Israel and the ICC: The Court, the Threat, and What We Do Next
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
- On May 20th, ICC Chief Prosecutor Karim Khan informed the press he was seeking warrants for the arrest of Israeli leaders Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, along with three leaders of the Hamas terrorist organisation. On May 21, the Israel Law & Liberty Forum hosted international legal scholars Professor Orde Kittrie, Professor Avi Bell, and Barrister Natasha Hausdorff, the Legal Director of the UK Lawyers for Israel Charitable Trust to analyse the ICC, the implications for Israel and the West more broadly, and what steps might be taken to push back against lawfare by international institutions.
• Israel and the ICC: Th...
הפורום הישראלי למשפט וחירות
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Support to Israel from UK.
ICC? More like CIC or CRIMINAL INTERNATIONAL COURT!!!!
Corrupted International Court 😂 I agree 💯
What a joke that institution 🤬
Seems like it:
G4HFnyBDHC4
You’re not wrong
A kangeroo court. But with a Khan in top position, that's no surprise.
Much respect for Natasha Hausdorff. She is a great defender of Israel.
A forensic demolition of a kangaroo court.
Great interview: strong arguments for Israel's interests in today's war contexts. Best wishes and prayers for this effort.
Great stuff
Thank you for this very informative talk!
Support to Israel from the universe
❤
Great ❤
Thank you!
Excellent, Thank You all!
Very interesting and educational. Thank you all so much; I no longer feel like such a mushroom!
Israel, STOP caring about others opinions and do what you need to do for your country and for your people's best and do it fast. Every new day those Ah will just plot a new thing to try to stop you
This! 💯%
I think the same, Israel has taken to long to deal with Hamas, they should stop doing all these campains of caring for the enemy and do as any other country would
Awesome team❤
Thank you. Very informative. I agree that Isreal should not engage at all with the ICC.
What a brilliant team!
Great panel with brilliant arguments and analysis. Loved Mr Bell’s advice esp re not co-operating with ICC, going forward. It is futile to argue with muslim-loving institutions. IL - BE STRONG AND CARRY ON - WIN THE WAR using all available tools you have. Victory will be yours, forever. Love Israel and all IDF soldiers.❤❤❤❤
We need to assemble an ILF, international legal force, to join forces with the IDF to combat new militants operating in the UN and other legal spheres!
We support and pray for Israel!
The problem is , that the bare accusation even if there is no base at all is enough to alter public opinion and stare a lot of turmoil, inside and outside of Israel... The court didn't find Israel guilty of genocide and still the way it was interpretated as such ,and it took month to clarify.
Again this accusation is about further starvation without clarifying the different events and pointing out the different parties responsible for that sad situation .
It's a far step to accuse a legitimate state in war against a terrorist organisation, which sadly for all sides was voted by the people suffering their mislead , would be accused of the outcome of this war.
All while there is still fire on Israel and Israel shall leave the border open and risk the live of their soldiers
The only logical thing now is to warrant the arrest of the prosecutor.
God bless America and every nation that can distinguish the fallacies advocating 'equality' between criminal versus honest search for order, while in fact, they are exclusive to each other. May the truth prevail.
Wow, looking forward to this 🙏 Great panel! 💙🤍💙 Particularly Natasha, I’d love to hear her speak for hours 💪
Very informative. Thank you.
Excellent input. I pray that the Israeli govt and military leaders will seriously consider every comment made here.
I watch everything.
What an interesting discussion, I am not a lawyer, as a layman I could follow it well. I hope that the recommendations made by these experts will be followed up in countries that are improving. That this biased Chief Prosecutor can be challenged.
What I wonder, one of the participants made a comment that Khan will prosecute or detain/arrest people who criticize the ICC. That can't be taken seriously, can it? Or did I misunderstand that?
Well said Natasha 👏 🇬🇧
Israel should avoid the ICC completely. Prosecutor Karim Khan only named three Hamas leaders in his arrest warrants. Yahya Sinwar will not leave Gaza, as he exercises control through fear. Mohammad Deif is too wounded to move. Ismail Haniyeh is the only one that this warrant may apply. Haniyeh travels to Egypt, Iran, Qatar, Russia, South Africa, Syria, and Turkey. Egypt, Iran, and South Africa are the only three states who signed (Syria signed but did not ratify) the Rome Statue of the ICC, but it is highly doubtful that any of these countries would ever turn over the Hamas leader to the court.
I believe that South Africa is only signatory in the countries you list.
Best explanation of the ICC anywhere.
Natasha being brilliant again. And she does have the best accent on the show 😉
I can't help but wonder how useful LLMs could be for Natasha, such as Mixtral-8x22B, Meta-Llama-3-70B, Claude-3-Opus, GPT-4o, etc., if they were fine-tuned on the specific law texts she references.
You have Avi Bell, why not also Avi Ron? I hear Avi Ron knows a lot about issues related to Israeli aviation.
Sorry, I have no self control and I should be ashamed of myself, but I learned from the ICC to not have any shame when I'm being stupid.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the term 'war crimes' can only be applied in relation to those considered a legitimate, universally recognized, lawful force. In this case, Hamas is not a legitimate lawful entity but is universally recognized as terrorists. Terrorists are classified under entirely different laws than legitimate armies. There are no Geneva conventions for terrorists. And for a good reason. As I understand, the actions of a terrorist can never be called 'war crimes' or even 'military actions' because there is another term for that - terrorism - which has much heavier consenquences. It doesn't matter whether the actions of terrorists conform to the laws of warfare or not; their actions will always be called terrorism. Khan talking about the terrorists as a legitimate lawful force and even more, handling them as such, means that in his eyes Hamas is leveled up from the juridical status "terrorists" to juridical status "legitimate lawful force". For example, if someone steals a bycicle, we could call him thief. But if he murders a person next day, we will have to call him murderer. But if we call him thief after he have murdered a person, and if we prosecute him for stealing a bycicle after it's known he murdered a person, that means we are covering (= turning our eyes away from) the murder. Am I correct? Doesn't that make a signature of Karim Khan under his request to issue an order for Hamas leaders a sincere confession of the international crime called "supporting/covering/advocating for terrorist organization" ? Isn't it a time we start prosecuting the prosecutor? And also all the others who's telling things like "....7 october attack didn't happen in the vacuum...." ? What would happen with UN Secretary, if he said that 9/11 attack in NY also didn't happen in the vacuum? I think he would fly out of his chair like a cap of a champagne bottle.
ADDED:::of course my inpatience played a bad game with me again )))) On 50:50 you started talking about more agressief approach. Finally someone is talking common sense. We have laws in place. What we need is lawenforcement. And I would say, we need very, very agressive law enforcement. And I wouldn't even limit myself with ICC. There are criminals in the UN, Red Cross, Amnesty International, UNWRA and more.
I support PM Netanyahu. The ICC is nuts.
There is a sitting Muslim judge , Khan what else would be expected
The ICC is nuts.
I do not support PM Netanyahu.
This should be
Interesting
Is there a legal ground or process through which the ICC prosecutor and the court can be accused of falsifying evidence by ignoring recent research which showed that the casualties rates in Gaza were grossly manipulated and that the humanitarian aid provided to Gaza, contrary to what has been generally advocated, has in fact been exceeding the required daily minimum rate of calories to avoid starvation.
What ever happened the truth!!
I hope the countries supporting the ICC stop doing so. At least force them to first investigate every case before putting it out to the media knowingly influencing public opinion in favour for a terrorist state of Hamass .
The law is a minefield for the layman, but you have all managed to provide clarification on all matters related to these alleged war crimes, and also how the system works for and against the international community. Many thanks. As always Natasha a real gem and so great to meet others in the same community internationally, fantastic presentation and one that I am sure will shake the seats of the ICC…thank you all so much much appreciated.
If we argue that the ICC lacks jurisdiction for Israel since Palestine is not a State, doesn't that mean that the case against Hamas leaders also has to be dropped?
The ICC has no authority over non member states, Israel is not a member state. Palestine is. Put aside the fact that Palestine is not a real state but that's a different subject. Countries have to accept the authority of the ICC for it go have authority over them. That's how it works.
Israel should ignore the ICC & the ICJ. Withdraw, don’t participate.
@@rennyskiathitis8178 got it, thanks!
Not sure whether you've ended this session. So my question is if the Palestinians do get a recognised State, which looks likely does that mean the ICC will then have jurisdiction over Jewish settlements in Judea and Samaria, and what does this mean legally for Israel?
There is only one body that can recognise a Palestinian state, the body that has sovereignty over the territory in question, the State of Israel. That is not going to happen, especially not after October 7th.
But, to answer your hypothetical question, Abu Mazen declared that "not one Israeli will remain in a Palestinian territory", so no, the other hypothetical scenario, of ICC jurisdiction over Jewish settlements, can not be implemented.
Aren't Gaza, Judea, and Samaria, according to international law, already part of Israel?
@@thevillageyidYes.
@@thevillageyid Very much so.
The ICC warrants applied for are purely aimed at the media to garner more hate against Israel. Within the law, they don’t have a leg to stand on.
Zechariah 12:3 KJV - And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Media war is hard to win ... slogans blaming Israel are very catching by people who dont have the interest to listen to well informed and discussions you offer.
Law abiding, peaceful people can be easily influenced by horrific pictures ....and fashists can be voted for by a majority and lead people to distruction.
People should vote for people stating their true moral statements and not the people who try to please everyone... but we all know that this is not how it works.
The ICC - is that International Court of Criminals?
For those who dont know who the PLO are. They are the Palestinian Organization. Or : Palestinian LIBERATION Organization. Meaning The ICC is are friends or Allies to the PLO.
In the move to create a two-state solution, where would a Palestinian “state” be located? The West Bank? Gaza? In other words, would Israel have to give up some land?
Never going to happen.
You (all) are good. Fantastic learning forum
A lawful
blockade
Starvation ...how long is a piece of string..
What an All-Star team. One of the most insightful videos I have seen in quite a while.
Could it be pointed out that Prosecutor Khan being muslim may have influenced his action?
Gravity
I’d take Nagasaki Hausdorff over Amal Looney Clooney any day!
Absolutely. And this includes all qualities.
Informative. Thank you
God bless all those who defend Israel
I'm amazed that Israel is doing so much to help their enemies. It seems extremely counterproductive.
The ICC are most likely looking to raise funds as they probable think that Japan and Germany will opt out.
Thank you for these brilliant analyses.
Thank you so very much for this clear and moral arguments in defense of Israel. I am deeply saddened by the obsessive demonization and attempts to legitimize the only true democracy in the region.
Bless all those who support and defend Israel Am Yisrael Chai!
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇮🇱🇮🇱🇺🇸🇺🇸
I wonder if Qatar or Iran can step into funding the ICC?
The ICJ never said that genocide took place, or even that it was ‘plausible’. Just listen to Natasha Hausdorff explain the actual ruling. As usual the media deliberately misrepresented a ruling to criticise and berate Israel.
South Africa is a ‘basket case’ they never would have presented this claim in the ICJ were it not for the Iranian funding.
The ICJ is presided by Nawaf Salam, a Lebanese Muslim.
The ICC is presided by Karim Khan, a Pakistani Muslim.
Need any more explanations?
Totally agree with steps that Israel should take in relation to the ICC..
One thing I learned is, the one who laughs last, laughs loadest. I stand by Israel.
👋👋👋👋👋👋👋👋...
❤🇮🇱🇬🇧