MIDI Clock and your DAW: How To Sync Your Synths
Vložit
- čas přidán 4. 09. 2021
- I see a lot of reports on the forums where people are having issues with their synths synchronizing to their DAW, particularly when trying to "print" audio from a synth, recording it into the DAW. I explain about MIDI clock, how it used to work when MIDI first came out, how our modern synths deal with it, and how to fix sync issues with your DAW.
- Hudba
Anyone with a few synths are going to run into this when they try to play or record them together. This video is vital information and from someone who also owns the Hydrasynth and JDXI I lurned something new. Thank you!
The clock can just drive us nuts! Thanks for this. We synth nerds can learn so much from each other!
Just as an update (great video Scott) The Hydrasynth has been updated since this video, 2.0 clock is much faster to sync now :)
This is an excellent tutorial and problem-solving vid. With proper understanding, the principles covered here can extend to correcting sync issues with instruments beyond just the ones shown.
Ive been making electronic music for close to 20 years took classes at my community college and I still learned something new in this video. Thanks a bunch.
Fantastic, glad to hear it!
Again, a so interesting, useful and well explained video. Thank you Scott.
Thank you for the kind words!
Just discovered this video. Definitely helpful when I finally buy today's synths. I use an Akai MPC to sync all of my synths and never have a problem. Great video. Just became a sub. Thanks. 👍👍👍👍👍
This is brilliant. Never knew what the prob with my Summit was - until now. Thanks!
Best explanation of this I have seen on the internet! Thanks... Subscribed :)
I was trying to do this with a Novation Supernova module and it was miles out. I have had success before but wasn't sure why not this time. Of course I usually have a bar or two free at the start in case I want to jump an intro before the track. Your video was really helpful in confirming that this is probably the reason why. Thanks very much for your help.
Amazingly helpful Scotty.
Cheers for this. Have exactly the same issue with my Peak and wondered what the issue was. Much appreciated.
Fantastic demonstration 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Great explanation and demo!
Again Super informative and easy to follow!! This helps so much.... I thought I'd mention here that I am awaiting a MIDRONOME (which was a Kick Starter pgm) I bought into... It's basically a Universal Master Clock for literally anything..... my studio isn't quite ready to make a video or anything but if you google midronome, it's all over.... Thought I'd share with you and your followers to check out..... While I'm here I'd also love to give a shout out to Steinberg and their Cubase iC Pro (remote control capability with iPads/iPhones, etc). I know you're a Cubase user and I am too and I wanted to be able to hit RECORD from anywhere in my studio without being tied to the computer.... I was amazed... I downloaded it, installed it and it asked what computer from a list, I l clicked and BAM! There it was on my iPad.... I happened to have a project open and IT JUST WORKED!!! (Sorry... just wanted to share these since I know they may be of interest......)
I was so surprised when this worked hahaha on my drum machine too, I would have never thought of it. Good stuff!
That was very useful Scott, thank you.
Just the man I needed to subscribe to Scott! GREAT SCOTT! 🤖
Very helpful! Thank you for this!
There is a timing issue with the Moog Grandmother too. I'll try what you showed here about the bar early technique. Thanks for sharing this
If you are using Logic Pro, Apple is still writing a proper USB Driver for the Unitor 8 and you will not have these issues, but us Cubase folks are a bit screwed as midi in cubase is not what it used to be, anything with USB/Midi these days without a proper driver (class compliant is not sufficient) is going drift, been doing this since Atari 1040st which was super tight, the only other solution for me was to go to CV, control voltage, which is dead on all the time. You can also just insert the external instrument as an audio channel, and cubase can compensate the latency, I dont like to print audio right away, so this is another way to get super tight timing, Great Video. Cheers
I agree. Back in the OLD days (grey hair showing here) MIDI was tight, not as tight as CV/gate, but still far better than USB MIDI is today. I'm *really* holding out hope for USB 2.0 to fix this mess, with fabulous, well-written, low-latency drivers.
You're right that Cubase can compensate latency, and it does so fairly well...but there's no way any DAW can compensate for jitter, and we get unstable printed audio as a result. Some synths are FAR better at this than others. Many digital synths today are really poor at syncing their internal clock to MIDI clock consistently.
Thank you, my set up with Mpc one, Modx and Korg M50 seemed to fumble the notes for that first bar. I smoothed it down in settings but this should solve it completely. Major Thanks in advance!
Hi Scott, thank you for sharing this video! Very informative. First time watching your channel. Subscribed!
-Devin
Thanks Devin!
Good explanation. Awesome shirt :D
very good information Sir... thank you!
Good info, thanks.
Very helpful, thanks!
Very nice video, thanks! :)
Super tip with the extra bar, thanks
That's super helpful. My problem with the wavestate though is that it won't play wavesequences sometimes if the clock is set to external. So should I keep it on auto and then just record a bar early? Most of the time with auto midi clock the wave sequence will work but I have to set the internal clock to the same bpm as DAW and then trigger the Korg.
Super helpful
Exactly what im experiencing...I don't recall it being such a headache back in the 90's but then I barely had any gear. Do you know anything about the clock of the rolad mc505? Been trying to sync it as well together with a behringer RD9 drummachine (TR909clone) and i get totally sloppy sync like your video. Thinking to do the switch back to Cubase after 20 years....but not sure it makes a bit difference between Ableton and the syncing...having to pre-count 1 bar is super annoying but seems like the best way. Gonna try use my MPC as the master clock as well soon.
Tip: Retrokits RK006.
Solved a lot of my sync problems. 4 or 5 external sequencers slaved to an mpc live II..
I can get myy JDXI much tighter than before/yours now...
based channel keep it up scott!
Hi Scott, great video. I have the system 8 and the wavestate and I am struggling to do patch changes during the sequence. The roland has msb and lsb which in Reason 12, my DAW, I can only see the midi channel and the prog change but this does not change to the bank. So cc value 82 but that's as far as I can go.
Any help please?
thank you !! Subed
Very cool
Really cool Scott. Do you think this same workaround will work with older synths (with midi) but from the 80s/90s?
For the most part, they shouldn't have this problem. When the old synths see a clock signal, they drive their entire internal clock slaved to that clock signal. They are not like these modern synths that are bound permanently to their own internal clock, and whose idea of clock sync is to measure the incoming MIDI clock, and then try to set their internal clock to the same value. That process is what causes the problem I demonstrate in this video.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Great, can't wait to try this with my DAW on my DW8000. Thanks.
OK, thanks, but HOW... HOW do I actually set up my synths to track to the MIDI clock on my Daw? What is the process by which you actually get them to talk to each other? What is the parameter setting I need to find and turn on? I've set my synths to "external clock" many times with many synths, but I seem to be missing something, because it does nothing... HOW... "H.O.W" do I sync to a MIDI Clock?
If the synth is set to "external clock" or "clock auto" (where it switches to external clock when it sees one), then the only thing left to do is to tell your DAW to send a MIDI clock to your synth. Some DAWs send MIDI clock only when playing/recording, others can be configured to send MIDI clock all the time. You usually have to configure in your DAW which MIDI devices it's going to send MIDI clock to. How that is done is different in every DAW.
Great video and will try your "bar early" tip: Is it better to sync midi via usb or midi din?
USB *usually* works, but DIN MIDI *always* works. I try USB first, if it has any issues, I use DIN MIDI. USB has a bit better latency than DIN MIDI.
This is really helpful thank you... I do have a question that I can't seem to find an answer to... I have the JD-XI and I want to record the audio from internal sequencer to Cubase 12, it works but it's off the beat so looking at the audio wave from the recording, the beginning of note 1 starts about a 16th before the bar so for example I get half a bass drum - Anyone had this problem and solved it?
How do you have all the synths connected to the DAW? I'm new to this MIDI syncing thing, since just getting my 2nd synth, and I'd like get a small collection of synths synced to my DAW. Thanks for the vid, really helpful.
Most are connected via USB (through a bunch of USB hubs) - mainly because most of these digital synths require USB for their librarians/editors to function. Others are connected via DIN MIDI, through a MOTU MIDI interface.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Thanks so much!
Good to know! I just got the Summit as my first synth, and now I am worried about workflow when talking about the midi clock XD.. Does this problem also occur when Summit midi connects with any live sequencer and or does it only happen when connected with a Daw? And or how would you keep all synths in sync with the clock, when a sequencer gets involved in a live setup?
Normally the sequencer would be sending MIDI clock out, and in most cases it's going to be constant, so you likely aren't going to have to worry about start/stop clock sync on your digital synth trying to keep up.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Thanks! Still a bit confusing when you connect Summit to the pc, that it does seem to have issues to sync with the pc midi/usb clock.. I Assume that having a good mixer that also supports midi/usb clock sync, would be needed to maybe also avoid that latency problem?!.. Anyway it is good to see you also found a workaround for this.. keep jamming, cheers!
thank you
I've been having problems syncing a Korg Triton Classic to Cubase 13 to take old songs (sequences) off the Triton and put them to individual midi and audio tracks on Cubase to redo the songs. Any ideas? Thanks, just subscribed.
Does it also work to just set the synth's internal tempo to the DAW project tempo? I just bought the Minilogue-XD, and any sequence or arp has a tempo set. It looks like the method in this video probably makes the most sense but I was just wondering.
i'm pretty confident on midi sync but the biggest problem i'm struggle on, since my synth collection is grown up it's the audio's latency that come from a synth that have a midi writted on the daw, using ableton i'm lucky to do ms adjustment on each tracks but every time you'll add something like as a plugin or another track you'll completely lost all and have to do the adjustemnt from scratch...do you have some tips or tricks for this issue?
I don't use Ableton, so I can't really make a suggestion for this - I can tell you that in Cubase (which I use), it just takes care of MIDI, audio and plugin latency automatically. It just "fixes" it in the background without you doing anything or even realizing that it's occurring.
Sounds like automatic delay compensation issue...
don't use plugins, use outboard fx for sound design and multitrack record all audio together. use plugins afterwards once all audio is recorded. Also if you use an analog sequencer to send midi to your devices and just use Ableton to record thee audio you will have nice tight sync and the hardware groove and nuance.
For strictly recording, this doesn't actually matter that much, really. You can record out of sync and just drag the recording into sync, as long as the tempos match, of course! Real time syncing becomes much more important when playing live.
Anyway, this is all fine in theory. Sadly, at the moment I'm experiencing a lot of issues getting midi to even work in my setup, and judging by what I'm reading online, I'm far from the only person experiencing issues with this. It's strange how such a seemingly simple communication protocol can have so much issues. I'm looking for info on how to go about solving these kinds of issues.
It does matter when you start using things in the synth that are BPM-synced, like LFOs and especially arpeggios - it will literally play the wrong notes, out of time until it syncs up, which is why you want a solid lock BEFORE the notes begin to play.
@@ScottsSynthStuff ah, you mean that the tempo will still be changing slightly at the start of the recording? That would be problematic indeed!
@@mrblablablabla Exactly. It needs that extra bar to finish syncing its tempo and adjusting its internal BPM to match.
@@ScottsSynthStuff thanks for the clarification!
Any advice on solving midi issues (devices not showing up in software)?
Especially when that protocol is decades old! I wish all the companies would just strictly standardize everything period. Like wtf? Stop screwing around and torturing us it's hard enough to be creative with all the other technical BS getting in the way!
I more or less was using this same technique, except that if I’m triggering for example a drum sequence on my elektron cycles, I have to pause the sequence after I’m recording on my blank bar and then manually press play close to the bar I want to start recording on, and then usually visually slide it to the beginning of the bar after recording. Is there a better technique than this?
My issue is how to sync external devices precisely if the DAW isn’t sending midi notes, but is recording an external sequence.
Thx!
Aghhhhh!!! Why do we all have to deal with this?!? 🤬
Can you use inbuilt ARP/SEQ presets in DAW with MIDI? I'm new to HW synths. I have a Microfreak and I'm experiencing a bit of a learning curve. Any tips appreciated!
I have sent an arpeggiator from Cubase out to my Korg and it works fine. I think it does go out via simple midi. You may already have figured this out, I see that your comment is from 4 months ago - just saw it now.
What device do you recommend to route information from the DAW to a keyboard/drum machine?
It depends on the device. Some allow simple USB connections and route MIDI over USB. Some require MIDI - I've had great results with MOTU MIDI interfaces, although now that my studio has expanded, I use a (much more capable and far more complex) iConnectivity mioXL.
Hi everyone and Hi Scott; sorry if I'm going a bit OT but I need to humbly ask the community for help, since I've NEVER been able to sync two or more devices using mini jack sync instead. I've owned many, including korg volcas, Arturia keystep, etc. Now I've got some second-hand devices: korg Electribe 2 sampler, sonicware Liven LoFi-12, Liven XFM... I've tried a lot of times, since they all have the Sync In and Out ports, and I NEVER did it. I don't understand what is wrong: do I need specific mini jack for sync? Isn't a regular stereo mini jack fitting for this? How can I understand if polarity is right and/or how to set it correctly? Is there a complete guide to start with? Until now I connected the devices using the midi ports, but since I'd like to use them in some cases for other devices such as a midi keyboard, I'd like to set them free and start Syncing, at last. Thanks anyone for helping!
How do you route Cubase to send midi to all those synths. I have a UR44 but it doesn't have enough midi. I have a psr a5000 arranger, modx 6 and a couple of midi controllers and would love to use all of them with Cubase.
MIDI thru box is one solution if you’re using midi for daw to synth. Midi merge box for synths to daw. Alternatively usb hub if that’s your choice of cable (assuming your synths / controllers have usb!). Hope that helps.
It's a mix of a MOTU micro lite MIDI interface - amzn.to/38U0yBs - which plugs into a USB port and gives you five independently addressable MIDI in/out connections, and USB connections. Most synths today give you MIDI over USB, and many of them REQUIRE USB in order to use their librarians or other custom functionality. So I have some large USB hubs into which the synths plug into, and those go into my DAW PC.
So with a mixture of the MOTU MIDI connections and the USB connections, they're all hooked up at once.
A bit pricey but fantastic solution is a MioXM from IConnectivity. It has support for 5 pin, usb and ethernet connections.
Is the same thing going on when trying to jam and loop? I’ve got cycle set up in Logic and a sequence that plays in time when pressing start, at the end of 8 bars the sequence skips the first one or two notes then starts to play out of time. Without cycle on, the sequence plays just fine for what seems like forever.
I've had the same thing happen in Cubase with a couple of synths. I haven't put a MIDI monitor on it to see exactly what happens when something loops in the DAW to cause this, but it's clearly a small glitch in the stream (probably the MIDI clock?) when the DAW loops that causes this sort of thing to happen.
@@ScottsSynthStuff I need to try and recreate it in a different DAW possibly or see how other synths react. It’s interesting each synth behaves a bit differently like you pointed out.
Can we put all synths constantly in a ever running clock, despite of sequence/recording/playback? If there is a solution like that, it could be a smoother process, could it?
Yes, there are ways of doing that, most commonly with an external clock source, like an ERM Multiclock. IT becomes the master clock, and the DAW (and all the other hardware) syncs to it.
@@ScottsSynthStuff so would you disable the other clocks in all of the synths ?
Where does midi offset or midi delay settings in a DAW come into play with this issue?
Hey there. I have a Moog Matriarch. When it's not connected to Nuendo, the sequence plays what I programmed. But when I connect the midi, it plays extra notes, but not the sequence that I programed. Is there something I should check in Nuendo/Cubase? Thanks so much!
I wonder if you have a MIDI loop going on? You might need to turn Local mode off on the Matriarch, and rely on Nuendo to send the notes back to it? It depends on how things are configured.
@Scott's Synth Stuff thanks for the reply. I turned off All Midi Inputs in Windows Midi. Looks like I did have a loop going on. Seems to be working fine now. Thanks so much🙏🏽
how could tempo of the hardware synth smoothy be notched with an external midi controller?
Hello, how can i connect those machines into the daw ? Do I need a device ? also, what about keyboards that do not have an built in ARP or Sequencer ? thank you so much
You can use a MIDI interface to connect them via DIN MIDI, or pretty much every synthesizer made over the past few years also has a USB connector, and can route MIDI over USB.
Even synths that don't have an arp or sequencer still do the same thing, they can sync things like LFO rate, or FX delays, etc.
@@ScottsSynthStuff hey, great video. Could you please explain how to sync the lfo rate to bpm between hardware synth and DAW
Does the DAW just automatically send the clock out or do I have to set it up that way? Is the Hydrasynth getting its sync from the MIDI cable or from USB?
Also when syncing MIDI gear each piece must be plugged directly to the host but not daisy chained otherwise you'll build up a delay due to MIDI serial nature.
It depends. In the "old days" MIDI through ports were exactly that - a hardwired, electronic (well, optoisolated) connection from the IN to the THROUGH port, so no delay. Every synth on the MIDI chain got the same signals at the exact same instant, no delay and no lag.
Then came microprocessor-driven digital synths and cost reductions. The "through" port was removed as a cost reduction, and instead you could (if needed) switch the "out" port to function as a "through." If you did this, the processor inside the synth would read the data from the IN port, and re-send it out the OUT port. In doing so, it introduced a bit of lag. Daisy chain a bunch of these together, and you can get significant lag from the first device to the last device in the chain.
But if you're using classic synths with a proper "through" port, there is no lag at all.
Today, with the advent of inexpensive USB to MIDI interfaces that give you multiple MIDI ports on a single USB connection, every device can have its own dedicated MIDI port without having to daisy-chain, so this type of lag is no longer an issue.
Shout out to the C64 prompt!
I was a C64 programmer back in the day. :)
@@ScottsSynthStuff yeah man. LOAD "*", 8,1
🤓
This the most neglected subject on the internet. I been trying to figure this out for years.
If you're using a hardware sequencer as your master would it make a difference whether you enable sending midi clock or not? Since midi sequencers can trigger notes at specific times in a sequence? Thanks
The hardware sequencer will still send MIDI clock, which will sync any other synths that require MIDI clock for something (arpeggiator, clocked effects, etc). If you aren't using any sounds on other synths that require MIDI clock to play correctly, then you don't need to have the hardware sequencer send it. The note on and off data is separate from MIDI clock.
@ScottsSynthStuff ok so i use my MPC as a sequencer to sequence all my synths and drum machines, all of which don't require Midi clock to play correctly like you said. Does enabling clock send just ensure that all of them are using the same tempo? Kinda like how a conductor directs an orchestra?
@@miles46100 Exactly. MIDI clock makes sure they are all at the same tempo, so any tempo-derived effects (arps, delays, etc) are synced up.
@ScottsSynthStuff thanks so much. I was so confused as to whether or not i needed to enable midi clock.
One more question: so if i didn't have a standalone sequencer, if I assigned one of my drum machines as the master, and did midi out and in to the other slave instruments, when i press play on my master clock instrument, would it just start to play patterns that i have preprogrammed in the other instruments? Like on my Roland boutiques, they have their own step sequencers, so my master clock would just prompt them to play sequences that i programmed into them beforehand, except to the tempo of my master clock/drum machine, and it would just loop. Hopefully that makes sense.
How do I sync my reel to reel to Cubase?
what if want to start and stop any sequencer of a synth when i want while the clock is running? Cause when i stop a sequencer and then i want it to come back just by clicking play on it, itìs never on time. I would like to have a count in like ableton does, is it possible?
Did you figure this out?
@@anonymous_friend the only way of doing that is using a erm multiclock
hello, good morning very interesting video I wanted to know from an expert how to drive my supernova novation and make it play through the sequecer dwl my model cycles elektron tramote midi (no pc) thanks
Have you tried syncing a daw (Logic Pro) with MicroFreak? I am having a huge issue with it… and doesn’t seem to be able to find a solution 😢
I have not...thje Microfreak has been added and removed to my Sweetwater shopping cart several times, but I've never actually bought one (although I played with one at Sweetwater before).
@iambeetle I had a bunch of issues with it, and arturia tech support helped me out. Now that I’m checking it, it’s still finicky, but basically it’s this: in Logic open project settings, click midi, and check clock next to arturia microfreak (it should be a destination if it’s connected via usb).
Also, if you’re recording midi info on an external instrument track make sure that the midi in port (on the far left side of the screen under the track settings) is is set to ONLY microfreak and not all, like it defaults to. For me, the arpeggiator would play in time once and then stop. Just now as I was testing I had to press utility on the microfreak and set the clock to usb and then back to auto.
@@zhexum thanks Zack, I am also talking to Arturia tech support now. And they said they understand my issue and will log it as something to work on for future firmware update. My issue is different but not rare. Because I need to play the microfreak live with my band’s drummer’s logic track live, I will have to change patches during the song, and that cause the sync to not work, because microfreak needs a “start” message to align the bear, and logic only sends the “start” once when the play button is hit… so yah… no solution for now for me, but I really hope they can fix it, it is kinda a deal breaker for me…
So sometimes you record in everything is in time but later in the arrangement some tracks can become off. It’s this MIDI Jitter? Is this the fault of the DAW or the Synth? What’s the solution?
If the drift becomes worse and worse over time, that is not jitter. That can only be caused by a) missed MIDI clock signals or b) a synth that is using an internal tempo slaved to external MIDI clock, and it's not following quite right.
After I left Atari ST I never managed to sync Korg Wavestation wave sequences good enough. MIDI clock is simply not accurate on modern systems. ATARI ST with any sequencer software and any MIDI interface - MIDI clock and slaved devices worked perfectly.
Wavestation was/is notorious to slow MIDI response. I never wave sequences as a pseudo sequencer - only to morph between waves that were similar (like the VS set). It's depressing to see how some of the modern synths w/ arpeggios are so bad. I have a SQ-64 which thankfully sync's very well to MID clock via Digital Performer and their MIDI timestamp tech. I also have moved to using clock pulse via the audio interface to modular clock-in. Extremely tight.
Maybe one of you knowledgeable lads could help me out with my synthesizer. Just purchased a Moog grandmother and have been hopelessly looking for answers on how to properly connect it to my daw. I’ve got it connected to a Scarlett solo 4th gen, have all my drivers up to date, all firmware in the grandmother up to date aswell. Running the recommended Ts cable from the synth to my interface. I’ve also got my synth connected to my pc through usb. In FL studios, its showing that its all synced up and all options are enabled to start using the synth. When i play the grandmother it sounds like absolute shit. The audio quality is horrible, and sounds far from whats its fully capable of. I noticed in the audio options tab, it wont play audio off of my focusrite usb, but it does play off of the FL studio ASIO. Both sample rates and buffer sizes are matching aswell. If Anybody has any tips or tricks to stop my head from balding from all this stress, it will be gladly appreciated.
Can you do one of these with a focus on mobile please . 👽
Спасибо!Проблемы с синхронизацией MIDI бывают и при подключении к Cakewalk
I really don't understand this midi clock. I bought 2 external sequencers (Arturia Beatstep & Nektar Aura) and I'm working with win 11 & Reason 12.
It is impossible to synchronize correctly, there are crazy jitter, no note played at the same time, and it's not a problem of latency/drivers/hardware) I just think that there is no solution (it's been 1 year that I try to solve this problem to be able to use my sequencer). So basically, we are sold hardware that is just unusable to play live. If people have the miracle solution?
This is great but it doesn't help if you're sending clock from an external source to both your daw and other gear. I have an sp404 Mk2 and it hopelessly jitters and I've jet to find a solution (tho I haven't tried using 404 as a master)
Yup...I have an RC505 MKII that does not play nice with anything else unless it is the master, so I just have to reconfigure everything when I want to use that thing.
Or.....you can buy an innerclock sync gen, expensive but worth it if you have more than 4 synths.
Which one do you recommend or think is best?
0:47 😱
In electronic music there is more mathematic than music theory
Music IS applied mathematics.
@@ScottsSynthStuff Yes it's true, all music is based on mathematic rules...but with midi hardwares this aspect is even more relevant.
I can't help but think the system seems a bit outdated! Does it work? Yes. Does it work well, and easily? Not so much.
For solong time i'm interessted in making Music and own some synths, but i've newer get them together to Work with Midi in a setup. I'm a Midi noooob🤔🤯😒
MIDI really isn't that difficult - you can make it complex, but for the most part, you just plug things in and it works. You might need to learn about MIDI channels, but in this day and age of modern multiport MIDI interfaces, with a dedicated MIDI interface for each instrument, that's no longer as important as it was back in the 1980's.
😘
Doing this in a live setup isn't ideal. I wish the powers that be would standardize this stuff. That was the whole point of midi in the first place, why go backwards with advancing technology?
How could anybody be so handsome (and single?) !!!! Call me!😁
Yo why tf did he heart this
We should just create an AI program that listens to the synth and automatically updates the DAW.