Top 5 Most HARDCORE Hardtails of 2023!
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- When most of people think of hardtails, they imagine a lightweight, carbon fiber XC rocket. And that is NOT what w'ere talking about today -- we're trading in those rockets for full on TANKS with 60 degree headtube angles and 180mm forks! If you've ever wanted a hardtail that can make your buddy's full suspension rig blush, than you're in the right place. Let us know in the comments which of these six heavy hitters you'd choose to ride and why!
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TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 Intro
00:50 Criteria
01:33 5.) Chromag Doctahawk
03:12 4.) On-One Hello Dave
04:33 3.) Ferrum NVHT
06:37 2.) BTR Belter
08:58 Honorable Mention: Kona Honzo ESD
10:25 1.) Shand Ioma
12:48 What video should we do next?
#mtb #hardcorehardtail #hardtail - Sport
I learn a lot from this channel. Thank you!
Thanks for the info on hardtails I’ve purchased a Commercial Meta HT Am Essential and very pleased with it , but you’ve opened the door to extreme possibilities
Nice! That’s a super solid all around bike!
69 degree head angle and 420mm chainstay are the optimal specs for blazing trails.
That’s an unpopular opinion. I’m digging 67.5 - 65
69 way to steep
I prefer a 420 degree head angle and 69mm chainstay personally
This 😂😂
Lol I think your humor may have gone over some heads 😂 too bad those numbers are way to XC to ever make it on a decent trail bike, that’d be a hilarious marketing campaign 😂😂
cool video guys! I've been enjoying the hardtail life so much for the last 2-3 years since I picked up the Commencal Meta, then recently sold and went to the Hello Dave custom build. That thing is a straight beast of a sled for the downhill stuff... and jumps pretty well too!!
Quite a bike for sure!! Can’t wait to try yours haha
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy hell yeah man we’ll make it happen for sure!
This proves that my Pipedream Moxie is a perfectly sensible bike! 63 deg HA and 160mm fork on a singlespeed hardtail (the singlespeed thing was an experiment because it has sliding dropouts but after a year I still haven’t put the gears back on). The 220/200mm 4 pot brakes are probably overkill…
Sounds like my kinda bike 🤘🤘
Ha, I also have a moxie single speed at 160 right now running it mullet, really enjoying it. Thinking of going to 150 when in mullet.
I have the Hello Dave, it's seriously a do-it-all bike, you can take it to jump lines, ride it all over black diamond tech trails while at the same time being a really good climber and I have done 30-40km trips on it.
Nice man, thanks for sharing!!
The thing is… on a hardtail your ha gets 1.5-2 degrees steeper at sag and around 30mm longer reach. A full suspension gets .5- 1 degree slacker and 15mm shorter.
Appreciate your videos Josh & Wendy.
Can you do top 5 all purpose mtb.
Sure!! Just hardtails? Or full squish too? And what price range?
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy ht💥
Amazing list! My idea of a cool Hardcore Hardtail Hardmtnbiker content would be kinda like what Vital MTB does with Bike of the Day. The top 5 bespoke hardtail’s. You would obviously have Ti frames and high end steel and carbon frames but go into the unique designs with detailed 3d printed bits, CNC’d gussets and T47 BB’s, the different types of tubing, maybe other materials like magnesium, stainless steel, or carbon mix frames like EXO grid.
Here is an example of one I thought was interesting a while ago was 44 Frame the was made into a SS with a custom Super-Boost hub from I9 and short ST and a 150mm fork that wasn’t really done back then.
That’d be cool! We did one sorta like that, where we ranked our subscribers’ bikes, check it out: czcams.com/video/9VoskYNfsis/video.html
Id love to see you test ride, and review, some of these bikes.
Haha you and me both! But the channel’s not big enough for freebies and I’m not rich enough for $1,000+ frames
Just bought a second hand 2022 hello dave for £600($720). Very happy 👌
I’m jealous!! Enjoy the bike 🤙
I own the shand. I’m one of the first testers for the frame and I gotta say. While a 58 degree angle sounds stupid. I couldn’t believe how flowy the bike feels sending it down hill. Feels like my downhill motocross bike. I wouldn’t recommend it for doing anything hardcore like jumps or stunts. It can climb but it definitely takes a bit more energy. However, If you just plan on sending it as fast as you can down hill. It’s an experience unlike any other. Highly recommend.
No way man?! That’s awesome! Thank you for letting me know!! Any word on a release date? I feel like I need to try one!
What's a downhill motocross bike? Lol
I was guessing he meant downhill mountain bike lol, maybe autocorrect? 🤷♂️
I love the Norco Torrent
Definitely a rad bike! I included it in this top 10 hardtails list, check it out! czcams.com/video/OHY20bEKbs4/video.html
Next HT review, you should add the Trek Roscoe 9. Def hardcore for a HT
I'd love to throw a leg over that Hello Dave - looks fun :D
Random thought, since short cranks are all the rage right now - might be fun to have a Top 5 with current options!
Good idea! I run 165s and love them!
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy I’m testing 155 Canfields - we’ll see how it goes!
You have to list the stanton switch9ner aswell great steel or titanium frames from the uk and the price is unbeatable
Definitely
Hello Good Day!
I am a hardtail user ever since. I love watching your content every time.
Can you make a review on DARTMOOR HORNET hardtail frame? I think this frame is underrated in some countries but here in the Philippines, it is the go-to hardtail frame for enduro and trail riding. It is also the most popular enduro hardtail frame.
I hope this will get to you and make a good content about this. Thank you in advance.
sweet video!!!!! love hardtails haha.... u should check Army bikes... they are made in Peru but their dh hardtail is a monster... they advertise it with a fox 40 soo... yeah... haha love ur vids keep it on...
Gnarly!! Wish I would have seen that early, definitely would have made the list lol. Frame looks great too!
Dude, those are sick looking
6:46 Hi everyone , that's my bike :)
Nice!! You’ve got one hell of a bruiser 🤙🤙
I've got an on one 45650b. Its kinda hardcore too.
And the pipedream Moxie, orange Crush, Nukeproof Scout, Commencal Meta HT are reeeeeeally hardcore too
All sick bikes for sure! I’ve got videos of most of those on my channel, check em out!
Ferrum is BIG in the Knoxville, Tn scene, I think all the photos of the bike and riding was at Baker Creek
Oh dope! Have you ever ridden one?
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy only once, but man it’s amazing, I’d 100% build one up, they shred
Sick, thanks for sharing 🤙🤙
I'm planning on building one pretty soon, it's gonna be sick
it would have been useful to know if those hta are at sag(what % & travel) or un-sagged. Do you think you can do a list of aggressive XC hardtails please?
I second this request
I believe all those bikes are listed unsagged, which I wish all brand would do! And sure! Do you have a certain price range in mind?
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy maybe have it split in the same vid. The models under $2.5k(either complete or frameset) & the ones over $2.5k?
I like it!!
Hello, there is one brand thay you are missing, and that is the Dartmoor Hornet from Poland. I already bought just the frame in size S, and I feel it just the perfect size for my height. I´m 1.63 mts or 5´4". I found that brand by chance, when I was checking a website and after doing my research of it, I decided to bought one. They also have the Hornet Pro.
Dartmoors are sick! It’s sadly really hard to get any kind of pricing/availability information on them here in the US
Crazy how expensive the hello dave got! it used to be 400euros or less..
My Honzo ESD is plenty wild for me 😂😂 the rest of that list specs are nutty
Haha ya, definitely on the hunt for nuttiest hardtails out there! I wouldn’t personally choose to own any of them, but it’s rad there’s the option!
@Riding With Josh and Wendy oh absolutely, someones gotta push the envelope a bit hahah
I own the ON One Wrekker or it's Titus (Loco Moto) labelled counterpart and it's an incredible, light and rideable up and down (it actually climbs INSANELY well due to the steep seat tube), over long distances, and the stability is unbelievable. this thing goes down as quickly as my enduro intense full susser and Im not kidding! Get your head over that front end and just let it go! 2.6 tubeless Minions is all I added as the stock tyres are garbage. If you want one bike to do everything really well, this should be on your list, especially the Ti version.
Awesome Arthur, thanks for sharing!!
Dartmoor Hornet and Primal are the go-to frames here in the philippines
I’d love to try one! They’re sadly hard to come by here in the US.
Love my Hornet custom build 👍
Show Kona some more love guys. The ESD is amazing.
It’s a great bike, and have a lot of videos featuring it on my channel! But not quite crazy enough for this video haha
I ran a dave for about a year , head angle I thought was surprisingly great but on the negative the bikes was to long in the rear the seat tube angle to steep and it was so heavy . I switched it out for a ragley big al frame which has more conservative geo numbers but a much nicer quality frame.
Thanks for your feedback! Ya I think the long chainstays would be my biggest drawback too
ive got a custom dartmmor hornet hardtail with a 180mm zeb ultimate, ~63 degree head angle , and its the sickest thing ever. I would comment pics if i could
Sounds dope!!
Hornet are an awesome frame. I have 160mm travel & love it
whats your take on the marin el roy especially considering its on sale now for 1700?
Never ridden it, but the geo and spec looks pretty spot on and at that price it’s a steel! Heard it’s a bit heavy, but in my opinion steel hardtails aren’t for those looking for an ultra light XC bike!
I love my rocky mountain growler 40
Super rad bike!
I've got the Hello Dave & the Kona Honzo ESD I was riding all of 2022, in comparison Honzo ESD is size large and the reach was feeling a bit too short for me but it was much more playful with 27.5 & easier to climb with 29ers. On Dave he's much more stable and loves the steep DH but much harder to Bunny hop harder to turn on the tight corners on the single track Trails here in the island. Oh & BTW, I went for size XL with Dave so with the long chain stays plus longer wheel base he's a hell of a lot effort to pop over stuff...😢😅
Thanks for the input, sounds about like how I’d imagine the Dave to ride haha; pros and cons to everything! If you had to pick one for everything which would it be?
Hmmmm... that's a good question but if I had it to my personal preference I'd have something in between them both, I'm checking out the Marino Bikes with the option to a custom made frame with my choices of the geo and the price ain't that bad neither...
Nice! I’ve seriously considered that too, from what I’ve heard the frames seem pretty high quality
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy yeah, you also have the options of frame tube materials, even titanium too but obviously at a cost
Thought my Nordest Bardino with 64.5 head tube, 75 seattube was pretty Aggro...
Haha right?!
question, working good if put a 160mm suspension on my 2023 Trek RASCOE ?, on TREK site recommended max. 150mm
I would avoid going above what the manufacturer recommends. I think that bike will rip with a 150mm fork!
thanks Man@@ridingwithjoshandwendy
Question what’s the better hardtail Nukeproof Scout or Kona Honzo
Both are rad!! I personally prefer the geometry of the Scout a bit more. It sits right between the Hozo and the Honzo ESD
Hey man hope you can answer my question can you ran 170mm fork on a 65° ht angle?
Depends on the bike, most manufacturers don’t recommend a fork with anything more than 10-20mm than what it came with as it adds a lot of stress on the headtube
Can you also check the 2021 dartmoor hornet? Thanks.
I included it in this video here: czcams.com/video/xU0qdE4M7II/video.html I’d love to do an in person review but they’re pretty hard to find here in the US
Have you ever heard of Marino Bikes in Peru? I had them build me a Long Low and Slack Hardcore Hardtail 435 Chainstays 420 Seattube 64 degree headtube angle, and 600mm reach. Runs 29.2.6 and has a wheelbase of 1372mm.
That thing sounds sick!! I actually almost included them as the “number 1” bike on the list, seeing as you could, theoretically, make it as aggressive as you dare haha! How’s your experience been with the frame? I’ve seriously considered ordering one, probably try to make it the most DJ like trail bike (27.5” wheels, super short seat tube chainstays, high BB, 65 HTA w/ 150 mm fork)
Omg i was about to comment about this
Haha do have a frame of their’s too?
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy no but im considering one
Me too haha
I can't see going to the other extreme especially at those price points. I went with the Big Honzo DL over the ESD. Where did you get that price on the ESD it goes for $3100 on Kona's website.
Nice! The DL is a great well rounded bike! And $699 is the cost for the ESD frame
So wild. I just built a custom geo hardcore, and I really don't know what going this extreme brings to the table. A consecutive big hit rock garden is just not overcome by having different geo numbers. I can descend the rowdiest terrain with a 64.5 HTA and much less extreme reach numbers... it's not the steepness that is the issue in my experience, just the consecutive big hits that are a hardtails weakness (and always will be?)... Interested to see ride reviews of all of them.
I think I’d have to agree with you; I sorta feel like if you want a hardtail with geo like these you should probably just ride a full squish rig; but then again I know a lot of people, myself included, ride hardtails for the challenge and identify associated with them, not because it’s the best tool for the job
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy Right, hardtails just appeal to a particular rider and with this extreme geo it must suck the soul right out of the things we love the most about HT's...
Sad be true 😂 I know some people who swear by them though!
It has to do with steering and more weight on the front for steep climbs. But at some point it's overkill, but after riding 62.5 de head angle I feel like 65 deg is a tad twitchy. Even with same fork offset, bu tnot tried on a bike tha t fits me so rider weight might mess things up. It was manageable and easy once I was going but going slow I really felt it. But bike was 1 or 2 maybe 3 sizes too small. Bu ti could feel it standing still steering was very different. My bike has 44mm offset. So did that bike. But I am not saying it's horrible. I only tested it on flat and a pumptrack. But such lovely steering I want it on everything, or as slack as it is safe. I want a fatbike with such geo.
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy I love my Geometron G1 so much I would want that 62.5 deg head angle on a fat bike. And even a xc bike if I would get one. Even just for grocery store commute/city style riding. Cus the stability of a long and balanced bike and steering with slack head angle lovely. Even for touring bike si makes sense, long rides that tires you out even on flat easy riding rising for many kms on a twitchy bike is a no go for me. Old school bikes wanted you to crash. Also bike that fits is important, so setup is crusial. 62.5 might be overkill for some bikes, like dir jump bikes. But I've not experimented with this. But ti am not a fan of long stem, and steep head angle, but 66, 65, 64 is manageable. Much better than 70 deg. Tha twas managble but too twitchy and sensitive for my liking. Still could go crazy on it and not crash easily. But slacker than 70 is a must. Would not go steeper than 66 I guess. But that's the slackest fatbike I could find.
I am old school, for me aggro geo means super steep angles for very bad down hill capabilities. Slack geo angles means comfy and super good down hill capabilities making even a baby a pro mtbiker, at least going down :p
Depends on what and how you ride. I do have a full suspension bike Geometron G1 and got plenty use of the travel, and still a hard work out, and I still have to move, us emy body, but I rid both up and down and ride tech, an dmy back is horrible, all of these things geometry, fit, suspension all make it easier Ron my back, no more oldcshoolm xc hardtail shredding for me, my back can't handle it. I want tto work on building muscle mass to improve my back. But am a mess. But I love the geo on my Geometron G1 so much I want all my new bikes to have this geo, but Geometron fat bike does not exist yet.
Damn these make my MmmBop with a 160lyrik seem conservative lol
Hahaha seriously!
Would be interesting if somone made a video about fat bikes. Not found any super aggressive fat bikes, one existed it was Pole Taiga, I regret not buying one as its discontinued. Ppl who have it love it. It was a hardcore hardtail fatbike, super slack head angle, but now slackest ti found was 66 deg on rocky mountain Blizzard there is carbon and alu version, and budget to high end option. Blizzard comes at 500mm reach on XL, so should fit me. I live in Norway, some part sof the winter has really difficult snow impossible on regular tyres, need huge tyres to not get stuck, of course sometimes even on a fs bike it's impossible. Most trails are much smoother on snow so a hardtail will be fine even with my back I guess if tyre pressure is low. But full suspension fa bikes exist but none with good geo and most are discontinued or too bad geo. Maybe I should order a Nicolai tailor made fat bike. Basically a Geometron fat which does not exist yet. Bu ti see Geometron offers the hardtails now, maybe a fat bike some day? I hope so. Their full suspension fat bike prototype never became a product. A full suspension might be too much to ask for now, as that would require some more development. But they already have a fatbike frame, but outdated geo and fit, reccomend size is way too small.
I have a Paradox V3 and it it the best bike i have ever had. I cannot even explain how good the bike is uphill and downhill, i do not even know how Banshee achieved that.
That’s awesome! I’d love to try one some day!
Steve from HTP swear by that bike, what makes it a good bike in your experience?
@@SaludfitnessPUNTOcom I have the size L frame with a 150mm Pike Select fork. The geometry of the bike is just simply spot on. The uphill sections are very easy to climb and on the descents i feel the bike is glued to the ground and eats anything you throw at it. Hard to explain without being able to ride it. Also the rear triangle works extremely well on absorbing rough terrain. It is still a hardtail but it feels very plush in the rear. Maybe the tires that i put on play a significant role (Honcho Teravail 2.60 both front and rear).
The cockpit was a little harsh and stiff when i first got the bike but i swapped the aluminum Raceface bars with the OneUp carbon fiber bars at 800mm and some Ergon Evo GE1 grips and now it feels very soft. I live in the PNW and honestly the bike so far has been more than capable on every different trail and terrain i took it.
I hope this helps.
What does your bike weigh in at? I’m building one right now
26 pounds size L.@@nategadow4482
Where do you get those prices from? The Honzo is $3000
Off their website haha, the Honzo ESD is $3,099
Damn I thought my San Quentin was slack
Great bike for the buck.
Marino cabala is similar. As a frame only is around 400$
I would avoid Marino after reading wha people experienced. A heavy tall dude broke one. I think he is above 2 meters tall, he is size of two men. So a great test of durability of bikes, he is wide, big in every way. No disrespect. He rides gnarly stuff cooks brakes. Even snapped a Commencal Clash rear end bu they sent a replacement fast. But I think k it took 4 mo ths or something to get replacement from Marino.
@@mtbboy1993 I am 6' and 280 lbs . No durability issues. The bike is solid.
I feel like anything over 150mm up front is just going to get you in trouble on a hardtail. If you hit something big enough to require a 180mm fork, it's going to wreck your rear end. It's cool that people are pushing the designs forward, but these are a little ridiculous. I kind of want my hardtail to pedal uphill as well as crush the downhill
Ya, they’re definitely niche bikes that take a real unique set of skills to ride well. I personally find 140-150mm with a 64-65 degree HTA to be the sweet spot for aggressive all-mountain hardtails
I'm with you on that. I ride a 2023 Roscoe, and it feels pretty perfect. I can climb all day on it and still bomb some pretty serious downhills. That being said, I also have a FS, so my hardtail doesn't need to be quite as hard-core. I ride with two guys who exclusively ride Honzos, and I would have probably gone that way of it was my only bike
I ride a Canyon Stoic with a 160mm Lyrik, and it works perfectly fine (for me), i ride “everything” with it✌🏽
@@deefsworld That would be an interesting ride.
PLEASE SOMEONE RECOMEND ME THE BEST HARTDAIL FOR TRAILS THAT HAVE JUMPS THAT ARE UNDER 2K
Check this video out: czcams.com/video/QGW1qSaBqjU/video.htmlsi=JdbOK5D20j4P4xpJ
Where can I buy a Haro Double Peak Trail 27.5 - Matt Black?
Check Haro’s website, I’m sure they have a list of dealers 🤙
@@ridingwithjoshandwendy They won't let me order from Melbourne, the state of Victoria, to NSW Australia. Because they told me all the dealers in Australia won't ship to any home address. Because the bike has to be assembled by a professional bike dealer. And the local bike dealers here won't help me.
Ah bummer man! Check out the Polygon Siskiu! It’s a similar bike to the Double Peak. If you buy it from this link it’ll help our channel out 🤙 bikesonline-usa.sjv.io/rQ4qZB
What did you do to that poor fork in the start picture
lol what do you mean?
Giving feedback on a video here in YT oftentimes comes across as spilling hate, but quality would improve a great deal if you got a proper microphone. All the best.
Agreed, just too poor to make it happen right now haha
It went together easily in less than an hour. czcams.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L Make sure the front fork is forward or the pedals will hit the front tire. Tires are both a little soft so it needs air before I ride it. The rear wheel didn't come with a clamp regular bolts hold it on. The front had the clamp. No scratches out of box. Rims are a little off with a slight wobble. They could have spent more time with the spoke tool fixing the run out. So far out of the box I'm happy with it. I did replace the pedals with a nice aftermarket set. After riding it a bit my A$$ is a bit sore so I ordered another seat. Overall I'm nearly 60 and didn't ride a bike in 30 years. I like my new 29" Schwinn. It will be used for casual rides with my friend.
Haha probably not!
Where are the DH fork hardtails?
I don't think anyone's making one these days! But I'm sure there's still a couple dudes running that setup on their trails, pretty gnarly setup!
Bro anything in giant for hardcore?
Sadly not, the Fathom is a great XC/trail bike, but wouldn’t thrive in gnarlier terrain
I don't get the point. Imo you take a hardtail to party. It's rigid in the back and you put some forks in the front wich travel a bit so you don't lose any teeth on the trail. If you keep your fork travel low, you can stay around 65° for even more party ;)
That’s my take too, but at least there’s something for everyone!
well,......still content whit my Nordest Bardino steel version.
Sick bike, glad you’re stoked on it!!
Good content and editing but I recommend purchasing a good microphone. The audio doesn’t do the rest of your video justice.
Thank you man! Ya, running on a tight (read zero lol) budget and filming on iPhone, maybe throw some money into it some day but for now I'd rather buy bikes
I just bought a Ragley BluePig Race 63.5 head angle Rockshox Lyric Select R 160mm,Nukeproof Horizon Wheels,XT Derailier n Shifter,SLX 4 pot brakes and Drivetrain,170mm Dropper,Maxxis ......£1500....ChainReactionCycles ...Bargain!! Ha!
Nice!! I almost got the Mmmbop (the aluminum version of the Blue Pig) last year. Ragleys are such great value!!
60, stoopidness first into the office, FFS - where will it end
Kinda makes sense to make it super slack on a hardtail. Your HTA changes an insane amount as the fork goes through it's travel, far more than it does on a fullsus. Especially if we're talking big travel forks
El-Roy anyone?
Sick bike! But the 63 degree HTA paired with a 140mm fork wasn’t quite spicy enough to make it on this list
Just my opinion, never heard of these bikes, and not impressed. Way better bikes than these. All good. Happy trails. Aloha.😎🤙
Hmm, which aggressive hardtails would you recommend?
Its ok to be wrong sometimes ha. These brands and bikes kick ass man, you gotta look into them.
@@spenceranderson4864 You're right! These bikes are crazy good! But living in Hawaii has always been a challenge to get stuff shipped here without spending an arm and a leg. Anyway, much Mahalo my friend for that info. Take care. Aloha.😎🤙
dude, why do you wear the hat?
Because I like it lol 🤷♂️
Absolute bull shit,you will never can use the capability of the fork!!It changes dramatically the geometry especially downhill...The max rideable fork travel is in my opinion 140mm
That’s why those bikes have such slack HTAs, they’re really more like 64/65 deep in travel when you need the slack HTA the most
Hello Good Day!
I am a hardtail user ever since. I love watching your content every time.
Can you make a review on DARTMOOR HORNET hardtail frame? I think this frame is underrated in some countries but here in the Philippines, it is the go-to hardtail frame for enduro and trail riding. It is also the most popular enduro hardtail frame.
I hope this will get to you and make a good content about this. Thank you in advance.