Andertons Big Secret
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- Not quite an Audio Audit, But close. Todays video started out with the question, "Who owns Victory amps?" But the more I uncovered the more it became a video about Andertons and Lee Anderton. Disclosure of ownership of brands is required by law. There shouldn't be a need to do a full scale investigation.
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Timestamps
0:00 Intro
1:12 Victory
2:02 Lee Anderton
4:10 Martin Kidd Interview
6:00 Straight Edge
6:50 Trademarks
7:58 Coincidences
11:36 Lees Response
13:12 The Issue ?
15:26 The Guys At Victory
17:00 A bad thing?
21:50 Lees Response 2
25:56 Conclusion
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Sources
Martin Kidd Interview @tone-talk
czcams.com/users/livewVWbZCIJ...
Lee Interview @tone-talk
czcams.com/users/liveL7aYqpWM...
www.gov.uk/government/publica... - Hudba
Lee Responded czcams.com/video/_lRPbEHZ9DE/video.html
Have you actually send an email to the Victory Amps asking them to disclose the PSCs?
Not really a secret - change your title it’s very much bait and manufactured drama. It’s totally ok to not declare everything in business - it can give you competitive advantage and i think the UK guitar industry needs all the support it can get… you go Lee and company!!!
@KDH everybody already knows Lee responded, and you know what You're an idiot 😂
@@nornicle2fully agree, he's so up his own ass about this he's created something no one else agrees with.
@@nornicle2 "It’s totally ok to not declare everything in business". No! I'm glad you're a fan and I wish you well but you don't get to redefine the Advertising Standards or ethics, generally.
Man... damn. You know its gonna be a rough day when KDH is sitting in your office with a question he probably already has the answer to. LMAO
Seriously, if this dude asked me what I did last week he could probably tell me better than I could remember.
I have to disagree with everyone else's comments and I will explain why. This video and its contents is 'MEh Meh and Meh again'. This video for no good reason whatsoever is having a dig at Lee of Andertons, simply to get views and likes for his 'CZcams' channel.
62k views = about $60 dollars? Don't spend it all at once....
Completely pointless video, all that is going on is, (you might have heard of this term?)' 'Marketing'. So what if Lee does not 'disclose', every single company he is involved in. If Mr Andertons was using a company as a cover, to import Columbian finest white powder. You would have a story but this is just Meh, and pointless.
In the Uk for years Jhs, (not Josh the other one based in the uk), had a magazine in music shops that advertised their own gear, and of course, gave it glowing reviews. No one gave two dumps about that, and no one should really give the same about this video and its contents.
@@james1658KAAY, Lee’s burner account. Stop being so butthurt. You’re obviously in the minority here. These are the type of videos that are liked and shared, thus growing the channel. Keep a close eye on KDH’s subscriber count over the next month and get back to me on whether he’s gained or lost followers.
@james1658 . Yup. I've been to companies House and I can't see a link between KDH and Buckfast? Hmmmmm. Suspicious, you decide.
@@james1658 I'm sorry, if this is how you do marketing in the UK then you are breaking the law. This is a story that evolved out of a question that MANY people in the industry and consumers of these products have asked MANY TIMES. That question was simply, "Who owns Victory?". The fact that Andertons came up was not a fabrication for views. It was part of the answer that was hidden underneath our noses.
I'm sure you are a fine person but I can't help but entirely disagree with your sentiment and your point of view.
Funnily enough I always thought that Victory was an in-house brand from Andertons, I think I got that idea because of body language and tone when they talked about it, it was like "well, this feels more like an add than usual"
Same here. I always kind of had the feeling, given the tone Lee, Rabea, Rob, and Pete would always take with the amps, and the fact that they were the signature artist for the amps, that Victory was an Andertons house brand. I don't like that Lee wont disclose fully his role in the company, and would play a semantics game to seemingly avoid it, but I do understand Lee not seeing himself as a large enough part of the company to note if he is in fact greatly divorced from the operations of the brand.
Yeah well said, and I agree it crossed my mind too, the way they always bigged it up!
Yep. A rabbit hole not worth jumping into. The time to scour the web for info on the subject would probably be better spent on enriching one's personal life, and the family and friends around them. In the grand scheme of life, it's absolutely meaningless. I wish KDH had music to share. I like music😁
@@patrickkish6662well good news we have someone covering it so we don’t have to do any of the leg work 😂 and I personally do find it interesting and entertaining to watch this stuff. Reminds me they are all trying to make a buck off of us 🤷🏽♂️
@@patrickkish6662 Hi Lee !
It's pretty wild seeing Lee, an owner of the company, sit by quietly as Mick talks about his potential bias.
Yeah and they are featured heavily on their Channel. I mean I love them I have 4! And two preamps. But Lee should have come clean a long time ago.
Who gives a f**k?
I did not know guitar-based investigative journalism was a thing, but I'm here for it.
Neither did lee... apparently
Im looooving it ahhah@@rainblaze.
When I saw the signature amplifiers I assumed Lee Anderton was involved with Victory.
Absolutely it’s not a long shot to arrive at that conclusion
Same
I mean, I guess it was dubious. But, as KDH points out, the law is very clear and communication on such matters has to be crystal clear.
Even if the assumption is an obvious one to make, you still have to disclose such things.
I absolutely didnt think that.
I just thought that Victory is a young team of guys that is heavily betting on the youtube game with abdertons because they are just friends
I can always trust KDH to give me drama on amps I can't dream to afford
That's why I buy used 😂 got a duchess v4 for $600 on reverb
That was my thought. There are certainly amps like that: Soldano, etc but Victory isn't one of them.
That’s because he’s a little slut for the drama
@@michaelgriffin5304 I feel like in the end
All restaurants will be Taco Bell
All guitars will be Ibanez
All amps will be Synergy
Victory amps are moderately priced new. Used you can find some great deals. I was on the fence between Victory and Friedman. In the end the Friedman did more for me and was the Keeper.
I think it's probably pretty safe to say that Andertons is involved in any brand that has a Rabea/Danish Pete/Chappers et al signature model.
I don't see that much drama here. If I was an investor at a company but had no formal role, I think I'd refer to the people who work at the company as 'the guys at [blah]'. If I owned Apple stock, I wouldn't consider myself part of the company. Being a director, on the other hand, means active involvement and a sense of 'us'. Lee might have been a little too quiet in videos I guess, but given he was honest when asked, I don't feel like he's trying to deceive. Maybe I'm biased, I've never met the fella but I've enjoyed his videos for ages. Kudos to you though KDH, I think this kind of revelation can only have positive effects for transparency.
Great video.
What’s weird is that Lee could have gone the exact opposite direction with his disclosures and garnered a lot of interest and respect. “I have access to some of the best ears and fingers in the UK, I’m an expert in guitar products, my team and I have played virtually every guitar amp ever made, yada yada” and made this a selling point, rather than a secret.
Keep up any videos and content you do
Totally Agree
Had he been honest from the start, there would be no problem. Now he has a ten year history of hiding his conflict of interest. His credibility is gone.
You think the other amp manufacturers they stock would have been cool with it?
It could be the other partners wanted his involvement secret on the vids to get a buzz going and he played ball. Maybe a hard one to admit to after ten years.
The high comedy of this is that CZcams served up an Amderton's advertisement in the middle of watching yiur video.
I’ve always thought of Victory being synonymous with Anderton’s, this video just confirms it. Either way, they’re killer amps and I do like Lee (his public persona at least).
think this blokes a whinger
Hes a bit of an oblivious bellend but i do feel hes a good person. Being forced to grow up fast and take over a family company can do that sometimes.
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420I’m sure we’ve all met a ceo much worse than Mr Lee. He’s a great guy who’s managed to accomplish the impossible task of taking over the family business and bringing it into the modern age
@@Thatdudeoverthere69420 *cough cough* Jeff Kiesel
I've always thought Lee or Rob had their hand in Victory amps in some way after watching a lot of their videos. I was curious about them when I last needed a new amp but went with something else.
I gotta say KDH, When I first started watching your videos a while back I was like "man this guy hates everything". (I am laughing while I write this). But as time has marched on, I realized that you are the hero we need. I love your content keep up the great work.
same!
I was typing my own comment when I noticed this one and you said what I was trying to say in a much better way. So I'll just say "True Dat" 😁
You know, leeches are pretty disgusting little creatures, but they can be useful time to time, heroes for some, parasites for others, so is KDH.
And if there is no new YT drama, just invent your own, right?
Just some toughts for the internet moral police... LOL
This is not moral issue...more breaching laws issue
@@roko650serious point me to the law that has been breached?
The Landlord one really surprised me. As far as I know, they never acknowledged being a part of that, while also liking them very vocally. That sounds very dubious to me unfortunately.
I’ll never forget I once bought a landlord pedal from andertons that turned out to be faulty and I just wanted to return it, not swap for a non faulty unit. The rep actually tried to convince me to swap it as “It works out better for us if we just exchange tone city stuff”.
Which gave me 2 impressions.
1) Respectfully, I don’t give a shit what “works out better for you”, give me my refund 😂 and
2) “Oh, so Landlord pedals are just rebranded tone city circuits”.
Not a slight on Landlord though, I’ve used a lock-in tuner for ages, great little unit.
@@BaBaBaBenny well, any shop would rather give an exchange than a refund.
Dodgy as F
@@BaBaBaBenny Tone City, Landlord, loads of those in-house brands are exactly the same pedals. Just rebranded for their respective retailers.
Same goes for most of the Aliexpress pedals and a lot of the other cheap mini-pedals on the market.
@@lueysixty-six7300 Naturally, I've just never had an employee directly tell me that to my face whilst I was trying to get a refund... O _ O
It’s called business, our PM has shares in Moderna through an offshore company he hasn’t declared it and he awarded a £150 billion deal over ten years to Moderna.
Lee has said at some point in those videos that he was involved with Victory amps. Nothing surprising here.
Outstanding quality of work. Documented investigation, no personal bias, no drama, no unnecessary shade thrown at Andertons. That's a 10/10 from me.
Honestly think it's his best video yet 11/10
This video is fucking pathetic.
Personally, I felt there was significant shade and drama - I don't have a dog in this fight mind you, but i definitely felt the tone was very provocative.
The way it came across to me was "I'm going to be snappy and condescending for nearly a half hour at Lee Anderton, even tho when I directly asked him he said 'yup I'm part owner'".
Hey KDH. The following brands are legally affiliated with either Lee or Andertons. Ive also included the gross profit margins on products when sold via Andertons.
Tone City Pedals - 70-80%
Landlord FX Pedals - 70-80%
Chapman Guitars - 35-45%
Burns Guitars - 30-40%
Tourtech - 50-90%
Stagg - 50-80%
Faith Guitars - 30-45%
Eastcoast Guitars - 45-55%
Victory Amps - 35-50%
There are probably more, but this is what can be remembered. Source- Ex Andertons employee.
Interesting list! Perhaps some involvement in Thorpy pedals as well?
I would have been surprised if Tone City wasn’t on the list or if someone listed it.
@@JamesMears76 he uses ThorpyFx to help design some Victory pedals (but only because Dan Coggins is a ThorpyFX employee, not because Adrian has any talent whatsoever). Otherwise he'd employ Coggins directly and not deal with the secretly most hated man in FX pedals.
@@ghalsor the signature Rabea and Danish Pete signature pedals, sold for £44.99 were purchased by Andertons for £8.31 a unit. If you bought both, you got a "free" power supply and daisy chain. The plug was £1.10, the daisy chain was £0.51 (normally retailing at £9.99 and £4.99 respectively). So you'd pay £89.98 for £18.23 worth of product. That applies to any and all Tone City mini-pedal deal.
@@JamesMears76 unfortunately not that I can remember. But it probably shows why Lee was incentivised to use Thorpy for Victory.
Great video. I really like the Andertons channel and their content and I'm surprised that this was not disclosed straight up, as I do recall some of the videos with disclaimers related to other brands. Based on this, I would expect them to at least put out a short video owning up for transparency's sake.
Show me the numbers proving that Lee makes more selling a Victory amp than other brands. They push Boss Katana amps more than any other, and have time and again said that they are their best selling amp line.
What he makes per amp sale isn't really the issue. As an owner, he has a special interest in protecting his investment. He stands to gain much more if Victory grows and takes a larger share of the market, and he has a lot more to lose if Victory fails. If anything, him making less selling Victory amps would give him an even bigger incentive to push them harder, since it would mean the company he has a stake in isn't turning a healthy profit.
KDH is not here to make friends, props mate, excellent work.
I have definitely seen Lee in an Andertons video from a few years back mention that he had an involvement in Victory, I remember it as he just mentioned it in passing and my ears pricked up thinking ''well you've never mentioned that before''. Not really a problem but something to bear in mind when they are pushing Victory products.
Really? Can you share the videos? I don't think I've heard him say anything about any involvement with the brand. But I haven't watched every video. But KDH couldn't find anything either.
I mean, other than being friends or helping in development or whatever.
Yeah he had involvement, he would give advice and be asked his opinion on products. He compared speaker cabinets etc. "Involvement" and "part ownership" are quite different though.
@@thebigb3ard exactly. Rabea has involvement (and discloses it). Lee has something else.
@@mrcoatsworth429 Now you're asking... it was just a passing remark in one video, as I recall he was kind of 'off set', hand held camera 'behind the scenes' sort of stuff, pointing out a Victory prototype in the corner of the room, I think a 'work in progress' for a potential signature for Rob or Rabea. What he said wasn't a 'we're working with them' kinda thing, it was definitely something inferring that Andertons had a stake in Victory. As I said, that's why my ears pricked up and since then it's always been in the back of my mind when they feature Victory Amps. It was only a five second bit in a video maybe 3-4 years ago. Good luck finding it!
@@mrbrick5907 Thanks! Well, I'm not about to look for it myself haha Now we know what his involvement is.
But what do you mean by "now you're asking..." At what other time should I have been asking?
These videos are excellent btw, you have a real knack for this kind of stuff, great work.
Congratulations on your Sherlock-Holmes-Mode investigative capabilities. I watched the whole thing although i'll probably never buy from Andertons because of taxes but i like their videos. I think it's smart to own as many brands as possible at least in part because that's what grocery discounters do and it seems to be very profitable. You could say he learned from the best.
One thing I really like about you KDH, is even when you have dirt on somebody, you don't belittle them for it. You are always straightforward with the facts, and forward about the ethics on why you are doing it, without outright attacking anybody's character. It really allows me to trust your work more as it doesn't seem like a way to mindlessly stroke your ego about being right, but because you actually care about getting to the bottom of these issues.
Keeping business owners responsible and helping to protect consumers. KDH doesn’t need insults and nonsense for that!
What’s the “dirt” here?
@@FlyingCircusAct dirt is a pretty vague word when used like this. In this case I’m just meaning potential drama. But KDH doesn’t make it any worse than it already is by adding any more drama, he respectfully brings to light consumer issues in an incredibly professional way. This is genuine journalism and I was just being a bit hyperbolic for brevity.
@@WeyounSix I appreciate your honesty, extremely rare in todays world. I’m still left wondering where the issue lies, is there pending litigation with this? Something “shady” going on? From what I’ve witnessed, Lee’s fair across the board with amp reviews and the like. Not sue what I’m missing.
@@FlyingCircusActThe issue is that as an influencer you need to be transparent about where your interest lies. We all know he has a vested interest in Andertons and the channel is there to sell products from his shop. No issues there. What we didn’t know is that he is part owner of Victory a brand that he pushes continuously over other amp manufacturers. People watch that and assume it’s unbiased as he sells all of them anyway. Whet he’s not saying is that he also has a vested interest in that brand and it’s market share, therefore it’s not an unbiased opinion but one made as the owner of that company who stands to make money from the sale of Victory no matter where you buy them from.
Lee is a slippery one. It makes watching any new gear review mighty tough to look at without doubting eyes.
Andertons should really pass the reviews of Lee owned or partially owned items to someone else.
Transparency is a valued trait these days
I did hear a few years ago while working for PMT that Victory was partially owned by Anderton’s/Chapman and that was why we couldn’t stock them. But honestly I get it because now they’re a great brand where as before they were very close to collapse on a number of occasions. I also just assumed it was mentioned by them that this was the case but I guess I just filled the gaps based on what I knew from work
Pretty much thought everyone knew that Andertons had an interest. Also thought it was pretty much accepted that their channel was about selling stuff. So why the surprise.
Because a witch hunt brings clicks! What a useless c__t
This video was again a complete treat! I love these videos and appreciate the work put into it.
I have nothing against Lee, seems like a good guy and I think he's a good businessman that at least tries to do mostly the right thing. At least compared to MANY others.
I actually had already thought Victory was an Anderton’s house brand but I can’t recall why.
The whole UK gear manufacturing and retail industry is a very small circle
EXACTLY! This kind of weird "i gotcha" shit is not really warranted here. It's so unbelievably small and informal. Hence why Lee refers to them as the guys at Victory. The reason why he talks about Victory that way is because he FEELS that way. Instead of bleating "I OWN THIS BRAND GUYS" (or something far more reasonable) before playing something on one, he shows respect to the guys who DO run Victory's day-to-day shit and apply their awesome knowledge. I assume, at least partially, that the reason why Lee refuses to see himself as equal with them is because of that HUMAN dynamic. KDH, you're too rigid in how you're seeing this. Brand presentation, rigid assumptions about many things without self-reflecting on your own demands. How do you think the guys at Victory who are responsible for the hard work to create the product itself (the focus should be on who makes it in terms of HANDS ON THE PRODUCT) feel about this guy blasting that he is the owner? You need to think more critically KDH. There is nuance to these things. There's a lot more with the whole brand identity thing and I don't want to type up a whole storm about it.
I have to agree.
Still should be open about it
Same here. No surprise for me......
@@JR_Taylor Think more, meaning critically attack your own position and/or try to build up Lee's so you can see more and find the correct conclusion by rocking back and forth between the practices to arrive at a more rounded understanding by settling between the two extremes. I don't think my position is extreme, there are valid reasons to reduce transparency on certain things because as buyers, we don't think in terms that are conducive to logical conclusions. Everyone suffers from this, that's what Lee was trying to say about the pedals being blindfolded. There's nothing secret or shady about this, it's how the consumer mind works
Well done. The Martin Kidd interview at the 4:22 mark actually tells a whole bunch when the real story is known. Martin cleverly pivots when he seems to realize that he might accidentally reveal the well-kept ownership secret.
Except that wouldn’t look good if every other video of his was about Victory Amps.
I work for a sheet metal company round the corner from straight edge and we laser cut the badges for the victory amps
KDH, you have a very bright future. Smart, young, and driven. We are watching you grow up right in front of us and you're doing great. Never lose sight of your goals. Remain humble and never compromise your own integrity.
Just as an FYI. GAP isn’t Andertons. It’s a distribution company owned and run by the owners of Guitarguitar, Andertons and PMT (GAP is an acronym of their companies) so that they could have more buying power on certain products. They realised they could make more margin on cheaper products instead of going through companies like Stagg. Companies like Eastcoast and TourTech exist only for this purpose. You’ll notice only these three companies sell these brands.
Great investigating though.
Since Victory amps started to frequently appear in Anderton's videos I just naturally assumed that it was a house brand. Nevertheless I wouldn't have guessed the actual complexety behind it all and KDH once again delivers in clearing things up!
Me too, I've never heard of them until I kept seeing them on Andertons videos
First time I've watched this channel. Kudos for the time and hard work put into making this video.
At the end of the day though I'm left shrugging my shoulders as saying "so what?"
As I mentioned, first video I've watched on the channel but I'll watch more to get a feel for what it's all about.
As someone who, years ago, quit my job as a daily newspaper writer over a matter concerning integrity, honesty, and what I was and was not allowed to write about something, I appreciate your investigative integrity and tenacity in attempting to get to the bottom of things and then not being afraid to say it regardless of what people will and will not conclude.
I've really nothing against Andertons as a business, however, unlike a lot of people, I've never been much of a fan of their videos; they've always come across as a bit cliquey to me, so it was interesting to find, as a result of your investigative efforts here, that there is apparently something more substantial in terms of ownership and interests to that cliquey feeling than just my personal perception.
And with regards to ASA standards breaches, as well as having been a news writer in the past, I also worked in advertising for a number of years. So I can tell them from a position of some personal experience that they really do need to get on that and correct things not merely as a matter of integrity, but also to avoid some potential fines and other punitive measures, because the ASA does actually have some teeth when it comes to things like that.
Retired newspaper journalist here in the U.S. I agree with your analysis as well.
I don't think any standards are being broken - Lee is an investor in Victory as a private individual, not the store, and the videos are the product of the store (which he happens to own as a separate entity).
Is there a conflict? Yes, but it is hardly a scandalous one - see my comment, this is a niche industry dealing in pretty small money values, so raising capital is very hard and this sort of arrangement is very common.
Let me put it this way - if Lee's involvement in Victory, as one of 9 owners and the primary dealer, is £100k, but his involvement in Andertons where his is the principal is, say, £5million, then I can see why he doesn't really see it as a conflict, and why he always says "those guys at Victory". He doesn't see his minor-to-him financial investment as being a big deal. He also doesn't see much return on that compared to what he sees from, say, Chapman (whose value is only £250k, by the way - did I mention that this is a NICHE industry?).
@@MrLivebynight If you have to hide your ownership of companies you review, then it's obviously a hopelessly dishonest position. The dude proved he has no personal integrity by sticking to keeping his personal ownership role for 10 years under wraps as he tried to give his investment a boost with his "unbiased" rave reviews. That is about as obvious an example as you can have, of a completely biased individual who knows how little credibility glowing reviews of a company from one of it's owners are afforded.
So in other words, he understands his own bias very well and how that appears to consumers, hence decided to hide it, and he can't pretend it was a moment of weakness, since he continued to cover it up as he ran a stealth promotion campaign for them disguised as unbiased reviewer comments, publicly for a decade. It wasn't a decision to lie once, but to hide the truth as ongoing policy, from the intended audience (amp shoppers), to influence their buying behavior towards the only behavior that was going to boost his portfolio of business holdings; for a decade.
He hid the truth as he was later forced to admit and made a pathetic excuse for, to make people believe he wasn't involved, because he wanted his promotions to be mistaken for unbiased reviews from a brand fan with no personal stake in whether people responded by purchasing or not. Does honesty mean nothing to you, that even legal standards aren't low enough; you have to excuse the lies of someone who can't even manage to muster up the personal integrity to stay on the right side of advertising laws?
@@Gregorypeckory Perfect summation of the situation. Clearly Anderton lied by omission in every Video with a Victory amp in it. He must have considered that before the cameras rolled, every time. Chose not to be honest. I think it's pretty serious stuff. The other amp makers featured in those videos should seriously consider their relationship with andertons. The videos have to be treated as biased.
Kinda unrelated to the video, but your story gave me major flashbacks. I used to have a little blog reviewing things from time to time and when I was at uni I got a gig as a content writer for a review site. I wasn’t studying journalism or anything and it didn’t pay much, but given my only other income was stocking freezers at a supermarket twice a week and repairing gameboys to sell on eBay it was very appreciated!
They were also pretty patient with me as I was very green - I had to learn real basics of professional reviews like you can’t say it’s bad, you have to say it’s stronger in other areas or find a positive on the back of a downside, the top 5 shootouts, etc that get more traction and mean you can say x is great for y, a great for b, etc and avoid saying directly ‘this is pants’.
That was all kind of okay, I learnt to play the game - you’re selling ad space and advertisers don’t want any beef, they might even be suppliers of products you’ll be reviewing in a different article, plus if you say everything’s crap people stop giving you stuff, and not a lot of places can afford to buy all their review products and turn a profit. It is what it is - I think most people understand; it’s kinda like the 5 star rule right? If it’s a professional product review or a coffee shop eating on google, the scale doesn’t really go from 0-5, it goes from 4.0-5.0.
But then I ran into one company I just couldn’t review. Every time I reviewed a product it’d get bounced back to me and they were not accepting anything other than glowing reviews. I read reviews other had read for the site and it was all the same and this just went on and on. I’m actually keeping the product field and publication under wraps because this is going back 15 years and I don’t know who owns it now or what the deal is, but yeah it kept bugging me. I’d try and not review the products, and keep getting assigned them. I asked over and over if this is just some kind of paid product placement or a big advertiser or anything I could understand or had encountered before and all I got was weasel words along the lines of it’s not about the brand, it’s about what you wrote… and it was all too fishy. I was at u I do didn’t care too much, but eventually looked into it, and it turned out it was just really invidious. Our publication was owned by this investment capital whatever firm that of course also owned this other company but when I started asking other writers about that it came out that it was actually all about pumping this company for an IPO and all manner of people were heavily invested personally in it. I figured my option at that point was invest myself and drink the cool aid or quit, so I quit. It kinda jaded me to how a lot of stuff works tbh
So many time your video keep me on the edge of my seat watching!! Your an accomplished story teller! Usually I start watching them just wanting to space out for bit and end up with dry eyes because I forget to blink.
i'm pretty sure we already knew Andertons owned Victory? Like i was already sure of it for some reason? They must have mentioned it when the amps were first coming out, also at the start they basically only made amps for Rob Chapman, so i guess i had this narrative in my mind that Martin Kidd started making amps for Rob and then Lee bought the company to develop the brand, or something like that, anyway they are undeniably great amps at pretty great prices, so in the end, who cares?
Post rationalisation memory syndrome
Your like the Pet Detective for Guitars, Amps and Skull Doggery - Good Job - love the details you dug up !
I think it's kind of weird that Lee didn't just say he owns a major/minor stake in Victory for disclosure. He's usually pretty good about disclosing that. I actually had assumed Victory was related to Andertons in some way for years until the Tone Talk episode... which isn't great in light of this video. I mean, Rabea, Rob, and Pete all ended up with signature amps and I think those were all of the big guitar hosts.
This has absolutely become my favorite guitar channel. It's so refreshing to hear calm and articulate news about the industry. It's like a high-gain channel for grownups. No prattle at 100 mph, editing out the pauses and saying "bruh" every 20 seconds. Sweet Jebus, please keep doing what you're doing \m/
Great documentary, always believed Rob and Lee were involved in Victory. Always think you should be up front and let your audience or potential customers know you are involved in an item you are reviewing.
I think the question would be, What companies does Lee Anderton have interest and investment in?
Nothing wrong with it, but would be nice to see the list
I'd watch a Lee Anderton masterclass on marketing.
It would be a short masterclass.
He just got on CZcams and ran with it .
@@willrobertsmith also, credit where it is due, it was Rob Chapman who got him on CZcams and built him an audience.
@@richardharrold9736 ehh, I'd argue the "without busting the bank" series and Rabea Massaad's playing in those is what put them on the map in terms of youtube views.
@@mikel5163Chapman too, to be fair.
Never thought it to be a secret with all the videos of them helping with development and promotions, I assumed they had financial involvement.
This is what I thought too. Had never heard of victory until they were on Andertons, so I assumed they were linked through ownership.
Plus, even if they weren’t linked in ownership: they sell the product. Every product they talk about is one they’re selling. In the case of someone whom you already know is trying to sell you something, whether or not they own part of the parent company is…not really informative.
@@NewnodrogbobAs KDH said in the video, this isn't the case if you live outside the UK - an Andertons video could be seen as fair to each amp they compare, and any bias towards Victory in that video could sell you an amp from a local dealer (when you didn't know it was the owner telling you it beats a Vox/Marshall/Fender/whatever)
@@matthewwatt2295 I am in the US. This is a bullshit argument. KDH says in the video that the retailer’s cut of the profit will be “close to” the same for all products. Define “close to.” Unless Lee owns the Lion’s share of Victory and is making huge profits from them, the differences between the deals from each manufacturer will be as significant an introducer of bias as the dividends from his stock. Since I don’t know the ins and outs of those deals, I don’t just blindly follow what the Anderton’s guys say. Not that they generally endorse one product over another anyway.
It’s also worth noting that these aren’t print articles. They’re recording the gear. The viewer/listener is given plenty of data from which to draw their own conclusion. This isn’t just some pitch man telling you that their soap is the best.
This is a big fat nothingburger. Turns out when you get your clicks by being a muckraker, you have to constantly be on the lookout for new muck to rake.
@@Newnodrogbob Honestly, I see where you're coming from, those are some good points. I think this video has done its 'job' by getting Lee to publicise the fact he partially owns Victory amps so people know that when he talks about them. I'm not a huge fan of the 'drama' angle from the title/thumbnail either.
Really well done and kept my interest the whole segment! Keep up the great work!
Can't wait to hear Lee Anderton play a pentatonic scale over this vid...
I hope someday Lee can own all the companies. Maybe after Lee owns all the companies Dave Grohl can do all the music and the two can control the entire global music scene.
Dave Grohl makes Lee Anderton look like an amateur. He really is utterly ubiquitous.
Bahahahahahaaa!! That’s hilarious mate. Lol😂❤
The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best The Best
hahahaha
@@richardharrold9736 Tell me about it I'm so sick of his face I can't listen to Foo Fighters anymore.
Watching KDH become the go-to name in down-to-earth guitar reporting has been a real treat! Keep it up mate!
Excellent video once again my dude! congrats. Someone's gotta do it.
Great video! You really do your homework and don't just go for drama. You are becoming Guitarzilla (which is meant as a compliment, in case you are not a fan of him 😁). Keep at it.
I will watch Lee's response in a bit, but I imagine he appreciates what you do as well even if you call him out like this.
Fantastic work, man! Thanks for shedding some light on this. Lack of transparency where transparency is due is always an issue and needs called out.
It's called a "lie of omission". It's clearly purposeful to prevent perceived bias. Thanks P.I KDH! 😁
But is it illegal? 🤔
@@Ebbandflow805 It certainly can be. It depends on the motive, consequences,and the "damage" it can and could cause (and how many lawyers your company has) It's always illegal morally. At least in my definition of morality.
GREAT VIDEO
Shady dealings, of course knowing what a huge audience he has keeping this secret was strait forward a business decision! It's obvious but it doesn't surprise me in the least. I do watch their channel and it's very entertaining but this absolutely does / will have an effect when using the videos to decide between different brands of anything guitar from now on!
Thanks for this video. Now when I watch Andertons which is a marketing channel after all (disguises itself as not being one), at least now I will know what companies they have a bias too.
Was casually watching some older videos and noticed a bias towards East guitars which I would not have really known is their own house brand. There was one quick mention “oh these are guitars us and some other stores together do”, wouldn’t of even thought to put it together.
The victory amps displayed in every shot is a lot funnier now too😊
Andertons is pretty obviously a marketing channel. Anyone who watches it for five minutes will know that they're attempting to flog you something. Are the amps any good? Are they priced appropriately? Do they have good aftersales support? Those are the things that really matter, not what size stake, if any, Lee Anderson has in the company. The guy's making money off everything he flogs on his channel.
Andertons is a music store. Of course they are marketing products that they sell. Are you a moron ?
Hmm....who would bring out a Rob Chapman tribute amp??? Should have been able to answer that one quite some years ago 😀
I guess I always just assumed Victory was an Andertons thing based on how often their amps appeared in Andertons videos and how the aesthetics looked in line with Andertons aesthetics.
I've been in business for decades and it's very common for an investor in a business to want to be a "silent investor".
There is nothing dishonest or underhanded in that practice (generally).
Being a silent investor means that brands are not forced to be associated with each other, so if a consumer hates a brand or a brand owner/investor, it doesn't need to affect a different brand just because the two brands might share one or more investors.
Also, good business strategy allows for exit scenarios, like selling the entire brand later, closing down a brand, or taking it public on the stock exchange etc.
Investors being "silent" allows better (ie; more successful) business practices in all of these cases, and an investor being publicly known puts limitations on all of these cases.
Regarding Andertons and this brand there seems to be nothing that I would call immoral or even underhanded. Lee made it clear the Victory brand was from a "good friend" and Andertons has publicly promoted the brand in an obvious fashion. Any reasonable consumer woukd know that Andertons promotes this brand and has some form of "association" leading them to make profits from selling or even pushing this brand.
Andertons, like any retailer, exists for ONE PURPOSE; to sell product.
In my opinion Lee Anderton has the right to be a visible investor or SILENT investor in any brand he chooses, and as a reasonable, informed consumer, I would expect Andertons have some sort of "deal" with any brand they promote.
Very good work but I can't get overly excited about this one. I think Lee's point that he's not a director/managing partner isn't unreasonable. Owning a stake probably should've been declared yes. I'm just not sure I see it as a big gotcha.
I've not always agreed with everything you've done on this channel. But, this is genuinely important information that the public should know. I always thought that Andertons fondness for Victory and how often their amps are featured on the channel was simply out of a genuine fondness for the product and wanting to support a fellow British company. It seems that actually, there was an undisclosed commercial interest behind it. People seem to forget that Andertons are an equipment selling business FIRST, not a CZcams channel. Great job bringing this to light!
Who cares?
@@creamwobbly I think it matters because it's a very simple question that someone has gone out of their way to avoid/hide. It's disingenuous, which I find interesting. You're correct about American vs UK disclosure laws, but I don't think that changes the matter of transparency, whether it's legally required or not. Just my two cents.
Very fair comments and information from KDH here. Chapper's probably watched this and thought 'Whew, thats a relief, I got off lightly... glad he didn't go after me this time around'. 😬
First off, great video. I will say that I have been watching Andertons for 10+ years, since the beginning when it was all on Rob’s channel and it was one of the only entertaining guitar content on YT. However, I am not saying you are wrong but I watch a lot of Andertons videos and I do vaguely recall them mentioning that Landlord was a Andertons/Lee brand. Maybe a quick mention in a random pedal shootout that wouldn’t have been on your main radar but yeah, when you brought of the landlord pedals, I was just like yeah in the back of my mind that it was their take/brand on affordable tone city style pedals (which I have also wondered about their involvement in that brand). Anyway yes, I have thought it was odd that Rob, Bea, Pete all have sig amps, but I have always thought well it’s a British company (but so is Marshall, but let’s agree they don’t need to have a Pete amp themselves) but never thought Andertons had real envolvement because I have always trusted them and respect their opinions, partly because they are so open about their involvement(s) and even going to lengths of not including Chapman’ sin certain shootouts for bias’s. Anyway, I think you have great points and this video has sadly taken a small notch out of my Andertons trust. It truly is a sad day, but not any sadness directed at you.
Why? I have never seen a video in which they said Victory was better than any other amp brand. They just feature it. Lee has a small ownership in the company, he doesn’t own it outright. If you like they amp, you can keep liking it. If you don’t, you can continue not liking it.
@@firemarshal2629 Not that victory is better than any other amp brand but Lee has on countless of occasion's plays through the V40 or V140 and he has said from time to time because its one of his favorites for that sort of sound. Which is a fine opinion to have and I still think they sound mental but the bias would have been good to know because it could have influenced him to use it over a Friedman little sister or something slightly similar. It would almost be like if they did a bunch of amp shootouts and he only used chapman guitars for those because it was one of his favorite strat/tele styles and never mentioned that he had interest in the company. Obviously, that scenario would be obvious because "Chapman". Anyway, I am not up in arms about it or really mad, it's just more of a "Huh, ok then".
I always had some kind of suspicion about it! That was a great investigative job man!!🤘
Wow, amazing research and video as always man. These conflicts of interest are highly problematic. Superb effort in bringing this to light 🤘
The Landlord doesn't have to visit the effects pedals in order to collect the dividends. Given the prominence of Victory in the videos it did feel very interwoven. Wouldn't be surprised if Lee was more involved with the other brands like Tone City
KDH is in bed with Andertons 🤫 this is an attempt to stir up some fever and attention for Anderton's end of summer closeout sale so they have clear shelves for the Christmas shipment 😂
Yes beeing open and honest about these things is the only and best thing you can and should do. I have to admit that I'm a little bit shocked about how many brands and companies Mr. Anderton owns, I mean most big resellers have their own brands and trademarks but I wasn't expecting this... It's not a bad thing in general, on one hand they could offer good quality for less money and on the other hand they know exactly what their customers want and creat exactly what they want, this isn't a bad thing at all but, as you mentioned, it should not kept a secret because this simply sheds a bad light on them. I think people would still buy a Victory amp if they know it's an Anderton brand if they like it so there's no realy reson to not telling the truth about it ...
Some time ago I‘ve tried to look up the exact same thing, but stopped at the official trade mark database - I couldn’t draw the link from there. Congratulations, well done!
Yeah, Lee's lack of disclosure is weird
b/c no one would have cared. He seems like a righteous dude and he's handled this WAY better than a lot of YT celebs so I'm happy to still be able to rock with Anderton's but keep it above board moving forward, yeah?
Well, I think he should still publicly disclose this, on their own channel in video form.
@@mrcoatsworth429 agreed
@@flashpointnova I have no problem with Lee, I really enjoy the videos and especially his dynamic with all the other team members. It is simply weird that he seems to actively avoid talking about his ownership of the brand. Just seems fishy, even if it may not be intentional.
I’m pretty sure I’ve heard Lee mention he was involved with Victory before this video…
@@louissanderson719 Involved as in being friends and somehow working together with them sure. Owning them? Absolutely not. And that's important, in my opinion, for the reasons mentioned in the video.
Only Sherlock Holmes problem seems to be you in trying to figure out this none sense. Good on Lee for being a businessman.
US viewer here that Really enjoys your videos. Thorough and evenhanded. Not in a million years would I have predicted I'd find the intrigue of the UK music gear scene so compelling! Well done, KDH
I’d always assumed Anderton’s owned at least a part of it, a bit like it has done (and disclosed) with Eastcoast.
Same. I didn't realise it was a secret. It seemed obvious.
I personally grew up before CZcams, so I couldn't care less who owns what or what people say on videos. I listen to how they sound and respond. I've bought and.loved a few products from videos saying they weren't good, but I liked what I heard 🤷🏻♂️
Everyone knew.
KDH just trying to divert from the Peavey videos he never retracted.
@@scott6588why would he want to divert from Peavy video?
@@scott6588literally a video of Andertons holding it from people right in front of you… regardless of wether (you thought) you knew or not, they held that info quite clearly lol, you’re missing the point
@@jackflynn-oakley1937 nope.... literally a video subtracting the times lee clearly insinuates bias towards victory amps.
Everybody knew.
Just like the Peavey videos, it's part of the information, minus the parts that debunk the narrative.
What's odd to me is that Lee generally does disclose ownership (like you showed). It makes you wonder why he doesn't with Victory.
I think it's likely exactly what Lee said, that with the other brands he is an active member and on the board or equivalent, with Victory he is, assumably, just an investor.
@@alittlebitgoneNo, being a partner is exactly (well, not exactly exactly, but you know what I mean) the same as being on the board of a company.
@@alittlebitgoneBaloney. 10 years of pushing VA w/o once mentioning a financial interest. Even an accidental mentioning … no, he intentionally misled people by never saying anything while acting like the reviews were unbiased.
@@carpediem4413 I don't think it's as cynical as everyone's making out. Knowing Lee, I would have thought it's less shrewd money grabbing, and more likely just not wanting to take credit for the work of others, though I do understand that in this cancel culture we live in people will prefer to jump on the bandwagon and demand his head on a plate. Are Victory amps rubbish? Anyone I know who has a Victory product or has owned one loves them. So maybe he is biased, or maybe his bias is based on believing in a well made product that he invested in once. Nobody really knows how much money Lee Anderton does or doesn't receive for his investment anyway. I don't think there's a story here, personally. If you're basing your £2k amp purchase on CZcams reviews without going and trying the equipment out, Anderson's or not, then you might have bigger problems.
@@jasonleaman. if it's just Lee not wanting to take credit, then he could publicly state that he was an initial investor in the company but now no longer has any business ties. Easy enough and wouldn't harm any reputations. But he won't say that, will he?
For some reason I already knew Victory was Anderton. Not sure what made it obvious anymore, but it was clear to me for some time.
You and Benn Jordan are the closest we have to CZcams investigative music journalists, and even thought I know you'll rebuke that title, it's a very meaningful one. Truth on this website is very hard to come by now.
I'm still too new to guitar to even think about an amp bigger than my practice amp or an amp sim, let alone learn about them, but let me tell you i was 100% invested in this bit of sleuthing. Good work.
Hi KDH, first of all kudos for such an indepth video! It was like watching a thriller :D I really appreciate how you dig deep and also keep it factual instead of getting all emotional about it, very balanced coverage!
Second, breaking advertisement rules is not really something I personally care about, I'm well aware Lee is a salesperson, making videos to sell the items the videos are about.
Interesting video and I appreciate the work you have put in to make it. Many peoples' traditional idea of manufacturing - company owned by one or a few named individuals, whose name may appear on products, designing and making things in their own dedicated factory that bears the company name on the gate - is usually pretty far from the truth nowadays. It applies to virtually all products, so musical equipment is unlikely to be different. Brands will be owned by shell companies, holding companies, private equity, banks, etc, etc. The owners of the brand will typically design and specify a product and have it built by a specialist manufacturer (who is probably building for many other brands, including their rivals). Some don't even do that. They simply select from the manufacturer's catalogue of standard offerings and have their name/colour scheme put on it.
Once you start trying to dig into who owns what, the rabbit hole just becomes deeper and more labyrinthine. It's not uncommon for brands that are ostensibly rivals to turn out to have common ownership. It makes sense from a business point of view - whether consumers choose Brand X or Brand Y, the same organisation gets their money.
All of this would matter if they were selling sub-par merchandise. If the product is good at a good price, there is no problem.
Except advertising standards means he should disclose the interest
I just want to express my appreciation for your efforts. Great journalism, very well researched and elegantly presented.
Very kind of thee, I would also donate if I had income
I see a lot of people (or at least a few) commenting that they always assumed he was part of Victory. I can safely say that thought never crossed my mind. Not once. I've always found the Andertons YT-channel to be good fun as well as trustworthy. I've always understood that at the end of the day, running a youtube channel had to make sense for them financially, so of course there had to be some element of sales in it. I have always felt that that part was fairly obvious. I remember seeing the Burns video and being pleased that he disclosed his involvement. Same with the Chapman stuff. Builds trust, makes you able to account for any bias.
Honestly, I'm pretty disappointed to see that for whatever reason the Victory involvement was kept a secret. And I'd argue intentionally so, given the clip where both Mick Taylor and Rob Chapman disclose their relationship with the company. There's no way he didn't make an active choice to not say anything at that point.
It's a shame. I really like their channel. I don't think I'll stop watching their stuff - overall I still feel they are pretty fun and honest people, but I can't say I won't be wondering what they aren't telling me the next time I tune in to one of their videos.
They don't make sales to support the CZcams channel, they do the CZcams channel to sell you stuff!
I would replace “honest” with “creative at not saying anything negative about any product ever”. It actually makes even more fun to watch, looking out for exactly those phrases
Mick Taylor has his fingers in a lot of pies too, which is fair enough. However I stopped watching the Pedal Show when I realised they were just constantly plugging products and tbh I don’t regard either of them as experts anyway, just enthusiasts with strong opinions, giving the impression they are experts. JHS, Vertex and Wampler channels is where I’d go for expertise.
@@glenh2752I met D & M in Minnesota once and thought they were arrogant aholes. Pretty disappointing that many of these guys have a great “friendly” personality on camera and you find out they are not at all what they portray. Sounds like LA is a bit of a shrewd operator and not the open/honest guy he has built his YT following on.
@@S-T-E-V-Egosh! No way!!! Jeeeez……..
The problem isn’t that Andertons owns part of Victory, it is content channels desperate for talking points that will make a mountain out of it. All his products have different profit margins from Chapman to fender. Honestly who’s gives a crap they have never bashed anything they sell ever
1) for the sake of integrity and transparency he should've disclosed ownership b) also it's the law. If he is set to make more money out of certain products demonstrated on Andertons TV, we need to know.
Wow, I’m impressed! Thank you for not giving up on this and doing all the legwork. This has been on more minds than just yours. I do hope Lee follows up with this and admits, at least the smallest of wrongdoing and purposely hiding this. I really hope he does. Thanks again and thanks for not making it any shorter. When it comes to something like this, we want at all.
I tend to take videos from Andertons (and most guitar retailers) with a grain of salt because they are all trying to sell gear, so they're never going to be critical of what they're showing, even when they should be. It's almost-but not quite-like a conflict of interest... but this is a whole new version of that because they're hiding their interest in selling a certain brand and that is definitely a conflict
I don't know why people don't understand this. Anderton's is a music store. What kind of videos is a music store going to make? It seems like this is going over people's heads. Very strange.
These investigation videos are the reason why I love the channel. You are never satisfied with half the job. You always go fully into every facet! Thanks again for an excellent - and needed - search for the truth!
His pursuit can be a bit dubious. What point is he trying to make? Or is there no point at all other than to create the mystery, where there has not been "a lie" to compromise a product lines' quality. He is trying to make a name for himself like many "CZcams influencers". The U.S. had Woodward & Bernstein. Where KDH is from........well, has KDH.
@@2010njdevilAre you stupid? The point he makes is blatantly obvious.
This has been fascinating! And I am coming from the perspective that I am currently in the market for an amp (in the US) and was considering the Victory Kraken. I still am, this gave me no pause, but instead gave me a little more confidence and clarity now that I know the true origins of the brand. I would only wish, from Lee, that he do a little better and be consistent with the transparency behind his companies. Like, DUDE! you built multiple guitar companies and have one of the fastest growing amp brands in the world...take some pride in that! It only feels bad if you are being shady.
Lee is not being shady, but by creating a perceived "problem", KDH is just creating noise to make himself a "youtube influencer" brand. I also am in the U.S. How does KDH's "special 60 Minutes Dan Rather special" affect your purchase. I look for what sounds good when buying amp and then try to validate the brand's quality and reputation around quality control. KDH brings nothing to the table other than innuendo. He creates nothing.....and obviously for you, the perception of doubt. What would ownership of Victory influence you if you have already established your interest and if you think they sound good.?
@@2010njdevilConstantly featuring an amp brand on your channel whilst pretending to be an objective admirer isn’t shady? You obviously don’t understand or care about ethics.
@@markseymour8365 I am an attorney with my position being a Director of Procurement for a publicly traded Fortune 500 company. Anderton's did not hide anything and is in alignment with merchant compliance. I know what you do not know.......which really is not difficult. Additionally, they are a reseller and channel partner of other competing brands so it can be considered as unfair should Andertons mention it. Doing so would be deemed as unfair for promoting the Victory brand. We also do not know what is contained in the legal agreements between Andertons and all manufacturers as mentioning the connection could be considered as unfair promotional practice. Just mentioning it in a demo could prove illicit promotion in violation of a noncompete clause. This would be to protect against unfair advertising definied as illicit by the agreement. Many merchant agreements have such a clause. Your definition of ethics is subjective to your opinion which equals the probability that you lack the intelligence to even spell I.Q. Get it? Got it? Good.
Great video. I respect Lee for answering your questions, and though this information is interesting and may be alarming to some, I'm still gonna watch Anderton's channel for the fun of it. Hopefully they learn from this and change moving forward.
I love it when KDH drops one of these videos. He's exposed a lot of stuff about the guitar world and anyone with a hint of curiosity could watch these and walk away more informed.
he does it in such an elegant way.
Yeah but none of it really matters and imo comes off as douchey
he took a LOT of flak from chapman's fans, and has come around to it so full circle that he continue his reporting on the issue, and even met rob and namm
@@7DavesToDieIt absolutely matters. We should know that Lee, who owns a giant channel and music store, partially owns Victory. If Anderson's didn't stock them, no. But they do and he does videos on them regularly.
He’s an utter moron. Something wrong with him.
Dahm....KDH just blew his chance at being on Andertons CZcams channel!😢
This is a great video ,one thing I will say is the Kraken is one of my favourite amps and Martin Kidd is a very nice guy,I already assumed ANDERTONS had shares in Victory mainly because of the endorsed artists that were using Chapman and Victory together it’s usually a dead give away like say EVH amps and Jackson guitars,anyhow great video
Totally speculative but Andertons always gave me that shady salesman vibe, even knowing nothing about it. It's just a hunch I get from their reps
100%
Slimy could be a better word.
@@youmustmonthebiff considering the business was started by Lee's ex policeman grandfather on the proceeds of seized and resold pornography... yeah, it's always been sleazy.
Deffo
That's kind of the nature of sales/advertising though. All of them are on the shade end of the spectrum :D
Brilliant video, good work. Lee was just once FB earlier announcing an amp giveaway with a big thanks to the guys at Victory.
Very great stuff, the level of research and the rhythm of the video are stellar.
Of course no one would have any issue with that if it was all done in full transparency (as it should regarding influence issues and false advertisement), but even the slightest pretend is hurtful to the customer and to the brand.
It’s “The guys” at Victory because Lee himself isn’t a designer or a creative director. He is just an investor . It’s like watching your best artist friend make great art. Period
If you're paying/investing for the means to make the products(then making money selling to other retailers, or the other companies you're involved with)and then making more money by making videos demoing against competitors' products, and not being completely clear about your interests, isn't that questionable at the very least? Whether you like the amp or not, what they said about it, whether it influenced or not....would you be happy with that process?
I tell you to purchase A and not B because A is so much better. But some how I forget to tell you I own part of A. No big deal, right?
When they did a Danish Pete amp it is pretty obvious who's behind it. We'va all known for years. I never knew about the regulations breach though. CLASSIC KDH! Keep it up!!
To be fair, Pete has earned a signature amp just as much as any of the rest. He's done his share of gigging in big venues with big name artists, and is a bloody good musician.
@@richardharrold9736 and he's sucked Lee Andertons dick an awful lot.
Fellow Irishman and CZcamsr here. Been watching your videos for a while now and have to say, dude…For me, this has been the most enjoyable one yet. Superb research, professional standpoint and presentation (not mean spirited in any way, shape or form), and killer points made throughout the duration. Keep doing what you’re doing! ❤🤘
I think there's a distinction between investor and employee (as lee said). I invest in amazon but I'm not involved in the company in any other capacity, and I profit from the company just as lee would with victory