Best Voltage for VTX Voltage Regulator and Why // Voltage Regulator FPV Noise
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
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I read in an electronics forum that for the cleanest voltage step down you can use the switching regulator to drop down the voltage to slightly above what you want then use a linear regulator to drop it down to what you need(so it does not over heat) and then add a capacitor to clean out the rest. Very interesting video. Great job. !
By far my favourite channel right now. Keep up the good work! What you're doing is awesome for the community. Thanks man.
This makes so much sense, i was wondering why my video was still noisy after i added a voltage regulator. Thank you for this
I've just received my different capacitors. Absolutely timely! Thanks for another lesson!!!
Best reg's! Thanks for explanation!
I use them alot for all kind of stuff, FPV cam/VTX, extension cord to power my goggles from 3/4s LiPo's, Handy charging from LiPo's and the list continues, very very useful little helpers :)
Great stuff man. Also explain the why, not just the what. I always want to know why I should do something. You do exactly that, showing it with measurements and all. Now I’ve actually learned something! Again, great stuff keep it up!
If you want to analyse ripple on DC sources you need to set the DSO for AC coupling. The way you have it now with DC coupling, every time the voltage into the DSO changes significantly the trace moves and you loose trigger. The other factor at play here is you only have a limited range of DC offset to bring the trace into the middle of the screen as well as limiting the usable sensitivity.
AC coupling eliminates all these issues since the DC component of the signal is blocked by a series capacitor at the input of the DSO. Now when you change input voltages significantly the the DSO maintains a centralised trace maintains trigger and you now have the full range of sensitivities available on the DSO.
You mention the frequency of the regulator changing with different input and output voltages. This is wrong. The regulator will be configured to run at a single and hopefully optimum frequency if the board maker did his homework, the reg chip is in fact internally clocked to a fixed switching frequency. The reg chip modulates the duty cycle to maintain the output voltage.
Lastly all of this testing is rather inconclusive since most VTX's have onboard switching reg which will be effected in a similar fashion as you describe for the D-Sun reg.
Right.. I was thinking hey this guy has stuff mixed up here... Also no point in having a large capacitor anywhere after a circuit that has already managed voltage levels.. The only place a big cap would serve its intended purpose is on the input side coming from the battery to catch a voltage spike aka powering up or connecting the battery.. Its far to big to deal with fast switching rates.. For that you would need a small cap lets say 0.1uf..
Probably the best thing to do although ive not tried it, would be to run a linear regulator right after the switching one but have the switching reg output about a volt higher than the value of the linear so it works correctly.. Not much heat to burn off and a far better stable voltage I would imagine..
Nice explanation! I ordered that regulator after watching on of your build vids. I'll be using it on my next build. Thanks man!
Awesome analysis. And... Yes please. Show us more of this stuff do we can solve issues.
Dude this is just as good as bardwells stuff. Keep it up
The more I read into the CMOS sensor supplier's manual, the more I am convinced that the camera itself is the source of the noise. If you can look up "charge-pump" in the pdf file I mentioned, the charge-pump in the camera is actually an oscillator in the 300k Hz range that you see in the oscilloscope. If you don't supply that 8.3Volt that the camera wants, it will use its built-in, low-grade, remedial regulator to generate the 8.3 Volt. And that is the source of the noise.
I loved this! Learned lots and reinforced my knowledge on capacitors and voltage regulators.
Really nice work, man. Really well explained! And happy new year! Have an AWESOME 2018! :D
this is extremely helpful so...yes you should continue stuff like this...thanks
Keep up the great work! I've learned alot, watching your vudeos. ✌
Is there a diagram of some sort to show us what is your preferred setup to lower the noise? where each thing is connected, including BECs and capacitors. would love seeing that.
Thanks, great video as always!
That was really awesome one! The only thing you didn't do you tease was show us 8.4V step down on regulator + cap noise. Definitely more vids like these please. I get old JB videos vibe from these but on more technical level.
Sure i have more coming like this with coils smd caps and other stuff.
2ed time watching through this. Fascinating. Can you do a vid on how to use an Oscilloscope.
You Are so god thanks I cant wait to solder it on and the cap but this adapter is going on the lipo end vtx in the middel
Nice to know that the buck converter oscillates at 300k Hz. This frequency is over the spec for the panasonic and most of the other electrolyte capacitors because the capacitor is a double layer sheet coiled up in the aluminum can. It is a capacitor for audio applications less than 100k Hz. At 300k Hz, it behaves like half inductor half capacitor. That is why 470uF and 1000uF behaves almost the same. The capacitance is half way killed off.
What do you recommend to use for these frequencies?
You’ve officially made it, you got a “hater” who downvoted this great video 😂 keep up the good work!
Nice osc scope you got there very helpful vid.
Like your humor best of all like shorts and soldering
Really great info, thanks man!😀👍
Great video mate.
Dronemesh. try a linear voltage regulator. LM317(adjustable) or 7808 fixxed. I know they heat up but just scope out the output voltage level. ☺
Great video, learned something new today... QQ though: I'm using a TBS UnifyPro VTx that takes 5v only, so I'm using a 5V step-down Vreg, in this case, I'm guessing I'll be getting lines no matter what I do...
I’ve been working with Matek on a solution to their Matek VTX giving me “noisy” video as well. After watching this video I ordered a few voltage converters. I plan on running this same experiment - I’m hopeful it’ll work. Thanks for the info.
+Daniel Hubert Great keep me updated.
Well I got the voltage regulator in and adjusted it to output 8.4V. I soldered on a 330uF low ESR cap to the output pads as well and then wired up my VTX. The VTX was now powered from batt voltage (4S)... I actually had MORE noise in my video feed than just using the 10V rail on the Matek FCHUB. Definitely didn't meet expectations LOL
Cool stuff. Keep it up.👍
I know this is a very old series, but I'm watching the playlist is very very interesting, thanks for all the work you put into it. I'd love to know what you think of the Apex Voltage Regulator board, which has a "cascading" regulator (a switching regulator AND a linear regulator after it)
Great Info! Thanks!
I like that vtx, it gives like 900mw at A1 in 600mw setting. And it doesn't really heat up
I learned something about regulators and caps 😆 BTW 17:34 party on your oscilloscope 😂
change the capacitor you used for a ceramic and see what happens, you can also use both at the same time, I'm doing that on my ZVS driver circuit to have a big tank capacitor on the input and also the ceramic right on the leads of the big capacitor to give all the high frequency noise a low esr path to ground and I know from experience that it helps.
electrolytic capacitors are only good for filtering out frequencies up to 100kHz, above that you need to use ceramics or tantalum capacitors... the latter is even better for your application because ceramics are susceptible to vibrations and can work like a microphone which is bad because it induces even more noise.
Imensly helpful. Thank you.
Pretty good video , That " Ripple " looks awfull , The addition of the smoothing capacitor really helps smooth the waveform , This is the trouble with switching supplies they can be very noisey , I've also used positive linear regulators in some of my builds , The standard 7808 or 7805 etc , Only trouble is heatsinking the regulator .
I think i learned something today lol👍👍
And it wasn't even from Joshua Bardwell. ;-)
Love your videos but never hear you mention safely discharging capacitors...no shocks or risk to other electronics with these?
Thanks, Bro!
Have you tried to set it to let say 7.5v and run a lm7805 linear regulator after to cut the noise. Do you think is worth trying maby?
great help for me thanks
could you try a chad nowak suggestion of using a switching bec to lower voltage to 6v then a linear bec to lower it to 5v, supposedly the linear one is cleaner but is now losing less power to waste heat.
I’m running the dys f4 aio with 30 amp esc’s. I have this same voltage regulator and I do have some noise. To be clear... you recommend a capacitor before and after the voltage regulator?
I know the vtx won't run off it but I wonder if 4.2 V would be even better. I don't have a scope to test but If so we could be on to something. Hopefully you see where i am going with this.
So its better to put the CAP at the VTX, rather than at the battery input or both?
If you use a 12V regulator to supply power to the FPV camera, does it mean that you can get a clearer image than a 5V supply, although it is inferior to supplying 8.4V?
How will the preform if I want to power my vtx directly from my 2s lipo but use this and set the output to constant 7.2 volts .
Thanks teacher 😎
Gotta get one of those
I'm making the jump to 6s. Do you think you could test this on a 6 cell setup? Do you think it would be half of fully charge voltage like it is with 4s?
Hey im about to spend like 300 on a new setup im looking to get frsky original qx7 or jumper t8sg having originally used flysky looking for upgrade which would u say is best. Also should i build my own with 200$ or do u think theres a decent bnf which do u think would be my best choice if i build do u like eachine stack or do u recommend a good aio fc or maybe a parts build for about 200$ i cant really spend more than 300 on quad n tx
Hey man, is a buck converter, step down regulator different from a LC Filter?
What do I do if I have a VTX that supports 5V only (like TBS Unify)?
But now I’m wondering what’s the difference between an expensive Pololu 9V 2.3A step-down regulator for $9,95 and this cheap adjustable step down regulator for about $0,70. Except for the higher Amp rating, would you notice a performance difference?
Would it be good to add maybe 330uf cap across the 5v/7v/9v/12v output, whatever the PDB is providing for your video?
I've considered doing this before. Commonly we build our quads and place a 470 or 1000 cap on the battery power or ESCs. This helps to reduce voltage spikes and noise at the battery source. It's not really doing anything for the VTX/Cam if we are using a regulated pad.
Do you have any recommendations for a regulator compatible for a 6s?
You know I almost feel like I need to buy an oscilloscope too. Alot of noise issues could be troubleshot with having access to one.
Great explanation.👏 Maybe its just coincidence but 8.4v is exactly half 16.8v which makes perfect sense why there is less fluctuations. 🤔 Maybe you could let us know if this is still true for higher input voltages, like 5s and HV lipos. Thanks.
Trystan Great insight I will definitely be making and update video to look into it.
Yes please, test 5s also, great video
Hey can you link where I can buy the capacitors and regulators in this video ?
Probably coincidence because analog circuitry after VTX "feel" itself good with voltages slightly over 7V.
Nice video thanks
The frequency is fixed, I think. The scope image is timebased, and from what I am seeing the frequency looks fixed. The readout may be fluctuating a bit, because of triggering accuracy. Why not start with looking on the step down ic for the identification, google for a datasheet, and read the datasheet? It probably has a lot of relevant information about frequency and noise. and about this static setup ... even the lights in your lab can introduce a lot of noise into the received video signal. I do applaud your efforts, but I think this test is very specific to your setup, and the surroundings under which you test. It does give some ideas on how to clean up your signal, but I don't think you can draw conclussions, or generalize for everybody's specific setup. I am just a hobyist, recently got into fpv. But maybe a real electonics engineer can pipe in on the matter?
NICE!!!
Could you also look at what happens on voltage spikes of 35V. These regulators only support up to 23V I’m just curious what happens if you spike it shortly. I’ve been using Pololu buck converters and they are certified for up to 40V, but also bloody expensive.
Yes will do
why dont use a simple sereies regulator instead of those fancy switching stuff?
you only need to add a low esr capacitor in between the 5 volt regulator and your camera and you completely get rid of all the noise, also it's not really good to have a big difference in input voltage and output voltage because the buck converter will only eat up the overvoltage and produce heat to give you your regulated 5 volt output... did you know that even the place where you put a capacitor makes a big difference?
You can also choose to use a dedicated battery just for your camera, that will eliminate every noise because you isolate your camera from the rest...
Maybe it's a good idea to have a battery just for powering your esc's with your motors and use a different battery to make a 5 volt dc bus or whatever you need to run all your other stuff.
I just use an LC filter to feed my Flight Controller clean power, then a Linear 12v regulator to drop down from 4S for my VTXs..Runcam Cameras will take a 4S, my 1280mhz vtxs wont.
You might be onto something. Will try what you are suggesting i think will help with twitching and death flips when the batteries are low. I have some packs that I cannot discharge to 3.3v/cell bc fc resets at sudden stick changes. And I am not a hater or anything but this video of Dronemesh shows how to clean a wave generator signal for 20 min. Didn't hear a motor rev up once the whole video. Not exactly the powerful noise I am getting on my fpv.
Hey, did you ever try an LC capacitor in your setup?
I have separate video on LC filters, Coils and other things I have been playing around with.
Oh cool! I meant LC filter. I'm new to this and trying to learn how to get the best video so thanks for all of your awesome content!!!
Is it ok to power the fc 5v input with 8.4v too? More power wasted as heat?
nathan tan, no 5V in is what it says.
hi
can use those Voltage regulator for my Flight controller ?
i stopped my build because i dont have a room for standerd Pdb ?
i use hypperlight flostyle with teko32 and Matek std but its take just 5v and teko32 has VCC output ?
Yes
Drone Mesh thank you, i have seen your video about matek vtx hv , and i have seen on the site matekSYS is he can give 5v for the FC either ..
and i have the chance in my build i got this vtx .. !!
Is there any problem to give fc with 5v frome this vtx ?
Drone mesh I have the star f3 will the racerstar 2700kv work with it and do u no what props will be the best to go with them
Nathan Richardson dalprop cyclone 504X
I run dal 5040 v2 on everything, durable and lower amp draw for longer flights than more aggressive props. I don't race tho, just rip around the house, trees and such. If you re racing 5050 or 5046 might be your cup of tea.
And the capacitor should go onto battery leads, not after the step-down regulator, right?
Throttle Nerd In this case after the Bec. It'll work better there as the Bec has cut the voltage down but still has that ripple. The cap will clean it right up.
Sickocrow Hmmm what if, say, 35V 400-600uF on battery leads for overall cleaning/protection and 25V 100-200uF after the video BEC?
Fix some tiny hawk boards
How do you know the position of the knob on the regulator to output 8.4v without a voltage meter?
+Andrei You can't you need multimeter.
But couldn't you take a screenshot on the position of the knob when it shows 8.4v? They should all be the same, no?
No, these variable resistors do not just turn 360 degrees. You can spin them many times.
Brundle Fly ah i see. They spin to infinity. Thanks!
Great content, please less repetition, this could have been a nice snacky 10mins vid
Yea im trying to perfect it this was very difficult to try to explain as easy as possible I have more coming which i will try to summarize and keep as small as possible.
What???
You have a battery that has a varying voltage, *two* switch-mode regulators, and a few ldos in that vtx power chain.
Stop messing with voltages, go high not low as higher voltages mean less current, thus higher efficiency. The smps also switches in shorter pulses which are easier to filter with capacitors or l/c filters. Use batteries of 2-4 paralel 1 and 10μF ceramic capacitors (smd) and be done with interference the right way.
Are you sure the ripple comes from the voltage regular, and not from the camera itself? Why is 8.3 Volt so magical across the board even across different brands of voltage regulators?I looked up the CMOS sensor supplier's manual for camera makers, www.hamamatsu.com/resources/pdf/ssd/e05_handbook_image_sensors.pdf , and it says that "a typical CMOS image sensor"... "To achieve wide dynamic range, voltage that exceeds 5V is used". But how does the camera get over 6V, or 7V, or 8V supply when you give it a 5V or 12V power input? It generates the voltage by a built-in tiny oscillator buck converter in the smallest space possible. So, maybe 8.3 Volt is what the camera "naturally" needs, and if you give it the 8.3V, it turns off its low performance tiny buck oscillator that is the real source of the noise?
I got a better regulator. No noise. I'll post a video when I get my vtx replacement
we are still waiting :p
Did they burn their vtx and then the replacement vtx and then figured that it is not a 'better' regulator after all.
Thanks about idea about 8.4V voltage. Fixed a quad with damaged 5V BEC on FC which became unusable for camera and VTX. It now have usable FPV video again. Like this czcams.com/video/Mcl2dtXm50Q/video.html - description is under video.
8,36 V noise gone !!