Why Hybrid studios Suck. // E-RM Multiclock thoughts
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- čas přidán 26. 06. 2024
- Hardware Latency Issues!! ugh... I thought i was going to regret buying this Multiclock from E-RM but i quickly realized i was blown away by how well it not only worked.. but solved issues in my studio i didn't think had answers. -- I pad for this thing, this isn't sponsored. i just love this thing. -- So here's my E-RM Multiclock review.
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00:00 What's good
12:47 Why ERM MultiClock Always Starts A Bar Late
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As an actual (non-music) engineer with a large studio, I can explain "latency", but there's no simple explanation. Anyone who says "hardware/analog only has no latency" is also theoretically incorrect, since everything takes some amount of time. Sound through air is relatively slow and audio through cables is limited to under the speed of light, which means although orders of magnitude smaller, there is still "latency" with everything.
However in the case of sync, I think "jitter" is a bigger problem itself than latency. The "real problem" comes down to modern computers absolutely suck for doing anything requiring precise timing. They may be hundreds of thousands (far more?) of times faster than an MPC or Atari ST, but the way they are built and designed they are not able to accurately send out a MIDI pulse at a fixed time.
I guess a simplified way to put it, is in the case of an Atari ST or an MPC, the "software" has complete control over the CPU. It is doing nothing else. The MIDI in also has a direct interrupt to the CPU. The second an event is received (or, based on the clock, which again has full control over the and the timing of everything) the "program" is interrupted/transmits immediately, and instantly handles the event. The reason it can do this is more or less because it only has to and only does ONE thing, run a sequencer.
Modern computers are quite far from real time. You have multiple cores now, running thousands of threads, splitting the CPU time between sources, and also requiring synchronization. You have a bunch of devices over the PCIe link (like USB controllers or MIDI cards), which are NOT truly synchronous (Cubase ASKS for a note to be transmitted, which is then queued, and transferred in a burst, eventually to the device - it is not sent directly to hardware immediately). It is almost the same concept as why we have "audio buffers" - audio is not being transmitted in "real time". The interface is reading 44100 values a second to its output. Cubase promises to deliver the next 128 samples before it has run out of new samples to read. Those 128 samples are processed as a chunk and then queued to be sent out. This is why if you set your buffers too low you get dropouts - the computer isn't able to process the chunk 64 samples and get it to the hardware before it runs out of samples to read. You can consider modern computer MIDI "chunked" too, Cubase is constantly asking the notes to be sent - which goes through a long and non-synchronous process before it actually makes it to the device that should be sending it. Sometimes it takes more, sometimes it takes less time - but since it can't be "buffered" and sent BEFORE the device needs it, it has to be "real time", which it just can't do well. This is why jitter is a bigger problem for modern computers - the CPU is busy with something else? Your clock pulse gets delayed by 2 ms until it's free. This is how solutions like the E-RM and InnerClock generate a stable clock pulse from the audio out - the audio out is precomputed and buffered, and will always end up being sent at a constant rate by the interface. MIDI "can't be" (MOTU "tried", it should possible but not simple, and would require a tightly integrated hardware+software solution, which I guess no company has ever felt the need to hugely invest in).
In the case of older gear, yes, everything in existence still has latency, which can be more or less depending on how well it's designed. When the MPC receives a MIDI signal, even though the CPU is interrupted immediately and it is handled immediately, it still takes a fixed amount of time for the CPU to decide what to do with it, and a fixed amount of time for the unit to start triggering a sample to be played. Usually older units don't suffer as badly from "jitter" for that reason - they're designed in one way for one thing and therefore that one thing often takes a constant time. They're not busy handling hundreds of background tasks before processing the event. However, the fact remains (again, depending on how well its designed), if the CPU is busy handling the playback of multiple other sounds, it's possible that something gets briefly interrupted (i.e. jitter). But, unlike a modern PC, when the entire hardware is dedicated one task, that can be controlled through design - unlike a PC, where you end up with whatever combination of everything in the system ends up interacting with each other (yes, one really shitty device could affect the timing of everything else, which is why back in the day it was wise to use a DPC spike tool if you couldn't set buffers low enough - bad WiFi drivers could be eating up lots of "time" delaying the audio from reaching the interface fast enough).
In conclusion, PCs suck for accurate timing/music *because* they're so much more complex and advanced. Older music things have MIDI directly wired into their CPU.
Also, like some people already said re chaining MIDI devices - DON'T do it. Each device will introduce more and more latency and each device will be more and more "off" until the one at the end of the chain is pretty far from correct. Just get a MIDI patchbay - I have a 16 in 20 out. They will transmit MIDI from one channel to all 20 others with only a very tiny (comparatively) amount of fixed latency. I have pretty much everything in my studio on it, mostly so I can easily toggle between my synths getting the keyboard out directly, the MPC out, or the PC out. I even "try" to keep each synth on a different MPC out since multiple MIDI channels will cause latency against each other (with a patchbay, it's just pushing a button to change the routing). That is exactly why the "professional" MPCs have 4 MIDI outs. If I remember correctly, MIDI is capable of transmitting 1 event per millisecond - which means if you are using all 16 channels, and each channel is playing a note at the same time, the 16th channel will have 15ms delay between the 1st channel. This is why you'd want to evenly distribute parts between the outputs.
jesus christ man, this was such a good piece of information
Yeah, long read but spot on. The best we can do is run a dedicated machine with as few services and apps, use latencymon to verify real-time capabilities, and hope for the best.
Yeah, long read but spot on. The best we can do is run a dedicated machine with as few services and apps, use latencymon to verify real-time capabilities, and hope for the best.
Amazing, thanks for laying this out so clearly
excellent read.
“I’m not a scientist, I’m just a regular nerd.”
🤣
Thanks for being honest about your sync issues. People have made me feel stupid for years because I have so many devices that each have different latencies and I can never figure out how to get them all to sync correctly - Ive always wondered why my setup is continually frustrating me and everyone else’s seems to work flawlessly. The usual explanation is “it must be your DAW...” and it usually is! I’ve been looking for a no BS master clock and I’ll give this a try. As of now, I’ve been going one on one device by device because I don’t trust my computer to do anything properly even with my current midi interface.
Brother, we've all been there. Let me guess, if yer like me, you've even tried multiple brands of expensive cables and various lengths as well. Zee Zjermans have done it once more with this secret weapon. And... It has a few more tricks up it's sleeve besides what it's known for as well..
A lot of people dont believe or cant hear this type of midi jitter/latency but its def real. I use a similar system that iv been using for about 10 years and it was life changing in the studio with lots of midi gear/chains. Mine is the Sync gen but its the same type of concept and there are some other similar solutions. expensive but worth it if you need this type of workflow.
I will say for a long time it never really “bothered me” but then I heard a really stable clock signal when making music with just an MPC as the master clock going to a few things. I’ve basically been chasing that but with a DAW. Once you hear it it’s hard to go back
If you can make do with just 1 midi clock (or use a thru device) then check out the expert sleepers usamo. Same tech as the erm multiclock and just as stable ALOT cheaper tho 🤔
I enjoy your content. It’s nice to see you drilling into a subject with such granularity. There’s nothing more frustrating than to sit through or scan a ‘how to’ video, only to discover it’s mostly general info but without the how/why’s, which always leaves more questions than answers. 🙏
Latency is such a fluid issue, it’s almost always a problem and the source can always change. It is infuriating and a real inspiration killer a lot of the time. My main achievement within quarantine has been building an Ableton template that is all in sync, finally got there and I can sleep at night now.
One of the best purchases I’ve made for my hybrid setup. Solved so many timing issues that were coming from the computer’s latency.
Man I am **so** glad I'm not the only one who spends a crazy amount of time checking every transient while I'm editing because I don't trust my settings.
Trust your ears not your eyes. If it sounds good it’s ok.
I will never have enough thanks to give to you for the tip of delaying the e-rm plugin track. I've had the multiclock for years now and only today I realized this would work wonders for me. Thank you a million times will still not be enough!
Hey Ricky! Found ur channel a month ago and I’ve watched like a 100 vids. U have helped me so much, inspired me. I don’t even have analog synths and just started getting into music production. Just wanted to say thanks for everything. Keep it going :)
you can configure the output of the multiclock plugin as an External Audio Effect to exclude it from the soloing behavior
Awesome.
this is why i love the comment section! thank you soooo much for this.
Cool tip ! Thanks 🙏🏼
Weworktomorrow also there is a trigger pulse signal that you can download from their site if you want to trigger your modular
Yuuup, internets put me onto this tip as well and was just about to post. Saves a whole lot of grief.
By far best tutorial and walk-through/review channel for hardware peeps. Thank you once again for a very informative video looking forward to the next
you rock! no one gets into detail on these much needed topics like you. thanks!
Why do I love this channel so much, especially when I use complete different gear and rig.
Because of his attitude. He's not the "HEY THIS IS JASPER COMING AT YOU ONCE AGAIN WITH ANOTHER QUICK TIP TO ROCK. YOUR. WORLD!"
Haha right!! Exactly, plus we all carry the same addiction too.
wow thanks for making this clear. its the first time I've actually understood what the hell the ERM clock is actually doing and how it would possibly fit into my setup. TBH the latency thing is one of the things I find very discouraging about working with outboard hardware. I am primarily working ITB, but with a tool like this maybe I will be less hesitant to invest in more hardware in the future.. great vid, as always. TY!
Ricky, you are the man. Pleasure to meet you at NAMM this year. Stay safe and stay blessed
Awesome video as always. I use the SND ACME-4 similar to Multiclock but i went with the SND because of the swing and division on switches. Very hands on but both are good options. Keep up the good work ur doing. Loving it!
Hey Ricky, just want to let you know I love your content. Your videos are nerdy as hell and I love how educational they are. Its awesome to see all the intricacies of a hybrid setup that ill probably never have the money or time to set up myself. Keep it up man, your videos make my day.
Thank you for the kind words!! it means a lot, and im glad you relate to the nerdy side of things haha
You're diverse man. I was just watching your pocket operator tutorials and ran into some latency setting up my minilab 3 within Reason just now. Big thumbs ups for these videos and the knowledge. I appreciate it.
I didn't understand a word, but I'm glad you know what you're doing
You explained this so well. I own one but hadn't got across it fully. I have now thanks to this.
Is it possible to route midi notes from a sequencer on Channel 1 output to a synth plugged to Channel 2 output?
For example, a sequence of your MPC plugged in output channel 1 to go to your modular plugged in output Chanel 2?
Another case of GREAT timing on topics. I have a need for this exact type device. To finally complete the hybrid fusion in my studio. Definitely relate to the MIDI chains with my MV-Modules setup. I'll have to take a serious look at the ERM. Keep up the great work bro!!! Peace...Netm8kr
Your intro vid is the shit. Smooth, crispy and not 30 seconds long👌
Really appreciate the video I've been doing a lot of ableton work but haven't quite got to routing things together. Glad to have this to consider when setting up!
DUDE!! Thank you!! This is what I have been looking for too. In short, I am sending midi to DMX to control my pixel LEDs along with controlling 4 synths. It’s been maddening to get all to sync perfectly. I’ve seen the ERM, but like you had sticker shock. I am going to buy now! Seriously bro, thank you! Love your videos.
I used to have no problem until I got into modular and semi modular, because I played one synth at a time with external instrument. I was forced to learn more. Still learning. Videos like this really helps.
Great video explaining that ERM device. I've always stopped playback and trimmed off latency from the beginning of the recording. Though that only works OK with drums, not other melodic sounds.
hi i need to convert some midis to acoustic piano with disklavier. what is the price for each item? Thanks a lot
I appreciate you bro !! always good info. I'm facing the same problem and trying to rewire and adjust my studio with a hybrid system.
This video is exactly what I needed! thank you
I've got an E-RM multi clock but I thought the learning curve was a bit steep as I'm new to MIDI.
I got stalled on there not being a 4/4 option.
6:23 MIDI router description was very helpful.
11:34 great explanation of why the audio signal input in port 1
15:00 sounds like unipolar vs bipolar (on Moog gear)
18:00 I think the shuffle mode is for live performance
stay safe 😃
I love my ERM Multiclock! It solved all my problems and made my hybrid setup a seamless and painless experience. After many years of pain, it changed my life.
Preach it!!!! My synths are all over the place and there is no one adjustment that fits them all. Back in the day they had a very expensive device called the "SRC Friend-Chip" similar concept but ERM so more advanced.great explanation.
I really love "it exacerbated the vibe". definitely going to start using that to describe distorted basslines
Oooooh, yeah ... MIDI clock/sync issues. This looks like a nice piece! One of the reasons I love using the MC-500 is because it remembers what MIDI channel you record a sequence on and then will always play back on that channel. Question: Does this unit do the OPPOSITE; ie, can you strip MIDI info from a port?
Been using it for about 4 years already. It's been a live saver in my setup syncing up al generations of Midi gear. :)
Me too. Can’t do without.
What about modern MIDI gear with USB, do those have latency as well?
@@FuZZbaLLbee hell yes they do. I got a midi fighter twister and it has hella jitter just by itself
thank you very much for a lot of clarification Ricky!
I always enjoy watching your content man. The one thing that I've been wondering about for the longest time is, the chilled out background music that you always use...is that an arpeggiated chord? Or did you manually play the notes into your DAW with a Keystep or something? It's crazy tight man.
Great video Ricky. Yeah, the Roland SBX-1 has swing but like you said most the stuff many of us use have not only swing but really good swing!
Very cool video thanks 🙏🏼 and I love this erm is is a life saver. The price for this unit is actually compensated with a tons of hours I saved with arrangement issues.
Dude ! SO glad you’ve posted this video it’s like the universe confirming I have to buy this ! Like you , I have had ALL the same insane frustrating problems recording hardware to audio and the after tweaking nightmare ! I have considered buying this for a while but yes the price for something that doesn’t make a noise was off putting , like you, say gonna close my eyes and hit buy now after your endorsement lol keep up the great posts stay safe 😊
"don't hack me" 😄😄
Ricky, I just love your charisma 😄
This video made me think, that Ricky you could be interested in Blokas Midihub, which is a intuitively programmable 4x4 + usb midihub. Not saying it would be a replacement for what you own, but it could well suit your needs. Just got mine, which I pre-ordered/backed and just as an example here are two things I was easily able to achieve with it: I'm now able to play my Digitakt as a polyphonic sampler, with my master keyboard. I'm also able to play my Volca Drum with my master keyboard so, that all the notes are mapped to the corresponding pitch values (as for some odd reason Korg didn't make it read midi-notes out of the box...). Great video once again!
For anyone worried about this problem and don't have enormous chains of gear, check out the MIDI Solutions Quadra Thru. It's cheap and simple, I got it when I was I first building my setup to mitigate MIDI chain issues before they came up. Eventually I got an interface with enough MIDI outs but that Quadra Thru still sometimes comes in handy.
Thanks! The E-RM is nice, but I had a lot of problems with syncing from MIDI to my modular. So what worked for me to get a solidly syncing hybrid setup (DAW/MIDI/CV Eurorack), was the Eurorack module Expert Sleepers ES-3 in combination with an ES-5.
The ES-3 connects to any optical ADAT out on your existing interface, e.g. RME Fireface UCX to sync your modular to your DAW and send CV to control your modular (but there are also other Expert Sleepers modules to connect your DAW via USB, SPDIF, Audio). The working principle is the same like with the E-RM: it syncs from audio - so the latency that was introduced within the DAW is exactly compensated for, which is best if your DAW is the master.
With the additional ES-5 expansion, that is directly connected to the ES-3, I send MIDI from up to 8 independently controlled audio tracks to 8 MIDI DIN outs which connect to my MIDI gear (mono jack adapter to MIDI/DIN). This gives you independent control over up to 8 MIDI outputs + modular sync from your DAW: There is a dedicated expansion module with MIDI/DIN outputs (ESX-8MD), so you don't need the adapters, but I had the ES-5 in place, already.
With e.g. an Ableton template, you can make your live easier and start all of your hybrid projects with sync setup in place :-)
Ricky - I just learned to love that thing without owning it. You're doing a fantastic job with anything on your channel, keep it up bro. Unfortunately, I'm a bit too far to come to experience you playing live but I can get to your music and support you digitally. I'm definitely going to get an E-RM as I've got a similar hardware shh...stuff situation going on in my studio. Cheers sir, keep it up!
Quick tip about that solo channel thing.. I think, when you output the audiosignal to another output then the main output of your soundcard, you can output that audio signal and use “solo track” buttons with no problems. You’ll set that up like you would setup a sort of monitoring channel. (like dj monitoring).
Hi man! 😜 Great video as usual! I’ve had mine for several years now, and I’ve been preaching how good it is since the moment I set it up. Like you my ever growing hybrid studio has put me through the mill time and time again, but hay it’s taught me more about midi diagnostics than I ever would of done, so there’s that! 😂 Seriously though I totally agree with the price point, as it’s the most important piece of gear I own. Tried several scenarios, but settled on usb from Live to the Deluge, then dyn midi onto the Multiclock, then onto a Kenton midi thru 25, and out from there to everything apart from my 3 main synths. That lets me run the entire studio with midi from the DAW, midi controllers or the Deluge, and gives me transport control over the drums, Hydra, Iridium and Pro3, and more importantly, transport and sync control over their individual arps and internal sequencers, which is where the main delay issues seem come from in my experience so far. The Pro3 and the Matrixbrute for example were horrendously poor for keeping arps anywhere near the one without this piece of kit. In my situation at least, I use the swing setting knobs to add some groove to the drum midi chain. 😍 10/10 for the ERM Muliclock from me. 😉
Are you still running this setup? I'm trying to get back to into making music with my Deluge, Hydrasynth, some monosynths and iPad. But I guess I grew tired of the limitations and the annoyance of using a new system (to me). So are you still using this setup and does it work for you? Would I need to buy the ERM Multiclock to get the best result?
Nice! This has been a big headache for me as well. As a super nerd (by your definition) I've been working on a 19-inch module to solve the MIDI routing problem in the way that works best for me.
@Ricky Tinez HI Ricky, first of all thanks for everything you share, it's a real pleasure to watch your videos.
I just bought the erm multiclock, and i would like to know if you finally did the ultimate jitter test between Ableton and an external sequencer synced by the multiclock : i mean the one you're checking on ableton if the same audio sequence recorded on 4 differents tracks during few bars should look perfectly synced?
I think I've checked all your videos about the multiclock sync and didn't see what is to me the ultimate test.
After few test with my set up, the signal of my mpc1000 (a simple kick) doesn't look exactly synced in ableton on the four tracks i've recorded.
Okay My Kr55 drum machine and my Mpc1000 have never been so synced together but it's not perfect and i can hear little differents phasing( i mean nothing regular) when both are playing a four to the floor bassdrum.
Could you tell me more about this test i'm talking about?
Do you keep using the multiclock on your set up or you finally use the cheapest solution?
Tnanks again for all you've shared.
Was waiting for this 😁 very nice!!!
Wish I had enough synth friends to justify a homie midi port hahaha
Zeus' Penis? 😂
@@josue.guevara that took me longer than I'd like to admit to get 😄
Me too xD
Facts
Love your vibes brother! I've experienced actual physical pain trying to get my machines to make sweet love to abletons clock ha. i may have to invest in this thing. thanks for the video bro and happy sunday x
Realize that midi is serial so the different ports allow you to work parallel! I recently bought a secondhand unitor MKll, It made me very happy to have 8 midi ports all working parallel controlled by the DAW midi master Clock.
as a old dj i love the shift function on the multiclock. you can shift every channel in time til the groove is right. for you of course
Awesome video! this has been at least a year long grievance for me when i started playing live sets like four years ago.. i've been recording clock signals and sending them as audio out my SW-es3 for a year now. It's the tightest solution iv'e had and was way cheaper than the e-rm, which i really almost bought. looked amazing at the time, and more so now. this however only works because i decided to ditch all midi clocks that aren't running inside ableton. my volca sample and my 606 both are running on audio sample clocks into their analogue clock inputs. That way i can use the track delay compensation like you do. everything else is either eurorack, massive, operator or serum.
Trust is an important word in music making. If a setup you've worked on for ages suddenly shows issues, you can hit a wall creatively - even mentally at times.
Good you found a solution for that one. Although expensive, the result will definitely pay off.
In the last 16 years that I have used my setup in "hybrid mode" I have never had any issue with desyncs or offsets, cleaning up or whatever, and I have used legit anything I could get my hands on. At some point my BCR2000 was my midi interface and it worked perfectly.. Ableton Live (and I think FLStudio as well? not sure..) has seperate midi latency compensation dials on every midi in/out track that it can find. I would have several chains going and set the latency compensation for each of these chains and then all I had to worry about was the audio latency. With my crappy audio interfaces it's always been ~48 ms, so I tap that into the start offset of the samples and presto. That, at least, worked for me. I think what we can all pull from this is that it REALLY depends on what your workflow is. If your approach is much more performance/jam alike then syncing issues are much more problematic but if you sketch/compose everything it becomes no issue that something's a bit later or earlier.
Never before commented on your videos but I thought it was about time. I like the videos you make and I secretly watch them while I am supposed to work. You rock!
Ricky Tinez’s content is some of the best content on the CZcamsz
DUDE. I feel you on clocking. Plus. I really want a launchpad mouse pad!!!
Hey Ricky... great Video! Your MPC is running tight? Every singel Kick?
Being able to shuffle a TR-808 is so dope. Expensive when you don't own one, inexpensive when you do. Great vid.
Amazing product, i'm restarting my studio and this makes me reconsider using live again. Back in the day i had a super stable 8x8 parallel port midi interface, but newer PC's don't have those ports anymore so i was stuck with usb interfaces. First off, it was a creativity killer to setup the various latencies. When creating songs and just recording a 'live' mix worked, but when i wanted to track tracks no matter how carefully you setup everything micro-latencies occurred when recording killing the timing. Correcting track would be a time killer, and often ended up killing the vibe etc. such a nightmare.
I get what you are saying, its absolutlly depressing that with newer technology you get more headaches when making music. I got the Octatrack M1 about 3 years ago and it wouldnt sync with my DAW. it wasn't till I got the Multiclock that those headaches went away. great machine/
Looks great. Nice vid, thanks !
Had the E-RM Multiclock for a bit but I upgraded to the ACME-4. Having knobs for midi channel swing, fine shift, and 16th shift is invaluable.
It is amazing. This is amazing. To what you were doing, I would go DAW click to the Quadra-thru, and from there, send all the outs of the quad to the four hardware synths... an octatrack, analog rytm, and then, ... drumroll... a squarp pyramid. it serves as the sequencer for synths without sequencers... That squarp/synth clock chain from one of the quad outputs would go first into the arturia keystation midi, for its arpegiador, then out to a midi merger (same brand), and finally to the squarp input. This allowed me to have the arp of the keystation when I needed it, or just normal keys from the larger grand midi keyboard underneath it (hence the merger). But having the E-RM instead of the crude Quadra thru would be even more dope.
For the solo problem: Someone has probably mentioned it already, but if no one has: you can put a track in ‘solo safe’ mode, that way it won’t mute when any solo is pushed. Control-Click on the Solo button of the channel you want to put in Solo Safe.
You are amazing. Thank you to you and anyone else with the suggestion!
This dude is my fav CZcams music guy for sure learnt so much from this man
Excellent video. I actually found there was no latency when I have a sequence going but it’s when I play something in real time it’s when I started to notice latency.
Great video! I'm curious if it has the ability to quickly change to different tempos for each output. I'd like to be able switch some machines to half time on the fly.
I'd love to be able to justify this. I have a similar hybrid setup just with different gear. My midi gear all goes through 2x ESI M8U, usually with Akai Force as the midi master. I've a laptop and a desktop, both running Ableton with different plugins installed. For the most part I rarely have issues, the odd waver in timing but thanfully not often at all and everything usually locks in time well. I'll keep this mind though as I'm sure its absolutely rock solid.
Such a great bit of kit. I use it religiously with the Avalon and any sequencers where jitter seems to play havoc on timing. Pricey but rock solid
So is your Daw the master clock or is the ERM? Issue Im having is everything plays back in time untill I record it to Audio into Protools. Is this a different issue?
Do I have to add a blank bar for everything to catch up?
This is why we have Midi Patch Bays. Latency will always occur when you Midi In / Out / Thru from one unit to another. Connect all your Midi gear In / Out separately to a few patch bays. AMT8's or Motu MTP AV's will do it with no latency.
Exactly. That's the way to do it.
@@sK3LeTvM1 Ditto … I’m running 2 X Motu Midi Express XTs … Zero issues
Great video as always! Multi-clock looks rad. I'm curious if you can send the shuffle to din-sync devices (swing a 303?) I used to fuss with syncing and multi-tracking hardware jams but then just decided to use the DAW as a two track tape recorder. No more editing/eq-ing to death. Do a few takes, if it sounds good it sounds good. If it doesn't, move on to the next thing. I realize that doesn't work for everyone, but I gotta tell you it set me free.
Def a good approach. Alternatively you could have a look at those little din to midi sync boxes which have a shuffle knob. I have one for my 606, but the latency is pretty bad, even without a DAW, so I'm here trying to work out how to solve that and other issues!
It looks like we’re more and more looking for a more straightforward approach to music, even (especially ?) if it sounds less polished. I’m done with latency issues. I just use my synths as sample material now. I perform exclusively on the Digitakt with maybe one mono synth for more excitement. Then multitrack on Live from the digitakt, no headache. Then mixing is minimal. Just a handful of carefully picked tools for basic needs. Everything must be done quick.
this information is a discovery for me that I am new in electronic music production , you are an innovator in this time
coexistence between the digital (daw) age and the analog age, thank you very much for sharing your knowledge I follow your channel closely, regards desde Argentina (sorry me english is very rough)
The number of solutions to midi latency is as varied as the number of gear setups. Glad you got it sorted.
I’ve used a midi sport 2x2 for a long time with success and paired it with an old Roland A-880 midi patchbay to route midi to all the synths. This avoids a long thru chain.
I remember some older devices like the Yamaha A3000 sampler being sensitive to the midi channel which added latency if they were on a higher one.
The MOTU microlite also shows up as separate MIDI devices in your DAW - 5 input and output devices.
do your recordings start right on grid in ableton? this is the part i'm still trying to work out.
Yo homie, thanks so much for the video. I just watched all your videos on latency lol. So this fixes both clock and note latency? I would love to see a video where you show the result of this device working and recording/zooming into the grid to show the precision. I'm ready to pull the plug because I'm fed up lol.
learned a lot for handling many synths and devices wired around the studio 😘 Tx!!
@Ricky Tinez What about capturing the internal clock of the MPC 3000 and sending that back out for every other pass? Does the Multiclock allow you to capture the clock of external gear and allow you to add that to an audio track in your DAW? Ever heard of Innerclock System's Sync Gen 3LX?
Awesome video!
Yo! Thanks for tuning in brother! Fan of yours 🙏🏽
This is great, can I use the E-RM MIDI clock to sync a DAW or is that just a MIDI clock source
fuck, I need to step up my screen game, that wide view is nice!! Im also looking into a money pit, euro rack gear lol, specifically the cre8 nifty case with chip tune and a weird sequencer! love your channel, thanks for all the knowledge Ricky tinez !
You are on the right "track" Ricky.. There is a reason studio's have expensive clocks to sync everything. Not only for midi but even more if you use multiple audio interfaces. You could also use a low budged tactic. If it sounds good it's good don't zoom in on the waveforms!
Sometimes my lazy ass just considers that ... use the PC as a multitrack tape machine. Just play all the rest of the parts live over the beat. So what if it's not on the grid - as long as you're not editing based on the grid.
But then you have to worry about plugins being synced to the beat too ... and then you're kind of limited/have to work extra hard to start moving things around. It would be "nicer" just to have perfect sync, but hey, when they recorded to tape they had no damn grid and I'm pretty sure all of the classic hiphop albums sound fine!
I use an expert sleepers usamo which does the same thing but with only one midi output clock is tight but my question is do you need to still right click every clip you record in to ableton and set start 1.1 here then adjust the loop end point which is a PITA ! ?
I mate ! Thanx for your video, very useful for me.
I just have a question at 10.45 you say that you only use the mid out port 2 for all the gear you use usually,
So how did you configure the latency for each individually while they are plugged into the same port on the ERM?
Thanx
Love the Sound of your Keyboard man! Btw will get the E-Rm too. One question was if it will transport MIDI CC AND Clock. you answered that so this is a safe buy...with my eyes closed off course :-)
It is not only about latency. I work with Logic Pro X and it´s midi-clock comes at the end in the computer processing hierarchy. So there you have additionally to deal with a very wonky/jittery clock especially the more happens in the arrangement. With the concept of ERM-MC using sample accurate audio-clock you are getting a very stable clock-timing. Now I have a very tight and stable grooving analog-DAW-kombination. Yes it was hard to spend 500 bugs for it. But at the moment the only way to fix this profound timing-problem. Thank you Ricky for this video!
is it easy to sync up different instruments with the time shift option? How would you do it? Record the stuff and align the clocks by comparing the recorded audio tracks? Or is it possible by ear?
I‘m wondering about the reliability of the Overbridge-clock, as my Rytm is the master for the rest of my hardware setup - Ricky do you still use your Elektron gear?
Glad I found your channel you make how to make sense, I have a question about the MPC 4k can it factory reset? I just bought one out the pawnshop & I want a clean slate like new, Any help Rick would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks!
Hi Ricky I have been intrigued to watch you following pretty much exactly the same journey as me over the past couple of years.... After your latest two videos I thought I would start to connect with you. I was thinking about the soundcraft but finally went for the Mackie onyx 1640i which will soon have the post fade mod. I have had no problems with midi until I tried to sync my set up with logic then the nightmare began. Looking for a solution I have been considering ERM Multi clock.. I use mpc live to sequence all my gear and I am hoping that the new 2.8 firmware is going to solve all my problems without shelling out for the multi clock. The question I have for you is what part of your set up is providing your swing? I am assuming the mpc 3000 right? Are you noticing the daw changing the groove you are getting from the mpc when you are all synced up? Please try a heavily swung groove on the mpc alone and then synced and report back with the results. I am producing NY style House music and the mpc swing is very important to me. Big love from the UK
I've never had any luck using ableton midi clock with external keyboards. It's always a little bit too late or little way too late. Gave up. 😑 I love it when you back track cuz got hiped up saying good things about it. Makes me realize there's still ppl who gives honest reviews out there. 👍
Always a pleasure to see your videos man! I got mine today so who better to check out than you I don't know man! Cheers!
I don’t know how you manage with the chains, sir! Glad ERM solved it for you. I find it easier to isolate the units on ports and use midi interfaces and the DAW to do the clock orchestration. I occasionally use channels routing over ethernet, but I try to keep the architecture as straightforward as possible. Cheers, Daniel
I am still confused on where and when this device can take effect.
Using my DAW as the sequencer for external cear, does the Multiclock effect "timing" in the MIDI-communication?
To get this right - when adding 50ms of track delay in Live I'll be able to use negative values on the Multiclock. But this also means any audio plays back 50ms later which kills any real time performance using instruments right?
Thank you for your thoughts. Obviously, you don't have too much sluggish and/or jittery MIDI gear around or gear with different sluggishness. If that would be the case, a tight clock cannot help, because the latency does not come from the clock, but from the MIDI latency and jitter from the devices themselves. I wonder, if your setup just cuts off some of the inbuilt MIDI latency for your hardware devices instead of coming them in late for this same amount of MIDI latency. So the click isn't tighter itself, but the delay doesn't disturb you so much anymore. In some Keyboard magazine issue from the 90s, there was an exhaustive comparison of MIDI latency and jitter for different devices - some workstations with up to 30 ms MIDI response plus irregular bidirectional jitter of aditional 10-15 ms and this not being a constant, but dependent on voice usage and MDI controller use as well. This would be something you cannot fix with a tight clock, but you can set a predelay, if you know the typical MIDI delay of your particular device. Fortunately, MPCs are quite tight and most modern gear is too.