Tom Warrior talks H.R. Giger and the goal of heavy music | Red Bull Music Academy
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- čas přidán 6. 03. 2017
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From a bunker in Nurensdorf, on the outskirts of Zürich, to the main stage of Wacken Open Air festival Thomas Gabriel Fischer has lived through the highs and lows of heavy metal. The man whose guttural singing had a profound effect on the vocal stylings of death metal is today regarded as a pioneer for his work as part of Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Apollyon's Sun and, most recently, Tryptikon.
Faced with resistance and rejection from the start, Fischer nevertheless pushed on and found an early supporter in fellow Swiss artist H.R. Giger, who contributed a painting for the cover of the band's 1985 album To Mega Therion. Giger's interest in the band led to a lifelong relationship between the two and Fischer continues to work with Giger's estate.
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__________________________
TOPICS:
5:16 - Forming Hellhammer
9:00 - “Let's do a demo.”
13:47 - First reviews
36:23 - H.R. Giger
50:22 - The goal of heavy music
MUSIC:
1:04 - Hellhammer - “Blood Insanity” • Video
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You can read more on Tom Warrior here...
www.redbullmusicacademy.com/lectures/tom-gabriel-warrior-lecture
I rather not
@@hierarchyofscares 😁
Tom has a very humble and realistic view of his success. He is not arrogant, egotistical or self-centered. He is still amazed at his success and very appreciative of his fans. This is what the majority of famous celebrities, musicians and sports athletes are so seriously missing...HUMILITY. They are arrogant, vain and self-centered. They forget who makes the famous...the FANS.
Thank you Tom for being a real man.
Amen to that!
bullshit
@@Mikau-gb8uo And what exactly did he say that it's not true?
This guy is such a great human being... I'm so much more inspired just to be better
I met Tom 2006 Celtic Frost tour in Cincinnati Ohio, and I never met anyone so humble, and passionate about everything he told me.. He listened and gave such good advice, then to my astonishment, before we parted ways, he took a knee and bowed his head to me!!! All I could do was the same for him in return, then he wrote his address down for me to send letters... Tom Warrior is the real fucking deal and a heavy metal pioneer who gave birth to this kind of music!!! My music wouldn't sound like it would without his influence!!! Like I've said before, riffs with attitude!!!!!
Fucking awesome. I'd be so lost for words.
Riffs with attitude…fuck yeah bro can you send me some of your music? I’m writing music in that same spirit that Tom warrior plays in, trying to recapture that passion and energy
@@norwardradtke1361sounds awesome!
I was a teenager when I first heard this music. Now a senior citizen. But I enjoy watching these interviews . He was always very humble.
🙋 I was! ⚡⚡⚡⚡
"There is no excuse for how we are treating our planet and our fellow living creatures" I couldn't agree more Tom G Warrior, I was also an absolute outcast in highschool. I sat alone outside every day for lunch. Used to listen to my Megadeth CD on lunch period back in 92 since no one would talk to me anyways. Thanks for sharing this video.
He was talking about animals bro!
@@jol9178 lmao
As was most of us
That's a large part of why real metal fans are so passionate about this music - it embraces the outcast & reminds us that we are far from alone in our feelings of alienation. This music feels like it somehow belongs to our own special group & gives us a feeling of belonging & being part of something bigger than ourselves.
I'll never forget that feeling of persecution & hypocrisy of being in a Christian school in the late 90s & having my Sepultura CD being confiscated for it being 'worldly' (never mind the anti-war & environmentally conscious lyrics) yet it was perfectly fine for the chicks to be crazy over the Spice Girls & dress like sluts.
I like how his voice regains quality with his engagement i topics. Maybe the whiskey, but I like it.
this guy is a legend along with bathory and venom love you tom your place in metal history is complete
Venom are just comic Punks,Hellhammer is real!
@@rainerkornmusic ..To each their own....most would disagree. Venom were the innovators of underground music. A big reason that Death,Massacre,Hellhammer,Possessed,Bathory did this style of music.
@@rainerkornmusic Celtic Frost is Real
@@thebannanaslugs2300 Only death is real
@@rainerkornmusic lmao tom was strongly influenced by venom kid, show some respect
I don't understand these comments about the interviewer. Sure, he's not perfect and may be a bit irritating sometimes. But he's a passionate and sets a good mood for this interview which looks more like a personal discussion. As a result, Tom answers a lot of interesting and inward things. Pleasant to watch and listen to.
Yes, respect is due to the interviewer of course. Both sides of the coin situation. Because the interviewer has ties, and on the other side the fans are really passionate hahahaha. What can you say, life and human nature
Even if the interviewer is awful, it's just nice to hear Tom speaking about himself and his beliefs
This was great...I learned a lot about Tom from this, and he makes some very astute points about music today versus the "real" music from back in the late 70's/early 80's. When he said "....even punk nowadays is fuckin' designed, what's wrong with people?". How true is that. Music today, because of the of accuracy of computers, doesn't have that feeling like it's almost off the rails. Instead it's completely predictable and boring. Even bands like The Rolling Stones and New York Dolls had this feeling like you never knew if they were on the verge of completely fucking the song up or playing a brilliant version....it was like standing on the head of a pin, it could go anywhere.My buddy and I were lucky enough to have met Tom and Martin (R.I.P.) in Calgary in '07, and they were very nice, well spoken and very generous with their time. We told them how this was our 2nd time seeing CF play, the first time being their first North American show, the WWIII festival in Montreal on Nov. 30th, 1985, which was one of those once in a lifetime shows with an amazing line up for that time (Nasty Savage, Possessed (first Canadian appearance), Destruction (first North American appearance), Celtic Frost (First North American appearance) and Voivod. It was a great experience getting to speak with them and I'll never forget it. I hope Tom keeps making music for years to come. We need people like him to keep the "new school" in check.Thanks for posting this.
Damn, Tom G. Warrior is not just an awesome musician, he's an awesome person too
I've only listened to Triptykon and I've never watched an interview, so I'm watching this to see if I like him as a person as well as a musician. I'm pleased to see how genuine, nice, and humble he is.
So many good points on his part. Compassion for animals, admiration towards art. And YES, heavy music should not be flawless, it kills the passion. In the words of Beethoven: "To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable!"
TOM WARRIOR thank you very much for your powerful music and for you love for animals. I do listen to Celtic Frost since 1987, I have 49 years old now and still listening to CF and Triptykon too. "Into the Pandemonium" is my pearl.
Someboby get him a tea. Even mixed with Redbull.
TGW is just a legend
I met Tom in Denver ,years ago on the last Celtic Frost tour ... I will never forget how humble and intelligent he was .and he really was a huge influence to me in my metal journey ... I hope to converse with you again someday brother ,you and Martin will always be legends to me !!
Very nice to hear Tom G. Warrior talking about all this stuff, he made very important contributions to metal music, great guy.
Love Giger AND Celtic Frost....so great to hear Tom's side of their relationship...
This is such a great interview man. Real history here. Thank you for uploading.
Warrior is one of the best! I remember copping that Hellhammer back at trip west in Chula Vista Ca circa ‘84 I would see Celtic Frost soon there after Voi Vod opened
I saw them on that tour in Seattle at the Moore Theater....awesome...!
Creative,Appreciative, Honorable,Loyal, Passionate,Humble, Wise,need more people like this in the world.
ginger tea. fastest cure for raspy voice. Great video, by the way. Monotheist is a brilliant album, such a dark ominous journey from start to finish. 27:30 great to hear that he is spreading awareness about animal rights issues!
I really can relate to what he had said about modern music as well as what he likes to hear, "some dirt on the music' hopefully I quoted that right. What I believe him to be a stellar human. He spoke passionately about the people he's worked with and carries them close and he would not be where he is without them,,respect for this interview, thank you.
I love his comment on hearing perfection in passion
an absolute legend! musicians all over the world (any style) could learn a whole bunch from this man. he’s on top of the pile. massive inspiration. the coolest of the cool. all hail tom g warrior!
That Hellhammer Bunker, I think it's called Grave Hill, must've been a very magical place to be!
Yep, it's Grave Hill. That was his very first band too. They didn't record anything though
I just saw this for the first time, and I must admit, sadly, that we (i) get a preconcieved notion of how people must be, for instance an iconic extreme metal musician, must be a jerk, or something like that. Tom G. impresses me as a very humble, thoughtful and kind person, somewhat taken aback by some of the questions asked him, but answered with grace. He is an example of a "star", who is more or less a normal person, not a arrogant, belligerent asshole, that hate their fans, like most of Hollywood, and a lot of the 'Popular" recording industry. You have a new fan, Mr Warrior!
You're an awesome dude for being open minded!
Take care man:)
Back when I was in school, the underground music was all the rage and All that mattered to all the Kool people!! 🎸🔥🤘⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡🙋😁
Tom showing the same bloody mindedness that has made HH and CF legends. All power to him.
After first hearing Morbid Tales in the early 90's, Celtic Frost were my fav band and 29 years later they are still my fav band.
I can relate to a lot of the things Tom experienced. Not his band experiences but his personal ones. The more I read and listen about him, the more I am convinced that he's one of the most humble and down-to-earth guys in all of metal. Absolutely zero rock star attitude or thinking that he's above everyone else. Huge respect for him. Celtic Frost and its other incarnations(HH/Triptykon) are amongst my most favorite bands ever.
One of the most humble humans beings I've ever met.
@@Windznite I envy you. Wish i could meet him. Could you say that the things i wrote were valid for him? What did you talk with about, if its ok to ask?
Hail Tom G Warrior. An inspiration.
I have to agree. I am considered an old fart but I knew times when music sounded more raw and way more alive. No disrespect to younger musicians. They are still keeping the genre alive.
One of my first metal bands I followed. First band to incorporate brass into metal music
I wish I'd live long enough to imagine a coop album between Tom Warrior and Kevin Heybourne. Stuff of legends it has to be.
Iron Tyrant i think tryptikon is more boring and simplistic than monotheist, tom warrior must collaborate with sunn0)) and earth.
@@ddsssaMonotheist is brutal and heavy. That's my opinion anyway. Sounds better during winter
wow man Tom is thinker, he must be asking the exact same questions that I do when I talk to myself. I have severe depression and anxiety and I have spent thousands of hours looking inside, and having compassion for all people and animals, feeling like it is me carrying the world and its problems are my fault. feeling ashamed and embaresed about our species thinking we are better than animals, like our lives matter more. I wish we could all meditate and feel the pain of the outcast. It seems as though Tom could feel the same
TheDarquon you spoke my inner thoughts as i listened for the first to Tom speaking about his feeling and thoughts about his music and Society and Life in General. Wow he just said "I sound like Lemmy" And he is right. Ha Ha
seek love and the negative thoughts of life will get lighter with the day. Was in the same depression pit as you and I was close to being suicidal, then I found love
@@shagstars I have been in a similar ditch the past 2 years. I've always been a huge empath & depressed, but personal circumstances caused me to hit an all time low in recent years. I haven't sought therapy & choose not to be on any meds. And what you say is true for dealing with it. A person's outlook can change if you seek out the positive & try shut out the negative. It definitely gets easier to cope. Not everyone can do this on their own though.
The sad fact is that no matter how you or I feel or go about our daily lives, whether improving them through doing charity work, finding love or smoking a joint & suddenly feeling better with life & all in love with the world, the reality is the world is in a sorry state & there's not much we can do about it. I mean yes, we can all play our part to improve it, but the cold harsh reality is that this planet would be better off without our species. Of course there are great human beings around & I mean no disrespect to them, but humanity as a whole is flawed & self destructive. The fact that we're in 2022 with war & poverty still existing proves this. Nobody should be able to turn a blind eye to this, everyone should actually be depressed if we're honest with ourselves.
@@Sean-fv4wi The problem is more evil and deeply rooted than Just is humans as a whole. The rich cults are the ones causing wars and shortages, outbreaks ect.
Good to see a musician who, with age and experience, imparts a ton of wisdom. I'm not a metal fan in particular, but there was something about Celtic Frost music that I really identified with.
Most brutal,creepy guitar tone ever created...absolutely brutally awesome!!
The interviewer is no idiot. He's Ian Christe, who wrote a fantastic book that obviously some here should read. Yeah he speaks slowly, but knows his shit, and has a show on XM Radio Liquid Metal. He's also from Switzerland, and is friends with Tom. Give the guy a chance.
here here!
The guy sounds so confused to even speak a rational thought. WHat is it DRUGS?
Yeah he might have written some decent books but the wheels fall off here as an interviewer
Nothing was more metal in '85 than CF.
JACKSON AXE To Mega Therion is still the heaviest album out there. It's real, unlike all the try-hard bullshit in 'extreme metal' these days.
..I dunno man..Metallica, Slayer, Exodus, WASP, Kreator, Bathory etc all put out some great albums in '85 too.
@Peace Dweller You think Metallica and Wasp are heavier then Celtic Frost?
@@outis439-A good point
@@outis439-A wasp quite heavier in troubadours days .
And In the demos , as Sister in 1976 even in look package , you can feel the early black metal screech and stuff in that ..
I’m 7 years younger than Tom, but feel exactly the same about heavy metal.
Apocalyptic Raids made a big impression on me and a small group of friends in the early 80s. He's right everyone hated it - especally the traditional metal crowd. There were some that wanted that other world that Hellhammer provided.
That "interviewer" ruined everything. Tom is an absolute legend, and to see him struggle during this lecture because of his health and come through the other side flawlessly is worthy of the utmost respect.
The circumstances had more to do with it. The interviewer was almost forced to do more talking due to Tom's voice. Tom would've talked more had he not been ill. So the interviewer took up the slack by babbling a bit more than he needed to. A great watch either way.
What a wiseman, i celebrate his catalog of music.
Yes, a true artist! He has my full respect more than others ,cause he lives that music
He's no Michael Bolton, but what a guy
@@anthonybernero9720 LOL!
Tom is an incredible interviewee, such honesty and insight. Superb.
They say, he's a nutcase, yet this interview is very entertaining in a good way, and I'm happy that we share the same thoughts about animals. Thank you, Tom!
Now who says he's a nut case?
More than likely , I'm guessing, its people who are not artists eh? As the ol' saying goes.
I was happy too have seen a Celtic Frost concert. Did meet Tom , he was very polite & humble . He spoke of a few things of his opinions that were quite extraordinarily a bit subjective, fair, and too a good point. In my experience he was as more serene than most .
Tom's totally right - most of these newer metal bands may be good technically, but they don't have any passion, intensity, soul or originality. And he's totally right that the only good newer bands are retro classic metal and stoner metal bands who are recreating the sound and style of 70's and early 80's bands. Mastodon is one of the rare examples of a newer metal band who brings something new to the table and does it with rawness, power, passion, intensity as well as great songwriting and musical ability.
But I'm 48, so maybe I'm just old too.
What do you mean by "newer" exactly anyway? Five Finger Death Punch? Or Septicflesh? Suicide Silence or Insomnium? There are amazing bands that play with a lot of passion, but like always, you have to dig through the crap first (if it wasn't obvious, FDP and Suicide silence).
I am 51, and I totally agree. Mastodon and Dystopia are the only bands I can care about today. And Voivod, of course. There is no really new, groundbreaking genre anymore. We live in a stupid void. I miss my youth so bad.
@@tolvana
Never heard Dystopia.
@@MoonOvIce
List some.
@@hinjurock I think labels like nuclear blast, spv or bands like metallica or kreator ruin the musical landscape with metal cliches. For wariior and muscians Punk were raw and crucial. Production is a factor that affect negatively the agressive sound of bands. In the opposite face you could listen this band.
czcams.com/video/d0J0P9k8thM/video.html
Its great to get these pwrsonal insights. I highly recommend Tom's book Ony Death Is Real where he discusses those early years even further. The interviewer does a good job and is very knowledgeable. Which makes me wonder why he wants to look like he jumped off of a farm tractor. But that's his business. This is a great clip and a great interview.
I didn't realize H.R. Giger was an outcast. His Alien creature was something else . As little kids often taken too the theater, by my family . We enjoyed those movies. Thank you for this enlightening little stuff of H.R.Giger, Tom.
For everyone shitting on Ian (The Interviewer), I think your reading too much into this. I'm fairly sure Tom and Him are friends or at least have worked with each other. I think they're both just trying their best in consideration of Tom's voice.
Hellhammer & then Celtic Frost was definetly a magnet for a great many people like myself, there was a definite need for extream metal to kick down the door.
Punk had an influence on the whole metal scene, deny it if you like but punk was a serious influence on all metal.
A living legend..
We couldn't play, but we had the stage look, extremity :) Classic!
50 mins into it - great description of how the scene became ProTooled and rehashed BS, and shred competition.
Gotta look underground. The top tier bands are dog shit already
51:19 words of light!
Fuckin hell your right words of light and inspiration
Awesome!! Very cool interview..
Wow... that was Profoundly Awesome. ...Tom is quite a Human Being.
Been a Celtic Frost/HellHammer fan since the late 80's and I really respect Thom G. his attitude towards music, politics etc.. and how that should or should not mix is tops.
Hm, the first time I heard Triumph of Death back in 1984 in Bulgaria I thought it was the end if it all. Nowhere else to go from there. The most extreme of the extreme. It was unlike all the other extreme music we listened to. That was indeed the real thing. Not a game.
I can't understand how a Bulgarian teenager can "get" that sort of sound but dozens of people from countries with much more access to that kind of music couldn't. Finding and having that kind of extreme music in Bulgaria in 1984 was a strange affair complete with people that were constantly watching their back, loaning you a record for 3 hours, and observing the street up and down hidden behind thin curtains. I guess it was some kind of Communist police ideology thing - they were against that kind of music. Or it could have been paranoid crazy people that had these records. Either way - the first time I heard "Triumph of Death" I thought that one does not listen to this kind of sounds casually. As I said - these sounds were not a game, not just music. That's how it felt. Looking at the facial expressions of Tom in that interview I kind of see how it can affect you. I'm not sure how the guy has not gone insane by now or committed suicide.
Very honest guy. Very interesting to hear him talk.
Great WhiteNiko I was a young Punk in the 80'ties as i heard Triumph of the Death for the first time and i Thought: "Wow ,What the Fuck! They are way more Punk then every Punk Band i know and much more Hardcore then the entire Us Hardcore Scene + Dark and Giger!
@@rainerkornmusic You right best comment in years. The metal cliche is so stupid now and it ruins the sound. Cf and HH sound highly Discharge.
Мен ми е интересно откъде се сдоби с демото? Тогава едвам се намираше какъвто и да е рок, какво остава за Hellhammer??
@@Annihilation_0f_The_Wicked9066 То е история като за филм. Мой познат знаеше някакъв странен тип по прякор "Кучето". Владо Кучето май беше. Тоя беше някъде към 35 годишен слабоват и с опънати нерви тип. Та ние трябваше да му се обадим и да уредим среща в точен час. Не можеше да сме рано или късно. Квартирата му беше на 3-я или 4-ия етаж някъде в центъра - не си спомням имена на улица, ама беше близо до двореца на Културата ли се викаше онова дето Людмила Живкова го построи до Магурата - сладкарницата известна по онова време като върха на сладоледа. С трамвай и с подтичвания пристигаме ама точно на минутата. Вратата е отворена и направо влизаме. Кучето се застанал прав отстрани до една дантелена завеса така че да не го види никой от улицата и изобщо не поглежда към нас. И не мърда. Явно ни е видял още като идваме и отключва вратата. Неподвижен, наблюдава улицата непрекъснато. С полу думи ни казва да зимаме ей ония там плочи и да ги връщаме обратно точно в еди колко си часа. Не се интересуваше много от парите, буквално - остави там, да земи и тия другите ако искаш, не ме занимавай. Ние тичаме у нас, слагаме на грамофона, записваме на касетки, празниме се от кеф. Връщаме плочите и питаме има ли други. Владо казва ще има горе-долу еди кога си и затваря вратата бързо - предполагам тича до прозореца пак да гледа улицата. После у нас се почва яко слушане и опити за превеждане - то е комедия от тия ревове и писъци да се опитваш да разбереш нещо, ама аз и от това бая понаучих още английски. Някой плочи имаха текстове така че това беше лесно - ако не се притесняваш от безсмислени текстове де. Не знам какъв беше тоя Владо и защо правеше това с плочите. Според мен е било някакво нелегално внасяне на "материали" дето са били забранени като пропаганда. Нали по онова време така беше. Не знам обаче защо някой ще го прави освен ако има някакви причини много различни от няколкото левчета дето разни деца може да оставят всеки няколко часа. Това което ти описах е това което си спомням. Струва ми се като измислица или някакъв филм сега. Беше 1983-86.
@@GreatWhiteNiko Много интересна история. Изобщо не звучи, като измислица. Слушал съм подобни истории, като тази от по-старите фенове на жанра. Не точно, като тази, но пак доста интересни. Не съм бил роден тогава, но си представям каква радост сигурно е било да попаднеш на нещо такова. Постоянно чувам как са се радвали на Пърпъл, Мейдън, Аксепт и т.н. Но нещо, като Хелхамър никога не е било споменавано :Д Добре че сега имаме Триптикон. Невероятна група! Дано тази година чичо Том ни зарадва с нов албум. И двата му албума са невероятни!
what a great guy Tom has turned out to be. well done pal.
I think we have a preview of what toms gonna sound like in his 80's.
Great guy with a very nice view! One of the good people with respect!
I’m sure interviewing a legend like Tom is hard, but I wish the interviewer spent more time on a single idea rather than constantly branching out to different threads
Great interview of a Legend!!! Thanks, Red Bull!!!!
Congratulations Tom on all your accomplishments . I always wanted to tell you.
Great interview.
I like Tom's opinion. I think his music is absolutely fantastic.
He's a good guy
Giger was a gift to us
i feel like im watching a very rare event about someone very rare.
i dont care what he says hes an artist...monotheist is fucking heavy art.
to the core
tom g warrior is cool
Tom is a legend. He deserves more respect.
This dude takes forever to ask a question
Exactly, he spoke for 3 minutes asking Tom the first question. I was like STFU already and let Tom talk. Interviewer thinks he wants to look intelligent and find the correct word to use when he is a nitwit.
Yeah. He sux
Stage fright maybe? I mean the dude in front of him is a living legend in his way, so you'd be pooping your pants a bit as well, right?
@@griselame Actually when I met Tom, he walked away because I mentioned Cold Lake, lol
Nobody wanted to do a show, concert with Hellhammer because they were too intimidated by their powerfullness, and wouldn't just agree that Hellhammer should of course be the headlining band! What a shame.. As you know.. their pride got in the way of just admitting the truth, of Hellhammer being their Main influence and Inspiration!!! 🙋⚡⚡⚡⚡⚡🎸🔥⚡🤘🙋
Amazing interview
Bauhaus and Sisters of Mercy were comrades to Tom but not Christian Death? Tom's clean voice on Pandemonium sounds SO much like Christian Death...
Obviously yes
But its a concious or not avoiding of the obvious influence mentionning .
Into crypts of rays, pretty much nailed my venture into Metal . yeah
Great man! Respect!!!
That would have been mind blowing to have seen Hellhammer or Celtic Frost with The Sisters of Mercy! Aww, HELL YA!! 🙋
Tom warrior on red bull, interesting interview,
Tom, the humble genius.
Unbelievable modesty.
I remember I bought Into the Pandemonium in June of '87 and thought it was amazing even though many old-schoolers didn't like it.
Fantastic! Thank you for posting!
The man the legend!!!
All the Punks and headbangers that were fans of the underground thrash death metal bands loved Hellhammer!! This I know! 🙋
I don't think you could find a worse interviewer
He obviously didn't prepare N E thing & is just doing the fan boy routine.
Lmao jeez yes from the beginning he is just rephrasing himself over and over.
Great interview,by the way 😊!
I've always respected Tom G but now even more.
A true legend
Tom Warrior is the MAN
Thanks you thomas
Finally someone is honest about venom !!!
Where do I get that Triptykon necklace????
I am getting Only Death is Real
I don't know anything,. The most philosophical statement ever made
Ian is a fuckin cool guy. He's opened up.so many things gs in the world.of.metal. Tom is a true artist and a master of his own craft. Such a deep and cool grounded guy. I think Ian does a great job of talking about very cool Insights
Lmao I would be so flabbergasted hearing certain answers and the interviewer clearly is too and just beside himself with what to say…many times in this interview he like widens his eyes in surprise. “What’s wrong with people???”-Tom G Warrior
I think the problem is, and I will get lambasted for this, that metal, by its instrumentation, traditionally, has its limitations, and is destined to repeat itself after over 50 years. Someone will certainly come along to prove me wrong. There have been, however, black metal bands in the past 2 years from various corners of the world like Turkey and Indonesia that, even though they are working in decades old templates, have that fire.
Sony and Hellhammer!
Triptkyon is pretty badass
i like how he respects punk rock
there are a very few people who are as influential in all of modern metal music as Tom.
Interviewer is painful. Yikes
But his book is great, check it out...
Tom G!!