Aeon Sacrifice | Supreme Commander Science
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2022
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The thing with sacrificing SACUS: It depends on the preset mass cost. Instead of sacrificing 16 RAS presets for a GC, you're actually getting almost 4 GCs. It also isn't just a 90% mass cost for SACUs; the percentage changes depending on the energy vs mass ratio of the structure. As RAS presets make resources while they just exist, and they're pretty efficient at sacrificing, it is actually a viable, if micro intensive strategy to simply make RAS presets and sac them into GCs and T3 arty. As for engie sac, it's just way less efficient than SACU saccing so there really is very few scenarios where it makes sense, especially due to pathfinding as you've discovered.
HELLO AGAIN, LOVE WHEN I CAN WRITE LONG CORRECTING COMMENTS XDDDDDD
As you said base cost is used, and presets have different base cost SO YOU WILL NEED DIFFERENT AMOUNT OF SACUS with presets compared to naked ones.
But most important is that extra mass or power is trown away at each sacrifice.
Theoretical situation:
sacrifice multiplyer 1
target building cost 1000 mass 1000 power ( 1/ 1 ratio)
SACU1 cost = 100 mass + 900 power (1/9 ratio)
SACU2 cost = 900 mass + 100 power (9/1 ratio)
So at each sacrifice SACU1 AND SACU2 both will only add 100 mass and 100 power (so need 10 sacus of any type to make that target building)
Easy way to see how bad or how good sacrifice will be is to look at those ratios if they have equal ratio then sacrifice will be 100% efficient (excluding 0.9 penalty)
ALSO important part that sacrificing SACU1 is "OK" (800 power is trown away)
while sacrificing SACU2 is super not OK (800 mass is trown away)
Also sacus can build and shoot and walk and get dropped or be hidden and on top of that RAS sacus can give resources.... so imagine if you make 1/100th of a paragon, it is useless, but if you make sacu it is not useless.... not only you can decide to not sactifice you can change your mind and do anything else.
Also often times RAS sacu is the "SACU1" variant with about 18.5 ratio of power/mass witch is roughly equal to czar and to scatis, but will be pretty bad for paragon or yolo (tho still can do sacrifice cause even few secons earlyer para or yolo can be game-changing... so that is hard to evaluate... maybe you should have not made extra sacus... but idk... some people reclaim sacus, some sacrifice...)
5 ras sacus = GC... can stick thatinto a continental with a mobile cloak gen
can use 2 t2 transports and 4 sacus and a stealth get and a cyb t3 engy to sacrifice a ML (on dual gap)
Also seen people do same with Chicken drop with 5 sacus and sera t3 engy (on dual gap)
8 ras sacus = czar... you can make czar while still having an oppotunity to pull back and also not get scouted
naked sacus have similar ratio to nukes and antinukes so can sacrifice on those...
Whenever people troll with tele-paragon they usually already have paragon and make combatant presets cause they have similar ratio and need like 50 or so compared to 72 for RAS preset
Tele tempest is only 4.13437 ras sacus
i also remember playing canis river and making ras sacus on t2 mexes with sacrifice and just walk underwater and then assemble a GC close to enemy base... it worked and i sniped someone with that tho we still have lost cause of no t3 air LOL
Can always count on you to keep me honest. Admittedly, I was a little too shallow in looking at this mechanic.
You only need 5 RAS prebuild Sacu to tele-sac build a GC :) its much easier than 15 normal ones. Its really good on setons if you tele build 2 GC in the ponds. Ive even seen someone tele build Czar, Crtl K it and the fall damage kills ACU's hiding in the pond :D
I think saccing engineers is for when your engineer will die anyway it sacrifices into the building it was building. You don't really start a building, even a defensive one, with the intention to sac. If you are that panicked 1 you won't remember it is a possibility, and 2, pathfinding will make it too late anyway. If on the other hand your 1-3 engineers were already building one and the enemy is getting too close you can sac them just before the shells land on them and hopefully complete it.
Also on the maps you mentioned (dual gap) it can actually be a good thing even against higher skilled players, because 1 or even 2 arties are not going to get through a shield if the player is prepared for it. A tele-GC is less expected and can do more damage quicker.
Went to comment that SACU cost is calculated using template values, so if there are “built-in” upgrades, they count too.
But other commenters explained this bit in greater detail, disregard this.
I’m a bit surprised you haven’t heard about “5 telesacu colossus” meme (sometimes even seen on Setons!), as you are much more experienced than me. Probably I’m one of these “clowns”, and play with likeminded people :P that’s the reason.
It’s amazing that FAF community is tightly knit, yet the game itself provides a cornucopia of methods to extract fun! (and annoy teammates/opponents)
The preset have a bigger mass in them so ras preset or rambo preset if you swim in mass are more suited if you want to do that strategy. and whit adjacency you can create mass out of thin air technically but it's still more efficient to build ras if you want to go that route
I would have imagined that the best use case would be recovering quickly from your power getting raided.
Aside from the panic building of defensive structures.
im not sure if im 100% correct but the sacu sacrifice to a t3 shield gen power cost is lower so maybe they can be effective to build t3 shield gens
you could probably attack with rambo sacu then sacrifice into a t1pgen to deny any reclaim or maybe a t2 pd/ t3 shield gen to get that bit of extra use..
i guess the viability is probably low but you could also use it to surprise build a nuke launcher i think that's maybe the most cost effective option given the high power cost of a nuke launcher
again low viability but you can transport the sacu closer then where you could build a gc not sure if the time saved makes up for the cost or the risk
or to rush build a shielded t2 art base
im not sure if you can use them on allied projects but using as build power lategame then sacrificing on a team gameender could be a viable strat
Is it possible to load nuke or smd with sacrifice?
Honeslty it reminds me of stuff like BB-CVs from WW2, if you making them you have more problems.
Is there a supcom science video in the works about counter-intelligence (cloaking/jamming/stealth)? It seems like a neat part of the game that nobody's really covered and can be especially mean when Cybran do something cheeky like hide a nuke launcher under a stealth shield in a back map corner.
I'm totally not a UEF player who loves Sparkys and Thunderheads and got stealth nuked once. Totally...
czcams.com/video/wnsZPF1yhgQ/video.html mine
czcams.com/video/A05U1jlRIJU/video.html shorter but older by heaven
On the GC thing, it's not just a meme if you use transports instead of teleport. Teleport is super unrealistic economically to reasonably get. sacrafice is cheap and if oyu have 5 SCUs and 2 T2 transports or a continental you can very reasonably sneak 5 SCUs close to an enemy base, sacrafice build the GC and it is a legitimately good strategy because the surprise factor is huge. Also you misrepresented sac building the GC. the Sacrifice mass is based off the units original mass cost. it's only 5 RAS scus to build a GC. you used base model SCUs which makes it look like you need 15ish to get a GC built. why didn't you reach out to me before making this one? :P
Sometimes late game, when I have sufficient SACU's, I like that I can sacrifice my Engies just to get rid of them... Better than ctrl-k and reclaiming.
Off topic, but does FAF include any form of skill ranking decay yet? I used to play heavily many years ago when the community was smaller and overall skill levels were lower. I played seriously and hit a fairly decent rank. But the last time I tried coming back to the game a couple years ago, I was so incredibly rusty that my rating was easily three times what it should have been. Lost every game embarrassingly badly. People said to just play normally and the rank would fix itself, but it was dropping way too slowly. I don't want to effectively have to throw three dozen games in order to fix it. ._.
Don't believe so. That would be rough to be like a 1k on ladder, take a few years off and come back a 500. My two cents is that you'll remember all your build orders and tricks before the rating system adjusts. I also don't put a ton of stock in rating anyway (because I'm a filthy casual :)... As long as you're having fun, that's all that matters in my book.
I thought it takes 5 sacuz to build GC
T2 pd costs 400 mass and you need 4 t3 engis that cost 300 mass each to finish it? No doubt everyone deems it useless
You can try to sac build a paragon but the game uses the energy cost of the rascoms instead of the mass cost.
Your comment doesn't make sense. Are you saying the game uses the mass of the Sacu verses the Energy cost of the Paragon? Are you pointing to a rascom specific bug?
I find if you have that many rascoms, it's better to just _build_ the paragon.
@@jarrod752 the game takes into account both mass and energy when sacrificing. So if the mass/energy cost ratio of the unit being sacrificed is different from the thing being built the game uses the worse of the 2 ratios to figure out how much to advance construction by.
@@chainingsolid Ouch, that should totally be in this video.