Generation War: The German as the Victim of WWII?
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2019
- Everyone is familiar with the Band of Brothers, Saving Private Ryans and Inglorious Basterds of the world by now. However, there are some very worthwhile series about the Second World War not made by Hollywood that are still very much worth watching.
Generation War (known as Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter in Germany) is a unique twist to the usual WWII tale in that it follows the war from the perspective of five German friends, two of which are even soldiers themselves. Though this might seem like the premise of an unsympathetic and uncharacteristic story for some, it is in fact a surprisingly well-made and gripping story to follow in which sympathy for the German people, usually so abhorred in WWII media, can actually be found. In this video, I give a short review about the series before diving deep into the history behind the story that's being told in Generation War. Among other things, I will look into its historicity and the claims it makes in its storytelling, as well as controversies that arose following its international release.
If you would like to learn more about the mentality of the German soldiers and the Clean Wehrmacht Myth that often accompanies such a discussion, I recommend you check out my video on the Clean Wehrmacht Myth here: • The Complicated Histor...
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#History #GenerationWar #WorldWar2
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Germany: We also suffered negative experiences from the war. Not everyone was a psychopathic killer and a war criminal.
Japan: What war crimes?
Japan: *Writing history books*
Japan: "I'm gonna do what's called a pro gamer move."
Correct but isnt Japan forgiven already?
@@Oline1756 Not by China
Do some homework other than reading CZcams comments. No modern educational/political entity in Japan denies war crimes. Tensions arise when Korea tries to blackmail Japan every time they have a political crisis, but nobody denies crimes. You're just spreading bullshit.
justsomedude69 spotted the weeb
"Be back before Christmas" said everyone ever
And it's so dumb too. Winter time is not a feasible time to end a war
@@mgway4661 Not entirely true. Depending on where the fighting takes place, usually all operations end a bit before Christmas. During December - February there are precious few combat operations. This gives generals and rulers time to reflect on their current standing and could, in theory, notice the vast superiority of the enemy position and sue for peace. The problem is, that's not the nature of modern war. Modern war is vast and lively, then a stalemate, then one side breaks the stalemate and the war is over before anyone can catch their breath
@@jynexe3056 a lot of modern war, (1990's +) is not equal sides fighting. It seems it's a large nation fighting a poor nation, ir fighting militia groups which have only the knowledge of the area as an advantage.
@@joshjbradburn Modern war, yes. I guess I was channeling my inner Indy and thinking of, what at the time, was modern war (so like 1914-1945ish), what we would now think of as "Early 20th century war"
Though there were still blitzes, obviously, it would result in a stalemate later. Like with Germany and france, britian was the later stalemate.
Back when Santa was green.
My stepfathers father married a German woman he met during the latter days of WW2. Her name was Meta. I first met her when I was 10yo. She was the sweetest lady you ever met. She had lost her entire family, aside from her older brother (who was at the Eastern Front), during an air raid. As my mum lived through the Coventry Blitz, I had been fascinated by "the war" since being a small child. Naturally, I was curious to hear the "other side."
One night, Nanna told me her story.
Meta's father had won the Iron Cross in WW1. He had returned to a stricken and impoverished country, and Nanna had grown up in severe poverty, despite being from a reasonably wealthy family- a familiar story. She was 8 when Hitler came to power. Her father initially welcomed this, as did many veterans who felt nothing but contempt for the weak and inefficient Weimar Republic. However, he did not join the Party and became sickened by the increasing anti-semitism, but,as was the case for many Germans, it was too late to act.
Fast forward to 1941. "Heiny" was as proud as punch in his spanking new Wermacht greys. He was no Nazi (to their credit, none of her family chose to join- though of course Heiny was Hitler Youth and Nanna was in the BDM.)
His first tour was during the astonishing advance into Russia, and he came home on leave full of stories of victory after victory. It was during his second tour that something changed. He came home sullen, and drunk, and was a different man. He kept saying that he had "seen things", but would say no more. His father left him alone, understanding what war can do. His third tour was his last- he died on the Eastern Front.
Now, the shocking and horrifying part. After the war, via a surviving comrade, Nanna, discovered that Heiny had been drafted to assist the Einsatzgruppen. Although initially belligerent, indeed almost facing a firing squad himself, he had been coerced by subtle threats and then by the news of the death of his family. War brutalises the best and empowers the worse of humanity. Nanna never forgave him, but she prayed for his soul every day till she died.
She never understood how Germans could act that way, and upon moving to England in 1950 never returned to Germany. My point in sharing this is that many, many people did many, many bad things during this time, and we will no doubt never really know the full truth of it all.
Thank you for sharing this. It is a shame that these memories will get buried within and among countless comments though.
The story you have written down here is among one of the most important lessons we can learn from history. How do we as individual humans avoid making these same mistakes when faced with overwhelming pressure from a government or society that insists that we commit these types of acts? What is the correct course of action when an individual is faced with the prospect that our country is in the wrong?
It may seem logical that we may as well risk our lives in order to do the right thing, because it is better to do so than risk our lives to support an immoral war effort, but obviously from the countless stories we see from this period, it isn't quite that simple in the moment. Continued effort and self-reflection for generations to come based on these lessons may be our only remedy to prevent this scale of atrocities again.
At the last day at the judgement day every secret will be disclosed
My father was 13 years old and ice skating with a friend on a frozen lake in a small German town in February 1945. A British fighter pilot saw them and tried to kill them. Luckily they were able to hide behind a tree. They could see into his eyes. He knew they were kids. That’s how war brutalises people.
@@peterl5804 imagine being a child who knows nothing of the suffering endured by the British in their own country, wondering why a man you never met and never did anything to wants you dead.
Imagine being a British airman, losing comrades, neighbors, maybe even losing family to the Blitz, and thinking that you have just enough bullets to make some German soldier somewhere feel your pain.
War makes men mad.
The series does not portray Germans as victims as the title suggests. It shows that in war people suffer and do bad things.
Exactly. The series is good, it actually doesn't support the clean Wehrmacht myth as it literally shows them murdering Jews (regular Wehrmacht did assist in the Holocaust, not just SS), marching POWs through minefields etc.
Friedhelm in the end basically commits suicide by running in front of the Soviets because he cannot live with himself anymore, and also to show the brainwashed Hitlerjugend that fighting on is pointless.
@@nikolakaravida4087 He even says to his brother i believe whats the point god has abondend us
@CallmehMug of course. because you cant blame every goddamn soldier for every war crime and act of atrocity committed in wars.
do you blame every american for committing genocide on the natives, do you blame every white american for black slavery? how about every descendant of the romans for their merciless conquest?
or every french person for napoleon?
the truth is that soldiers are just doing what they told too. they are grunts. following orders or getting shot was the rule of thumb in nazi germany.
How many German know about this? The school teach you about this?
Germans should know：
In Russia you could steal , rape and murder without any punishment , because of the Führerbefehl . He told us , that most soldiers wouldn't have done it normally , but they almost did never anything against these crimes , and sometimes they helped or even joined , because of peer pressure . Some commanders forbade their soldiers to rape and kill civilians , but the only thing they could do was to put these soldiers into other units
The Full stoey is here：
According to user @Heinisauerkraut said: My Grandpa was a military pastor with a rank of a major in the German Wehrmacht . Then | was a young boy ( about 1980 , I was 10 ) he took me and my older brother hiking , because he mapped wild graves of unknown soldiers who were fallen in the last days of the war , mostly from strafing fighter planes . He organized that they were put in proper graves in local graveyards and was later honored for this work . There he told us many stories about the war , especially in the east . Until almost the end of the war he had no own front line experience , but many soldiers came to him to confess their own experience to get some relive from the horrible things they saw or did . It took some years to really understand the things he told us . He told us , that the main difference between the campaign in France was , that you were at risk to get court martialled and shot if you stole only a chicken . In Russia you could steal , rape and murder without any punishment , because of the Führerbefehl . He told us , that most soldiers wouldn't have done it normally , but they almost did never anything against these crimes , and sometimes they helped or even joined , because of peer pressure . Some commanders forbade their soldiers to rape and kill civilians , but the only thing they could do was to put these soldiers into other units . And even the commanders who acted against rapes and murders , allowed or even encouraged to confiscate any food from the civilian population , so that they were condemned to starve to death . The result was almost the same in the end . He told us , which is now in accordance to my own experience , that were are only a few people are really evil , but on the other side there are also only a few people morally good . Most people are opportunists , and they act according to the circumstances , and if the circumstances allowing to do otherwise socially unacceptable acts , they will do it , if they get an advantage from that . So my Grandpa really know about the crimes on the eastern front , and because of that he tried not to get in soviet captivity . 1945 he was on leave at home south of Frankfurt , then he decided to dessert and hide in the woods . A thing he only told his children and later his grandchildren , and did not even write in his own memoirs . That is telling something about the German mindset , even long after the war . It was counted as more shameful to desert your unit , than to obey orders from a criminal regime . The military police told my grandmother , that if he returns he wont be shot , and in the end the pressure on was to high , and he surrendered two weeks before the Americans occupied his viage . He was court martialled ,degraded to the lowest rank and put into a penal battalion . His unit stand against the " Russians " in the area around Berlin . The Russians used loud speakers to demand the surrender , and after that someone in the unit shot the commanding officer , and the whole unit surrendered without a fight . My Grandpa was at this time quite sick from his time in the woods , and then they were inspected by a soviet female doctor , she asked him if he has children . He answered correctly that he has 8 children and showed photos of them . After that he got his release papers , and was allowed to go home . So in a lucky twist of fate , he survived his short time as soviet POW . If he were captured as military pastor in a rank of major , his fate would have been for sure much darker . I am very thankful for that experience with my grandfather . But even for me , it took some time , to remember the stories of my grandpa , then in the late 80's the discussion about the crimes of the Wehrmacht came up . This was the first time realized the full weight of the information in my head . Maybe it was so convenient to blame the SS and other nazi party organisations for all the bad things happened in the war
@Deus Vult It's a bad comparison due to sheer scale of male German population that served in the army. There was nowhere as much Americans in Vietnam. Additionally civilians in USA were very vocal and against that war. So no find another argument. This one falls short.
Clint Eastwood is probably the only Hollywood director who dared to humanize the Japanese when he directed, Letters From Iwo Jima.
@Cheryl citation needed
@Cheryl From what I have heard and read the, "starving hundreds of thousands of prisoners to death" part of your statement is nothing more than a conspiracy theory.
@CherylBullcrap, classic revisionist history!
@ Yes, and a single book written by a guy who faced mass criticism from other Academics for his exagerrations, no shit people died in POW camps, people die everywhere, the number he gave is completely bullshit, the ACTUAL figure is like ~1% of the German POW under US control died, which is really not that worrying in my opinion.
Cheryl Mr Bacque is a novelist. Not a historian. Most academics including Germans, Americans, French, or British have disproved his theories.
i am 100% sure this and band of brothers take place in the same cinematic universe
@Steve Campbell nice, now i want this type of show but from more prospective from more countrys
Steve Campbell where can you watch
Robby Robrob x
ქართველი ხარ ??
ქართველი ხარ
Sometimes when my grandfather had a few beers in him he would tell me about his surprise the first time he saw a dead American. One of his comrades said hey you want to see a dead American? When my grandfather took a look, he was shocked that the American soldier looked like so much like an innocent boy not at all like the propaganda had depicted, his voice would break and his eyes would be wet with tears when he told me this story. Later my grandfather was captured by the Americans, and spent the rest of the war as a POW. He had a brother who also fought in the war but who was killed, I asked him if he had ever been to his grave, my grandfather told me that there would be no point, because there is no specific grave he could visit with his name on it, and that his brother was in a mass grave piled up with a ton of other bodies.
Rip
I feel you. My grandpa was a B-17 pilot who bombed German cities over 26 missions. He saw his fellow B-17's get shot down. But he never "hated" the Germans. As his grandson, i only despise the SS and Gestapo. They can go jump off a cliff. But the regular old German soldier i can respect. Same with the Luftwaffe pilots. As long as they weren't anti-jew. He even wrote how he saw your ME-262's during his bombing mission over Berlin. He was like, "WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT?"
Honestly, you're lucky that you have at least someone that actually wants to talk it. The only living relative I could talk about it with is my greatgrandmother which was born in 1929, and she entirely blocks it out due to it being so terrifying to even think about what she experienced. All she really talked about was how the Saar area which we live in was reattached to the Reich and how happy she was that all the bombing etc. finally ended when the americans arrived here.
@@chrisiooo my grandfather was born the same year, but too i'm afraid to ask him about the time. i would like too, but he never talked about the time voluntarily so i don't want to push him. he never saw action though, but it was obviously a rough time for the civilians as well. my great grandfather served, but he died before i was born so i could never meet him or ask him. sometimes i wish i could have been born earlier to know more men who served. but i'd be reluctant to ask such things even if i knew more men. i probably should, because men like my grandfather or actual soldiers are becoming fewer and fewer.
@@colinm8200
Well as a dutchy the normal german soldier did there part as well, the 13 of putten as we call them in them in the netherlands where murdered by the normal german soldier and not by the gestapo or ss.
So the narritive that most germans are victim of times is not that accepted.
When the protagonist from both Band Of Brothers and Generation War is named Winter.
There is a Winter in Band of Brothers and a Winter in Generation War
Winters* and Winter
and in the old war films, it was Steiner!
It’s funny how hitler wasn’t German and Stalin wasn’t Russian
IKR hahahahaha
In the Soviet Union, national heritage didn't matter much. Their state was based on the notion of one people and one state without individual national identity. Stalin's rise was due purely to his elimination of all of his equal peers and rivals though. Hitler's ideology was not necessarily just about the Germans in Germany, but about a Pan-Germanic nation where all Germanic peoples would live in one state and be the masters of their neighbors. Though Hitler was Austrian, Austrians are ethnically and linguistically German and due to the politics of the 19th century, stood aside from the unification of the rest of the German states.
DMC12Gauge wow . That makes a lot of sense .
@@DarkFilmDirector you say that but Stalin changed his name to that to hide his ancestry, remember he was in the picture before the Soviet Union even properly existed
Napoleon wasn't French
I honestly think that Wilhelm is a very relatable character: he goes from an idealistic soldier who believes firmly in his mission to a disillusioned and disgraced man when he witnesses what war can turn a man into.
For me its friedhelm. Friedhelm for me is what would happen if we bring person with 21st century mindset into world war 2 era. He is a 21st century person born in a wrong era.
He was exposed to the most extreme and went for the extreme choices like executing children, massacring women etc. His transformation from Innocent little brother with an anti-war attitude into a Ruthless sociopathic killing machine with no regards to humanity is actually terrifying depiction of Lost innocence.
"You want to survive? You resist the temptation of Humanity" -Friedhelm
both of the brothers character are very much realistic and relatable.loved the whole series so much
The Truth and the Lie meet one day. The Lie says to the Truth: “It’s a marvellous day today”! The Truth looks up to the skies and sighs, for the day was really beautiful.
They spend a lot of time together, ultimately arriving beside a well. The Lie tells the Truth: “The water is very nice, let’s take a bath together!” The Truth, once again suspicious, tests the water and discovers that it indeed is very nice. They undress and start bathing. Suddenly, the Lie comes out of the water, puts on the clothes of the Truth and runs away. The furious Truth comes out of the well and runs everywhere to find the Lie and to get her clothes back. The World, seeing the Truth naked, turns its gaze away, with contempt and rage.
The poor Truth returns to the well and disappears forever, hiding therein, its shame. Since then, the Lie travels around the world, dressed as the Truth, satisfying the needs of society, because, the World, in any case, harbours no wish at all to meet the naked Truth.
@Kaiser Willhelm II "In absence of Sources, just put a Name under it which fits into the thematic"
Hans Rudel
I can't relate to him at all
The Truth and the Lie meet one day. The Lie says to the Truth: “It’s a marvellous day today”! The Truth looks up to the skies and sighs, for the day was really beautiful.
They spend a lot of time together, ultimately arriving beside a well. The Lie tells the Truth: “The water is very nice, let’s take a bath together!” The Truth, once again suspicious, tests the water and discovers that it indeed is very nice. They undress and start bathing. Suddenly, the Lie comes out of the water, puts on the clothes of the Truth and runs away. The furious Truth comes out of the well and runs everywhere to find the Lie and to get her clothes back. The World, seeing the Truth naked, turns its gaze away, with contempt and rage.
The poor Truth returns to the well and disappears forever, hiding therein, its shame. Since then, the Lie travels around the world, dressed as the Truth, satisfying the needs of society, because, the World, in any case, harbours no wish at all to meet the naked Truth.
nicely put
Where did you get this? It is so beautful and true.
@@armandoeng its a 19th century legend.
Wow, deep thoughts.
Do we have an author for this?
This is exceptional mythos, played to reality.
Great, *now where’s my Italian Saving Private Marco*
Its called Cpt Corelli's mandoline 😂
Italians were French on the Axis side...
Band of Super Mario Bros.
This show didn't portray the German as the victim. It just humanized them. They weren't just faceless, nameless evil Stormtroopers who killed everything in sight without feeling. There was complexities to every person and every situation. Each person had their own background and story during the war. Some were psycho killing machines, some were barberous war criminals, some were drafted and just doing what they had to, some were patriotic, some didn't even want to be there, etc, etc. Not everyone believed in the Nazi party or Hitler or the war. And some were total fanatics. This show humanizes different kinds of people, and it's bullshit that people took that as trying to make them look a certain way or praising Nazis or something. Every side committed war crimes, don't forget that. My great grandfather and his brother joined the Wehrmacht before the war as a 300year family tradition of military service. They were actually on the front line in Russia and later France and Belgium the entire war, one as a machine gunner an the other a tanker and actually both survived the entire war. They only got 8 days of leave the entire war, and that was just in the rear not back home. They didn't actually know anything about the Holocaust until the war was over and they went home and people told them about it. So I'm not seeing the missing opportunity or having to paint everything Nazi that you talk about. That series was perfect. They could've added more, but it was only like...3 episodes so yeah.
lovefrompraha I’m curious, have you joined the German Army to continue your families tradition? Not gonna judge you if you haven’t or are not going to just curious if your family has kept the tradition or if it stopped after WW2.
@@antonyd6649 lol no. I was actually first in my family not to. I joined US army when I moved here. (They weren't happy lol)
lovefrompraha Oh haha at least its some form of military.
@@lovefrompraha at least you didn't joined the Foreign Legion, then your relatives would be *REALLY* pissed on you hahaha
@Knight who says Ni lol was 25th as a grunt. Then AZ guard as a grunt. Then 3ID as a tank mechanic. I kinda wanna go PJ for the air Force reserves but I might just get out
I don't think Friedhelm becomes a "ruthless killer". You can see he hates what he's doing, he hates himself for it and the world for turning him into this.
I wouldn't say so either. It doesn't take long for a person to change drastically when they encounter violence and death on a constant basis, as many people who have experienced war or something similar explain. Friedhelm becomes desensitized and despondent, and, consequently, falls into the role he always despised--the soldier who listens to orders to the tee and follows them effortlessly, without showing remorse or compassion, even though it cripples him inside.
Finally some educated people on this topic.i think we have something in common. Let's hope these life's and leopold get top comments
@@Ryan_hey it also doesn't help that as of 1944 he is the little brother of a 'coward and deserter' which means that should he chose to disobey he would've without a doubt have been shot
Friedhelm is so cute person, that's so sad that war destroyed him and so many innocent people !😱😭💔
Friedhelm's character arc is not as well portrayed as it could be. But I can understand it more than the normal viewer as a creative soft spoken person. Who has seen war.
Friedhelm lost his humanity due to the shock of combat and the atrocities he saw and feeling helpless to stop it, sensitive people will often become semi sociopathic as a survival instinct so they don`t have to feel the pain of empathy, it is a well documented condition especially in combat veterans
Actually, Friedhelm's transition is revealed in the conversation with a comrade after the assault on the radio station. The way he gets through the war is by, "hoping that the man beside him gets shot first". An acknowledgement that perpetual life within the sniper's crosshairs largely comes down to who the sniper decides to shoot first. He knows that someone's going to take the bullet - and just hopes that it isn't him... Of course (very shortly after saying this, his friend gets shot). Another strong transition point is the minefield - where after seeing a friend blown to bits, then forces local farmers ahead of them to clear the mines... Clearly, it is the will to survive at any cost which prompts Friedhelm's betrayal of conscience.
I can only imagine that this dehumanization of your own brothers in arms fosters a survivalist mentality. In which he will sacrifice anyone, and do anything required, in order to survive. It was this quality which made him an invaluable killing tool for the SS. Of course, his character arc comes full circle upon sacrificing himself to save others. In a sense, I believe that he'd made the realisation that the war had already claimed his soul - and his life (though jealously guarded) may as well be forfeit. Truly an interesting character to watch.
The heaviest thing I heard my Grandpa saying (he was with the German Luftwaffe - literally the WHOLE war - eventually got captured by French and British forces in Belgium):
You know, my boy, I quit crying a long time ago. I had to. Otherwise I would have cried the whole time.
He eventually cried when we buried my Grandmother. For the first time since WW2 he cried.
God bless him.
Ludwig H Wow. The wounds are deep.
What was he crying about during the war?
@@tahnolikessharing his comrades, his friends were killed, his home distroyed, death, death, death.
.
.
What a pathetic question.
@@tahnolikessharing he twisted his ankle during Operation Barbarossa.
Respect
Friedhelm changed when he thought wilhelm had died.
Yeah that's what I thought too.
He started changing before that though. That's what war does to the more unprepared sensitive types.
These small details is what makes something worth watching
I can’t imagine how anyone felt during ww2 it’s crazy to think about
Yeah he had already been "desensitized" to violence due to the executions but it was him thinking wilhelm died that made him snap. That and the 50/50 chance of getting headshotted when he and that young soldier were in the building just after that assault. It's been a while since I have watched this so may be missing some details
I feel the Story of Friedhelm is explained very well. He repeatedly says: "The war will only bring out the worst in us" and while his brother, the proper soldier loses his faith in the war. the intelligent and well read Friedhelm starts using his brain for the war. He knows that there is no bigger purpose in life and he starts to turn into an evil entity, also to spare his somewhat naive and innocent brother of having to do these things. He knows he is becoming more evil but doesn't stop it(He says to Wilhelm: "I told you the war will only bring out the worst in us"). But finally when the war is about to be over he knows, that there is no place for him in society anymore and he "kills himself"
Oh, was he intelligent? I had no idea. You know why? Because I didn’t know who he was. I didn’t know who any of them were ergo I didn’t give a crap what happened to them in the end.
That’s why this series blew chunks.
@@billyb4790You are a very "simple minded" person! It's a tragedy and I really feel sorry for you!
Honestly I thought his character arc is the most tragic. It is one thing to realize after you have done so many things wrong to that you are wrong; it is another thing when you know all the time it is wrong and have to do it, whilst knowing that you should not do it.
My grand father was a kind and lovely old man who loved to draw and play his accordion. He taught me a lot of stuff as I grew up, got me interested in science, history and music and I can remember him being so full of love and patience. But he never told us anything about what happened during his time as a german soldier during the second world war. As I kid, of cource I was curious but he always denied talking about the war. Only when he got very old (98 or so) he only told me this one thing: "The memories of the things I have seen haunt my dreams every night of my life since then. I can never forget. We cannot forget." I never forget what he said and I get goose bumps only thinking of it. He past away in 2000 and when my grand mother died in 2014, she left me quite a lot of thing and among those was an old wooden box full of black and white pictures and some military stuff from my grand father he kept during and after the war. Seeing my grand father as a young man in a Wehrmacht uniform was a chilling experience. I could have never imagine that this lovely, kind and gentle old man ever witnessed such violence and pain in his life. He had the same eyes and look, only sader. I tried to do some reseach but only thing I could find out was that he served as Feldwebel in Wehrmacht from 1939 to 45 and participated in many battles on the late western front and got captured in 1945. He got released 2years after or so and returned home. I can only imagine what he must have seen and done.
“Back before Christmas”
Where have I heard that before...
Yes. 12 mil dead soviet soldiers heared the same.
Everyone leaving home before Christmas is told so.
Dont worry lad, Well win the Battle of the Somme before Christmas
Literally every war
Your dad?
The German perspective of the war has been put to light in other series and films also, such as in Das Boot and in Stalingrad.
@Steve Dupuy yup same I recommend watching the paralight Vox series
To be fair, many many German soldiers and not nazis or anti-Semitics fought, wether it was simply for the German army or the fact they had a muzzle and a bayonet to their back. That’s not to say the Germans were completely innocent, but there was even a good nazi who saved many thousands of people. Biographics did a video on him.
@Steve Dupuy Stalingrad (1993)
I mean it’s always been brought to light. Actually it’s the second most common perspective in books and movies. Since 1997. The least mentioned side is japan
@@ChickenLiver911 John Rabe is who he is referring too, in case anyone wanted it for reference
8:54 , I personally think his change is portrayed perfectly. When he was in the radio room in Kursk with Martin, Martin asks Friedhelm how he became the way he was. With great and very nuanced dialogue. Great video by the way!
I think Generation War sometimes gets the balance right between the protagonists being depicted as victim, accomplice or active participant and sometimes it doesn’t.
And that's the point. The victim in one situation can be the committer in the next situation. A black/white perspective good vs. evil isn't how the reality works and social psychology stresses the fact how important the power of the situation is to influence peoples behavior e.g. Milgram experiment, Stanford prison experiment etc.
Honestly, I’m just happy someone had the balls to even someone humanize Germany in WW2, hell, I don’t think a western studio would. (Western = USA) A German studio doing it, is just amazing and I love it.
I was more surprised Germany did it since its a VERY touchy topic.
And i am VERRRRY happy they did that- because that shows to some morons, who cannot otherwise imagine- that people who did all those cruel thing were humans. That motivations may be different, but all in all- they did bad shit. And they weren`t just Nazis from space, that came down in UFOs that brainwashed poor, unsuspecting Germans.
And that... that is motivation to actually reflect, who, why and what they have done...
@Nathan Zhang Not outlawed but whatever content you put out is obviously demonetized. I dont live in Germany so I wouldnt know, I'm sure the use isnt outlawed just very restricted.
@Ryan L did you know the usarmy will check ur script if u want to use their vehicles/stuff in ur movie?^^
Human= german ! ? Think again ,again,again,again,again,again.
I remember watching this several years ago. This miniseries made an incredible impact on me. The days, maybe even weeks after, I couldn't help but continuously reflect on it.
Can u tell me where to watch it? With English subtitles
@@arvindsingh-1999 netflix
I just watched it.... i think i am gonna have the same as you
House of History
Same
Agree
@@realWARPIG this was about the front line not the deathcamps. Also there is a scene where they exuctute partisans.
I can only recomend seeing this, it is a really good series of an other perspective of the war, it is so interesting to look at and very catching
Series literally shows more war crimes and terrible things then any other ww2 film or show, complains that it isn’t bad enough
The series did not want to harm the Holldwood war movie business.
So only a few killings.
You obviously didn't listen to the narrator explain what was wrong with how it depicted the atrocities.
@@Duncomrade I did, he said that we didn’t see any mass killings of Jews. This is untrue I can remember two separate scenes distinctly where 20 or so Jews/ethnic minorities are killed
@@seanassociateproductions1691 Well maybe that's his point. When the germans did a "Judenaktion" (action against Jews), they took all inhabitants of a Ghetto, sometimes several hundreds, sometimes thousands and although most of the time, they "only" directly shot the old, the children and the others who couldn't be transported (those were put in trains to one of the killing camps), in some cases, they just shot them all. Such mass executions could last up to seven or eight hours. You don't really get the scale of the atrocities if you just see a handful people. But alas - "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter" isn't a documentary. If you want to read a good and short book about it: Christopher Browning, Ordinary Men,1992. It had such a huge impact that german historians finally started to really dig into the mass murder on the individual level of it's participants.
Stalingrad is also a very underrated great ww2 movie from a german perspective.
I hope not the one from 2013 wich is propaganda shit
@@stefanSS1480 it's not propoganda. It's just shit, that wanted to pretend Holywoodish
Agreed, one of the best war movies ever made.
I loved that movie so much! ❤️
There have been several "Stalingrad" movies and documentaries. Some are better than others ...
.
Y’all talk like Das Boot never existed
Well said
Youngins
The same director made the movie Stalingrad.
and Der Untergang/the downfall
Das Boot doesn’t focus on the main issues of the war
This series was absolutely amazing and wish there was more. It’s so well made it almost seems real. They did a great job.
My favourite part id the post war scene, when all surviving characters meet in the bombed out bar the story started in. It really showed the darkest hour, or how we Germans call it "Stunde Null" (hour zero)
Der Untergang (Downfall) portrays the ending of the war in Germany well also, another brilliant film...
Stunde Null really didn't last long enough. Entnazifizierung was a sham, way too many nazis ended up in the same or similar position in the Bundesrepublik. Way too many members of the Einsatzgruppen or the SD/SS as such were able to live peaceful lives after the war. All because the German people wanted to forget (the millions of people they deemed unworthy to live and proceeded to kill as many as possible) and start over AND because they were now the new allies of the West against the Soviet Union.
@@dfwSwiss yes but the film/serie shows that too (Dorn)
You mean when they all happen to walk into the same bar at the same time for no reason? Yeah, that was so incredibly deep. I didn’t see it coming 🙄
@@billyb4790 you do realize that Wilhelm, Friedhelm, Charly, Viktor and Greta promised to meet at that bar once the war was over right and the three remaining members of their little group did meet up after the war
In Germany, the film was titled: "Our mothers, our fathers".
A really great movie.
He says that at the beginning.
@@user-zg5ey5xo9i in German.
:D
@Gelmir Curufin what?
@Gelmir Curufin They did lmao
The Germans don't have veterans day. Not allowed
Why they dont honor them as a normal men that served their country?
@@gmalabdalhlem3814 let's Put it this way:
Germany tries to get as far away from nazis as possible.
And having a Day to honor people who fought for the 3.Reich isnt quiet that what you can call:distancing from naziism.
I mean if we whould say:let's honor the people who just fought for theyr country" can be easely turned around in our mouth.
It just takes one person on the Internet ("coff"trump"coff")
who says :" germany starts honering nazis." And we get depicted as that what we trie to get away from.
Not resonsible for the war ? Whos fantasy is it that germany is not reponsible ?
@Pepe Cantero Trump was a exampel as he is a person who shoots on twitter first and asks questions about the actual thing later
@Pepe Cantero and remember what he did after he demanded more spendings in the military by germany.
He tweeted:Germany uparming again. Will history repeat itself?
Amazing, didn't know this was a thing! Definitely watching it as soon as I can.
“The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I am a US Army veteran (Vietnam). I was in the Army from 1964 to 1970. I never held the "World War 2 German grunts" i.e. low ranking enlisted or draftees up to derision. As a low ranking American GI (I ultimately became an college graduate--GI Benefits for servicemen/women and well paid engineer) I can tell you that the low rank and file have no say in battle strategy. You are given a mission / goal /objective and hope to live thru the battle to another day. Its day-by-day existence for Grunts. The German Grunts could not be any different than I was. I was just lucky to be born as the WW2 came to an end. Being in any war is totally NUTS but WW2 was HELL whether German, American, Russian, or civilian in Europe or the Pacific/China. I know that because my Dad served 3 years in combat in the South Pacific ending his service after Japan surrendered.
H D Dunbar Beautifull words
@@HansWurst1569 Thank you Jerown...very nice for you to say that....
Omg bro no one wants to hear the life story part
Thank you.
@@jamalwashium5387 aren't you a fantastic person......
.
............
I always imagined most wehrmacht soldiers just wanted to go home. Like every other soldier of any faction.
Thats right, soldiers are the least you can blame for a war. The politicians are the guilty ones, they are responsible.
When the brother of my grandmother had to go to war, at the trainstation he told to his mother in tears: "when I have to go to Russia, I will never come back".
And his destination was Russia. He died in the age of 19 in the battle of Stalingrad. In a war he didnt want to fight, for a "Führer" he didnt even know.
Greetings from Austria
I think this is where the term 'Ich verstehe nur bahnhof' came from.
@@erzierzi9132 and yet it's soldiers doing 100% of that killing and destruction, not politicians.
@@miwoj of course
Soldiers are the members of a countrys military force. They swore loyality to their country and its government (or in case of nazi germany to the Führer)
They receive commands and follow them. Do you know what happens if they refuse to fight in a war for example? In german its "standrechtlich erschossen werden"
Which means that they are killed for being traitors. Most of the soldiers have family who they want to return to.
Try your "luck" in war or get the death penalty and shame for the family for refusing to follow your orders?
@@erzierzi9132 which is also enforced by OTHER SOLDIERS and not by politicians. remind me again why soldiers are totally blameless and cool and politicians are evil?
GW was an awesome program and the acting was good! As an American with extensive historic knowledge of war and specifically WW2, I thought it was well done .
Very awesome review. You have a great voice for story telling btw ^^
Tom Schilling's performance in this mini series is absolutely amazing.
I cried when he got killed 😭
Saw this years ago and I thought it was a great mini-series. I asked my german coworker if hes seen it and he told me something I'll never forget. He told me that Generation War made his grandparents talk about the war because they had a neighbor who's father was Jewish, but served for Germany in WW1 and they thought that was enough to be proven as a german citizen. They even had a family friend who was like Freidhelm, a shy 19 year old boy who has no interest in becoming a soldier, and came back as a cold and isolated man who eventually killed himself due his extreme PTSD. I felt bad for him talking about it, but he assured me that he now knows what his family was doing in ww2 as his grandparents never talked about it to their grandkids.
@Polish Hero Witold Pilecki He didnt care. All he cared about is that he finally talked to his grandparents about WW2. That was invaluable to him. And that is a story worth telling. Not all germans were nazis either. Ever heard of Operation Valkerie?
Hello I am from Germany. My grandfather Joseph was 17 years old in 1943 and had a "call-up order" to go to a training camp to fight in the Wehrmacht. Shortly before leaving, his parents' house was bombed by the British Air Force when they bombed "Gelsenberg", a chemical plant that produced coal from gasoline. 1942 began the bombardment in the Ruhr area in Germany where steel and coal and gasoline was produced. He survived the bombardment with luck, but was incapacitated after a serious leg injury. That probably saved his life. His brother Georg was in the Navy, he was killed in 1945 during a bombardment on the North Sea island Wangerooge. I have visited his grave many times although I live far away in Gelsenkirchen in the Ruhr area. Another brother was in the paratroopers and, among others, in Russia in use. I've met a lot of former soldiers of the Wehrmacht in my life, what almost all had in common was the fact that they never talked about the war. War is abominable on every side, not everyone who was at war for Germany was also a Nazi. The generation of my grandfather had no choice, either to the front, or you will be shot. You can not put yourself in the people of that time anymore. As it has already aptly formulated under this video an old US veteran, no matter what the motives are to go to war as a soldier, at the front it does not matter if German, pole, American or British, everyone wants to experience the next day. Politicians were responsible for the war itself, not ordinary people like my grandfather and brothers. Not all Germans would be mentally ill killer! Most were normal people who had to fight!
Sorry for my English, I do it with the translater
@@marcowanders85 thanks for posting this,I think once we get past the Propaganda we have been fed all our lives we find the same people on all sides, the germans were no worse or better than anyone else, they were reacting to the very real threat of Soviet Bolshevism and sacrificed themselves for the right to remain unviolated by that tide of filth, unfortunately the Bolsheviks seems to have won the long game and here we are again.
marcowanders85 Thank you for posting. I find it incredibly sad that soldiers of the Wehrmacht are not allowed to have reunions with the exception of Rommels Afrikka Corp (according to a documentary I watched). I’m glad that now ppl are starting to see that not all Germans were Nazis. Soldiers of the Wehrmacht should be respected as well as celebrated and their stories should be heard just like Americans, British, Russians, etc. Like William Tecumseh Sherman said “War is hell”.
Bravo, I was amazed at your very excellent communication of this video and how it enlightened me. Excellent.
I got the impression that Friedhelm tried to uphold his morals for as long as he could, but he eventually saw his efforts as hopeless.
Too bad they didn’t SHOW us that. They didn’t show us any defining moments for the character arcs Which is why the story was profoundly bad.
My father described my grandfather as "A quiet man who would cry when he was drunk". He was on the eastern front; was shot a cripple in 1941
I remember that my parents told me that my great-grandfathers both were pretty indifferent after returning. Both did never talk about it. One was "Lucky" enough to have fallen ill and was transported home just a week before the battle of Stalingrad. The other was not so lucky and became a POW until '55. They were both teachers before the war and my father's grandfather joined the NSDAP, though it's unclear wheather it was to get employed or he actually believed in the ideology
My grandfather served God love em (luckily we are from Scotland) served in the Philippines with royal engineers was captured by the Japanese after escaping them with a small group of others after most of the rest surrendered, 3 of them made it to a port and on a fishing boat when captured the others he believed escaped as he never seen them again, he and the 2 others were taken to Burma along with some aussie soldiers where he and another scotsman from the argyll and sutherlanders escaped again, when captured the argyll he said was skewered on a bamboo shoot and left to rot in the heat while my papa was shot through the knee caps, he survived the Burma campaign but lost all 4 of his brothers in other theatres 1 in Africa 2 in France both d day and the other at sea, as a child in the very early 80s I remember my papa telling my father these are for the boy 1 day he will understand them he was never really reminiscent of the war only what my granny told me in many later years the horrors he and many other soldiers endured, on my passing out parade in 2001 in Catterick depot my gran at that time was 87 handed me a box wrapped in his old handkerchief his old medals still gleaming, still have them with 2 of my own service medals for my kids! One thing I remember as a child in the early 80s is my papa cleaning his stable belt and medals with toothpaste a trait I still use today for them! The last time I seen my gran was 2003 I had leave for 48 hours before heading to Brize Norton I stopped in at the care home to see her in uniform and she said billy what you doing in uniform (my papas name) not mine she had dementia in the end held her hand and spoke for an hour, left teary eyed and headed home to say goodbye to my youngest daughter for 6 months my gran laid to rest 2 weeks later beside papa Billy I was not in attendance, my miniature medals still reside beside them my papa knew something back then as a child I would learn later, medals are just bits of metal worth fuck all to flaunt them while heroes lay in rest is an insult, never have worn my 2 and never will out of respect to every fallen man who didn't come home, my kids can do as they please with them pass them on or toss them aside for what they are worth! I have grown to love my country as an island but ashamed of the crown I once served for they have like many thousands before and after me forgotten us in favour of those we fought to protect them instead give them rights we dont have homes we need and finances we are owed
My father was in the Red Army for the entire war. He never talked about it. Ever. To all our endless probing he calmly responded each time - you donna wanna know.
My grandfather was also a soldier. He served in Polish Army during the war. In 1939 he was fighting Germans in eastern Poland when the Red Army attacked our back. He became POW after Grodno surrendered to Soviets. Spent almost 2 yrs in Soviet concentration camps. After war, he told that Soviet officer who made a speech to Polish POWs after they came to Kozielsk camp said that "This is the place where your bones will be buried". In 1941 when Germany attacked USSR, Soviets suddenly recalled that they have Polish POWs. They wanted to make an Polish POWs army. Red Army tried to send them for a sloughter without weapon- as cannon fodder... Thanks to gen. Anders they escaped USSR so they could continue fighting in Italy(as a part of British VIII Army). My grandfather served in Polish 2 Corps. Captured Monte Cassino, Ancona and Bologna. After returning to Poland in 1947 he was treated like traitor by Soviets and communists... He said that being POW in USSR was the worse experience during the war... Many of his friends never returned- murdered in Katyn, Kozielsk and Starobielsk...
German here. Both my grandfathers never talked about the war. As a kid I asked them what caused their big scars (bullet entry and exit). They gave me a made up story that made me laugh. When I was older I once insisted to hear a real story from the war. My grandmother told me to leave him the fuck alone. That was the first and only time I saw her angry.
Friedhelm was changed by the general horrors of war. 4 years of nearly constant fighting will destroy you.
That and when he watched Wilhelm his beloved big brother 'die' right in front of him
As Wilhelm states so fittingly at some point, "Many people think that war is mainly fighting. But that isnt true. War is mainly waiting." And yet, its what happens when you dont wait that destroys you.
Dont forget that ass wiping he took when he fell asleep on post
My thoughts where that Friedhelm was deeply emotionally hurt at his homevecation after his dad showed him that Wilhelm should be back home and alive instead of Friedhelm.
I think there where many other factors that matterd too, but that moment was propperly the last waterdrop to overflow the drum.
C D
A bad marriage can have the same effect on you
THE closest thing to real life of WW2 from the German side we will ever see in media.
das boot and stalingrad both are from a german perspective and not really the war is fun and cool movies you get from hollywood.
@@zhufortheimpaler4041 those are both very good movies...with all fictional characters and plots. The other part of your post makes no sense however...
@@davidlouis1068 i dont really get your initial comment nor the answer to the guys' one. why do you think this will be the closest thing to real life from the german perspective? and why World you counter the guys' argument with fictional plots/ persons when Generation War is the same?
@@OAlemaozinho do you understand English? This series is based on REAL people and REAL events what are you talking about? The other comment makes no sense because its not in proper English...
@@davidlouis1068 i try to understand Englisch, thanks pal:) do you? even when there was a little deciphering to do, clearly the guy meant that a lot of Hollywood stuff is just heroes stories that dont have much in common with reality. and this flick now is the most loosely based on war diaries of the producers grampa and told stories, so what exactly do you mean? Its as much fiction as the forementioned movies.
I watched up to where you said there will be spoilers.
This WW2 mini series sounds very interesting...I will watch and return.
Hope there is English dubb or subtitles.
Thanks.
Can you have a more german accent? I dont think its possible.
straight out of hollywood
It's especially weird since much of his speech doesn't have that much of an accent to it, but his r-sounds seem almost like he was deliberately TRYING to come off as German as possible.
Der Kolben Its more like this guy is dutch not german
It's a France accent
Der Kolben Its not a german Accent. Germans dont pronounce the „ch“ that way. He Sounds more like a Dutch or a French guy
Freidhelm was very interesting to me, he had motivation in that he switched off and just followed orders as a coping mechanism, compartmentalizing the atrocities he committed. He gave up trying to good, because it destroyed him everytime he was forced to do something horrible, it's a coping mechanism, so he stopped thinking about it and just did it. We see this alot with modern soldiers, when face with a situation of no other option they just do, and don't think.
I also think some of his change came about after the death of his friend in the minefield, up untilt that point he is the only German soldier who talks to Freidhelm in an even halfway friendly manner and his idea to use the Russian civilians in the next scene can be seen as a direct result of his loss.
And especially losing Wilhelm his big brother his protector and best friend which destroyed whatever bit of humanity/innocence he had left
(Spoiler)
His character volunteering to die instead of surrender felt like he was finally ready to pay for the blood he shed during the war. Feels kinda biblical, even. It's as if he's finally "paying his debt". Awesome miniseries.
Yes, gripping portrayal of what war does to men.
He also sais in the show: Man versteht dem Versuch, menschlich zu sein. ( You try not to be humain)
Ive seen so many clips of the series but I never knew it was so well made!
As a military historian my self, your channel is the best I seen in CZcams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any movie: Has Axis soldiers as protagonist
Everyone: wAiT tHaT's IlLeGaL
Jay Lee illegal what about all the black panther movies or the che guavara T-shirt maker. Even Wikipedia only has half a sentence about him controlling appeals and executions.
@@MRTOOTH0331 People are stupid, do you think they care?
They will just call you a Nazi for saying "not all German soldiers were evil" while branding a Che Guevara shirt.
Oy vey that's antisemitic! Someone call the ADL!
ALSO-RAN ! Dumbass Japan was already preparing surrender before the nukes were dropped, they knew they would face a tow sided invasion from Russians in China and Americans in east and South Pacific.
@@reportedworm4314 this is incorrect, they said themselves they would defend their homeland down to the man
The Germans are people too. I like the idea of the movie
no shit sherlock
Mike OZ it certainly shows Nazis doing some horrible things.
@Mike OZ 1.5 million Germans were drafted into the Wehrmacht at the time you could not dare to speak out against Hitler's government. Yes there were definitely German victims of WW2. During the Boxer rebellion it was western troops abusing the Chinese and the Japanese being outraged, during WW2 it was the Japanese abusing the Chinese and the allied forces being outraged kind of says something doesn't it?
@@jeffk464 There were german people who not only spoke against the nazis but engaged in sabotage like Edelweisse Piraten, White Rose and the Scholl siblings. You just needed moral courage vast majority of germans didn't have. Folks here talk about germans being victims as if nazis came from mars. There were victims of nazi regime who were german, but they were victimized by other germans for being socialist, communist, lgbt, "race traitor" or a member of resistance.
We are people too, but don't treat us like children and I definitely don't want to see you do that, as many people do nowadays, as a TOS safe way to approve what my grandparents half let happen and half contributed in. People are people, nazis however are nazis. To talk about what Tom Ash posted: socialists, communists etc were literally the first victims of the nazis too since they were for the most part the only ones opposing them meaningfully. All of this isn't just music of the past btw.
Don't take too much notice of this commentary. This is arguably the most brilliant show I have ever seen. I don't believe it was supposed to portray life in Germany during the war, I believe it is meant to portray the directions in which the war took five close friends, after all, they are the main characters. Watch it, you won't be disappointed.
I think they should have directly translated the title from the German. "Our Mothers, Our Fathers" i think that speaks to the humanity and the film makers are looking back and trying to understand what their parent went through - as human beings, flaws and all.
I've read ten German war memoirs, each one has been great. The "soldier's war" is realistic and the common experience from what I have read and that makes sense in my opinion. The impression all the authors gave was the desire to restore German greatness and right the wrongs of WWI were the major motivators for why the masses of Germany were ok with Hitler and the war - contrary to the cartoonish portrayal of Germans as all Nazi zealots in our media. Two of the memoirs I have read were SS and I got the impression theirs were not the whole truth, while I only got that impression from one of the eight Wehrmacht memoirs that I read. If anyone would like a recommendation, I would personally recommend Blood Red Snow by Gunter K. Koschorrek, Forgotten Soldier by Guy Sajer, and Soldat by Siegfried Knappe.
I read forgotten soldier as a kid, that man lived a tough life.
"Back then we were heroes, Today's we're murderers"
~ Wilhelm Winter~
Rad Davito don’t lose
@Mike OZ Are you talking about the rape, murder and pillage of Germans at the hands of the Soviets or of the Poles (right before Germany invaded Poland)? Eisenhower's concentration camps are something few people know about. You've got a lot of good ideas there.
@@brantdanger and the germans
@Mike OZ it's not about the soviets it's about the germans
@@brantdanger What evidence do you have that proves that Einsenhower had concentration camps?
I'm a Brit (an older one ) and I remember my Granny telling me that , during the war , she worked in a place where German uniforms were being processed , she would empty the pockets and clean them. She found things in the pockets like rosaries , prayer books , photos of family etc which touched her and she said they were boys just like ours . Also , my father later found out he was on a list to be shot if the Germans came . It's a funny old world .
shot by the brits because he had important information?
@@Farlodan It was a German list but I think you know that .
@@jamesguitar7384 Pretty sure he does not. The way you worded it makes it seem like it was a British governmental hitlist of potential traitors. Write clearly if you want to avoid confusion.
@@yarpen26 You seem to imply that it would be reasonable to assume that the British were like the nazis . I find that to be an unreasonable assumption as , I believe would most people . Therefore , I feel that what I wrote was clear enough .
@@jamesguitar7384 No, same here. I thought you were referring to some british list of possible...traitors, spies, what have you. Mainly because it seems odd that the Germans would have had lists of random British people to kill.
I have not watched this series, but I very much enjoyed your review and commentary. The questions you say are posed in this series need to be asked again in modern times. Globally, hunankind is on a nother dangerous path.
I have been looking for something like this, thank you.
I love Generation War. It's refreshing to see the war depicted from the German perspective. It's amazing how 80 years after the war you now have young people calling everything they disagree with fascist or nazi, they haven't a clue what either doctrine is. I have been involved in WW2 reenacting for many years now, but wearing a Wermacht uniform is now regarded as problematic for people who have no experience with history. So now reenactments have only allied uniforms and battle reenactments are a thing of the past here in Ireland.
Сам то хоть автомат в руках держал .войну он любит
What a shame, I understand first world countries are a cultural mess nowadays
This is a wehrboo thing to say.
You must have watched the series several times but you should watch it another time and focus on Friedhelm. Even better, try reading Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning. The 'plot holes' you point out generally aren't real plot holes. I.e. the Ukranian thugs - they were used in vast amounts by the Germans. Also, this doesn't 'absolve the Germans' like you said as the SS officer ends up executing the child. The whole point of the series was to depict a group of non-radical, humane friends put in an extremely radical and deteriorating position. So the lack of motivations/political beliefs you point out are exactly the point: the lack thereof. Men were drafted. An entire nation was put into a situation of extreme war, many of whom were kids younger than us (at least younger than me) who were everything but radical/politically engaged. I think that's what makes this series great: it attempts to keep a non-political group of friends free from politics even though their entire situation is drenched and ruined by it.
That is not to say I didn't enjoy your video. Just wondering what you think about these observations because apparently both of us watched the miniseries in complete different light. You obviously put lots of work into it and it really shows!
I agree
Thanks for the reply! Humbling to see another video creator swinging by here!
I certainly do get your point in watching the series from that perspective. I suppose it's primarily a personal preference that I wouldn't have minded some more political insight into the conflict/period as well, because we rarely (if ever) get to see this time and place from the national-socialist perspective. There's actually another (German) series that I hope to cover another time that tackles that topic very impressively, so I may be a little influenced by that as well. As I said in the video, the series certainly doesn't -need- that political aspect shoved into it as well - it covers the topic that it does try to cover perfectly well (for the most part). But given how it tries so hard to give us an insight into Nazi Germany's society, I would have expected at least a little something of the Nazi ideology thrust upon them. Not necessarily within the group of friends themselves, but even just the elements (superiors, parents, teachers, etc.) around them. I feel it's a bit of a missed opportunity, but it certainly doesn't take away any of the value the series has.
@@Hipstorian At the front, Nazi political "reinforcement" was something I did not find much. Outside of what was on the radio or in the newspapers handed out in the field. Unlike the Soviets, the Germans did not have political commissars within the ranks spouting the virtues of socialism/Stalin. Many of those killed by the Germans in your video were considered to be partisans and bandits. Be it true or not. Were the people lined up in the woods innocent civilians or "suspected partisans". If a large trench were dug and people lined up and shot that is one thing. But if it is few people here and there you can say they were killed during a security/anti-partisan operation.
Many Wehrmacht, Police and even a few SS escaped prosecution because of this. Leading the Geneva Convention being revised in the treatment of civilians I believe in 1948 or 1949.
@@DeltaEchoGolf Arguably the Wehrmacht did not need political commissars because Prussian military tradition was enough to instill total obedience and loyality (something the Nazi party did not like, hence the SS as a safeguard against the Wehrmacht). Pretty much all depended on the officer preventing war crimes or not and be able to have a supeior to cover their ass. Otherwise most soldiers would do whatever they were told even if only to not let their comrades down.
Only very few people have the backbone and individual streak to stand up to a group in such a situation and most of those few indeed were shot.
Something to keep in mind, in WW1 the Imperial German army executed fewer soldiers for cowardice and desertion than the British or French, a couple of dozen, the Wehrmacht executed thousands of German soldiers for cowardice and desertion. In many way the bankruptcy of the Prussian officer elite was this complete betrayal of Prussian military traditions. They thought they lost WW1 because they were not hard and brutal enough so they tried that in WW2, including against the soldier and at the same time demanded of the soldiers to be ruthless which helps in murdering people.
@@Hipstorian maybe you should also give "babylon berlin" a try...it takes place in berlin between world war 1 and 2. It gives some insight in pre-war politics in germany and is quite similiar in terms of camera and vibe and kind of "feels" similiar (sry dont know how to express it better in english)
I just watched the show and it is one of the best WW2 series ive ever seen.
Me too and me too.
Unser Mutter Unser Vater was fantastic piece of film. I must say your video is blowing up which is great I watched this when it first came out.
Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter*
Five German friends
Me: oh this seems nice
Mentions Soviet Union
Me: oh boy....they are dead.
I don’t want to know what happened to the two females...
I mean their freunden's slaughterd their contrymen what dis you expect
LOOOOL I THOUGHT THE SAME THING
Makes movie about german soldiers representing their story since stories of the horror of nazi germany's death camps have been already made
no one:
absolutely no one at all:
Critics: why isn't this about the holocaust!?
That and this series focus is on the frontlines and Berlin not the concentration camps
"Der Hauptmann" is a pretty good film in a shocking kind of way. I highly recommend it as an epitome of evil that lead germany to start another world war.
Max Meteor You a historically illiterate pleb, Germany didn’t start either of the world wars. You’d know that if you did some research.
@@karlowalderam362 Neo-nationalsocialist apologist. You can quote bullshit spewed by other fascists all day long.
Germany started World War 2 and trying to put the fault in someone elses shoes (let me guess: it was the jews, right?) makes you nothing but a fascist and a coward.
One of the main character’s entire family is killed in a concentration camp.
OP: this isn’t enough
Friedhelm reminds me a lot of Willy Peter Reese, the German soldier who's journal entries were made into a book A Stranger to Myself. A fantastic read, highly recommend it.
I agree. I've read many memoirs, especially by German soldiers, and this one is among the best.
I read that one too and it’s a very good lecture
I read that book as well and I totally agree with you
You mentioned Friedhelm's transformation is never really explained, so i'd like to offer my opinion on the matter.
Originally he's an innocent romantic. The little brother who needs looking after, and a disappointment to his father by not being manly/soldierly enough, definitely not the quintessential aryan that would propel the Reich for a thousand years. Once attached to his unit, he's further pressured and picked on to be a good soldier, highlighting him as a disgrace to his older archetypal brother, of whom he looks up too. he starts to find it more and more difficult to retain his soul as he begins to lose hope while witnessing the atrocities of war and the evils men are capable of. Struggling to come to terms with his new reality, a stark contrast to his original, more poetic viewpoint.
He begins to give up as his romance fades, and apathy takes over. no longer caring to live, he nearly gets his squad killed with his suicidal actions, causing the squad to punish him with a beat down. and this, in my opinion, is where his turning point lies. this is where he fully and completely gives up the fight for his innocence. he trades his sadness and confusion with anger and frustration, if everyone really wants him to become a monster, then he's gonna damn well show them a monster. and he gets progressively worse until his ultimate demise.
The dynamic of the two brothers is great here, because this is nearly the exact opposite of Wilhelm's progression. The ideal soldier becomes so frustrated with the futility, and the horrors of war that he slowly opens his soul and grows more noble. he went from blindly following orders, to following his conscience, and eventually leading him to desertion.
Ultimately i think this is about people coming to terms with their own rose colored view of the world, realizing they've been lied to with propaganda and brainwashing, and having to understand that the world is a lot messier than they've been lead to believe.
Lastly, you should check out this video, it's extremely well made, and may offer some insight that you've never really thought about when it comes to war movies:
czcams.com/video/yf0G2MPBEYM/video.html&ab_channel=LikeStoriesofOld
Excellent analysis. I agree with you.
I'll check out the link. Thanks.
If it needs this much explanation then they didn’t do a good job showing us. In fact, they didn’t do a good job with ANY of the characters transformations because they never gave us enough backstory about them to even care.
The show was shite.
I'm afraid that most people seem to want simple dichotomies - they don't want details or nuance or degrees in their moral compass. They should be careful with their judgements . It used to bug me as a kid that all German military of the time were labelled as Nazis when the term meant membership of the party , I expect many hated Nazis - you only have to watch Das Boot to get a flavour of that. As to genocide ? Well , the world stood by and did NOTHING in Rwanda when they knew EXACTLY what was going on - they had a NATO general on the ground trying desperately to get anyone to care . " Never again " - my arse.
Comparing genocides serves no purpose. Have you done anything about Rawanda?
@@davemaxs4136 Excuse you while you hop on a plane to the next genocide to stop whoever is carrying out the killings.
Media always seems to avoid the fact that stalin killed around 5 times more people than hitler
@@winterautumnfishing5215 What is the point? only the highest kill count is the villain?
@@winterautumnfishing5215 no, media does not avoid that fact. media talks about the amount of people killed by Stalin quite often. media does not talk about that while the subject is something else, which is what you are doing.
Another great work that shows the war from the German soldiers point of view is Stalingrad. The German made one. Couple other ones out there that are shit, but the German one is excellent.
Well you can also watch "Enemy at the gates", it shows pro-German view of Stalingrad too and manages to hit every piece of Goebells's propaganda with absolute accuracy
Best WW2 movie made in my opinion.
@@HammerfallJonas Stalingrad?
garrison0532082
The Russian movie ‘Stalingrad’
The Russian film ‘Stalingrad’ seemed me like an American war film. The Russians are portrayed as being brave, honourable and above anything even mildly offensive. While I’m confident that many, if not most Russian soldiers were like this, it’s ridiculous to suggest the Russians were faultless!
To me, this is the reason most US war films are rubbish!
The German film on the other hand shows a more honest and nuanced version of war. I thinks it is an excellent war movie and wish there were more such films, made by every nationality.
I found this to be a thoughtful and intelligent analysis - thank you.
Getting to know the human condition is like losing a loved one.
Fried helm is honestly me favorite character of any movie I’ve ever seen
both of the brothers characters are very much realistic. loved the whole series so much.
Great video,
my grandma was Polish living in Volhynia during WWII. I still remember her stories about running away from Ukrainian Insurgent Army and how there were Wehrmacht soldiers that protected them from harm.
@White Fridge I foresee it's gonna be another pointless fight between Western Ukrainians and Poles. I speak Ukrainian, Russian and Polish. I know both(or even 3) versions of this history. Ukrainians call it "trahediya", Poles "rzeznia". I'm quite interested in this topic and I know some things. Polish goverment in the 30's and the late 20's made some mistakes about policy with Ukrainians. That's fact. On the other hand OUN-B didn't let Poles to improve Ukrainins situation. They(Ukrainian nationalists) knew, that when there will be some improvement in Ukrainians situation, Ukrainian people will not be willing to fight for independence. So they even didin't want Polish goverment to improve their situation. Whenever appeared some politician who served both nations, he was immidiately assasinated by OUN. When war started, there was no Polish goverment, no Polish police. So OUN could do whatever they wanted. I'm not gonna write whole story of murdering Children and Women. You can google it. I'm sorry to say that, but UPA was the main agressor. Before 1944 there was no Polish AK(Home Army) in Volhynia, so it could't be war. It was just sloughter of Polish families, often mixed families and Ukrainian families who didn't support UPA and OUN. When AK appeared there, in 1944 they started fighting(murdering) back. But the difference is that Poles usually shot Ukrainians instead of torturing them cruely before death. Another fact was that Poles killed less Ukrainians than UPA Poles. There are a few lists of tortures made by UPA on Polish people.
My family was mixed family, my grandmother was Ukrainian, my grandfather was Polish. But that time grandfather was fighting Germans in Italy... So grandmother was alone with children... She told us about what she saw. She told us about heads cut out from bodies. They survived because some friendly Ukrainians warned them before UPAs attack. There were even ukrianian rhymes about killing Lyahs and Jews... And that's true that villages where Wehrmacht was were safe... UPA was afraiding of Germans, because they were armed. Sometimes Germans even gifted weapon for Polish "village self-defence". That's why Schutzmannschaft Battalion 202 was formed. Germans knew that Poles will not fight them, they will fight Ukrainians instead. Some of Polish "Schutzmanns" lost whole families because of UPA and they volunteered to german police only to take revenge. Nowadays west-Ukrainian historians are trying to make UPA heroes. They're in state of war so they need heroes.I understand that. But you have some more real heroes like Petlura, Chmielnitskij, Sahajdaczny. Why don't you use them? We can continue talking, because it's very complicated topic and it's not in white and black. But without insults please.
Regards
@White Fridge I think I don't really understand your answer. It's the US propaganda film showing German campaign in Russia.The US goverment just wanted to motivate G.I Joe's to fight in Europe showing them atrocities commited by Germans. It has nothing to do with what was going on in Vohlynia and Galichina in 1939-1947 period. What do you mean saying "not evil things"? Crime is always crime. No matter if there was a good reason or not. The way of murdering also matters...
@White Fridge Yeah, I agree with you. Wehrmacht commited crimes in Russia. Footage is also real. But I thought that we're talking about "Volhynian Slaughter". You were trying to justify OUN and UPA for murdering people in cruel way.
@White Fridge Everything depends on point of view... Could you say something more about Polish nationalist kicking Ukrainians out of homes? Due to my knowlegde Poles and Ukrainians were ussualy in peacefull relations. There were even mixed marriages. My family was example of mixed family. I wrote everything I wanted in my first post
@White Fridge And what about 14th Panzergrenadier SS Division? Aren't they heroes in Lviv or Kijiv?
I've watched Generation War - Twice. As a history buff I thoroughly enjoyed it. As for Hipstorian's review of the series, I did not notice anything I would argue with.
Where did you watch the show?
@@user-hb4zz4gh5e it’s free on Tubi, you don’t need a account either
I watched all three episodes last night ! I couldn't stop ! It is so very well done, the characters can all be felt, the acting was superb, it is an excellent "series" !
Do not miss it !!!!
Girls hate that sentence:
I will be back at chrismas!
Dude... everyone who served in the military or doesn’t served in the military hate that sentence. Ranging from WWI to Modern Warfare today.
@Joshua Beley There is nothing sexist about that... WTF XD
And some said goodbye while they new that they would never return from that war.
Hey now they said "by Christmas"
They never gave a specific Christmas
Joshua Beley your a dumbass
Just finished watching this show a few hours ago and I thought this show was a masterpiece for me. However, after listening in to your criticisms, I definitely can understand your viewpoints.
Great miniseries. Once I started watching it I could not stop.
Anytime a solider says he will "be back before _______." means he will either
A. Never come back
B. Spend WAY longer than he thinks at war
An exellent miniseries that stands shouder to shoulder with Das Boot, Band of Brothers and The Pacific. What we need next is a Russian show of equal calibre
YES!
There's a movie called, "Enemy at the Front Gate" which is a 2001 war film written and directed by Jean-Jacques Annaud and based on William Craig's 1973 nonfiction book Enemy at the Gates: The Battle for Stalingrad, which describes the events surrounding the Battle of Stalingrad in the winter of 1942 and 1943. The film's main character is a fictionalized version of sniper Vasily Zaytsev, a Hero of the Soviet Union during World War II. It also includes a sniper duel between Zaytsev and a Wehrmacht sniper, Major Erwin König.
@ivan ivanovitch ivanovsky lmfao. I mean... still a movie based off of the Soviets.
Yes its long overdue showing Communist crimes against humanity , Stalin killed more of his own people ( up to 14 Million ) - Russians than Hitler did - wich was the reason why over1 million Ukrainians - Baltics - Russians Joined the SS !
@@Hadrian9707 yes but enemy at the gates was not on the same level of authenticity as band of brothers type series. You cannot get even the slightest of ideas of their lives in an 2 hr movie. I would love to see a series of the Russians front and the details surrounding their struggles
The show doesn’t depict them as a victim, I’d say it shows that we’re all human, I bet most people just wanted to go home.
YG_Thony 99 its the same with (i think its called downfall) a movie that showed the last days of hitlers life in the führer bunker which was heavily criticized in germany for „humanizing“ hitler
@@TheBusbyBabes I think everyone just has a hard time thinking that actual people commited all these atrocities instead of nonhumans I guess. Humanizing anyone is going to get some critisism especially one who's commited such atrocities as Hitler.
@@miro5031 It has something to do with the sheer scale that Germany managed to do it and the industrial way it went. I know the other countries have done atrocities, only idiots think that any country is innocent, but the number of countries that were affected, the number of people, that has never really been seen before.
@@miro5031 Stalin didn't plan famine, it was caused mainly by drought and poor agricultural policies at the time. Germans, however, planned to subjugate Eastern Europe and take living space for themselves murdering millions of civilians in the process. The USSR alone lost 16 million civilians: women, children, elderly, shot, burnt, hanged, starved.
@@edilemma8052 uhmmm no, stalin ordered to take the grain, and plus not only the ones that died by starvation but what about the ones that died because they opposed to stalin or that were killed because stalin thought they were a threat to him in order to keep his power, just look at gulags
The Soviet government was not satisfied with all the grain being taken out from kolkhozes, Sovnarkhozes, and subsidiary farms, so according to Prodrazvyorstka, grain was also confiscated from crofts of peasants. It was planned to expropriate 3 million poods (42,2 million kg) of grain in 1946. In order to confiscate the grain, which for many farmers was the only hope to survive, different repressive measures were used. Stalin procceded to deny the famine, even denying help from other countries, any oficial who spoke about it got killed.
Just watched the series. God what an impactful show. It was interesting as an American seeing the German perspective.
It is sad that the Polish army (yes, it was regular but underground army, with the exile government in London) was not properly recognized or mentioned in false way. A huge mistake.
The Germans in the eastern front wouldn't know about them or only know what the Nazis told them.
@Hipstorian
9:00 I think the main reason for Friedhelm to change was resignation. He lost the faith in himself to be able to change anything about the situation.
He is ordered to shoot someone and refuses? Well, someone else is gonna shoot anyway.
At first he stood true to his anti war believes until he "accepted" the reality around him and was more like "let's just get this over with".
He had no goal, no ambition. He thought his only ambition - his brother - dead. After that he became like an emotionless hull, still a smart one, but one that completely lost the hope and a reason to live for.
And that was what truly inspired and frightend me in this movie. His change of character, his realization that this world is not one where his believes and his empathy stand any chance of survival.
Realising the powerlessness that leads to resignation and a loss of will.
And that, in my opinion, is something that is one reason why smart, kind men turned into ruthless murderers.
They lost the will to fight for their believes.
"Moral courage is a rare virtue in Germany, but it completely deserts a German the moment he puts on a uniform" - Otto Von Bismarck
that is true for just about anyone, not just germans
Otto von mierda para el
James Wilcox
He was talking about his generation.
@BruderShaft1 Hitler "demanded jews" now? What are the people of today smoking lmao
You know that the plan was to get them all OUT of germany all along but literally no one wanted the jewish immigrants, so deportation was not an option?
Now it seems people are under the impression that Hitler just rang at people's doors begging for their jews as if they could fuel his tanks or be used as ammunition.
Nice meme
@@skdKitsune Just the deportation? Oh no big deal, it is like if someone came to your house today and said everything you and your family ever worked for is mine and you need to go to a different country/language/culture and start over! Yeah bud, even if that, in the pretend neo-Nazi universe you live in was all they were asking it is still ATROCIOUS!
This series is so damn good! And looking at the overall cinematography of the production it looks almost identical to Spielbergs WW2-creations. Aa new short-series created by both these directors and screenwriters - were one episode is about an American unit - the next episode is about a German unit. And it keeps on going like this back and forth until the ending in some epic, making them face eachother or something. Im baked okey, I got ideas and stuff. Cheers.
Funny you mentioned the timeline skip between episodes 1 and 2, cause thats exactly how I felt. I felt like this series was episodes 1, 3 and 4 of a 4-part series with part 2 missing
My grandad who served in Vietnam told me to read 2 books before I enlist. Red badge of courage and All quiet on the western front.
Because there's no such thing as a pure evil enemy.
But one was about the American civil war, brothers vs brothers, and ones about the first world war, in which the war was more like a typical war between nations.
Ww2 saw the wholesale slaughter of millions of innocent civilians, millions. I mean it's almost impossible to comprehend how atrocious that actually is. And that doesn't even include the military casualties. A better book to read would be something written by a Jewish holocaust survivor to understand something about ww2 and pure evil.
Lithane the point is the men that fight are not the evil ones. The leaders are always wicked.
@Polish Hero Witold Pilecki is it? mass bombing of cities, be it german or british or japanese, carelessly or even purposely endangering or killing civilians? you know in vietnam they had stuff that worked much better than bullets or artillery shells, even years after. napalm and agent orange. Vietnam may not have been on a big scale as WW2, but it surely was just as much hell for civilians and soldiers. as is basically any war.
@Polish Hero Witold Pilecki it was strategized by WWII veterans wasn't it.
@Polish Hero Witold Pilecki combatants aside, I hope you aren't suggesting that the pain of WWII was worse than that felt by people in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia. Pain is pain, war is war.
When German soldiers were captured in Narvik, in Norway, there were all asked, "Why did you come here? We're brothers!"
Basically there were two reason for that, first of it was the transportation route of swedish iron via norwegian habours which hat to be securded be4 the british would be to take action.
The second reason is also related to the habours but because of their strategical importance for the Kriegsmarine. So to speak to have a shorter route via the denmark strait into the atlantic in order to be able to disrupt british supplys. By the time Norway was invaded Hitler still believed he could bully the brits into a peace treaty if the toll he places on the people would be big enough.
Conscripted armies gave the soldiers very little choice. Even Allied conscripts would be punished for refusing to go to a war they had no part in creating.
Nordic brothers that just stood by an watched while Britain and France was busy trying to destroy their Southern brothers.
My great grandfather fought in the mountains there. Was always bothered by why he had to kill those German boys. Hvil i fred, beste.
Norway, Denmark etc. the so called "Germanic brothers" didnt even bother helping Finland against the Soviet invasion and basically are weak and decadent until today. Germans had no choice but to occupy these potentially hostile countries to ensure Swedish iron
I saw that TV show a couple of years ago and I was very surprised and impressed to see how good it was.
It is a fantastic series and highly recommend, it’s a shame that there were only 3 episodes
the 4th episode are them now living under East Germany, under the Soviet Flag.
I appreciated the part in the end where the Gestapo guy just seamlessly ends up in the new police and the american officer is perfectly aware of his past. Because that's exactly how things went, it's a part of historical truth that is often overlooked.
Correct. General Patton became the Governor of Germany and pretty much let a lot of the people directly responsible for war crimes go without charge. Why? Because he was obsessed with Communists and wanted the German government mostly intact to fight it. Many Nazis who should have been killed were let go and integrated into the post war German government.
@@davidlynch9049 yeah and virtually nobody in Japan was prosecuted that’s how the cookie crumbles they had better things to worry about
@@davidlynch9049 Obsessed with Communism? He was 100% right about it. The only thing he failed to understand was that the war-weary populations of the US and UK were never going to agree to launching a new war against the USSR.
As for the Gestapo officer, dealing with war criminals like him after the war wasn't much different from allying with the equally brutal and evil USSR during the war. You do what you have to do to fight the greater evil, and sometimes the greater good demands compromises. While Hitler was alive he was the biggest threat so we cooperated with the Soviets to bring him down, but after Hitler's death and Germany's defeat in the war Nazism was no longer a significant current threat while Soviet Communism was. Punishing him wouldn't bring back any of the people he murdered, but cooperating with him might prevent deaths when the Cold War threatened to turn hot. And don't kid yourself that the Soviets didn't do exactly the same thing, but on an even larger scale. Much of the East German government and almost all its intelligence service after the war were former Nazis, many of them war criminals.
love me or hate me ‘Justice’ is just revenge with extra steps. you hooligans want to lock up OJ Simpson despite him doing nothing criminal for 20+ years. the ‘War Criminals’ posed no danger after Hitler died, you foolhards just want to make the world blind 😼🥀 lmaoo
im just pissed Netflix took alot of the shows off
Since when, wtf ? I just watched Generation War on netflix.
@@DrumToTheBassWoop 2 years ago the whole show was up
@@DrumToTheBassWoop Netflix is location based
@History of Today spoken like a true rightwing tinfoil head, the show is still up on netflix
@@muasibasl4796 read Apollo's comment.
I had already watched most of this series. When i saw this video i decided to finally finish it. Then i came back to this video. I can say without a doubt that this series is incredible in every sense. Please give it a watch.
The rifle used by Friedhelm at 8:52 is a post war Yugoslavian manufactured M-48 rifle, and not a K98k. You can tell by the handguard and by the bolt that is still in the white, as well as the bend in the bolt handle.
Close enough
Very eloquent analysis of human nature and circumstances in the context of time. Listened to your review several times as it is extremely thought-provoking and very well presented.
Friedhelm’s motivation has been made plenty clear: without Wilhelm there is nobody to look out for him anymore. Friedhelm died inside. It’s all about survival now.
Atleast the majority of the reason why Wilhelm deserted was because without his beloved baby brother to take care of and protect he loses any will he had left to keep fighting he had nothing and no one he can turn too
Just finished this yesterday and I love this series. My only small gripe is not enough action like band of brothers but I get budget restraints. I would’ve liked to see the full battle of Kursk but again a fantastic series.
Yeah I've just finished watching it also. It was fantastically made, just wish they had a bigger budget. But u can't expect Hollywood to make anything nearly as good as this as they throw money away in making shit movies like Fury
2:15 this is my timestamp to know in which moment ill watch it after watching the series