T3 Main Battle Units Really Surprised Me | Supreme Commander Science
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- čas přidán 25. 04. 2022
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Tourney Video: • Tournament Announcement
Forum Post:
forum.faforever.com/topic/370... - Hry
Your tests against the GC were not fair, for the Harbs you moved commanded them in range. For the rest you put an attack command on the GC. This matters because the GC's beam weapon has 0.5 AOE so when the units clump up to attack it at max range on the attack command the GC can hit multiple units at the same time with the beam. Hence the Harbs did better as the GC never did double damage. You should really be putting a move command behind the GC on each test as that is how you get the best engagement against a stationary t4.
Also in a real game 1 Titan will beat 1 loyalist if microed a tiny bit because you move it out of range of the loyalist for 2 seconds and the shield finishes recharging and then you have an extra 600hp to kill the loyalist with. Same thing with Harbs against othuums, the Harb will actually win because the harb stays outside of the Othuums secondary weapons range, and it can run away and let its shield recharge.
Any unit is better than another one if micro'd properly.
Also, based off of pure stats, it seems the Titan would crush the Loyalist, in range, health and damage - But the Loyalist has extra damage against shields - making the 1 on 1 marginally close.
Also, apparently in my tests - Titans are a really good counter to Harbs. Mass for mass they seem to do really well against them. In general, actually. Titans are pretty good!
Then again, I could've done something wrong but I tried my best to keep outside variables to a minimum.
In short, use the advantages that every unit has against another, and it doesn't matter what it is, it could win.
One important matchup I felt was missing was heavy bots vs light bots. Percivals are relevant because they're good against Titans and Loyalists and Harbs.
Bricks and percies will occupy less space on equal cost, which should be an advantage when you need to maneuver around rough terrain or put a large army into battle, I guess? They also have more range, which I assume should be a big advantage if microed well.
Yes, I was thinking that micro'ing changes things significantly, but it is be not easy to test well I suppose.
I love using a few bricks to chomp away at T2/1 armies without getting hit at all (I mainly remember one instance this worked really well)
Evenso I'm still surprised by some of these results, would love some more in depth analysis on why
Something to keep in mind with Cybran units in general and something I always try to look for in videos is if the Cybran players use the stealth units or not, unfortunately they seem to be rarely used even though its a massive advantage to not show up on non-omni radar.
Bricks have shorter range than Percies but they would outrange them with stealth field if the Percies do not get within visual range or have something else constantly scouting for them.
Another thing to keep in mind, the fast firing weapon on the Othum is VERY low on the model, making it clip terrain if there is any elevation. Its fine for an astro, but in a proper map they are very iffy.
One more thing that Bricks and Percivals have going for them is that they have more mass in fewer units, making them less susceptible to splash damage.
watched after 50sec upload lol, love what you do, hope to see you at the tourney, keep up the great work bud
Great video! 1v1 matches often ends before proper T3 phase, so extra tips for T3 units always welcomed.
Love your science videos :D Keep it up! I was shocked othuums didn't kill the GC but harbs did, the othuum secondary weapon has shorter range but is pretty important for it's dps. When its in range and fires, it is king of the t3 bots in my opinion. But when not, it's worse than Ilshavohs or other t2 units.
I love the science vids
Honestly i feel like the t3 main battle units are made for different roles
Where the Percival struggles against spam where the titan doesn't
And cybran is just loyalist for spam and the brick to deal with t3 and experimental units
And for naval shore ambushes
Where the harbinger is a weaker brick mot having a range or health but having the firepower of a brick where the othuum are on the same boat as harbingers but with the ability to also naval ambush and travel water
And honestly i would say for the better t3 unit honestly it really comes down to the brick, harbingers or othuum due to there more versatility against spam,t3 units and experimentals
I would put the best as the brick as they can out micro the othuum and dont have the over kill issue like the perci.
I love the harbs as a strong raid unit just 1 or 2 can win the game if they can get into the back lines.
@@BCase56 like the brick is a more stronger harbinger and it can deal with pretty much anything where as the same is for the harbinger where it a weaker brick but still deadly
So basically: Don't skip titans. Neat
Harbingers and Othams both have really impressive DPS. Harbingers have better DPS than the more expensive Bricks, and Othams possibly have the best DPS per mass ratio of any unit at T2 or T3.
One of the advantages I've come to appreciate from Loyalists is how fast they are - faster than Mantis if the unit database is accurate. I don't understand how their suicide charge feature is meant to be used or what it's good for.
Yea, a Loyalist Runby can cause some *real* problems and they don't need a huge gap in the opfor's defenses to sneak in either. How appropriate for spikey space commies!
I use to make loyals for just the emp on death feature in the late game. It was great to buy time and it use to emp anything including coms.
Harbringer better then Brick???LMFAO.
Harbringer is the shitiest T3 bot in the game.
As a new player these kind of tests are very interesting.
The range of the bricks/percivals allows kiting wich is also important to take into account
Percivals are the only units unofficially classified as 'Tech 3.5.' No other T3 units fits that for a reason. 15 could vaporize Monkeylord nearly instantly.
thanks.
This is a fairly minor point against the Harbs (which is, I think, offset by their general utility) is that they cannot move amphibiously.
This means that Aeon can't move T3 land units through water w/o a transport in the same way that every other faction can.
I know this is an edge case. But so much of this game revolves around maneuver warfare - having that option off the table does hurt.
That's true. Their primary brawler units for T1 and T2 are both amphibious but not the harb. I hadn't noticed that until now.
Mention for the Othum to have tendency to fight against clif
the test doesn't abuse the range of the units and you play a big premium for this stat in sup com
Seems like this was purely a test of firepower. Mentioning mobility or advantages and disadvantages of personal shields like great front line healing but power required should be added.
I'd say percival > brick, because both of them are mainly used against expirimentals and other T3 units and in those cases the percival scores better. Against lower tier units it's better to use the cheaper variants.
The Loyalists secondary weapon also has an EMP effect on tier 1 and tier 2 units. Also why 20,000 mass vs a Colossus? Don't GC's cost 28k mass
If you completely mass normalize, the higher tier unit will almost always lose. For instance, if you spawn in an equivalent mass of strikers against a GC, the GC will get absolutely crushed. It's not even close so I neuter the lower tier unit to see differences.
A lot of people say percivals are really good units. Where does that come from? Like how do you use the unit to be like that? Taking into consideration im a potatoe and what this vid has explored.
range and frontloaded dmg scale really well with numbers
@@tektek1100 ah so percis u want like 10+ of them, where titans can do better at the equivalent mass of under 10 kinda thing? I know the game doesnt work as rule of thumb, but yeah?
@@Freexers Yes that's the idea. In high numbers lower range units will already suffer casualties before doing any damage.
you didn't link the forum post in the description. also succboi is best you can't change my mind!
Whoops sorry about that. Which one is the "succboi" lol
@@TheDuelist the only one that succ. The t3 shotgun vacuum of faf. Da harbie
The Harb, they suck up mass
@@TheDuelist likely the colossus with the grabby hands ?
Actually its not just suck its suckandpressrobot, credit goes to me 15+ years ago when I was 7 and couldn't read the english name and just made something up.
Wtf at aeon actually being best in something
I almost fell out of my chair
@@TheDuelistShould people spammed harbingers more? Or do they have some weaknesses not reflected in the test?
@@rystiya7262 the main drawback is that you will get bullied in aeolus for playing aeon
@@rystiya7262 their main issue is that you will have trouble keeping army count up as it does not have the health to disengage from a bad fight. So if you get into a fair fight it might be the game right there.
@@BCase56 3.6k VS 4.8k buildtime. Mass is one thing, but if you have say, 27 Harbs VS 20 Percies, the Percies will probably win.
Hmm......Do any player of FAF
MAKE ANY RADAR?
Hell even T-1 will be enough
Radar is a fake unit ;)
In the real world the percie is the best
Agreed
So right
Yes, they're even classified as tech 3.5. (According to the Devs).
Othum is very bad. good at killing spam when they dont shoot the ground
Bro is wrong give the Percy’s more time and there #1