T3 Artillery Comparison | Supreme Commander Science

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  • čas přidán 2. 09. 2022
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    Videos referenced:
    • Supreme Commander Cast...
    • Power Generator And Me...
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Komentáře • 54

  • @maksimzal2790
    @maksimzal2790 Před rokem +21

    Fire rate is not the reason actually. More important is the damage radius: the highest for cybran - 9 and the lowest for aeon - 5. Huge radius of explosion allows to hit multiple shields at a time, and there is such thing that each shield dome, adjacent to the one being hit, receives 10% of damage (if I remember correctly). That means, while Emissary hits one shield for 100%, disruptor can hit 2 shields for 110% or 3 shields for 120% and so on.

    • @TheDuelist
      @TheDuelist  Před rokem

      Didn't know about that scaling for multiple shields. I thought it stayed linear. Good call out.

    • @jcvjcvjcvjcv
      @jcvjcvjcvjcv Před rokem +1

      It is not supposed to inflict overlapping damage to shields that are directly hit.

    • @REgamesplayer
      @REgamesplayer Před rokem

      Talk about considering irrelevant things. Overlapping shields will not go down in a shot and the key hit is one which takes them out and proceeding shot is nullified. The biggest advantage here is rate of speed which takes out shields, but prevents nuking precise targets.

  • @JadenDaJedi
    @JadenDaJedi Před rokem +3

    I love the science vids and I love that the extra bitrate on 1440p uploads lets me clearly see the strategic icons. Overall, love your work, keep on rocking!

  • @Regal_Eagle
    @Regal_Eagle Před rokem +31

    One question, you say that aeon artillery couldn't go through shields at all, and the mistake you made here is threefold
    1: Artillery should be ringed by T3 pgens everytime, especially aeon artillery, the fact there wasn't the same test while fully ringed really skewed things against aeon artillery.
    2: They also aren't good at the same thing, Cybran artillery is the best at shield pressure, which was what this test asked for, aeon artillery is best to kill a priority target under a shield, liked a SMD or a Game ender under construction.
    3: The test has wildly different results against assisted shields, for example you can sustain 4-5 fully ringed Cybran artilleries with 40 hives assisting a seraphim shield, you cannot sustain 3 fully ringed aeon artilleries under the same conditions, their alpha damage is just way too high.
    In my opinion, the order of artilleries goes like this
    Aeon > Cybran > UEF > Seraphim.
    Aeon is just too good with it's accuracy to kill targets of priority to dismiss it, Cybran has the best shield pressure of them, and when paired with an aeon artillery, it's basically impossible tos ustain them without shield assist or shield micro. UEF and Seraphim has a balance between the two but in my oppinion, the fact that the UEF is much more accurate while having only 1 radius less of AoE makes it the superior choice between the two, Seraphim is way too inaccurate to be reliable, at least Cybran counteracts this by faster firing rate and an AoE that's almost double the Aeon one.
    I've seen a Seraphim artillery shoot at an unshielded constructing Salvation and miss ALL shots until it was finished... I counted, it was 35 shots...

    • @Flanktank2
      @Flanktank2 Před rokem +1

      Fair but I still think cybran are strongest, aeon artillery are better at breaking individual shields. When they overlap cybran AOE hits multiple shields sometimes double or triple dipping on damage. Also both have t4 arty, I think cybrans t4 is much better even though it can't be ringed for the same reason. Against cybran ALL shields go down vs just one at a time.

    • @upon1772
      @upon1772 Před rokem +3

      I think I agree with you on the tier list of arties of Aeon > Cybran > UEF > Seraphim.
      Something else I noticed in his test was that the 2x artilleries were being firing at the exact same time. This results in both shots hitting the shield at the same exact time causing the shots to damage in mid-air, so to speak, once the shield goes down, and causing 0 damage to anything on the ground. If they had been alternating shots during the other's downtime, I'm sure this test would have turned out very differently.
      Also something to note: The Aeon artillery actually does 12K damage per shot, 6K damage two times. One on impact, and the second a few moments later, mimicking the damage of the Aeon T3 mobile arty that does damage over time, not one large alpha shot like the Duke or Disruptor.

    • @TheDuelist
      @TheDuelist  Před rokem +7

      All good points. I omitted ringing the artillery and assistance with hives to reduce the number of variables to contend with.

    • @nomad_1997
      @nomad_1997 Před rokem

      this tbhqfam, 3 ringed aeon arties are pretty much a game ender, whilst other factions it's more like 4 or 5

    • @Krogoth512
      @Krogoth512 Před rokem +1

      Aeon artillery is the underdog overall. It is more expensive, its poor rate of fire forces your to build power plants (making it a bigger/easier target to nail). Its gimmick is burst damage (It actually does 6000 damage and ~0.25 seconds it does another 6000 damage). It can kill nearly any non-commander, non-T3 naval and non-experimental unit in a single strike. T3 artillery stations in general are last ditch efforts as they cost way too much mass for a limited ROI. You should have easily won with several experimental or a well-supported experimental strike force for the same cost.

  • @RowanMorse
    @RowanMorse Před rokem +4

    There is other factors that should be accounted for here, including having t3 pgens around the arty. Also having one accurate shop can be game winning while shooting blanks like the cybren might hit or miss. I dont think the standard deviation of the arty should be looked over so easily.

  • @historygamez5106
    @historygamez5106 Před rokem +1

    math hurts my brain, why you do this, I understand why, nice science video my dude

  • @Vantlor
    @Vantlor Před rokem +1

    One major problem with this test: Shield type. You only tested vs UEF (or maybe you did more test we don't see?)
    Shield timings are hugely impactful in arty battles. Even in static scenarios like your test the results would be different.
    In real games players that are in the know can manually, and to some degree automate, shield timings under fire. Additionally you can manually time arty, including pausing, targeting and staggered shots from multiple depending on the scenario.
    All in all your video is a great starting point in learning about T3 arty.
    I don't have the time to put it all in a video but there are sooooo many tricks to shields and arty I could share:
    How overlap impacts things, how assisting works, how mobile shields on patrol work, timings, t2/t3 layers, standby shields, paused upgrading... It gets crazy!

  • @Taxes4reTheft
    @Taxes4reTheft Před rokem +6

    Please compare the T2 fighter bombers!!!

  • @GEdluge
    @GEdluge Před rokem

    great content!

  • @justice.2177
    @justice.2177 Před rokem

    Great content, thanks for sharing.
    Can you do experimental artillery next time? And preferably compare them with and without adjacency

  • @karlhoffman9817
    @karlhoffman9817 Před rokem +1

    Great video, I think you need to shoot at maximum range to make a conclusion that fire rate is more important then accuracy)))

  • @Bryan-T
    @Bryan-T Před rokem +2

    I think the only metric that matters is
    mass / time to kill
    Two tests needed for this. One, a base like you did. Two, a single high priority building. Cybran's poor accuracy would be worse on test 2.

  • @MrSnakekaplan
    @MrSnakekaplan Před rokem

    - Despite the radius numbers listed, i always find that specifically Aeon arty destroys 'Rover Drones' under shields.
    - Alpha damage is more important for breaking shields when people have massive eco's and assist shields.
    - Even though all arty gets an advantage from t3 pgens, Aeon see's more benefit because it beats shield recharge where it uniquely did not before (gaining 5 sec is not AS good as gaining 10 sec)
    - Accurate (Aeon) arty is better for spread out bases, less accurate arty wastes damage hitting nothing and can't stack it's AOE.
    Aeon>Cybran>UEF>Seraphim
    In practical purposes, multiple Aeon or Cybran arty are much harder to defend than the UEF and Seraphim which hedged their bets.

  • @jcvjcvjcvjcv
    @jcvjcvjcvjcv Před rokem +1

    If you are after 'killing one smd' with T3 arty... with Cybran arty you likely already destroyed half the base by the time the smd is gone. With aeon you need some lucky hit. The aeon arty can miss too and even with higher accuracy... the damage radius is tiny. So even if shields are down...

  • @joshuagregg513
    @joshuagregg513 Před rokem +3

    The dps given in the tooltip for the emissary is wrong, which might explain its poor performance. If it does 6000 dmg every 20 seconds, that’s 300 dps. Not 600 like the tool tip says.

    • @Regal_Eagle
      @Regal_Eagle Před rokem +10

      The tool tip is actually correct, it's because it does 6000 damage TWICE over the course of the shot, 6000 on impact, 6000 after a delay, it's the same problem with Cybran torps, the dps on them is correct, but the damage of the shot isn't, they do damage over time aswell.

  • @SADTIZZ
    @SADTIZZ Před rokem

    hey brother, sorry if you answered this before but what is your UI mods? your units look lovely! much love fantastic content

  • @jcvjcvjcvjcv
    @jcvjcvjcvjcv Před rokem

    Aeon arty allows huge amount of time to build new shield after downing shield bubbles. Cybran arty has a hugely higher rate of fire and area damage to often not allow new shields to be build.

  • @k-link2353
    @k-link2353 Před rokem +1

    Aeon bad, don't tell Willow :)

  • @shakal_
    @shakal_ Před rokem

    woulde be cool to see a comparison of experimental arty, tho scathis'd a little different from the rest here

  • @AspectsUntold
    @AspectsUntold Před rokem

    So question in followup. Were you just testing with 2 artillery per faction or did you also perform tests with higher and lower numbers of artillery? And did you test on larger bases where factors like the accuracy of the emissary and duke could potentially play a bigger factor in breaking down specific shields?
    Anyway, I enjoyed the video seeing the in depth mechanics is always cool.

    • @TheDuelist
      @TheDuelist  Před rokem +1

      I ran a lot of tests with various amounts of artillery/artillery ringed with pgens/various amounts of shields/clusters of just shields vs mock bases and different base configurations, but decided that all that data and those scenarios were a little redundant and didn't really have any different results of note. With those extra tests, my script was pushing 8 pages (for reference science videos are usually between a one and half to three pages) so the video would've been like 40 minutes long without really adding anything additional.
      For this format where I try to keep the videos around 10 minutes (this one was already pushing my time goals) I decided to limit to one test that I thought told the story best.

  • @bouhbouh9408
    @bouhbouh9408 Před rokem

    The numbers for the aeon artillery in the unit sheet are wrong : it shows 6000 damage, 1shot/20s, 600dps ; that cannot be true. Either the dps is 300, or the damage is 3000, or the fire rate is /10s. According to your testing, fire rate is 20s indeed. Hence damage is wrong. OR there is a hidden mechanic somewhere.

  • @DSzaks
    @DSzaks Před rokem +2

    Aeon stats say 6000 total damage per shot w/ a shot every 20 seconds. That is only 300 damage a second not 600 which would make them not just the slowest arty but the weakest by far. Is that some sort of typo?

    • @FlorestanTrement
      @FlorestanTrement Před rokem +1

      Exactly what I wondered. It doesn't make sense. Either something is missing or that artillery is a scam. The tests results seem to point at the second.

    • @rystiya7262
      @rystiya7262 Před rokem

      @@FlorestanTrement I think aeon T3 artillery have a short damage over time effect, and I have no idea how does it affect the shield...

  • @garrettsmith2882
    @garrettsmith2882 Před rokem

    Dadddddd what are the build rate/ build cost conclusions for uef and seraphim?
    Also how do t3 arty stack up to t4?

  • @chaoscody8323
    @chaoscody8323 Před 5 měsíci

    Finally aeon isn’t the best at something for once

  • @zonerdarkrevention6223

    Cybran Master Race

  • @choyuewong3772
    @choyuewong3772 Před rokem +1

    Excuese me Mr Duelist, how can you get this unit testing mod in FAF ??? I had tried cheat mode of Alt + F2, but I don't know why the Alt + F2 doesn't work in game, what have I done wrong ???

    • @TheDuelist
      @TheDuelist  Před rokem +1

      Cheating has to be enabled in the options before you launch the game. I also use sandbox mode and remove fog of war.

  • @Dude29
    @Dude29 Před rokem

    Yesss supcom science 🧪

  • @007999999999999999
    @007999999999999999 Před rokem +1

    WHAAAT? I thought the Aion arty had like a "double penetration or double explosion" effect that when you paired 2 of them it and made them fire at the same time, they would basically collapse a single T3 shield in a single volley.
    Was that removed at some point?

    • @jcvjcvjcvjcv
      @jcvjcvjcvjcv Před rokem

      No, it's still there. It does 6k dmg, and then like two seconds later another 6k. Sync 2 of them... and you effectively deal 24k dmg, more than any stationary shield.

    • @007999999999999999
      @007999999999999999 Před rokem

      @@jcvjcvjcvjcv So why doe aion arty perfom soo porly here? Did he screw up on some test parameters?

    • @jcvjcvjcvjcv
      @jcvjcvjcvjcv Před rokem +1

      @@007999999999999999
      I didn't watch the video. But seems he didn't ring the arties. Aeon rate of fire is lowest of all. So especially if not ringed... some shield will probably come back up in between shields going down and the next volley.

  • @Telemazer
    @Telemazer Před rokem +1

    information is incomplete, some nuances are not taken into account

  • @QuixoticDucky
    @QuixoticDucky Před rokem

    "I'll link that cast in the description below."
    Doesn't link it in the description below.

    • @TheDuelist
      @TheDuelist  Před rokem

      It's definitely linked under videos referenced lol

  • @skoub3466
    @skoub3466 Před rokem

    They can be usefull againt navy not only bases

  • @mikesully110
    @mikesully110 Před rokem

    Have they buffed T3 arty in FAF ?? In original FA T3 arty seemed totally useless. In Total Annihilation a Big Bertha was terrifying and when you heard a shell land you were living the fear. (Mainly due to no shields in that game). But in SupCom T3 artillery seems to take 5 times longer to build, and if you only have 1 of them the shots just harmlessly bounce off enemy shields. Or if you target enemy mobile units outside the base, the shell takes so long to land they are long gone.

    • @TheDuelist
      @TheDuelist  Před rokem

      Not sure if they have buffed it, but T3 arty can definitely get through shields and be terrifying. Just doesn't happen instantly.

    • @greatoverlordchikonmaster7226
      @greatoverlordchikonmaster7226 Před rokem

      FAF makes them all cheaper, build faster and makes them all have the same range I believe, but not buffed any damage

  • @midnightrun1256
    @midnightrun1256 Před rokem

    I got good at playing alone

  • @midnightrun1256
    @midnightrun1256 Před rokem

    Are these mods

    • @TheDuelist
      @TheDuelist  Před rokem

      This is all done through Forged Alliance Forever (FAF). FAF is a third party maintained community that builds on what the original devs built out and continues to improve it. The link to the website where you can get the FAF client and link your copy is in the description.

  • @REgamesplayer
    @REgamesplayer Před rokem +1

    You also need to consider these artillery pieces holistically. Aeon has experimental artillery with insane fire rate. This artillery essentially would nullify shields while Emissary would deliver a precise killing blow. Also, these whole comparisons are useless. 15 seconds does not mean in 30 minutes game. You are going to win or lose depending at how fast you are playing. Such things hardly matters if at all.