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"So easily persuaded, so quick to turn" - the guy who does a 180° heel turn and runs to the Netherbrain he's been fighting the whole game if you don't agree with him
he has no stones and he was torturer of mortheus, and he killed most of his royal guards, of course there is still need of illithid but who can guarantee that mortheus wont kill emperor and turns himself? so his joining absolute is just simple calculation of risks, I remind you that illithid is pure rational creature, they have no "soul"/"heart" to do irrational things
he has calculated this to be his biggest chance of survival, that's all. Sometimes you gotta do 180° turns to zig-zag and survive the shots taken at you
@@GentleBreeze-72I had the same kind of interaction with Vlaakith, after she asked me to kill my guardian (The emperor) I told her that if she was a god she surely could kill anyone, anywhere. She proceeded to instantly kill me.
@@DOPSTARZzzOne of the funniest moments of the game. But it makes me wonder, if she has the power to delete you at will, why does she impotently threaten you at your camp later if Lae'zel refuses her final pitch, or send her goons to kill you throughout the rest of the game? I don't know if the game ever explains that, maybe it's something about the creche that amplifies her ability to project power there?
@@plain_simple_garakshe kills you using a wish spell, which has text saying that there is a 1/3 chance that you can never cast wish again. So, you can’t go around casting that spell willy-nilly, but the Tav questioning her godhood pisses her off so much that she casts it in an act of hubris.
The Dungeon Master: “So… you gave him the stones, your ONLY leverage in the situation, and you suddenly want to go against his wishes?” The players: “Well we for damn sure are NOT going to kill Orpheus, we’re gonna find another way and the Emperor can cry about it.” The DM: “…Are you absolutely positive this is the route you want to go down? Bc you essentially just gave him the power to turn you all into Mind Flayers with zero consequences to himself.” Players: “We just hit level 12, anything he throws our way we can handle.” DM: “…Alright, bet. He immediately calls you all idiots, flies over to the prince, starts to eat his brain, and you feel the protection from The Absolute start to fade as unfathomable psychic might pushes you all to the ground. He finishes eating Orpheus, and promptly fucks off through a portal to 1v1 The Absolute. You suddenly find yourselves in the Absolute’s mind, the protection aura from Orpheus completely gone. It orders you all to transform, which you immediately and very graphically do as your skin and bones break apart to reveal new slimy flesh underneath. The last thing you all hear is the word “Thrall” ringing in your minds. Thanks for playing y’all, bring new character sheets to the next session. And we’re going to be meeting in 2 weeks instead of 1 because I need to create a whole new story with new characters that acts as a sequel to this campaign.”
@@arc_1704tbh another reason why it's stupid is that the party had ample time to attack the Emperor after he said he's gonna munch on the brain, instead they all just stand there as they like to do
@@Warland3r Like the players would actually stand a chance at that point. the guy ain't called Emperor for nothing, Orpheus was just like 3 feet away & the meal would only take seconds to finish. the players would get less than one turn of time to do anything by that point, & they'd be against a damn powerful being who's held his own against very seasoned githyanki warriors pretty all on his own for weeks, if not months.
@@FalconWindblader "that very powerful being" dies in turn 1 along with a dragon a 4 peasants, in DnD 1 turns is 6 seconds, so let's divide it by 2 since you don't have to kill the dragon and yeah, you can totally kill the Emperor before he kills Orpheus. Also in one of the illithid endings you can end Emperor yourself in about a second, when you don't waste time talking. This crazy OP dude whatever you wanna call him gets stun blasted and goodbye. And finally - they could just attack while he's having his super long "you're screwed" monologue before he even really does anything.
I lost my first Honor mode run in the same way. Had only played tactician once before, and I didn't know that specific dialog choice consequences. So after butchering Ch'r'ai W'wargaz and his goons like they were nothing, I had so much self-confidence that I disrespected Vlaakith to look good in Shadowheart's eyes, and lost an over 70 hours long run because of this😅
@@riffgroove yea… it just hasn’t been something I’ve experienced, and thus didn’t know. Nothing the game did wrong to end it. Purely my fault, but it was a bit annoying. I also don’t get her whole thing from that interaction. I told her if she was a God, then why couldn’t she do it herself; at which point she got angry and just made everyone in the room die. So like… why can’t she do her dirty work, but she can just make us die by looking at us? Idk… I’m a bit salty, and maybe a bit racist with the gith… just never really liked them.
The moment you hand the Emperor the Netherstones should have been the moment you could try to convince him to trust you to spare Orpheus. You just gave him the most important part of defeating the Absolute. He should have realized you have put an insane amount of trust in him and returned the favor for once. Nope. The dude is just using us. Never cared about us at all. We were just a means to an end to be used so he could accomplish his goals.
It was an illithid so it made sense. People humanising it and dumping their trust into it rather than doing their own diligence deserve anything that comes. Still, siding with the Emperor rather than with Orpheus is worse cuz the evil litch doesn’t get her comeuppance, plus the Emperor is useless in combat.
And there's people out there doing all sorts of mental gymnastics trying to defend him. "What about all these other evil people in your party? They can do bad things too!" You mean the ones you can talk down and get to shift to the side of good the way you can't with the emperor? "But if you blindly follow him, I mean help him, he won't betray you!" No crap. Of course if you do what he wants he doesn't turn hostile. The point is that it's literally his way or the highway. Your companions you can talk down from most situations Not this guy. This guy there's one and only one way to play nice with him. He will NOT stand down and look for an alternative. And he's wrong too. Orpheus does work with you and doesn't kill you if you turn ilithid. Meaning he very well might have worked with the emperor against the greater threat. Maybe. We never get the chance because the emperor never trusts us. He's a really good actor, but you can see how easily he betrays us. Orpheus will work with you as an ilithid, he'll work with karlach as an illithid, hell, he'll even turn into an illithid himself to stop the netherbrain. He might have been willing to work with the emperor... The emperor don't care about the party. So long as they remain useful and do things his way, he's happy.
@@Creshosk Just finished the game for the first time. I was sure, that giving him the stones was the end either way. There lots of lore here and there regarding illithid behavior. I'm really surprised how out of character was his way of dealing with netherbrain in the end. Like, I completely expected him to just assume control of the "absolute" there and you as a player had to stop him at the last moment. Instead he said something about "can't face githyanki with this power". I don't buy this at all. In my playthrough, I think, I went with the most logical course of action. Raphael is willing to make contract with you to get the crown. Even if you don't accept it, that's the most crucial information in the game imo. At this point, we don't know how Orpheus will behave, but what we do know - if Orpheus was to betray you, Raphael would never bet his crown ambition on him, and instead would've tried the emperor approach. Therefore, it's logical, that the Orpheus route would most likely work, since again, Raphael, wants the crown "more than anything in the world", so providing us with the wrong plan would backfire his goals, that's why he is so eager to deliver the means for it too - hammer itself. This way, I decided to free Orpheus, without taking Raphael's deal (just getting logical conclusions from it). The moment when emperor did 180, I knew, I had done the right choice. I though, in the alternative version he would do that later either way, but in that timeline he would have had the stones, so fighting him would have been much more risky. So, I am really disappointed that Orpheus, with a power to resist netherbrain, still wasn't able to use netherstones without illithid help. That's really off. And was disappointed that emperor doesn't betray you if you give him the stones. Just to not "upset" players who trusted him ig? I don't get why you ever would.. They could've easily just provided you with a fail save option to fight him off in the end where you decide the brains fate after he says something like "thanks, that's all I ever wanted" (it's still lame to say that out loud for him, but ob well, I'm not a plot writer, they can figure out it better)
@@elion4245 Why would the emperor side with the netherbrain? It wants to be free of its influence, it has been under its influence multiple times before, and still, just before the final confrontation it admits to having underestimated and being manipulated by the brain. If the options are a) kill the netherbrain, and b) give up on killing it, allow it to become stronger and dominate it, at least in the short term, then even if not killing the brain weren't the chaotic stupid thing to do, it is contrary to the emperor's only goal besides survival. Even if we assume that the emperor could somehow keep the thing dominated literally forever, regardless of whether it's true or not, the emperor seems to believe the brain when it says it has manipulated the plot all along, from far before it was ever out of the control of the crown. And again, being free from the brains machinations is the one thing it wants.
Bro's been putting brain bugs in his cranium and when the consequences of his actions finally reach him he goes: "WOW THAT'S STUPID". You love to see it.
That's essentially what happened to me in my first Honor playthrough. Though it was while fighting Ansur, after beating Raphel. I clicked the wrong button, cancelling the Globe of Invulnerability surrounding my entire party 1 second before Ansur 1-shot everyone... I did not make that mistake the 2nd time :P
I like how the emperor always claims he is "good" but he always show how Manipulative and sinister he really is. I only sided with him for the archivement of f him
He is "practical good" he will try to do good and HAS done good in the past, but he will not do so at the eventual cost of his own freedom or live. And if you do something that might put either of these two in danger he WILL stop you.
@@mermidion7552 no. He isnt good. You can Even find out how his "good actions" we're just schemes and he controled the mind of his allies in order to act at his will.
@@mermidion7552nah he’s not good, the game heavily hints that he is just manipulating you the whole time and has no real feelings. He even reveals this himself when you choose the rude rejection on his romance. He only cares about himself and views you as an asset he can use to his advantage.
That's what is called pragmatism. From his own perspective, he does what he thinks he has to do, and the criticallity of the situation means the use of extreme measures. If I had to match it with the alignment system of DnD, I'd say he is purely neutral, like a machine would be, or even neutral evil. Or in other words, it's the attitude where the end justify the means, and that is generally considered quite an evil stance, regardeless of your goals. Evil people can do good, if it's in their own interest. Good people can make bad choices and do pretty horrible things, when they are misguided.
@@theslay66 i'm not going to read all that crap. Cause the emperor kill His Best friend, He mind controlled a counselor for his own benefit and lied that she was his lover. He sacrifices anyone who cannot benefit from it and refuses to assist them. Thats not "kind off" evil. Is pure evil
Why would you whole party stand there watching while hes snacking on orpheus brain. He even tells your party his plans before doing it. Minthara would of killed him in seconds🙈
@@zeamjang7958 Orpheus extends his protection to you if the Emperor leaves in the other endings. As long as you kept Orpheus alive, you should be fine.
yeah he could have done it if he kept the stones and then said F* you to Balduran lol. But without them anything he would have done but siding with the emperor would have lead to demise, like it did.
I’ve spent my run never trusting him and I still thought that turn was fast. Gotta enjoy the rails at times, and insane logic like stumbling into a conversation that ends other quests or kills companions. 10/10 game of the year
The final bits of the game are definitely the weaker parts of the game. Orpheus, the son of a god not being able to wield the neatherstones to stop the brain. No way to persuade the Emperor to give Orpheus a chance.
@@unionblue21 The second one does make sense. Orpheus hates the Emperor both as Ghaik and personally and had the power to instantly kill him by removing the protection. Releasing Orph is just such a massive, cataclysmic risk that Emps won’t do it. Orph has NO reason to keep him alive and EVERY reason to kill him off
@@unionblue21 Orpheus hails from a time where they've just broken off from the ghaik's leash. his hatred for ghaik is first hand & very VERY personal. there's just no convincing a person who has made their life mission specifically to destroy a very specific something, in just a moment's notice.
@@UTFx13007 Of course he seems chill, he's royalty after all. You can't go about leading your people to war & greatness if you go about throwing tantrums when things don't go your way, or hell, just people saying or doing things you don't like hearing or seeing. Chill-looking people can still have a lotta bottled up fury & hate & resentment in them, & i speak from personal experience.
The entire game is an analogy of Larian and WoTC relationship in making BG3: Wotc = The Emperor Netherbrain = decision to embrace corporations or not Player = Larian Oprehus = Artistic integrity
The prism doesn't make a lot of sense. You kill the emp and you die even though prince alive. But then he kills the prince and somehow the emp still has free will. just makes no sense
Well I want to say by killing Orph he gains the extra resistance needed to stand against the Nether brain, right? Their whole thing is absorbing brains and memories and such. He is the one using Orpheus' latent mental abilities and utilizing the prism at the same time, killing him there just screws that defense up since you don't know how to do it. That's always how I interpreted it though.
Idk, people who started with BG3 is suppose it makes sense they distrust a filthy ghaik, but for long time bg players who know he is THE Balduran, founded the Gate and all his other feats, defaulting to trusting and respecting him is only natural...despite his catfishing
"Your only option is to trust me" yeah and that irks me a little bit you have to kill orpheus, or have someone else become a mindlfayer, there's literally no other options and that sucks. Literally only complaint about this game
Except turning Karlach into a squid is the way to save her life from her engine. Any other ending only buys her time at best. So turning Karlach into a player is arguably a good ending for her.
@@raikaria3090 But when you turn into a mind flayer you die, like straight up. You don't even have a soul anymore to like move on to a better place. It's literally not karlach anymore, it's a mindflayer who thinks it's karlach because her memories are the ones it started with when it was "born" She has to eat brains to survive and with every one she eats she becomes less karlach and more of a hivemind
@@raikaria3090 Even though if she goes to avernus with Wyll/romanced Tav, she reveals she has found plans for a way to fix her engine in Avernus. Honestly becoming a flayer is a fate worse than death. If she goes to Avernus with the Blade of Avernus/Tav, that is her best ending by a country mile.
The "cleanest" solution is to have Gale blow up in act 3. Noone becomes a mindflayer. Yes, Gale dies, but at least his soul is still there. Also, you can get the emperor to reveal his thoughts to you, admitting he was just manipulating and gaslighting you the entire time, while switching to threats to control you.
Definitely a stupid way to lose. You and the entire group just stand there while the Emperor gives exposition and then eats the brain. Could you have done nothing during that time like stick a sword in the Emperor's stomach?
Lae'zel wants to free Orpheus, and you agree after giving the Netherstones to the Emperor. I've never done this path before, but I've given the Emperor the Netherstones before and all has been well. I imagine it's Lae'zel/Oprheus tripping the character up here.
Because while you hold the nether stones you have a higher chance of beating him, and if he stops focusing on Orpheus for one moment, then Orpheus can wake up and help in the attack (especially if you free him during the fight. Also, the Emperor doesn’t honestly want the Netherbrain to win. True he puts his own survival above all else, but he wasn’t lying about wanting to get rid of the Netherbrain. It’s part of the reason why I generally work with him. Sure he’s out for himself more than anything. But all he really wanted (good or bad) was to run his city, not rule the galaxy (which is what the Gith want to do). Is he manipulative? Definitely. Has he done some bad things? Yep. But the player can also be a manipulative person (intimidation/persuasion), and do some horrendous things to… so turn about fair play lol.
Well the emperor is still illithid my dude. He's a sentient zombie, he is not Balduran. As for your logic, idk... turning you over and withholding protection is the only move that makes sense because he literally switched sides and you are in the way of his safety. At that point, you're expendable. There is 0 reason why, if he IS the reason you didn't turn and Orpheus' power needs to be channelled, he didn't just make you transform and follow the Absolute. He wants to live. If he is in control , more or less, of the parasites, and you are the obstacle to his survival, it makes 0 sense that he wouldn't make you transform and become enthralled. That's assuming that Orpheus' power needs to be channelled, rather than him radiating a disruptive psionic energy. So you have two plot holes, depending on what is true. Plothole one: the Emperor dying should not have transformed you into a mindflayer, or caused the Absolute to "find you" because Orpheus' protection is not something that needs to be actively channelled, not to mention that the Astral Plane is realms away from where the brain is. Mere psionic power, even that of an elder brain, does NOT transcend planar boundaries, and you can confirm this in the rulebook. Elder Brains don't even cover entire realms, let alone multi-realm space. Plothole two: if the power to disrupt elder brain communication DOES need to be channeled, then as soon as the Emperor turns you, you should by all means be screwed. Forcing you to ally with the Emperor against the honor guard is done to force the plot against the boundaries of lore, in the first case., which is confirmed later, based on the outcome of the Emperor changing sides (i.e., no outcome). @@CabinetofThorns
@@greyngreyer5 I know he’s not Bauldie Ron (lol). Does make me wonder if you trust Oolum, who is also an Illithid. Also you forget that by Act 3, the Elder Brain is now a Nether Brain, which plays by different rules and can clearly travel dimensions. The game doesn’t force you to side with the Emperor during the fight with the Honor Guard, it is encouraged though, because the Emperor will fight along with the Honor Guard, because they see you as a thrall/illithid. As for Orpheus’ power, I think it’s a bit of both. When Orpheus is asleep, it’s radial, but when he’s awake he can shut it off. At best I think the Emperor can give Orpheus’ power some direction, but he doesn’t have full control over it (otherwise he wouldn’t need to eat Orpheus’s brain I’m thinking). If I’m understanding you’re first plot hole, if both Orpheus and the Emperor are dead, then the power would be gone, and again, the Brain at this point is a Nether Brain, so it’s stronger than a regular Elder Brain. Plot Hole Two: Like I said, I don’t think the Emperor can really channel the power, at least not while Orpheus is alive, he can just give it some direction.
@@CabinetofThorns Like I said, I don’t think the Emperor can really channel the power, at least not while Orpheus is alive, he can just give it some direction. Okay. Now that we can start from something, I ask again: why does the brain find us when we kill the emperor, but not when he switches sides? And no, I never trusted Omeluum, personally. And with good reason, as it turns out. In my honor run I am looking to every advantage (if necessary), and I see that Omeluum kind of makes things worse for you, lorewise.
@@greyngreyer5 at the mid point at the beginning of Act 3? Or at this point in the video? If it’s the former, I think it’s because Orpheus cuts us off or we end up killing him in the fight as well (not gone that route, so I’m not sure). If it’s the latter, then it’s because the after the Emperor has eaten the brain of Orpheus, and we’ve killed the Emperor; then the power has been lost, due to there being no living host to control it. How does Omeluum make things worse for you in the honor run?
Lae'zel doesn't care about being smart at this point. as soon as you give the stones away, she knows all is lost & wanna just lash out the only way she knows how. if she couldn't serve her monarch, fuck you & everyone else. that's how she's always operated & until Orpheus kicks her out for whatever reasons, that's how she'd always operate.
yea its not a way to lose the game at all i actually let shadowheart kill her off at the start because laezel did nothing but annoy and start problems in party lol there for that scene never had the chance to take place for me
YES!!! It's so hard to keep La'zael in the party. The annoyance factor neutralizes the useful superior Gith Fighter party member. Powers wise, Gith are superior fighters to say, a Human, Elf, or Tiefling Fighter, but yeah, I have just let Shadowheart take her out and respect someone else into a "Fighter".
@@jonathancummings3807 you do know you can make all your party members into other combined class fighter right? I didn’t keep them with regular classes so none of the was “just a fighter”
@@jonathancummings3807 the game was too advanced to keep the party members with regular classes for me tbh I made all my party members into masters of wars so la’zael was something very minor compared to how I was playing the game. That game is way too advanced to just run on an adventure with only what they give you at the start. Just remember in that game you’re only limited to what you can think of.
Welcome to BG3 the game with no good endings... The "least dishonourable" ending that I have found is to become myself an illithid, make the scrifice, free orpheous, destroy the brain and save all my friends. But... I become a squid... The only other alternative is to let Gale die, without me going ceremorphosis, but Gale dies... Of course, letting Orpheous make the sacrifice keeps me and all my friends, but severely reduces the chances of the Githyanki ever be released from their despicable lich queen...
Nah Orpheus' sacrifice is the best. Neither you nor your friends need to die, Lae'zel can lead the rebellion and gain support from the Githzerai using Opheus' dragons and carrying his message, with the potential for you to help her in the future. Everybody else gets to live. Best choice from the options Larian gave us imo.
@@tharfagreinir yep, but the moment she becomes ilithid - she dies, and her soul is no more. Squidlach is just an evolved tadpole carrying her emotions and memory, but not the Karlach. So it's the worst ending for her.
@@saint4life09 Exactly. I don't know why everybody think Orpheus will topple Vlaakith just to embrace pacifism or something. Nah, he is a lot worse for other species of Faerun because contrary to hers ambitions of true Godhood, he will focus on expanding Githyanki territories, therefore attacking Faerun sooner or later.
This is the most annoying mechanics for me personally, devs give too much freedom to the player but confused between the choices and the stupid dialogue options players get more frustration rather than freedom, imo larian did so much work for so much little, sure all the voice acting is nice, all those motion captures and numbe of possible reaction outcomes are nice, but do we rly appreciate that? I myself did not, main story was nice, gameplay and builds were nice, but its huge, the number of times i got frustrated by romance dialogue options from my companions were annoying af, and the fact i almost were forced to go for gay relationship is crazy. At the act3 i almost went insane cuz the game is huge and most of the act 3 fights are tedious rather than fun, and this short reel is exactly why i was so tired, all the npcs wouldnt shut the f up and proceed, and the fuccing ps5 loading time is the most annoying part, stupit viconia fight is bugged af ,all are spamming dark smoke ffs, the amount of time i almost gone insane in this game is huge, why ppl not addressing these issues is wild af, all ppl do is praising it nonstop, im not a 100% guy, still i spent a week on this game to complete it, and im mentally tired and burnt out, good game but terribly huge amount of unnecessary things, like 30+ npc in the last battle made me not want to play the game again, ffs act3 needs some polish, but its april 2024 already, when this game gonna be complete game without stupid buggy fights, and dont get me started on trappy areas omg, why add so many obstacles in the way just add some nice fights? Fucc this dumb mechanic, who even designed this trappy areas, sure lts accurate lorewise and reality wise, but this game is in itself far from reality tbh
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"So easily persuaded, so quick to turn" - the guy who does a 180° heel turn and runs to the Netherbrain he's been fighting the whole game if you don't agree with him
THIS
he has no stones and he was torturer of mortheus, and he killed most of his royal guards, of course there is still need of illithid but who can guarantee that mortheus wont kill emperor and turns himself? so his joining absolute is just simple calculation of risks, I remind you that illithid is pure rational creature, they have no "soul"/"heart" to do irrational things
he has calculated this to be his biggest chance of survival, that's all. Sometimes you gotta do 180° turns to zig-zag and survive the shots taken at you
@@kiemugen9830 "simple calculation" ← this *is* the 180°. Because survival is what he cares for, not loyalty.
Really, doing the Wyrmway destroyed my last vestiges of trust in the Emperor.
"What are you going to do, remove my protection?" -Man whose protection was removed.
same energy of: You won't kill me.
Proceeds to kill them.
@@GentleBreeze-72I had the same kind of interaction with Vlaakith, after she asked me to kill my guardian (The emperor) I told her that if she was a god she surely could kill anyone, anywhere.
She proceeded to instantly kill me.
@@DOPSTARZzz i just hope it wasn't Honour mode 💀
@@DOPSTARZzzOne of the funniest moments of the game. But it makes me wonder, if she has the power to delete you at will, why does she impotently threaten you at your camp later if Lae'zel refuses her final pitch, or send her goons to kill you throughout the rest of the game? I don't know if the game ever explains that, maybe it's something about the creche that amplifies her ability to project power there?
@@plain_simple_garakshe kills you using a wish spell, which has text saying that there is a 1/3 chance that you can never cast wish again. So, you can’t go around casting that spell willy-nilly, but the Tav questioning her godhood pisses her off so much that she casts it in an act of hubris.
The Dungeon Master: “So… you gave him the stones, your ONLY leverage in the situation, and you suddenly want to go against his wishes?”
The players: “Well we for damn sure are NOT going to kill Orpheus, we’re gonna find another way and the Emperor can cry about it.”
The DM: “…Are you absolutely positive this is the route you want to go down? Bc you essentially just gave him the power to turn you all into Mind Flayers with zero consequences to himself.”
Players: “We just hit level 12, anything he throws our way we can handle.”
DM: “…Alright, bet. He immediately calls you all idiots, flies over to the prince, starts to eat his brain, and you feel the protection from The Absolute start to fade as unfathomable psychic might pushes you all to the ground. He finishes eating Orpheus, and promptly fucks off through a portal to 1v1 The Absolute. You suddenly find yourselves in the Absolute’s mind, the protection aura from Orpheus completely gone. It orders you all to transform, which you immediately and very graphically do as your skin and bones break apart to reveal new slimy flesh underneath. The last thing you all hear is the word “Thrall” ringing in your minds.
Thanks for playing y’all, bring new character sheets to the next session. And we’re going to be meeting in 2 weeks instead of 1 because I need to create a whole new story with new characters that acts as a sequel to this campaign.”
yeah, this video is very well labeled, those were stupid choices to end the game.
A campaign to tear down the Ascendant Emperor would be astounding... until it met your players.
@@arc_1704tbh another reason why it's stupid is that the party had ample time to attack the Emperor after he said he's gonna munch on the brain, instead they all just stand there as they like to do
@@Warland3r Like the players would actually stand a chance at that point. the guy ain't called Emperor for nothing, Orpheus was just like 3 feet away & the meal would only take seconds to finish. the players would get less than one turn of time to do anything by that point, & they'd be against a damn powerful being who's held his own against very seasoned githyanki warriors pretty all on his own for weeks, if not months.
@@FalconWindblader "that very powerful being" dies in turn 1 along with a dragon a 4 peasants, in DnD 1 turns is 6 seconds, so let's divide it by 2 since you don't have to kill the dragon and yeah, you can totally kill the Emperor before he kills Orpheus.
Also in one of the illithid endings you can end Emperor yourself in about a second, when you don't waste time talking. This crazy OP dude whatever you wanna call him gets stun blasted and goodbye.
And finally - they could just attack while he's having his super long "you're screwed" monologue before he even really does anything.
Considering how easy the emperor dies he probably gets merced by the 4 mindflayers he just created
Emperor even is a worse mindflayer than the Prince....
He’s in total control of them though
@@BigCountryProductionsMma
Why do you think that? The Netherbrain ordered the transformation, Emperor just removed his protection.
@@Zebwak play through again and don’t trust a word he says. You’ll see.
@@Zebwak call all his bullshit, anything that feels off call it out. He slips
Then the netherbrain gains a thrall who has mastered techniques such as "barrelmancy" and "serious sidestepping inside a globe".
The true extent of godhood
And Salamaster, don't forget Salamaster
baldurs gate is actuly a game about being catfished by a mindflayer
My first honor run was cut short by me back-talking to queen Vlaakith
I was not happy
yeah, she REALLY doesn't like a smartass. Now theres a lady that could use a dozen cats.
You mean you didn't learn that was a bad idea on your first couple of playthroughs?
I laughed my ass off
I lost my first Honor mode run in the same way. Had only played tactician once before, and I didn't know that specific dialog choice consequences. So after butchering Ch'r'ai W'wargaz and his goons like they were nothing, I had so much self-confidence that I disrespected Vlaakith to look good in Shadowheart's eyes, and lost an over 70 hours long run because of this😅
@@riffgroove yea… it just hasn’t been something I’ve experienced, and thus didn’t know. Nothing the game did wrong to end it. Purely my fault, but it was a bit annoying.
I also don’t get her whole thing from that interaction. I told her if she was a God, then why couldn’t she do it herself; at which point she got angry and just made everyone in the room die. So like… why can’t she do her dirty work, but she can just make us die by looking at us?
Idk… I’m a bit salty, and maybe a bit racist with the gith… just never really liked them.
This was exactly how I lost my solo honour mode save. A part of me died that day. I had no idea.
I lost mine due to a glitch
It’s painful bc you can do a similar run and deny him/join Orpheus
You mean you went into honour mode with untested options and dialogues? Dude...
You mean you remember what happened every action @@joaobranco2164
I left the orphic hammer at camp, so even though I didn't give him the stones, the same thing happened
The moment you hand the Emperor the Netherstones should have been the moment you could try to convince him to trust you to spare Orpheus. You just gave him the most important part of defeating the Absolute. He should have realized you have put an insane amount of trust in him and returned the favor for once.
Nope. The dude is just using us. Never cared about us at all. We were just a means to an end to be used so he could accomplish his goals.
It was an illithid so it made sense. People humanising it and dumping their trust into it rather than doing their own diligence deserve anything that comes.
Still, siding with the Emperor rather than with Orpheus is worse cuz the evil litch doesn’t get her comeuppance, plus the Emperor is useless in combat.
In the moment You discover how he kill his friend You should realize he isnt good. Just a selfish squid trying to save himself
And there's people out there doing all sorts of mental gymnastics trying to defend him.
"What about all these other evil people in your party? They can do bad things too!"
You mean the ones you can talk down and get to shift to the side of good the way you can't with the emperor?
"But if you blindly follow him, I mean help him, he won't betray you!"
No crap. Of course if you do what he wants he doesn't turn hostile. The point is that it's literally his way or the highway. Your companions you can talk down from most situations Not this guy. This guy there's one and only one way to play nice with him. He will NOT stand down and look for an alternative. And he's wrong too. Orpheus does work with you and doesn't kill you if you turn ilithid. Meaning he very well might have worked with the emperor against the greater threat. Maybe. We never get the chance because the emperor never trusts us. He's a really good actor, but you can see how easily he betrays us.
Orpheus will work with you as an ilithid, he'll work with karlach as an illithid, hell, he'll even turn into an illithid himself to stop the netherbrain. He might have been willing to work with the emperor...
The emperor don't care about the party. So long as they remain useful and do things his way, he's happy.
@@Creshosk
Just finished the game for the first time. I was sure, that giving him the stones was the end either way. There lots of lore here and there regarding illithid behavior. I'm really surprised how out of character was his way of dealing with netherbrain in the end. Like, I completely expected him to just assume control of the "absolute" there and you as a player had to stop him at the last moment. Instead he said something about "can't face githyanki with this power". I don't buy this at all.
In my playthrough, I think, I went with the most logical course of action. Raphael is willing to make contract with you to get the crown. Even if you don't accept it, that's the most crucial information in the game imo. At this point, we don't know how Orpheus will behave, but what we do know - if Orpheus was to betray you, Raphael would never bet his crown ambition on him, and instead would've tried the emperor approach. Therefore, it's logical, that the Orpheus route would most likely work, since again, Raphael, wants the crown "more than anything in the world", so providing us with the wrong plan would backfire his goals, that's why he is so eager to deliver the means for it too - hammer itself.
This way, I decided to free Orpheus, without taking Raphael's deal (just getting logical conclusions from it). The moment when emperor did 180, I knew, I had done the right choice. I though, in the alternative version he would do that later either way, but in that timeline he would have had the stones, so fighting him would have been much more risky.
So, I am really disappointed that Orpheus, with a power to resist netherbrain, still wasn't able to use netherstones without illithid help. That's really off.
And was disappointed that emperor doesn't betray you if you give him the stones. Just to not "upset" players who trusted him ig? I don't get why you ever would.. They could've easily just provided you with a fail save option to fight him off in the end where you decide the brains fate after he says something like "thanks, that's all I ever wanted" (it's still lame to say that out loud for him, but ob well, I'm not a plot writer, they can figure out it better)
@@elion4245
Why would the emperor side with the netherbrain? It wants to be free of its influence, it has been under its influence multiple times before, and still, just before the final confrontation it admits to having underestimated and being manipulated by the brain. If the options are a) kill the netherbrain, and b) give up on killing it, allow it to become stronger and dominate it, at least in the short term, then even if not killing the brain weren't the chaotic stupid thing to do, it is contrary to the emperor's only goal besides survival.
Even if we assume that the emperor could somehow keep the thing dominated literally forever, regardless of whether it's true or not, the emperor seems to believe the brain when it says it has manipulated the plot all along, from far before it was ever out of the control of the crown. And again, being free from the brains machinations is the one thing it wants.
Bro's been putting brain bugs in his cranium and when the consequences of his actions finally reach him he goes: "WOW THAT'S STUPID". You love to see it.
Imagine playing on Honour mode and clicking the wrong option at this point 💀
I use keyboard and mouse. I only ever use the number keys for dialogue options. Mouse is far too risky in proper RPGs. =)
That's essentially what happened to me in my first Honor playthrough. Though it was while fighting Ansur, after beating Raphel. I clicked the wrong button, cancelling the Globe of Invulnerability surrounding my entire party 1 second before Ansur 1-shot everyone... I did not make that mistake the 2nd time :P
@@Nexovus Ouch.
@@ArDeeMee Yeaaah, with about 70 hours in that playthrough alone lol. I just sat there in shock for about 5 minutes then started a new game hahaha
Well, that’s why they make you choose it twice.
I like how the emperor always claims he is "good" but he always show how Manipulative and sinister he really is. I only sided with him for the archivement of f him
He is "practical good" he will try to do good and HAS done good in the past, but he will not do so at the eventual cost of his own freedom or live. And if you do something that might put either of these two in danger he WILL stop you.
@@mermidion7552 no. He isnt good. You can Even find out how his "good actions" we're just schemes and he controled the mind of his allies in order to act at his will.
@@mermidion7552nah he’s not good, the game heavily hints that he is just manipulating you the whole time and has no real feelings. He even reveals this himself when you choose the rude rejection on his romance. He only cares about himself and views you as an asset he can use to his advantage.
That's what is called pragmatism. From his own perspective, he does what he thinks he has to do, and the criticallity of the situation means the use of extreme measures.
If I had to match it with the alignment system of DnD, I'd say he is purely neutral, like a machine would be, or even neutral evil. Or in other words, it's the attitude where the end justify the means, and that is generally considered quite an evil stance, regardeless of your goals.
Evil people can do good, if it's in their own interest. Good people can make bad choices and do pretty horrible things, when they are misguided.
@@theslay66 i'm not going to read all that crap.
Cause the emperor kill His Best friend, He mind controlled a counselor for his own benefit and lied that she was his lover. He sacrifices anyone who cannot benefit from it and refuses to assist them. Thats not "kind off" evil. Is pure evil
Why would you whole party stand there watching while hes snacking on orpheus brain. He even tells your party his plans before doing it. Minthara would of killed him in seconds🙈
And this is why I consider him a villain. It’s either his way or no way at all and that’s not what being a friend or ally is
lae zel wants you to sell your soul to the devil for her tribe, i think thats much more villany
Hey he did warn you.
Kind of silly that there isn't at least a fight between you and the emperor, he just zooms to Orpheus and chomps down.
This is what you get when you doubleback on the illithid protecting you.
"Uh oh! You've got...THE UGLY" - Astarion
So.... how about attacking the Mind Flayer before he kills Orpheus?
still lost tho cause balduran is only reason u still live
@@zeamjang7958
Orpheus extends his protection to you if the Emperor leaves in the other endings. As long as you kept Orpheus alive, you should be fine.
yeah he could have done it if he kept the stones and then said F* you to Balduran lol. But without them anything he would have done but siding with the emperor would have lead to demise, like it did.
@@GentleBreeze-72
He hadn't left yet. Instead of standing around, just attack him and take the stones back.
@@juanlaise1059 true didnt think of it
I feel like you should have an opportunity to fight him to stop him if he tries to kill Orpheus.
I’ve spent my run never trusting him and I still thought that turn was fast. Gotta enjoy the rails at times, and insane logic like stumbling into a conversation that ends other quests or kills companions. 10/10 game of the year
The final bits of the game are definitely the weaker parts of the game. Orpheus, the son of a god not being able to wield the neatherstones to stop the brain. No way to persuade the Emperor to give Orpheus a chance.
@@unionblue21 The second one does make sense. Orpheus hates the Emperor both as Ghaik and personally and had the power to instantly kill him by removing the protection. Releasing Orph is just such a massive, cataclysmic risk that Emps won’t do it. Orph has NO reason to keep him alive and EVERY reason to kill him off
@@unionblue21 Orpheus hails from a time where they've just broken off from the ghaik's leash. his hatred for ghaik is first hand & very VERY personal. there's just no convincing a person who has made their life mission specifically to destroy a very specific something, in just a moment's notice.
@@FalconWindbladerI don't know, he seemed pretty chill. Also I would prefer for us to be able to try and fail.
@@UTFx13007 Of course he seems chill, he's royalty after all. You can't go about leading your people to war & greatness if you go about throwing tantrums when things don't go your way, or hell, just people saying or doing things you don't like hearing or seeing. Chill-looking people can still have a lotta bottled up fury & hate & resentment in them, & i speak from personal experience.
“I yield to n-“
I hate how there’s not an option to have them both on your side
The entire game is an analogy of Larian and WoTC relationship in making BG3:
Wotc = The Emperor
Netherbrain = decision to embrace corporations or not
Player = Larian
Oprehus = Artistic integrity
I keep wondering what those journal updates even say. "I was just turned into a mind flayer"? You can't even read them normally.
The prism doesn't make a lot of sense. You kill the emp and you die even though prince alive. But then he kills the prince and somehow the emp still has free will. just makes no sense
Well I want to say by killing Orph he gains the extra resistance needed to stand against the Nether brain, right? Their whole thing is absorbing brains and memories and such.
He is the one using Orpheus' latent mental abilities and utilizing the prism at the same time, killing him there just screws that defense up since you don't know how to do it.
That's always how I interpreted it though.
Idk, people who started with BG3 is suppose it makes sense they distrust a filthy ghaik, but for long time bg players who know he is THE Balduran, founded the Gate and all his other feats, defaulting to trusting and respecting him is only natural...despite his catfishing
Holy fuck and to think I actually wanted to try these dialogue options today because I am stuck there with decision paralysis.
I died trying to go back to the first region after finishing moonrise tower. So disappointing.
I wonder what would happen if you choose to attack him during the dialogue.
Is it possible to hide one character and attack the imperator when dialog is active?
Hilarious 😂
darksydephil canon ending
Dumb ways to squid,
So many dumb ways to squid...
"Your only option is to trust me" yeah and that irks me a little bit
you have to kill orpheus, or have someone else become a mindlfayer, there's literally no other options and that sucks. Literally only complaint about this game
Except turning Karlach into a squid is the way to save her life from her engine. Any other ending only buys her time at best.
So turning Karlach into a player is arguably a good ending for her.
@@raikaria3090 But when you turn into a mind flayer you die, like straight up. You don't even have a soul anymore to like move on to a better place. It's literally not karlach anymore, it's a mindflayer who thinks it's karlach because her memories are the ones it started with when it was "born"
She has to eat brains to survive and with every one she eats she becomes less karlach and more of a hivemind
@@raikaria3090 Even though if she goes to avernus with Wyll/romanced Tav, she reveals she has found plans for a way to fix her engine in Avernus. Honestly becoming a flayer is a fate worse than death. If she goes to Avernus with the Blade of Avernus/Tav, that is her best ending by a country mile.
The "cleanest" solution is to have Gale blow up in act 3. Noone becomes a mindflayer. Yes, Gale dies, but at least his soul is still there. Also, you can get the emperor to reveal his thoughts to you, admitting he was just manipulating and gaslighting you the entire time, while switching to threats to control you.
considering the complexity of the fight with Netherbrain, Emperor alone will fail and Grand design will be completed.
Sarevoks armour is cool as
Definitely a stupid way to lose. You and the entire group just stand there while the Emperor gives exposition and then eats the brain. Could you have done nothing during that time like stick a sword in the Emperor's stomach?
Its the player's fault for not picking the attack option.
When I gave the emperor the stones, I was still human. What’s different in this scenario?
you were part human, part tadpole. What's different here is that the protection that stops the tadpole taking over is now removed.
Lae'zel wants to free Orpheus, and you agree after giving the Netherstones to the Emperor. I've never done this path before, but I've given the Emperor the Netherstones before and all has been well. I imagine it's Lae'zel/Oprheus tripping the character up here.
I like the emperor because it really shows who has shit taste.
uhm... I have never done anything like DnD so I got this ending :'D
Uchiha Madara approves
Not the smartest play by himbo Tav.
Plot hole though.
At the end when you choose to free Orpheus, why didn't the Emperor just turn you over to the Absolute?
Because while you hold the nether stones you have a higher chance of beating him, and if he stops focusing on Orpheus for one moment, then Orpheus can wake up and help in the attack (especially if you free him during the fight. Also, the Emperor doesn’t honestly want the Netherbrain to win. True he puts his own survival above all else, but he wasn’t lying about wanting to get rid of the Netherbrain.
It’s part of the reason why I generally work with him. Sure he’s out for himself more than anything. But all he really wanted (good or bad) was to run his city, not rule the galaxy (which is what the Gith want to do). Is he manipulative? Definitely. Has he done some bad things? Yep. But the player can also be a manipulative person (intimidation/persuasion), and do some horrendous things to… so turn about fair play lol.
Well the emperor is still illithid my dude. He's a sentient zombie, he is not Balduran.
As for your logic, idk... turning you over and withholding protection is the only move that makes sense because he literally switched sides and you are in the way of his safety. At that point, you're expendable.
There is 0 reason why, if he IS the reason you didn't turn and Orpheus' power needs to be channelled, he didn't just make you transform and follow the Absolute. He wants to live. If he is in control , more or less, of the parasites, and you are the obstacle to his survival, it makes 0 sense that he wouldn't make you transform and become enthralled.
That's assuming that Orpheus' power needs to be channelled, rather than him radiating a disruptive psionic energy. So you have two plot holes, depending on what is true.
Plothole one: the Emperor dying should not have transformed you into a mindflayer, or caused the Absolute to "find you" because Orpheus' protection is not something that needs to be actively channelled, not to mention that the Astral Plane is realms away from where the brain is. Mere psionic power, even that of an elder brain, does NOT transcend planar boundaries, and you can confirm this in the rulebook. Elder Brains don't even cover entire realms, let alone multi-realm space.
Plothole two: if the power to disrupt elder brain communication DOES need to be channeled, then as soon as the Emperor turns you, you should by all means be screwed.
Forcing you to ally with the Emperor against the honor guard is done to force the plot against the boundaries of lore, in the first case., which is confirmed later, based on the outcome of the Emperor changing sides (i.e., no outcome).
@@CabinetofThorns
@@greyngreyer5 I know he’s not Bauldie Ron (lol). Does make me wonder if you trust Oolum, who is also an Illithid.
Also you forget that by Act 3, the Elder Brain is now a Nether Brain, which plays by different rules and can clearly travel dimensions.
The game doesn’t force you to side with the Emperor during the fight with the Honor Guard, it is encouraged though, because the Emperor will fight along with the Honor Guard, because they see you as a thrall/illithid.
As for Orpheus’ power, I think it’s a bit of both. When Orpheus is asleep, it’s radial, but when he’s awake he can shut it off. At best I think the Emperor can give Orpheus’ power some direction, but he doesn’t have full control over it (otherwise he wouldn’t need to eat Orpheus’s brain I’m thinking).
If I’m understanding you’re first plot hole, if both Orpheus and the Emperor are dead, then the power would be gone, and again, the Brain at this point is a Nether Brain, so it’s stronger than a regular Elder Brain.
Plot Hole Two: Like I said, I don’t think the Emperor can really channel the power, at least not while Orpheus is alive, he can just give it some direction.
@@CabinetofThorns Like I said, I don’t think the Emperor can really channel the power, at least not while Orpheus is alive, he can just give it some direction.
Okay. Now that we can start from something, I ask again: why does the brain find us when we kill the emperor, but not when he switches sides?
And no, I never trusted Omeluum, personally. And with good reason, as it turns out. In my honor run I am looking to every advantage (if necessary), and I see that Omeluum kind of makes things worse for you, lorewise.
@@greyngreyer5 at the mid point at the beginning of Act 3? Or at this point in the video? If it’s the former, I think it’s because Orpheus cuts us off or we end up killing him in the fight as well (not gone that route, so I’m not sure). If it’s the latter, then it’s because the after the Emperor has eaten the brain of Orpheus, and we’ve killed the Emperor; then the power has been lost, due to there being no living host to control it.
How does Omeluum make things worse for you in the honor run?
I think lae'zel is the dumbest one here
"we just gave away our three aces, Lets go all in with a pair of two's" ~ Book of Poker by Lae'Zel
Lae'zel doesn't care about being smart at this point. as soon as you give the stones away, she knows all is lost & wanna just lash out the only way she knows how. if she couldn't serve her monarch, fuck you & everyone else. that's how she's always operated & until Orpheus kicks her out for whatever reasons, that's how she'd always operate.
yea its not a way to lose the game at all i actually let shadowheart kill her off at the start because laezel did nothing but annoy and start problems in party lol there for that scene never had the chance to take place for me
YES!!! It's so hard to keep La'zael in the party. The annoyance factor neutralizes the useful superior Gith Fighter party member. Powers wise, Gith are superior fighters to say, a Human, Elf, or Tiefling Fighter, but yeah, I have just let Shadowheart take her out and respect someone else into a "Fighter".
@@jonathancummings3807 you do know you can make all your party members into other combined class fighter right? I didn’t keep them with regular classes so none of the was “just a fighter”
@@jonathancummings3807 the game was too advanced to keep the party members with regular classes for me tbh I made all my party members into masters of wars so la’zael was something very minor compared to how I was playing the game. That game is way too advanced to just run on an adventure with only what they give you at the start. Just remember in that game you’re only limited to what you can think of.
Welcome to BG3 the game with no good endings...
The "least dishonourable" ending that I have found is to become myself an illithid, make the scrifice, free orpheous, destroy the brain and save all my friends. But... I become a squid... The only other alternative is to let Gale die, without me going ceremorphosis, but Gale dies... Of course, letting Orpheous make the sacrifice keeps me and all my friends, but severely reduces the chances of the Githyanki ever be released from their despicable lich queen...
Nah Orpheus' sacrifice is the best. Neither you nor your friends need to die, Lae'zel can lead the rebellion and gain support from the Githzerai using Opheus' dragons and carrying his message, with the potential for you to help her in the future. Everybody else gets to live.
Best choice from the options Larian gave us imo.
Karlach is only too happy to get turned. Everybody wins.
@@tharfagreinir yep, but the moment she becomes ilithid - she dies, and her soul is no more. Squidlach is just an evolved tadpole carrying her emotions and memory, but not the Karlach. So it's the worst ending for her.
Ah, no, after mass effect trilogy, endings of this game are the "happiest" thing ever
@@saint4life09 Exactly. I don't know why everybody think Orpheus will topple Vlaakith just to embrace pacifism or something. Nah, he is a lot worse for other species of Faerun because contrary to hers ambitions of true Godhood, he will focus on expanding Githyanki territories, therefore attacking Faerun sooner or later.
F8
Fun game shit story.
This is the most annoying mechanics for me personally, devs give too much freedom to the player but confused between the choices and the stupid dialogue options players get more frustration rather than freedom, imo larian did so much work for so much little, sure all the voice acting is nice, all those motion captures and numbe of possible reaction outcomes are nice, but do we rly appreciate that? I myself did not, main story was nice, gameplay and builds were nice, but its huge, the number of times i got frustrated by romance dialogue options from my companions were annoying af, and the fact i almost were forced to go for gay relationship is crazy. At the act3 i almost went insane cuz the game is huge and most of the act 3 fights are tedious rather than fun, and this short reel is exactly why i was so tired, all the npcs wouldnt shut the f up and proceed, and the fuccing ps5 loading time is the most annoying part, stupit viconia fight is bugged af ,all are spamming dark smoke ffs, the amount of time i almost gone insane in this game is huge, why ppl not addressing these issues is wild af, all ppl do is praising it nonstop, im not a 100% guy, still i spent a week on this game to complete it, and im mentally tired and burnt out, good game but terribly huge amount of unnecessary things, like 30+ npc in the last battle made me not want to play the game again, ffs act3 needs some polish, but its april 2024 already, when this game gonna be complete game without stupid buggy fights, and dont get me started on trappy areas omg, why add so many obstacles in the way just add some nice fights? Fucc this dumb mechanic, who even designed this trappy areas, sure lts accurate lorewise and reality wise, but this game is in itself far from reality tbh
This game looks so gay, characters have no charisma what so ever
Game seems like a piece of crap 😂
Another 💩gem from Trashrian Studios
It's crap of the year my friend )
Obvious bait is obvious.
@@Shiverwar he's just a troll
@@ANGRYWOLVERINE2060-ft2nc Hence what I said.
the moment your MALE character equips this bs - you lose the game. i hope your father is proud
yap yap
If he was ashamed, he is no father worth impressing
What