but is “already here” aka the divine/spiritual is not separate from nature but IS nature… like he said some good he said some bad but they did him DIRTY bro they whitewashed him and then made him into both superman and the ultimate scapegoat and as a KO they took his execution device and made it a religious symbol like ah yes we’re the guys who worshipped that guy who died a gruesome death that one time and we didn’t understand him so we’re gonna go be a bunch of nationalist racist warmongering patriarchs now yeet
@CooP-dg7ky Press X for doubt
Yeah, even though I was able to rediscover my faith after I accepted that I'm queer, it's central for me to recognize and keep space for the trauma that countless people have experienced in the church.
@@forivallsame
I felt "inspired" to say my testimony at a church camp right after a particularly moving messge a few years ago. I went up there and told everyone that i struggled with my mental health and even attempted, y'know, unaliving myself, and i still struggled but i trusted that god would care for me. Afterwards, i was approached by alot of people telling me that god made me want to unalive myself so that other people could hear my story and come to christ. I was not a victim of my own mind. I was a pawn for god's plan. And that made me miserable. Im deconstructing now, but that moment definitely made me feel invalidated and unloved, because all my struggle and pain was for a purpose, and that was all the people around me cared about, was how it could bring more people to church. Thats all i was to them. And i hated it. I hated myself. I hated god. I hated that all I wanted was just love and comfort but all i got was a "mission for christ."
I’m so sorry to hear that. We hear you.
These people all suffer from the same thing: a slave mentality which was indoctrinated into them.
I hear and validate you, you're loved for yourself and not a piece in a sadistic god's plan.
Godsdaaaaaamn, I want to give you a hug. :( What happenned to you is SO not okay.
Uggh so gross 🤢 💪🏼💪🏼strength! 💪🏼💪🏼
what's funny is i got "saved" at age 5 and was encouraged to have a testimony. i used to tell people if i hadn't gotten saved at 5yrs old i would have become an arrogant prideful bad person but jesus kept that from happening. 🤣 i was still arrogant, tho, but i was arrogant about being saved. i would put other kids down for not being saved.
i ended up going to seminary, in part bc i had so many questions about the bible and believed they would explain it all. they couldn't explain shit. all they did was do a bunch of semantic gymnastics to try to make it all make sense. but i was still cheisrian, just more of a NT only, then only what Jesus said.
what changed my life was the apple ipod touch.
i had the summer off as a teacher and had an ipod touch that had just come out, and i started reading the internet... Reddit, wikipedia, etc... and was finally exposed to science and reason and history and archaeology and anthropology and i'm a huge learner, so i ate it all up. and learning about neanderthals and denisovans really was the first huge dent in my christianity.
jesus would have had to die for the neanderthals too. but the bible never mentions them.
that was the first step away.
rhe final step came 5yrs later when i was studying for my masters degree and took a class in esoteric religions and saw where christianity came from, how all the ancient religions were so similar, how hymns to zeus sound just like hymns to yahweh.
i couldn't pray anymore and finally let go.
the last 10yrs have been freedom from religion and learning so much and i still study theology and religion and logic and science.
i was devout. i prayed on my knees every night. i took "walks with god" where I would walk and pray. i loved god so much. so much. i grieved when i left christianity. to know my "best friend" was never real.
being outed by a cousin was difficult. my family turned on me and still say that im demon possessed bc i left the faith. of course they say i was never christian.
deconstruction is difficult. it takes courage to follow the truth past your family and religion and what you've been your whole life. it takes such fortitude to follow the truth. i'm proud of anyone who has the courage to do that.
"to know my 'best friend' was never real"
Yeah ☹️
Arrogance can come from anyone, religious or non-religious. Atheists can think they're better than theists because they don't believe in god, and theists can think they're better because they do believe. Now, I personally think that withholding belief due to insufficient evidence is the more rational and logical thing to do, but I don't think that makes me better than theists. However, I know many theists that think they're better than me simply because they have blind faith in an unidentifiable, unfalsifiable, invisible sky wizard. If that isn't arrogance, I don't know what is.
Damn, Kat. That was... funny, uplifting, eye-opening, interesting, insightful, informative, and more than a little introspective. Happy to hear it sounds like your deconstruction occurred in a very natural way (at least, from what I can tell. Wasn't introduced to the concept of a God until maybe 13, and while I liked a few stories, I assumed the Bible was just "The Monster at the End of This Book" for adults. Then I found that Grover had significantly better morals than Yahweh.
@@Ten80petehaha grover! that's awesome... and true af
@@scottmoore7588ya i ID as an agnostic-atheist now because there isn't sufficient evidence to believe in any gods. but arrogance can be a pitfall on either side of religion... well said
as someone who's been sober since October 2022: show off. go ahead, just rub that extra month in my face
no but seriously, *big congrats*
You too. My sober date was September 29 so it’s basically October
Congrats to both of yall! Keep it up!
I stopped drinking last month. It was actually the complete acceptance that no god was coming to save me that I was finally able to kick it. Weird how i was always taught it was supposed to be god that saved me but it was the exact opposite.
I used to be lonely and depressed before I became a Christian. Now I'm lonely and depressed *and* I feel guilty about it!
💯
Exactly, christianity is not a cure for depression. It did nothing but make things worse for me honestly.
When I was religious, I alternated between 'this is a test' and 'i feel like shit because god is punishing me for being a piece of shit'.
Yeah.... not fun.
I had tons of friend at church but still felt alone.i left that church but not God. . I haven’t been to church in years but I read the Bible and believe in God.
I honestly hated it when people say they were so depressed before coming to Christ. You were sad and now not sad? Because that’s not how clinical depression works. And I’m pretty sure they still get sad after accepting Jesus.
The interesting thing i find about deconstruction most theists get wrong is, 99% of the time its never a conscious decision for the person deconstructing to start deconstructing.
"Choosing to walk away" and any other similar terms are all wrong.
Imagine a building. its your favorite building, maybe even your home. One day, someone throws a rock at it, or perhaps it may even have been an accident of the wind.
It hits the corner of your house and knocks a whole brick out. It wasnt even that big of a rock, you think, so you investigate.
Most people will merely replace the brick, others will leave it be and simply not care. But, some people think "huh, that was incredibly easy to damage, i better check my house to make sure the rest of it isnt so weak, or even better, if it is weak i'll know how to strengthen it!"
So they go around testing it. More bricks fall out, windows crack at a feather touch, gutters fall off with a tap. you try to find resources online about how to fix your home, but you run into an issue.
There are two groups you see. One that tell you you can fix it, and those that tell you its time to buy a new house and its dangerous to stay in the old one.
You love your house, but every time you listen to those telling you it can be fixed, their words dont sound quite right. Their methods are missing steps, contradicting each other and sometimes themselves, its impossible to use any of their advice to fix your home.
It takes a while, so long your home has started to fall apart by itself, but you decide to move, wondering how in the hell you ever decided to be in such a fragile house, and how it hadn't broken before. Or, maybe it had, and if so, how you didnt notice it.
Your family and friends might not like the new house, they may even be angry you left your old one. Many will not listen when you see the same problems in their homes you had with their old. Most wont listen, so the best you can do is not touch anything when you visit.
Deconstruction is that moment where, after seeing part of your faith crumble, big or small, you decide to investigate the rest, most of the time not even hoping to deconstruct, but strengthen it. But, it all falls apart. Like a jenga tower, you're pulling it down in attempting to build it up. And eventually you're just left with a pile of pieces, to be shoved in a box.
This is a really good metaphor
What a lovely way of putting it. I'll try to remember this in the future if anyone asks me about my story :)
That metaphor really sums up shoddy construction in a shellnut.
This is such a great metaphor.
Breathtaking metaphor.
I hate it when they call deconstruction a popular fad. Deconstructing has been the most stressful and difficult aspect of my life so far. I never had existential dread while a believer
Just remember, you've always been the one choosing your reason to exist or goals in life. There's no space giant forcing a purpose on you, like you're some tool or cog in his machine. You are free.
...well, free within the capitalist hellscape at least... but that we might be able to fix. Space giant, not so much.
I didn't even deconstruct at first. I let the religion and brainwashing slip off me when I left religion and found that there was still brainwashing in me. It made me very naive about the world and thinking in black and white terms. I had to go through therapy and get support online to get rid of the brainwashing.
I was a true believer. If I was never really a Christian, then NOBODY can possibly ever know for sure that they're a Christian. I deconstructed over the course of a decade, facts and experiences slowly chipping away at the flimsy supports. I didn't realize I was queer until well after I left the faith, it took deconstructing to allow me to be my authentic self, and EVEN THEN I was so cautious. That's how deeply ingrained the "Christian mindset" was in me.
💯💯💯💯🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈🌈
Same. Didn't realize I was queer until after my deconstruction. I didn't find out I was autistic until after either. My life is so different now that I'm on the other side of "let go and let God". Recently discovered the term comp-het and that most certainly is me
Friedrich Nietzsche said, "In truth, there was only one Christian, and he died on the cross". Nietzsche was so confident that no Christian ever lived up to Jesus' teaching that he wrote, "What has been called 'evangel' from that moment was actually the opposite of that which he had lived".
Been realizing this lately. Some of those hooks are still in me somewhere I'm not aware of and it's pissing me off.
It's only now in my 40s I'm healing from the "you're worthless" messaging of my youth. Channels like yours help a lot. Thanks!
Same.
church leaders would drool over my fucked up childhood because it made a great testimony. _barf_
This times a thousand. 👏
most 'conversion' stories: "So I was born..."
you knew it was going to be boring after that lol 😆
"Even so, try to remember how bad your life was before that!"
Mine is boring.
Every conversion story is almost, word for word, exactly the same. And I do mean exactly.
They always mention partying, drinking, drugs and sex, before feeling empty and finding the lord. I’ve yet to see a conversion story where someone doesn’t mention those things. It’s why I can’t take any conversion story seriously.
@@SoftBank47 Ok.
Try this on for size then: I hate parties, I hardly ever drink, I find no solace in any form of medication, and my fiancée, a divorced woman seeking to heal from an abusive spouse, is respecting my decision to wait until our legal, formal wedding night before I lose my own V-Card.
Boring *_af._*
I don't call it deconstruction. I call it growing up and experiencing maturation.
It felt so weird to grow up and watch your own family seem to lock themselves in a mental box and regress their development. I have gone on a dive through the world of Gnosticism and the history of this religion and I can’t really believe the potential depth of this religion and the church stays in the shallow ends as far from the roots as they can get. I didn’t even lose faith in God, I confirmed the universe/the Tao/ nature DOES exist but I wouldn’t call it God anymore. Anything that can communicate to you in something as simple as words isn’t the “voice of the universe” the only mouths the universe has are those of the animal kingdom. And again, the Bible is a product of the animal kingdom.
We waited until our child was old enough to make decisions for himself to expose him to religion, and since he wasn’t inundated with those ideas as a child, he’s able to evaluate them and see them for the nonsense they are.
I made one of my Christian coworkers so mad one time by saying, "God says to put childish things behind you... Like Christianity."
@@Aaron-mj9ieI will reveal you something. The true Christians are similar as God. They reflect Him in everything and they do not even need to know it always it will come out sooner or later because He is in them and influence them all the time. He is like wind and they like leaves who He carry trough life trough all kind of things
@@Bojan12 Nah. That's a cop out. "God doesn't have to be real because he is his believers."
You have to grow up eventually.
I got baptized when I was like seven because I thought that getting baptized would make the nightmares I was having stop. I was being abused almost every single day and suffering from nightmares because of it. Everyone that I spoke to told me that the nightmares were caused by demons that were crawling into my bed at night, so I thought that being baptized would scare the demon away because I would officially be “god property”
😢😢😢
I was tortured by demons multiple times but I have kept my faith even if I wanted to die from pain
@@Bojan12 youre so lucky. I wish i had your strength when i was dealing with an anxiety disorder. And when my mom shamed me for liking girls and when i too wanted to end my life and when i was separated from my friends and some family i rlly loved.
I grew up in a Pentecostal home. I remember I would beg God to help me speak in tongues. I was so desperate at Royal Rangers campouts, or at church, that I would cry. In the end I faked it, because I felt pressured. I hated myself so much for so long for that.
The secret sauce is that everyone is faking it.
So pleading to God to be able to speak in tongues made you hate yourself. That is very damaging when we are kids. One of many reasons I left the religion over two decades ago and it's only gotten worse.
I had a roommate in Bible College that had some psychological issues caused by his pentecostal parents; because they didn't think he was really a Christian because he hadn't spoken in tongues. Therefore, he wasn't fill with the holy spirit. He had a mental breakdown because of it. It's horrible what the indoctrination and grooming from the church will do to children and ruin their lives.
Of course you faked it- that’s the point
@@2shadowgamer2 I think (most) everyone fakes it at first, but glossolalia is a phenomenon people can slip into with the right atmosphere and social priming and it seems like once you've slipped into that state, it's easier to do it again, especially in high-energy or "spiritual" environments.
I think some people don't ever have to fake it and most people start by faking it and eventually don't have to anymore.
I "love" how Christians equate having dignity with being prideful.
People of faith should be looked at like the crackpots who scream in town squares. They should be ridiculed and laughed at.
The irony in that comment.
I love how they get all offended when doomers find joy and inner peace in reading the news online as they scream its fake news again!
It's always crazy to me how many fitting scenes from movies / shows you find.
❤❤❤
When I got a divorce and was more lonely and hurting than I’ve ever been at any other point in my life, I was fired from my job in a Christian organization, abandoned by most of my Christian friends, and shunned by 90% of the people in my then-congregation. After that I left the Church, but I continued to seek God with all my heart, mind, soul, etc., etc.
A few short years later, after the most painful (and lengthy) deep-dive into my beliefs, the Bible and my relationship to it, I finally decided that I couldn’t believe any more. This was years before I ever heard the term “deconstruction” in the religious context.
The past 30 years of my life have been far more fun, interesting and rewarding than the first 30!
Yayyyyyy!!!!
It's always interesting to hear the "real reasons" they come up with for people leaving Christianity, because I was never abused or harmed by anyone in my church, and I'm an asexual nerd who doesn't like parties or drugs, and I left because I just read the book they kept telling me to read and I went, "yeah, this is obviously nonsense." Like, that's genuinely all there was to it, I don't know what you want me to tell you.
and that's exactly what satan's liar would say.
:- )
@@istvansipos9940do you say that about anything that conflicts with your worldview?
@@adshille8987 do you know what a :- ) means?
You have a genuine question, “Hey, this doesn’t make sense,” And you make a genuine effort to understand it, and the more you look into it the less it makes sense, and when you finally decide that none of it makes sense, you are accused of not caring about the truth; you just want to sin.
That's me too.
That pastor who said the kid just wanted to party disgusted me. My baptist family went to such lengths to isolate me from partying they banned me from going to my college finals.
Sean McDowell? Yeah, he has one experience with one person leaving the faith and then he stereotypes everyone who leaves the faith into leaving for the same reason. I personally believed it and still wish it were true, but I ONLY left because I looked at the evidence in astronomy, biology, geology, geography, linguistics, anthropology, paleontology and eventually archaeology (which was the straw that broke the camel's back). I didn't party, I read my Bible, I tried to show kindness, share my faith, not to lie whereever possible, I didn't have a physically abusive experience, I don't do drugs and I've still never smoked a cigarette in my life. I still think there's really nice people at the church and miss having a large group of friends to hang out and do stuff with, but the books of Genesis and Exodus are demonstrably untrue.
I'd like to ask Sean if he has ever visited a church and worshipped with fellow Christians before, or indeed if he could name anyone else on earth who is a Christian. How would he actually know if they're true Christians?
@wefinishthisnow3883 the phrase "true Christian" is nothing more than a scapegoat that comes from the notion that Christianity is 100% good. Of course, they're going to accuse him and anyone who leaves the faith of not being true.
@@wefinishthisnow3883 What really gets me about Sean McDowell is how he markets himself as the apologist who is “nice to atheists” and is supposedly more careful than the average apologist, but then he says silly disrespectful nonsense like what he says in the clips Trevor shares here.
Also, when Sean tells the story about the kid who left Sean’s faith who says he “didn’t become a Christian because” he “was a sinner in need of grace” but because he was “hurting” and was told Jesus could “make his life better. Sean goes on to dismiss that last thing as a “false gospel.”
But that anecdote is weird, if it happened. But let’s assume it did. Maybe the kid DID believe he was a sinner in need of grace when he was a Christian, but he tells Sean, “I didn’t become a Christian because I was a sinner in need of grace” because he now has a post-Christian perspective on what he thought was really going on with why he believed. He said he was “hurting” and that he was told that Jesus would “make his life better.” But what does he mean by that? Sean doesn’t say. He just calls it a “false gospel” without analyzing it. What if the kid didn’t mean, “I thought Jesus would magic away all my problems,” but instead he believed that Jesus would through grace save him from his sin that condemned him to hell.
Which, if that were true, would definitely “make his life better.”
So Sean is most likely just being a disingenuous asshole here, like he usually is.
Read the Bible first time at 12, started asking questions and The pastor literally told me to shut up and even suggested my parents to "correct my behavior" after that I quit religion
The word "faith" means an unwavering belief in something, despite evidence to the contrary. They love that word.
I personally could never go without thinking for that long. Neither could my parents: that's why they deconverted. And by the sounds of it, you're the same way.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Love the believer, hate the belief.
"an abuser tells you that you're nothing or that you are broken and that you need them to to be made whole. ... That IS what the church is doing." Babylon Bee actually spoke truth! This is a main message of many pastors/churches FFS
As an electrician I can confirm it definitely works with kites and keys. Our world would be dark without kites and keys.
Whoa.. that's deep man..
I think I want to use this in a song!
@@riseofdarkleela go off, do your thing. Send me a link when you’re done
I know how to generate electricity just because I took physics in high school. I could build a tiny generator with a few simple parts.
@@AxelQC does it require kites and keys?
I grew up in a secular household, and had absolutely no religious convictions at all in my youth. I was a wild teenager, got caught up in partying and got into a lot of trouble. I started to do a lot of psychedelics my last year of High School and became a teenage Father. My spiritual experiences while on psychedelics and becoming a young Father brought me to Christ. I truly believed it would change my life for the better when in reality those few years as a Christian made me more miserable than ever. I remember the experience of feeling guilty about everything. All of my interests and hobbies were ''evil'', having to forcefully redefine who I was as a person and living life believing majority of everyone I loved was going to burn in hell, suffering for eternity. The worst part was even feeling alone within the religious community because when I tried to talk about the Bible with other Christians they had no clue what I was talking about (because most ''Christians'' don't actually read their bible or know anything about theology). I feel deep into apologetics, went to church three times a week and read my bible a minimum of three times a day. I was more ''Christian'' than everyone else in my community and finding out most people within the church were only ''Cultural Christians'' really turned me off. Thankfully, it was reading the Bible that brought me back to reality and got me to stop believing.
"Cultural Christian", I'm gonna steal that.
I'm confident in my belief, and it does help me. But I believe everyone needs to follow what their heart says is true, as God will judge you by your heart. Doing what you believe is right is good, and going against what you believe is true is bad.
Say my church is 100% true, but you believe it's not and that Hindu-Buddhism is true. Converting to my church would be sin for you, as you're going against what you believe is true.
(Still only like ¼th into the video)
Wow, thank you for sharing. I hope you have finally found peace within yourself.
Properly read, the bible is the most compelling force for Atheism that has ever existed.
@@Colin12475 💯💯💯💯💯
Omgggg, I was JUST saying to my daughter's father that many, if not most, Christians do not actually know the bible for themselves, and that my reading the bible for myself contributed to my later deconstruction!
I was one of those Christians who said that those who left Christianity were never Christians to begin with.
Oh, look at me now...how the turn tables.
For most of us, we don't decide to deconstruct our faith out of the blue. It happens without us even realising it.
That’s why they say it. Consciously or unconsciously it’s a defense mechanism against the fear that it could happen to them.
Btw, congrats for seeing the light. ;)
@@pansepot1490 spot on!
I used to say ignorant things like that too… I really need to stop judging people because look at me now lol.
Ayyyy, alcohol-free since July '22 here. Glad to hear it bud. It's pretty remarkable.
💪🏼💪🏼whoo hoo #AFAF 💪🏼💪🏼 (est. 2020)
Year and a half for me!
I often think about this (abbreviated) quote from Caitlin Stout: "A friend asked the other day what percentage of people I went to youth group with deconstructed and what percentage remained evangelical. As I thought about, I realised that, for the most part, it was the kids who took their faith the most seriously who eventually walked away. Those of us who tearfully promised that we would follow Jesus anywhere eventually followed him out the door. Some of us got to where we are because we took it all to heart. We took the most foundational elements of our faith to their natural conclusions. Folks who deconstruct evangelicalism aren't drop-outs; they're graduates."
Exactly! I know far more people who left because of genuine questioning and study than because of any specific incident, or because they just didn’t like it.
Yes!
At 14 I felt a desperate need to become a more worthy Christian so I resolved to read the Bible cover to cover. On the first reading I had a few doubts. Second reading I was researching things that confused or puzzled me, and the more I learned the deeper my doubts. At some point in the third reading I became agnostic. The fourth reading I was just picking it apart. All because I thought thorough and thoughtful reading of the Bible would make me a better Christian. People chuckled and said it was an adolescent phase. In the following 50 years I have studied a wide range of faiths. Never felt even the teensiest temptation to crawl back inside that rigid and irrational mindset. ✌🖖
"They deconstructed because they had never constructed to begin with!
Do words mean nothing to you‽ How can one DEconstruct if they had never constructed to begin with?
Stop trying to be logical!
More interrobangs!!
Noticed this when Rhett and Link deconstructed. It's obviously something very personal they shared because they wanted to be honest with their audience. I was surprised by the amount of vitriol and selective ignorance on why they would make this decision which is why so many are leaving the church.
Pete Holmes has a similar trajectory as well. the thing that rang true for me is "they say your doubts are welcome but no they fing aren't".
It's a shame that a religion that touts the wonders of the universe that can't comfortably address the issues that many face in the Church
They also did that for the lead vocalist for Hawk Nelson. When he was sharing his experience with a Christian show on YT. And most of the comments are how dare he decovert. I read one that said he should have prayed more and be light because that is what Christians are called to be.
They won't even let you have your testimony either if they think it doesn't sound good enough. I remember telling my testimony to my youth group and related what I felt to be a spiritual experience and was told by my youth pastor it sounded a little far-fetched and was probably just in my head. Can't have shit in Christianity.
thats an awful thing to say to someone who truly believes in the religion. I may not be amenable to magical thinking personally, but I respect that it can be something that's very important to others. as long as it's not hurting anyone else, what reason is there to be cruel about it? just doesn't make sense to me
I was a christian for 33 years of my life and it almost ruined my life
Being born again requires dying as well
My thoughts as a pagan:
Deconstructing faith is fundamental to having a healthy relationship with faith. Some people deconstruct their faith, and find that they can’t have a healthy relationship with faith at all. And that’s okay.
Edit: why did I say the word faith so many times
Yes!! I've deconstructed twice, both times with the grounding principle that I won't be scared of the truth; I'd rather know, no matter what. The first time, I came to an understanding and settled into my faith more maturely. The second time, I became an agnostic. I've literally been down both paths, and have great respect for both the thoughtfully faithful and the thoughtfully atheist (and, of course, the perpetual wonderers like myself, who make peace with the tension and live in curiosity on some matters.)
Values are the most important thing: how do you believe people should engage with each other? How do you treat and regard others (and yourself)? What behaviors do you reject, and what do you accept? How do you interact with your environment? If these show true compassion and support and active intentional growth and goodness... Some things in your belief system (the most crucial bits, I'd say) are very well calibrated.
It's like building muscles. If you never exert them and never let them get sore, they'll never heal and grow back stronger. Without deconstructing, you never take ownership of your faith. You never honestly wrestle with it, and the result is frail, brittle, and shallow.
Every Christian who was raised in the faith or has been in the faith for a while should be deconstructing, seeking answers, digging deeper, and growing.
Entirely true.
This is why the fictional religion I wrote into a game has the deity in question say that doubts are a good thing. They lead to questions, which leads to answers, which eventually lead to the truth.
Doubt is not a bad thing. It's just a tool to determine the truth. :P
@@AegixDrakan
Sounds like what I've heard about Judaism. Challenging god is their thing.
@@CandleWisp My girlfriend said the same thing. XD
Congrats on the sobriety, dude. I bet it wasn’t easy but we’re proud of you for breaking the addiction!
Thanks for the sobriety update!! Great job, Trevor
Yes, congrats! No small accomplishment.
Honey, come quick. New Belief It Or Not just dropped
I didn't even want to leave the faith. I was fourteen, scared and alone, living in an emotionally abusive household and hiding my sexuality for fear of being shunned by my own parents. I had no one to talk to and find support with about my doubts surrounding Catholicism. Everyone I knew was religious. I spent over a year praying to god every day, begging him to change my sexuality and take away my doubts. I promised I would never sin again if he just 'fixed' me. It took me that long to realise that I could either waste the rest of life asking a god who never answered me to make me a good person, or I could walk away and take charge of my own life, and be a good person on my own. It was a scary, difficult decision, and to this day it deeply impacts the way I navigate the world. But I'm happy I did it, because otherwise I would still be laying prostrate in my bedroom begging god to fix me.
see I'm queer so my entire existence is a sin and so no matter what reason i give they could retort that i left to sin because of my polyamorous lifestyle and queer identity despite the fact that I am now the happiest I have every been.
I'm a lesbian who was raised Christian and is now an atheist. I was also lucky enough to be the millennial daughter of pro-choice Democrats with unfettered access to the internet and a good public library. As soon as I started questioning my sexual orientation, I found queer-affirming religious people and theology. I didn't leave because the church hurt me, I left because I couldn't believe any of its claims.
When I watch Trevor’s stuff I’m reminded of a day when my roommate and I attempted to communicate only in Simpsons quotes.
You’ll have to speak up I’m wearing a towel
@@BeliefItOrNot Excellent…
@@scottgodlewski306Excellent, Smithers, excellent...^^
"hurt by the church, by a leader...or just by the church being 'really click-y'..."
-spoken like a true mean girl and abuse-minimizer
If Sean McDowell, Alisa Childers, and Tim Barnett have this same conversation 5 years from now and Tim says "I am no longer a Christian", Sean will immediately announce "You never were a Christian even when we were on that program 5 years ago."
But he will never admit it could happen to him.
I saw the most fervent Christians fall away later on. Because the more they read of the Bible, the more they saw the contradictions.
I am angry that Calvinism was forced upon me only they won't admit to being Calvinist but Bible believing. I told one friend that she had been raised a Calvinist and was going from one Calvinist church to another where she was shamed and lied about. She looked at me with shock. A friend of a friend years before had looked into Calvinism and how to recognise it and would argue with Calvinist ministers over it. He was still an evangelical Christian through. A Quaker told me that they won't be upfront about it as many of them don't know they are Calvinist because they were duped themselves.
if I’m being honest, you’re my deconstruction story. “Why are so many people leaving the church” was it
What really got me was "the original sin" It just felt like what I had been thinking was finally put into words, that I myself couldn't dare to admit
All these "sermons" sound like MLM seminars.
Oh wait... They are.
😃 Love your channel yo! Great vids! Keep on being awesome!
Fr, it's the same picture
The late great comic Jeremy Hardy once said about his atheism "When you grow up in the Church of England, you don't lose your faith as you get older; you just can't remember where you put it" I think this is a great illustration of different denominations - and especially getting older,
I was raised culturally Christian. So no church or praying or special rituals, just this surface level understanding that you need to be good to go to heaven and Bible stories you watched on tv. So when I went to a real church when I was a teenager, it made me incredibly depressed and I didn’t stay long. The few years I was there took me probably a decade to recover from. For the people that were fully raised in it and were still able to ask questions and start reversing the brain warping, I’m in awe of you.
I still have to keep quiet about my non belief around my family. Despite not being actively Christian, I would be disowned in no time if I said anything. Luckily it’s not a topic that really comes up.
Thank you, thank you.
While I appreciate your kind words, it sounds like you might be selling yourself a bit short. You had to spend a decade recovering from a depressing and deeply troubling time of your life, and you’re still grappling with the fact that your family won’t support your reconversion AND you’re carrying on in spite of that, leading your own path even though it’s hard. That’s awe-inspiring too, friend 😁
Sounds like you're in a tough position. If they want to have a major Bible discussion with you, one powerful but innocent question might be, "How do we figure out which gospel book is most true?" I think almost any investigation into that starts to reveal the disagreements between the accounts, and the implications for claims about heaven and hell and the final days and so on. Mark is the earliest but lacks a lot of central features of the religion, and even realizing that can start to unravel things.
I think “culturally Christian” means the opposite. People who celebrate the Christian holidays, embrace the cultural tradition and even go to church but are not actually believers in god.
People who sincerely believe in god but don’t participate in the rituals of organized religion are still fully Christians.
@@pansepot1490I think this is probably true, my parents are Christian so I always participate in Christian celebrations, Easter, Christmas, I sometimes help do things for church but I have never believed at any point in my life, so I think I woukd fit better in the cultural Christian than OP, a person who genuinely believed.
I gotta testify...
Come up in the spot looking extra fly
'Fore the day I die, I'ma touch the sky
I read this to the tune of Cruel Angel's Thesis
1:20 I am impressed with him writing backwards, that’s about it.
Haha! Me too, like how did he do that so quickly & without mistakes?
@ArtisticlyAlexis it's a miracle
He's writing normally on the glass, then the video is mirrored in post so it's still legible.
He writes normally, then video gets mirrored. Boom! Deconstructed.
@@Cieln0vaAh, now you spoiled the miraculous, guess I'll just have to go back to being a Pslam fourteen atheist.
These preachers’ constant mention of the internet as being a source of people losing their faith is really telling. I bet there wouldn’t be as much of a presence of deconstruction ideas if those that were deconstructing their faith had a more open, welcoming environment that didn’t ostracize them for even so much as considering that they no longer believe
It helped me stay away when researching cults and came across fundamentalist Christianity among them. I found not much support in real life or books in the library or bookshop written by ex Christians. There were a few by Karen Armstrong that exposed the Catholic Church as she was once a Catholic nun but is still a Christian although a liberal one.
Although believing is the whole point of being christian. How is that not the same as people who disagree with leftist ideology being ostracized?
46:50 "We don't believe in ethical child sacrifice, we're not monsters! We believe in adult human sacrifices ONLY!"
"and, based on our b00k and some critical thinking, that sacrifice did not happen, either"
juni0r lost literally 0.0000% of his eternity on that cross, if my math serves me.
God gave his life for us by homicide because the Romans didn't support Jesus believing in God so they killed them for it. which means he was executed by the Romans but it was in his plan so we could have salvation through him and in the end inherit God's kingdom. I hope you understand. God bless you in Jesus almighty name.
@Rbartledoo so jesus commited suicide by centurion? Eww. That doesn't help anyone.
In my current church, there's an opportunity to help look after preschoolers, and I loved it. I love working with kids and helping out. I took a break for a few years during high school (I can't remember why) and recently, I wanted to sign up again because I missed that. I missed reading to the kids and playing with the dollhouses and play kitchen with them.
One of the questions on the application was basically "What was your life like before you came to know Christ?"
And it was REQUIRED.
I could not skip it.
Especially now as a soft agnostic, I was so irritated. Like, these kids aren't going to be interested in my life story or about the details of my faith.
These kids wanna hear stories, play, have their snacks, and do the coloring pages.
And I wasn't even signing up as a teacher. I was going to be a helper, so it made even LESS sense.
Arrrghgh that sounds infuriating! Also, fellow agnostic who grew up Christian here! Btw, what do you mean by soft agnostic?
@Claire-tk4do
Hey, agnostic crew!
Also yes, it was infuriating. And to answer your question, soft agnostic basically means that I'm someone who withholds belief about God's existence, but if solid evidence were to be presented that he does exist, then I would be more likely to believe that he exists.
So I don't know for sure, but I might change my mind if legitimate, solid evidence was found.
@Claire-tk4do
A hard agnostic is someone who believes that God's existence cannot be proven.
Here are my observations on testimonies:
1) Communities of Christian faith emphasize the importance of the sharing your story.
2) Narratives of conversion are retroactively given emotional, spiritual and circumstantial details that come from AFTER their conversion. Examples: "I was in sin." "Life was hopeless" "I was in a dark place", etc, etc. All of which are learned ways to communicate your past.
3) There is an exclusivity presented that is granted AFTER you perform or give your testimony. Baptism is of highest elevation of this.
4) Once given, the community of faith will bolster the story with praise. More performances of giving testimony are encouraged and elevated with baptism.
5) Your behavior of reinforcing the story anchors you more and more into your newfound belief. This can also create a form of radicalization or strong identification to the group identity. .... Sometimes so important as to make family and friendships into awkward relationships.
My sister is so entrenched in her religious beliefs that she can't handle so much as a light joke not even at religious people's expense, but just about anything religious. For instance, I was talking to one of my friends about a CZcams video I had come across where the person in it says that when they were a kid they heard "Joy to the world, the lord is come" as "Joy to the world, the lord is hung". My friend and I were having a good laugh about it, and then I looked over at my sister who was in the other room, and she was glaring at me. She asked me later on why I told that story, and I told her I was simply sharing something I found funny with my friend, which is pretty normal behavior, and she told me to not make jokes about religion if she's in the vicinity. No matter how many times I explained to her that the joke was someone mishearing a line in a song in a humorous manner, she couldn't see anything past the fact that anyone was daring to talk about god in a way that wasn't showing complete and utmost respect (because apparently he just inherently deserves that, even if he's what we would consider to be evil if he was a human). I'm so sick and tired of religious people expecting everyone to alter our behavior for them, even if we're doing nothing wrong. Religious people have done far worse than make jokes at other peoples' expense, but to them, being made fun of (which I wasn't even doing) is crossing the line. Good old christians and their persecution complex.
If true Christians never leave the faith, then nobody knows if they're Christian until they die.
Yes precisely
This is all "no true Scotsman". "No true Christian would ever leave, so therefore if you leave were never a true Christian." It's a tautology that makes leaving impossible without being slandered to prevent others from following you out.
There is a number of reasons why I left religion for one I can no longer tolerate the BS but also the contradictions and the double standards.
The contradictions are the best. You bring one up, and you will get an explanation of how it’s not really a contradiction that surpasses the most absurd Sci-fi fanboy retconning.
One of the main reasons why I left was because more and more involvement was demanded from me. I had cut it down to the Sunday evening service and nothing the rest of the week and would get hassled on the way out of church for it. It's also too easy to consume Christian culture as it is now so commercialised, so I had stopped reading Christian magazines that advertised the books, music, and holidays. Then, I was avoiding the Christian book shop. Unfortunately, they have them in churches, too.
My personal testimony is that I never needed a bronze age fiction book to guide my life and morals. I live a good life and have great relationships with my friends and family. No Jesus required or desired.
I strive to be like you everyday
"Didn't ask for it, don't need it, go fuck yourself." ~ Based Vampire
well I got good news for you BUDDY, the Bible wasn't even a single fiction book until the 4th century, which was the classical age, not the bronze age. before that it was just weird assorted fanfics, letters and weirdo rambles, sort of like youtube comments some dorks decided to glue together.
@@rcndg Thats what Donna says...
I never did either, I just thought I did.
When I was doubting, I followed almost every piece of advice that these pastor-types are giving.
I prayed, I went to church, I read the Bible, I sought out pastors and teachers to help me answer questions, and in the end, it was all very unconvincing. The counter-arguments/apologetics made way more sense than any Christian theology, and I didn't see any reason to keep believing.
Were there people in the church who hurt me? Absolutely, but they were never the reason I doubted my faith. It was the teachings themselves, and even after looking into MANY different denominational teachings, I couldn't square the circle of Christianity.
That's all it was, and that's the hardest thing for any Christian to come to grips with. Someone evaluated the evidence behind their convictions and were no longer convinced. All these other reasons are excuses for them to avoid that reality and hand-wave away people's real experiences.
I regret that I have but one thumbs up to give for this post - Nathan Hale 1776 (paraphrased)
We must be faithful the answers come with time
@Bojan12 how much time are we supposed to allow? I spent years agonizing over what was to become my former faith. If someone says that I "just didn't wait long enough," I would probably be pretty incredulous. No matter how long I "allowed" for god to show up, if I gave up before I died, I will be told that I didn't wait long enough.
@@Bmarkb What are the questions that you seek to be answered?
@Bojan12
Let's see, I'd need some satisfying answers to a variety of questions/problems:
1. Divine hiddenness
2. The problem of evil/suffering
3. The Euthyphro Dilemma
4. The concept of "Hell"
5. Biblical inerrancy/reliability
And those are just the first things that popped into my head. Come up with satisfying answers/solutions to those, and maybe we can have a conversation about the possibility that the Christian god exists.
My breaking point was hearing a girl who I knew was very smart testify that she knew, despite opportunities offered at UCSD as a high school student, that her calling was to marry a return missionary and be a wife and a mother. So she turned the opportunity down…. I walked out and have never gone back
So she was called to be what many women are to be which is a mother with a family which is a loving and fulfilling thing and you become bitter about someone else choice and now you left because of that. Wow sounds like a lame reason. I hope you change you mind back again one day.
You see woman that is what following God is that is why prayer say: Your will be done
I remember growing up I so fervently believed in god, that every single night for so many years, I would pray that everyone on earth could be happy and safe. Because I believed so much that god was real and he could do that. No matter how many times I still saw things going wrong around me, I still did it. Because if there was even the smallest chance it at least worked a little bit I was going to keep doing it. So to be told I never really believed is so laughably untrue.
I did this once, when I was 5 (prayed for god to end hunger), when it failed, I became so angry that I never could believe that god was all loving. Took me a couple of years to drop the idea of god entirely but from there on, I thought god was evil.
You both acted to childish
Thank you Trevor, for validating our stories
Considering that faith is literally a shortcut to believe things without verifying whether they are true or not, I don't think it can be a bad thing to question it.
Colin Miller referring to Evangelical churches as "liberal" really says it all for where Colin lives mentally.
Also super weird just how many pastors seem to be claiming that poor communication is the problem ("Oh they never truly understood it properly!") when it's literally their job. Weird how in trying to blame everyone else, it still winds up pointing those fingers back at the person on the stage.
And Allen Parr... dude... if someone at my work was committing crimes against kids or their fellow coworkers, and the company refused to follow up on evidence, refused to report them to the police, refused to engage with it at all... yeah I'd quit and report it to the cops. The fact that Allen Parr wouldn't says more about Allen than anything else. Super weird that he's way louder in his complaints about the people leaving than anything to do with cleaning house or the character of the church.
Allen Parr surprises me at every Trevor video on how much he sucks as a person, it's hard to listen to him.
A small thing but thank you for that comment about the coughing in the video because I thought it was someone in the stairs and it scared me
For clarity, i was sweeping a stair well
Saved! is SUCH a great film!
For anyone who hasn’t yet seen it - watch it! 🤣 it’s healing and the movie is absolutely laughing AT religion 👏🏻
Moral Orel is pretty cathartic too.
I went from Christian to atheist on my own, but watching this sort of content, I admit, has made me even more bitter about how fraudulent my religion really was, the idea that others are suffering even worse than me, and that utterly insane pastors are still spitting bullshit lies and people are still believing it, makes me sick.
It’s so convenient for them if everyone who left the church wasn’t ever a real Christian.
Deconstruction is exhausting and MY GOD if I had a nickel for every single time I was told I wasn't spiritual or something when I said I am no longer religious...
People assume I am godless.
I find it hard to believe that no one went through a process exactly like deconstruction before the internet. Just because they used different words 1500 years ago, doesn’t make this a “new phenomenon”.
Omgggg, I was JUST saying to my daughter's father that many, if not most, Christians do not actually know the bible for themselves, and that my reading the bible for myself contributed to my later deconstruction!
It doesn’t matter much if they do read and know the Bible. The church I grew up in takes great pride in their knowledge of the Bible. Every sermon is filled with book, chapter and verse, and you’re expected to bring your Bible and read along with every single one. Every Sunday in Bible class we had a verse to memorize. And most of all, they insist that nothing they do is based on tradition, but only on the word of God. What I came to realize is that their interpretation of the Bible is itself very much a tradition. Other interpretations are discounted not because of any flaw, but because it’s not in their tradition.
@@mcr9822 memorizing one verse at the direction of church leaders is not the same as reading the Bible for yourself.
@@thesingerintheshowerIt definitely isn’t.
I adore the argument dismissal that is “well, you were never a real Christian then”. My grandfather was a southern baptist minister, and my dad went to sermons in Latin (Italian Catholic), I don’t think it gets more Christian than my childhood. I was baptized twice before the age of 14 because of my unfathomably deep fear of hell.
I got better!
Their continued existence quite literally hinges on the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. They HAVE to convince those that remain that literally any questions or self reflection means they're not a real believer. It's both an admission that their religion is quickly crumbling, and a staunch refusal to accept that it's their own doing.
Glad you got better!
Trevor, my husband and I both quit drinking a couple years ago and we have commented to each other the last few videos that you look so much healthier. Congratulations on your sobriety!
The beginning of the end for me was probably when I was going through several years of under/unemployment. A church leader told me I “should be grateful for all of God’s provision for you”. I stood there in my thrift store clothes, worn out shoes, holey socks, ratty underwear, and thought “if this is God’s provision I don’t want it.” It was a long journey out of the church, several more years before really deconstructing, and eventually realizing a belief in God, though different than before. I had to be willing to accept uncertainty and let go of absolute black and white views on a lot of things. Being willing to see nuance, other viewpoints as valid, and sitting with the discomfort of not knowing.
OMFG, I can't with these types of Christians! This kind of reminds me of a homeless shelter called Gospel Rescue Mission in Grant's Pass, OR that only helps people if they believe like them, are cishet, and able-bodied. Saw it at 7:30 in this video by Invisible People: czcams.com/video/qYzx4ZGQnc8/video.html
I've always thought I am a coward for not coming out and telling everyone I wasn't a Christian, but what else am I supposed to do? I know I would be seen as lesser and I wouldn't have a part in my family anymore. I wonder how many other people feel the same way.
Sad that the Christian way of life breeds people like me who have to hide themselves and are forced to be someone else.
Far too many, sadly.
I’m sorry… child m*lestation insurance??? What the actual fuck. How have I never heard of this. How the hell is this even legal?? I wanna throw up that shit makes me so mad
yeah, just what in the actual fck?!
SURELY Mr. "Belief [sic] It or Not" is lying through his teeth when he says there is such a thing as "child molestation insurance". At the very least, he must be totally and willfully mistating what the insurance covers.
Congrats on your sobriety. That’s hard work! Good job 👏
There was a time in my life when I would kick kittens, steal candy from babies, push old ladies down, etc. Needless to say I used to be a despicable person. Then I met Geezus and he told me to stop doing that shit without his approval. Gawd is GrrrrrrrrrEAT!
Hey!! Congrats on your sobriety!! My dad hit 1 year in January and I'm so proud of him!! Proud of you too!!
It’s crazy how growing up as a Mormon we were taught that we were so unique and yet everything in this video which mainly focuses on evangelicalism is exactly the same as Mormonism was.
Stop what you're doing Trevor just posted ❤
That bit about being "one and done" with churches after a bad experience really gets under my skin. I've lost track of how many churches I been a part of. My family bounced around from church to church for my entire childhood, and then in college I tried really hard to find a good Christian org. I hated every single one of these places. All of them had the same issues. Eventually I decided that I was still a Christian but just didn't like organized religion, and then on my own, without any further influence from orgs, I started deconstructing. That wasn't one bad experiences that soured me, it was a lifetime of bad experiences. And I STILL didn't give up on God, for YEARS.
I grew up in a Christian home. I didn't become an apostate because I wanted to sin, or be my own god, or suffered Church-hurt/abuse. I didn't find logic in religion.
It was the exact same for me. It just didn't make sense to me and I didn't like the anti LGBTQIA+ sentiments most Christian churches have, which as a bi person, made me feel really uncomfortable.
I'm bi. I can't make myself unattracted to women any more than I can men. It's been like that since I was 4, and that's how far back memories form, so... yeah...
The last time I said a prayer to god was in the midst of my worst crisis. The last thing I said to the god I was told to believe in was if you are real then you must really not want me. And just like that the weight I had been carrying my whole life was gone. When they say my chains are gone I've been set free.... Damn I felt so free letting go of Christianity
I remember I was 14, I had been in churches and places of worship alone, sneaking in when everyone else was outside doing whatever. I’d walk into the silent church, up to the altar, and get down on my knees to start praying. I’d beg God for a sign. “Please, tell me you want me, that you love me, I feel so left out, everyone else says they feel you.” And I waited. And waited…. And there was nothing. I decided if god was real he just didn’t want me and I didn’t want to worship a god who didn’t care. I sat in my bedroom one day thinking about it and said “I’m not Christian anymore.” And a weight lifted off me. I felt relieved.
@@Jogjosmowwdkfs I had very similar prayers as a teen. I remember crying cause I was going to hell cause I couldn't get the magic prayer to save me right. I was so consumed by the fear of letting go of what I was taught I held on for my deer life for 9 years. I've never felt more free then I do now!
@@Leigh6me too. I was making notes so I knew what I was supposed to believe. I never understood it and it never made sense. My intuition was telling me this is BS.
@@emilywyatt9340 yep. Was told never to question the Bible but I always felt like it didn't make any sense but the fear keeps you in
@@Leigh6Fear can give much wisdom but pain must be endured
I've been waiting for something like this. At the ripe young age of 50, i started deconstructing 8 years ago and im ready to share. It's complicated because I went through a lot of demoninations, and also fought my doubts when they tried to break through.
I'm still a Christian after deconstruction, there's nothing harmful about making up your own mind on your beliefs instead of just letting your pastor tell you what to believe
I grew up believing in god, going to church every Sunday, believing that god would smite me or make me sick if I missed even though I couldn't get myself to church etc.
I was bullied by basically everyone I knew for years, fellow students, teachers, family members. I came to the conclusion around 11-12 years old that either god doesn't want to help me or doesn't exist. Him not existing gives me more comfort so that's where I ended up.
I was born into an evangelical cult. In retrospect, the experience of deconstruction has been valuable in many ways. I have upgraded bullshit detectors.
Todd Friel looks and sounds like some SNL parody of a gameshow host escaped into our world to wreak havoc.
czcams.com/video/RGshtH4lbig/video.htmlsi=89a9McgjAPwYVh7g
Only in a rerun!
The most disgusting part is when the pastor/apologist realizes his faith hurts people while it also teaches love... and proceeds to resolve it by "redefining" love.