Who Was Confucius? And What Did He Really Say?
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2021
- Who Was Confucius? And What Did He Really Say? A talk given at One Day University online on 11 September 2020 by Professor Bryan W. Van Norden of Vassar College.
This is the first lecture in a series on Chinese philosophy, but you might enjoy this mini-lecture for general intellectual background: "Existence and Essence," • Thinkbomb 1: Existence...
Following Lecture in this Series: "Confucius on Language: How NOT to Rectify Names" • Van Norden, Confucius ...
Part I Introduction
0:20 The “Confucius Statue Incident” of 2011
1:34 Confucius: Sage? Punchline? Villain?
5:07 China in the Time of Confucius
7:29 Youth of Confucius (Analects 9.6)
8:52 Confucius’s Brief Political Career (Analects 9.18)
9:58 The Years of Wandering (Analects 15.2)
12:36 Confucius as Teacher (Analects 7.7)
13:42 The Analects
Part 2 The Six Themes of Confucianism
15:32 Overview of the Six Themes
16:18 A Contrast with Plato’s View
18:07 Happiness in the Everyday World (Analects 11.26)
21:37 Virtue Instead of Force (Analects 2.3, 2.1)
23:44 Ritual and “The Secular as Sacred” (Analects 12.1, 12.2)
25:43 Learning to Be Virtuous (Analects 2.15, 7.8)
28:30 Tradition as the Source of Wisdom (Analects 7.1, 9.3, 2.11)
30:26 The Family as the Nursery of Virtue (Analects 1.2)
31:58 The Family and Special Obligations (Analects 13.18)
33:44 Review of the Six Themes of Confucianism
Part 3 The Fate of Confucianism in Modern China
35:04 The Qing Dynasty Background
36:17 The Opium Wars and Its Aftermath
38:01 Mao and Communist Suppression of Confucianism
39:35 Mao vs. Confucius
40:42 The Confucian Revival after Mao
42:48 Concluding Reflections: Whither Confucianism?
There are currently 6.4 million devout Confucian believers in the world.
Confucianism is one of the six legal religions in Hong Kong. For example: Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, and Catholicism recognized by the Hong Kong government.
In Indonesia, it is also one of the six major religions officially recognized and included in government management and funding. For example: The religions recognized and served by the Indonesian government include Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, Hinduism and Confucianism.
I'm taking a course about early Chinese philosophy which in fact uses one of your books--these lectures are an excellent companion; thank you!
What an awesome series thanks so much! As an american born Chinese I appreciate you sharing your knowledge!
I'm glad you are enjoying the series!
You lecture on difficult topics in a very engaging style.
Thank you for your kind words!
Outstanding introduction to Confucius. Thank you.
Thank you for your kind words! You might also enjoy my video, "Confucius on Language."
Really fantastic lecture; I'm studying Confucius and Mencius on my own, and your videos provide a lot of helpful guidance. Thank you!
Huge thank you for the distinct and articulate explanation.🌿
Glad you enjoyed it!
I enjoyed this lecture greatly.
I once watched a South Korean show about the revolution from the Goryeo Kingdom to New Joseon which was engineered by Confucian scholar named Jeong Do Jeon even though by doing so he violated Confucian text.
Jeong Do Jeon justified this by saying, Confucian text prove that the people are more important than the idea of filiality and loyalty since the whole idea are a mean to an end and that end is improving the life of the people at least in governance.
The show depicts a world where leaders trying to interpret the analects and other books to rule as a model. This was very strange as a form of leadership in my point of view and it never left my mind, I was intrigued greatly by the Confucius.
Mengzi/Mencius is mentioned a lot in the show.
I just found a lecture you made on Mengzi too. Good stuff😀
Excellent lecture! I was captivated by your delivery, it flowed so well.
So happy to see these videos up and running again.
Thank you! Me too!
Great to see the new format!
Hope you gain a big following among us non matriculating CZcams students of Eastern studies.
Stay safe and well
Thank you so much for your kind words!
It's less than 2000 views at the time of my watching,
but this video and others on the channel have been life-changing for me. Thank you.
I'm so glad you found something beneficial in this video series!
Really loved your mencius audiobook. I dont have such an audiobook to my knowledge in korea 😅, though there are books. Anyway constantly listening to it, and even in a confucian country in korea, i know more about mencius than any of my peers or elders, as a newzealander myself.
Deeply grateful - although I am aware of Confucius and have read the Analects - your lucid delivery has really put his life and the Analects into perspective - I wish I’d been introduced to his work so concisely when I was younger 🙏
Thank you for your kind words!
I really enjoyed the lecture! Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
How delightful! I appreciate your lectures
Thank you for providing lectures to the public, Professor. Your channel has been a great joy to me since discovering it earlier this week.
Have you ever spoken on the similarities and differences between "the way" of Confucianism and looking for the "good" in Western philosophy?
Or compared the way of Daoism with the God of Spinoza?
Thank you so much for these lecture series! Really valuable knowledge, and very insightfully articulated! Look forward to listening to as much of your content as I can.
Glad you are enjoying it!
I'm only reading the Analects now. I've ordered your translation of Mengzi. Looking forward to it! I really like the neo-Confucian ontology (what I know of it!) CGTN did a great dramatic presentation of Confucius recently. I love these lectures. They're really helping me out. I also got David Hinton's translations of IChing and Tao Te Chin recently. I like his poetry so I like his translations (I'm hoping they're accurate - I'm not a scholar on these things, so I don't really know).
Excellent presentation, thank you!
Fantastic lecture
I think an important ethical point in connection with Confucius's opposition to turning over parents to the authorities in 13.18 is his general disapproval of governing through punishment. Helping a family member avoid punishment is less nepotistic when you remember that he thinks virtuous leaders don't use punishment in the first place. Also worth considering is that "the authorities" in Confucius's own time were people he had a really low opinion of. Imagine turning your family member over to an illegitimate occupation government that hands down harsh punishments without real regard for justice. This might be closer to what Confucius is condemning as "not upright".
Excellent points!
Thank you sir
Nice talk thank you
Thank you Professor❤
Thanks Van Norden, I learnt a lot of things from you
Thanks for watching!
儒教有经书还有纬书，儒教的经书是显学（外学），儒教的纬书属于内学（密学）。
因此，儒教不仅仅是哲学，儒教也是宗教，儒教不但讲而上学，也将来世，人死后尸体和魄入地为安，但灵魂不灭，去天上“在帝左右”。
儒教有魂魄观念。
人死尸体和魄入地，灵魂去天堂在上帝周围。
Confucianism has both classics and latitudinal books. Confucian classics belong to explicit learning (external learning), while Confucian latitudinal scriptures belong to internal learning (esoteric learning).
Therefore, Confucianism is not only a philosophy, but also a religion. Confucianism not only talks about spiritual science, but also the afterlife. After death, the body and soul rest on the earth, but the soul is immortal and goes to heaven to "be at the emperor's side."
Confucianism has the concept of soul.
After death, the body and soul go to the earth, and the soul goes to heaven to be around God.
Where can I read about what you said about Xunzi disbelief in an afterlife? Thank you for the video
Campany, Robert F., 1992, “Xunzi and Durkheim as Theorists of Ritual Practice”, Discourse and Practice, Frank Reynolds and David Tracy (eds), Albany, NY: State University of New York Press, 197-231.
There are so much knowledge and this gives me anxiety.
Confucianism has both classics and latitudinal books. Confucian classics belong to explicit learning (external learning), while Confucian latitudinal scriptures belong to internal learning (esoteric learning).
Therefore, Confucianism is not only a philosophy, but also a religion. Confucianism not only talks about spiritual science, but also the afterlife. After death, the body and soul rest on the earth, but the soul is immortal and goes to heaven to "be at the emperor's side."
Confucianism has the concept of soul.
After death, the body and soul go to the earth, and the soul goes to heaven to be around God.
目前世界有640万虔诚信仰儒教的信徒。
儒教在香港是合法的六大宗教之一。比如：香港政府承认的儒教、道教、佛教、回教、基督教、天主教。
在印尼也是官方承认并纳入政府管理资助的六大宗教之一。比如：印尼有政府承认并为此服务的宗教有回教、基督教、天主教、印度教和儒教。There are currently 6.4 million devout Confucian believers in the world.
Confucianism is one of the six legal religions in Hong Kong. For example: Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, and Catholicism recognized by the Hong Kong government.
In Indonesia, it is also one of the six major religions officially recognized and included in government management and funding. For example: The religions recognized and served by the Indonesian government include Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, Hinduism and Confucianism.
Which English translations of the Analects do you like? Do you have a preferred colloquial Chinese translation?
Edward Slingerland's translation.
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy Thanks. Do you have an opinion on Simon Leys' trandlastion?
@@erotzoll I think his translation is mediocre.
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy Thanks. I ordered a copy of the one you recommended.
Genius
This is a really wonderful introduction to the life and ideas of Confucius! The "Six Themes" is especially helpful for getting a grasp of the Big Picture. But the portrayal of Socrates and Plato is a bit two-dimensional - to put it politely.
There are many different ways that people read Plato, and we'll never know what Socrates himself actually thought. My presentation is the way most people have read Plato over the last few millennia.
here for Confucius, stayed for the dog
Story of my career! :-)
I read “Confucius from the Heart” when I was a teenager and even though I ain’t and wasn’t even slightly a Confucian by any means, the book changed my life.
That's great! What touched you?
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy I guess it was the completely different worldview than what I was used to. Also the focus on harmonious relationships and peaceful societies is what I found to be quite inspirational. Not something that I thought too much about at the time.
I've heard the Chinese name is Kung Fuzi or something like that. How come you say 'Kungzi'?
The most common way of saying his name in Chinese is "Kongzi" (meaning Master Kong), but there is a rare honorific form of his name which is "Kong Fuzi" (also meaning Master Kong), and Jesuit missionaries based the Latinization of his name on that.
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy Ok I see.
DIEGO!
He's adorable and he knows it!
Opium was illegal in Britain.
I've listened to a few lecture online, the speaker is a professor in taiwan, his name is Fu PeiRong. Prof Fu provided a great point of view in one of his lecture, saying that what we(here he obviously refer to mainland chinese and taiwan chinese) known as confucious and confucianism is merely a second hand studied made in the han dynasty, the song dynasty and ming dynasty. None of their studied is the real confucious philosophy but ideology tool used by chinese empire and government. If we really want to dive into the wisdom of confucian and mengzi, we should skip every school of thoughts after the death of confucious and mengzi, because no one, not even when confucious were alive, understand his pihlosophy(maybe laozi understood him?), what he really meant.
The present monent which Prof Fu refers to now, is an era where chinese government no longer use confucianism as tools to rule over china, so it is a great chance academically and philosophically , to really learn the orgin of confucious philosophy, read the book LunYu by itself, not with all those annotated second hand studies.
Prof Fu learned western philosophy as well as eastern philosophy back when he was yound, also he explains his points with perfect logic and reason, so I agree to him.
It's spelled "Confucius" in English.
1. Great lecture on China's greatest sage, though I think it would have been even better if a few of the myths and legends regarding him were in the lecture, such as the _qilin_ which visited his mother before his birth. Also I think the _metaphysical_ side of Confucianism could be touched upon as well; the vision of 'forming a trinity with Heaven and Earth' found in the _Doctrine of the Mean_ is surely metaphysically loaded. (The 19th-century Scottish scholar James Legge, who translated the Confucian canon into English, was greatly offended by this vision. :) )
2. I have my doubts just how seriously one can take Xi Jinping and his infernal minions when they profess to be pro-Confucian. If anything they seem as anti-Confucian to me in the way they've been running things as anyone can get.
3. How appropriate do you reckon it would be to speak of Mencius as 'the Saint Paul of Confucianism'?
4. You look a bit like Winston Churchill.
I think works like the Doctrine of the Mean are only important for later Confucianism, but I do talk about the metaphysics of Confucianism in my lectures on Neo-Confucianism.
So after working on keeping the country safe for years, I can’t take a week off to relax with my new dancing girls?
It is rather confusing!
💚🐉🇨🇳🐉💚
He should have been given an English name "kown Fu Tsie"
孔子出生在贵族家庭，他的先祖是殷商皇室国王的儿子，被分封到宋国当国王，后来孔子的祖先之一在宋国被人杀害，孔子的祖先为了躲避宋国的宫廷斗争，逃离宋国来到鲁国生活，到孔子爷爷时就成为小贵族了，他的爸爸是一位武士，威武勇敢，为鲁国立下赫赫战功，在，孔子本人身材高大魁伟，身高达一米九0高，他是射箭高手，会驾驶战车，孔子能文能武，是一宗师。
孔子不但是思想家、政治家、哲学家、教育家，也会是宗教家，他崇拜上帝\天，喜欢祭祀上帝和祖先。Confucius was born in an aristocratic family. His ancestor was the son of the king of the Yin and Shang royal families. He was enfeoffed to the Song Dynasty as king. Later, one of Confucius' ancestors was killed in the Song Dynasty. Confucius' ancestors fled to avoid the court struggle of the Song Dynasty. The Song Dynasty came to live in the Lu State, and became a minor aristocrat by the time of Confucius' grandfather. His father was a warrior, mighty and brave, and made great military exploits for the Lu State. Confucius himself was tall and burly, with a height of 1.90 meters. He was an expert in archery and could drive a chariot. Confucius was a great master in both literature and martial arts.
Confucius was not only a thinker, politician, philosopher, and educator, but also a religious figure. He worshiped God and Heaven and liked to sacrifice to God and ancestors.
There are many later legends about Confucius. Most of them are probably myths, though.
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy
Confucius really believed in God. He behaved differently from other children since he was a child. He liked to sacrifice to God as a child. The game he played was to sacrifice to God. He also engaged in the funeral industry for a period of time to make a living. Isn't this a myth? This is Confucian classics and records. Therefore, Confucius has the talent to believe in religion.
Confucius was born in an aristocratic family. His ancestor was the son of the king of the Yin and Shang royal families. He was enfeoffed to the Song Dynasty as king. Later, one of Confucius' ancestors was killed in the Song Dynasty. Confucius' ancestors fled to avoid the court struggle of the Song Dynasty. The Song Dynasty came to live in the Lu State, and became a minor aristocrat by the time of Confucius' grandfather. His father was a warrior, mighty and brave, and made great military exploits for the Lu State. Confucius himself was tall and burly, with a height of 1.90 meters. He was an expert in archery and could drive a chariot. Confucius was a great master in both literature and martial arts.
Confucius was not only a thinker, politician, philosopher, and educator, but also a religious figure. He worshiped God and Heaven and liked to sacrifice to God and ancestors.
There are many stories about Confucius. Most of them are later myths, unfortunately.
Confucius say "man who eats crackers in bed at night, wake up and feels crummy all day'
Hmmm, I don't know anything about Socrates or Confuscius, but how is some metaphorical allusion to dying as being a necessary aspect of the *profession of a philosopher*, in any sense meant to encapsulate the broader notion of what is the best kind of life, let alone be contrastable with some Confucian sense of it? It sounded more like Socrates' own example implied that the more virtuous/best kind of life was to ask questions and think for yourself such that he literally died to make this point. Sure "dying" might better facilitate being a philosopher in terms of a *profession*, but to then generalize it out side that limited sphere is a bit like generalizing the notion that because having big muscles aids you professional abilities as a stone mason, then logically the best kind of life is to be swoll AF lol.
Read the Phaedo, and you'll see that the quotation means what I suggest that it means. 🙂
@@BryanVanNordenPhilosophy Hi and thanks for replying. I don't doubt the interpretation of the quote, I'm just not sure how "dying" for the "profession" of philosophy, implies anything about the best kind of life in some deeper sense. Given Socrates was corrupting impressionable minds telling them the goal is to ask questions and think for themselves, you'd think that was the aspirational underpinning of the best kind of life from his point of view. If his students didn't think for themselves and question the very notion of "dying" for the profession, Socrates surely would have failed them lol. I'm sorry I just randomly clicked your video, and thought the comparison seemed a bit incongruous on some level. Like I mentioned I don't know much about these guys, so forgive my impertinence, - I'm coming from a place of relative ignorance for sure lol. All the same, I enjoyed you presentation. Cheers and go well.
1:01:31 interesting parallel between this and Plato's 'Euthyphro' dialogue. Shame Mr Norden did not elavorate on it
Confucius had a difficult childhood on account of having lost his father in a very patriarcal society, her mother being allowed none of the weath of her husband presumably. Did this have any impact on his teachings? 20:15 Men and boys enjoy a lovely spring day outing to the river...would women have been allowed to do likewise?