How Much Do We Charge? Tractor Side Hustle
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- You think you are making money with your tractor since you bring home a nice stack of cash but have you REALLY considered all the costs and time involved. Tractor Time with Tim and Agricultural Economist, Katriel dig into the details so you don't lose money.
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What a “Dynamic Duo!” You folks did a stellar job. I would also hope that your presentation will be seen by those who are seeking to hire work done, and give them a better understanding the costs of providing those services. Blessings!
When I was in ag management classes we called the cost of equipment ownership the DIRTI MFS, Depreciation, Interest, Repairs, Taxes, Insurance, Maintenance, Fuel, & Storage.
I totally agree with the prices maybe now people will understand why we charge so much. It’s hard to work for free, although I have done it several times throughout my career!
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This is an absolute phenomenal episode! Being in the green industry for nearly 40 years, it is so tiresome to try to explain the business end to all the newbies on the boards and pages. So many just want to generically ask. "How much should I charge for this?" I explain to them that you cannot just pull a number out of a hat or use other people's numbers. You literally have to jump to the other end of the equation and with backwards. In other words, figure all your costs, both fixed and variable (emphasizing ALL). Then, add on what one has to make to earn a living and pay the personal bills. Thank you for this episode Tim and Katriel (I hope I'm not too far off on the spelling). You both did an A1 job on the production!
Perfect on the spelling!
This is so true. Had an extended family member start mowing, thought I'd help him and me, and have him do my yard. I painted for myself for a few years, and mow lawns with a gentlemen in the summer, I've done the math. When it came time to price, he comes up with a number out of nowhere and I shoved another $30 in his hand at the end of rhe first mow and tried to explain it to him... He drove there, truck trailer mower, cut for almost two hours and was like well, 2 hours = $50... No friend. Your hourly rate isn't your rate, it's the economic gross cost of you being there. If you don't pay yourself that, no one is happy. Also, good customers don't mind paying a fair price. I've never had someone I wanted to work for balk over a good estimate. I have in the end charged less because I overestimated something, and the folks having work done needed it more than me, and I was happy to just get to the next job, which paid far better. This calculation can really illustrate the importance of assigning value to your labor and equipment. Try raising food money too and learn something... Farmers know.
Consulting with Katriel, love it! Thank you both for this and count me in also for wanting to have videos on the LLC and hiring an accountant aspects. Love having Katriel back and glad she is getting a much deserved break with dad and mom.🙂
This is valuable for anyone who is self employed. Know your numbers
I was the chief cook and bottle washer of a rural family practice clinic for 22 years. I am always amazed at how similar all business accounting turns out to be. You two did a phenomenal job in breaking down fixed and variable costs. The best advise you gave was get a good accountant. I think he or she should do both business and personal taxes and advise on both. Thank you both.
Great video you guys! I love how you approached these numbers. VERY helpful! And I’m impressed with Katriel. Very intelligent and well spoken. You must be a proud father!
You two are terrific! You explained in matter-of-fact terms a difficult subject to comprehend. Thanks for sharing. I've been looking and asking unsuccessfully for this information elsewhere on the internet for what seems like a very long time. Katriel "hit it out of the park" with her knowledge and ease of explaination. I enthusiastically vote for more such business-end videos with you and Katriel. I also encourage Katriel to pursue her business consulting endeavors. P.S.- I miss seeing Christy and her quick wit in front of the camera. We need all three of you. I imagine, in most cases, it is the wife who keeps the books, maintains the budget, and pays the bills. Christy's perspective would be invaluable. Thanks.
Appreciated the costs breakdown and the effort your family put into the video in and behind the scenes! Very cool!
Thanks for taking the time to put this (and all of your content) together. I enjoyed the "Consulting with Katriel" session.
Great info! Customers don't realize all the "behind the scenes" work that goes into a project. It is important to explain this to your customers so they understand the costs required to do the job 🙂
Thanks Tim and Katriel! I started my LLC a few months ago and I am still learning in the process. Your video was a great help! I truly appreciate your time and effort.
All the detail would drive me crazy such detail wow these are things most people don’t think about it’s a good thing you’re covering this Tim
Thanks Tim, Christy, and Katriel. There's always more to think about.
Thanks folks. I enjoy these type of videos as well as the tractor ones. I would like for you to expand on it.
This is so helpful and I'm grateful for your service to all of us! The spreadsheet put so much into perspective and it was much needed. Thank you again!
Consulting with Katriel, ha ha ha!!!
Great information, I had never thought it through so thoroughly. Very well done.
Wow this helps me so much. I believe your video, Don't price per hour. Helped me get a job that same day I have a bid. I completed the job yesterday and made out better than pricing hourly. I believe the customer likes to hear a price, not a price range. Please keep posting these types of videos in between your regular work videos. Thanks so much.
Thank you Tim, Katriel & Christy.. A very informative video.. You did a great job explaining things.. Have a great day..
One of the most underrated channels on CZcams. Great job, guys!
Fixed Costs, Variable Costs, Periodic (hourly,daily, weekly, monthly, annual), .....
Proper Accounting is the Main reason businesses succeed.
Thank you once again for the helpful information there will be a lot of viewers that may think that the business side of a tractor does not apply to them, but once people know that someone has a tractor, and the operating skills the request for use of the tractor will start coming in, which I suggest everyone watches Tim’s videos talking about the insurance aspect of using your tractor thank you for making and putting these videos on You Tube
Your numbers are very close to mine on these things and I was not as ......well scientific ( not sure if that is the right description but it is the best I have ;) ) . I wish that customers could understand this also that friends and family could understand why you do not want to just let them take the tractor for a day or two to do their own projects . I enjoy your videos , thanks for the time .
Well done guys. This was super informative and clearly you put a lot of time into preparing for this episode. Thank you so much!
Yes, we spent probably 36 hours between the 3 of us on this episode. Crazy amount of time!
I would suggest that you separate wages from profit. Business profit should be above wages and fixed overhead. The question becomes how much should the business make if it was paying an employee. I like to use a 1.25 to 1.50 multiplier so that $500 job would be $625-$750. This also provided some cushion if you run long or damage something.
This is awesome information for someone like myself who wants to get into this kind of work. Thank you so much to the both of you!
Excellent video Tim! Glad Katriel remembered to factor in your cheeseburger costs!
Thank you for the great videos about this, just started my own tractor business and both videos help a lot 👍
Great job! This synopsis works for any business idea. Very well explained 😊
This was a fantastic summary of costs that most people won't consider without experience
This was outstanding information to share! Great content!
Awesome video. You mentioned many costs I would have never considered.
I love seeing Katriel in your videos.
Tim, i find all of you videos interesting and informative, for that i would like to say thank you. Though i have never met you, but through watching your videos, you seem to be a great father and husband for that i give you a thumbs up. This world would be a much better place if there were more people like you. With all that said i would like to apologize to you for all the rude and hateful replies from some people that post replies to your videos. Thank you sir.
Respectfully
GT
absolutely the best videos on youtube... its impossible to watch his videos and not learn something... ive been farming and doing just about everything he and his family do on this channel all my life and i still learn some stuff every time... i believe ive seen each and every single video on the channel too.... i wish the world had more good people like this influencing others...
I found that video to be one one the greatest. I am in Ontario and run my electrical business. Many people don't know about your hidden costs. For me it is insurance, contractors license, mater Electrician license that has to be paid yearly. Along with my ESA charges. My Kubota tractor with backhoe adds to my insurance big time for digging. I usually charge a minimum of 4 hours . even if i can do it in your 2.5 hours. My material mark up is 20%. All the charges you pointed out are really true from accountant, fuel travel etc. I charge $ 25.00 to $ 50.00 just for my truck to drive to the site. I get 90% of the jobs I quote. Again thanks for this video. It should help anyone who is starting out. The most important thing is insurance. If you don't have and make a mistake you will lose everything you own. This message is for the ones who think they can make quick money without the insurance.
Hey Tim! I am in your neck of the woods! Thank you for putting this video out ! I wondered how to start biding jobs a bit north of you with my 1025R, this answered all the questions I had. Thank you so much for breaking it down. God Bless !
Great job Tim and Katriel!!!! Super great series!!!!
Great video!
Most people hiring work done look for the cheapest, it's our job to stay financially stable and provide for our families. As well as providing a service to the customer that will generate future jobs, either with that customer or future customers by the original recommending us for their project. Sure Billy with a backhoe can do the work but what happens when he breaks a window or hits a utility line?
Know your worth, do a good job, and provide a professional level of service for the customer!
Again great video, if nothing else, a great way for explaining things to the customer.
Thanks, I'm not ready to do this yet, but hopefully soon.
Great video explaining the breakdown of your hourly rate for tractor projects. I would like to start a side hustle using my tractor and wasnt sure on how to calculate what to charge.
Great video! Lots of questions answered! Thanks folks!!!
Hey Tim, the videos you've done regarding project estimates and then this one addressing operating costs have been a huge encouragement to me as I think about offering tractor services to customers. I'm also wondering if you have a video or would consider making a video discussing some good beginner services to offer. Maybe it could discuss how to grow into more services offered as well as talk about which services you see people need the most and also rate them in difficulty from beginner to experienced operating of the tractor. Just a thought. It would definitely help me out as I market which services I can and will offer, but I know there are other people and ideas out there that can and should come before a video like this. Anyway, have a great January!
Great information, thank you!!
Awesome Video, I wasn't far off using my "spit ball" calculations. Now thanks to you I'm going to start keeping track of my "net revenue" per hour by category.
Iv'e commented way too much on your channel but dude, Your relationship with your family so such a beautiful thing. I REALLY wish it was more common, We as a nation would be so much better off.
Appreciate the comments…and appreciate the kind words.
Yes, we a close family requires work. …lots of patience and forgiveness….but it is worth it!
Tim, Great video. Lucky for me I am retired but still want to help other veterans and people that may not be able to afford a contractor. This allows me to know what it should be and will make people aware of what I am gifting them. Thank you for all your video's. I had never sat on a tractor till 3 weeks ago. I have already fixed a private road and our driveway. Leveled out the back yard to make it possible to hang out around the fire-pit. Your videos were probably the most watched out of all of them. If you ever come to the Blue ridge parkway we are looking down on it from our new home. Stop in.
Cool drove through that area yesterday!
Nice break down
I had been doing a maintenance contract for years for a client until I worked out the numbers and saw how much it was costing me. I literally had to double my bid for this season to break even on it. Ended up losing the contract, but I’m no longer losing that time and money.
Great spreadsheet can’t wait to download and use. I’ve been looking for something to figure out my costs for detailing.
One thing you may have forgotten to add to these numbers is if you still owe money on your tractor or equipment or truck. The cost of the tractor, truck, and all equipment should be added to this equation as well. The customers should ultimately be the ones paying for all the equipment.
all that college tuition that you've been paying is finally helping out. I'm still waiting for mine to help me out
Yes Tim, please do a video on LLC's etal
Very interesting presentation. Thank you for sharing those information.
Excellent. I would only add an operator needs to know the ground conditions as well as his tractor condition. The biggest losses was giving a budgetary figure without visiting the job. Granted 90% of my work was subsoil, however just finding a place to park and unload was costly in time. Then having to clean the street of dirt or mud. Finally always have a rock clause to cover hitting rock, mud hole or un identified utility. Customer responsibility for mankind utilities on EVERY job. I have been set up by last week grandpa hit the water line, then I get to fix it. Excellent cost analysis. I usually explain the customer thinks nothing of paying $150 shop rate at the car dealership and you take the car to him. I am coming to you,
Great video, Tim. Good on you for putting all of that thought and math together and putting it on TU. I don't know if it's because I hit 50 this year but I don't want to leave the house for work unless I can make $1000 for the day. And I don't even do tractor work. I've been thinking maybe next summer having a little tractor side hustle for my son rototilling, maybe mowing, some grapple work, stuff like that. Will definitely take that into consideration when I teach him to price jobs.
Thanks Tim and Katriel.
I Enjoyed that !
It's shocking how the numbers add up! I dealt with this in our Millwork business, it was similar in many ways. We tried doing small jobs and eventually gave up on it, could not charge enough to make it work. We had to stick to larger projects.
I can imagine the customer thinking " There he goes with my $500 for a couple of hours of fun with a little tractor, $250 an hour what a great gig!!"
There is Tim thinking " I hope cleared my $25 per hour wage after expenses"
(Reality)
Excellent stuff, Tim and Katriel!
I'm not able to find this spreadsheet. Did the website or the location of this change. this is incredibly helpful
Great video. I have a question. If you were just starting out in a tractor side hustle but didn't have the money to buy more than two or three attachments, which three attachments would you start with
Excellent video, a lot of important information there, but the biggest thing to remember is get a good accountant. A good accountant will save you many times their cost.
Father Daughter Time with Tractor Tim Time
Very nice and Really informative
I don't plan on doing Tractor work for Hire but Your video really was helpful
That is why We bought Our Tractor so I could do the Tractor work
Like I did today moving dirt on one our properties that has a swampy front yard and spent 4 hours scooping dirt from the back 1/3 acre and raising the 100'x 15' driveway 6"
Now We know what is a far price when We do have to pay someone
Thanks
Thanks for the kind words. Yes, this episode was a complete family project. All 3 of us worked for many hours to put it together. I guess it will make for a good family memory.
Katriel was incredibly helpful.
Good video , I like the itemized breakdown. Good job guys. Have a Great Day, GOD BLESS
It would be good to do a video on what you look for when estimating the hours for bush hogging. Speed, thickness, density, low trees, logs on the ground, etc all go into the hour estimate. Getting confident and accurate in the hours required will help viewers bid projects and not hourly.
Alot of good information. This also applies to those that want a tractor for just their home farm. Alot of these expenses apply.
Side note. Wonder how many young adults factor in this stuff (fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc) when buying a new car or truck.
Unfortunately, virtually none! They don't even want to know what the price of the vehicle is or what it's going to cost them after all of the taxes, fees, and interest. They have been conditioned to just ask one question - what's my monthly payment?
Loved the ending. You two ROCK!
How about a video on the benefit of forming an LLC. - needed or not needed? Cost to establish and maintain? Pros and cons
Your numbers seem legit, for the 45hp tractor I run the tractor cost is AU$55/hr (~US$40), plus labor. (our diesel is around $1.42/g or 5.50/gallon). Good episode.
Excellent episode!
Very helpful! It's such a pain trying to figure out a price! Katriel was amazing! Great video and thank you!
lol, she makes the video. lol, the "sometimes" comment . lol
hahahahaha this was a great, great, great episode of "Consulting with Katriel" .
i can tell you we will miss her as her show breaks for college education. i guess we'll just have the watch the substitute "Tractor Time With Tim", until the really good show starts back up. lol hey maybe we will get Christmas specials of "Consulting with Katriel" .
hahahahahaha, so this is what mean in show biz when they say, "she stole the show", hahahahahaha
great job you two. and thanks for the information. very helpful.
great to see your daughter back around.
Useful session, to say the least. What a sharp daughter you have! Blessings galore.. she should get credit at Purdue for this project.
To insure commercial you generally need to commercial insurance a place of business. I do AC heating refrigeration renewable energy and there's a catch on that
This was a fantastic episode ! Very detailed and to the point?
Thanks Chris. We put a LOT of effort into this one. Wish we had counted the hours. We think 36-40 hours between the 3 of us. We started Thursday, then worked all day Friday and Saturday, finishing the upload after 11pm.
Definitely interested in more videos covering the business structure side of TTWT
This was an excellent explanation for our customers !
don't forget to add katreil's consulting fee into the annual expenses box... lol
Good info. Thanks.
Well done! Lafayette resident, factory worker, Benton County farmer, 1025r owner. Love your channel. Coffee sometime?
Absolutely!
Thank you TIM.
Your Daughter is such a SMART person for her age. I work helping out at a skills center for Highschool kids, that school district puts all the money into these skills programs. Kids that have a hard time at regular school. Some of the young Female blown away at how brilliant they are. Are skill set is in Firefighting training. One female I am so sure this young highschool girl will and can become a Paramedic. She will always challenge the guys, going above and beyond on exercise work out. Do more push ups, stay in push up position LONGER than the most mocho young guy. She is so smart just like your Daughter (Dad you should be very proud) my son went through this skills center in computer hardware Learning. Plus (a learning center helped) 3 students to one teacher. Anyway he now heads up the I.T. department at a local community college. One example I will give on RENTAL equipment over ownership is on my driveway replacement. The Rubber tracks spit in half (big rip) the contractor was setting grade. Remove dirt into my bucket on my Dynahoe-190 front bucket. It was a RENTAL. The company PAYED for the track change out. Not my contractor. He always RENTS all his equipment for cement work. He had 3 workers now standing, being PAYED not working. It was the middle of the day. So you just can't send them home. They continue to HAND shovel into my Dynahoe -190 bucket, till a new rubber track could be delivered by Rental outfit. It took the Rental guy, the three workers and myself to install a NEW track. The rental guy had to remove all the grease in the housing for track tension. Then all of us with big steel bars, moving new rubber tracks onto mini excavators. My TIME was just help, same with my personal Backhoe (no cost to contractor) just think if this was a homeowner that did not want hands dirty. Bitching about how long it takes to get a mini excavator up and operational again. I just think with the Home Depo Rental fleet with large amounts of Rental tractor and mini excavator plus having those great Dump trailers you can TOW behind your personal pickup. Now you ask why I Bought such a LARGE backhoe
. (19000 pounds) it's because it's my custom car-like thing. It's 1978. I feel in Love with it.
I wanted backhoe of my own. I don't do outside work with it. I always do FREE work with it. I have been asked by people trying to screw me. Wanting me to ROAD it to their home, not wanting to pay for Diesel. Just trying to pull one over on me. They all though I was STUPID. I just started bringing up all these costs, like your brilliant daughter talks about. And I demand a deposit of thousands of Dollars. They just get so angry
The Big one is (your backhoe just sits around are you not my friend can't you just drive it to my home) miles and miles away. I just went back too. You will give me a deposit of 2000 dollars for TRAILER................ Stop with the BS. I once had a so-called friend not even the owner of the property. Say why don't you take your Backhoe to so, and so property. It's so stupid to OWN it if you don't take it to his farm. If you are his friend. This is a property a hundred miles from my house. I even asked the property owner so and so said you wanted my backhoe at your property, it will cost you this much for the trailer and this much for FUEL. The guy was such a push over, he used all these excuses to say why he didn't want my backhoe after all. He just expected me to PAY for everything. He talked another person to bring his mini tractor like yours over to properly. Of course my friend NEVER paid the guy a Dime.I even had a supervisor at my work, tell me to take the city OWNED dump and trailer, pick up my backhoe and bring to his home for his driveway replacement. I took one stern look at him and said That is highly ILLEGAL. After that the supervisor stabbed me in the back( even said I was going to come into the workplace and SHOT everyone) have never talked about or brought up Firearms at the workplace EVER. He just LIED to stab me in back, because he knew it was illegal to put my backhoe on the city OWNED trailer, and I had stood up to him by saying "NO" but reminded him of how "ILLEGAL" it was. He would give me the crap work after that. Just the biggest crook that a local Government could have as a supervisor of work crews. He would always take home the portable cement tools, everything from the city he would use at home. Even fill his personal Diesel Pickup from the pony tank on the service truck. The city finally had enough with him. Every time there was a promotion he would always tell them. If I don't get promoted I will leave. They finally called his bluff. Said don't let the Door hit you on way OUT. The guy was the biggest
A- hole that I have ever worked for, but he knew how to please just the right person from above him. He only cares about himself never his workers.
This video was awesome. Thank you for sharing so much information. Though I am not looking to hire out, my ministry is to help others. I will be able to use some of this information to share with others the cost savings and expectations if they do hire someone. Thank you again for sharing your process and providing the spreadsheet to guide us...God Bless!
It is about the the boss showed up again! Enjoy guys!
I’m interested in further info as you said. This is good stuff.
This was an awesome video! We’ve all “been there done that” when it comes to underbidding a job. I find that the hardest thing for me is correctly estimating how long a project will take. I see a job and think to myself “oh I can knock that out in a couple of hours” then 10 hours later I’m just finishing up. Or, as it so often happens, the customer starts adding things along the way and wanting me to honor my original price. It’s one of the reasons I prefer to operate on an hourly basis. I tell the customer “you’re paying me by the hour so tell me what you want done and I’ll do it. If the price starts to get too steep I can stop at any time” that way I know I’m being compensated for my time. And they know that I’m not going to do a bunch of little odd and end jobs while I’m there for free. Just my 2 cents. Thanks for y’all input!
Did you see our video on the fixed VS. Hourly?
@@TractorTimewithTim yes sir. I sure did. Makes perfect sense what you’re saying. Aside from the extra stuff they want you to do once you quote them a price.
Stand firm. Or clearly state that it will cost extra.
Had it happen to me ONE time. After that, I learned my lesson.
@@TractorTimewithTim I like the response that "Chris from in the Woodyard gives. I'm not Monte Hall, we are not playing lets make a deal".
Eye opening video. You really need an accountant. You need to remember the cost of tires when dealing with land you don’t know. A nail in a rear tire that is loaded is expensive to fix.
Just ordered some isotunes with your discount code. Thanks Tim
Thanks!!
Katriel is over taking the show lol have a day love from TEXAS.
Great Vid Thanks !
Watched again - Thanks again! More vids on the business side please.
Good video. Good information.
Thank you for this great informative video. I am a veteran and have been considering getting into this kind of work. One thing I did not see you mention is the costs that are tax deductible. Equipment depreciation, maintenance, fuel, insurance, travel mileage, and so on are tax deductions at the end of the year are they not? If there are so many deductions how does this change the costs estimate and the profit predictions? Thank you so much for the great videos.
Thank you both for the speadsheet download. It's always great to check my math and know my costs. Very much appreciated!
Ok, so the download worked for you? Good to hear!
@@TractorTimewithTim yes all worked well!
Excellent. Suggestions for improvement welcome!
@@TractorTimewithTim the only thing I'd add is a separated rate for labor on the project verse the tractor labor rate. Example: I try to quote (in my head) a labor rate of xxx per hour and also I try to take note of how much tractor usage would be involved. If there's going to be a notable tractor usage I try to quote (in my head) the projected hours for that as well. Also... This is big, customers don't want the materials or trimmings from the job, and we landscapers have to find a home for that, we need to figure disposal into the costings as well in the estimates. Thank you and I hope this helps, remember other contractors/tractor guys: we need to have a comfortable profit margin so we can cover/rework a job when the customer is not happy. While we may not like this and the thought of redoing the work, the customer can do your reputation a lot of harm is you choose to ignore them. Tractor work I normally figure for double the billable labor rate.
Well, we have the labor applying to the entire time onsite…and we have a “percentage of onsite time for tractor use”…85% in this example. So, we are saying “pay wages for all the time onsite. Pay tractor costs only when tractor operating.”
We did not consider disposal. That one is huge. Takes a LONG time to haul stuff.
I used to add $150 per load, and I think I was cheating myself. Gets expensive FAST!
Great video! Really helps to understand what you are in for when thinking about monetizing skills.
Hey Randy! Almost missed who made this comment. Hope things are going well for you! Miss working with you!
Great video. Thanks for sharing . LLC video will be good 👍
Wouldn't it be cheaper to do an estimate using a cheap fuel efficient car.... set up the job and then execute. If you drive truck, trailer, and tractor to every estimate than your costs are definitely going to be higher. I would love the LLC video you guys mentioned. Great job altogether. This is tough to present in a logical manner and both you and your daughter did a great job.
Love to see a segment on the LLC
really gonna have some folks in the forums rethinking how they charge with this video. lol cant wait to share this video on so many forums.
Appreciate it Dave!
When you give the customer a quote/bid do you do something on a form or just verbal quote?
I use verbal. Most of my projects are small. If I were doing larger/longer 5 digit $$ projects I would do it in writing.