XC Full Suspension Vs Aggressive Hardtail | Which Is Faster, Aggressive Geometry Or More Suspension?
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- čas přidán 13. 06. 2024
- There are lots of things to consider when choosing a bike, the main one being geometry. Most MTBs will have discipline-specific geometry, a mountain bike that is long and slack won't be used in cross country and a bike which is steep and nimble won't be used in downhill. Blake Samson sets out to see if geometry is everything by racing his Hardcore Hardtail, an MTB with only front suspension but geometry that is similar to an Enduro bike against his XC race machine on a short downhill track.
⏱ Timestamps ⏱
0:00 - Intro
1:03 - The Bikes | Orbea Laufey
2:48 - The Bikes | Orbea Oiz
3:51 - Race Run | Orbea Laufey
5:28 - Race Run | Orbea Oiz
7:13 - The Results
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Hey Blake just wanted to thank you for all the effort and enthusiasm you put into these video! It always makes me excited to go riding and I totally share your love for hardtails! And of course thanks to everyone else behind the scenes on the GMBN team making these videos so entertaining and high-quality. Always fun to watch what videos you're putting out next!
1) This year’s xc with fox 34 is an aggro trail bike from 5 years ago. 2) it’s the rider not the bike
I love aggressive hardtails!
Me too.
@@colincoulthard3021Me three! I have a Stif Squatch.
True bro 👍
Soo good!
yes.. im in on hardtails too... sold my double sus 2 years ago. no way back
I ride a slack hardtail with 2.6 Minions, so I wasn't a bit surprised by the results. But I'm still marveling at your ability to ride that sloppy trail, in the rain, with no fenders or eye protection. That was some kind of black magic.
You should swap tires and go again 😛
Swapping tires on each bike would be fun. Laufey on an XC wheelset vs Oiz with the enduro wheels.
Wonder how the comparison would have been ridding the same tire. Great video! Love what you guys do here, been watching for many years.
If you want to test the difference of the bike you should minimze factors that create difference so I absolutely agree. On the other side however these are the tyres you would probably ride on those bikes. Although I think the middle way for both would have been better. Some proper grippy trail tyres that still roll fast on the straight parts.
It could be interesting to see if the results change in anyway! We'd have to get Blake out in the wet again though 🤘
Hardtails are fun!
Definitely agree. Regardless of hardtail or full-sus I think I'd always want 2 sets of wheels now. One with aggressive trail/mud tyres and one with fast XC tyres. Then swap them out based on the weather and the type of riding.
I'd love to see a bike/£ comparison. You get a lot of bike for your money with a hardtail but is it enough to beat a full-sus? (Hardtail is my only MTB right now).
@@ifitrollsrideit530 only times I take out the fully is when I go to mountains with chunky tech. Also did that on the hardtail and itmight even be more fun but I do find myself to be a little bit slower as I have to push harder to keep up with friends. Does not feel like that though and you can still get good speeds if you know the trail and technique is good.
Great video 👍
So good. Thanks!
Just picked up an aggressive'ish hardtail in the nukeproof scout. My other bikes are a full suss 27.5+ with less aggressive geo, and a full suss enduro. Im really looking forward to seeing how it compares!
I like the idea of this video, but the only thing it showed was that the hardtail was slighty better at going downhill in muddy conditions.
I have a Orbea oiz and love it , just got a Merida big trail hardtail for winter and I am so impressed and feel really confident on it , this vid was like comparing my 2 bikes ❤ Thank you GMBN
I love this channel 🇿🇼
Nice comparison.. how about hardtail vs full sus xc on long climbs/ uphill?. as I've only got a hardtail, i'm always wandering how capable a full sus xc bike is, which is more efficient on long climbs and which bike is more fun going down,
I started with a hardtail that seemed like a mix of XC and trail with its geometry and 130 travel and rode it for years. I made the switch to a full sus trail almost mini Enduro 150/140 and I couldn't be happier. I actually find the full sus easier for uphill. Modern anti squat technology and geometry really help. Plus if I need to I can lock it out but haven't needed to yet. Downhill is where it really shines and will leave you grinning ear to ear. My opinion, move from XC to trail and you won't regret it.
It would be interesting to see 🤔 The Oiz does have a full lockout which makes it a climbing machine!
@@JeffMTBinVA man a 150/140 with a lockout in the back that's a sweet setup you've got. Should be a blast going down. My hardtail build right now is trailish setup with 140mm travel. And on my local trail it's kinda enough. Although there's some section on the trail that sometimes I wish I have a rear shock haha
@@gmbn as some of us need to pedal long climbs to go on our local trails. It would be interesting to see if a short travel full squish is really faster on climbs than an agressive hardtail.
I guessed right! The suspension on the back probably kept the tire in contact with the ground, thereby outweighing the reduction in grip of an XC tire... however confidence on the front is of greater importance, giving the hardtail the win. I bet with a more aggressive front tire on the XC bike the results would reverse.
Did i miss the jump on the cover still in the video? Great content, no rain would stop the show 😂
Unfortunately it's not in the video, sorry! Just some gnarly riding instead 🤘
Would Blake choose the laufey over the scout? That's a competition😵
Hardtails are so much fun, and I definitely wouldn't have made the choice to go with mine over a full sus if it hadn't been for Blake's vids
I would actually prefer the 67 degree head angle over the 63.5. If you want to talk about skills, riding a 66 or 67 degree head angle is all you need for slackness. I think it's actually the sweet spot in geometry and all you have to do is sharpen your skills a little rather than having a super slack bike that sucks for anything that isn't pointing down.
Depends what you ride. And you also need to go slacker with a HT since it loses slackness as the suspension compresses.
@@WilliamLevesqueineX I have ridden a lot of pretty aggressive trail with my Eskar Hayduke which has. 140mm fork and 66 degree head angle. It doesn't need to be any slacker.
@@ShadLife Looking at where you ride, I dont think you have quite the same kind of riding we do here in Canada (both western and eastern). Trust me, slacker isnt a bad thing for a lot of the stuff here haha.
My HT has 66deg and a 130mm fork, needs a bit more frankly. Also have a DH bike for lift access stuff :)
@@WilliamLevesqueineX I ride all over the place. Colorado, North Shore, Bentonville, and so on. I also ride BMX bikes with no suspension, 20" wheels and a 75 degree head angle. So yeah, a 27.5 or 29 inch wheel with a 66 degree head angle is plenty slack for shredding most technical DH with a slight exception of probably the gnarliest down hill trails. But those are far and few between. I rode Trestle bike park going 35 or so MPH and had plenty of stability. Super slack is needed for a very limited amount of trails and like I said, with the right amount of skill any rider could shred anything with ease on less slack bikes. The super slack bikes I have ridden only felt good once I was going down hill at a higher speed up 25 MPH plus, otherwise they felt cumbersome to ride.
I love Blake´s videos with hardtail bikes!
Hello, would be Laufey 2024 suitable for long distance (commuting)? I understand that gravel would be faster but how about seat postion comfort and speed?
exactly the two bikes I have in mind to replace my trusty Alma.
But I'm leaning towards the OIZ, even if the Laufey looks like a lot of fun, but I've covered a lot of kilometers on the Alma and there's still an Occam in the house 🤓.
Nice video. I am intreted by the wheels on the Laufey are those custom build SPANK cause they are not the wheels that comes with the bike and I can not find them on Spank website ether?
Harking back to the mixed tire videos, have you considered doing a mullet gravel bike?
Blake is such a rider
What about the fall, did you do a re run?
Good job mate. Next one do in the dry. 👍
Great video Blake 🤘
Both those bikes 🤤🔥
I was about to order an Oiz to replace my yeti arc. Decided on a Lapierre Spicy.
You seem to like the Orbea at GMBN, and especially the Laufey. I have a question. With efficient tires, does it climb well? Is it possible to do epic ride with it. And the next week end change the tires and go to the bikepark? Is it at this level of polyvalence?
Thank you so much :D
I wonder what Blake would pick, Orbea Laufey H10 or Nukeproof Scout 290 Comp, he seems to love both of them.
The Laufey’s got a few more features than the Scout.
Blake loves scout more
@@thelittleewokboss9929 Yea, was thinking the same
Why though? They're extremely similar
No one gonna talk about how high Blake jumped in the thumbnail?
It's very majestic!
We need a comparison of the nukeproof scout vs orbea laufey, similar price point & geometry
Love the vids ❤❤❤
Aggressive Hardtails are much better on the downhill (more front travel, Enduro tires, aggressive long slack geometry...) And the cross country full sus might be faster on the uphill (less travel, lighter, not so slack...)
Been waiting for this video for ages!!
Did it live up to your expectations?
Yea! Was great! Keen to see the matchup again at Dyfi though 😅@@gmbn
Aggressive hardtails are imo mostly suited to tight, low speed janky trails, rather than smashing into things at speed.
I'm seeing the Z2 on a lot of aggressive HT's these days, my rig included.
Good fork?
@@kamasu4222 I like mine. Hardly ever adjust it. Maybe that's what makes it so popular. Also, it's affordable if not a little on the heavier side compared to other mid-tier forks.
My 56 year old knees love my full suspension bike…end of story.
my 53 year old knees are yet t xperience the wonders of the FS! love my orbea hardtail especially the goldy paint job!!
Love B-Lake!
I have a question !
Dose Down hill requiere strong wrist and a good gripe😮
I have only been riding xc and gravel😮.
Love hardtails I will always choose my hardtail over my full suspension when possible.. this video whats price difference between the 2? Have to think that hardtail is significantly less expensive.
The Laufey is round about £600 in the UK, the Oiz is roughly £2,000.
So you could buy the Laufey, stick a good dropper on it, upgrade/add a few things and still have spent half the money.
If someone offered me either bike right now on the proviso I could never sell it, I'd take the Laufey anyway. I'll always be team hardtail.
Ha.... a test with a Laufey.... I love mine 😎....Upgraded the brakes...now its nearly perfect
is it gold tho.. way more zingy than the dark purple..!
@@fugoogle9757 jep.... gold 😅
Ooooh ooooh, another hardtail video. I fricken love these!! 🤣🤣
I am curious to see how well this Orbea pedals. The standard tires are 2.6, which is not very agile.
i have no problamas pedlin uphill on my orbea
My Laufey frame is now sat to the side after moving all the components to a Nukeproof Reactor frame. The Reactor frame is much more forgiving but the Laufey frame was amazing to ride
Funny, I own a Laufey and a Reactor too 😁
PFP has won the last two XCO Worlds on a Hardtail.......
Hey Blake love the videos, I recently started getting back into cycling after 10 years off the saddle.
What are peoples thoughts on the 2015 norco storm 7.1, Id love to know what upgrades you would make, everything on the bike seems to be original parts so I'm replacing a lot and upgrading where I can and afford.
So far I've done:
- brake pads and rotors, swapped them over to galfer rotors and galfer advanced.
- new Pedals jet black alloy
- more robust inner tubes
Will eventually replace wheels and tires so I can go tubeless and replace the front forks to something with more travel. Riding conditions are country Victoria Australia very dusty and rocky as well as steep and hilly, xc/enduro style.
Hardcore hardtails sound good on paper but I have test riden many of them through my riding buddies and swaping from full sus to hardtaill feels like going from mercedes G63 amg to a lada niva, capable maybe, but they feel like they will shatter your spine and bones from harshness, very unrefined and unsettling
would be nice to have a 3rd bike in the comparism - enduro or all mountain full sus - for this kind of terrain in order to set the benchmark.... I love your hardtail content, more videos like this one please.
Way more time is spent climbing so I would have preferred seeing that comparison. Something like a Trek Supercaliber is the sweet spot of XC bikes.
This comparison is obsolete, a hardtail is always faster than a fully when climbing.
Sir. try Kens tyrann x2 or Kens tyrann x3 Hardtail frame made in philippines you try to enduro ans jumps..
I prefer hardtails. Previous two bikes have been full sus, now I'm back to a hardtail again. It must just be something about me but I just have way more fun on a hardtail, I feel better and more confident riding them too. With my last two full sus bikes I spent more time riding them with the rear suspension locked anyway so the added weight was pretty much pointless.
I guess it's like cars, some like fwd, some like 4wd, some like rwd. They all have their own advantages and disadvantages. I drive a rwd, I like to get the back end out now and again - legally of course 😉
The last time I rode a full suspensíon was over twenty years ago but what I remember was that I could ride the bike longer than a hard tail so in the long run going down ski hills the full suspension even though it was kinda crappy (Pro Flex with elastomer) I was less beat up after a four hour ride down using a chairlift to go up.
I have only owned one full suspension bike in my life but from my little experience I would say if you can afford it I would go with a limited travel full suspension bike for everyday trail riding.
Personally I only own hardtails, but I was invited by a mate on a trail to ride a FS E bike recently. Compared to my hardtail it was like a flying carpet, it had much more travel than my XC hardtail and you could go much faster over obstackes. The bike had a smooth Fox 38 fork which alone costs more than my whole XC bike.
It was a completely different way of riding the bike, though my harddtail is likely more efficient on longer climbs compared with a non electric FS bike with that much travel
I love telemarketing😂😂😂😂😂
What was the point in that. Of course the bike with the better tyres is faster 😒
Thumbnail like Sho Kosugi!
XC is a discipline that involves going UP hills/mountains as well as along and down them so comparing the two examples descending ability is IMO not a thorough examination of which will be quicker overall within the sport. Having said that, Blake said near the end of this presentation that it's really down to rider ability and to a lesser degree what type of terrain you intend to ride on which I wholeheartedly agree with.... on the day it looked like tyre choice was more a crucial factor lol
The comparison wasn’t an xc race it was just a downhill section, give Blake a break. After all he is a beautiful person.🤣
Perfect timing! I was literally looking at a FS XC bike yesterday and comparing it to a hardtail. Result? I have a new Norco Torrent S2.
A continuation of this video would be interesting. Add in smooth and techy climbs, maybe some jumps, and see what happens.
Good choice! Happy we could be of service, how does the bike feel?
Let me know how the s2 is I am thinking of getting the same as is $1875AU here 45% off…
I had the stif squatch.My experience is.Numbers are just numbers. Steep seattube angles more than 75 on hardtails are nonsense. On flatter trails this hardtails ride akward,Your shoulders and upper body are more stressed.Not to forget that the angles steepen in sag on a hardtail!!
I went back to the scout v3,just perfekt,as my body is well put in the bike.
On full suspension steeper seattubes make sense as the bike flattens its angles on sag.
This literally is the best topic.
The Orbea xc fully looks like a 2018 Specialized Epic
Ouch, my “all mountain” bike has a 67 degree head angle.
How good would these videos be with a side-by-side POV camera? Hint hint
tyres are different though.. and the barzos don't grip the best from experience
👌
Nicolai GLF for the win!
You should register with that mustache.
Forgot to wear tight lycra with the xc bike
Need control tires, yeah.
Is Blake trying to create a drinking game by saying hatdtail as often as possible? 😂
For me the question is on the seat angle. I have both types of bike and I often feel the super steep seat angle of hardcore hardtails is heavy on the knees if you are pedalling in the saddle for a longer time.
I agree, I think some trail hardtails are going too far with extra long reach and steep seat tube angles now making them compromised for anything that isn't really steep up/down. Its like some designers just copied fashionable enduro geometry numbers without considering that a hardtail gets longer and steeper as it sags, while a full-sus does the opposite. My 140mm hardtail has a 75.5 deg seat tube and I wouldn't want it any steeper.
hmmm not the same tires.... that's a bummer... how could you compare that...there is more difference in the traction and all ...senseless...just an orbea add... love both bikes. orbea is one of the nicest brands
It would drive me crazy to live somewhere, where it’s wet all the time!
u get t really appreciate dry trails when it does seem t rain a heckofa lot!
Comparing two bikes.... with different tires. WAT
Best thumbnail 2023🎉🎉
ride rigid. thinking about 66 below rigid fork.
Just bizarre to do a comparison of XC bikes and not have any climbing in there. What?
Where was you riding blake
forest of dean wd be my guess..
And next we will test an f1 car on ice vs an old Skoda on the road. Oooo there's only 1 second in it,. Is the Skoda faster? Yes it is. FFS at least test on the same tyres in the same weather.
sarcasm. the lowest form of wit...
@fugoogle9757 no...that's just a dumb saying that sheep believe in.
Tires matter.....My Honda Element with good snow tires will beat any Ford Raptor with mud tires in a snowstorm. How do I know? Lol.....I have experienced that raptor in the ditch many times and asked if he needed a ride. Tires tires tires!
I find on my home trail, lots of old school single track, roots and short punchy climbs the Supercaliber was hands down faster than my Procaliber SL! On the Procal, I need to pick my lines and the SC I don’t. The Procal climbs incredibly easy but so does the SC. I feel the Procal is only faster on straight/flat spots. The Supercal is an all around beast! Funny thing is, I had a 19 Top Fuel and I felt that was faster, but Strava says the Supercal is faster!
You lost me with no motor and no suspension! 😅😅😅😅😅
Apparently there is no difference between a ‘trail ‘ and an old drainage ditch in that part of the world. 😂😂
Oooo yeahhhh!!because hardcore hardtail 🤘🔥🤘
I dont ride in mud so its kinda pointless to me😅
ur a lucky bleeder so! if ur N european then mud is what there is for much of the year.. alas.
Is biker's tea like builder's tea ?
bikers tea has a splash of the old uisce baugh in it!
Should of had a carbon hardtail
Not many hardcore hardtails with a carbon frame unfortunately. Lot's of XC to pick from but not much in the
@@ifitrollsrideit530 True but they were comparing two different type of bikes. A carbon everything hardtail is super fast
Hardtails all day!!!
Ahh yes, nothing tests an XC race bike quite like a sub-one minute downhill course.
Like comparing a Harley to a mx bike.
I think most people would be competely satisfied with a trail hardtail. Fullsus is way too complicated and maintanence is pain in the ass.
26 inch with more/better suspension will beat 29 inch.
OMG, why do I watch this infomercial shite. I'm not getting that time back.
I am disappointed about this video.
The ideas are running out?😅
The post pointless video ever