Elder Kearon In His Own Words
Vložit
- čas přidán 3. 05. 2024
- Cwic Media Website: www.cwicmedia.com
Cardio Miracle, Learn More! - cwic.qwkcheckout.com
Scripture Notes - www.scripturenotes.com
When Elder Kearon was called as an apostle, there was a contingent of members who were happy due to his focus on grace. Many hailed his recent General Conference talk as "a radical new repositioning of grace" and, unfortunately, took a cafeteria approach to the talk, only seeing one soothing side.
But his fantastic talk was complete in its doctrine.
This "grace movement" has its own geist. And many are caught up in it. It elevates the comfort, feel-good therapeutic gospel while ignoring the doctrine of Exaltation. That doctrine is ultimately the Doctrine of Christ.
********************
➡️ Cwic Show relates real-world, current events through commentary and conversations. We address topics such as politics, pop culture, and religion in a faith-based manner.
Cwic Media - like "Quick Media" Cwic is an Old English word that means "Intelligent" and "Alive."
********************
Disclaimer
The products and content offered by Cwic Media are neither made, provided, approved nor endorsed by Intellectual Reserve, Inc. or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All content and products are solely those of Cwic Media and not those of Intellectual Reserve, Inc. or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
********************
#CwicShow #lds
A truly converted heart naturally wants to do good. Emulating Christ in all our dealings with our fellow man is a life goal with daily success and failures. We can lay all our failures at His feet and praise Him with gratitude for our successes. This is what our agency allows us to do. Learn, try, progress, fail, repent, repeat. Agency is the greatest gift to let us know we are getting closer to Him. ❤
The commandments are like a roadmap to salvation not a roadblock to pleasure.
I really appreciate your and Elder Kearon's point of needing to move beyond 'just healing.'
In my experience, when you are hurting, you mostly can only think of 'not hurting anymore'.
But as someone who has literally been born again, once you're out of the hurt, you see that there is so much more to life!
God wants to give of His fullness. ALL of it. The adversary only wants us to partake of the bare minimum, if anything at all.
Thanks for this episode Greg!
He gave one of the best talks there . I could feel the spirit very strong . Heavenly Father does want all his children home . Even though all will not come home doesn’t mean God doesn’t want them back. And works very hard to bring all his children home . That is the goal. His talk was uplifting and encouraging . There is nothing to pick his talk about . Nothing to misunderstand . Why does choosing the right way not always make you happy ? Because you want praise from the world or approval from role or organizations in it? Or loosing a friend or someone thinking you are a fool ? Living the gospel brings peace and joy . Isn’t it the most desirable fruit to make you happy ? It should be . His talk was a very good talk . At times Jeffrey Holland gives similar talks . Don’t you give up . There is always hope is very similar to elder Kearons talk . We need to hear these kinds of talks too. Along with warnings . We need to know how much we are loved . It makes people try harder nog the other way around . All apostles give us hope .
The Lawless always want a grace only feel good Gospel.
Lawless is a good way to put it.
You don’t understand, we are all law breakers and covenant breakers . Making covenants with God will only condemn you , because you can’t keep them, just like Israel couldn’t . The new covenant, prophesied in the OT and fulfilled by Christ in the NT , is not a covenant we make with God , it is a covenant HE made with those who trust in Jesus . Please read Romans 3-6 it is fully explained .
@@FrederickBergman-gz5yp Death and Hell have entered the world. All are fallen and all are lost. You may want to look up the word fulfilled. It doesn't mean done away with. God doesn't change. We have inherited lies. He's not joking when he says forever. You may want to do a scriptural word search on that too.
@@FrederickBergman-gz5yp There's a difference between being willful breakers of the law, and unwillful. The key is that rebellion is not the same thing as sinful. We are all full of sin, but will we choose to follow God, or will we kick against His will? Latter-day Saints admit that nothing we can do will save us, only the grace of Christ. Yet, He himself asks us to make commitments and to keep his commandments. Not because they will save us inherently, but because they help turn our hearts to him, and to learn to know him, and help us to become more one with him, as He prayed with the apostles before his trial and crucifixion. Covenant implies more than one direction as well, and not all covenants are the same.
I appreciate your insight into Lucifer’s possible reasoning for rebellion; that outcomes would not all be equal. Lucifer’s plan was also very selfish for himself. We would all have no agency, and would not allow us to sin (nor choose) under his plan. Therefore Lucifer would not have to suffer for any of our sins, but still want all of Heavenly Father’s glory and honor; while he literally would do nothing to earn that glory.
Great episode, Greg!
The theory that Satan wanted to force us to be righteous by taking away our ability to sin is incorrect. The devil pursuadeth NO man to do good, no, not one; neither do his angels. Satan did not want us to be righteous, he wanted us to have a free-for-all sin fest down here, but then have no accountability. A much more enticing plan than “I’ll force you to be good robots.”
@@bisonhorne7211actually the word ‘persuade’ connotes agency. Satan’s plan removed all agency. I think his plan wouldn’t work because agency is eternal. We have it unless we give it away. He wanted to strip it from everyone.
After Kearon's talk my son declared him to be Apostle 007
👌👏
I listened to his talk very carefully because he was a new apostle. I thought it was right on and covered both grace and our choice to accept his grace and do right. Thanks for your comments,
13:38 minutes in and your description of what happened with Satan along with despairity... I concur, you nailed it, Greg... and this has been occurring in cycles ever since the war in Heaven... I have a saying I like.... the music is the same, only the musicians have changed. Bravo, my brother Bravo
I actually don't know what you 2 are saying with Satan's plan. Can you clarify?
No matter how hard we try no amount of our own effort (by itself) will make us perfect in this life. Christ's involvement as our tutor and his role as enabler via the holy ghost is the catalyst for change along the pathway of perfection. He saves, but only after we position ourselves in a way for him to save us as we work on meeting the (his) conditions of repentance. Our fastidious focus should be on what we can do in our development and not trying to save ourselves because we do not have that power.
When I first listened to his talk, I was very disturbed by it until I listened a second time. The second time I listen to it, I realized he was not preaching universal salvation, rather he was preaching Heavenly Father’s intent. We can choose what we want, but Heavenly Father’s intent will always be the same, and he is not going to force people to follow that intent. I was very prayerful on this one because I was pretty bothered by it. And that is what I realized, after listening to a second time. God will always have the intent and the desire to bring us home. That doesn’t mean that he can or will because he doesn’t want to suffer the consequences that come from usurping freedom of choice.
This is so 🎯🎯 and so needs to be said, understood and accepted by faithful Latter-day Saints today. Thank you again, Greg!! 👍🏼❤️‼️
When I heard Elder Kearen's talk, I was a bit nervous about how it would be interpreted by some. I don't associate with those groups (not because of disagreement, but because I just don't have the time and my circles aren't in that arena), so I hadn't seen it happen, but it is concerning that it has happened. But I remember while listening to Elder Kearen and nervous that it would be twisted, I also remember that there was nothing doctrinally objectionable in what he taught.
The gospel of Jesus Christ is about repenting and becoming. Neither of these are possible without the Atonement of Christ. And Christ has given us tools to become, those are the commandments, ordinances, and covenants. I have learned this from serving in the Temple and listening to Elder Bednar.
Thanks for helping to clarify Elder Kearen's talk, and putting it in the proper perspective.
His talk was wonderful
The doctrine of salvation through grace alone turning us all into victims was a very interesting topic. Framing it out that way makes me so grateful for the doctrine of exaltation
Grace is that we will all be resurrected and given the opportunity to become Celestial through Christ. To received exaltation we have to make covenants, repent daily, and follow Christ. Everything we receive after this life is through Christ. We all have a choice to make every day. We block the road by our choices.
Please read Rom 1:31, Paul called you a covenant-breaker . Keep reading after that .
"And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God-he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God."
I'm definitely seeing that philosophy more and more in the Church.
Just read that last night....in the end NOBODY gets away with unrepentant sin....consequences will always follow
In what way? Just curious.
@@TureRealD Church members being dismissive of the "less important" things. "A cup of coffee isn't going to keep me out of the Celestial Kingdom." "God doesn't care if I get some extra piercings." "Going to church is hard for me. God understands." "It's R-rated/PG-13 for violence. No big deal. It's not like there's any sex in this movie." "Sometimes profanity is the only good way to express certain feelings."
It's not so much the pit digging but the idea that sinning in "small" ways isn't a big deal and that in the end only the "big" sins are important or worth being concerned about. That sort of thinking.
I think the reason Elder Kearon’s talk resonated with everyone is it emphasizes our Father in Heavens deep love for us.
Why is the first and greatest commandment to love God with all our heart and soul? It’s not because God needs us to love Him… it’s because he knows when we love Him … we open our hearts to feel His love for us. And we want to be more like Him. And we want to serve and love our neighbors… and keep the commandments…. honestly… it’s the only way.
Our prophets and apostles can tell us over and over again how much love there is out there for us… but until each of us individually…. believes and feels this… we won’t really know.
I believe Elder Kearon knows how to open that door so we have the courage to walk thru
Thanks Greg for these videos… I love your perspective ❤
Saved by grace (2 Nephi 10:24) AND judged according to our works(Revelations 20:13) makes sense when we look at the whole plan of salvation. I love the gospel of Jesus Christ!!
"Walking the edge of the sword..." That is so important.
That's why nephi says "after all we can do"... There's a movement to renegotiate what that means but it's pretty simple.... God does expect us to do certain things.... But in the end, we're saved by grace after this life... Because that's when we're judged for our life... So it makes perfect sense for nephi to say after all we can do.
I look at it like this: grace means are all resurrected but after that comes judgment. I believe what James said ie grace without works is dead.
You might want to read the entire chapter 25 of 2 Nephi. Note how many times Nephi mentions “believe” in Christ. Also, read verses 24, 27, and 30 as they relate to verse 23. This verse (23), I believe, has been misunderstood and misused. Then again, there are some who believe that grace and salvation only are provided after they do everything that they’re capable of doing.
@@davidholley1702 many do misunderstand Grace... But there's nothing wrong with trying to do all you can to further the kingdom of God.... As the temple tells us to do.... But I don't think there's a need to renegotiate 2 Nephi.... I know it's a popular thing to do right now and it sounds like you didn't watch this video..... Sure, it says "believe"...... But what's your point? that that's all you have to do is believe?... Course not.... There are things we have to do like baptism.... Faith without works is dead.... But in the end, as you say, Grace will save us.... But that doesn't mean all is done in this life.... that all we have to do is say "we believe".... That sounds like what the Bible thumping mainstream Christians say...." All you have to do is say you believe and all is done" ... That's false doctrine... You need to watch this video again I guess...he Explains it well
Be careful with your accusations. I’ve listened to Greg for years, am on his email list, and look forward to his podcasts. I’ve appreciated his bringing to light many of the problems within some of the Church’s institutions.
However, I don’t always agree with some of the conclusions he arrives at. As with anyone who speaks from a pulpit, I look first to the scriptures for verification of what’s being taught.
I’m glad others are taking a hard look at 2 Nephi 25. There seems to be only one verse of scripture pertaining to grace that is ever mentioned from the pulpit. And that scripture was given to a people who were required to live the law of Moses. It also works well for those who profess mortal perfectionism, or scrupulosity. That belief is not scripturally sound and was not taught by the early apostles.
So it’s okay for some people to push back on teachings they see as being non-scriptural and inconsistent with the Gospel.
You’re welcome to ignore every other grace-related verse of scripture, including Ephesians 2:8-9, which I believe applies to us today, since we’re living under the law of grace, and not under the law of Moses, as were Nephi’s people.
@@davidholley1702 So you disagree with Greg's point here?... What part do you think is non-scriptural?... I don't see how you can disagree with him on this...pretty basic gospel doctrine... Obviously our church believes that in the end Grace saves us...But we look at Grace different that maninstream Christianity... and that's ok...... But Our church has always believed there's things we have to do... like baptism..very biblical teaching Johh 3:5 Mark 16;16, 1 peter 3..... Heck, many Christians believe baptism is necessary... Which would be a "work"... But I don't understand your point... Are you saying all we have to do is say we believe like Bible thumping Christians teach? What is your point here? I don't get it
Fantastic breakdown, Greg! It's not only our doctrine to "do" and "become" it is throughout the New Testament, just ignored by those who want a cheapened and easy grace.
How can grace paid for by the blood of the Lamb be cheap?
@@davidholley1702 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." Paying lip service only without seeking to be a true disciple treats the atonement lightly.
How does that have anything to do with your comment of grace being “cheap?” Christ’s blood was shed for your sins and mine. You seem to believe that this reward is somehow earned by our actions. In other words grace is earned and deserved. Find any verse in the NT that confirms your belief.
@@davidholley1702 Do you really think something as deep as the atonement can be put into little snippets in a comments section? And please don't act as if you will listen to anything I have to say. You are obviously looking for a fight and have no interest whatsoever in entertaining any other viewpoint than what you already believe. As CS Lewis said, forcing the choice between grace and works is like asking someone which half of the scissors they prefer. If you don't understand that both are necessary, you are one that does not understand the Bible.
This is a great message. Your explanation or clarification between grace and Works has made it clearer to me than anything I’ve ever heard.
Great video
Well said, Greg... After we accept Jesus Christ, we then must work at becoming more like Him, like unto the truth said in 2 Nephi 31:19-21.
Excellent. Thank you.❤
You are welcome!
Great video as always!! What you’re talking about I felt the same…Balance, 2 things exist, both have truth but one wants to overpower the other…
This an amazing response Greg.
Those who seek grace seek something for nothing (mostly)
I love that Elder Kearon brings this talent to the 12. Even the other 14 don’t have this (but are still the other 14 😁)
First you had a smiling and jubilant talk on repentance by Brad Wilcox. And now you have a different take on “loving like Jesus loves”.
We are taking a turn in direction that will assist us in choosing to want to return home.
Combine these things with the other conversations like Ward Radio and Stick of Joseph, and CWIC Media, and I’m having a blast learning 😁
This is nothing short of miraculous as seen through my eyes. 😁
Well said👍👏 Mosiah 4:11 and Moses 1:10 man is nothing before God which means humility is required for repentance “which thing I never had supposed “ 💡
Obedience and Commandments are hardly ever talked about anymore.
Nope.
Well shared
Thanks Greg. Great message!
Welcome
Great stuff, Greg, thanks for bringing this into context.
You're welcome!
Listening soon..
Grace is to be EXPERIENCED.
Experiencing grace is a fruit of individuals governing themselves.
"The principle of tyranny maintains that human beings are incurably selfish and therefore cannot govern themselves.
This concept flies in the face of the wonderful declaration of the Prophet Joseph Smith that the people are to be taught correct principles, and then they are to govern themselves." David O. McKay
Love your channel. Was watching the movie Wish and kept thinking about your past conversations with the former guest who worked in the movie animation studios and the messages in movies. Couldn’t help but see how anti patriarchy anti tradition the movie felt.
In fact, Magnifico is the only blue eyed character in the whole movie including the extras. It kinda felt like a targeted anti white male European trope message.
I’d love to have you bringing on your guest ( sorry don’t remember the guests name any more) for a follow up.
I often say that we need boldness and compassion in the gospel. Boldness w/out compassion is unloving, while compassion without boldness lacks truth.
it is often in mormon chat rooms where i read the least well-founded truisms, like this one. it comes across as marching orders for the echo chamber listeners. not that it's technically wrong, just that this comment is so wholly lacking of consideration of people or Christ's doctrine. e.g. does compassion without boldness lack all truth or only some truth? do all situations require boldness with compassion? if not, and only compassion is demonstrated, was there something insidious working behind the scenes??? of course not! that's why we need to can it with these mormon truisms.
Excellent podcast Thank you, thank you! I'll pass this on to my children & grand that are becoming "victims" to some degree in this "woke" ASLEEP world!
Really enjoyed Elder Kearon and your comments concerning his talk. I realize I have always looked at 2 Nephi 9:41 (Keeper of the Gate) as a sifter and strainer of people and possibly I would be sifted out. His talk and your comments are really welcomed by me. I love Elder Maxwells phrase: The Lord of the Narrow Gate. Thanks Greg
I think it is not enough IF an LDS person wants to aim for the highest glory of the Celestial Heaven. But many are not desiring the attainment of the LDS concept of Exaltation. Living at a level of people of goodness with kind people sounds lovely.
Some of us have to wait until the millennium to marry because we don't all have that opportunity here, some have been denied that opportunity of marriage here in this life being of no fault of their own. So those of us in that situation have to learn to wait and look with an eye of faith to the promises that are far off and serve the Lord in his vineyard and do the work for all the others who have passed on. "Give the money to the Exchangers." As I call it when looking at the parable of the talents. While others, when denied the blessing, got impatient with the Lord and didn't wait on the Lord to see the promises afar off and instead buried the gospel down in the ground and threw in the towel and walked away from their covenants and let their oil run out because they wanted a lawless teddy bear Jesus instead of making the sacrifices that are required to obtain the blessings, some just don't seen to have the patience to wait until the next life when certain blessings have been denied them.
"Judgement" isn't the problem, it's the negative actions connected to judgement. We're asked to judge righteously. Where we run into problems is when we act on that without charity.
100%!!
❤🙏🕊❤
People hear what they want to hear. Grace has been addressed more often in last few years but you can see it in talks from decades past also. The brethren seem to be right on in my understanding and consistent over time. Grace is infinite in it reach to the humble and obedient. It allows us the opportunity to learn from our sin instead of being damned by it. We must give all our sins away though in the end. Grace does not save you in sin. We must have faith in Christ ability to save. He makes it clear that this kind of faith means you will do what He commands. You will perform works, not to put on the balance to see if you did enough. You will do them because God and Christ told us to do so and we love and believe Their words. We do not offer the works of man to balance out sin, but we do offer the widow's mite which is all that we have. With this faith and humility, Christ can justify and sanctify us and we will become spotless and desire to sin no more.
While I have heard a lot of the grace vs works discussion, and agree with it, I think we are missing another piece to that puzzle. Focusing on grace is great. Noone is saved except by grace. Now what isn't being talked about as much (President oaks October 2023 conference talk was great at this) is salvation vs exaltation.
So many highlight grace to show acceptance and love yet miss that exaltation is more than salvation alone.
I have often said people are going to get better than what they think they deserve. The terrestrial kingdom will be beyond our wildest dreams. How much great could our joy be if we are exalted? Part of me wonders if a meaning to "how great shall be your joy if you bring 1 soul" being yourself, vs many souls being your eternal spouse and family?
Grace alone is all you need for salvation. Grace after all you can do is for exaltation.
I appreciate this comment.
No one does all they can do.
No, no, no..."all we can do is to accept His atoning sacrifice as payment in full"....this generates the level of humility necessary for our life in eternity
@@lisahill186 I think you would have examine what "all we can do" means. There is an awesome talk in the October 2007 General Conference by Elder Claudio D. Zivic of the Seventy called "After all we can do".
Two quick quotes from this talk:
"Nephi taught us clearly what we ought to do. He said, “For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23). I believe that the first thing we have to keep in mind in doing “all we can” is to repent of our sins. We will never be able to reach our divine potential if we remain in our sins."
And
"Another important principle to remember in doing “all we can do” is to look for and develop the opportunities that life within the gospel constantly offers us and recognize that the Lord has given us all that we have. He is responsible for all that is good in our lives."
Part of being baptized and making covenants is keeping them. Dont accept the philosophy of man that says you can't do all you can do. All you can do is make covenants and keep covenants by repenting and attempting to better yourself. That is what all you can do is. Grace is what saves us. But to throw up your hands and stop trying to improve and repent is allowing Satan to win. Will you still find salvation from physical death? Of course. But covenant makers and keepers do "all they can do" every day that they repent and accept that they are not unprofitable servants.
You CAN do all that you can do. And no it isn't Jesus of the Gaps either. You only get saved through his grace. But your efforts in this life to follow him through continually living the principles of the gospel of Faith and Repentance, combined with your willingness to follow his example in entering covenants through ordinances are what will allow you to live with your family forever and progress forever.
For me, "after all we can do" has to do with recognizing the law and the law giver- Jesus Christ. We can not love grace without also loving the law. For it is the broken law (works)that produces the need for the grace. The purpose of the law was to draw all men unto him.
👍👍👍👍👍
I see a culture that focuses far more on culturally, socially and politically correct ideologies of what the gospel "should" be rather than what the teachings of the gospel actually are. I also see that we have turned into check box disciples, meaning as long as we go to church, pay our tithing, go to the temple then we are saved attitudes. These same people will often go home, belittle their spouse and kids because they believe they are more righteous, obedient and better than their spouse/children.
I believe there are some, like you say, who know, love, and are committed to the LDS culture, but are incredibly weak in their knowledge of scripture and understanding of what is the good news of the gospel. Some think that their works will save them. The early apostles were clear that Christ’s works saved believers and warned those who instead relied upon their own works that they were not under the Lord’s grace. Even the patron apostle of mortal perfectionists, James, warned of that mindset in James 2:10.
13:38 🙌🏻
Excellent. Thanks.
You are welcome!
I think grace and works can be illustrated in a picture of Jesus clearing a path for us that wasn't there before. Do we stand back and thank Him all day for all the work He is doing, or do we pitch in to help? Which action shows our gratitude more?
Can you do a video on the Gospel of Therapy? Would love to hear your take.
The Atonement of Jesus Christ in and of itself should show us WE ARE WORTHY.
The love of God is already on the table, the question is will we love God back.
Matt. 22:37-38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
Isn't the Great Plan of Happiness meant .... in the long run?? 😉
I agree.
I agree, there is a tightrope as you pointed out. I wish he would have included and expounded on this verse in Mosiah 7: 29 For behold, the Lord hath said: I will not succor my people in the day of their transgression; but I will hedge up their ways that they prosper not; and their doings shall be as a stumbling block before them.
Greg , his talk was noteworthy for its LACK of LDS doctrine . He didnt mention “ covenant path “ or quote Nelson like every other speaker. So yes it was refreshing . No his talk was not about grace . He did his best to represent what Jesus taught , while pushing the limit of what the 3rd Article of faith will allow for ( saved by obedience to laws and ordinances) But he did not teach the New Testament gospel . He did not discuss what Christ actually accomplished on the Cross for sinners . He did not discus how to actually get saved , and what that means . He mentioned grace once , speaking of it as an enabling power to keep commandments, which isn’t what the word means unless your Mormon . He finishes quoting Heb 9 , and mentioning the torn veil allowing all free access to God , but he forgot to mention “ free access without PRIESTHOOD intermediaries or supplemental temple/religious ordinances” , which was the main point of Heb 8, and is essential for understanding the meaning of a torn veil in ch 9. If you want grace , read Paul . You won’t get it from the LDS apostles , their doctrine won’t allow it
Listening to someone talk about grace does nothing for you, you must still govern yourself and be actively engaged in the process of sanctification.
When I hear "Christ is the prototype", that means all the theory was proven correct in him, and is the pattern to compare our Eternal Progress against to make our way back to the Father.
Grace is all those little hints we get in the refining process in our attempt AND the last portion to finish the race when we can go no more.
( I'm terrible at putting narrative to my thoughts, but I hope this is adequate)
It came to me when I was about 30 years old, why would the rank and file members think to attain the same exaltation that the prophet and apostles attain. I recently read about apotheosis and then it made sense.
My grandfather and father ofton used that phrase " rank and file." it was not a compliment. May I ask what apotheosis is? Sincerely
@@safrew1the elevation to a God. The belief that to become a God you must first be a savior.
Can someone share with me the difference between exaltation and Ressurection?
I appreciate the descriptive application of Grace. I do not believe in cheap grace. Jesus Christ paid the ultimate price so we could choose to take upon ourself the character of Jesus Christ. That is what Grace looks like. Selfless, sacrificial. Completely loved and loving. Nothing is more beautiful to me than to witness the character of Christ in someone who may be going through adversity. I see them choose to be full of joy, and peace as they trust in God to work in them that light. His light. Happiness is contingent to outward circumstances. Joy is a gift of the Holy Ghost. To live God's commandments is a faith demonstration. ❤😊 Not a victim! But victorious through the atonement! It is the most powerful gift of all!
May I attempt to explain to the knowledge and understanding I have? The difference between resurrection and exaltation can be both different and the same depending on how and to what degree you have received Christ's Atonement in this life. The Resurrected Telestial and Terrestial bodies are not exalted. They do not have the creative powers that an exalted body has. In that case, resurrection and exaltation would not be the same. However, if you are resurrected to a Celestial state- exaltation, then the Resurrection and exaltation would be the same. In each case, the Atonement of Jesus Christ is applied to the level or degree it is received by the individual son or daughter of God in this life.
Christianity looks at works as if it diminishes or disregards the grace of the Savior. When in fact no one can have any effect on His grace. Just like eternal punishment is eternal, so is His grace regardless of how many works one does. "For we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do". So, we should think the Savior would sacrifice everything for us and not ask something in return? I would consider a very small portion of the return he asks of us as works.
I like this!
There are many, many other verses of scripture that teach us about the Lord’s grace. I suggest reading and studying them. I also suggest reading the entirety of 2 Nephi 25 in order to better understand the meaning of that verse (23), who Nephi was speaking to, and what “all we can do” means. Nephi actually answers that in verses 24, 27, and 30.
"Great plan of happiness" is a Book of Mormon term.
I know. I still don’t like it.
@@CwicShow I dont like it either. It is repeated so often that the majority of my conversations with friends who left the church is that they weren't happy.....so the Gospel wasnt "working for them" . We equate church/ gospel with happiness.
I equate the gospel with greater FUTURE happiness and sometimes some happiness now. Im sure that Lehi and Nephi and Joseph Smith and Moses and pioneer families and Emma Smith and others who experienced immense suffering did not equate the gospel with happiness. They had moments of Joy but lived lives where I am sure there was a lot of unhappiness . There are plenty of scriptures and church history that show they didnt constantly live in a state of happiness. Emma smith once said that looking back on her days in the church brought her a lot of pain and hard memories. And I can understand that!
My friends and family who left are pretty happy so that leads them to believe it was a right decision.
So often we paint a picture of happiness that many members cant/wont achieve in this life. Every church video on happiness shows family and friends and status in the church. I am mentoring a new convert kid right now. Hes 23....never been on a date. Has zero friends (other than me now) . No church status. No family support. This is more common today than people think. Constantly have talks with him about this topic of happiness because its repeated far too much .
@ruckin3 Accurate, compassionate post. The happiness spoken of is not for this life: If for this life alone we have hope in Christ, we are of all most miserable.
I think it is greatly misunderstood. And causes lots of confusion and dispare. We are in a fallen state. Is there really a lot of happiness to be found here? We also talk of taking up our cross. For me, in my journey with Christ, the latter is by far the most prevalent. There are occasional "sunsets." And because of the constant struggle, those moments of happiness are all the more glorious!
It's irresponsible (and evangelical pandering) to teach that God is relentlessly pursuing unless repeatedly and clearly stating how to qualify for a higher relationship with God and then qualify that statement. Elder Kearon failed to do that.
The scriptures clearly teach that God is not relentlessly pursuing us. Mosiah 11:25 clearly states that unless people repent....that God will not hear their prayers. (no relentless pursuit here).
Revelation 3:20. God stands at the door waiting for us to covenant with him. He is not opening the door and running all over chasing us down. (again no relentless pursuit to be found here)
Greg is correct when he states that we dont teach commandments and qualifications nearly as much as we used to. We havent really had that since the teddy bear softening of the church. That was the beginning of a softer more feminine (mercy) church and less import on the justice part of the equation.
Last night I went out with a 21 year old girl and she admitted she has slept with 8 guys. . She didnt think it was a problem compared to "most girls she knows" and actually thought it was low and reasonable .
I crossed her off the list. Sounds like an outlier but Kwaku recently stated that the patriarchy is soft which has led to hookup culture and Provo-Orem is a mini soddom and Gomorrah. Most all his friends are having sex he said...and hes very well connected. Ive never found a virgin to date. Same as inside the church or outside. People laugh when you expect virign or a couple screw ups maximum. We created this because we wanted a soft church and God delivered same as people wanted a King despite His warning.
It gets a heavy and cheap applause line when we teach the all too common YSA / girls camp / womens conference, "you are loved just the way you are", "you are enough", "God is relentlessly pursuing you" narrative.
No, no and no. Oh geeze.......
I don't think you listened to all of Elder Kearon's talk.
@@gemelindacjp7976 I didnt , who's elder Keaton? He gave a talk? when?
When I was in high school I was satisfied with average grades. When I did sports I was never the best but did good. At my job I'm happy to not move up the ladder of leadership. I'm good with middle class. Etc
How am I supposed to become motivated to achieve the highest glory/kingdom and with all the assumed responsibilities when I can't even comprehend what that means?
What if " think celestial" becomes more like " think terrestrial" and I'm okay with that?
Just like I wouldn't seek to become a bishop, I can't bring myself to seek to become a God.
That's fine. Agency is a beautiful thing. But with more responsibility comes more joy and growth. We choose our own eternities.
That doesn't count across as egotistical to you?
It feels like the pre med student feeling superior to the art student when neither of them have even gotten degrees.
I feel like the next life will be incredibly humbling for all of us.
I'm not trying to argue and enjoy these videos. If someone could link a past topic to help with this I'd be grateful.
I was raised LDS, was a good kid, served a mission, married in the temple, raised/raising seven kids, attend meetings, strive at my callings etc, but I can't harness the motivation for exhalation, when salvation feels like all I could ask for right now
I appreciate you our honest assessment and question. I don’t have any answers. I find myself self in a similar contentment. I mean, I strive to be like Christ, but I’m not an A type personality my any stretch. I don’t relate at all to the nature of others who are “achieving “. I love, my simple , peaceful life.
@@kristinrichmond8185 sometimes I feel like the world, and honestly the church, are always asking us to become more.
As I age I get the impression that Jesus is asking us to be less. Less complicated, less competitive, less prideful, less worried, less judgemental.
I value a peaceful simple life. To find that in this crazy world is a treasure. I'd hate to lose that in this life because I got too worried on the next one. As we lose ourselves we find ourselves.
I understand that Jesus descended to us so He could raise us up and not have us stay stagnant, but if I focus on gratitude I feel like I'm on a better path than if I focus on becoming a ruler and King. That does nothing for me.
You used the phrase "walking the sword". Where did you get that phrase? In addition to being a member of the church, are you a traveling man?
Where does that phrase come from? Bible Belt?
I use the phrase often- it is "walking the edge of the sword" I didn't get it from anywhere specifically, but I have heard it before. What I mean by it is that it is hard to find, hard to do, and easy to fall off on both sides. Truth is narrow and you can get pulled away on both sides.
Why don't you like the 'plan of happiness' phrase?
Because "happiness" is not the goal. Doing what is right can be tough. It doesn't always make you happy. I don't determine whether something is true by my happiness barometer. Something like that.
@@CwicShow got it.
Doing what is right should always make you happy . Why wouldn’t it ? Wickedness never was happiness . Yes we ate ti have joy here .
@@CwicShowI agree
Doing what is right does always make you happy . You do not like the consequences it may bring .
5:13 sounds like Palestine situation
I think at this time the”Gentiles”need to be in a “ repentance “ mode thats why they’re in a “ Grace” mood! Jesus Christ is both a Lion and a Lamb and scripture tells us if we don’t repent ( no he’s not talking about those other Gentiles) he will send in a people and they will tread over us like a lion! Repentance in Preach My Gospel means looking at God and the world with fresh eyes. We are given all the tools from heaven to succeed but victimhood is an excuse for not trying… Laman and Lemuel were lazy! Throughout the Bk of M you see we will be “ judged by our works.” I have met so many in my profession who both feel entitled and unworthy at the same time… it’s not so simple to come to Jesus for these people.
I’m curious about this works vs grace argument. 🤔
Doesn’t it seem odd that we have never been willing to avoid the trap of it?
We keep saying “The Atonement is a debt we can never repay”.
Can I suggest something here?
No it’s not a debt…it’s a gift.
There’s no repayment required.
Yes, we see teachings around it being a debt in scripture.
But I believe it was for simpler minds who couldn’t understand the gift.
Jesus actually talks a lot about gifts and debts.
Debts make the debtor a slave.
Are we slaves because of the atonement?
Without agency, we are.
No, we need to raise our conversation around this to a better, more honest level.
The broad, generalized, rhetorical question about debts making us slaves is flawed. Debts to a mortal being may make us slaves, but debts to members of the Godhead do not.
This is my understanding -
Jesus Christ overcame Death so All will be resurrected.
He loves us But I don’t think resurrection is a part of Grace - this is the physical salvation.
Grace has to do with my spiritual exaltation.
I am to choose to Be all I can Be.
To be exalted means that I am “placed in a degree of great status, and held in high regard”.
Thinking about this - I can see how Lucifer sinned - he wasn’t worthy of the exaltation he was seeking - because he was missing the most important part. -
A Love so strong that it makes it possible to become One with God.
The greatest commandment is
Love God - so we will know how to Be One with Him and each other.
Jesus Christ did this and in the process created Grace - with His perfect love.
His Grace does not infringe upon my Agency - it creates a door - through Jesus Christ - a way back to my Heavenly Father.
He commands me over and over to - “seek, knock, ask”.
I believe His door of Grace is the only door through the veil.
We can open it - but Only Through Him.
- my understanding
I guess we now have to apply the Empathy/Knowledge quadrant chart and the Wisdom pyramid into the conversation to form/frame the "victim statement" of the Lamanites, as per the information released in Mosiah 10: 12-16. The Narrative is framed by Nephi, now lets look at what knowledge is reported in the scriptures... Nephi never died from the hands of his brothers, Nephi left his brothers and departed into the wilderness, he robbed them taking the brass plates etc, Nephi ruled over his brothers because he was favored of the Lord, they were wronged in the land of their first inheritance.... So, I guess when we are to apply the commandment of Jesus in 3 Nephi 23; 1, we need to learn the manner of the Jews to understand how the Lamanites might perceive or teach why or how they were wronged... If we don't do this, why are we simply approaching this with low empathy and low knowledge. Also we dont want to ignore the other side of the coin
I love your show.
Nephi was favored of the Lord but wronged his brethren in the land of their first inheritance? This statement makes no sense, especially since Nephi was forced to flee for his life from their first land. And what use would his brothers have made of the brass plates? The same as Laban? This is exactly the dangerous, too-clever-by-half, re-writing of The Book of Mormon from a warped opressor vs. opressed mindset that we should avoid. It was an angel of the Lord who proclaimed that God had chosen Nephi to lead, and that because of his brothers' iniquities. This attitude toward Nephi is just like that of the early Saints who called Joseph Smith a fallen prophet.
Is the Church too woke?
I don't see the connection between grace alone and a victim mentality & critical theory.
The basis of grace alone is that you are a sinner who can never be reconciled to the Father by your own efforts and merit, because of the guilt of your sin separates you from Him
Victim mentality and critical theory absolves you of having committed any guilt whatsoever and excuses all pathologies as the results of oppression.
I have heard it said that critical theory tells the oppressed that they don't need a Savior, and that for the oppressor, the Savior isn't enough. That makes sense to me.
The basic Mormon doctrine regarding Grace is THIS -
Essentially, we are saved by grace, but only after all we can do. In a nutshell.
The BYU religious studies center on the internet has a few pages speaking of this.
It's based on a verse in the Book of Mormon - 2 Nephi 25:23 -
We need a savior whether or not we are oppressed. Exactly what do we believe is "enough" if the Savior is not enough? That's the grand unanswered question, but is unanswered ONLY for people who dismiss Christ. SO many people are blind ... but they have NO clue of it.
I don't necessarily disagree with anything in this video (besides Satan having malevolent compassion and wanting "fairness"), but when members of the church say "obedience" what do they mean?
Here's my experience:
Most members believe obeying commandments means:
-Attend Church
-Serve in your calling
-Do your required ministering
-Attend the Temple regularly
-Pay tithing
-Read Scriptures daily
-Don't drink alcohol and coffee
-Do family home evening
-Wear a white shirt and tie to church
-Shave your beard and cut your hair to serve as a Bishop
-Don't watch Rated R Movies
-Help people move
-Don't lie at your corporate job (as much as possible 😂)
-Invite friends occasionally to church
-Help the missionaries from time to time
-Vote for conservative candidates
-Do some family history every now and then.
-1 year minimum food storage to somehow make it through society collapsing
-Comfortable Job with Comfortable house
-Comfortable car to get your kids to all the youth activities
There's obviously things I missed, but do you agree church members, especially from Utah? This is what I always thought.
Now, go read 3rd Nephi 11 and the entire message Christ has for the Nephites. How many of those things match what Christ is actually asking us to do? Very, very few. In fact, I hardly personally know a single soul who I feel is even close to the Characteristics or Commandments that Jesus was telling us to exemplify and focus on.
Please hear me fellow church members, I don't think any of those things I listed are inherently wrong or bad. However, all of those things are not the goal. Those are all either programs or actions that are supposed to get us to REPENT, change our hearts and have THE CHARACTER OF CHRIST. Most of the things I listed are PERFORMATIVE they are not the point. You do those things so your heart is changed, you reject Mammon and give your entire heart, soul and mind to Christ and live like him.
Most members (from my experience, myself included) expect to present that check list to God and say, "See, here are my works where I obeyed, now let that Jesus Grace save me".
IMHO, I think we're all going to be surprised when we learn most of that checklist wasn't the "commandments". Those were policies and programs instituted by well meaning but flawed people within the church but ended up being pharisaical. God didn't institute the Law of Moses to save His people. It was to change their heart and motivation. They turned the gospel and commandments into performative obedience.
I'm sorry guys, but WE do that. 98%+ of active members DO THIS. We are under condemnation as a church and it's not because we're failing on that obedience checklist. We are, for the most part, completely missing the point. We are the people the Book of Mormon warns about. We are the gentiles that have forgotten Christ. We don't live like Him. I've only met a handful of people iny entire life who truly reflect most aspects of Christ. We are mostly just performing this checklist.
I beg of you, the checklist (for the most part) is not the point. Don't turn the checklist into the Law of Moses. Go read Christ's words in the BOM. Write them down. See how many of those things you REALLY struggle with. Are you actually honest? If everyone around you heard all of your thoughts, would you be spotless? Do you secretly try to look good or nice to impress people around you or appease a leader of some kind? Is your literal house and all the things in it a reflection of humility, service and love to your fellow man and God, or is it mostly full of Mammon and adhering to current conservative fashion trends because heaven forbid someone come over and your house doesn't reflect a typical conservative, nice Utah Mormon house? Do you own more than 6 pairs of clothing or shoes? Why? Did you wear makeup today? Why? Is that honest or is wearing makeup a lie? When you put "Sunday clothes" on and did your hair, did you think about how that would please God or did you mostly worry about how other members would see you? Who did we drive around that week that can't afford a car? Why did we spend so much on that car? Would Jesus do that?
How many times in the last week did you actually go and serve the poor, visit someone in prison, comfort those in need of comfort, mourn with others or shared a personal testimony? How much did you watch TV on the Sabbath? Who in your ward did you just go visit and sincerely talk with because it wasn't an assignment? How much time did you spend on your phone or computer arguing politics and watching Fox News to get outraged about your "enemies"? Go read what Jesus said about your enemies.
I'm just saying guys, WE ARE MISSING THE POINT, me included. What are we doing?! We are under condemnation and we are going to be destroyed, as the BOM says, because there are so many rich and poor among us and we do the performative acts of righteousness and service rather than just having it be our innate Character. Most members are not obeying the commandments. They are completing a church checklist.
Greg, from this and other videos of yours, it sounds like if someone doesn't equally talk about justice, then you think that person is trying to ignore or omit justice from the gospel (to believe in your "teddy bear Jesus"). you speak as though *you* know Christ's gospel perfectly. i don't think focusing on grace means that a person is ignoring justice and is not as knowledgeable of Christ's gospel as you may be. i think it instead likely and simply means that they are laying their burdens at Christ's feet, allowing their problems to be swallowed up in the atonement of Christ, and to "bear a song away". Joseph Smith said that God views people and his commandments in terms of eternity, and that it'll take 'an eternity' to achieve perfection and exaltation. so, while we *learn* how to perfectly keep the commandments (and "offer our whole soul to him") along the difficult journey of this life (remembering that life is more difficult for some people than others), why not often throw our hands up in the air and praise Jesus' holy name for the grace of his infinite saving atonement?
Is Kearon too woke?
Yes. Cwic is too weak to admit
@@MRADefeat I don't think he is too weak, he just doesn't want a disciplinary counsel for speaking out against the brethren, can't say I blame him. Look what happened to Bill Reel and John Dehlin, originally they were onboard but once they became too honest with some of their discussions, it quickly spiraled out of control and then the Church went after them. He has to walk a fine line here, he can see what is happening but it is hard to broach the subject without appearing antagonistic toward the Church.
The Church under Nelson really has become more woke. Our unique "Mormon" identity is being stripped away. We are becoming more mainstream Christian. More acceptance of LQBTQ doctrine. Promoting Covid vaccines and masks. Watering down the temple endowments (woman no longer covenant to their husbands etc...) Three hour meeting block reduced to two hours. Missionaries can talk to their mommies every week (soft). The list goes on and on.
Honestly, I don't get all the need for the temples. Why doesn't the Church build some rec centers or gyms for the membership. The biggest problem right now in America is obesity (and as a result type 2 diabetes and cancer). Give something to the membership that actually helps them and allows them to foster a greater sense of community and wholesome activities.
Daniel the AI agrees with you because you've put it into cyberspace. Daniel is returning to you what you said. It's circular.
While, this is possible, it’s unlikely. Many scholars have written on the Suffering Servant as a ritual, though not as many focus on temple context.
@@CwicShow one of the thing we must do as we follow Christ is to take our own bitter cup like he did. Christ succeeded in taking the bitter cup without becoming bitter. Will we do the same?
@@andrewdurfee3896I appreciate this comment.
I found it odd that he started out his talk with a WEF Marxist oppressor vs oppressed attack on law enforcement, I couldn’t believe my ears. (And I don’t blindly love LEOs or give them an automatic pass) Anyway, when he was called I was excited, and then I listened to his previous conference talks and realized that the church is choosing a path of wordliness; no longer inspiring obedience but now encouraging more of a “do whatever the hell you want you’ll be fine” approach.
It’s ok, we might grow because of it but I doubt it. If I want a grace only church led by paper and an unknowable God I’ll go join the ranks of those who killed Joseph and raped our women and children while kicking us off our land back in the mid nineteenth century in a false Protestant church.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say again, after Bednar we’re a beta church. 😢
What the heck are you rambling on about You are crazy
What do you mean "after Bednar were a beta church" ? Sincerely. Thank you.
@@lindamartinez7006 Just my thoughts, that’s all. I just feel like our church is headed more and more towards the ideologies of the world and it bothers me.
@@safrew1 I should have not been so crass. I, like many, will miss the apostolic group of giants among us, who are dying off. Direct, passionate preaching and pleading is going to become a thing of the past after Bednar in my mind. It’ll be just “love, love, more love” without any need for change (repentance and obedience to commandments). It is creating weakness. That’s all. Sorry, I shouldn’t be spreading my frustrations for all to see I guess. :)
@@dcarts5616 Thank you for responding. I feel your struggle and heart intent. And I relate.