Noise Gates: Everything You NEED to Know | Too Afraid To Ask
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- What are Noise Gates? How do they work? What are Send and Return for? Where should I put one in my signal chain? We tackle all of the Noise Gate questions you are Too Afraid To Ask.
Boss NS1X: Thomann - thmn.to/thoprod/574355?offid=...
Sweetwater - sweetwater.sjv.io/JzQKKr
More about NS-1X - www.boss.info/global/products...
More about Multi Dimensional Processing - articles.boss.info/x-series-p...
This video contains paid promotion from Boss
More details on how CSGuitars implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure
#noisegate #tata #scienceofloud
Timecodes:
00:00 - Introduction
00:31 - Are Suppressors Different From Gates?
01:00 - How Do Noise Gates Work?
03:08 - What Noise Do Noise Gates Gate?
05:22 - Where Does A Noise Gate Go On My Pedalboard?
05:36 - Placing It EARLY In Your Signal Chain
07:01 - Placing it AFTER Distortion
07:35 - What Do SEND and RETURN Do?
09:06 - Reverbs and Delays Come LAST
09:47 - Summary of Noise Gate Placement
10:03 - So What About This NS-1X Then?
14:08 - Links and Conclusion
More from CSGuitars:
Support on Patreon: / csguitars
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Website - www.csguitars.co.uk
Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk
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Boss entrusting you to explain simply is both helpful and a huge compliment to you Colin!
What I love about working with Boss is they know what my videos are about and will come to me with a video idea which is exactly something I'd make.
This time they went "We have a new noise gate and we'd love to see 'Too Afraid To Ask: How Do Noise Gates Work' and you explain all of it. That will be an evergreen resource for guitarists that's always relevant", they fund a useful video I've been wanting to make since forever and they get their pedals prominently featured.
Everybody wins!
Boss don't want a bunch of identical pedal adverts, they want unique and helpful content that musicians can benefit from.
@@ScienceofLoudThat's how advertising *should* be. I don't care about buzzwords and hype. I want numbers, sounds, and actual explanations!
Boss pedals fucking rule.
Boss pedals are definitely fuckin BOSS... Wish they were a little less expensive tho
@@user-hs1jj2xv3l My BOSS GT-1 was not particularly expensive for what it is: every pedal you need as a skilled amateur.
Colin should be invited by every single gear manufacturer to do their review videos. Simply the best!
Dude this was golden, I has no idea what the send and return do or meant. This video cleared everything up. Thanks man
Glad I could offer you some clarity on this subject
Honestly!
@@HAHb-zc2dp thanks I will.
I'm senior electrical engineer in Brazil and I really like your videos and explanations. Boss should put this video as NS-1X manual 😂. Congrats.
Finally someone showed this with the four cable method. It was driving me crazy everyone was ignoring that.
Aww man, thank you sooo much for this. Between the spoken explanation and the accompanying animated graphics, you've done a fantastic job of explaining how these things work!
I simply can't say enough good things about Colin. His videos are always incredibly informative, and his humour, delivery, playing, and production are always on point. Of course, this video is no exception!
Have you tried asking him out?
You've outdone yourself again, I can't imagine the hours this must have taken to put together. Thanks for a wonderfully clear explanation!
The Boss NS-2 is such a powerhouse I use it on all 3 of my pedalboards to its fullest capability, and hearing your explanation of Boss’s MDP just blew my mind and now I need to upgrade them all. Along with my compressors to the CP-1X. I’m going to be broke now.
This video answered all the questions I spent hours googling yesterday.
I love this series. Been playing since the beginning of time, and there's still tons of stuff like this that I've just taken for granted, without really understanding.
Ditto. I've been the caveman of guitarists, "I plug cable here, noise come out!"
Knocked it out of the park again Colin. That is literally the first time I have ever understood what send and return are, and I've tried countless times. Thank you for explaining it in such a simple, practical, and visual way. Now I get it.
Everything is better when explained by a true Scotsman... Great demo! Thank you, sir!
Wow this was amazing dude. I felt like I just took a university class Noise Gates 101. Seriously well put together. I would like to see a series of these for all types of pedals. Then maybe a 202 class for those that need it. Thanks Professor 😉
Caught that At the GATES riff... Nice 👍🏼
Decided to redo my entire pedalboard (don't worry, it's not very big) thanks to this video and I'm very happy with the new signal chain, using the Send and Return feature of the NS-2. Thanks Colin!
your videos are always so topical! I was wondering about noise gates not two days ago!!!
I was looking forward to this, it was really helpful the way you explained how it function as well as the graphic visuals. I’ll def consider looking into getting one in the future. Thanks Colin for your time, care, and consideration into this one.
I just can't live without a noise gate - and I know I'm like this because I'm a smelly little death metal gremlin and have about 5 of the buggers, but I use gates most on Strats and P90s to try and chill out some of that mains frequency hum. Was very happy with how the Reduction mode on the NS-1X handled single coils.
@@ScienceofLoudhehe I relate as I’m a effects pedal gremlin that likes to chase textures the same way, I was most impressed by the spilt of the seeds and returns at two different points of the chain so I can see what you mean by having them everywhere in your setup!
Thanks! Definitely like the idea of splitting it in two places and the digital aspect to focus on different things differently
Definitely one of the best if not the best video I've seen on the subject..Kudos!
Playing an At the gates riff was a cheeky little touch I see what you did there
What a clear and really helpful explanation. I sort of knew how noise gates work, but avoided them because the cutoffs always seemed too abrupt and unnatural at the end of a sustained note. The digital algorithm really looks like a game changer here.
Very helpful explanation. I've been looking everywhere for information on this particular pedal for a very specific use in my signal chain. So far, you have been the only person I've came across to break it down for said specific use.
Long time viewer here man, but this vid made me sub
Thank you so much for this!
Great job with this video, tons of clear direct information, very useful! Thanks guys!
Amazing video on noise gates. Couldn't ask for anymore. Brilliant, thank you!
This was awesomely helpful, I am totally getting and fitting one of these into my signal chain. ✌️😌🎸
thank you, one think that never would need this videos about a noise supressor, until you need it! there is no better explanation than this one!
I've never really felt much need in the past for a noise gate, but the NS-1X is so good, that I'm seriously considering getting it. I'm a big fan of the Boss X series pedals. My main bass pedalboard uses the BB-1X Bass Driver and BC-1X Bass Comp. Now, if they would release an FB-1X Feedbacker/Booster, that would be great.
Great vid Colin! another banger that really helps us all out! :D
by far the best video about noise gates and how they work on yt
Great video once again, thanks!!! Cheers from Portugal.
That send/return info was mind-blowing and helpful. Really cool feature.
Amazing content as always mate!!! very clear and informative! i too have a Boss NS2 =) i love it and i use it with a send/return as well. i'm not really heavy on the gain, but it really helps make my stage sound clean. cheers.
Thanks Colin brilliant explanation
This has to be the most helpful explanation on noise gates I’ve seen! Thanks Colin!
You are a bright Ladd, thanks again for your time and brain power.
Great video, Colin! Finally someone using the Send and Return properly! So many NS-1X videos have completely missed the point. I kinda wish my MXR Smart Gate had that feature, but I mostly use it to tame my fuzz pedals when recording, so I don't need it to be too subtle!
Great video man!
Thank you so much! This is hands down, the best explanation of NS pedals I could imagine.
Awesome explanation Colin, also, love the carrot and the animation.
Absolutely love that blue metal strat
There are a lot of other CZcamsrs that should watch this. It's so sad watching someone talk, at length, about something they don't understand. You're the man!
But I'm still undecided between this Boss pedal and the TC Electronics Sentry. Will have to endure some more videos I guess...
Thank you, very clear & informative video...let me go try that gate again. 😎
Perfectly explained, the light bulb went off when you talked about your signal and noise being the same and not separate. I was that carrot.. I’ll admit it . Great video with some easy to understand explanations.
This is by far the most interesting TATA up to now. It would be amazing if you could compare different gate pedals and explain why some are better than others.
This makes me wonder why I ever even pined so much for the C***blocker pedal. This seems like it fits my use case perfectly and you even demonstrated that with the high gain too. Adding this to my wish list.
*Thank you!*
Where was this video 10 years ago when I needed it!?
Perfectly executed. Short and to the point, with great animation for easy understanding.
I have an old NS-1 in the Send/Return-Configuration to keep the old chainsaw in place, works well.
However, there is still some high-frequency whistling when the gate closes.
The new NS-1X seems to handle that a bit better, check these two timestamps:
09:05
11:13
Thanks so much for this video, I was always avoiding picking up a noise gate for fear of it cutting the signal off too hard or early and sounding artificial. I just picked up the NS1X.
Awesome content, bro.
nice clear visuals 🤘😃👍
Thanks Colin
i love this series.
❤ Never a bad or boring video
Luv u Colin
It is glorious. Must have.
Great video!
This pedal is fantastic! I could barely even play, Silent Night when I bought this..
immediately after getting the pedal, I was ripping off EVH solos out of no where!!!
My wife even said I am more attractive now (I noticed my posture is better and I am actually an inch or two taller since getting it.
Another really well made video 👍👍
Nice tip.Gonna use it on my Zoia(it's got a noise filter funtion, of course).
Years ago, I spent A LOT time time on my pedal board. I had my Boss NS-2 looped perfectly to stop distortion noise and let delay and reverb sounds through flawlessly..... And while I was typing this a car crash into a ditch my yard so I can't remember what else I was going to say.
Nothing smells better than a new Boss pedal! 😍
except a new guitar...
@@RaccoonHenry True 🎸🙈
Except poop
@@turdferguson2 Matter of taste I guess...
I remember that I watch this video on your channel a few days ago. Did you reupload this video?
Great explanation as usual.
Damn bro. That boss pedal seems like it's better than a plug-in.
I always tought noise supressor was different from noise gate. Thanks for the clarification!
Boss released their 'NF-1 Noise Gate' in 1979, this was in production for almost a decade until they brought out their new version with more features, which needed a different name, and they called it 'NS-2 Noise Suppressor'
The 'Suppressor' name only exists to differentiate their 'new' 1987 pedal from the older model they were replacing. It would be like thinking a 'Super Overdrive' is something different from an 'Overdrive', or a 'Phase Shifter' is different from a 'Phaser'. Boss simply changed the names for the newer pedals.
It really is that simple, but it's surprising how caught up people can get on a name.
Oh yeah TATA is back!
I use the hex stomp gate which works out because all drives and amp emulation are before the stomp but delays and verb are after the input gate in the stomp
What are Noise Gates? How do they work? What are Send and Return for? Where should I put one in my signal chain? We tackle all of the Noise Gate questions you are Too Afraid To Ask.
Boss NS1X: Thomann - thmn.to/thoprod/574355?offid=1&affid=367
Sweetwater - sweetwater.sjv.io/JzQKKr
More about NS-1X - www.boss.info/global/products/ns-1x/
More about Multi Dimensional Processing - articles.boss.info/x-series-pedals-mdp-technology-explained/
This video contains paid promotion from Boss
More details on how CSGuitars implements product promotion - www.csguitars.co.uk/disclosure
#noisegate #tata #scienceofloud
Timecodes:
00:00 - Introduction
00:31 - Are Suppressors Different From Gates?
01:00 - How Do Noise Gates Work?
03:08 - What Noise Do Noise Gates Gate?
05:22 - Where Does A Noise Gate Go On My Pedalboard?
05:36 - Placing It EARLY In Your Signal Chain
07:01 - Placing it AFTER Distortion
07:35 - What Do SEND and RETURN Do?
09:06 - Reverbs and Delays Come LAST
09:47 - Summary of Noise Gate Placement
10:03 - So What About This NS-1X Then?
14:08 - Links and Conclusion
More from CSGuitars:
Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/csguitars
Join CSGuitars Discord - discord.gg/csguitars
Buy CSGuitars Merchandise - www.csguitars.co.uk/store
Website - www.csguitars.co.uk
Contact - colin@csguitars.co.uk
____________________________________________________________________
*Description contains affiliate links. Purchasing using one of these links will generate a small commission for CSGuitars at no additional cost to you.*
You mentioned "switch-mode power supplies injecting noise into your power line"... I thought switch mode power supplies were the best types of power supplies on the market? Stuff like the Cioks DC7. How would they inject noise?
@@jamesmoses4066 If they are properly designed with an audio application in mind, like the Cioks units, then they shouldn't inject noise. Or at least will make a valiant attempt at filtering it out.
However most people will experience SWPS initially through a cheap wall wart power supply which are designed as cheaply as possible as a throw in accessory to any number of electronic devices - these have not been designed to filter out the switching noise.
The switching mechanic which allows SMPS to be lightweight and efficient can also cause fluctuations in power which aren't a problem if the PSU is just intended to charge a battery or power a lamp or whatever, but when used in audio applications it results in terrible switching noise.
Collin, could you please tell us if there is a difference between a pre-amp pedal and a distortion pedal? ...Or is running a pre-amp pedal into the front of an amp a bad thing?
@@BillyTheKidsGhost I did exactly that video a few months ago: czcams.com/video/4ayC1J6cFso/video.html
Colin your metal chops are getting pretty solid, man! We should start a band.
Really good video! 🔥🔥
I was a bit surprised to find out it's 250 € 😅
Great video, Colin. You're explanations are always very helpful and enlightening, but I'm still a bit confused about something. The diagram at 9:54 shows compression/dirt in the Return/Send loop of the pedal and the Output going to delay/reverb then to the amp. However, I'm having trouble seeing how this matches up with your diagram at 8:08 showing the signal going through suppressor Input, then to dirt, then amp, while the Output (second "half" of the suppressor) of the pedal going to delay/etc. in the amp's effects loop. I'm fully aware your diagrams are for illustrating what you're talking about at that moment in the video, but if you could shed some light on this, my tiny pea brain would appreciate it! Cheers!
Guitar -> NS Input
NS Send -> Comp, Dist, Amp in
Amp Send -> NS Return
NS Out -> Delay, Reverb, Amp Return
Essentially, the compressor, distortion, and Preamp are all in the Gate loop, and the final output of the gate goes through the delays and reverbs into the Amp return. It makes more sense if you think of your amp as having "Preamp in, Preamp out, Power amp In" instead of "Input, Send, Return"
I've had several guitarists tell me they're not sure how their gate works, so I'll be sending this video, from now on...
Great explanation. Now a thought experiment: what would happen if a compressor had a send and return?
I don’t set gates that high because I like rolling the volume down for cleans doesn’t seem natural if completely silent between notes
Great video man! Informative, entertaining, and your logic seems spot-on! I was personally put my noise gate in my compressor at the end of the chain! If it wasn't such a pain in the ass to move pedals around on a pedalboard I'd try that! Are you absolutely positive about putting your compressor in front of your chain also? That just don't seem right. My signal chain is guitar, tuner, EQ, overdrive, distortions, compressor, noise gate, amp input. All Ambient effects I run to the effects loop. Do you have a separate video on compressors and how they work? I would so love to see that! Anyway awesome awesome video I really enjoyed it best one I've seen ever!
You've certainly got a unique approach to the order of your effects...
Yeah, let's move your compressor and gate earlier in the chain and watch how everything works much better for you.
Do you have a reason why you want to further compress your distorted signal?
Question; if I place in the beginning of my chain , will I only use guitar-input , out to the next one?
Fantastic video ! when using FX loop, where would I put the EQ and Compressor ? and after what pedals ? tnx
I realize that noise-control products are no less susceptible to confusing naming than anything else in the musical world, but there IS a difference between a noise *suppressor* and a noise *gate* . "Gating" reduces the *entire* signal across the whole spectrum. Some gates allow one to adjust just much they reduce the signal, from a slight quieting to complete shutting it off. "Suppression", on the other hand, generally addresses high-frequency noise. Many noise-control devices back in the days of vinyl, were intended to attenuate surface noise in particular, such that they would detect and filter out such noise during quiet passages. Both of these are distinct from what is called "downward expansion". Expansion is the polar opposite of compression and especially peak limiting. Where compressors and limiters can reduce dynamic range of higher levels, such that the signal acquires a kind of fixed level, downward expansion *exaggerates* differences in level for quieter parts of the signal, such that what is softer gets MUCH quieter, and leaves louder parts unaffected. I have a compressor that uses this and it is dead quiet.
I have long held the view that there are two aspects of "noise hygiene" to attend to. Guitars themselves tend not to produce much broadband hiss at all. Generally, their contribution will be EMI "hum" from all those nearby sources that pickups and poorly-shielded wiring can be susceptible to. This can certainly be amplified by later stages in the signal chain, and can sometimes be added to by poor grounding or shielding in pedals, but is typically a guitar-sourced form of noise. The other source of noise is hiss and some forms of high-frequency clock noise coming from the pedals themselves, especially, but not restricted to, higher gain pedals. Modulation pedals can produce annoying "ticks" at the modulation rate, but if they are properly designed can avoid that. Same thing with delay-based effects (echo, flanger, chorus) that have a risk for clock noise leaking through but should be designed to avoid that. (Side note: The Boss CE-1 and A/DA Flanger both had noise gates built in to cut out the delay signal when you stopped playing) In an ideal world one needs an automatic bass-suppressor immediately after the guitar, before the first pedal, so that no hum enters the rest of the signal path, and a hiss suppressor further along, to prevent any hiss buildup from gain stages.
The chief difficulty with any form of noise control is that such devices make decisions to act or not act, based on signal level. Some may make a more informed decision than others, but generally they simply respond to overall signal level. And when there is enough noise (i.e., the "noise floor" is high), that decision point - the threshold - has to be set in a manner that affects the onset and decay of your signal. Alternatively, if one sets the threshold modestly, you don't get rid of nearly as much noise as you'd like to. This is why so many contemporary noise-control pedals include a send-return loop, such that the difference between wanted and unwanted sounds can be *detected* at the point where it is easiest to differentiate, but *applied* where it will have the most productive impact. ( *Nicely explained, Colin!* ) . The introduction of DSP-based noise detection and suppression has hiked noise control effectiveness up several notches, again because it employs more sophisticated "decision-making". I suppose one *could* do all of that in the analog domain, but the pedal would likely need to be rather large.
But much of this is why I have adopted the view that a dual gate/suppressor approach is the ideal. The guitar goes into the noise-control pedal which eliminates hum, and senses the overall signal level, and applies a high-frequency noise *filter* to the "return" signal. That is, you get'em coming in AND going out. In theory, this ought to result in much gentler application and less intrusive action in controlling unwanted noise.
(Sidenote #2: Because compressors are generally designed to treat hiss, when you don't play, as soft signal desperately in need of boosting, compressors can often be depicted as excessively noisy. They aren't...as long as you make sure to feed them a clean and quiet signal. Stick a compressor after a gain pedal, and it will boost the hiss. Not good.)
TC Electronic has been doing this for years with their send/return. What’s new with the Boss that TCE doesn’t already do?
Nice intro riff to "slaughter of the soul" at 8:58.
I've always heard of sidechain compression, but never really put any thought into sidechain gating. I think I've fallen in love with this pedal.
Gates are an extreme type of expander, which is very similar in operation to a compressor (with a limiter being the extreme). They just working in the opposite way. One decreases volume when the volume is low, the other decreases volume when it's high. Most features that can be applied to a compressor can be applied to expanders as well.
How does side chain compression work? And what's the benefit. Can't find any good explanation online
@@pimcramer2569 the side chain is the signal used to trigger the compression. It will usually be either the input signal to the compressor (feed forward), or the output signal from the compressor (feed back). The signal can be modified in any way, just like a normal audio signal. It can have it's volume changed to increase/decrease the compression threshold, or it can be filtered so only certain frequencies will trigger compression, or it can be a totally different signal (like a kick drum causing the bass to drop in volume).
I use the send and return.
This is a great video, thank you indeed! But what about the 4-cable method with Noise Gates?
7:35-9:05.
@@AeolianSeventh Appriciated, but I'm talking about when you have an FX loop on your amp etc. and put the "send" go to the amp input and the "output" to the amps FX loop return.
@@RohmanDarkwaltz It's the same principle, keeping in mind that the preamp (everything before the FX send, usually*) is a gain device just like a compressor or distortion pedal.
The diagram at 8:06 is showing the four-cable method:
-guitar to noise gate input, so the signal is sensed before any gain is applied;
-noise gate send to pedals, which will add noise;
-pedals to amp, which will add noise;
-FX send, where hopefully all the noise has already been added, to noise gate return, where it will be gated;
-noise gate output to delay, reverb, etc.;
-delay, reverb, etc. to FX return, where the signal becomes loud.
*I say usually because for some reason Soldanos have the FX loop right in the middle of the preamp, after most of the distortion but before the EQ. It's weird, and it's never worked well with any noise gate I've tried.
Nice explanation, I've never seen one "splitting" the Noise Gate pedal on stage. Can this be implemented on a modeller multi effect board?
Colin, I have a TATA for you:
Why would you use a boost/low gain pedal to boost your amp into high gain when your amp is capable of high gain and tone shaping already? Can you explain how a Tube Screamer or similar pedal is different than just adding gain, cutting the lows, and boosting the mids?
I‘m pretty sure we‘ll see a lot of evolution in noise suppression in the coming years. Noise vs. signal is something you can train neural networks pretty well on, and they, in turn, _can_ then actually filter the noise out, not just gate the complete signal. There‘s already some incredible advancements in image denoising coming in lately. And running a pre-trained NN is actually not that computation heavy-smartphones run tons of them for all kinds of stuff already. You don‘t need crazy fast processors or a lot of power for that.
One comment on the threshold, some (digital) noise gates have 2 thresholds, one for opening and one for closing. Which I found very handy, as it helps with tails and long vibratos
The iZotope gate I use on the post side has the open and close thresholds, which is super useful.
It's great when it can be visualised in that way, but it would probably be difficult to implement properly on a compact stompbox.
I believe that’s called hysteresis in many gate plugins, Cool that pedals have that too!
hen i was first starting playing guitar, I was like 14, 15 and I wanted the cleanest "distorted" lead I could find
now I'm 32 and the little "nggggggggggg" going through the amp is the best
I’m debating between this and the revv g8
Teach teacher!!
I would’ve loved to see you compare the NS1 vs NS2. Curious how they upgraded it.
They added lights
And the white paint is slightly whiter.
I can say that upgrading from NS-2 to Sentry was the best thing, it works better (kicks in and keeps sustain much better).
Despite NS-2 being a cheap alternative and a classic, more modern stuff is worth overpaying slightly.
Just wanted to share with you, on case you use the old Boss gate. :)
yup. i feel this is what I needed in my pedal board and this explained even a dummy like me can understand.
So if we're using a 4 cable noise gate like this one with a pedal switcher, would placing the sensor portion immediately after the guitar/before the switcher while placing the gated portion in the desired loop be a feasible option?
Hi! what do you think of the KMA Pylon? i am undecided between it and the boss you treat in the video. I'm very interested in the channel switching capability that's in the Pylon.
As an owner of a P90 guitar, I know you know of the noise they give out! Is a noise suppressor or noiseless pickups the best option to remedy this?
Hello @ScienceofLoud This is a great video on both how to use and how to set up! I had a question through... I just bought the NS-2 yesterday. I have is all plugged in correctly and it seems to be working great. The thing I noticed though is there is zero noise when I am not playing the guitar. However when I start to play the guitar I can still hear the noise over the guitar distortion. Is this normal? I have it hooked up correctly using the send/return into my distortion pedals.
Yes, this is normal.
As I explained in the video: A noise gate doesn't remove noise from your signal, it simply shuts off the whole signal when it drops below a threshold amplitude.
If your signal has a lot of noise, you're going to still hear it when the gate is open.
If the noise is louder than your signal then a Noise Gate won't fix that - you have other problems which are creating noise that should be addressed separately.
I did 4 cable gating for a while. It works, but not for me. It's too much setup for minimal payoff as i only use my gate as feedback reduction. My NS-2 is too slow, so these days i just ride the volume or turn down the gain a little. I still keep it on to reduce feedback on the choppier riffs, but i can get by without if need be.
Finally a decent demo. Fluff’s demo was crap.
Hi Im wanting to use one with a loop , but send the 'input/ send' on AMP A's input but put the send from another AMP B into the return and then output through the pedal back into AMP B's return.
Im using a stereo setup and the Zombie 2 is really noisy , whilst AMP A only has an OD1 in front of it.
I understand that the pedal is like an X path and think that the signals wouldnt mix. Theoretically using it on 2 amps ( one in front using the naked guitar's noise floor) and the other in AMP B's noisy FX loop. Good eh???
How does this compare in design and feature to t.c. electronics Sentry? Which do you prefer?
Hi, Collin..thx for a great video..i wanna ask..i just bought NS 1X , i use it in noise gate mode with a splitted coil humbucker guitar.. It is really good at diminishing the noise and help at playing stacatto riffs, but somehow it chopped my notes when playing high pitch melody line..any suggestions for this issue?thanks