The tonewood debate is back...
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2024
- The tone wood debate concerning the effect wood has on an electric guitar is back in the news after Paul Reed Smith weighed in on the topic
• Guitar Legend Paul Ree...
Not the most compelling arguments I've seen...
Here's Jim lill's video • Tested: Where Does The...
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The tone is stored in the balls.
Vege ta balls?
*toan
Finally! Someone has figured it all out
So say we all.
Hi Jeans!
That bullshit speech made me lose a lot of respect for Paul.
It made me lose respect for him as a guitarist. He was speaking from the position of a salesman (in the video) and trying to make us believe he was speaking as a guitarist.
I’ve been meaning to order an SE now I might skip it.
@robmcd SEs are made by Cort, I think, so they're probably still good guitars. 👍
This. I no longer want a PRS.
@@katabatica me either
I build my guitars out of the nicest walnut and exotic tops I can get. I dont think it matters, they just look nicer using nicer wood.
Nice!
It needs to be appealing to your taste and then play the way want it producing the sounds that you are looking for by selecting the hardware and pickups.
Hell yeah.
I’ve built guitar bodies from ply, oak worktops, coffee tables etc and have never had a comment about the shitty sound, in fact it’s the opposite and my friends are always surprised that the sound is the same as ”tonewood” lol
Exactly!!!!! An honest guitar builder - and there’s nothing to be ashamed of about that either! Everyone buys with their eyes first and then try and kid themselves into believing it was the tone that sold it to them (there’s no shame in that - you need to enjoy the guitar in every respect)
I just know drunk Paul would be an absolute nightmare to hang out with.
Like the meme of the dude at the baseball game absolutely yelling into the girl's ear next to him, except it's Hellraiser grabbing you while screaming and never letting go. "WOULD YOU USE RUBBER STRINGS!?!?!" as blood and pus drips down his face.
He's a pro hanger-outta, I don't like your tone, it's quite frettening.
Lmao
I don't like his tone.
It's because he is covered in vaseline
This is the humor I'm looking for. Both of you! 😆 🤣 😂
Underrated comment
lol 😂
Well according to him it's probably because of his wood
He exhibits absolutely no nuance in articulating his argument. He sounds like a lobbyist for the tobacco industry.
Well described!!!
But prs guitars are Smooth, fulfilling, and are for the rich. they also come in menthol green.
cmon - Give em a try, pal. i think youll really enjoy it, and you only need one.
Lack of nuance is not the problem. His complete catastrophic failure in basic logical argumentation is! Almost every single sentence that came out of his mouth on that stage contained a basic logical fallacy. If he ever tries to defend himself in court, he will end up on death row for tailgating, despite being completely innocent.
There's a huge difference between being a good guitar builder/designer with a few really good ideas that catch on - and being a good spokesperson and communicator with the public for a company. Very few people are good at both. Paul Reed Smith is awful at the latter.
@@henrygvidonas9573yeah, you’re right. He has no evidence to support the argument that wood impacts tone in a meaningful way in an electric instrument. And he’s unapologetically bad at communicating anything.
Exactly.
Plus:
1. He is telling this to people who already agree with him.
2. I'm not sure where this speech happened, but I don't think a single person there was a guitar builder.
3. A lot of the people who speak against the concept of tone wood are guitar builders. Tim Sway, for example.
Mad respect for linking the Jim Lill video. His video series completely upends 90% of industry claims.
the crazy thing about PRS is he has ALL of the resources to prove he's right. make three identical guitars. Only change the wood the guitar is made out of. have them all connected to the same amp on the same settings. and then play the guitars in front of a group at a clinic just like this. That would be a stronger argument than anything he can do yelling at a microphone for hours.
Won't change much , people will interpret the sound subjectively. The only way to be objective is to measure the sound waves and compare them, it's been done and proven. Just not by the manufacturers who know they have been selling BS for decades.
It would also have to be a blind test where the audience doesn't see the guitars and aren't told what they are made of. We do alot of hearing and make alot of judgement based on what we see.
@@Pitolek1993 If they wanted to be scientific they could plug the instrument cable directly into a spectrum analyzer.
@@keithangstadt4950 you can just paint them all black since you are testing the wood and not the paint. Also you can connect the instrument cable to a spectrum analyzer.
That's honestly such a no brainer, it would be brilliant marketing for PRS to demonstrate empirically that the idea they're trying to sell you on is actually true. The fact that they've never tried that speaks volumes
Paul has been getting high off his own supply for way too long.
The other half of the prs factory.
It's all the laqeur and paint thinners in the air
worst guitars ever
Pool Weed Sniff
I got nailed a few years ago for calling out his "magic wooden xylophone" "evidence"
Why am I watching a keynote from a dentist conference?
Underrated comment.
There is a video from Fender showing how they made a Stratocaster out of cardboard. Somebody from the staff said "sounds like a strat".
There are a lot of YT videos out there from guys making (electric) guitars out of almost anything: leaves, candy, pencils....
@@schmoemi3386 To be fair, the actual load-bearing material in these cases is epoxy resin, but yeah, still not wood.
In my experience, tone comes from a combination of pots, pickups and strings. Wood pretty much only matters when it comes to weight, sturdiness and looks.
@@marcingardias9254 To be fair, at least when you cast pencils in resin, there is still some wood, but I doubt that pencils are made of "fine tonewood" 😅
Cuz fender sells guitars for the average lower income guitarist and doesn’t have to justify dentist prices with the wood species
Tones is stored in the tip of the string, which is why you should never trim them
PRS is building strawman argument, addressing points that haven't been even made
Strat saddles on a vintage martin...might actually sound better if that means it can be intonated better
@@jasondorsey7110 For all we know it might sound better and be intonation better 🤷🏻♂️
They're so deep in the strawman that they might as well make a guitar made of straw.
@@MikeDullSharpe Tonestraw
@@jasondorsey7110Acoustic guitars should have adjustable saddles by now. Right? It would make setup so much easier. As it stands now, you're shaping the bone bridge and you have to do it carefully, if you oversand it, it's over.
Multi millionaire guitar company owner argues about tone wood, sounds like his bottom line is getting compromised.
100%
Paul could make a guitar out of old scaffold boards & sell it for thousands...ironically using exotic hardwoods is more likely a deficit on his bottom line
Exactly. He's a business man, so obviously he's going to argue till he's blue in the face.
Sounds like his bottom line is threatened when the likes of Glenn Fricker provide audio evidence to prove that tonewood is a scam.
@@rickyturner2742he makes less money on tonewoods tho, his brain is just broken and I am a prs fanboi
I remember playing in a pub full of pissed up people at midnight, everyone was shouting for us to play Wonder Wall when a bloke at the bar broke away from his pint and pointed out that it would be inappropriate to play any oasis songs as I was using a telecaster with an alder body, thus creating an imperceptible tonal variation from the original track. Luckily, I had my balsa guitar with Vaseline strings to fall back on.
But was your nut rubber?
LMAO I needed that post PRS BS
Which is actually the tragedy, as the vaseline has, in the past, caused people to lose their footing and fall back on, the floor.
After hearing such powerful arguments, I think I don't deserve to have a PRS guitar...
agreed, I can't build guitars so I won't be able to appreciate them.
@@Chrome262 Yes, as consumers, we should kick them out of the market lol
Paul has a super sophisticated device that collects and preserves his farts so he can sniff them any time he's feeling like he's not the center of attention.
Well, he should sell it to Donald vanshitz Hispantz... Donnie smells truly putrid!
LMAO!
I'd still rather own a PRS over a Gibson. The man knows how to build a great guitar
@@theshapeexistsThat doesn’t stops him being a snob.
@@benedekgabor. Indeed
Paul is a salesman, and we all know salesmen are full of shit.
generally used car salesmen are, yes. salesmen often have to be honest to a point, so they don't ruin the reputation of their business.
Yeah he is a salesman at heart. He is highly educated on guitars yet routinely says ridiculous stuff. I find it amusing personally but kinda see why many find it off-putting.
It's TONESHIT and it's essential for the music, that's why he's full of it
YES, 👍 agree
I wouldn't necessarily say, "Salesmen are full of shit."
I'd say that what he's trying to say in that video isn't supported by any evidence whatsoever.
For my electric, the only reason I care about the wood is the aesthetic value.
...and weight.
I was never gonna buy a PRS, but Paul being a turd made me go from being indifferent to PRS as a company to actively disliking PRS as a company
Then you might not want to buy from any name brand manufacturer
@@beefnacos6258 What other name brand manufacturer is actively spewing vile language and insulting customers? I can think of maybe Keisel, but that's it
Jim Lil is a living legend. Dude was able to make GUITAR PLAYERS re-think their beliefs. Crazyyy
but only the ones who have half a brain, it seems
And he’s also just a great musician
But that is IF said guitarist is willing to accept that the load of crap the manufacturers have been spewing for decades is just marketing BS and are willing to adjust their views.
Just imagine Jim Lill making videos about the power of prayer. "So I bought a cross necklace and a nice suit to wear to church, and I began speaking in tongues, but I'm just a Christian, what do I know? So I started thinking outside the box and came up with.... [cut to next scene] This... is an amputee. The Bible says 'ask and ye shall receive', so I paid an amputee $50.00 to devoutly pray to God to regrow his limbs and..."
well... SOME guitar players. most of them are still stuck in the les paul and strat for life categories and have to play authentic ofc
That was some proper cloud yelling by Paul.
don't forget the first parker fly was also made with composite materials
As were the early Steinbergers
yeah and everyone is rocking those...
Actually, Parkers have become collectibles instruments and the archtop Ken makes are absolutely amazing and responsive. And if anything, the method used to develop them should put Paul to shame, as the rationale was to create an instrument that would need the least amount of maintenance and repairs as possible. If I could go back I would trade my PRS for a Parker fly
@@theuserthatishere man, tell us youve never played or heard of parker fly or steinbergers without telling us
@@JeanMarceaux I never knew about it, I remember the parker fly was all the outrage for being mostly composite materials and not wood 👍
The guy is pretty arrogant.
By the way, electric violins and cellos usually don't even have a solid body, just a central fingerboard barely wider than the neck and a light frame 😂😂🎻
i’m anti tone wood but tbh most electric violins sound like shit
Do people even play those for the sound? I thought they mostly existed to be violin-shaped things you can practice quietly on.
There was a comedian that once said (I forget his name, sorry) "I don't know how to fly a helicopter, but if I see one stuck in a tree I'm allowed to say that that dude fucked up"
Basically you don't need to know how to make a guitar to listen to how it sounds haha
That's Steve Hofstetter
What I’m witnessing is the Same BS I’ve been experiencing for 29 years in the industry. It’s totally embarrassing - im embarrassed to be in an industry so dominated by marketing hype and total BS. In this very specific case he just sounds senile and confused - like someone’s grandad who you meet at a social gathering and you kindly nod, smile and move on as quickly as possible
so you think well off fellas that can drop $10k for f#@ks sake are getting bamboozled? these are typically really sharp dudes that research before they throw down $10k for a guitar they themselves know they don't need
@@theuserthatishere a sprinkle of cynicism ? 🤔 😊
@@RichardsGuitarshop no cynicism, i don't know any naive fools that make really good money, enough to afford $10k for a sweet guitar. i'm not saying you need to spend that or that i would, prs does nothing for me, lost me at body shape alone
@@theuserthatishere oh? So you were suggesting that because someone can afford a 10k guitar they know better? 😆. It’s actually the total opposite. The average person whose got 10k to spend on a PRS are quite simply doing it for the status of owning one. PRS are like Rolex - the public believe they are “the best” and frankly the average dentist who can afford the best buys one because he knows his friends will be impressed. It’s a totally fair reason to buy a guitar if your priority is to impress your friends. PRS was my first “top end” brand I sold and I maybe sold them for 12 months? Totally and utterly uninspiring tone - for me personally. I also found the switching through the rotation totally ridiculous as of course there’s no way of knowing what pickup config you’re on at a glance. They look pretty - lovely looking guitars but in my opinion (and I don’t think many would argue) the tone of the tops is a total red herring. People but a pre for the beautiful grain - and he should focus his attention on the natural beauty of the wood rather than try and sell the concept of the unique tone - trust me - if the tops were plain but the tone improved by 10% - you think their sales would go up or down?
@@theuserthatishere You mean the same guys that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on luxury cars and sports cars that are in the shop more than on the road?
Sounds like a politician.
Salesman. Same thing actually.
He just needs to blame migrant woods to complete the transformation.
The tonewood debate isn't "back" because it will never be completely gone with guitar builders willing to say anything to defend their business, and with customers willing to believe in fairy dust.
It isn't fairy dust, it's clearly audible to those of us with hearing.
@@richardharrold9736 get scammed and love it
@@richardharrold9736 Exactly. There are guitarists out there who can't even tell their guitar is out of tune or that they are playing out of tune in general. Pushing notes sharp, bending under/over pitch, etc. I imagine they are the same ones who say wood doesn't make a difference. I have one guitar that is all mahogany and the other is alder/maple. The latter is distinctly brighter than the former, and that is when playing through the same exact amp and settings. I have to roll the tone knob down halfway to tame the brighter sound of the alder/maple guitar.
@@nckhed bending notes isn't amusical, to be fair. Go and listen to the classic blues players who do just that. The difference in tones between, say, a mahogany/maple Les Paul, a pure mahogany Les Paul/SG or a Korina Flying V... it's all really audible. Same pickups and pots in all. And yes, maple is brighter than mahogany!
The maybe biggest impact is a change of picks. The try a metal one or a wooden one. That is a massive change. The wood is only a tiny fraction in comparison to that.
Jim lill did a great job
Dude lives rent free inside the mind of every lawyer who spent 5k on a guitat because of "wood"
@@lucasgoncalvesdefaria7121 I think the kind of guy that drops 5k on a prs is too busy driving his merc & banging his sugarbaby too care
Jim Lill is a Gem!
Love your work, keep it up thanks so much bro!
I've counted at least 4 logical fallacies, Straw manning, argument from incredulity, and argument from authority, false equivalence
...Imagine if they would just go "The higher price on our more expensive lines of guitars is due to them featuring pro level components that will make your instrument sound better - and the carefully selected woods is hand crafted by experts to offer you an instrument that both looks and feels better and more importantly, most probably will inspire you to play better.". I wouldn't oppose that at all.
He has to say it matters so he can justify someone spending $10,000 dollars on a guitar!
Tbf most of his most popular guitars are import guitars with veneers and random wood, the private stock stuff probably loses money
facts
@@sunnohh loses money? how does using a cnc to cut wood, then sell 500 bucks n parts for 5-30k losing money?
My only objection to this statement is Fender, Gibson, Jackson, etc also charge that amount or more so it’s not just PRS.
@@robertlucas9867 Yeah, anybody who sells something is aware of their consumers being not that smart, especially musicians
All respect to Paul as a luthier. Ive always felt tone wood is more to accent nuances in sound rather than shape it completely and I try to sell it as such. Mostly the wood such as fancy tops or bodies Ive sold to clients as upcharges is for visual purpose. Personally I think shape of the electric guitar has more to do with how the guitar sounds than the wood itself and of course parts/pickups. The debate is stupid and tears the community apart. I see people calling each other wild names over this debate its ridiculous. If you believe fully in tonewood for sound and pay for it good on you , if you dont and skirt around it? Also good for you! this is guitar its totally subjective from the ground up people need to stop looking at it as what's right and wrong.... there is no answer to that as long as you enjoy your guitar.
If wood affected electricity at all, there would be more uses for it than just shifting the sound of electric guitars . It would be amazing if we could use wood to shield things from magnetic fields or enhance said fields but don't see tree flesh used that way anywhere else.
craftsmanship > tonewood. It's as simple as that.
Agree to a certain point ....A CnC can do the same sheeeet .... and i havent seen a worker shiting wood or creating quilts patterns on live trees... you can buy a $500 guitar and sent ir to a luthier to make it feel lile a custom WITHOUT paying 6k 8k 10k 15k for a Prs Private stock
@WendigoSotomonte A CNC cannot finish a guitar body or neck in the same level of skill as a trained pro. It's capable of the routing all the electronic cavaties and rough shaping/contouring but a ton of the sanding and actual prepping the body for a painting/finishing process is very much done by people and when it's not it's pretty easy to tell.
This is why mass production instruments have a greater volume of defects than the higher end equivalents, at least from my experience. Then there's Gibson who sells guitars with paint cracking and chipping from the factory so who knows.
@@madmod You haven't seen the robot arms at the MusicMan plant doing the painting/finishing...
@@WendigoSotomonte You can also ask the luthier to fully build your guitar to much higher specs than a mid-range quality PRS Private Stock or Gibson Custom Shop... for the quarter if not the 6th of the price...
@@WendigoSotomonte CNC only makes 15% of the job at best. In average, it only makes 8% if the job.
The luxury watch manufacturers had a similar problem when cheap quartz watches were found to be better at keeping time than mechanical watches. Rolex and others responded by focusing on the beauty of their products and their proud history. Paul Reel Smith would be well advised to do likewise.
You nailed it!
mmm. True.
Reminds me of a short (and irrelevant to the plot) part in the 1931 Fritz Lang movie "M." A thief is seen taking 5 or more pocket watches from his pockets, and then he makes a phone call or just asks the phone operator what time it is so he can set the time right.
In fairness PRS guitars are still some of the best guitars out there, despite there being zero evidence for tone wood.
@@Arnold-vc7es I have no experience with PRS, to be honest so I don't know. But, as popular as it is, it has to be an inspiring instrument to play.
Logical and well worded take on "the forever issue." Thank you.
The irony of him being like "If you were to go to a violin maker would you take away his ability to choose the best tone wood?" because if you're mass producing electric guitars and selecting these for only the finest tone woods, aren't you reducing the supply for violin makers who likely have much much less buying power? I mean effectively no, it's all fine, it's just ironic.
Violins are ACOUSTIC instruments. Tonewood has everything to do with tone on an Acoustic Orchestral instrument. Electric Solidbody guitars with bolt-on neck designs are slabs of wood bolted together that depend on their electronics to create sound. Tonewood makes a minimal difference on a bolt-on-neck solidbody electric guitar's tone, but it does make a measurable difference. However, 99.9% of the human race would not be able to tell that difference in a blind comparison. AKA: Most of the early Led Zep hits were cut with Jimmy playing his vintage telecaster. While touring Jimmy decided liked the look (strapping it down around his knees) and feel of a Les Paul better, so everybody assumed he recorded with his Les Paul.
@@timothybailey2119 I don't think with a human player you'd be able to measure the difference between tone woods on a solid body guitar(which is to say woods conventionally used to build those). Now maybe if you used something very light and soft like balsa such that it's absorbing a significant amount of energy from the string, then it starts to come through. Old cheap teiscos and such are like this due to their floppy construction. But not all old teiscos, just the very thin cheap ones.
Paul is literally saying “If evolution is real, how come bread doesn’t talk?”
I beg to differ:
czcams.com/video/lYi5vf1vSb8/video.htmlsi=Yt3dRVvhQ7ixcteQ&t=89
Figuratively
@@ChainsawChristmasYou beat me to it.
Lol literal boomer, “hoo hoo ha ha, the internet thinks they know how make guitars better than us durrr”
why does people have such a hard time using "literally" properly?
I work in the restaurant industry. Paul sounds like the shitty chef who sends out shitty food and then gets mad when people send back his shitty food scoffs and says... 'Ugh. What do they know. They haven't cooked for this many years...' They don't have to know how to cook in order to know how to taste food. It's the same for this. You don't need to be a master luthier to know how a guitar functions. Paul is just mad that people are calling him out on his BS that he's been cooking all these years.
His body language with his arms tightly crossed does look very aggressive or maybe defensive. He keeps saying it doesn't make any sense. He's certainly got that right.
I don't think I can take someone seriously if they're suggesting Paul has been cooking up shit all these years.
Say what you want about the wood, but don't pretend the guitars suck.
@@tom.m I wasn’t trying to imply his guitars were bad just that he’s bitter that he’s been called out selling that tonewood snake oil all these years.
@@donkarnage6032 Ecept Paul would be the chef that cooked so well he now owns a chain of restaurants with a 6 month waiting list to get a table
piss poor analogy
A chain smoking chef with no tastebuds left
When I was a kid, back in 1962, Bell Canada replaced the wooden poles and ceramic insulators with concrete poles and glass insulators. The warmth of the wooden poles was lost in the low end but a significant gain in the top end was achieved by the introduction of the concrete poles. I replaced the straight cord on our phone with a coily cord and immediately noticed an improvement in the mids and the low end. Changing the colour of the phone made a small difference, with the black phone sounding darker. This test was done on a wall-mounted phone so I do not know if the results would be the same for a standard desk phone of that era.
😂
I couldn’t agree more. With you, just to be clear. 😊
'shut up and play yer guitar'
-Frank Zappa
I'm not sure folk aren't attributing something to Zappa that was used against him that he later used ironically... but I sure would have loved Frank to weigh in on this one!
@@har234908234 Considering he modded his guitars to hell and back, I doubt he even cared about what it says on the tin.
Frank's guitars were heavily modified one of a kind guitars with internal boosts etc. Even his son said you can't match his tone because of the gonzo stuff he did while obsessing over gear.
@@CIRCLEOFTONE Yup...he didnt care about the wood all that much...if he could chip it away and add some weird effect with a switch, he would.
PRS is losing me with every media apperance. He is constantly antagonistic and paranoid. I just saw a "clinic" with audience members out-doing one another. "I have eight Modern Eagles and thirteen McCarthys." "I have seven Silver Skys'." Anytime there was a question that was against the general "praising the Paul" vibe, that person was instantly mocked. The man deserves an Audio audit.
I went to a local guitar shop Paul RS was visiting back 20+ years ago. I was interested in his guitars but had only been playing for a couple of years. He was talking to a couple other guys and would not even acknowledge my existence. That’s all I need to know about the man.
@@Arnold-vc7es that reply doesn’t make sense here
He is probably delibirately misrepresenting the argument. No one can be that dense. It seems impossible.
“It’s the wood that makes it good!” - Cosmo Kramer
ive always wanted a PRS. After hearing Paul talk, i no longer have the desire for one
"Boys, we got our brother back"
there are way cooler guitars out there.
PRS makes great guitars. Have owned and gigged on them personally for decades, but any guitar player worth his salt could have walked up on that stage with a PRS SE and proven that it sounded practically identical to any of the outrageously priced "tone wood" specials that St. Paul seems so determined to think are so radically different. We get it Paul, the rare woods collection isn't selling as well as you'd like. Even the target demographic of dentists and lawyers who's guitars spend more time hanging on a wall than in any remotely capable hands isn't buying into the $15,000+ price tags you were throwing on that shit.
@@brianjones8432 Yeah, PRS and his Gibson wannabe prices
The SE models are absolutely worth it. If you have money to burn you could burn it somewhere else. But if you are on a budget and want a quality tool you can't really go wrong with an SE.
Jim Lill’s methodical demonstrations, Glenn Frickers experiments with speakers and cabinets and mic placement when recording in the studio, and there are several scientific books by German scientists about frequency responses etc, all prove that tonewood in electrics has negligible effect.
Exactly this
Paul's entire argument here is "well, but what if non sequitor, then obviously red herring!"
clearly their speakers, cabinets, microphones, and studios weren't made of quality tonewood
Fender even made a Precision made of resin and cardboard and it sounded like a regular Precision.
Paul: “Jim is a nobody. What bands is he in? Glenn yells too much so I don’t care. Also I don’t know German.”
I'm glad to see someone have an opinion like yours man. I've said for a long time that wood does make a difference, but not in a way that you can hear without a superpower. I think it was Strandberg that put out some charts of a controlled test that show differences that humans won't be able to pick up on without having superhuman hearing.
I am kind of curious about the tuner buttons.
When I changed the tuners on my Les Paul from Grovers to Gibson Deluxe, I noticed a change. My first thought was the change is a result from the weight of each tuner assembly.
I feel it and hear it unplugged.
....unplugged...
The placebo effect is what that is called.
Love PRS guitars. Can't stand listening to the dude.
The guitar is ok, not my favorite. Paul is an ass.
He's his worst enemy
Does the PRS guitars come with a fedora or do you have to buy that separately?
The maybe biggest impact is a change of picks. The try a metal one or a wooden one. That is a massive change. The wood is only a tiny fraction in comparison to that.
He sounds like a drunk guy at a party talking bollocks and annoying everyone!
That was ridiculous. Pompous windbag
nice video, as usual.
A number of years ago Dylon of Dylon Tones actually cut off the excess (not-physically-needed) wood off a Tele (I believe) type guitar. There was no noticeable difference between the sound before and the sound after. PRS wants you to believe it matters so to sell an expensive TONE WOOD guitar. Nothing more, northing less. The main thing to make a guitar sound different is IF the player practices more.
It was Jim's video that put the argument to bed for me.
It was glorious
there were also follow up videos from actual acoustic guitar makers explaining how Jim was correct & how solid body electrics only need to provide a base for the strings to vibrate for the pickups to convert to a signal. The only change would be density & that change would be sustain & amplitude - none of which is related to tone.
Yeah same here.
PRS is giving major "Old man yells at cloud" vibes here...
Great commentary.
Well reasoned discussion KDH. PRS is the kind of loud drunk you'd never win an argument with .
"Guitar players will do anything but play guitar." Very true!
I felt personally attacked. And then realised I'm watching a video instead of playing...haha
So true, the amount of money I've spent on gear that I really didn't need (pedals are my main problem). The most important thing is having a guitar with a decent setup and a good quality amplifier. Everything else is just accessories pretty much lol
Ironic, the guy accuses people discounting his magical wood claims "Sitting in their basement on the internet", when the people who put the highest emphasis on that are the "guitars as investment" types who barely touch the things
KDH…well done👍
Your analysis is incredible. Thank you for teaching folks about logical fallacies.
If only people spent this effort talking about different types of speakers and cabinet design.
Glen Fricker talks about speakers a lot. And he's also not in the "tonewood" camp. I just can't stand his always-pissed-off-and-yelling shtick.
@@naughtscribe I personally used to watch him a lot, but don't anymore.
The always yelling thing got a bit old indeed, and it seems that nowadays he's mostly yelling about things that only chronically online people seem to care about.
It's a shame, I did learn a lot from him but I can't stand his presentation anymore.
@@naughtscribe jim lill is the guy for you if you can't stand glenn, really.
@@naughtscribe Fricker sells IR packs but no-one seems to correlate a conflict of instincts as they do with Paul & hardwoods
@nihilistlivesmatter5197 something told me I would see you here! 😆 Hope you are well my friend.
"Guitar Players being the type of people that will do just about anything besides play guitar" was way too funny.....and true!!🤣
How can I find time to play when there are all these tonewoods to look at it😮
Sure because all guitar players are the same, do the same things, have the same opinions...
Do you understand that there are plenty of guitar players who don't give a toss about any of these discussions and simply don't participate in them? Do you know that there are plenty of guitar players who don't watch CZcams videos by guitar "influencers" either?
@@henrygvidonas9573 What color is your PRS?🤣
Like make drama videos?
What about the strandberg guitar tone experiment?
10:56 sums it up perfectly.
Ultimately, the man is a clown. He constantly changes the goal posts to suit his own agenda, no one is arguing about Violins or rubber strings coated in Vaseline.
Rubber strings coated in vaseline feel the best tho
@@DerSilvano Maybe Paul has a fetish he's not telling everyone?
Reminds me of when the band teacher goes off on a tear lol
@@DerSilvano The guy just hates Ukubasses.
Obviously on PRS guitars, the strings are made of (tone)wood, too... 🤔
I was on the fence but Paul just made me realize the truth. Tonewoods don’t matter.
I saw an excellent demonstration of the tone-wood argument on an electric guitar. A guy on CZcams got three pieces of wood and 1 piece of a composite material (kevlar?). He fashioned four basic square bodies from the wood and the composite piece, all of the exact same dimensions, same bridge, same pickups, same neck, everything basically was identical. Now I did notice a very, very slight difference but it was so minimal that the tiniest bit of EQ would wipe out any difference.
The truth is in the middle, different wood does make a different sound but once plugged in and cranked it all sounds the same
Yup just switched to an alder body from a poplar. No difference at all. Changing my pots from 250k to 500k on the other hand, night and day.
The wood matters if you're playing an acoustic guitar. With an electric, once plugged in, the wood doesn't affect the tone even 1%.
The reality is that it makes no difference at all, plugged in clean channel, the wood is structural, nothing more
@@MrDmadness yeah, I've seen the tests people have made, putting the pickups with precisely the same measurements on a piece of 2x4 vs. whatever these scammers call tone wood or anything else, and you just can't hear a difference nor see any difference in a spectrogram or any other visual test of the recordings.
You can theoretically imagine that the material of the body somehow affects the way the strings vibrate near it, but in reality the effect is so miniscule that it's not even worth thinking about.
@@HawkOfGP wood matters a tiny bit in an acoustic ( mostly that harder woods hold tune better ) in electric not at all.
Tonewood and tone tuners... lost all respect for this man. And the arrogance this sycophant crowed gives him... wow.
Tonewood is real. Anyone who disputes this is deaf.
@@richardharrold9736anyone who still believes in tonewood in 2024 is delusional 😂 just take the L, my dude
The maybe biggest impact is a change of picks. The try a metal one or a wooden one. That is a massive change. The wood is only a tiny fraction in comparison to that.
@@richardharrold9736 you forgot that part: "certainly for acoustic instruments".
@@DMSProduktions Really?! Are you that much of a pearl clutcher that the moment anyone has a progressive opinion you go for the attack and assume things with no reason? To get ahead of you so you can’t go straight for the assumption, i’m trans. Now that we got that out of the way, why are you so butthurt about being challanged about things that don’t matter? Fine you believe in tone wood and others don’t, is that such a big thing for you? Is that really something you need to defend with all your heart till your dying breath? It’s just wood dude, grow up
Both Jim Lil and Glenn Fricker demonstrated that the impact of tonewood is so minimal.
Glenn's angle is about Metal music though....
And Jim Lill played two of the same Teles with different pickups clean, guess what?....different tone
But...Tonewood is more about woodworking then it is about tone
Just try making a quality instrument with lumber grade pine......
And Johan Segeborn demonstrated that the impact of tonewood is considerable and clearly audible.
Tim Sway's experiment on this matter is the best.
Personally, I think the wood can affect your playing - if your guitar is too heavy or too light, for example, and it can affect your sustain, but your tone is produced by electric circuits. Wood has no electromagnetic properties. It does not affect the tone.
If a solid body guitar's acoustic properties mattered, weirdly-shaped guitars wouldn't exist. Instruments like Yamaha's silent guitar wouldn't exist.
@@Cougar139tweakGlenn has done clean tone videos as well, purposefully to stop people saying he's all about metal. And Jim Lills video proved that you can have a perfectly usable electric guitar with no wood whatsoever. The overall argument I've heard is that there is absolutely no need to spend thousands on an overpriced PRS "because tOnEwOoD", instead of a much more affordable option. PRS will always say it makes a massive difference, purely because he needs to sell overpriced guitars upwards of £5k. It's really that simple. It's business
That's a bit of a keyboard-warrior argument, and it doesn't do reality justice. Play a PRS core, and you'll know Paul is right.
I think I've actually seen people arguing that the wood fibres in older instruments are affected by the vibrations transmitted through the body, which is why old stradivarius instruments are so sought after.
It's well known that you have to "play in" a decent classical guitar before it sounds it's best. A classical guitar can also "play out" after a number of years, it loses it's tone. I've never heard of a old violin being played out. Ironically, the superior sound of the old Italian violins seems to be down to the tonewoods that they used.
Even if it mattered, it would be pretty much impossible to consistently build electric guitars to sound similar, because each piece of wood will be different in density / mass.
The sound isn't created acoustically, it is created via the pickups. The pickups create a magnetic field, the metal strings disturb this field. People will argue that the wood of the guitar will change the way how the strings vibrate, and that is technically true, but generally that's not something that matters. Every object has a specific resonant frequency. That means if the wood really had a big impact on the vibration of the strings, it would essentially mean that some notes are canceled out, some are amplified, and others are somewhere in between. That's not a desirable outcome, because of course you want each and every note to sound somewhat similar, and sustain somewhat similarly.
There is actually cases where the mass of the instrument is known to cause noticable issues. For example the dreaded dead frets on a Fender precision bass. If you're unlucky with the wood your precision bass is made out of, you can have an instrument that has the specific mass that is needed to cancel out one of the notes on the G string around the 6th-8th fret. Meaning, every single note on the bass will be pretty much identical, except for that one fret. The solution to that is a product that even Fender themselves sell, which is essentially a piece of metal that you can clamp onto your headstock. That piece of metal changes the mass and therefore the resonant frequency, usually eliminating that dead note. Should we call that tonemetal?
For an electric guitar, this makes absolutely no sense at all if you have any idea how magnets and amplification work.
Amplify some nonresonant barely dried wood then some properly treated mahogany with full resonance and there's a difference tho
@@infinidominion Jim Lil did even remove the wood completely and there was still no noticeable difference in the signal! ;-)
@@Traumglanz ..."noticeable" is in the ear of the beholder. Better ingredients, better pizza...no?
@@infinidominiontell me you didn’t do the research outlined in this video aha
@@lazvt8469no because we can use technology to literally see the signal not change :)
it's not surprising he's confused as his guitars have so much dye, polish and buffer compounds on it that it doesn't even look like wood anymore
Thank you for the correct pronunciation of 'divisive'. Far too many CZcamsrs have fallen into pronouncing it 'divissive' and it does my head in. Great video too.
Two different question: does tonewood matter? Probably not much.
Does the materiald a guitar made out if affect the final sound of it? Yes, even the wood.
The fact that Paul didn't even say something like: "Maple provides a different sound or tonal properties compared to Alder." Going into this video I was convinced that he would straight away go into comparing woods and their "tonal properties", but no... What a weird guy Paul Reed Smith is. He could've atleast TRIED to prove his point of view, but instead he just made up weird stuff, like rubber bridges and smearing vaseline on the strings.
That would actually have been a good approach to a valid argument about the subject. Talking about the different physical properties of pieces of wood from different botanical species and the mechanical effects of different densities, masses, grain structures, etc.
Instead he just vomited logical fallacies, petty insults, and blathered about unrelated who-the-hell-knows-whats. Put a "rubber bridge" on the most expensive private stock PRS, a good Squier Classic Vibe, and on the cheapest guitar at Walmart - and they will all sound and play like crap. But it will tell you nothing about the tonal qualities of the woods in those guitars. Not a damn thing! Put a "rubber bridge" on a Stradivarius and no violinist on the planet will want to play it on stage or in front of a microphone.
Even if he was objectively right about everything he's trying to say, Paul would still be unable to convince anyone, except people who are already totally caught up in his little cult of personality. That's how abysmally bad he is at expressing himself and constructing an actual argument. His social awkwardness and arrogant, patronising "rich nerd" attitude don't help with anything either.
It sounds like a politician talking about something they have absolutely no clue about😂
"Inflation is down"
- Paul Reed Smith
The topic that always resurrect. The gift that never stop giving.
I have 2 guitars, same wood and both use Satin paint but different brands and they sound wildly different because one has the stock Jackson pickups and one uses the stock Epiphone pickups
My first guitar was a Mako. The body was literally plywood. With some EMGs in it, it was wicked good. I still have it.
It probably has a bone saddle
@@toledojavier3619 naw, a crappy Fender trem knock off. Plastic top nut. It was like $150 in 87.
You buy a guitar, plug it into 5-10 pedals, into an amp, out of a speaker, Into a microphone to a mixing desk, out the mixing desk to a PA. Every step has Tone and Gain controls YET people say they can hear a difference in wood! 😂
If I play them a crappy demo of mine from let's say 2017, I bet they couldn't figure out, which wood my guitar was made out of
@@DerSilvano they would say “that doesn’t sound like what *insert wood type here* normally sounds like” 🤣
@@gigsandguitars6921 definitely xD
Quite - Jimmy Page rocked tracks such as "Kashmir" on a relatively cheap Danelectro that - having bought one myself a few years back - is not made of the finest matured wood from a secret forest in darkest Peru or whatever lol. I love a nice piece of wood on a guitar but mainly for aesthetic reasons such as the look or, most importantly, the feel of the neck/fretboard. The last thing I have ever worried about in almost 50 years of playing is the tone created by the slab of wood the body was made from. I don't care what anyone believes themselves, but Paul R Smith choosing to insult and belittle anyone who disagrees with his bullshit argument is contemptible. I cannot imagine Leo Fender ever talking such nonsense.
@@martin-1965This is why I look up at Leo. He saw this whole thing with the eyes of an engineer. Don’t get me wrong, I love nicely fininished exotic woods and an instrument that has character and can insipire me, but anyone who uses the argument that tonewoods are thing for electric guitars are either didn’t opened a physics book since elementary school or have money behind it.
Regarding rubber strings, I recall years ago a bass manufacturer sold a bass guitar with strings that resembled surgical tubing. I assume it used a transducer to convert the string vibrations.
this debate rages in the drumming community as well
Though it makes sense there since a drummer is an acoustic instrument
Well according to PRS the tuning pegs affect the tone...then others who have said in the past that the paint changes the tone. Some guitarists have said that paint color changes the tone...and let's not forget Gibson's tone polish. Some people are just full of bs.
Billy Corgan was pushing this.😂😂😂😂
And they try and play us for stupid to get our money.
@@75YBA exactly 😂 lol
Everything affects the tone. If the tuners are made of metal, that will likely transfer more string resonance to the body than plastic ones would. The difference will be minimal and insignificant in the great scheme of things - but I'd be surprised if it was absolutely zero.
do not forget the authentic glue but it will cost extra
First problem in TW debate is that it is assumed Tone means good tone instead of simply more or less bass, treble, frequency content with some resonance characteristics.
I like that argument... I'm not sure why my CS and LSL sound magical compared to a simple USA or Mex...with same/similar pups. What are the real 'qualities' or aspects that my auditory senses are finding most appealing?
@@lazvt8469 The fitment of the neck to the body and other characteristics that affect the transfer of energy between the body and neck, fret material, nut material, the strength with which parts under tension are fastened and are capable of being fastened to the body, saddle material, bridge material, tuner material, trem springs, trem claw, trem block, overall tension of the tremolo system, pickup magnet type, pickup magnet strength, and the resistance of the pickups will all affect the tone of a guitar. LSL has hand-wound pickups, which means that they are likely to be wound according to bespoke specifications preferred by LSL. If not imaginary, the difference you perceive could be any combination of these things.
no no no I paid more for my guitar wood so it's better sounding! Shut up!
I agree speakers, cabinets, and pickups are the biggest things that matter. After that, If there is, its not enough to make much difference over what an EQ pedal can change. I have maple and rosewood and its seriously not enough difference to care about. I can change any guitar and make it to what I want it to sound like to match the music I play. I could have you listen to one to another guitar and you would never know what guitar had which wood or what the necks are made of.
I dont know that its a tone issue but I way prefer the feel of my alder, ash and mahogany body guitars over the basswood guitars I own.
I love PRS guitars, but Paul is so busy sniffing his own farts that he doesn't have time to sample the cork.
Hast Mr Smith not played a Parker Fly? STUNNING guitars. Last one I had the privilege of noodling upon was carbon graphite IIRC, sounded magnificent.
The only time wood makes a difference is when you play without an amplifier and then there is a huge difference in the type of woods and classical players will pay thousands more than I ever would for a guitar that meets their needs. I on the other hand don't need those tone woods because I want to amplify the sound: I need a floating bridge, Fishman Fluence, pickups, thinish fretboard, 7 strings and a flatter fretboard, 24 frets and a variety of pedals and assortment of amps (be it analog/digital), couldn't care less if the body was maple, rosewood or carbon fiber. Of course, I practice without an amplifier, but, my primary enjoyments come when I play with an amplifier. Different needs for different folks.
Paul needs to remember his respirator before going into the spray booth. I've been building solid body electric guitars for a few years now and the empirical evidence is that wood type makes sod all difference to the plugged in tone.
Dude in front row of that presentation must've had airpod in listening to Meshuggah because his nodding was bordering on headbanging!
Lmao so true
death by yesman
That guy was planted, he made his beer money on that day.
Plant 🪴, or Useful Idiot … 🤔
He looks like he is blowing Paul.
I like Dylan talks tone take on it where wood does matter but not in tone like neck wood choice is going to effect neck dive way more than it does with tone.
I have my new mahogany body Strat with Nazgûl p’ups and added Floyd rose and practiced. It sounds the same as my KH-212.
Rember, the people most insistent that wood matters because theg "can hear the difference" were convinced for decades that the Stairway solo was a Les Paul through a Marshall stack because of some posters
Was he using his strat? Or his tele?
only u my friend
@@jallekulmala1370 I had the advantage of internet access, but nice try pal
@@jamesceronetelecaster through a supro combo, if I'm not mistaken. The live "LP into a Marshall" sound is still glorious, though.
Page never made any secret of having used a Tele for that solo, even clear back in the mid-70s. He did point out that if you cranked the amp high enough, “it’s bound to sound like a Les Paul.”