Reading In Video Games (and why I barely do it)
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2022
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A lot of games have thousands and thousands of words placed behind optional text logs, and despite a lot of that writing being good and interesting, I find myself rarely engaging with any of it, so this is my attempt to examine why that happens and the approaches some games take that actually convince me to do optional reading.
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#reading #control #horizonzerodawn - Hry
if you are reading this comment, you are technically reading an optional text log. hope you're well.
Hi Razbuten c:
I enjoy your videos, a lot. Wanted to say so. c:
Meaning finally i am intelligent
I think you can add in phone calls from NPCs to this list as well, after playing Cyberpunk 2077 on the 1.5 patch, I have to say the constant interruptions are quite aggravating.
Ohhhh you got me there. Well played!
Thanks 👍
Speaking as a chronic text-reader myself, I'm not sure the developers necessarily care *that* much about people reading them, but treat them as a feature to reward players who invest more time and energy in the world, and to increase replayability. A lot are very difficult to find, and are treated as a collectible-which a lot of players find satisfying on its own. It's not all that different to secret weapons, enemies, or places, but caters to a different audience (like myself); enriching what is already there, and means paying attention pays off.
Pretty awesome to see one of my favorite youtubers replying to another one of my favorite youtubers. Huge fan of your work, man!
I haven't really looked at it this way but as someone who really enjoyed the textlogs in Horizon to such an extend that I was really happy if I found one just so I could explore the lore a little more. I think that's exactly how I would describe it. Plus if they are written well, they tie in to the main plot and give you way more insight in the motivations of charakters and factions.
I agree with the idea that there is value to it being aimed at a kind of player who will find it enriching to the experience, but I do still think there is a way to have it be valuable for The Readers as well as The Degenerates (like me). Gathering collectibles for the sake of gathering collectibles is a pretty weak motivation in modern gaming. It feels like a holdover from the collectathon days of the PS1 and N64 when tech was less sophisticated, and while it certainly still works for some folks, progression of a character or their abilities is always going to be a stronger motivator than just seeing that you've gotten 34/111 of something. I largely just think that the gap can be closed a bit more than it currently is.
Flavor text is a great example of this. When games do it well I will read every scrap on every potion given half a chance. When done poorly I feel like I was given an encyclopedia to study
See, this makes sense to me, but I also sometimes feel that some games use optional text as a crutch - a place to drop all the characterization and depth which they otherwise lack.
Example: One playthrough of Skyrim, I decided on a whim to actually read the Thalmar dossier for Ulfric Stormcloak, and that brief bit of text totally changed my opinion of the character.
What I learned about him and the civil war shouldn't have been so easily missed, because my willingness to read optional text in the first place is directly proportional to my preexisting investment in the story. If just playing through the quests gave me the same insights, I would be willing to read a lot more of those notes.
Contrast this with Lair of the Shadow Broker from ME2: I had no issue plumbing the depths of the hidden files on my squad because I was already interested in them.
IMHO, games shouldn't wait for a player to go looking for good writing when good writing is what gets most of us searching in the first place.
I always wished there was an app that recorded the "reading" data and displayed them on my phone etc. so I can read them offline at my leisure or while traveling.
That’s actually a really good idea
Screenshots?
Book? Kindle? Cheap Chinese e-reader?
ur answer........ fandom wikis
Assassin's Creed 4 Black Flag actually had that. It was a companion app that you could download on your smartphone and connect to the game. You could run one of the ship minigames, play some of the sea shanties you found, and read the text entries you unlocked in the animus. Sadly they stopped updating it and it no longer works on today's smartphones (plus I think it's been pulled from the app stores as well)
I genuinely feel like I’m missing something if I don’t read text logs. Sometimes, I feel exhausted from them, but my OCD won’t let me skip it.
You don’t have ocd, you’re just curious. Don’t stereotype disorders.
@@anuncreativeusername2231 With all due respect I actually do have OCD, that might not be the actual reason, Might be additive, but it’s actually definitely part of it.
I had that same problem for years. Go play Mass Effect 2. That ought to cure your OCD.
I don’t know how well this would work because it sounds kind of dumb in practice but I remember getting so told I had OCD years ago and to get over it I just kind of started to ignore it or at least all the parts that you can until it gets to the point where you can ignore more and more of it because a lot of things are really annoying and inconvenient, for example I’ve left the house and had to go back inside just because I didn’t step on the right part of the stairs and if I don’t step on that part of the stairs my day is going to be ruined in one way or the other or I’m gonna crash the car and even though I know that’s probably not gonna happen it might so getting over it a bit helps.
Yea, I feel you. I have OCD too.
That sign won't stop me because I can't read!
Hi Jacob ur my favourite CZcamsr
@@ea69692 same
@@ea69692 same
Imagine the paradox if that wasn't a quote from a character....
One of my main gripes with text and audio logs is when they're divided into multiple parts. It always sucks when part 1 of a side story is compelling and then the next part you find is like part 5 or something. Some games get it right though, like H3:ODST's and Halo Infinite's audio logs' always unlocking in the correct order regardless of where you find them
That is a really interesting thought. There is something to be said for unraveling a story non-linearly and piecing it together, BUT it also takes a lot more effort on the part of the player. I think you're right that a handful of games could benefit from having them be in a set order no matter what.
AGREED.
I'm looking at you Destiny 1 and 2
@@frandurrieu6477 D2’s gotten way better about this at the very least. I don’t think there’s been an out-of-order lore book since Shadowkeep (maybe earlier idk).
By “out of order”, I mean the way you unlock them, not the stories themselves being told non-linearly. Just realized I worded that weird
@@Flemmonade I started playing D2 after shadowkeep release (I have already stopped playing some short time ago) and the few lore entries I have found or acquiered are a mess, specially those obtained through seasonal or permanent achievements because a lot of times they will bre blocked behind seasonal content missons only or activities which require me to do crazy feats that are beyond the average player's skillset
I really appreciate you calling out interrupted audiologs leading to a walk in circles phenomenon.
I love the text in Subnautica. You don’t _have to_ read most of them, but you learn more about the world and it makes you feel a bit less lonely. There’s very little of it (for me at least) and I found myself spending a lot of the game searching for more.
You're so right about just standing still to listen to audio logs lol. When they’re cut off by random dialogue it makes you wonder if developers even play their own games. And I just love seeing Outer Wilds pop up in random videos. I truly think it's one of the greatest games ever made.
Huge agree, running through the level with an audio log on would be the first thing I'd try to do as a QA, and the first thing I'd be like "Hey, this doesn't work out right on timing" if it got cut off. Yet it happens so often in games that I just sit there so I don't miss the lore
I had 2 thoughts in that.
1st is to just have the audiolog pause when someone else starts talking or something dramatic happens. If the audiolog was actually some kind of in-universe recording, this could be the player's character literally hitting pause on it and then restarting it with a little rewind when they (and thus the player) is no longer distracted.
The other, if there's a dedicated side character would be to have the side character speedreading stuff as you walk (maybe with the player's character not even being able to read the writing if you want to get fancy, which could have multiple advantages) and rambling summaries interspersed with commentary. This would also allow you to emphasize important information with vocal inflection while letting the more dripfeed of background lore to take the form of a nice reading voice in place of music (which could also serve as a non-visual indicator of where your party member was). It also would serve the important writing goal of providing worldbuilding _and_ characterization at the same time.
Further, you could have commands to ask for something to be repeated, elaborated on, or tell the character you're not interested in a certain topic (which would filter out the speaking for summaries of lower importance lore relating to it with the overlap of an importance rating, logs of when the player expressed disinterest, and simple tag system under the hood).
It could even allow you to give the player a book/note that in-story contained a particular piece of plot information, but then hide part of the info seamlessly in the part of the text the companion character skims over until some trigger event makes them realize it to be plot relevant.
You'd need a lot of time from a specific voice actor, but giving them creative control over the character and the specifics of the lines could take some work off your writing staff and there always being someone dedicated to the characterization of that one character could help keep the game from loosing sight of making sure to characterize them along the way.
Ellie's journal in TLOU2 I think is what made the ending so impactful and actually stick for me. Seeing her painstakingly attempt to draw Joel's face from memory over and over but fail because she's so haunted by their last moments was gut-wrenching.
TLOU2 eww
It's interesting that you started this video with Control, as that's one of very few games where I WANTED to read everything because, as you say, it was all so well-written (and also I'm a bit of an SCP nerd). I didn't even mind that they were bland-looking text documents in a menu, because it weirdly fit the mundane office vibe that makes up half of the game's atmosphere. Especially when you'd find notes about bathrooms going missing or employees casually discussing some otherworldly horror like it was a discussion about stationery shortages. For me, they enhanced the experience, rather than got in the way of it.
I agree! I read a lot in that game! Its just so well written and fits so much with what you are experiecing and it can build anticipation with possible weird stuff that could happen.
Control is incredible! Loved the combat and exploring that building. The lore is something else entirely and taps into that high strangeness curiosity I have.
this was definitely one of the few games where I actively read everything I found because the lore was just so unique and I wanted to understand more. It drew me in like a good book
I'm playing Control in this very moment and i'm super enjoying read those files (despite I usually dont read them all in other games), even though those documents feel bland-looking in Control, they are very well written that keeps me interested, and it sums up with the criticism of the game about the bureaucracy in real world where everything you want to do in that building, you need to do it documented and there is a lot of protocols to follow in order to write a single note or document. It only makes the world you are exploring richer.
I loved the gameplay but actively avoided absolutely everything having to do with the story. It was basically fbi (sorta) agent kills aliens monster thing. The only thing that was presented in a was that was appeling to me atleast was the gameplay. When I opened the many and saw those 4 big different kind of lore/read me section I cashed out and enjoyed the gameplay. I like to read but it’s not why I play video games.
I wish more games had the mechanic like in Batman where a lot of the audio tapes can be played and then continued as you explore the world as to not stop your flow of progress.
Yeah, that's cool. But then again, voice acting isn't free.
Exactly. I love that shit. Even The Walking Dead Saints and Sinners pulled that off, with all the notes you find around the world playing a voice-over of the character who wrote it as you continue exploring.
@@thescruffinator8830 Any way to turn that off? They are soooo long and loud, I usually skip them.
I thing mgs had these too
Bioshock has them
I read far too much into optional text in games. My favorite part about my favorite games is deep diving into the hidden lore of the games. Reading the foot notes left by the developers to teach you the small details of the world you are exploring fills me with an undescribable joy
Why is Donald Trump pretty and I am not? But why does he only have a wife but I have TWO HANDSOME GIRLFRIENDS who I show off in my masterpiece YT videos? Do you know the answer, dear aeon
Time pressure
Bottom text
@@AxxLAfriku shut the hell up, stop posting the same things in every comment and reply section you come across.
Subnautica made me love this.
I didn't expect you here
The one thing that came to my mind is Mimir's stories in GoW while sailing. It is implemented so well, that even if reach land he says he'll continue the story later, and he will once you sail again.
I really, really liked that implementation. Such a good idea.
Those were honestly some of my favorite parts of that game. I think more games should have a little sidekick character that tells you stories or reads audio logs.
GOW 2018, spiderman ps4 and man eater use my favourite ways of lore exposition. I had forgotten about mimir, it was such a well integrated feature
@@KRYMauL It depends on the quality of the logs, horizon is shock full of logs that are frankly too tall and pretty boring
That was such a great implementation for players to learn more about the world and its lore.
I didn't read a lot in Guardians of the Galaxy (2021), but I got a huge laugh upon reading one entry and realizing it was a Nova Corps soldier's self-ship fanfic with the Worldmind and I just loved that they even bothered. I felt it showed there was love in every inch of this game.
GotG was such an underrated game, man. That game deserved much more attention.
I would like to say, Tunic is a really cool take on reading in games. You collect pages of an instruction booklet meant to mirror ones shipped with older games, meant to explain things that the game itself doesn't. The book explains lore, provides maps with secret locations, and uncovers mechanics that you wouldn't know about otherwise. It's mostly written in a fictional language that can be decoded, and the booklet is necessary for achieving the "true ending"
The optional text is basically the game
I always start games reading everything I come across, but there's always a point where you kinda lose interest unless the game does it VERY well, like the Outer Wilds as you mentioned
don't forget Disco Elysium
Just outer wilds, no the
Outer Wilds is such a good game
@@Sprightey Isn't Disco Elysium a game where you expect to read a lot of text though? So it's less of a switch in approach to the game.
I had an opposite experience with Horizon Zero Dawn. At first I was simply running quests, scannin occasional text/voices and skipping them. Then something hit me, and I read all scanned logs and started searching thoroughly for more. However, I have to admit I still skip books in other games.
I like when the main character tells a summary of the text after you close it.
Freaking Fi, sometimes it was word for word at a slower text speed! (Before Skyward Sword HD).
Lara in Tomb Raider did this the best of any I ever saw. You could find an artifact and read some history about it, and she would comment on what you found. Not only that, but if you turned the artifact and found a spot on it, she would comment on that too. no other game has ever done that, and I love that aspect. Makes you connect more with the character.
Last of us part two did this really well
I think Control is the only game where I almost read everything. At some point I was suffering but I just loved the game so much because of how interesting the mini-stories in the logs were. Like you were reading about a certain object of power, 1 hour later you find it in game and your reaction is "Wow! I know what this is!" that just gives you the extra oomph.
I really enjoy the task of finding all the little “extras” in games. I feel like by finding audio logs/journals/etc. I’m discovering secrets that no one else has found (even thought I know everyone is playing the same game I am). I appreciate the extra work it takes to flush out the lure of a game and I find it keeps me more engaged.
8:05 Disco Elysium is a fantastic example of this. Lead writer, Helen Hindepre said that they had an imposed character limit on what they could write in any given chunk, meaning that paragraphs are kept short in between player interactions -even if that interaction is just "click for more text"-
This allowed them to essentially write a game made up entirely of tweet sized chunks. Which was highly effective!
Yeah, I was gonna mention this. There's so much reading in Disco Elysium, but it never felt like I was reading all that much because of the way the text was presented. The tactic was amazingly effective.
Wtf are you talking about? Disco Elysium is a terrible example of this. That game is almost entirely reading/listening to voice actors read. Reading is literally the core gameplay of that game.
@@KenLinx They're talking about how the text is presented. I agree that the limitations they put on paragraph length makes it much more easy to digest. Snappy. They said Twitter was what they saw as their rivals.
@@eyvahehyeh8927 What Disco Elysium did isn't unique at all. Idk wtf they mean by Twitter is their rival, how about literally any other game with story told through text dialogue? Disco Elysium isn't even especially good at reducing the word count. There are numerous examples of characters going on and on about in-game lore that the player has no business remembering.
I can't even think of one game where each dialogue box is more than a paragraph long and they acting like what they did is revolutionary?
@@KenLinx I can understand why you don't like DE, cause you seem to have zero reading comprehension...
I was so invested in Horizon Zero Dawn' lore that when I found the infamous bunker filled to the brim with logs I actually had a blast reading everything. I guess the fact i read everything from the start helped a lot, but I'm glad I experienced the game this way
Same for me, it made the revelation in the end so impacting.
I agree I think the game made you want to find out as much as possible about what happened to humanity which was a great incentive to read all the logs.
Horizon zero dawn's story is amazing when you read all of it indeed! glad im not the only one haha! :D
Mass effect, dragon age origins, and civilization all had really awesome optional text I loved jumping into
I actually really enjoyed how The Shadow of the Tomb Raider did their artifacts, it was nice to have an image and have the text read to me. I need my hand held in video games sometimes...
Shadow’s lore is also going to be a personal favorite
Love that too!
I love Shadow
I remember in Outer Wilds they start slowly with the info they give you, and then you reach to a point where you HOPE to find more readings on the walls in the next section to find out what happened and get as much info as you can. It was the first time I actively tried to get as much lore as possible from within a game. I love it
Given how the game is almost entirely lore, your absolutely right. After every text but you hope to encounter more so you can truly know what happened. It’s a little diff in the DLC, but the feeling carried through. Amazing game through and through
@@kittykat4480 I haven't completed the dlc but the dlc focuses on speculation than telling a story. It only shows us the images, but whatever it conveys is up to us and how we interpret it.
This is a good contrast to the main game.
How do you remember everything you read?
@@Sundji if its intresting, my brain autosaves it.
That's because *knowledge* is the reward you gain for playing that game, and knowledge is how you progress through that story. For most games, text/knowledge is not necessary to progress (instead you just follow quest markers, or go down the hallway, or solve the easy puzzle), and the benefits you gain from playing most games are usually of a more visceral nature.
It also helps that Outer Wilds trimmed all of the fat from their text, meaning that you know everything you read is somehow important to finishing the game.
"...for a lore youtuber who can do all the hard work of digging through the writing, condensing all the information, and making a fire video on it."
Pour one out for Brian David Gilbert and his Unraveled video where he chronicles his journey through reading all of the books in Skyrim.
And, maybe related, the halo novels
Yes, absolutely, I read every damn thing every time--unless they suck/are clearly generic and repetitive, but my favorite thing in real life and in games is taking an open ended moment to look closer.
Life is Strange 2 did this really well. The main character kept a journal that was full of art and sketches with commentary on whatever was going on that made the player actually want to check the text entries regularly.
Chloe also does that in Before the Storm, i love it
@@stonecat676 Also Max in 1
Same with RDR2, and is the main reason I feel incentivized to check the log entry after Arthur notes something down.
This is true of every Life Is Strange game. It's not a peculiarity of LiS 2.
I'm dyslexic, I often _want_ to read everything, but sometimes I just _can't._ I really enjoyed the written stuff in Control, but only because I watched a Let's Play of it in which the player read them out loud. There's so much reading in that game that it would have been a nightmare for me to try and get through all of it on my own.
I hope more games add a feature that reads text out loud, Even just a digital (google translate) type voice would be nice
Alan Wake 👍
please tell me you’ve watched a let’s play of night in the woods
@@Malecstein Never heard of it before your comment. I just started watching PlayFrame's playthrough and am really enjoying it so far. Thanks for putting it on my radar!
@@anameistoohard its definitely one of my favorite games, glad you like it!
I really enjoyed the documents in Control. Reading them made me feel like I was uncovering the secrets of the world, and I could sometimes begin to piece together the insane things I was about to encounter before I found them. And they were never crazy long like, say, a book in Skyrim is. They are completely optional, but reading them improves the experience and immerses you in the world more IMO. If you were in Faden's shoes, wouldn't you read every scrap of information you could get your hands on? (also, yeah, the SCP influence runs deep I think)
Same here. :)
Not much of a gamer myself, but a gameplay watcher. I love watching playthroughs. I will absolutely turn off a video if they don't read the documents. I watch games to discover the stories, as much of the story as I can get.
"when it comes to optional text logs, do you actually read all of them?"
yes, always, next question
Ditto.
@@CODENAMEDERPY mew
go get a book
Same honestly
As an indie gamedev, here's how I see it:
"It's there if you try to look."
These texts are already the cheapest way to add content to the game without breaking the fun, as long as it's not mandatory to read them all. The great games I know always let content creators do most of the content explanation to the audience, giving them room to thrive. It doesn't even need to be accurate to the game's content.
It's part of why I go to youtube, because there are channels that can help me discover the things that I've missed when I play the game.
@Hatwox it's cool. Part of growing up. You're probably no longer part of gaming's intended market anymore.
But you would have to ask yourself, how many hours do you need to create that content (writing, adding the objects, placement, sectioning etc.) and what percentage of players are reading through most of it? For majority of games it will be close to 1% . The time could be better used to improve on other aspects of the game for the other 99%
@@KyuubiNoKami Sure, sure. Different factory, different product. I see games as a great medium to tell my story, despite not having the capacity to make the production scale big--at least not yet.
As and Indie Gamedev, i think it's lazzy, a loss of time and valuable people resource, and it's the kind of shitty thing the gaming industry do because they are shackled with conventions and always follow a formula. It's a disrespect to Content Creators either, because 99% of the time, the infos are totally irrelevant gameplay-wise, so the things they write exists in a vacuum and that's it. IMO, everything should be intentional, and if it don't carry any intentionality or purpose, it should not exist. If the information serves to generate discussions or mistery, THEN you are doing it right, otherwise, having nothing is more intriguing and more satisfactory, because the player will imagine the lore.
I am primarly a Content Creator, and there's one game that i have in mind that will be solelly explained by ingame social media posts, cut audio messages, videos, selfies and content that could be seen as totally irrelevant, but they're all lore that you will use to understand about your enemies, as they are all rich in the worldbuilding aspects, and your character won't interact directly with the enemy until late game, so it's very important in the gameplay aspect, because they will show weakpoints, techniques to use against then, enviromental advantages you can explore, how to use devices, secret passages, clues to obtain rewards and the perspective they have about the character and his people, so nothing will be mandatory, but everything will be rewarding and intentional (not lazzy loredump). Also, there is a psychological effect : the player will start to feel empathy, as they will see the other side of the story, so when you confront them, it could be in a non-violent way that solves everybody's problems, or you can wreck them all and obtain your revenge.
@@018FLP with your take, I can agree.
I grew so tired of vapid meaningless game docs this one was absolutely refreshing. I feel like you actually had something to say and I love it. Totally subscribing.
Edit: I’m someone who reads EVERYTHING I can get my hands on in a game. But I also read a LOT.
Well said. I read everything in Life is Strange, Firewatch and Gone Home. But never read in other games.
You pointed out two things. In Story driven games, we will read because that is the point.
And asking us to read in-game. Such as the handwritten notes and journals of Life is Stranfe
I liked how Bioshock did its audio logs. I like text logs for their extra lore but... I ain't reading all that, so I always skip over most text logs. Bioshock had audio logs that can be played over the gameplay while I continue exploring.
This. I wanna stress how much more immersed the player can be when they can still interact with the world while an audio log plays in the background. They can pinpoint where the person who recorded it was coming from, what they last saw,-in a way, these logs immediately bring life to the surrounding area where you weren't paying attention to before.
You think about that nearby skeleton and the items you looted from it. That window is broken. Maybe X object wasn't positioned this way naturally.
It gives off that almost-haunted atmosphere . What was is no longer.
There's so much variability in that too. Shock games' audio logs work well and always provide room for you to listen to them. Halo Infinite on the other hand? I have no idea WTF happened in that game because I can never understand the audio logs because SHOOT SHOOT GRAPPLE GRAPPLE.
I'm not a fan of those. I always end up just staying where I am, to make sure I don't walk into a fight that drowns out the audio log. I'd much rather quickly read something in a menu than have it read to me, assuming I care about the lore in the first place.
"Do you read every text you find in a game?" Yes, yes I do. I love reading all the extra bits and pieces in a game.
Same
Especially immersive sims!
For me it all comes down to the world and if it's interesting enough to want to know more about it. For some games I devour every single thing I can find, for others i just skip them. If it's set in a contemporary world and most of the stuff is about characters that I don't really care about then there's almost no chance that I will bother. But if it's some bizarre fantasy world, be it science or more traditional you better believe that I'm gonna try to figure out every nuance.
@@MNewton I do the same! If the world motivates you to try and understand it better at every opportunity you get, and if the way in which it does it is interesting, the world is well constructed
So what about the books in Skyrim
A game i loved reading in was Dishonored and watching this made me realize they had hidden the best rewards as mysteries whos answers were in the books :D . It felt really satisfying figuring out puzzles or real world locations from them
How to get people to read more in video games tutorial:
-If you can, stop using white color in text or background. It's starts to feel like reading somethink from light bulb after like 10 sec.
-Use biger font. Text in full hd and above is getting really tiny.
-Put notes in places where they makes sense and keep them few and far betwen. I dont know if you noticed, but its not like every single person writes jornal.
You are welcome
The font size issue is a problem with a number of earlier engines, where the text size is fine when you're playing at 640*480 (which wouldn't have been an uncommon choice back when they were new), but has you wanting a magnifying glass at 1920*1080. The Unreal 1, Quake 1, and Quake 2 engines all suffer from it (Quake 3 might as well, but I'm a bit fuzzy about that). For most games using those, it's not too much of a problem, as they tend to get used for more action-heavy titles, but it's a big problem in Deus Ex, where there's a lot of text to read.
The root cause of the issue is mapping font pixels to screen pixels instead of defining text size in terms of the screen size. A font that's 8*8 pixels will fit 40 characters per line on the screen at 320*200, but 80 at 640*480. If you instead defined your font as being 1/40 of the screen width, regardless of the number of pixels in it, then you'd get 40 characters per line at both resolutions, but your 8*8 font would map 1:1 at 320*200, and be scaled up to double size at 640*480.
One additional consideration when looking at whether to have text or voice-over is that, for a fluent reader, it takes less time to read a given passage than it does to speak it, so, if it's unsafe to continue playing while listening due to potential for interruptions, audio logs slow the pacing more than text does.
So true! I hadn't even thought of that, which is funny since that's why English subtitles on English dubbed videos frustrate me. I read the line in one or two seconds and spend the rest of the time waiting for the next one. Sometimes I'll read the subtitle four or five times before the actor finishes speaking.
On the opposite side of the coin however, for someone who isn't fluent (or even just someone with a learning disability like dyslexia) it might take so long to read through a text log that it will absolutely break the flow and force them to stand there reading for 10 mins (on a single entry) before moving along, or they just won't bother at all. And giving people the choice between audio and text would require so much more work. Further demonstrating that it is a difficult subject that should be considered carefully by the dev team instead of just slapping it in because the writer was enthusiastic or the director wanted extra lore.
@@SilverDragonJay I can confirme that second paragraph. I am dyslexic and reading takes me a lot longer than listening. I love discovering the lore of the fictional world I am navigating, but having to read text logs myself just takes way to much time and leaves me frustrated with myself.
If there aren't going to be any interruptions, then an audio log will work fine.
@@mostdefinitelynotaguineapi7566 The trick is how to make sure there aren't going to be interruptions - gameplay sound effects, in-game dialogue, dramatic background music, and other audio logs can all make it hard to hear some or all of a log, even if they don't outright stop the playback. You can maybe get away with ignoring speed-running, but anything that could be triggered by a player during "normal" play in the time it takes for the audio log to play (in whichever language it's longest) is a potential interruption.
A simple solution is to just make an audio desert around any given audio log - but the same desert that takes ten seconds to escape by running for the boundary can easily take a minute or more to find your way out of when exploring thoroughly as you go.
Suppressing other sounds could potentially work, but those sounds are presumably performing a useful function in the game (if they're not, then you have more serious problems that keeping audio logs audible) and you need to find a balance between keeping the audio log from being drowned out and allowing the player to tell they're being shot at before they take too much damage (and if the player is having to focus on combat, they're probably not following the audio log anyway).
It is possible to design so that audio logs play uninterrupted while the player continues to play, but the less on-rails that section of the game is, the harder it is to pull off, and it imposes additional constraints - like only one log per "room", or required non-combat zones - that limit where logs can be placed.
And with info that's important to gameplay, like passwords or locations of things, the player can do a quick rescan to check what's important, rather than having to listen to an entire audio log just to get a 4 digit code at the end.
All games should do those "logs" like Fallout holotapes, where you can hear it at any time while you continue exploring the world. Some people still won't take the time to listen to it all, but it's still the best way to throw in those optional lore fragments.
I agree. And as much as Fallout 3 had major issues... I adored The Adventures of Herbert Daring Dashwood. That was one of the highlights in the PS3 era of gaming for me. It's inter-game narrative done in the best way.
yeah, I think that'd be pretty cool too cause I definitely prefer the ability to move around while absorbing new info, even if all I'm doing is going in circles picking up more junk. That being said though, I don't mind reading from a terminal from time to time cause realistically I get that not everything would necessarily make sense as an audio log (lookin' at you fo76 - sure it's cool they have the most dialogue despite having no npc's at launch, but seriously? we needed audio instructions to boil water? XD)
I personally prefer text over voice logs, since text is much faster to read. So if it's too long, make it readable text. Otherwise it detracts from the pacing even more, which is the opposite of what it should do. Shorter logs are fine voiced, like the location-specific radio messages in Fallout 4.
@@AnotherDuck I think having both options is the best way to go, since most of the time the text being said was already written for the script, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle for the devs and would give players more freedom of choice.
@@kvxtthe whynotboth.png. Definitely agree. Options are good. Subnautica did that, with first having a voice log, and then having the option to replay or read it later on. That game is also a bit more chill than most action games, so it's easier to listen to things while doing stuff.
I'm glad you're still creating videos razbuten :)
I don't often read them but I definitely read everything in Control. I felt it was complimentary to the story of Jesse learning about this place alongside us, the player
I feel like one of the best ways to incorporate lore and reading into a game is by linking the notes/books you find to the main gameplay. An Example: You play a game like Horizon and find a book explaining one of the enemies and hinting at a weakpoint that can be used to defeat it. While fighting, the weakpoint isn't especially marked or obvious, but if you know where it is, you can use it.
Or as another example, the recipe posters in the stables in breath of the wild! (Though images don't really count as reading...)
This would basically be the diegetic design. It actually stuns me that games aren't doing this in majority yet. We have the ability to get rid of artifice like HUDs and many games benefit a lot from that. Even without something like VR just the simple act of manually, visually checking some aspect of the game is HUGELY immersive. An example is checking your ammo in a first person shooter with nothing but the magazine and no UI at all.
That's not in the game right? because I think horizon has all weak points clearly marked
wow I love the idea of attaching rewards/skill points/power ups to text logs and am surprised more games don't do it, it's got so much potential
I don’t think this actually promotes reading though. It just promotes collecting and completionism. You can just pick up the note and close out instantly.
All this promotes is MORE grinding for rewards which is a whole other issue. It also makes them non-optional, it makes them required for advancement
Skyrim does it. People still don't read the book, they just open it and close it right away.
Grim dawn does it as well, and is one of the few that i actually read some of the lore for.
@@TheDamisen I would argue that it discourages reading even more as the primary incentive is the reward attached to it. When people go in with that expectation, it makes actually reading the document an afterthought.
@@Amins88 I think so too. Attaching a reward to a piece of lore shifts the value of it from interesting info about the world to just another piece of loot.
i can’t explain how much i love your videos, you and liam triforce both take my spot as youtube content creators i could spend hours watching
Great analysis man, keep up the good content! God bless you!
One thing I'm surprised you didn't talk about is item descriptions, or flavor text. The best game for this (admittedly, not a video game) is Magic: the Gathering. So much of the worlds of Magic are introduced though tiny, engaging text found on nearly every card. It disappoints me that so few games use item or equipment descriptions, place descriptions on maps, or even skill and ability descriptions to tell their story and introduce their world.
This is also how the Dark Souls games handle most of their world building. The equipment, consumables, and key items you obtain in each always have some details about the world as it pertains to the item. It’s a really neat way to construct a story and world.
Card games are a great example of this. Legends of Runeterra as well
Interestingly in Horizon: Zero Dawn I really enjoyed reading the logs when they pertained to the "Old World," but hated them when they talked about the "New World" stuff. The mysteries surrounding how we ended up there were far more fascinating than the lore of how the new people were getting along.
Yea, the reading and audio logs explaining the mental state of the Shadow Carja antagonist in the game were tedious and, more often than not, rapidly skipped through. I do respect the fact that they added many layers to the game and it gave depth to the world but I found the whole warring ideologies story line alittle bit of a frustrating interruption to just grinding out the exploration of the past. Even though the war was a major main story line throughout the whole game. I recognize that it DID add hours of gameplay, and made me pace myself so I didn't plow through it in 10 hours of binge playing, but that didn't stop me from feeling like it was an obstacle rather than something enriching to the story.
@@persis2223 Exactly. I thought a lot of the New World stuff was pretty generic. They did a good job of world building and explaining how we would end up in that scenario, but it did kind of feel like you were reading something written in the 1400s and I much prefer the casual delivery of the Old World stuff.
For some reason HZD is the only game where I read and listened to everything. EVERY BIT OF INFO. Other games, I ignore 80% of that stuff.
Would have been cool if they colour-coded each type, so as you know beforehand. I think this should be done also to distinguish more important relevant notes from notes that are far less necessary.
The opposite for me strangely enough. The obsession over the old world is perhaps what holds a game like Fallout back, Horizon does it alright though.
Just now discovered your channel (and discoved gaming a year ago, if I'm excluding occasional Runescape and CS 1.5 some 15 years ago). Great content! Keep up the good work! And congrats on being a dad!
I especially enjoyed non-gamer series, because I could somewhat relate to your lady's struggle.
Though for me there was a different kind of struggle - I started with Valheim, then moved on to Witcher 3 and played a bit of WOW with friends (but WOW felt like chore after 2 weeks, so I quit after first month of sub).
After Valheim and Witcher I tried Deus Ex: Human Revolution, Elder Scrolls Morrowind, Rocket League, Rainbow Six Siege and Extraction, Payday 2, Fallout New Vegas, Path of Exile and some other games - basically games that my friends were playing at the time or recommended. But after a strong start of Valheim and Witcher none of the games could get me really excited till I tried Minecraft 3 months ago. Some felt fun for a little while, others felt like I have to complete a course just to get started. Oh, I also struggled with outdated graphics, bad UX or janky controls.
Minecraft tought me to appreaciate and see beauty in blocky textures and I think now it will be easier to get fun from some previously mentioned games. Right now I'm playing Outward and it has been a blast, though combat could be better. But Valheim is still my go-to game when I just want to build something.
I personally LOVE reading in video games. I love lore, puzzle bits, etc. and spend hours looking up text in games. I don't think it works as well for people who enjoy the actions in games.
I'm a fan of when games categorize the text logs; such as Mass Effect. I can read about the races that I'm most invested in whilst skimming over other information dumps that are less interesting to me at face value.
With the physical notes that we can interact with in games, I like those with bad handwriting, since it's fun to decipher. That can't be just me, right?
Not Just you
Hold up, 9 hours ago?
@@pablocawichii Patreon probably.
@@endig4501 yeah
I agree, it makes me feel like I’m reading a real note. It feels immersion breaking to be reading a written note that uses perfect Times New Roman font (and it can’t be that the note was printed out because the the fuck would do that).
It depends on the investment I have in the topic, I did willfully read most logs in Subnautica and it's sequel, but I never bothered reading the sidequest logs in Breath of The Wild and Age Of Calamity.
Fantastic video. I think this is why I enjoy Ori, Metroid, Hollow Knight, etc. Not everything is explained outright, and is often shown through subtext by just playing the game. Specifically in the case of the Prime games, any dialogue or text just does a good job of fleshing out the world or further explaining the situation you are in. They aren't required to understand the main story (save for a few), but it expands upon it and the lore without feeling cumbersome. In those games, you are also rewarded with seeing the little completion bar for the "scans" hit 100%, on top of secret ending cutscenes. I think that's the way to do it. Reward the players for finding/reading/interacting with the text or audio, but make the game function without it for those who dont want to read or listen.
I think it is a bit risky linking things like character stats to picking up notes say a character can get 10 upgrades for a single stat and only 9 of them can be unlocked with xp/story progress/whatever and that last one can only be gotten by getting X collectables players will more often than not will just look up the locations making them at best a checklist, and at worst something the player actively dislikes interacting with.
It's been a while since I played so I might be misremembering slightly, but shadow of war is a great example of what I'm talking about. There were a number of relics and bits of lore scattered in each area you had to climb a tower to locate, then once found you had to spin the object around until you found the exact spot to "actually" collect the object. There were multiple skills unlocked by having a lot of the collectables and by probably a third of the way through I wasn't bothering to listen to or read the artifacts and just mashing the menu closed as soon as I could
I think subnautica did an amazing job with text logs. They entice the player to search for wrecks how to find them and pushes the player deeper and deeper until they get great rewards and unlocks. There's also the menu where it has all the biology of the plants and animals so if the player wants to learn more they can.
I remember reading all the archive entries in AC 1-3 because Shaun (my favorite character) wrote them all by himself and damn it was hilarious. His texts are all snarky, pessimistic and full of interesting fun facts so I enjoyed every new entry.
In other games I sometimes read exploration lore notes or a few book chapters (FFXIV, Skyrim). It's mostly about just a lil bit more lore but sometimes you can discover new quests through it like in Witcher3. The latter is a good reason to read those notes imo, but as long it's written interesting I often read whatever I find ingame. As long it's not 3 pages long that is
i relate to the struggle of always bringing up outer wilds as a positive example for everything in games, but also i get kinda excited every time that game is mentioned in these essays. feels good whenever someone is as downright obsessed with that game as me and my friends are
I feel like Jedi Fallen Order did a really good job with this. Cal Kestis and his force sense rewards the player with “exp”, while also having Cal talk about what he found out, so you can move on while listening to him. It doesn’t stop the flow of the game, is always exciting to find, and tells some really great stories that would be otherwise missed.
The constant references to Outer Wilds reminds me of last decade's constant comparisons to Dark Souls. And that's not a bad thing.
Yes. I always read the optional text stuff. It's nice for Easter eggs and lore, other details that explain things like the ending, etc. The best kinds are the ones where the character reacts to what they're reading (tomb Raider reboot or uncharted 4 are good examples; you get a set in TR and in uncharted usually within one area is a group of related items. They tell an additional story to make the game feel more real/like it's not just a bubble of This Moment ™ as the player/character). But then you have games like Nier where you just get background stuff mostly that the characters sometimes do or don't respond to, and admittedly I never played the other games in the series so a lot of it went over my head, but I know others enjoyed it. I don't personally feel like it adds extra gameplay time or anything (so not fluff for the sake of it sort of thing) because usually people don't include it in their game length estimations.
When it comes down to it I also read because as a writer I like to see what the creators of the game (fellow writers) thought would be important or interesting to include. Why is it here, why this story or these words, why this area of the game, what is it trying to tell me, etc. It adds its own layer of exploration in a way, and that's nice
Glad to see I'm not alone in this because I can not be bothered to read anything when I'm playing a game. I will say your example about rewards for collecting everything was something I noticed in Farcry: Blood Dragon as well. Most of the weapon mods are locked behind collectibles and even though you can beat the game without them they do make the game a lot easier and I ended up going out and collecting everything because of this.
I usually choose to read them, especially when they’re relevant to the story and provide extra lore to the game. Most recently it was Resident Evil Village. Any time there was a note or a book entry, I always end up reading it.
Granted, visual novels are one of my favourite game genres…
I'm a huge text reader myself, and like you said in the video, I've found it affecting how much I enjoy games a LOT (probably a bad example, but i distinctly remember stopping halfway through the final mission on the PS4 Spiderman game to read a backpack entry) - and a concept that I've seen work really well is the whole "find this 3 sentence lore snippet on the wall where it'll remain for the rest of the game" - in games like Hollow Knight (and to an extent, Celeste, if you manage to accidentally miss Theo or something early on). That way, the text doesn't become this overwhelming wall of 5 page essays like it can tend to do in games like Subnautica, but it isn't so barebones that you're not invested in the world. This entire thought process could also just be me hating menus as well, though, because there is no bigger turn away from reading than 20 unread text logs that mean nothing alone and little more in the context of the world.
The last of us 1 and 2 did this very well. Having Joel or Ellie hold the note in front of them from a 1st person perspective and being able to flip pages or move them around made reading so immersive and interesting. Not to mention most of the notes you find in game really have good pieces of background storytelling which makes the world that much more real and lived in. Masterfully done.
Only 0:31 seconds in, with Control being the first thing you mentioned: Yes, I read every single note I picked up. Every one of them clearly tied into how the whole crazy bureau was run, what they did there, the way the absolute insanity of the place had somehow bleed into mundanity for the people who lived that as their everyday...
Also: a lot of them reference each other in some manner. Like, they'll make mention of the specific person who filed a report, and who they reported to, so you could line them up with other similar, or directly relevant reports, to form a bigger picture of specific events that spanned across multiple things going on. It was *wild.*
So, while most random text entries in games don't really engage me, Control in particular, had me searching every area for every bit I could find to read them.
I always look forward to your videos.
For me the problem is that I'm not in "reading" mode when I'm playing an action game. Reading entries fits in some genres but not in others. If it isn't part of the core gameplay loop then it interrupts the flow and feels superfluous.
This is the best take. I love the lore of Blasphemous, but I'm playing it for the tight platforming and tense boss fights. Time spent reading a paragraph of lore on a skull I just picked up is time away from platforming and boss fights. When I'm playing the game, I'm playing the game; I'll get the lore from the wiki.
@@TomCruz54321 I mean, that’s kind of the point. Lots of players *do* become very invested in the lore and world building of a game and want more beyond what’s provided in the narrative. And often that information was created about the world by the writers, but doesn’t necessarily have a place in the plot of the game.
Optional text enables fleshed out lore to be written in an implemented at low cost for the players who care, allowing for fans to engage further with the game beyond an initial playthrough, without extraneous writing bogging down the narrative flow of the game, or needing outsized development resources being allocated to information players don’t need to know.
Great example that I really enjoy: Metroid Prime. Since the logs are ones you scan, they have an in-game source and don't break the immersion. Important bits of text are highlighted in different colors, and if you scan enemies, you get rewarded with a hint for how to beat them. Heck, the first boss will re-aim your reticle to the weak point if you scan it. So even if the text isn't helpful, I still scan everything for a potential advantage.
I noticed that I was reading nearly everything I found in Horizon Zero Dawn but I don't think I've ever read a single book I've found in any of the Elder Scrolls games. I think the difference is that HZD was this post apocalyptic world that inherently contained a ton of mystery surrounding how it had come to be. I was intrigued by that and wanted to know more.
On the other hand, Skyrim's countless books are just all over the place. They may cause the world to feel more real but they don't promise to answer any questions about the world that you might have. Sure, they might expand on the lore. But Skyrim doesn't really make me want to know lore. Whereas Alloy's quest in HZD is tied directly to the questions those text logs are related to.
I can totally understand your point about skyrim not really supporting you to read. Still you got to remember that skyrim isn't a single game it is only a part of a huge line of games beside it is only one part of an entire continent so no wonder if the lore feels kind of empty. It is one if those games that if you play them like action adventure game the game feel kind of hollow even though elder scrolls lore is one of the largest and most compelling one it really feels like you are reading the history of the whole continent not just some isolated part of the world. In a way elder scrolls lore is actually closer to real life history than most of the other games. It tells you most of the core events of the four eras. I highly recommend reading all the lore in those games otherwise it is the same as watching picture and only seeing couple of pixels.
@@aleksihonkanen2629 I understand your point and I absolutely believe that the world of The Elder Scrolls has a deep and expansive lore that pervades all of the games. And I also absolutely understand the people for whom this is a massive selling point. The ones who feel like learning all of this lore is a vital part of getting the most out of the game. I love that for them.
My point is that I usually play an Elder Scrolls title for exploration, interesting quest lines, and fun combat. While I have no doubt that "A Dance in Fire, Book VII" is a well written story that expands on the lore in an interesting way...it is also really long. And it does not advance my three objectives in playing the game in any meaningful way. I don't always have a lot of time to spend gaming and so it is incredibly unlikely that I am going to use the time I do have reading a story I'm not all that interested in rather than actually working on quests or exploring a new dungeon.
I wanted to contrast this against Horizon Zero Dawn where understanding the nature of the world actually was one of my key motivations for playing. So stopping the action to read didn't feel like the hassle it does in Skyrim because I actually wanted to know the information. But just to reiterate, I think this is partially due to the way these titles were designed but I think it is also partly due to my own personal preference. I don't want to make it sound like anyone who does love collecting and reading all of the books in every Elder Scrolls title has a perspective any less valid than my own.
@@LadyArtemis2012 In game fictional stories is definitely a weird outlier case, and it can be real fun to see what the people of that world entertain themselves with. Sure the story is usually extremely condensed and the language is often plain, but it's a neat little optional thing that's fun if you're in the mood for it.
However, I don't think I'll ever bother to read any in game fiction that's broken into several parts that you don't find in order. I've already skipped series entries in real life when part X wasn't available to me and it really isn't much fun at all
I always collect every book I can in Skyrim, and store them at home to read at a later date. Still haven't gotten to reading them, though...
i agree! I’m finishing up my play through of forbidden west and can confirm that reading about the old lives of this ancient civilization is incredibly fascinating and pushes me to read more.
Great tips. I will put these to good use. Thanks for sharing your take.
It depends on the world I'm taking part in. Skyrim? I've read like 5% of the books and notes. Control? Read all that sheeet!
But I also like reading as I did it a lot for entertainment growing up.
Wait, me too! I consider myself a person who reads everything in games, but never Skyrim. XD I wonder why.
Disco Elysium is one of the few games I read just about everything, which shows a well written game will make the player want to discover without getting fatigue
Let me guess, was that 5% the full Lusty Argonian Maid series?
@@Amins88 Truly a masterpiece.
A thing I've started doing in morrowind is, if the book gives me a point in one of my major or minor skills I give it a read. It's quite an immersive little exercise
the percentage of text entries I read in a game is pretty good indicator of how invested I am in that world. in Horizon, I devour everything I come across but in the little I played of Skyrim, I read maybe a handful that seemed like they addressed something cool like the Daedric Princes (if that's what they're called). it also helps if I can expect the text entries to be relatively short. Horizon's are usually two to three paragraphs. (if you can't tell, I dislike your constant abuse of Horizon in this video)
as for audio logs, I never found them as allowing for interaction as you claimed. even in bioshock, I never dared move more than five to ten feet from where I found them because I never know when I'll trip over an enemy or something else that will consume my attention and force me into the menus to relisten to the audio log (which feels especially punishing since you can't actually leave the menu while it's playing like that)
It's the same way for me, I've skipped so many text logs in like, Borderlands (no hate tho I love playing those games) but for HZD I eat up every text log because I love getting those little glimpses into the humanity of people both in the far past or near.
Plus all of horizons are far more meaningful lore than Skyrims for example.
Have to second this. I have a hard time listening to an audio log while also engaging in gameplay. A good tradeoff is to have text transcripts of the audio logs, and allow you to replay the audio logs at will. Subnautica does this, for example.
I love reading good writings a game may have. Lets you get more immersed in the gameworld. Take an extreme example of this: the Outer Wilds, a game where the reward and the driving force is aquiring knowledge, mostly written.
Control is a great example of why you SHOULD read the notes. I actually really enjoyed them an that's one of my top 3 favorite game of the last 10 years.
1. Prey
2. Hollow Knight
3. Control
I feel like horizon zero dawn was one of the few where I actually didn't mind reading logs because it helps you see what happened to the world and what some peoples live were like after all the big events started happening
Me too, was very invested on what happened to the world in that game.
One issue with the "In universe" text logs if they are often "hand written" and scribbled, which immediately puts them in a category that someone with vision issues or dyslexia may find hard or impossible to actually read.
Typically when I see that in games there’s a normal text option you can select, or it automatically pops up. So it’s no different than reading subtitles.
i dont mean any offense with this but i dont think most people in-universe take into account a random dyslexic person stumbling across their note ykno?
@@smoot2337 I'm very confused on the logic here...
Obviously the *characters in the game* aren't gonna be the ones accounting for the player reading something (unless it's a meta game)
It's the developers that decide how the game works (by definition) and should develop a system for the player.
Accessibility settings are needed, and even to the players who don't need them, they're nice. Take Subnautica: Below Zero. The PDA pause is useful for stressful situations/not worrying when planning a project, and the setting to outline interact-ables is good to look for stuff (like blueprints or outcrops/resources)
@@nutmeggaming11261 yea i get that its ultimately the developers' job to make it readable but most games that involve a lot of note-reading usually have an option to view the text more clearly, like the reply above says. my point is just that i dont see any innate issue with having a poorly written note because while yes it's not exactly pleasant to read, it's designed to fit more into the believability of the universe. i'm not one for reading a million notes to begin with but i can understand why they aren't really designed to be easily legible.
@@smoot2337 But then there's still a balance. Wouldn't want chicken scratch where it takes 5 minutes to uncode a single sentence.... And I've struggled like that with text I've myself written...
Hey Razbuten! First video I’ve ever watched of yours. Well done content! With that said, I disagree with the thesis, much for the reason you cite in the video: I am the kind of gamer who will read massive lore dumps or give (probably) WAAAAY too much slack for my media in regards to pacing issues. I deeply enjoy the feeling of immersion (which I recognize is a false god, of sorts) I get from reading this kind of background information or listening to audio logs. This lets me lose myself more in experience and “play the game” even when I’m not actively engaged in gameplay. I find the criss-cross of mediums seems to be like candy to my brain and I just eat it up. That being said, I recognize that that is not the way some folks enjoy their hobby-time. I also know that there could be better ways to approach these documents in the game, but either way, I feel like that I am the pandered to audience. The exception being when its not included at all in a game/setting that I want to explore with my imagination.
Anyway, loved the video. Onto another one for my lunch-break!
Its interesting, I had the exact opposite experience with HZD. The logs in that game were so notably good I found myself actively scouring the important story areas to make sure I got to hear them all.
Same here. I'm the type of player that will bot continue to the next room unless I'm ABSOLUTELY SURE I didn't miss anything in the current one. When I finished the story in HZD I only had like 5 mission texts missing
I would agree with all of this. I would say however the one genre that generally gets text logs right, is horror games. Maybe that's because they do a better job setting the atmosphere in a game where that is often the biggest thing? I would also add that adding notes to collect for the sake of improving your character when you don't care about the notes isn't good design. I think it would just be better to pick up generic "power nodes" or whatever. Having to find notes only to know you are going to ignore them makes you feel like you are missing out on something that is actually important because it has a direct value given to your power as a player. You continue to not read them, because who has time for that, but it puts a bad taste into your mouth and taints the experience more so than not. It also devalues the notes themself for people who want to read them because now the devs need to make sure there are enough notes for the player to gain power and that can cause the quality to drop. Imagine if in BotW each korok seed was a note instead, not only would that suck for people that liked to find lore, it would suck for those that don't care.
Reading text in horror games is also a nice chance to bring my blood pressure back down. 😆
I just wrote a comment about this but Keepers Diary in Resident Evil Remake is my all time favorite optional text log. Humanizing the resident and then reading his slow decent into a zombie terrified and thrilled me when I first experienced it. And the reward for finding and reading it is just perfect. You get to meat the resident!
As much as I like this channel and most of its theories about games I can't help but notice the pattern of thinking that if something doesn't give a gameplay advantage of some sort it's not really worth much. It's like the only valuable rewards you get from a game is gameplay related and the player needs to be given a tangible incentive to enjoy games. This contrasts with other videos that are very much about how games can be entirely emotional in their worth. It all feels a bit inconsistent.
And I really do want to play Outer Wilds at some point, whenever I can stop procrastinating it. Eh, some time in the future maybe.
This.
Seeing more deep dives on how multiple medias can coexhist in games with the necessity of being tied one to another would be great, yet it seems that goes against his idea...
What about moments like in mgs2, where the codec calls with the colonel in the arsenal elevate that area to one of the best in gaming? There's no gameplay there; what about all the lore notes in dark souls and others which pretty much make up for the whole lore and created a new market besides the subgenre(some consider lore part of the soulslike genre, but imho that was just coincidental and the genre is only defined by the gameplay), what about cutscenes in games when they don't have button prompts? I'm sure i don't even need to mention examples here.
And if you want to look at what is the game that perhaps does of mixed genres and mixed media its defining factor, just look at the whole nier series, the hack'n slash and the waifus aren't everything in it without the massive amount of genre-shifts, (going even to textual adventures)lore, music, cutscenes etc it wouldn't be anywhere near as good of a game.
Yes, most players don't need a tangible incentive to enjoy games, but they probably need a tangible incentive to interact with content thats detached from the reason they enjoy the game
I don’t get this feeling at all. As said in the video, the presentation does a lot
@@FluffythePersianCat That's a really good point.
I agree. I find it does the medium a disservice if you are so hell-bent on only giving you 'tangible' gameplay stuff. Where I see this the most is in your average MMO where the notion of playing for fun takes 2nd place to I'm doing it for the reward where I'd argue the discovery/gameplay IS the reward.
In Elden Ring alone I spend 50% of my time analysing lore stuff, comparing wall textures and observing enemy behaviour from afar. I'm not getting a sword or something out of it and yet it's so satisfying. People have just no patience and use a lot as an excuse imho.
And to be more polarising, I thing our society has failed if you think anything text is something you should avoid.
This video really encapsulated my thoughts on stories in rhythm games, it's surprisingly broad
My game experience reading text in Tomb Raider and HZD honestly enhanced my experience playing the game. I love lore and there are so many times that I’ve gasped in shock when reading a particularly insightful text log. I love collecting every piece that I can.
With Genshin Impact, though, there’s so much text in the archives that I could read synopses of faster on the wiki that I usually don’t read myself. It’s very much framed as supplementary more so than the other games I mentioned.
Man I read and watched every single log for Control. The little Bureau of Control jingle that plays before every video still makes me get hyped for lore, and the SCP similarities were so fun to delve into.
Scanning in Metroid Prime games comes to mind as a great example of doing them well, often the text includes some hint or tidbit that's actually useful and being able to and kind of expected to read them right after you've invested some time on getting the info helps too.
Yeah, it feels like you've actively retrieved information rather than just having it handed to you out of nowhere.
really Love tis kind of videos ---
reviewing every game inside mechanics
I think a good example of reading and knowing key elements of the lore, is the souls series. There are many items that you can find useful if you spend a bit of time on the menu reading what it's for. They also tend to give you some information about it's significance in the world so you also get to know more about it.
Played through dishonored two recently. There's different types of texts to read. Notes and books. Books have world lore. And notes have lore or hints /secrets about the area. Usually a conversation about stealing gold, the combination to a nearby safe.
If I like the game's lore, then yes. Heck in games such as Metroid Prime I actively hunted down the written lore.
But if the game's story is meh, then no, I don't.
Metroid Prime also used the scan visor for puzzles and combat in a smart way. So it was common to read about creatures and objects in the world to find clues, all while getting world building mixed in.
Spreading the solution across different entries is a really cool idea that forces the player to _think_ about the game world detectively, thanks for mentioning it!
I had a similar experience when playing control (I highly recommend you give it a try!). At the start I read and watched everything, but then slowly stopped as the game progressed. Every different kind of collectible had its own reason for that:
1. The papers about the different enemy types just didn't feel like they held any valuable info
2. The tapes are just slightly extended versions of films that you can already watch in game when you find them. The extra parts are usually not really important
3. The story related notes I still think are kinda cool. They usually hold little sneak peaks and foreshadowing for the main story line. So when you always read them as soon as you find them, you will recognise a lot of the info that you'll be given a few rooms later through the main story. This did feel quite rewarding, and coupled with the fact that they are a mix of mysterious and entertaining documents, I thought it was quite an interesting mechanic. It just got a little repetitive towards the very late game. And as youll be told all the important content later anyway, so I stopped reading them over time.
I will say tho that I do recommend reading a good number of the story documents and to at least watch all the in-game tapes. It adds soooo much to the ambiance/vibe of the games and its world
Even though I dislike Deathloop, I still love the fact that they bothered to give you a summarized version of the notes and entries you find just so that if anybody is interested in it they can get the gist, while not have to kill the pace of the gameplay
I'm taking photos of various texts and logs in game and read them later when I have free time with great interest usually. While in game, even if I force myself to read sth, it's usually not fun
its been a while since i heard your voice, its good your back
I frequently find myself waiting until I have all of the readable pieces in a game and then googling a transcription of them all so I can have my text-to-speech program read them to me one by one. I don't love this approach because it doesn't let me get caught up in the gradual reveal of information, but it's a chore to look up the transcripts every time I find a new one.
I love the concept of additional lore texts, but I would really like if there was a way to have the PC, and NPC, or just a text-to-speech program read me each one as I find them and play them (potentially with a quick-bar of some kind like you mentioned). This way, you would really only need one actor to do the voice lines, and there would be no need for additional sound effects like an audio log might require, because it would be understood that the text is being read aloud like an audiobook.
I would probably read them more often if I wasn’t playing on the Switch and few games allow you to change font sizes. Also agree that text amount also affects chances that I will take the time to read or not.
A game that did this right in my opinion, was Uncharted 4. Reading the journal entries and notes about Henry Avery and the fall of Libertalia was super engaging to read about and went perfect alongside Nates journey to finding the treasure.
Yeah I agree I also thought it had good environmental storytelling as well which imo is more important than text or audio logs
That was actually some of the best in game text I've ever read, it just felt riveting it felt real or was perfect 4 uncharted I think it would work for tomb raider also
I think the Subnautica series have the best kind of text logs. Since a digital assistant reads the vital ones when explored, the signals get played out for you when received, alien dialogs are voices in your head and when you find a PDA you can both read it and let it play in the background as sometimes it will contain voice messages and conversations recorded and left for your group before the crash. Other than that you can scan everything you are exploring in the ocean. Usually scanning most of the species won't give you any information that you can't learn simpy by just playing the game (like how some animals behave or give you water etc.) that you might need to survive. However you need your scanner to explore and finish the game by unlocking blueprints, learning how to make/build certain things and scanning to learn about the lore of the old habitants which makes the story progress. This really incorporates the scanner into the game since it is NEEDED to finish a playthrough, and encourages you to scan and learn about the environment and most of the texts for the species, the texts contain cute little descriptions.
My favorite in-game reading is from The Elder Scrolls. They're optional and are unnecessary to beat the games, but they're varied in subject, some give you skill boosts, give map markers, some NPCs talk about them, and sometimes they start a quests.
I sometimes genuinely start up TES: 3, 4, & 5 to go to one of the book stores and find something to read. Other times I go on personal quests to find all the books in a set, even if I don't intend to read them. Sometimes you even find the authors of the books as NPCs or previously knew an NPC in older titles, which is great for immersion! The optional reading in TES are very much a part of the world, so it never feels like they break game flow, they're just like all the other mini games.