Swordsmanship, "Mastery", and the Role of Sparring in Martial Arts
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- čas přidán 11. 06. 2024
- This is not meant to be controversial, although the topic is sometimes debated with heated fervor. Just my perspective on the practice of HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts), as well as the benefits and limitations of sparring.
Of course it all depends on your personal interests and goals. Some folks just want some fun exercise with swords, others want to develop a high level of skill to compete in tournaments and/or deepen their understanding of historical combat. Or maybe you enjoy the community aspect of it. Whatever it may be, there is plenty to explore and experience.
Relevant videos:
HEMA instructors fighting with the Polish saber - Lee Smith vs. Richard Marsden
• HEMA instructors fight...
My Sword Fighting Journey and the Skill Gap in HEMA
• My Sword Fighting Jour...
Longsword and Saber/Messer Sparring With Commentary (7 April 2019)
• Longsword and Saber/Me...
The Power of a Covered Thrust (Longsword Technique)
• The Power of a Covered...
Are Hands Hits in Sword Sparring REALLY No Big Deal?
• Are Hands Hits in Swor...
I Had HIGH Expectations for These Gauntlets...
• I Had HIGH Expectation...
The Best Gloves for Longsword Sparring (As of April 2018)
• The Best Gloves for Lo...
** Music credits **
Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
theslantedroom.github.io/stev...
Used with artist's permission
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#skallagrim #hema #martialarts #sparring #medieval #history #sword #swordfighting - Zábava
The thing about sparring is that it's hard to get much better than your sparring partners. That's why drilling is so important because it gets everyone in your community better, some people faster than others. Then you use sparring to re-equalize the levels
And spar with as many different people as possible
In some areas that might be the problem if absolutely no options are available. I usually broadened my horizons by looking to spar with any style, weapons and ruleset given. It has lead me to lovely places and really given me a lot of variety.
Highly recommend to take on as many different things as you get the chance to.
Skal then gets attacked for saying humans are apes and that earth floats in space.
I mean the Earth ain't floating, its just continuously falling towards the sun but also continuously missing.
@@_aullikNoooo, earth is floating....it is a disk floating on a density gradient. (or whatever flerfers spout when they forget their meds)
I object to being called a furless ape. I am clearly a hairless chimpanzee.
@@RoninTF2011 You mean the earth is floating on some very dense liquid?
Like magma?
As a side note? where actually is up? Like how do they know that? Is there maybe some mystical force that defines what is up and down? But how do we name that? I got this great original idea, how about gravity!
@@_aullik You know, there is no gravity its god pressing us down so we don't float away.
And as this god is so wise, when we jump, he lets us get up just as far as it is safe... ;-)
Even sparring in front of a crowd seems to hit people different. Mike Tyson once said in an interview that he's fought people that could "easily" beat him one on one, but couldn't when there was a crowd.
Oh when did we had this logo change? It looks good
Just yesterday. :)
I like it 👌🏻
@@Skallagrim I heartily approve as well.
My experience was that HEMA groups were great for drilling and seriously studying new and historical techniques, while the SCA was great for all the sparring you can endure. I'd encourage people to try both.
Who else feels good about themselves when Skall says thanks for watching if you made it this far.
You should. The average attention span on the internet nowadays is... concerning.
@@SkallagrimIn return, thank you for keeping up the good work. I think a lot of people count you among their favourite creators.
@@Skallagrim What is your average watch time? I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually lower than 4 minutes or something.
Edit: I’ll have you know, by the way, I’m a pretentious *not-at-all* furless ape thank you very much.
"You can surrender in the grave" That ´s the spirit, go get em!
"only in dead does duty ends".. if you try to surrender, a Kommissar might shoot you in the back of the head.. with The Emperor's Blessing ofcourse.
Sparring is important, it's the best and most practical way to highlight errors. Plus it's fun.
Sparring was a gamechanger. After a couple classes where I actually got to spar I improved immeasurably.
Skall, Nice intro and reminder. Also nice to not see a specific CZcamsr's video and unintentionally or other hint at someone. You captured the core of your message and kept it very personal and not directed at anyone. Great video, Keep up the great work!
I found you a few years ago randomly, I'm glad I did. You're a real stand up guy Skallagrim and you inspire me to be better.
nice new profile pic
Thanks!
@@SkallagrimIt’s definitely something.
Yes! New profile picture!
the beaver was cool too
Gos hard af
Rambles for the ramble god, context for the context throne!
Engagement for engagement's sake. (because I guess that's just how the algorythm works)
ah, a benevolent Heretic.. rare ! 😆
It's difficult to discuss ideas with people because most of us take on our own ideas as part of our identity; we end up taking disagreement as a personal attack, and agreement with the other person feels like we're admitting inferiority. Even when we don't realize it, we often feel compelled to compete rather than to let ourselves stay open to learning something new. It's difficult to genuinely listen to someone else's ideas and consider them, and we tend to to come in planning to only explain why our own ideas are superior. We humans do this in every aspect of life, from the most important to the most trivial.
Ayy,this fit with the discussion Jesse Enkampf has raised about sparring in martial arts. It goes beyond Bare Hands it seems.
Ever since i started watching this channel ,with the Bronze weapons and Lightsaber videos,i have been wondering how unarmed martial arts would fit in a Hema duel. The martial arts we have today are different from those in the Renaissance, and the question of Boxing vs Muay Thai becomes more interesting if both are holding swords.
Grappling is of course king,whose skills are transferrable to every exchange.
So i was more curious about striking.
Grappling disciplines pair with/complement almost any striking discipline, armed or unarmed. Not sure what you're getting at with unarmed martial arts, but armed? On some level there's always going to be significant transfer between arts, there's only one human anatomy, human bio-mechanics to learn after all ("there's only one art"). But there are pretty huge differences once you add tools: unarmed
If you look at historical texts there's a fair amount of grappling and a little bit of striking (often kicks).
Fiore' and some of the messer texts are good examples.
Boxing shares a good amount of footwork with fencing. Grappling as you said is relevant to both realms
You surely mean Jesse Enkamp I assume.
Grappling moves (wrestling, jiujutsu, Aikido, other ancient/traditional grappling arts ) were used in sword and spear fights. Some grappling moves were used to steal or disarm the opponent's weapon. kenjutsu fighting used to involve grappling, holding down the opponent's helmets, wrist locks, pins, etc. Grappling came in handy when fighting an armored opponent.
The new profile pic looks awesome, and i liked the tone throughout the video, some just take this topic way to seriously and its kinda intimidating hearing them voice their strong opinions but here i feel relaxed and entertained.
American football shows this how ''familiarity'' can cause more equality. Teams in their own conference, play each other twice. Even for a really good team, vs a team not having a great year, these games can be some if the best, and the closest.
Kind of a shame it gives people brain damage 😢
@@Nerobyrneat least the number of deaths per game went down significantly over the last century.
Doing the thing for the algorithm. As always Skall, amazing video ❤
Doing the thing for the other thing!
@@baoxidiaoyu Doing thing!
I liked hearing your thoughts on this topic. Sparring and non-lethal fighting for practice can be an odd area. Blows are (obviously) pulled in order not to hurt others and there's always the "second life" conundrum- like in a video game, when you die you revive. In real life- to become a "master" -back then- I guess you really had to survive and sometimes just get lucky. Getting better and better over years- sharing your experience with whomever (clan, nation, army, etc.)
0:21 disclaimer for Shad lmao
you mean for sellsword
@@ramboturkey1926...no
I personally enjoy topics like these for the meny different views and opinions. When peoples inflated egos gets in the way of that being fun I often lose interest in that person's part in the conversation.
Have enjoyed seeing your journey and the evolution of your thoughts and practices in HEMA and many other topics throughout the years and hope to do so for many more.
Thanks for always being respectful and fun with others opinions.
Cheers 💚
12:19
-"Are you some kind of serial killer..."
-"Yeah, so what?"
I experienced this kind of acclimation through constant sparring myself, several years ago. A black belt at my school, dojo, whatever you wanna call it, liked flexing things that us lower ranks hadn't even begun to learn whenever he sparred with us, but he was very clearly only familiar with the one discipline, while a few of my actual peers had bounced around between other arts before coming to that school. A couple of those had a bit of... practical experience, too, and being constantly underestimated didn't really phase them.
Past a certain point, well, we collectively still weren't winning because we were point-sparring with a black belt, but we were tying more and more often. The problem, though, was that we weren't actually deepening our understanding of the school's discipline by fighting him, because we kept having to leverage techniques we'd learned from other schools of martial thought in order to keep our heads above water.
And so of course, aside from illustrating how even close-to-objectively less skilled fighters can get your number eventually, this little experience also demonstrates that going all-out all the time is completely counter-productive in a teaching and learning environment.
Also, fuck that guy.
“If you want real combat join the military”
Specifically combat roles. Plenty of guys in the military working desk jobs
I dunno... they ain't using swords there anymore...
It's fascinating how a lot of what you say about sparring applies to other one vs. one sports too.
I used to play ping pong with my neighbour regularly for several years and over time we got so familiar to each other's playing style that whoever won was more about luck than anything else. But whenever someone else came along and played with us, the differences were shown. I e.g. knew a curve ball technique of sort with which I could almost guarantee to get one or two free points from everyone but the most skilled opponents, but it only worked a couple of times against each opponent before they adapted.
I really like how I liked to see your videos here for some years and now i'm a HEMA beginner (first year) everything looks so much authentic and real. Thanks !
Wow the bell finally worked
SKALLS FOR THE SKALLTHRONE
Great stuff Skall. Wise words. I wish the whole Martial Arts community could just get along & learn from each other. It’s how I’ve always viewed them.
Nice profile pic! Loving the energy in these videos. Hoping you are doing a bit better. The algorithm sucks.
The background looks awesome! Loved it!
Thanks Skal, for I don't exactly know what. Reminding me that good people are a thing, maybe ?
I always end your videos with higher hope and in a better mood than i was before. I'm just glad that you are such a good human.
I know i'm completely off topic, but I just felt like saying this. I don't know, you kinda... shined... in that video
I discover your channel for a saber sparring video long long time ago, always love your content since, so yes, sparring matters
This was always my biggest issue with kenjutsu. I love it and the drilling is so important, but without sparring it's very difficult to understand how to apply it. I've not joined a HEMA group yet, but I've sparred a bit with my high quality bokken against HEMA practitioners and it took almost a dozen bouts before i could start seeing how the drills i did applied.
Stellar points. Fantastic presentation. You consistently make me think harder about all this. 🤩🙏🏼
Sparring is great practice and can help keep you in shape. To be honest, staying fit will be a huge advantage in a sparring match or a real fight, especially because you can outlast and out maneuver your opponent.
Love the new channel profile picture!
"As if this isn't weird enough" (gestures to collection of awesome swords and assorted melee weapons).
My only response is "guys will look at something like this and just go "hell yeah!"
The whole "Person who beats the other 80/20% of the time" thing you brought up reminds me of something that happened to me IRL: our kendo dojo gets visits from some pretty big hotshots sometimes, one of which was the president of a certain kendo federation at the time. Dude's a beast, completely wipes the floor with us when he visits. Which is why I keep thinking over and over again about that one time we sparred and I scored the first hit, an undeniable and clean hit to the forearm which would've severed his hand in real combat. Of course he then wiped the floor with me for the next 5 minutes and I was aching for the rest of the week but that exchange still bothers me to this day. The guy's skill and seniority are undeniable, yet he'd be dead in a real fight because I got lucky.
That fight basically taught me how martial arts skill might not translate into real life skill, how arguing about "real swordsmanship" is pointless unless you're actually out there killing people with a sword (I hope you're not). It also taught me that swords are dangerous, people often ask if I could win a real duel or defend myself with a sword and I just answer with "I dunno". Me and some fencer buddies get the same experience whenever we bring over foam swords to play around with our non sword friends and end up losing, it just happens. Real life is complicated.
I'm very grateful for my friend fernando since he's the only one in my area that will spar with me (with foam swords) he's still learning but so am I and I do see him getting better when it comes to learning the technique and the footwork. he's always a reminder that just because I scored a hit doesn't mean the exchange is over, I suck at countering afterblows.
I like the two issues you are addressing here. Good video.
My personal journey in HEMA is definitely not typical. I don't have any sparring partners currently but my main focus is fitness secondary is self defense. I'm almost 50 & have to walk with a walking stick/cane. I started training to use a stick in highschool bailed off woodcuts of French canne. These days I add a lot of longsword & side sword theory into my cane usage.
One thing that doesn't seem to be mentioned much in discussions about this topic:
Most people during history did not learn fighting from "masters" either.
At least, not masters in the same way we consider people like Fiore and Marozzo and so on.
Even when it comes to sword-fighting, let alone more common weapons like the spear and the bow.
I don't have any clear, solid evidence, but most people seem to have learned fighting from:
1. Someone in the family who has martial experience.
2. A neighbor from the same village or town (or one near).
3. On campaign, from a more experienced warrior, who may have had an official position as trainer, or it could have been a more informal affair, in a senior-junior relationship.
4. Well organized militaries (like the Romans) had people to take care of training the recruits - basically, the equivalent of modern drill sergeants.
Of course, these could be combined, and it obviously varies with location and historical period.
For example, you might have an entire social class or ethnic group forming a warrior caste, like various groups in India, who habitually send their children to be trained by professionals in schools called akhara or akhada.
Learning from the kind of masters who write treatises is very much what only a minority of people did back in the day: well-off nobles and merchants.
It's just that in most cases, we modern people didn't have access to a living lineage of trainers, so we had to fall back on treatises and manuals.
I remember one of my Kendo teachers says that sparring tends to be more fun than the drills and technique study, but doesn't really make you better. Its main use is self-assessment of your growth.
As a subscribed viewer who indeed hails by the name which you have mentioned, you are indeed in so much trouble. :P
Good job Skall. Really good info.
Yes! Instant like for the attitude in the beginning of this video.
Am a true spanish-malth-irish knights descendant. and I WANT to keep EUMA alive, I live near Ponferrada and its a Templar city so medieval spirit is alive here, but not like in other places in Spain. And I really want to have sparrying but I dont know no one near here that wants to train with wooden swords (I dont have a complete armor and dont want no one to get injured) so am training with my steel sword myself, I downloaded Meyer´s fechtbuch and am trying to be capable of handling an Excalibur replica with high speed, accuracy and control before doing sparrying, that will both decrease injuries risk and motivate me for seeing how much did I learn just "by myself" :)
Edit:You're right, it's slower and it's much easier to develop bad habits simply because you don't have the punishment of failure in sparring, but if you're skilled and you don't have other means there's really enough information to achieve it, and if you like to achieve things by yourself as is my case it's even more satisfying. In any case, great things can be done with cunning, the most important thing is strategy, although force is very necessary. Even so, on my second day of training with the Wrath Guard (I think that's how it is written) I hadn't even memorized the entire stance, that is, I still had to correct the details when putting it on, I realized that I could turn my wrists and throw a fast upward slash at 90 or 45º and that's something that a novice swordsman shouldn't know. So you can play that too, strategy, deception...
I really like the method of not letting beginners spar until they establish a foundation of technique.
That way it keeps them from being so spazzy and inadvertently learning bad habits. It’s not perfect but it made sense for me.
The lighting in this one is especially nice
Fantastic video! It was strangely reassuring
Heh, I joined the military, served 20+ years, and the closest I came to combat was a firefight in the distance...and I'm perfectly good with that! ;) Trying to get some HEMA training, so I can have non-serious 'fights' while getting into shape again ;) (Also curious if my fencing training will help at all)
A very interesting video I've discovered here & i thank you for it. In addition your talk about sword techniques in this video reminded me of an old school one that used to be featured in RPG like video games from the early 2000's alot. The technque too was 1 that I never could understand if it had a real life counterpart, or not. It was used with swords like rapiers a lot as well, & sometimes would be called ripoprostre. A move too that was often displayed as a flurry of stabs & after you disarmed or parried your opponent.
For once i got a notice skall uploaded :S
Probably because "martial arts" and sparring were in the title
Skall bringing the wisdom! 😎⚔️😎
here's a comment, for engagement's sake! but also, I highly agree with the overall idea on the importance of sparring. It SHOULD be there as an important element, but if it's not, all's good! it's OK. Historical martial arts and swordplay in general can also focus on the academic side.
Well, that was a banger of an intro.
At 58 the recovery time from my sparring (and other) injuries is getting longer, so don't skip the safety gear. :)
Erm, actually, we aren't hairless apes, we have fur/hair.
Jokes aside, you touched on a lot of great points throughout the video, and explained them well. It was a good watch, so thank you, and nice job!
Not quite hairless, but very much less hairy XD
That's why I said FURless. Semi-hairy apes. :)
@@Skallagrim Ah, but fur and hair are technically the same thing. There is no actual difference between them. As a biologist, I will die on this hill, lol. but we definitely have less than most apes
I shall shave a chimp and do a Diogenes
People tend to forget that we are fencing together and not against each other.
Skall doesn't need The Rumbling he is The Rumbling
Idk why but the video title really captured me compared to other less tangible titles. I just like the topic on mastery and it's influence on my slightly dangerous social circle
This was a armory side chat with Uncle Skal
I'm not a youtuber or a HEMA practioner, and yet I still feel called out... ;)
I love it! I completely agree that pressure in sword fighting isn’t like it used to be because…. Guns…. Yah if you want real fighting join the military, best comment ever! I think Matt Easton’s video about context was the best vid I have ever seen on this topic, if your goal is to be a 18th century calvary officer, probably need to spend more than 50% of your training time riding a horse! If your goal is to win an MMA tournament, then wrestling and boxing are very important. If your goal is women’s self defense, then assuming you are the same size and strength of your opponent is disastrous and you need to focus on force multipliers and leverage. This is why finding a club that has the same goals as you is so important! In swordsmanship, we don’t have the competitive pressure we had hundreds of years ago, but they didn’t have the free flow of information we have today. It’s really an exiting time to be alive because swordsmanship at the top level might be as good as it has ever been. I know the old fight manuals each represent a lifetime of work and the worlds top athletes arn’t going into HEMA….. but it’s come so far in the past ten years!
Man I get that about the worst injuries not being in sports. And I say this given I have hip damage, shoulder damage, a few concussions, and arthritis from SCA fighting. But I did tear every gripping tendon, get a TBI, blown discs, scars, etc from work accidents.
This thing about the duels and you can't assume that someone with higher skill always wins reminded me about a story from Japan. Idk how accurate this one is:
A sword master was offended by a servant from another important person. He was curios how an beginner would fight. So he demanded a duel on death instead of simply execute him.
After the fight, he won, he said, it was quite close, because the servant fought desperately but without fear of death - he would have been executed anyway.
All you need to loose is a bad day, wrong food, a cold, a slippy rock, whatever.
Perhaps he used a trick or a technique you did not expect him to be able of, and you are gone.
In sparring and HEMA you always have some safety restrictions you would not have in a real duel or fighting situations in earlier times. And afaik there were not as many "sword masters" who did this just for fun. Guess you had to have a really special character for such a thing.
Let's face it, it is a good thing we don't slaughter each other for "my kung fu is better than yours". Just let us have some fun with nerdy shit ^^
i agreed until the last part. BRING BACK WAR AND PROPER CONTEST!
@@praxus6902bring back war says the guy whos never been to a war
@@taistelusammakko5088how could i have been? a proper war hasn't been fought since ww2
Great video.
Conflicts are progress though, so the idea of "all get along" is stagnation.
So I thrive in the discussion, the conflicts. It is like sparring, highlights our flaws and lets us test our arguments.
So take this video to heart both for sparring with swords and with words. The pen is a mighty weapon as well.
The new channel picture is nice, will miss the old one tho
The nuts and bolts of a fight are attack the bit that is sticking out. The number of times I see an elbow or knee exposed and give them a thwack. I have been in a live-blade fight; reenactors can get angry really quickly; it is over before you know it started. Best just to enjoy it. Don't time travel to the 1990s reenactment world!
Great video on an important topic. Resharing to my club
Yes, rambly skall is back!
I’m a HEMA practitioner myself, but I unfortunately can’t spar because as it happens to be, my area doesn’t have any HEMA clubs that I’m aware of, and I’m stuck with practicing by myself.
time to move chief, otherwise its all larp
That's a common problem, yeah. Many people are interested but don't have any club/school within reasonable distance.
@@Skallagrim, if I ever see a HEMA club if my area hosts a renaissance fair, I’ll see if they’re local so I can get to learning under some instructors in lieu of trying and practicing techniques I see applied.
@@praxus6902, easy for you to say. Moving’s expensive and it’s not like I can move much on my own terms anyways.
@@Cru128i know just trollin'. wish it were that easy
Great vid as usual.
Everyone good at sword fighting or anything else became good through years of practice, sparring and analysis of their game by their teachers.
The only difference is that now we (thank God) don't have to use the skills in anger......the prep is pretty much the same, better in many ways with new tech.
Real life or death duels would definitely hone ability, battles are possibly equally luck and ability?
I love the new pfp!
Just relax and enjoy the clinging metal sticks in your own way, totally agree. Btw cool new channel pfp
Nice hearing ya!
Well said
One thing I think happens a lot is that we accidentally improve certain techniques by cross applying knowledge from other schools or martial arts. Maybe one of these manuscripts has a somewhat flawed technique that wouldn't work very well against some opponents, but because the modern students have trained in Olympic fencing or Kendo, they automatically correct the mistake in their mind. Just because a master could pull off a technique didn't necessarily make viable for anyone else. But with the benefit of hindsight, we can see how that great idea can be refined.
Calling someone normal is just the polite way of saying they are boring.
All hail the weirdos.
Good video. Keep em comin
Peace and positivity.
Fun exercise with a sword - exactly how I feel whenever I swing steel (or synthetics).😂
The fact is a lethal weapon fight is on average a 1 shot deal and aggression on average is the dominant factor followed by skill
Well put, our interest in HEMA , swords, medieval culture is fun! Constant bickering and harsh criticism takes away from that. No system for improving ourselves is perfect, but pressure testing through sparring is definitely a good tool in the box.
that new profile pic (or emblem, next to the channel name ) is badazz! helmet-ed hema superhero vibes
I personally love sparring, as long as it's good sportsmanship. I don't like people who care too much about "winning" sparring, to the point they try to injure or maim the other person just to win sparring round. I have never refused to spar anyone. I will take on anybody, if I get beaten I will learn. Winning gives me less satisfaction than improving, I think people who have a lot of ego in sparring have a low level of personal development or experience.
You see the adaping to opponents a lot in 1v1 fighting games like Tekken, Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat. It's not unusual to go against an opponent and lose a few times because they hit you with something unexpected/unconventional/not what you are usually used to, but then once you figure out your response to their strategy you can either consistently beat them (If they don't adapt to their adaptation) or you even the playing field as you force them to start playing differently to adapt to your response. There's also the fact that you can either study people you are fighting in tournaments to understand their weaknesses, or that people who use certain characters will generally use similar strategies so exposure to more of that helps.
Similar with fist fighting, you could be a world class martial artist but if some random person with no experience does something unexpected or you are having a bad day and lands a good hook on your jaw it can easily be game over. Experience and skill can mitigate how often and the extent of you getting hurt, but a good hit landing will hurt a novice and a master all the same.
The beauty of the knowledge curve, where the deeper you go you understand how little you know, but you also notice more how people get it wrong.
Does that stop you from getting any solid answers? No, but it does means you will add a lot more asterisks to your answers.
First comment on this awesome channel
Was that opening disclaimer because of sellsword arts and shad’s drama?
I really love the final words. We all should get along with each other. Macho BS is just BS with a bad explanation of over inflated ego and usually only to cover up the fragile and uncertain person underneath the cover.
I have fought literally hundreds of people in different forms of sparring from buffered weapon wars and practice to seriously good level of teachers in many forms of melee weapons. Any weapons. Mostly steel ones. The most important lessons I get are 1:Losing and asking what can I do differently and What Did I do well? 2:Sparring with as much of different ways and styles as possible. Relaxing in the face of violence is the best thing one can have with any martial arts, especially with armed combat. 3:Sharing the knowledge with like-minded people in any way possible.
Not really a master of any art, more like a dog of war that some call their teacher, few even a master. And still happy to get challenged even to lose that, just to learn more.
I agree wholeheartedly.
7:15 If you do HEMA in the vicinity of the US northeast, NJ-HFA runs a yearly open training event called Springeck which is intended to give people an opportunity to spar with unfamiliar people, in a non-tournament environment.
cool
In the Honorverse book series, they had robots to practise against, mostly for unarmed combat, but I guess blunt weapons, too.
So you could hit them as hard as you wanted...
Skallagrim you could open a fitness center for people that aren't into fitness. Your motto would be "It's fun exercise with SWORDS!".
Your Wall of Weapons is glorious
It amuses just how much most of the advice here also mirrors how to improve at fighting games.