Finnish vs Võro | Can they understand each other? | feat.
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2023
- In this video, we explore similarities and differences between Võro and Finnish, examining the factors that contribute to their mutual intelligibility. Through engaging language challenges, we aim to showcase the linguistic connections and enhance our understanding of these unique languages.
Võro and Finnish are both Finno-Ugric languages belonging to the Uralic language family. Võro is primarily spoken in the southeastern region of Estonia, while Finnish is the official language of Finland. Despite being separate languages, they share a close linguistic relationship and exhibit mutual intelligibility to some extent.
Mutual intelligibility refers to the ability of speakers of closely related languages to understand each other to varying degrees without prior knowledge or extensive exposure. In the case of Võro and Finnish, speakers of one language may be able to comprehend certain words, phrases, or even entire sentences when listening to or reading the other language. This is due to the historical and linguistic similarities between the two languages.
Join us on this linguistic journey as we celebrate the rich diversity of Finno-Ugric languages and uncover the fascinating relationship between them. Whether you are a speaker of one language or simply interested in languages and their connections, this video offers an exciting exploration of mutual intelligibility and the intricate ties that bind Finno-Ugric languages together.
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#learnvoro #learnfinnish #languagechallenge #languages
It was fascinating to hear Aleksi talk himself out of guessing "spoon" because he thought spoons can't be made of wood for some reason.
I know nothing of either language so I followed with English titles. I agree that Aleksi talked himself out of knowing the answers, but when Aleksi gave clues he did so spontaneously and augmented his clues when asked to do so. Riivo (sic, I should have written down his name before I started this comment - I'm not up to anyone's challenge 😂) read from a script, then mostly (except for the "folding" part) repeated the reading verbatim and I think even a little faster with each reading which really wasn't as helpful as the spontaneous approach.
I didn't realize that some single-use spoons are made out of wood. I was just thinking about regular spoons in the kitchen. :D
@@AleksiHimself Or the wooden spoons you can use for stirring a pot 😁 Anyway lets not stirr the pot too much here. You understood quite a lot which was impressive! Karelian would be an interesting challenge too. But I guess it would a bit easier than Võro .
@@AleksiHimself I recommend visiting any museum which shows Finnish traditional culture (kotiseutumuseo), they are full of artefacts made of wood, also for cooking. In rural society living in the middle of forests, wood was always available and it was easy to carve.
@@AleksiHimself The word "spoon" originally meant "wood chip"... It is cognate with the Danish/Swedish "spån" which means wood chip/shaving (from using an axe or a plane).
I'm a Finn and I guessed the Võro words almost right away😄 Aleksi was maybe overthinking too much.
Antti here from the Finnish-Estonian video. Võro seems significantly harder for me than Estonian. :D
As Estonian, I sometimes understood Finnish better than Võro
@@PeataPoeet Wow, that's really interesting!
Yes, as Professor Lang points out, Southern Estonian split first,.and Finnish and Estonian much later.
You did great in that video! And I love Tampere, too. 😁 I hope I can visit it again soon. Terveisiä Kanadasta!
im from south-eastern finland and i find võro a lot easier than estonian
Thanks Norbert for giving me the opportunity to do this challenge with Riivo! I was surprised how close I eventually got with the hints.
Aleksi I dont get how you didnt regognize hand towel. We have many public toilets paper hand towels, not unknown to you I assume. Also on first part there was suppi=soppa and kats puult could be regognizable. For pikk you maybe have to know same Estonian put its pitkä. Also seems like you are unfamiliar of wooden spoons, but they were quite common on past.
I think that Alexei did quite great.
Estonian and Finnish both seem to have certain vocabulary shift from east to west - dialects and languages which are to the east seem to share more of certain common vocabulary (eg: animal names).
Võro for Estonian is about like Vepsan for a Finn...
Awesome, I am an 82 year old refugee from Estonia living in Canada, and found the VIRU language challenging, also a big help in understanding Finnish.❤🇪🇪
Tervist ja jaksu Kanada eestlastele! Et meie kaunis emakeel säiliks ka sealpool ookeanit!
I think Antti would have understood more if he had thought Voro as more like an old, distant Finnish dialect, for example “käterätt” could as well be called ”käsirätti” in some parts of Finland (in fact my grandpa used to call it that way). There were numerous other examples too but that’s just something that came to my mind first. I was able to guess all the words as a Finnish speaker. To be fair, it’s stressful to be doing this publicly so respect for that. Btw, my wife has learned a lot of Finnish because of you Antti! So thanks for that 🙏
I'm Finnish and guessed spoon almost instantly... tho it's much easier when you see the subtitles
I started learning Karelian language a couple of years ago (my ancestors spoke it), and I cannot help but see similarities in Võro ("kieleh", "ku", "puust", "moñi", etc.). It would be very cool to see a video "Võro vs Karelian", I would guess that there was a higher mutual intelligibility after all :)
Absolutely! That would be really interesting to see in my opinion as well, my granpa was from Karelia but had to flee when germans burned their villages. But the Karelian language still stayed in him at least to some degree, and it was often interesting for me to hear him speaking because of it whenever we visited our grandparents :) I personally live really close to the North-Karelia myself, only about 1 hour drive away and bits of it can still be heard in our dialect as well.
It's awesome to see Norbert branching his efforts further into other language families. While many of the Uralic languages diverged from their proto-languages much longer ago than, say, the Slavic or Romance languages, comparing them against each other is a fascinating exercise!
You've chosen great people for this, Norbert. I like how they would were thinking out-loud when trying to figure out the word. It made it more interesting.
i really agree with this.
they interacted a lot in that way, and i think this improved communication a lot
Yeah some people figure out stuff by thinking about it aloud, i do it too
One reason it was easier for Riivo to understand was probably that he also knows Estonian. So even if a Võro word was different, the Estonian one could still be similar to Finnish. Knowing more related languages helps, I guess. (I guess it's impossible to find a Võro speaker that doesn't know Estonian as well.)
Would be interesting to hear a Meänkieli or even Kveeni speaker one day on the channel, to see how it goes the other way around 😀
south Estonian Võro is closer to Finnish, not Estonian
@user-zg8wg6nk5y Is it? Maybe the grammatical structure is, but here it sounded like there were fewer lexical cognates than in the other video, and that's what helps out most in this kind of adhoc understanding exercise.
Or maybe Aleksi just picked easier words 😀
You are absolutely correct, it always helps. Same with dialects. Finnish speakers can use many local variants and archaic words from poetic language. For example Estonian word *kaitse* means e.g. defence (verb: kaitsma) and is easy to remember as a Finn, because in Finnish we use the same verb about protecting and herding cattle. Also Finnish Biblical word *kaitselmus* about God's guidance has clear connection to it.
@@user-zg8wg6nk5y A lot of people seem to think so, possibly because Võro and Finnish both have vowel harmony unlike standard Estonian, but I don’t think it's really true when it comes to grammar or vocabulary. I believe North Estonian probably shares more features with Finnish than Võro does with Finnish.
@@kihutaja9873 When I first started to learn Estonian as a native Finnish speaker, listening to it was always much harder than reading. Võro didn't open to me yet then, but now that I listen to every day standard Estonian news etc., I can understand most of the Võro speech (it depends on subject). Listening to it is often easier than reading because of different ortography. And it is always nice to find familiar words and features with Finnish, even if standard Estonian probably shares more of them, as you said. (And I would use the term "North Estonian", but normally I am in contact with the Northern standard language.)
As an Estonian who understands only little bit of Võro through childhood exposure Im really excited for this video even before clicking play. Its going to be a treat, thanks for doing a video on these two languages.
As a Pole learning Estonian I guessed the spoon.
I am a Finn and was guessing a plate or a spoon but would have decided on the spoon. The second was very easy for me and I guessed it only after two sentences but I knew the Estonian word for ”fabric” rõivad and I was immediately also thinking about paper towels in the public bathrooms. Those are still called ”pyyhe” or ”paperipyyhe” in Finnish but somehow Aleksi couldn’t figure that out. I loved this challenge. It’s also a fun game to challenge myself although a bit easier when I can see the text. I tried not to read the English subtitles, though.
As a Finnish person i understood all the Võro clues almost immediately. I find Võro way more understandable than Estonian.
For me it was the other way around haha
@@sam_k Antti from the Finnish - Estonian video said the same as you in his comment. 😅
Same but in opposite side
Yes, Võro should technically be easier for Finns to understand as it is more archaic than Estonian.
As an Estonian it was surprisingly difficult to understand Võro, I expected to get more from the spoken description of the words and yet nope.
Also, it’s interesting that both Estonian and Finnish calls the paper towels the “house care paper” when translated directly. It’s a relatively new thing and yet we still match in the approach 👍
Pretty proud of myself for guessing both of them correctly. Finnish isn't even my first language.
Had no issues with wooden spoons as they're fairly common in my opinion, especially in summer houses or for larger kitchen utensils.
Didn't struggle with the towels being paper either, but admittedly I made use of my knowledge that they're called "paper towel" in English there.
It makes sense that ancient words like those for "star" and "moon" share much closer ties between the languages than more recent words do.
Large kitchen utensils are not called spoon in Finnish :DD Sure there are disposable wooden spoons, but nobody uses those.
@@tommytowner792 Not sure where you got that interpretation from, it's certainly not what I said though.
@@balticwater Finnish people would use the word kauha for wooden spoon-like utensils.
@@tommytowner792 Spoon was just a descriptive word I used because I couldn't think of the correct English term. Ladle.
Thanks for video, Norbert. As Karelian, I guesses all words, but understood Võro only because I speak Estonian as well. Also been able to read text on both languages helped a lot.
Puhutko vienan, aunuksen tai liivin karjalaa äidinkielinenäsi? Kuinka lähellä nää on suomenkieltä?
@@user-ce6iy2nw5o Valitettavasti, en puhu. Tiedän vain monta sanaa. Olen syntynyt Siperiassa ja siellä puhuttiin vain venäjäksi. Nyt asun Virossa, osaan viron kieltä ja opiskelen myös karjalan ja suomen kieltä.
I had an Estonian friend who served in an Estonian battalion in WW2. He said they would screen prisoners for Finno-ugric speakersss. He said they spoke "Stone Age Finnish"
I'm polish but I also speak English and Finnish and my best friend is Estonian so this is gonna be interesting to watch :)
Jestem Finem ale mieszkam w Polsce :P
@@Basheez Siis oikeasti?? :) Kuinka pitkään oot asunut Puolassa? Ja saisinko kysyä missä päin asut? ^^ Onko puola vaikea kieli sinusta? Kauheasti kysyttävää mutta kun kiinnostaa aika paljon totta puhuen :D
@@anomalyahblack1515 Puhun tarpeeksi hyvin että voin mennä esimerkiksi mihin tahansa urządiin asioimaan tai lääkärille.
@@Basheez Itse oon asunut Suomessa vähän päälle 10 vuotta ja pakko sanoa, että suomi on todella vaikea kieli! Erityisesti kun on olemassa kirjakieli ja sitten puhekieli, joka on täysin eri asia :D Sen takia olen erittäin ylpeä itsestäni, että pääsin YKI testin ylimmän tason (5) jo yli 6 vuotta sitten. Suomi on kyllä vaikea, mutta tosi kaunis kieli :)
@@anomalyahblack1515 ja już chyba nie zdążę się nauczyć mojego ulubionego fińskiego, bo muszę doszlifować kilka innych, a czasu mało :( Po tych 10 latach w Finlandii wyglądasz jak Finka :D mroźnie i tajemniczo. Pozdrawiam
As a finn, I'd really like to see the language quatro of finnish-estonian-karelian-võro but I guess thats not happening any time soon because the karelian language has almost gone to extinsion so it could be very hard to find genuine speakers of karelian language..
maybe even add livonian to the mix
У карельского языка 4 диалекта: Тверской, Людиновский, ливвиковский и собственно карельский.
С каким диалектом вы бы хотели встретиться? В Карелии самый распространённый-ливвиковский (там же и Олонец-единственный город с преобладание карел в республике)
Umm... In response but maybe more in anticipation of possible further comments in similar vein, usually stemming from bona fide Finnish ignorance: First of all, you can already speak about several Karelian languages, like @antonmurtazaev5366 said, or at least very strong dialectical main varieties. Very different in terms of mutual intelligibility with Finnish. And many of them are alive and relatively well considering the situation. I don't know what you mean by "genuine" speakers exactly, but it would be most natural that any native Karelian-speakers used Russian as their primary everyday language. Also, I'd imagine a lot of Finns would perceive them as having a heavy "Russian accent". This could be true of course, but not necessarily in the sense understood by many Finns: sounding "Russian" doesn't mean they couldn't be "genuine" speakers of "real" Karelian, as if they just couldn't pronounce their language "correctly", sounding like Russians trying to speak Karelian, or whatever.
What I mean is that while geographical closeness to the Slavic/Russian world quite naturally ended up influencing the development of Karelian and its dialects in various ways, it doesn't make a native speaker suddenly non-native any more than, say, the relatively more recent (and stronger) language connection between habitants of South-Western Finland and Northern Estonia makes the Homo Åboensis more Estonian than Finnish. Or think about Breton, for example, and how "French" it sounds. A lot of the divergence of Karelian from Finnish is not Slavic-influenced at all, and in any case, the Slavic/Russian influence there is (such as palatalization) has been building up basically *all the time*, more or less, from Proto-Karelian up to the current Karelian languages/dialects.
As a Latvian who is trying to learn Finnish but don't feel like a really learned a lot, I am surprised that I guessed all 4 words. Also some words in Latvian are similar to Võro, which also helped me to guess. Like māja, zupa and putra for example.
It’s because of finnic influence through livonian
Me too and I could do it earlier than Aleksi or Riivo! My other option for the second word was lääkärikeskus.
I guess, we, Latvians, have seen more wooden spoons as Finns, that was also helpful.
I believe, if it’s a foreign language, it requires more effort for the brain to work on, but in this case, it was also more precise.
Btw, I did not read the text, just listened to the pronunciation.
@@Rasytojas1980there's similar influence the other way around.
@@koijjotsabout the wooden spoons - it is generational.
Eg: when I was a toddler, growing up in a farmstead with grandparents, mine grandpa teached me to carve out mine own spoon, to plough mine first "strie” with the horse, to weave baskets, etc.
Mine much younger brothers, grown up in an apartment, barely know anything about those things beyond that those things once existed.
The same is true with language. I'm a dialect speaker, having gained it from mine grandparents (most of mine childhood was spent with them) - but mine brothers can't even imitate the dialect (but to understand when spoken). Mine language, including the literary is rather pure - but mine brothers is full of slangish expressions and other weirdnesses of the kind.
Contemporary "gamerspeech” is irritating to mine brothers and non-intelligible “pudikeel” for me (to the point that switching over to any other commonly known foreign language is lot easier option).
Võro vs Vepsä would be cool, thank You!
I hope that on this channel I will see more comparisons of Finno-Ugric languages! Good content
käterätt sounds like käsirätti. Käsirätti means literally "hand rag" in finnish
And in Estonian, käsi rätik (hand towel). That's what I guessed, or handkerchief 😅
"Paperist" threw me off too. Good job guys!
Loving these Finno-Ugric videos!
Absolutely love these videos! Mutual intelligibility of the Finno-Ugric languages is quite the rabbit hole topic, but I didn't know about the Võro dialect, that's so interesting.
This was interesting, even though I'm not a Finno-Ugric speaker. It seems that the Finnish word for "spoon" - "lusikka" (and perhaps the Voro "luits") is borrowed from the Russian "ложка" ("ložka"). I know Finnish has some funny-sounding loanwords from Russian, like "risti" (Russian "крест" ("krest")) - "a cross", which can tell something about our common history.
Приветствую
Так еще слово Лекар..Leekar ..шведское..
Похоже из украинского...лikar
Польского..lekarz...лекаж
Чешского ..lêkar...
@@yaroslav9217 есть ещё русское лекарь. В эстонском оно тоже было (lääkäri), но было вытеснено немецким arst, или ещё говорят tohter.
Yeah, both lusikka and risti are Slavic loans into Finnish. Not necessarily Russian per se (they’re from Old East Slavic), but definitely cognates of Russian ло́жка and крест.
@@yaroslav9217Finnish lääkäri is borrowed directly from Swedish läkare, and the Slavic cognates are typically viewed as an early Germanic loan.
@@kyberorg лекарь в славянские языки проникло из готского языка, как и сам суффикс "-арь"(-ari), а в германские языки он попал из латыни (-arius как в латинском слове notarius).
Thank you for a great challenge! It was very nice to see that during the conversation the speakers started to learn what the other knows and use those words. This is a strategy based on co-operation, and it worked very well!
I am a native Finnish speaker. In my ear Võro sounds so similar to Estonian that I would not be sure if someone speaks Estonian or Võro.
I guessed both words in Võro quite easily.
I get that he didn't understand the paper *towel* thing, because in Italian we also don't call that with the same word as towel. It seems crazy to think of disposable kitchen paper as a towel 😂
Even in English, we don't really think of paper towels as a subset of towels. They're similar in that they're both used for drying something and it's obvious why the names are similar, but if I ask for a towel, I'm definitely not expecting a paper towel. It's similar to how if I say I went to visit my family by car, there is zero chance I mean I rode in a train car.
Im a finn and even i guessed toilet paper. With just the sound as i like it.
And also we dont think it like that…neither does he. You should really just read the subtitles properly😂😂 he just misunderstood it because the finnish and võro words for cloth are very different and then the word for paper is practically the same so.. its very understandable why he said toilet paper.
@@chitlitlah what?
mm, in Finnish its towel is pyyhe and hand towel is käsipyyhe.I dont get how he didnt regognize it due we have paper hand towels so many public toilets.
Yay, another video featuring Finnish! I love that language so much.
Kolejny wspaniały film, bardzo lubię testy, które Pan wykonuje. Aż duma mnie rozpiera, że jest to w głównym stopniu projekt z Polski! ❤ Wcześniej nie słyszałem o języku võro.
These are really fun videos. I especially like trying to guess along.
Just heard the Finnish word for 'doctor' obviously derived alongside the Swedish word 'Lakare'.
Yes, it sounded like "Laege" in Danish also, but in some areas, the term "Doktor" is used.
actually quite similar to a lot of slavic languages, in interslavic the word would be “lěkaŕ”
The same word was borrowed from Gothic language into Slavic languages. We (South Slavs) say lijek for medicine and liječnik for doctor.
That stuck out to me, too! I think "lääkäri" specifically is borrowed directly from modern Swedish, but the Finnic languages in general have many loanwords from the Proto-Germanic period that are thousands of years old. Fascinating.
Yes.......
In ukrainian language,.: Likar
In polish : Lèkarz
In slovak : Lĕkaŕ
Native English speaker trying to learn Finnish. I got both Finnish words, and figured out the Võro words partly from Aleksi’s discussion of what he understood (then deducted that the Võro words ending ‘st’ were from/made from). ‘Kuivas’ I understood as ‘kuiva’ straight away. The subtitles helped enormously too.
Extremely good👍Erittäin hyvä.From the House. Talosta but usually /in normal discussion(vulgar way) we say ”talost” in finnish. Aslike in front of the House, talon edessä= talo ees, talon edes, d sounds like t. I noticed that Võro -st.
I love Aleksii's channel
As an Estonian it interesting to compare Finnish, võro and Estonian language.
Cool video
Funny that "luits" means spoon in Võro, in French "louche" means the deep, 90° angled spoon one uses to serve soup
Очень интересно, сама из Эстонии, но живу в Финляндии!!!
Pyyhe = towel
Käsipyyhe = hand towel
Käsipyyhepaperi = hand towel paper
I don't know how he didn't get that, those are everyday words, I mean really ordinary words. 💀
I also worder why he didn't know about "puulusikka" (wooden spoon). 🤔
Ps. I didn't read the subtitles, but I understood much more than him, especially about the towel. My guesses were a spoon "lusikka" and a hand towel "käsipyyhe".
I understood a couple words more than him (but I don’t have the stress of being watched) and managed to get the words. I don't think käsipyyhepaperi is a common word to call it, though, at least not where I live. I knew spoon can be made of wood, but I wasn't sure the paper ones count as a towel, which is why I had some doubts about my guess. But I knew that at least in English they are towels, so I thought that they might be in some other languages too. In Finnish I haven't heard them called that, it's always just some type of paper. (talouspaperi, keittiöpaperi, käsipaperi, maybe even just paperi)
@@TM-ng2bz How about those in the public bathrooms? At least I call those as "käsipyyhepaperi" and those ones in rolls at home, usually in the kitchen as "talouspaperi".
@@leopartanen8752 I just call them käsipaperi. If it's cloth, I call it käsipyyhe. I haven't heard käsipyyhepaperi. It's like a combination of the two.
I have been learning Finnish for two years, and this morning I've learned about the existence of the Voro language in a French linguistics book. Are you telepaths?
What a coincidence! 😄
Those challenges where the participants actually struggle to understand each other, more or less, are the best
Excellent video! As in similar cases, there is the discussion of whether Võro is a language or a dialect of Estonian.
It is language.
Discussion is over long ago - võro is a language.
Definitely Võro is a separate language: DECISION OF THE 1ST CONGRESS OF THE VÕRO PEOPLE
ON THE RIGHTS OF THE VÕRO LANGUAGE,
VÕRO-LANGUAGE EDUCATION, MEDIA, CULTURE
AND PUBLIC USAGE OF THE VÕRO LANGUAGE
Adopted in the town of Võro, on 22 April, 2023
The Congress of the Võro People declares that the Võro language is an Indigenous
language of Vana-Võromaa, an indigenous mother tongue of the Võro people and the
principal foundation of the identity of the Võro people. The Congress emphasises that the
Võro language is an Indigenous regional language that for the Võro people has equal
importance with the Estonian language. The Võro language is not a dialect or regional
variant of the Estonian language.
Explanation. According to linguistics, the Võro language is both today as well as historically
a clearly different language from Estonian (see publications by Petri Kallio, Karl Pajusalu,
Tapani Salminen). The Võro language is less distinct from other South Estonian languages
but very clearly differs in terms of the speakers’ identity. Internationally, the Võro language
has been officially recognised as a separate language (ISO language code vro), but in Estonia
so far has not. Based on academic research and UNESCO red book on endangered
languages, the Võro language is today a seriously endangered language. For the
preservation of the Võro language it is necessary for the state and municipalities to
recognise it, to treat the Võro language more seriously than so far, and to offer greater
support for it in education, media, culture and its public usage.
Thats cool!
I'll have to award Aleksi the wooden spoon for that guess! As someone who speaks some Finnish, this was very interesting, and I understood very little of the Võro :D
Typical foreigner laughing at someone for not being similar to your useless country.
Interesting, that Võro word 'putra' - porridge has the same meaning in Latvian. In Lithuanian this word also is present with similar although slightly different meaning - sticky mud. (Sometimes porridge is very much like that.) Who borrowed from whom?
Finnic speakers borrowed it from the Baltics couple thousand years ago. There are about 200 old Baltic loan words from this time in the Finnic languages.
The Baltic languages have borrowed much less words from the Finnic languages, but there are some major ones like laiva and puika.
Sending it to Estonian friend, I'm waiting for how much he'll get from this.
Greetings from Estonia my polish friend
Lusikka sounds similar to Polish "łyżka"...
Siemanko,,,Tez po ukraińsku..rusku : łożka
the word in Finnic languages is borrowed from Slavic
@@ryanchon8702 aha.......yes
Greets from ukraine
@@yaroslav9217Greetings from Estonia
My guy hasn't heard of a wooden spoon 😂
maybe he skipped the wood working class. :D
Nobody calls large kitchen utensils you stir food with spoons like in English.
@@tommytowner792 😂 another city person who isn't familiar with wooden spoons. As I said, it's a generational and a regional issue. I guarantee you that wooden spoons used to be the standard
Norbert, make the following video Finnish vs Udmurt))
Käterätt could be like "Käsi Rätti" in Finnish
Could you please do same challenge between old Võro language speaker and young posh social media influencer from Tallinn. Same nation, same country, same language, except dialect.
Mõtõq um hüä, a võro siski murrõq olõ-õi. Sama riik meil külh, a eesti kiil ja võro kiil ummaq iks esiq keeleq. Üts olõ-õi tõõsõ murrõq.
Ha! I guessed that the first word was "spoon", even though I have never heard this Võro language before.
both Võro clues were super easy for me to guess as a finnish speaker
This is the language group that I have the least exposure to, so I broke after 2 minutes, and put on the subtitles. I usually try to play the game, but unlike the Brythonic, Germanic, Romance, and Slavic groups - I’ve never studied a Finno-Ugric language. I’ve heard Finnish a lot, mostly from rally co-drivers, watching WRC as a kid, but I understand nothing. Then, suddenly on the second word, I was surprised that the Finnish for “doctor” and “pharmacy” are incredibly similar to the Ukrainian «лікар»(likar) and «аптека»(apteka)! Now I’m very curious as to the etymology of those words? Are the borrowed into Finnish from the Slavic languages? Apteka, ultimately comes from the Greek “apotheke”, and Likar is an old Slavic root. I’m genuinely curious.
Actually I realized that too this week. And my theory is that comes from Viking times, due Finnish "lääkäri" is from Swedish word "läkare".
Those come from Swedish. Likari is early loan to Slavic from Germanic languages (eg: Gothic). In past this word was in Estonian too, but Germanic arst and tohter have pushed it to history.
Lusika is loaned to Finnic languages from Old Slavic.
There's approximately some 7% of root vocabulary that is loaned to Finnish and Estonian from or via Slavic languages (many older Greek loans originate through that route - eg: rist) - there's about as many from Baltic.
But the most loans are through or via Germanic languages (including older Latin and French loans, like: sandalid and miljöö).
@@dimitrijfedorov5405 correct assumption. There's ‹tohter› too. And ‹põetaja› gets close in the meaning as well.
Finnish has also word tohtori, which means doctoral degree (ex: PhD). Again, not quite opposite but not synonyms either.
Finnish has a lot of loan words from Russian and Swedish, and old words with roots in Slavic and Germanic languages. Like 'kuningas' (meaning king), from Proto-Germanic 'kuningaz'. In Dutch it's 'koning', Old Norse 'konungr', Danish 'konge', Old Saxon and Old High German 'kuning', and German 'könig'. So some older words can be incredibly similar, even though the languages themselves are very different.
Voro is quite hard to understand for me. They express and have words that we don't have in Finnish. But for some reason for me Voro reminds me of little bit like Northern Saami, i mean the intonation or accent is like saami sounding.
But also Voro sounds kinda cute , sympathetic and even poetic. It kinda reminds me of how finnish was expressed like 100 years ago.
Regradless Voro is still understandable for me, it is just weird experience because we rarely or even never hear these rare baltic finnic languages everyday life.
Well,as a non-native estonian speaker,only the first word in Viro "luits" i managed to guess
Compared to Finnish, there's quite a few words in Võro, which are some sort of a synonyms and which are missing a letter or have a different letter or two in them. It's a bit like comparing some Finnish dialect to standard Finnish. Listing synonyms while explaining would probably make it easier to to understand. Especially the ones, which mean something 'ancient', since that's when the languages have parted. I got that the spoon had a longer part from which it's held. Also two sizes, soup and porridge are quite similar in Võro and Finnish. Since Aleksi understood, that the thing is put into the mouth while eating, how could it be a plate? Hospital in Võro sounded like 'hoitomaja' in Finnish, which would be a 'treatment hut' or 'care hut' in Finnish. White, soft, from paper, wipe, hand and dry are pretty much the same in both languages. 'Tend to', 'pruugitas' comes from Swedish 'bruka' , which is also used in spoken Finnish as 'pruukata'. 'Away' are pretty much the same in both languages; 'minemä' and 'menemään'. Paper towel should have been obvious. People don't usually dry their hands to toilet paper.
me, a ((very) northern) estonian watching this: 👁👄👁
I am Hungarian learning Finnish, but I am just at the beginning. I was able to figure out the first Võro word. It was easier for me than for Aleksi, because I also speak German, and understood the word suppi (German: Suppe). In Finnish it's keitto, completely different. I didn't get the hospital, I thought it's prison. Becaue you get there when you don't behave well. Yeah, misunderstood a bit.
:-D Regarding the third one I also think it was toilet paper. My last guess was Pluto. Because it isn't a planet.
Thank you for all of you, guys. I enjoyed this really much. Until know I didn't know that Võro language exists at all.
Szia! word order in estonian lang is little bit different than in finnish. And seems also here: egy szép lányt láttam a buszon. ” yhden sievä neidon näin bussissa” direct version in finnish sounds answer or poetic. ” näin yhden kauniin tytön bussissa ” normal way to speak. ( if there is ”nö ” instead of lány it could be 1% more understable). weird but ”laattam” sounds like ”vaattasin, vahtasin” = used in northern-Finnország. Nem tudom, i’m not Ma’rok vagy (or) magyarul.
4. It was quite easy to guess.
Let's try Latvian versus Samogitian languages (North-West Lithuania).
I'm finlandswedish and my first word was spoon, second guess was plate, so same words but "correct order".
before seeing what the second voro word is, my guess is a (shopping)bag.. Let's see if I'm completely wrong. edit: I was wrong. I was also too fixated on the linnen/paper part
Estonian here- võro is harder than finnish for me 😂
well, as an Estonian, võro is almost as understandable as common Estonian. Never understood why estonians need a translation from Võro.
But I grew up with different dialects (maybe not directly võro)
For me an Estonian who speaks basic Finnish, both Võro and Finnish are as hard and i got all of them pretty easily. I think it is easier for Võro speaker becasue he speaks both Võro and Estonian.
I heard apteeki and thought “sauna”😂. And place where you go to get help and feel better, i caught that general idea, and still thought “sauna” 😅
It is interesting that, although these kindred peoples live almost next to each other, it is very difficult for them to understand each other. For example, I watched a lot of videos on this channel about the Slavic peoples and it seemed to me that they understand each other better, although they live very far from each other.
If I had to guess, I would say it's because various groups of Slavic peoples have been geopolitically connected for centuries, with modern borders solidifying relatively recently. Finnish and Estonian haven't had the same kind of relationship because they don't share a land border, and Finnish speakers will have historically had even less direct exposure to Võro, if any. Also, I think high English proficiency in Finland and Estonia prevents people from trying to communicate using their native languages, while a speaker of a Slavic language is more likely to have experience conversing with speakers of other Slavic languages.
@@ryanchon8702 I think you're right about something. Nevertheless, Finns and Estonians are separated only by the Gulf of Finland. There's something else here. I think Estonians were more influenced by the cultures of other nations than Finns.
@@user-xo9ol5wb1v Only the gulf of Finland? I mean when we lived as tribes . its not like every peasant took boats to helsinki every weekend. it's still quite the distance. they're probably thousands of years apart as languages , fact that it's still somewhat comprehendable is quite neat. But you are also right. We have tons of loanwords. Mostly germanic .
@@Talvekuningas in distant past, via seaways was easier to travel and trade than to roam through the woods and bogs. When speaking of the past, never underestimate the role of the sea and it's value for having contacts.
Nonetheless, this applies to coastal areas for most - less so to the regions that are further inland.
Finnish and Estonian seem to be diverged by being under different dominions of the competing empires, as well as having alternate routes with their development of orthography. Many differences that are between the languages, especially in vocabulary, are actually fairly late development.
As for loans from other languages - yes, Estonia's surroundings have been more international.
But Estonian and Finnish actually have approximately same amounts of what's loaned from where. It's another matter, whom makes more active usage of these loans.
Võro? Noch nie davon gehört 😃
Дякую за відео! 💙💛
Вдачі та всього найкращого!
Finally Voro. You are doing crazy good jobs. Waiting for if other Baltics can understand Prussian, Samogitian and Latgalian.
First one seemed like it would be easy for him, since he got the main parts! Just cause it's not common doesn't mean you should rule it out! So close. X3
5:39 This one wasn't translated.
I thought the Võro explanation for towel was easy, I got it on the first try, given I did look at the Võro subtitles so obviously easier that way.
The first one in voro was really easy. I got it the first time. I’m actually really surprised how much similarities there are in these languages. The introduction was super difficult to understand.
My second word guess would be haigla.
Please do Sámi and Suomi since they both have the same ancestors the Proto Finns who
migrated to northern Norway during the Last
Ice Age being distant related to all Native Americans. The Proto Finns are also responsible for bringing blonde hair to Scandinavia.
I know the first word, although I never heard that Vоro dialect before. Nice. It’s lusikas.
Presumably Estonia/Estonian is called Viro/Virolainen in Finnish because of the Võro speakers. A bit like Germany is named after one part of Germany (Saksa).
Northern region of Estonia; Virumaa, finnish version Viro. Because of southern part, Latvians call Estonia ”Ugandi”
Nope, "Viro" comes from the name of "Viru(maa)" in Northern Estonia.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
As someone who speaks finnish and estonian, võro sounds uncanny to me. It's like finnish because of the vowel harmony, but then I only understand most of it through estonian
I'm sure this Võro speaker understand finnish well because he speaks estonian too. I tried to play along as estonian speaker, I cannot speak finnish, but i know few words, that are very different from estonian words, like "lääkäri" and "sairas" and it ruined second word.
Ois Aleksi vetänny oikee leviällä pohjanmaanmurteella :D
"Apteekki"
In English it was also called apothecary. When did people lose this word and turn it to chemist or pharmaceutist?
23:03 Alex thought it was made of paper. Se ei ollut varmaan valmistettu paperista. Vähän niin kuin suomessakin on käsipaperi.
3. Käterätik.
In swedish. It is called Läkare (doctor)
A male doctor.
nice finnougric ritual! lets do more
So in võro, towels can be made of paper, and in Finnish they cannot. In English you have paper towels, but are they towels? Different languages categorize the world differently. If you wanna sound cool, this is the moment to shout: Linguistic Relativity!
🤣
Or as a Chinese contemporary of Aristotle wrote: A white horse is not a horse.
(Gōngsūn Lóng/公孙龙 -- "When is a white horse not a horse" dialogue)
We have hand towels made by paper most of toilets so I cant understand why Aleksi didnt got it.
@@ralepej We have the items, but we don't call them towels. It's just paper
@@TM-ng2bz käsipaperi, talouspaperi, vessapaperi erc. Yes they are all papers but you know from the context what kind of paper people means but everybody should know their actual names.
The only words I understood in the whole thing were metal and plastic 😂 But I don't speak Finnish, Estonian por Voero.
Is the võro language much different from Estonian?
Võro is like 20% easier than Finnish to me. (I am estonian). When I listen to Võro, I sometimes think it's Finnish.
Depending on the linguistic background of an Estonian.
Some aspects that make võro notably easier, is that that Estonian and võro have mutually lot of influences upon oneanother - which goes beyond just vocabulary.
All Estonias below their sixties are well familiar with the standard Estonian.
But: there were some Võro speaking builders in Kihnu just lately - after having showcased their dialect for the locals, they rather shortly found the standard Estonian quite lovely...
Finnish vs Veps or Karelian would be interesting
For karelian, it's kinda opposite as finnish vs estonian. Most words are the same or similar, while few are unrecognizable. Atleast thats my experience
1:54 spoon dooh.... i cant speak these language as estonian...
still understand everythng both are saying, wtf...
this makes me wonder, if i have somekind of talent or profeciency for language...
the sad part is, i dont care about learning foreign language tbh haha.... i like to learn computer/coding languages instead...
(ive watched content like this before and in other channels where the are other languages paired together, wich i have never learned like spanish vs portugese etc... italian vs latin etc...
still could figure out what the word is...) ,
Computer languages has less than 100 words usually. So you should have time to learn Võro 😅
Võro sounden just like Estonian.
IT would not be possible with Hungarian. IT is supposed to be ugro finnish language, but I do not understand a word of these languages.
Ín Hungarian a Star is CSILLAG.
I think Karelian people world be good at this.
Finns should stop speaking the formal version of Finnish and use their own dialects in these. Formal Finnish many times destroyed the commonalities between Finnish and Estonian dialects and makes it harder to understand for Estonians
Aleksi isn't speaking formally at all here. One needs to remember that in real world speech there is not such a hard separation between an informal and formal register as one might very easily assume (even a native speaker). Most people's speech contains elements of both, to a wildly varying degree, depending on every given kind of social situation, personal preference, region etc. Compromising absolutely 100% natural pace, articulation, word choices etc. is perfectly normal when speaking with a non-Finnish speaker, one of countless different social situations. But even considering that, to me Aleksi sounds very casual and natural in an everyday Finnish way.
Yes but apart from literaric language and street language. Are there dialects between what, according to history, where the two, three or even four tribes in Finland. So Häme, Karjala and varsinais suomi? I mean Karelian of course but what about Häme and Varsinais Suomi?
Second question, in the part of Karelia that remained to the Finnish state, so Lappeenranta and Joensuu, do they speak Karelian?
Third one to Norbert: I would like to hear Karelian and Vepsian on this channel.
@@lukib845 The dialects of Finnish-Proper (Varsinais-Suomi) are the most similar to Southern Finnic languages. The people of Joensuu and Lappeenranta don’t speak Karelian, but eastern dialects of Finnish. Speakers of Karelian (edit: they only resided in the most eastern parts of the country before the war, eg. Salmi, Suojärvi, Suistamo, Impilahti, Korpiselkä and Ilomantsi) are spread out around the country due to the evacuation and settling of the people, but the biggest concentrations of speakers can be found in Pohjois-Karjala (North-Karelia), especially in the cities and towns surrounding Lake Pielinen (Valtimo, Nurmes, Lieksa and Joensuu, as you mentioned). Also Pohjois-Savo (North-Savonia) has its concentrations in the Greater Kuopio Area. I speak Livvi and volunteer for a part in the video, if Norbert makes one 😂
@@lukib845No, they don't speak Karelian. They speak Eastern dialects that base on Ancient Karelian. The thing is, that Häme and Karjala were sister dialects of Ancient Finnish and all current dialects base on them or their mixtures. Karelian language is based also on Ancient Karelian. There is a language continuum between Finnish and Karelian. Vienan Karjala Is almost totally intelligible to Finns, especially Eastern Finns. All this information is out there if google it out.
Nää näkyy, he says. But it would be easier if he used "nämä näkyvät"
Voro sounds a bit Latvian
only here cuz of aleksi
its amazing that english is the language that makes it easiest to communicate. english is so useful hopefully the whole world can learn one day
the other guy made it difficult for aleksi