Solving Noise Issues When Using 2 Amps - Ask Zac 164
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As soon as I got a second guitar amp in High School, I began experimenting with running both of them at the same time. In 1990 this usually meant a stereo chorus splitting the signal. An unwanted side-effect was that I found that my noise floor went way up, and sometimes, with certain pairings of amps, it seemed like my sound got smaller instead of bigger. It was not until almost two decades later, in 2002, I learned about the grounding and phase issues that have to be dealt with when running two amps simultaneously. Here, I show how to overcome these issues with an easy-to-find signal splitter that incorporates phase reversal controls, and safe ground lifting using an isolation transformer.
Amazon link to Lehle P-Split III
amzn.to/3MVoVU1
Book Nook Link - The Fender Archives, by Tom Wheeler
amzn.to/42fyZfi
The Stratocaster Chronicles, by Tom Wheeler
amzn.to/3WANkBE
Gear used:
1982 Kubicki body, 2022 Danocaster Neck, Glaser Convertible Bender, 80s Duncan middle, Ron Ellis 50/60 Tele pickup set.
NYXL 9.5-44 Strings
amzn.to/3qbGGpp
1965 Deluxe Reverb with 12" Eminence GA-SC64 speaker
Link to 12" Eminence GA-SC64 speaker
amzn.to/427wpYr
2023 Headstrong Lil' King with 12" Eminence GA-SC64 speaker
headstrongamps.com/lil-king-amp
Effects used:
1981 TC Chorus
Mad Professor Deep Blue Delay
Truetone CS6 power supply amzn.to/3WAMd4R
#askzac #princetonreverb #telecaster
Zac’s Sunday “Service” …to the community.
Amen
Thanks Zac. In the average UK pub venue squeezing two amps in is tricky but it’s something I’ve considered. It’s good to know some of the issues involved- forewarned is forearmed! I’ve got a few of the Tom Wheeler books you mentioned. They are good and great to be able to refer to whenever a question about 60’s custom colours or similar geekery comes up!
Radial Twin City. You can’t beat it for a dual mono/stereo rig. The features(dual buffer,ABY, ground lift, phase and “drag”)sound quality, safety and price make it a no brainer for a gigging/working musician.
The Radial Headlight has 4 outputs and a tuner out with all the same stuff as the Twin City.
with two amps, whether stereo or wet/dry I use either a Radial Eng Shotgun (stereo) or their Big Shot (mono). Great transformers and phase/ground lift switching
I use the Humdinger from the Gig Rig in the uk - works so well I have one under both my main board and my fly rig board, lovely playing at the start of this video by the way👍🎸😀
Zac; I started running stereo 40 years ago when I was with Sam Neely(MCA Records)down in Corpus Christi. We didn't have the luxury of pre-made box/pedals that would correct the phase of your amp or your signal. I use to lift the ground wire on one end of the plug..
Tom Wheeler; I was working at West L.A. Music in 1974 doing guitar repairs. Tom was working at the main store teaching guitar. His book came out not long after I started there. I still have my original copy with the original receipt (from 1974). When his last book came out he had a function at The Grammy Museum. I took all the books he wrote that own down the the museum and had him autograph them. I'll always be a fan of Tom's! He was always just the nicest guy and very engaging.
You got me thinking about that 70s Guitar Player era with Tom Wheeler. Probably my favorite writer is Jas Obrecht. Loved his articles and books. Like you, I still have my little library of guitar related books. History, bios, how-to's.....gonna dig 'em out! Thanks, Zac!
That was my first 'bible' guitar book as well! Bought it in '76, still have it (and the cover)! This was a great segment! Thanks! I bought both the Strat book and the Soul of Tone as well! They are great and keepsakes!
I love Lehle. But I have been using a gigrig humdinger for several multi amp rigs. Including wet/dry and stereo, as well the traditional a/b setup, it isolates me well
Great episode Zac! Trying 2 amps together was a revelation for me a few years back. My go to is the Mike Campbell approved pairing of a Princeton Reverb and a Tweed Deluxe (wet/dry.) Either of those amps sound okay on their own, nowhere near as good as my Deluxe Reverb. Together the sound is HUGE! It's not any louder, but just sounds bigger.
The Lehle splitter sounds great and phase is a bonus. I keep it in my gig bag,
Some newer Looper switchers do this too. The musicom efx le ii does a great job, you can use stereo delay and chorus too.
2 amps one mids the other top bottom is the bomb.
The transformers in the iso do make a difference.
As ALWAYS!! Thanks for taking the time and sharing the wisdom!!
Thanks for the information Zac. Just picked up a 5f10 to go with my 5e3 Victoria. Switching between the two should produce a variety of Tweed magic tone.
I can recommend the Radial SB-6 Stagebug. For stereo guitar amp setups. Ground lift functions. Phase correction functions. It seems like a great reliable and quality product. My dual Fender amp setup sounds huge, without required to be loud.
Great episode, Zac! I've been using the Radial Bigshot ABY for years. Great little unit that helped with the grounding issues, the phase issues, etc. The phase issue is a strange one though. Sometimes, getting the phase correct is pretty obvious -- one option sounds very thin and the other option sound very full. But other times (perhaps it depends on the two amps I'm using), figuring out the phase isn't so easy for me. Sometimes, it sounds as if the amps are still just slightly out of phase no matter where the phase switch is set.
An improved transformer is one way to get less of a difference between the isolated and through lines on an aby box, another option is to eq the signal. I did a shootout of the ehx switchblade +, fulltone truepath, radial twin city and the orange amp detonator, ade at orange eqed the transformer and it is clearly the winner between the 4 options. Cheers.
Thanks, Zac! That explanation was terrific
Great article! Another great use for switcher like this or the Radial BigShot is that you can use the 180° phase switch to link channels on Fender Reverb amps to drive them - no special cable needed. Or use on a 2-channel Fender or other and you've got channel switching.... Appreciate your clarity when explaining these!
The Orange amp detonator pedal is another solid option.
I got it in my mind that I needed to run two amps when I was a touring guy several years back. I went through and checked phase on all of my combos because I hadn’t yet decided which amps to use. Ended up with a Deluxe Reverb and a Morgan JO12 (kinda my own thing that Joe cooked up for me). I just used ground lifts, lol. Great stuff as always, Zac!
Thanks, Justin. Enjoying your vids!
Dang Zac that amp setup is the sound of the gods!! ⚡️
It’s a great tone. I have to admit that now I have a different agenda. I want to be able to show up anywhere, plug into any rig and having enough prescience to dial in a workable tone. A lot of this is inspired by other instruments that do this and those old recording aces who would plug straight into a board. It doesn’t make life easy, but I feel like it’s forcing me to work harder on my picking hand techniques. (In one practice I use someone’s Behrenger, in another I’m using someone’s Fender Deluxe, and in another I’m using a Roland Blues Cube or a Boss Katana).
It’s not that I prefer these sounds. I just don’t want to be enslaved by a preferable sound.
PS even grounding experts are hard pressed into defining what does and does not define a grounding loop because ground ultimately returns to a single source. I can tell a lot of trial and error went into this information. Thanks for sharing. Maybe someday I will taste the ultimate tone of a pair of Princetons!
I like the Sunday posts Zac.
Thanks Zac !!! That was very useful info. The guy who first alerted me to a stereo rig was Brent Mason, with the Don Kelley Band, back in the eighties at the Stagecoach on M-road in NV. Thanks again, well done.
Very cool!
Absolutely loved the opening progression with the bender. Nice guitar Zac.
Thanks!
Good Afternoon,
Thank you for the very technical information.
Aloha and Mahalo Zac! I enjoyed your video. I had some of Tom Wheelers books and really enjoyed the as a well as Guitar Player magazine.
These Sunday Zacs are becoming a thing.
I love Zac’s info. He explains things so well. Plus Zac is a heck of a great guy.
@@guitareveryone He’s a prince.
Thanks to you both!
Another great book on Leo and that era is "The Birth of Loud" by Ian Port. It is still available. Excellent history on Leo and some of Gibson as well.
I'll check it out!
I just finished reading that recently, after I saw Kenny Vaughan recommend it. A terrific, very interesting book 👍🏼
If you have a book that isn't in print, you can do the community a favor and have a company scale the book into a ebook. It isn't expensive
I use a Lehle Little Dual. Good shit. I really recommend it.
Thanks Zac sometimes I use a framptone pedal that works pretty good. Wow sure like that bender !
Much respect salute 🫡
Loved the intro music! Good looking Tele, too!
Just found your channel. Really enjoying it and thanks for the book recommendation too!
Welcome!
Thanks for the Video! Very helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
@@AskZac great noiseless double amp set up achieved:)
What a fantastic video have a wonderful week
Thank you! You too!
Nice feature on Tom Wheeler. I think it’s an under-recognized aspect of the guitar (and bass) love- the authors of the great books, anthologies, and such. My first guitar book of any kind was the Ralph Denyer “The Guitar Handbook”. I can’t tell you how many hours I spent reading and looking at it.
Great book!
Im now looking into Neural Amp modeler..a game changing VST..and its FREE!!!
The Lehles are a good choice. Not the cheapest but you'll probably never need to buy another one. I'm not endorsed by them either (they asked but I turned them down).
Zac Magic
Hey Zac
Just watched Rick Beato's take on Artificial Intelligence.
I have a lot of respect for you.
Please do a video sharing your thoughts.
Really enjoy you and believe it or not...I've a house full of acoustics and not one electric guitar. Wierd...😂✌️
ASK ZAC, IF you replace the LEHLE audio transformer with a JENSON Audio Transformers or what other types of audio transformers don't sound dull or saturate? because when using various overdrive pedals or mid bump overdrive like a Tube screamer TS9 it will drive the audio transformers into saturation which is not a good thing. The LEHLE only works with clean guitar signals but if you use overdrive pedals it will saturate the audio transformer.
Zac, a few years ago, right after the Nashville flood, I attended the Grand Ole Opry when it had been temporarily relocated to the Ryman. I noticed the guitar players had their amps sitting on what looked to be some sort of ductwork stand, with the amps in front of them, pointed at themselves. The stand had the amps tilted back and it appeared that the sound from the back of the amp was being projected out the front, right into the player's face. I have looked for these stands online but haven't had any luck getting info on them. Do you have any reference to who makes these or what they are even called ? By the way, I'm new to your show. I only discovered you a few weeks ago due to a reference by Keith Williams. I really like what you're doing. Keep up the good work. Thanks, Tony.
Those were almost like dolly's with a vent underneath. I used them on the Opry a number of times. They were trying to get stage volume down by pointing the amps at the player's head.
Thanks Zac, great video. Thought you ran Celestion V30's in your deluxe. Why did you switch to Alessandro speakers?
To get a touch more open, less mids, sound. I still love the V30 though.
@@AskZac Thanks Zac, I'll give those a try. I've got a (2) 64 deluxe reverbs, it'll be neat to AB them. Also, got a near mint 64 super reverb with the stock speakers that need to go. Do you think the Alessandro's would be good for that or something else. Mainly play blues and country with very little effects. Thanks again!
Can’t you use like a Radial JDI DI instead of the Lehle with a stereo effect like your TC chorus? It does have a Jensen transformer in it and both ground and phase switches (I think...)?
Thanks Zac. Question, would plugging both amps into a high quality power strip solve the ground hum issue since both amps would have a common ground - that of the power strip? Obviously the strip has to be rated for enough amps. Also, would you plug any pedal boards into the same power strip? Because you could get ground loops having pedalboards on yet a different ground, correct, even if the power supply were isolated. The instrument cables still connect to pedals which are connected to the patch cables etc. thanks.
The power strip will not solve the issue
Any love for the Fulltone ABY?
I’ve got a 2008 AVRI Tele I got cheap. I need to rewire it because only the bridge pickup works. Did you do any shielding to your guitars?
My Crook Paisley is shielded, the rest are not
Did you ever try the Third Man Records/MXR Double Down pedal?
Not yet
Curious what pickups are in your black Tele.
Adder neck, Duncan hot stack middle, and Florance te59
Zac, what's up with the middle pickup on that tele? Or is it just flair, lol
Old Duncan hot strat stack. I blend it in with the bridge some
What if you use 4 amps? 😭
Get a roadie
@@AskZac nah they're subscription only
A chandler echo has 4 outputs
I've been using the radial big shot as an ABY with ground lift, iso and phase flip for some years. I'd recommend it.