294 ‒ Peak athletic performance: How to measure it and how to train for it
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- čas přidán 15. 05. 2024
- View show notes here: bit.ly/3Pq29od
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Olav Aleksander Bu is an internationally renowned sports scientist acclaimed for his coaching prowess with elite athletes spanning a diverse range of sports disciplines. In this episode, Olav delves deep into the intricacies of VO2 max and its profound impact on performance. They explore the relationship between VO2 max and ATP production, energy efficiency, and power, as well as the impact of low-intensity training on VO2 max. The conversation extends to Olav’s experiences pushing the boundaries with high-performance athletes and the data driven interventions he uses to improve performance. They also dissect the role of lactate threshold, discuss other important metrics to track, and explore the exciting possibility of utilizing a portable VO2 testing device as a practical alternative to traditional lab-based assessments.
We discuss:
0:00:00 - Intro
0:01:29 - Olav’s background, expertise in exercise physiology, coaching experience, and interest in the extremes of human capability
0:08:03 - The processes of energy conversion within the human body and its implications for performance
0:19:50 - Improving movement efficiency, and the importance of mindfulness in training to optimize performance
0:36:34 - The relationship between VO2 max, power output, and endurance performance in different sporting contexts
0:47:36 - How VO2 max is measured in the lab, and why it’s a crucial predictor of both lifespan and quality of life
0:58:15 - Absolute vs relative VO2 max, the significance of functional threshold power in cycling, and the importance of longer duration tests for accurate assessments
1:10:35 - Portable VO2 testing devices as a practical alternative to lab-based tests
1:22:19 - The complexities of measuring ventilation and its impact on performance metrics like VO2 max and heart rate
1:30:54 - Training interventions to increase VO2 max, and factors that impact performance outcomes
1:41:15 - The respiratory exchange ratio (RER) and endurance sports, and how factors such as diet composition and exercise intensity influence RER values and performance
1:50:30 - Science-guided training for versatile athletes: maximizing VO2 max, power, torque, and cadence in cycling, and the importance of incorporating diverse stimuli to enhance performance
2:14:28 - Physiological limitations on VO2 max
2:19:07 - The different energy systems used during work, and other things to monitor like VCO2 and heart rate
2:24:03 - Lactate threshold and other metrics to guide your training
2:38:48 - Analysis of a lactate power curve: exploring lactate dynamics in endurance training and performance
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 70 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
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In this episode, we discuss:
0:01:29 - Olav’s background, expertise in exercise physiology, coaching experience, and interest in the extremes of human capability
0:08:03 - The processes of energy conversion within the human body and its implications for performance
0:19:50 - Improving movement efficiency, and the importance of mindfulness in training to optimize performance
0:36:34 - The relationship between VO2 max, power output, and endurance performance in different sporting contexts
0:47:36 - How VO2 max is measured in the lab, and why it’s a crucial predictor of both lifespan and quality of life
0:58:15 - Absolute vs relative VO2 max, the significance of functional threshold power in cycling, and the importance of longer duration tests for accurate assessments
1:10:35 - Portable VO2 testing devices as a practical alternative to lab-based tests
1:22:19 - The complexities of measuring ventilation and its impact on performance metrics like VO2 max and heart rate
1:30:54 - Training interventions to increase VO2 max, and factors that impact performance outcomes
1:41:15 - The respiratory exchange ratio (RER) and endurance sports, and how factors such as diet composition and exercise intensity influence RER values and performance
1:50:30 - Science-guided training for versatile athletes: maximizing VO2 max, power, torque, and cadence in cycling, and the importance of incorporating diverse stimuli to enhance performance
2:14:28 - Physiological limitations on VO2 max
2:19:07 - The different energy systems used during work, and other things to monitor like VCO2 and heart rate
2:24:03 - Lactate threshold and other metrics to guide your training
2:38:48 - Analysis of a lactate power curve: exploring lactate dynamics in endurance training and performance
thank you
thank you for this interview we really appreciate it.
Wonderful interview. Thank you.
thanks for trying to make this conversation the most accessible for the crowd, peter
Two best in their respective fields! As a 59 year old still competing in running and triathlon this was glorious! I always wanted to hear a in depth interview with Olav and no better than the good doctor Attia to bring out the best from Olav! OMG and more to come!!!!
One of the best interviews - yet.
This is one of the best podcast episodes you’ve done. Pair this with member notes: pure gold
This is the ultimate podcast. Thanks Peter and thanks Olav.
Brilliant to see you both going in to so much detail, however, there were several times where Olav was about to say something really useful for the listener when in your excitement you interrupted him. Please let the guest get to the key point they are trying to make rather than show us you know almost as much if not more than them. Thanks 🙏
This. Had this thought many times throughout the podcast. Sometimes, Olav managed to hold on to the thought and steer the conversation back on topic, other times not. 😩 Still a very good episode, though!
@@Interceptor I think you make a great point that Olav sometimes came back to the topic, this somewhat salvaged the interruptive nature of Peter. Agreed, still a fantastic episode and looking forward to the next one 👍
Peter spends much of the interview pointing to specifics in relation to his own personal expediences (mainly biking and a little swimming) which unfortunately is a small subset of people who exercise, it would be nice if he steered towards those who run and other more common exercise disciplines. Also they speak with far too many technical terms and acronyms. So much knowledge to share !
The best pod I have seen with Alex Bu
What a great surprise that you found him and had him on as a guest! Thank you
Thank you for making a podcast for elite athletes. ❤🙏🏼
What a privilege to be a fly on the wall as these two nerd out. Awesome!
Oxygen to the cells. That transport mechanics with the heart pump is the very mechanism that excercise/effort builds heart function/strength/size. I'm no Dr. But I seebthe relationship. When one taxes the cv system through effort, the body adapts. Fascinating. As an engineer and a hydraulics expert, I see the flow for what it is. Add the mitochondrial and metabolic function and wow, what a sophisticated mechanism we are! Fantastic conversation!!.
thank you both for your generosity... we want more of this… greetings from Mexico 🇲🇽✌🏽
Fantastic podcast. It is just amazing to listen to the knowledge but also very humble about what we don’t know which makes the pursuit for better ourselves incredibly fascinating.
This had the best ever content with a super guest who had the most outmost knowledge about the subject matter. Also I bet only ever knowledgeable Peter could have done this interview. I can’t wait for the follow up interviews. Thank you Peter.
Fascinating! Thanks for this Peter!
Incredible interview As Always!
Just why seeing Olav's name on my notifications made me came running to CZcams. Thank you for this Peter.
Best podcast I've ever listened. So far. Bravissimo Peter.❤
I am really looking forward to the next episode(s) with Olav!
oh wow guys, this is so so interesting! Technical yet not burry in theory and not applicatif. Golden pod right there
amazing podcast, as always good quality. I can't wait for what's next.
Would love more technical discussions of this nature, thank you.
This absolutely has to be a series, would love to hear discussions on all the topics listed at the end!
Priceless episode 👏! The guest still has so much to say...it's incrible!
Great pod! Looking forward to the continuation🔥
incredible content. Masters degree level stuff - thank you !
Great podcast! For me one of your best and I know most of them.
You ask the right question and you are specific in asking. Thanks a lot. Well spend 2,5 hours.
your best video - extremely well formulated and analyzed - definitely top end of performance nerd - thank you
Best pod cast on CZcams period.
Best podcast to date !
i could listen to these 2 for hours. so interesting
Peter we know you're smart. Please don't interrupt the guy FFS! Just let him speak PLEASE!!! Thank you for the incredible guest!
One of the best episodes...
LOVED this episode. I hope you two reunite for that discussion about HRV (and Peter's other 7 pages of questions).
Pure gold ! (At least for me)
Unreal podcast, completely turned my understanding upside down. I thought the rate limiting step was at the mitochondria. Seems like it is more about stroke volume/hemoglobin/myoglobin axis. I was of the thinking that the lung could always diffuse enough oxygen/co2 through the aveoli, wondering if that was true.
Now I’m thinking about doping in cycling and It make sense with even these guys in the tour 2 decades ago were getting 10% faster/more power (going up hills drag has a marginal effect) with a boost in hematocrit without necessarily training with hematocrit that high. Makes sense that you isolated mitochondria can use 300-500ml/kg.
I don't think the lungs are the bottleneck, no. The saturation of oxygen on hemoglobin molecules after passing through the lungs is close to 100 % in healthy individuals. Even when exercising, I think?
God dam dude you got Blummenfelt's coach and not even hint at it in the title. Have to rewatch the podcast, the dude is outputting so much valuable info
wow, what a great episode
I understand about 20% of this discussion but it's a game-changer as one who recently became very interested in VO2 Max for health reasons - well done Peter.
VO2 max is calculated by weight and oxygen so if you’re overweight losing the extra weight will increase it alone.
Power is the King!
Understanding vo2max and it’s centrality to health and longevity really is the keys to the kingdom.
Great talk! Let's work on our VO2 max now! 🫁
This is soo cool!
Awesome Podcast. Could you interview Pavel Tsatsouline sometime in the future?
Surprised by Peter's fundamental misunderstanding of metabolic efficiency being entirely a precursor to mechanical power and therefore not being related to his speed improvements at 21:00
Love the dynamic between these two! If Olav is not held back he will go on crazy tangents. Peter brings him right back on topic, and summarizes the information so neatly. Need more of these!!
This was amazing! Intense levels of nuance happening here!! I am curious about reaching breathing limits by running and pedaling versus doing squats or picking up a heavy weight. Pick up a big weight once every 45 seconds for an hour versus pedal at .8 RPE for an hour. Imagine heart rate is kept at same number of total beats over that hour. This was brushed upon regarding pedaling in bursts vs continuous. More simply - muscle fiber types versus VO2 max? Are hybrid fibers associated with longevity? Thanks for your amazing combination of interview skills and guest technical expertise.
This needs to be 3 times longer
I've been trying the descending ladder VO2 intervals that came out of the study at Florida State. I've been doing 3m/2/1/45s/30s x 20 intervals at close to my 5min power max (93%) with 2/3rds rate recovery... I've been sensing what Peter what alluding to that the intervals aren't long enough to fully tax the respiratory system although during the 20 rounds of 30sec I feel my legs getting really fatigued
Very interesting
you should bring chong xie on the fascia, he has some very good insights and research about the feet, fascia and the role in movement and health
The discussion around the 56-59 minute mark should be part of the second edition of your book.
Question for both: I’m looking for a new fitness tracker that accurately measures Vo2… would much appreciate your recommendations. Thank you!
Have seen some CZcamsrs testing their vo2 max in a lab and with a garmin watch and it pretty close. And even the old school vo2 running test will bring you pretty close. Even if it’s higher or lower the most important is to see if you’re improving 👌
Yes, Garmin is pretty accurate for me. But you can quite easily back test this yourself with just a stop watch and do a 12 minute Cooper-test on a track or on do 20 minute test uphill on a bicycle with an accurate powermeter.
I just had my Vo2 measured in a lab and it was exactly the same as my Garmin measurement.
I have listened this while having Av work out at my local gym. I was enjoying it so much that I wanted to inform local personal trainer who was also working out but unfortunately and regrettably he did not know who Peter Attia was.. so disappointed!!
Great guest and topics but super frustrating ! Please : when you open a subject make sure to let your guest finish his response. You keep cutting him in the middle of his answer and you add precisions to you initial question that, at the end, is not even answered anymore and you jump from subject to subject without even ending any of them. Frustrating!
I completely agree w your comment, let the guest complete the answer!
You are right. I agree, Olav should talk without interruption.
Everyone has to show how smart they are
He interrupts like a kid.
Not the first time.
Yes disappointing interview due to interviewer .
Great interview 👍What is the name of the device to measure your VO2max ,could you please write it down🙏Thank you
Vo2Master....$6,295 plus servicing. Not for avarage Joe who maybe should be walking instead running 😅
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7523887/
@@krismajowicz8069 As Olav alluded to, it will be democratized (i.e. come down in price) during the next 5-10 years, though.
Hey Peter, I love your videos. The algorithm might be more kind if you schedule your uploads for about 9am eastern. Not sure why but the algorithm likes it.
biggest takeaway - surfing is the single best workout a human can possibly do 🏄♂️ 🤙
Wow!
0:33 This is me. I have excellent heart and lungs (h-u-g-e lung capacity) and I have had serious illnesses and I have chronic condiditions.
This episode is equivalent to an oscar 😀
Olav!!!
Does anyone know if creatine will help improve vo2max given an appropriate training regiment?
No, not really at all.
No
Great podcast! But Attia is not very updated on the real W/kg values of some of the cyclist nowadays. Vingegaard and Pogacar, the 2 absolute monsters in the sport, have reached values between 6.7 and 7.1 W/kg. They even surpassed the mean values of Pantani, Armstrong, Ulrich, Indurain, etc. So far they are clean and so far they are breaking records on the historical climbs of the Tour and on other important competitions. Records that were from guys that used PEDs.
To clarify: If you’re an amateur who’s never going to be a pro one day this is way too complicated for you to do. Just ride more slow sessions to increase your training load over time. Second VO2max is also calculated on weight, so if you are overweight simply losing the extra weight will increase it.
If the CDA is the same and power is the same, wouldn't the last variables be weight and weather conditions?
What are your guys main takeaways from this episode?
As a non native speaker I had trouble getting the main points for a normal dude looking for longevity
Honestly, there is not that much practical advice that the average exerciser could take from this. Basically Olav recommended playing with different intervals lengths and look at maximizing total power over a session, as opposed to always using same interval. Some interesting physiology discussed here, but not highly applicable outside of competitive cycling.
Thanks. Very helpful!
@davidgrimes4726 If you don't understand the basics of the conversation, it appears to be less practical. But, the reality is it is a gold mine of multi-faceted applications in practical terms. But, you are correct, it is not dumbed down.
Just do more zone two training and VO2 max is also dependent on weight so if you lose the extra weight it will also increase. A last point is that your training load shouldn’t be larger than you can sustain it for months or even years. Consistency wins.
A variety of intervals and intensities is what raises VO2 max but Zone 2 compliments that and is also required.
Get John welbourn on good friend of dr parsley former nfl vet and trains the top heavyweight jiu jitsu competitors currently
Peter keeps repeating the same thing about VO2max always avoiding to discuss the elephant in the room and that's correlation versus causality.
V02 max levels are largely genetic and that is probably the reason why people are living longer.
The longest lived human beings invariably are not athletes and did not train for most of their life. They were born to the right parents.
Most runners swimmers and cyclists are dying before age 90.
Are "elites" always inherently better or do they simply train better? I note that you draw a crude distinction between "elites" and everyone else.
Both. One of the attributes of an elite is simply the ability to train more and recover better. It's mostly genetically determined.
Great podcast. But please stop interrupting him
Is VO2 Master a public company?! Hopefully Peter and Friends will order enough for the price to be cut in half in a year or so! 😂
It is good to hear Olav, but 2 hours 47 minutes is way too long.
Now Peter wants to go high! Next will be Christian Blumenfeldt!
Atria you’re a fuvkin grump❤
Half His family died, how sad. Anyone know more about this?
He discusses it on the RichRoll podcast
@@stuartallington7046 thank you
They died in a helicopter crash.
For Anyone crunched for time, how about a summary?
summary is - find time to watch the entire episode, its pure gold.
not helpful@@batporio Have a great day
overall : glucose + oxygen => water + CO2+ energy
Peter’s declining ambitions and expectations sadden me. When this podcast started, he talked with excitement about ideas for reversing aging and improving performance at things he loved. Now he’s talking about working an hour or two a day for thirty years, not for the joy of exercise or the things it lets him do, but to be marginally less atrophied at 90.
That said, Peter conveys great information and I'd obviously rather he be honest about his evolving views than tell optimistic lies.
This just in… there is an unsubscribe option!
Did you listen to Peter's intro ? He literally says how "excited and enthusiastic " he is about this subject lol
It’s just a change of focus. His career is 📈 and he loves spending time with his family. You can’t achieve all of that and spend 4 hours a day on a long run, bike, or swim. Me being late 30’s it actually warms my heart to see someone that close to balance. That’s the real 🏔️ achievement.
Hmmm... Attia has never advocated the reversing of aging. He has always thought that age reversing is the wrong parameter to define improving quality of life. But, he has interviewed people who do think that the reversing (or slowing) of aging is viable. He thinks the best approach to longevity is defined by performance improved through training and not pills or supplements.
Just black box it
Norwegians go deep
Don’t be sad if you don’t understand. What they are talking about is fine-tuning a Formula One car. You are in comparison a twenty year old Toyota.
"Basically"
Sweet pajamas
Is this the nerdiest interview ever? 😂
Vo2max is not the best predictor for preformance. No one of them have any high preformance background.
Eh… Gustav and Kristian is top elite.
@@ketle369 They have been training sens 5 years old, no party no woman. Very adapted mitocondria. Its not because Olav is so smart or even worse Peter Attia, they just want to make money 😂😂
I'm lost.
Not to worry. They are talking about fine tuning a Formula One car. You’re in comparison a twenty year old Toyota. There’s a lot do be done before you reach this level.
Wrong...grip strength (strength and muscle) is a far more superior indicator of longevity vs anything aerobic, your muscles your strength and your physical grip strength, your ability to get up, to pick something up, move something heavy, is the number one indicator against all cause mortality and for long term longevity, I see way too many skinny and frail snowflakes who are busy running and walking and running and walking yet are physically lacking in any sort of upper body muscle and strength because they ignore strength based activities and rely only on the exaggerated cardio myth, it's the runners look with pale face and low muscle mass (skinny fat) with no grip strength, these are the same kind of people who will neglect strength training as they age instead opting for everything aerobic based and then they can't lift the heavy rock that accidently falls on them when running or hiking.
Check out 'AMA #27: The importance of muscle mass, strength, and cardiorespiratory fitness for longevity' where he analyzed this and came to the conclusion that VO2 max seems to be more important. But that doesn't mean strength is not important of course.
Both is important.
The best approach for longevity is a mix of both,so no use to have a high VO2max if you have no strength and no use to have a lot of muscle mass if the engine has no power and your cardiovascular system is in bad shape
Like other episodes they are confusing the difference between correlation and causality. People who tend to live longer.It's because of their genetics and it's their genetics that allows them to have a high VO2m.
Close to zero percent of centenarians are or were athletes.
@@Re3iRtH How many percent of the population in general are athletes who also keep their vo2max high until they die?