Why Did Palpatine Abandon the Venator Class Star Destroyer?
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2021
- The Venator Class Star Destroyer was at most 3 years old when they were decommissioned and replaced with the Imperial Class Star Destroyer. Why did Palpatine discard so many perfectly good ships?
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they symbolized the Jedi, rex calls it a Jedi cruiser in the episode.
Everyone calls it the Jedi Cruiser in the episode except for Rex's breakdown to Omega, I think
@@aneeshganti5625 I've even heard the channel himself call it a jedi cruiser in his older work about the venator
In and out of universe
Palpatine literally lived in the Jedi temple to mock them, using ships associated with them would have been more like him
He also called it a First Batch Venator class straight out the production line when he was explaining to Omega
When in doubt , blame Palpatine’s ego.
Or blame the Tarkin Doctrine...
Blame the stupid ass disney canon.
@@fanoboyo4559 can we blame both?
Sidious maybe a great manipulators but he's a terrible emperor, worse than kusco. Tarkins a great leader/fighter but he runs an army like a school bully and act surprised when the little guy fights back and doesn't see pot holes he's dug around himself.
Are you referring to Supreme Chancellor Palpatine or Emperor Palpatine ?
Those Venators deserved a lot better than what they got, scrapped
The ISD is more of a troop carrier and mobile command center than a warship. Its turbo lasers have enough fire Power to obliterate any fleet within seconds. The Empire has specialized carriers and anti starfighter ships for these roles. Of course these escort ships are never used, because the Empire would completely stomp the rebels and we cant have that in the disney canon.
Weren't they just the venators that were already damaged during the war?
And the Empire deserved a better Emperor.
@@Arkancide I would say the Empire and the Emperor deserve better, more creative and braver filmmakers.
@@shady83 Yeah idk why everyone seems to have missed that point, this episode is only a few weeks after order 66 so we likely havent even passed that ROTS end seen in the venator with vader and palps looking at the death star
Another explanation: The Venator-class Star Destroyers used to be call as the Jedi Cruisers by the entire population of the galaxy. And Palpatine wanted to get rid of everything related to the Jedi from the galaxy.
It seems so possible I’m suprised it isn’t canon, palps wanted to completely destroy the Jedi for both sith and for the political switch* waltzing around saying the Jedi were ass-hats while using the “Jedi cruiser “ would have been a goldmine for anti-empire propaganda, it’s the smarter idea by most sides. The only bad thing is that he scrapped them instead of selling them to buyers for crazy prices to fund the new armour as well, while selling the clone armour for high prices for funding the new destroyers
* is it called a political switch when a country changes there whole government system?
Bad idea
The more we think about it, the more the Tarkin Doctrine was absolutely the worst way to keep order.
Or Palpatine just wanna scrap them because they were a symbol of the Jedi and Clone wars that ravaged the Galaxy.
I'm not just talking about the Venator. Everything about the Tarkin Doctrine, ruling by fear and such, was stupid.
Oh yeah and that, it was pretty dumb, They should have just let the Venator more as a Support-Ship and not just a simple scrap metal after the war.
Palpatine should have instead have a Diplomatic Doctrine instead of A Militaristic one.
Well it works pretty damn good today in "the land of the free"
Intro: speak in unknown language
Audience: hmmm.... interesting
Sign of a stroke, isn't it?
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Lol
Clearly Yoda/Grogu native language
They’re converting him into a xenophile. We must stop this
Keeping them would have saved a lot of money needed for super weapons and other projects
Resources to.
Yes or no. Although venators are cheaper than ISD, but lacking enough space for retrofit or upgrade, large hangers bay give the enemy the opportunity to bomb inside and damage the ship easier could be deadly. Like the v-wings which lack of space for upgrading while the TIE has enough space to fit heavy cannons, shields and hyperdrive.
@@taticaldroid9288 Enemy bombers could only bomb the hangers. When the hanger doors are open. After they get past the venetors own fighters. through its aa dfenses. And past the venetors shields.
Not so. You'd need a capable destroyer fleet in case the enemy ever started to be bold and show up with actual firepower. The Star Destroyers were unmatched in a Destroyer role, so they in a sense they would win battles before they ever began.
I think a supplement of the star destroyers while maintains largely venators could have been effective
This only happened in Disney canon, though. In the old Legends canon, the Venators were sold off to private interests or were used as patrol ships by Moffs for their local sectors. Most Venators in Legends died the same way most ISDs did: when the Empire splintered into factions and they all fought over who gets to succeed Palpatine after Endor, these ships, just like with the ISDs, fought each other in a brutal civil war and destroyed each other in a fratricidal war that weakened the Empire as the New Republic rose to take its place.
I thought the Imperials only are retards in the disney canon?
Wont be surprised if some ventaors were sold off to private miltas in canon aswell
@@abraham2172 Yes and no. They're ruthless, but power-hungry.
Forget about that. In the MAW fleet right?
To be fair, most of those venators were in super bad shape so it might just be they were too trashed to actually be used behind scrapping.
Knowing the spiteful little Sith that he is he probably did it to get rid of the stink of the Jedi they were "Jedi cruisers"
Disney-palpatine is just ridiculous.
@@abraham2172 That is from Legends you imbecile 0_0
@@TheRezro Wow, why are you so aggressive? Need to compensate something?
@@abraham2172 Oh, no. I'm just average Disney hater aggressive. Whiny crybabies just lack of self-awareness here.
@@TheRezro Excuse me if I hurt your feelings. But if you dont want to hear people criticizing Disney, you need to tell them they shouldnt make such crappy movies anymore.
The reason that the Venators were retire was due to a variety of reasons:
1. It was from the republic not the empire and it represented the republic in many ways
2. It was widely associated with the Jedi - the same Jedi that attacked him. It wouldn’t have looked good
3. It had too many star fighters for what it was used for ‘peacekeeping’ - keeping them all fuelled and in running order would’ve been expensive and since clones were fazed out it would’ve been more difficult as most TIEs shared a similar control panel
4. It didn’t fit in with the Tarkin Doctrine
5)
the empire relied on nationalizing a lot of sectors & boisting the military industry, if they didnt need new ships, with new hangers, requiring new fighters etc. etc, they would'nt have insentives to build up kuat driveyards & rothana
Yep. I think that was it. His last shreds of sanity have departed.
Thanks, Disney!
For a moment, I thought you were talking about Allen in the intro :P
@@slavsquatsuperstar I was
Guys the star destroyers we see in bad batch werent just there from the end of the war, those were derelict and safe to say were abandonded there when they couldnt repair so they got scrapped. Remember this was a war and we see plenty of venators get disabled, now we know what yhe Republic did with ships they couldnt repair.
@@ChaoticMartian In Legends, disabled ships were melted and the ressources reused. Makes a lot more sence than just dumping such huge chunks of high quality steal somewhere to rot away.
Tarkin is secretly the most influential rebel, change my mind.
I can't because I agree
Tarkin was even more egomaniacal than Palpatine and his ego and overconfidence caused him to have some of the worst ideas in the star wars universe, not including the sequels, and refuse to see a better solution.
"Yes Lord Palpatine, the best way to crush these dissidents is by putting all of our eggs in as few baskets as possible. And to Ensure that every imperial citizen's quality of life will plummet under the new government."
Wall, he _was_ their most successful recruitment agent.
Allen learning new language? Maybe he's moving his ewok operations to the Outer Rim now....
I’m pretty sure Alan has slowly (maybe not so slowly) has slipped into madness over the years. Only one explanation can be given, he’s joined the dolphins
No, not Allen. If anything, those fishheads control his mind.
To even suggest such a horrid thing is treason. To the mines with you
Venator class star destroyer will live on best star wars ship ever
Agreed
Personal prefer the Providence Class.
@@BansheeNT-D the venator is much better if it was used as a carrier rather than a crusier it would have beaten any enemy ship
@@adeptuscustodies8203 Providence was an Battleship/Carrier. ^^
Nah champ, this ain’t it chief, you forgetting the slave 1?
Psychological: the Venator twin bridges reminded him of _Jar Jar Binks head._
Simple, it wasn’t triangular enough
Underrated comment. 😂
Lol not pointy enough
i've only recently noticed how you leave in those times were you might trip up on a sentence or misspeak and have to repeat yourself, and it has helped me a lot with getting used to feeling less embarrassed when it happens to me in person, thanks a lot for making your videos this way!
He's an alien! Get'im!
Also: Because since Day 1 Star wars, like most space operas, has been terrible with things like time frames and scale?
He’s under the influence of those dam dolphins
Wait ! Let me get my torch + pitchfork .
My question is: why are the Venators in such a wreck? They must have been on Bracca for only a few months, yet look like they've been there for years.
@Robert Kaevur I get that. But for the time period the Venators look far too derelict. Jedi Fallen Order's depiction of their condition on Bracca is a lot more appropriate.
It’s possible that the ones current,y on Barca might represent very early/prototype Venators that were retired early as better models came online.
@@jasonpeacock9735 Rex says in the episode that the venator they are on was one of the first off the line. So yea I can see these being some of the early ships made
@@jasonpeacock9735 Wouldn't that be wasteful from a logistics point of view? Why scrap the old models when you can fit them with the newer technology? Besides older model or not, extra firepower or extra starfighter carrying capacity is never unwelcome on a battlefield.
Dont bother bout that, I stopped wondering about the stupidity of the disney canon long ago.
If a venator had the amount of turbo lasers an imperial star destroyer has, then in my opinion it would beat an imperial star destroyer even though it’s smaller because it could overwhelm with it with its ships and guns
Goddam had a stroke reading this.
If its smaller than it cant carry as weapons like the imperial, and it's not only space on the surface it's the power from the reactor that wouldn't be enough to all of the turrets.
@@galadato7425 it has way more storage space than the imperial one
But it hasnt, becsuse its smaller.
@@thrawnedits5860 No, the ISD can carry much more troops and equipment than the venator.
Are we sure those Venator aren't ones that were lost during the war? Surely palpatine wouldn't be stupid enough to scrap all of them immediately.
I thought the same thing
You’re probably right we see imperial venators at the end of rots and the ones in bad batch have republic markings
Of course he would be that stupid. In the disney canon.
Yeah thats what they say in the epsiode, they say the one their on in particular is a gen 1 from the very beginning of the war. The rest are either rando non-republic ships or other very badly damaged venators
Yeah they were the first models as rex said.
" When Emperor *Palpatine* first started the Galactic Empire he inherited a *mess* that his predecessor, Supreme Chancellor *Palpatine* created."
Ight, that was incredibly well played. I lost it.
He meant valorum
@@laisphinto6372 But did he, though?
I mean, considering his humor, of course.
@@laisphinto6372 by 'mess' I believe he meant the clone wars and its aftermath which was indeed started by Supreme Chancellor Palpatine, hence Palpatine, as Emperor, inherited his own mess, it was a joke 😄
Except he didn't - he didn't dump all of them, he repurposed some and gave them that in that classic white SD look in the end of Revenge of the Sith when Vader looks at the Death Star with Palpatine. He must had the older ones dumped as they are too expensive to repair.
Whats really sad was that a good fleet for the Empire wouldve been the Venator, Acclamator, and the Victory class ships. The Victory class to me was the better bang for you buck it had more than enough destructive fire power, could be made cheaper and in larger numbers than the ISD and required such a smaller crew. To be honest Tarkin beileved so heavily that you couldnt patrol enough of the Galaxy that he made it so that was infact a reality. When honestly the Imperial Navy couldve been so much bigger. But thats just how i see it.
I thought it was because those hangers were impractical as hell. Every time they had to retreat, I always wondered why the voltage rose didn’t take the opportunity to dive bombed or expose hanger and cripple the ship.
You won't see it in the clone wars that never showed a straight loss on the republic side
They where Ray shielded and cab block shots and missiles the shields could also be lock so no not really
weird that they scrapped them so fast. My guess is that they were old or damaged ones, and there were still active ones
I agree, these were probably damaged during the war. ISD's aren't a thing yet. We see light cruisers are still in use post clonewars, but I doubt the empire is using just light cruisers
Any Star Wars youtuber: *losing views*
Them: “I’ll make another Venator video”
When Allen said "babbaglabbababbaglaglabbabba" at the beginning I really felt that
Same, so inspiring
Hahaha oh god that intro was fantastic and totally had me off guard.
I was in the middle of eating some sausage stew, my attention turned to my food. I hear Alan and look up to see his face.. Doing that. I nearly choke on my food whilst laughing manically
Alan! You should do a 10 reasons to why the IG-88 droid was the best droid or 10 flaws it had in its design.
One is obviously the bomb in its chest.
Just wanna say, I really enjoy your content, thanks for making it!
Palpatine is like all other dictators once had power he just enjoyed life with his unlimited powers and started making bad decisions and let his military do whatever they want because he could care less
Thanks for the update
Great video as always!
The venators were pretty damn good
Honestly, a proper mix of venator and imperial star destroyers would have been nigh invincible.
Or, like many real-world examples of ships built to do several different jobs at the same time, it could have ended up worse than either. For instance, installing turbolasers would have required a bigger power plant on board, which means less room for fighters, and you also need crew to maintain the turbolasers, meaning less room for crew for fighters. So the ship is either more crowded or made bigger, and then it loses maneuverability. Various features have various requirements, and when those conflict with each other the result can be a very poor compromise.
Great video and very informative as always. Hope your doing good btw man, love your videos.
the Venetars suffer from "wasn't in the OT" disease
Palpatine: I must keep biggering! DO IT! KEEP BIGGERING!
Despite the Venator being great for the early Empire's needs, it was never going to survive long without being incorporated into personal fleets. The Venators were a symbol of the Republic, Jedi, and the Clone Wars. All things the Empire had to quickly remove from the minds of the population.
The vinegar still soft service in the Imperial Navy even by the time of the destruction of the first Death Star but they were mostly used in poor Backwater planets of insignificant value
Love the gibberish at the beginning, completely unexpected and had me laughing for 5 minutes
"The US has 50 year old ships in service"
Canadian military: Hold my beer
Canadian military: that young? how quaint.... kindly pour me another beer.
@@themittonmethod1243 indeed my good man
I noticed a while ago that the twin bridge design of the Venator makes it look a little like Jar Jar's head from some angles, and now I can't unsee this.
a few good reasons:
Symbol: it was called "Jedi Cruiser", which is bad optics when you named the Jedi traitors and want to make them enemies of the people.
Symbol 2: The ship was a lot less durable and individually threatening than the empire wanted, and the ISD fit this symbolic role more.
Crew count: The ship required a very large crew, as well as it's main way of attack(fighters and bombers) requiring a lot of crew. An Imperial star destroyer could at the very least save a bit on crew by moving the offensive weapons into a heavily armored and shielded frontline battleship, even if there were material damage the loss of life would be less and smaller threats would be less likely to cause replacements to be needed(corvettes could rip through multiple fighters, but would do nothing to a star destroyer).
One reason that could be why the venator class was brought out of service was during the Clone Wars it was a symbol of Hope a symbol of freedom and that is something that Emperor Palpatine did not want people to think, he didn't want them to think that they were going to have hope and freedom
Another great breakdown of why it happened, & it's something that I'd never considered before.
Alan, were you in the US Navy ?
I’ve heard many years ago of a story about a company during World War II that was supplying cylinders and it turned out that there was corruption within the company that the cylinders were being sent to the aircraft factories were way out of tolerance and they would’ve only allowed the engine operate for a short amount of time before catastrophic failure leading to quite possibly killing the pilot in the process. Several individuals higher up knew about this but didn’t care because they were just interested in the profits from wartime production!
Wow, I hadn't watched any of your videos in a couple weeks and the intro really caught me off guard lol.
Palpatine: We need a new line of ships, give me some ideas!
Tarkin: Perhaps we can use giant, super-expensive and very inefficient ships in the new order! Ones that are meant to fight giant fleets and not swarms of fighters!
Bevel Lemelisk: What about a moon-sized battle station that can blow up planets?!
That one intern: We could just keep using the Venator. It's worked pretty well so far.
Palpatine:
Intern:
_[Intern was not the Imposter. 2 Imposters remain.]_
2:44 lmao that is so funny
There were a lot of things that happened to go right for the Allies to win WW2, many many scenarios where it could've gone the other way, but it's awesome to see you bring up America's manufacturing, I think it's often overlooked. Great videos man!
6:20 had to pause it for a sec because that forteress in that pic caugh my attention and ffs it's Namur's citadel, i knew i saw that before xD Every morning even. Didn't know there was a pic from that.
2:44 I love that joke.
"Emperor Palpatine inherited the mess created by his predecessor Supreme Chancellor Palpatine."
They were still used by the empire, its just their production was halted when the clone wars ended. I doubt they would suddenly scrap them all when it would take years to build the new ISD's.
the intro was the most informative part of the video
Imagine if the rebellion got a hold of a venator class star destroyer
You do in Awakening of the Rebellion(a mod for Empire at War), The Liberation. Rahm Kota's flagship
@@generaljimmies3429 ohh cool
@@babyeliascookie Basically Kota swiped as many turbolaser guns from the Empire as he could find and bolted them on to the Liberation.
The Liberation can actually outgun an Imperial 1 Class Star Destroyer.
@@generaljimmies3429 They better have buffed up the reactor output, then.
@@Spudtron98 I would assume so, since the Liberation has additional Turbolaser emplacements bolted on to the hull.
love that lego tie microfighter
Hey gen tech, if you haven't already have you considered doing a video on the grey force users?
Another thing is that going by legends, the Sith were the ones who used diamond shaped ships. They were to strike fear. It was the republic who used the hammerhead and scythe shape. Thin vertical ships. For a republic navy to go to Sith designs would be very strange so the venator and acclimators were step ships before the classic Sith large imposing ships. Sidious and Plageus had been long planning this; ship designs were definitely sent through intermediaries to Kuat and other designers. Though that is through legends.
The love the venator, it can even land on a planet's surface, unlike the imperial star destroyer
The empire could've have kept it as a carrier ship.
Jay is such a good guy, he really cares about his audience. GodBless man
Because they needed to to follow the original trilogy.
The Venerators were mostly "wartime" construction, quickly produced. So, quality control might not have been everything it should have. Once you add in the battle damage to some units, it might be better to scrap and replace entirely than pay for a refit.
That opening 🤣
They got rid of the Venators because they couldn’t show hundreds, or thousands, of starfighters on s re-enactments at once, this is the same reason why in the Clone Wars series you might have 3-6 Venators in a fleet, each capable of holding up to 420 Star fighters, but each fleet tended to launch a total of twelve fighters or bombers.
The Venator would have been a great ground support Star Destroyer, as it could hundreds of fighters, bombers and transport ships, as well as can carry a large number of troops to use as a reserve, or as a safe spot to rotate units for R&R before redeploying them in the field as needed. Basically they could be used as mobile space stations to support ground operation, or even protecting a point along a hyperspace route, as not many vessels would be able to withstand say 250 bombers and 150 fighters. Honestly, with the numbers of starfighters this vessel could field, I’d even say remove all the heavy cannons on the ship and just cover it with anti starfighter weapons, then carry an even higher percentage of bombers
The best intro ever!
What the flying f**k was that introduction?! I love it!
The Venators on that planet likely where crashed there after the war due to being both the oldest hulls (ie seeing the most combat) and likely where not upgraded to the speculated “Venator-2” standard that incorporated the smaller secondary hangar door.
Most CZcamsr intros: Hey guys welcome back don't forget to subscribe let's jump into the video
Generation Tech intros:
He created a Littoral combat vessel before it was uncool
No one:
Plants vs zombies guy: 0:00
I could imagine if Thrawn had free rein over doctrine. I could imagine something like this. A task group system. Keep some of the Venators as carriers, loaded up with TIE defenders, TIE bombers, and troop transports as well as garrison storm troopers. Build Imperial star destroyers, or something similar, for escort and to counter capital ships, and Arquitens class light cruisers as picket ships and for star fighter defence. Imagine a task group of 2 venators, 4 ISDs and 8 cruisers. You could send it anywhere and have the flexibility to deal with just about any threat in space or on the ground.
That beginning should be used in every video… on CZcams
True
I dont think those star destroyers we see in bad batch were newly parked, remember this was a war and we see plenty of venators get disabled or destroyed so its safe to say the one in bad batch is one of them. We see at the end of ROTS they were in use for some time after the movie.
The Venator is my favorite ship and it is kind of sad that the rebel alliance didn’t use it but I understand the Venator would have not been useful in their ongoing war with the empire
Also, in the Clone Wars, most capital ships were lost to enemy capital ship action, not fighter/bomber attacks. Thus, Tarkin saw this as their weakness and took the lesson from the war, focusing the new navy on direct capital ship firepower instead of relying on a fighter force. What he failed to realize is that the next war was fought against insurgents, not a standing army.
Officially the earliest I've been here
the first few seconds caught me off-guard. I thought he was having a heavy stroke.
Allen should really consider resuming doing narration with his faux Morgan Freeman voice...
Do you see any parallels between the US shift to the modern super carrier from the cheap. mass produced Essex class of WWII and the Empire's shift from Venator class to ISD?
Gerald Ford Carrier with 2 nuclear reactors powering it go BRRRRRRRRRR
Thought maybe I was the only one that does weird stuff like that,,,,, feelin a lot better about life right now! ✌🏼
i completely agree with what you said in the first 10 seconds of the vidoe
Hey Alan make a video on the venator vs lukerhulk and all they strengths and weaknesses tell us which ship is better and why
0:00 well said my dude 👍
I miss the old canon reasoning for the huge Imperial star fleet. Even though I wasn't a huge fan of the Von themselves.
intro translation: "Hi, friends! Welcome to another episode of Generation Tech, My name is Allen."
Venators are excellent escorts for Imperial Star destroyers. Even full of TIEs, they are a great counterpart to an Imperial Star Destroyer. They fulfill the role of a Gozanti, or Quasar, while packing armor, shields, and firepower on tier with a frigate like the Munificent.
Slap some more point defense on them, and you have a match made in Heaven.
I find the scrapping of Venators foolish, in-universe. Likely, given the Empire has virtually limitless manpower, as evidenced by the TIE, older vessels would be relegated to Outer Rim deployments. Improper usage, sure, but improper scrapping that leaves older vessels available for outside forces to reclaim? Palpatine wouldn’t be so stupid.
Coming from a masters level history student, I love that you mix real history with star wars. It just makes more sense when you explain events in star wars with real world events
It also helps make the Star Wars story a bit more credible, by pointing to how similar things have happened in real life. Policies and politics tend to be overlooked in many pieces of fictional world building. They could have defaulted to "Because the Emperor wanted it so", but it's better if it happens as part of a policy with a different goal than just swapping the ships just because.
I was NOT fucking prepared for that intro
The Venator and the imperial-class star destroyer would be a really feared sight.
The length of the venator has to be on purpose. That’s the number of USS Arizona casualties on December 7, 1941
Gotta respect that this legend legit turned into Crazy Dave from Plants vs. Zombies.
Best. Intro. Ever.
You know you've been here too long when the intro makes sense and seems normal.
The big thing, is that the Rebel Alliance didn't use them, either. Which suggests a great deal of flaws, not mentioned in this video...
Pretty hard to get them without being noticed. Until the Mon Calamari brought their cruisers in, the best ships they had were usually stolen. Plus a Venator takes a LOT of manpower they can't afford just to crew it. Easier to stick with hit and run tactics using smaller ships.
@@buttahXD Which is why they vanished so quickly. They were built to drain Republic resources. All those personnel crewing that ship could crew... how many others?
Palpatine deliberately hamstrung the Republic during the Clone Wars.
The Rebels had a hell of a time just pulling Y-Wings out of reclamation yards. Entire Venators would have been a right pain.
@@Spudtron98 Yes, but it makes you wonder about parts. Nit saying it was possible, but getting a turbo laser or two, or other parts could have been more possible.
Also, the development of the B Wing bomber is due to a need to take on capital ships, while lacking the capital ships to go toe to toe. Endor was really the first true space engagement.
Sometime later, during the construction of the second Death Star, Venator-class Star Destroyers still remained in active service to the Empire, where several were used to protect the Sanctuary Pipeline leading to the Endor system and the Death Star.
canon not being consistent on Venators retirement as always
Where did you get that information?
@@ShadowReaper-pu2hx some random 2015 magazine
@@goodmind4940, ok, how do you know it’s Canon?
Venators were fast and quick, to protect troop transport ships. Good for campaigns to seize back planets held by the separatists. The empire needed larger troop ship primary to occupy planets
I had to back it up a second when you said Emperor Palpatine inherited that mess his predecessor Supreme Chancellor Palpatine left him. Hilarious lol
I rewatched the intro about 5 times Lmao
the lease was up palps is a smart man lol