Quest for Feel: Finding the Perfect Tennis Racquet
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Hunting for a racquet which fulfills my newfound need for "feel" has led me to a company that flies under the radar: Prokennex. Very impressed and intrigued by the history and technology!
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⏱️TIMESTAMP⏱️
00:00 Intro
01:55 Disorienting Experience
03:46 Recent Racquet Switch Was...
06:29 Parallel Drilling vs Small Grommets
07:43 Direct Tennis
08:22 Coffee Shoutout
09:05 Blade 104 Conclusions
12:58 Sweet Deals, Fun Facts
6:45 I watched too many of your videos to get this wrong 😅
You definitely go into the most detail when it comes to gear which is why your videos are the most interesting to watch.
a true fan haha. I'm glad my madness speaks to some! I appreciate you knowing me on that level.
Yes, the various sounds you hear at contact without dampeners is information/feedback, not just noise.
Agree! You can put them into better context with experience as well but I hear it less than I feel it, if that makes sense. Which I'm actually glad about, the sound might bug me a little. It was my whole reason for using a dampener in the first place.
Unrelated to the video however I was watching your reviews on the Wilson shift and I’m wondering if there coming out with a V2 this year. Thanks
I'm wondering too! No idea lol.
I've usually found that variances in vibrational feedback come from grommets either broken or not laid or bedded properly.
That can probably be a factor but in my case, I was very thorough to check that wasn't the case.
Do you think broken or not bedded means better or worse feel? Or just different haha
@@time410s Haha ... certainly different with regards to the frequency of the vibration feedback
Is the extended length or size less tennis elbow friendly than a typical 100 sq inch offering? Most of the time I've read that it is inadvisable to go with a longer racquet, but is a larger head any better for TE? Any thoughts on their other offerings like the Q+ or Ki? I, too, want small grommets now :P lol
I'm glad the advise discourages longer length for TE. I would imagine that not being a good idea.
Head size...hard to say how much it matters either way. I think the other variables of spec matter much more. You could argue the stability you get from a larger head, or the extra power, could save the arm a bit of stress. The free stability is self explanatory and the extra power might mean you have to work a little less for the same power, allowing the arm to be slightly less strained.
Small grommets for the win! I've tried a majority of the racquets from them now. I also really like the Black Ace Pro. It's a bit softer, still pretty open pattern, smaller head. Extremely competitive with the likes of Head Prestige or even the Yonex Percept stuff. I would choose this over those.
Ki, it's alright. The Q+ is good too but I like the more open pattern of this model these days.
Great stuff man! Love the production 😊 and Thanks for the shoutout!
Thank you! See you on court soon. Ya got me good on that lil' slice haha.
Is your vision of feel dependent on the frame itself or the inner workings such as string and their tensions? I know that stringing somewhere in the region of sub-40 lbs. gives a lot of ball pocketing sensations. I think it would be very hard to find frames that have a lot of vibration without looking at old models. Without outliers like ProKennex, there really isn't that much of allowing more vibrations from other brands.
My vision? It's blurred by a combination of there being a bit more to explore as well as some really disorienting experiences that would throw anyone for a loop, which I mentioned with the Head Extremes.
I would agree that lower tensions seem to offer a lot more feel. That is consistently true in my experience.
I wonder if it's all relative to thickness of string or size of head or string pattern. Like, would 40lbs in an otherwise identical frame give you more or less feel when comparing a 16x19 to an 18x20? I'd rather string that low in the denser pattern because it would be less launchy.
Ok so now I'm going to try this out. For me it was the sound of the racquet that I wasn't into but now I'm going to focus on the feel without the dampener in and see how that goes.
Awesome! My reasons were the same. But I have forgotten about the sound and genuinely don't notice it. I think it's less noticeable than you'd think and even so, you start to tune it out.
Give yourself a chance to tune it out just so you can try a different setup and set of priorities and see if you prefer it after making a little effort to adjust. You can always go back!
@@time410s I use an old Aluminum ProKennex Jr Ace Pro Power Contour in Red and Blue As Yellow and black color of same exact model were moving to a 4 inch grip, where all I do is fix the failing grip on model so I have a thin layer of black cloth athletic/hockey tape in a wide barely overlapping spiral after first wrap and Loctite ultra Gel Control (waterproof) on lower near end cap as tape in is open so I keep tape from coming undone where grip used for basically a grip covering on failing stock grip. Now the reason I use and in 2023 bought 2 more as well off e-Bay sellers as recently in 2024 I am now waiting for another racquet is 2 reasons, 1st in 2000's is how stiff strings were in 2000's from other Jr racquet which were very sloppy smaller kids models or crappy qualiy control and now how being 5 foot 2 inch/157.5 cm with my weight 107--110 pounds/48--49 kilograms. Only other thing I did to my original racquet from 2002-2003 is in 2020 add a thin layer of mat spray paint on to keep specific racquets paint from coming off anymore as my original racquet was having small flakes of paint come off around 2020. So even if I did not use my current model, I would be looking for a Jr model probably an old Ace Pro Jr 25 inch long Jr Pro Silver Ace model in Aluminum or a Copper Ace Jr becuse these 2 models I can find multiple on e-Bay easier then other brands Jr models.
I usually dont use a dampener cause when I tried em they seem to make the sweetspot stiff and jarring as well as limit the vibrational feedback I get from the racquet. I think that luxilon string that was in your blade 104 was the alu power in green. Even though you swear by using toroline and restring products since those give you the qualities that you desire the most, I found that luxilon strings give the best feel. I usually use toroline strings in Babolat and Yonex racquets, but in my head prestiges I like using 4g 1.25 to maintain the purity of feel.
It might have been green if it was more like that tennis-ball yellow/green. It was definitely not Hyper G green but kind of neon green/yellow.
I did get shockingly great feel in my PAVS that one time and Actually very good feel in the BA105 with Ether and Wasabi X. And just seeing how much things can vary made me question what qualities matter most, after the string, and how much the string matters.
Still hard to say but I can say that I was able to get great feel with my strings of choice on a few occasions.
Which I hope can continue to be the case because everything else breaks so soon for me. Snapback is the only thing keeping them alive so long in my string-bed and the added benefit is more spin! It's hard to walk away from that.
If I can get enough feel, I'll be more than happy. So far, I think I've been able to but still need to experiment a bit more with this racquet. Initial results and some after have all been promising.
Were the 2 extremes same grip size? The thicker more dampening.
I know you are now anti shockie but different shaped on different drill patterns make a HUGE difference!
They were. Same grip size, same base grip! I promise I was very thorough in how I observed the differences haha.
The twistweight of the BA105 is listed as 16.0, does it feel sluggish at all? Especially on serve I’d wonder
Hmmm well I think TW has an old and inaccurate way of measuring. Mine reads around 14.5 and I put a little weight there. I wonder if all their measurements would look relatively accurate if I measured the same racquets a newer way. Some read the same as mine and many are quite off. I can't trust their TW listings to mean much, unfortunately.
So, no, I wouldn't say it feels sluggish.
I'm sure a very high twistweight can feel sluggish in a different way than swingweight would affect but I like this where it's at and might play with a slightly higher number as I tweak this.
@@time410s Thanks for getting back so quickly. 14.5 is pretty close to perfect, makes me more tempted to give it a go. Otherwise looking at the Ki Q+5X Pro (the extended yellow one) as those specs looks fantastic too
You're welcome! It was good timing lol. How do you measure yours?
Yeah there's also no way that any quality control discrepancy that would happen between me and a tennis warehouse one would cause a 1.5 difference in twist weight measure. That would be absolutely massive. It has to come down to the difference in the way it is being measured.
I also used that racket for a little while. It was towards the end of my extended racket phase. Not sure I did any content on it directly but it is in a couple of my videos.
I prefer the black ace now for sure but I would like the head size of the black ace to be more like that Q5. Otherwise I appreciate the more open string pattern. Spin is comparable to my dunlops this way. Those Q5s were much more dense. But maybe that's your style!
@@time410snah I love my spin. Have you served much with this racket? It’s my most important shot but I know you like baseline hitting a lot
A bit! Several tie breaks and a few sets. Only had this maybe a month or so.
Kicks are good, flats are killer. Haven't really hit a ton of slice serves recently for some reason but I should test it out. Baseline spin is very good, though! Might be a touch less than my dunlops but only like 9/10 if the dunlop is 10/10. I can live with that. But 8/10 I'd probably be unsatisfied.
This racquet more than makes up for a slight dip in spin (honestly hard to say if it actually gets less, stay tuned for a string pattern comparison) by having superior control of power and better touch/feel. Also more stable in stock form.
I wish I liked the iphone, but I could not do it. Great video! Your journey is interesting.
Ha, I always resented them for being so unadjustable and locked in to their brand only accessories. Now, all the smartphones have non removable batteries and no headphone port.
I still don't think I'd go to iPhone though. The software is still very rigid.
Thank you! I see why you said that haha. I'm enjoying the journey and find it interesting as well.
Have you ever tried the Pro Labs series from Wilson? I have the PS95 v13 and v14 with fairway leather grip, round wilson dampener, lead at 12, 9 and 3, amazing sticks with amazing feel.
I believe they put foam inside the frame, wich give the impression they are denser than commecial raquets and the vibration are super smooth, like some crispy butter😁
I use Confidential 1.20, 23/22 kg and it works preatty good in the dense 18x20 string pattern.
You can hit any shot with that beast and the feedback is the best i know.
I have but it has been a while and not since I've been hyper aware of 'feel'
@@time410s you should try them again. Maybe the Blade Pro or Ultra Pro 18x20 for you, the more strings the more feel 😉
I just might! I recall them not getting the spin I was hoping for but it was about what I expected. I have hit with the H19/H22 quite a lot about a year before these "pro" models came out.
I think the layups and QC standard are different, as well as the resins used but it's hard to know for sure but I think they felt better.
@@time410s The H19 is the Ultra Monfils "was" using i believe and the H22 is the Tsytsipas/Kashanov one, super hard sticks too use i've heard, the pro labs are easier to play i think.
These are not spin friendly frames for sure, but with proper technique and a thin gage shaped string like Tour bite or Confidential at low tension, you can generate big amount of spin.
Just need the proper technique and athleticism required ;)
I recall the h19 and 22 being quite soft but these pro stocks are just molds. The flex and layups can change a lot from one to another.
Indeed, you can get good spin with all the complimentary stuff but it'll never be as much as if it were a more open pattern in the same racquet. Like nothing you do for those will make it as spin friendly as the SX300s if you did the same setups. Side by side, all other things equal, it will fall very short of the spin potential of a spin dedicated racquet.
I wish that were not the case but it is and I have tried very hard to close the gap as much as possible and have seen the limitations of doing so.
It has forced me to acknowledge the reality of the string pattern and spin relationship.
In previous years, I would have believed it was rather closable but it isn't.
Would this really be a factor in control as the average travel time for nerve information from the hand to the brain is 10-20 milliseconds. Then add another 3 ms for the brain to process then 10 ms to send control signals back to the hand, arm, shoulder. That's about 33 ms tops. However, the average dwell time for a ball on the string bed is ~5 ms for tighter strings on pro rackets. This is why personally I prefer less vibration as the information provided by the vibration is too late for my brain to be of any use. Maybe this is just what we're used to?
Well yes because it's not about feeling it in the moment but feeling it as feedback for what happened so you can adjust for the next shot. It allows for a deeper understanding of what happened and can apply almost immediately after it happened.
So it doesn't directly affect "control" but contributes to your sense of it.
I wish you didn’t tell me about parallel drilling and small grommets lol can’t stop noticing it now
Ha, I'm spreading the curse! I'm actually glad to know. It helps me filter a lot of racquets out and I think it matters more than people appreciate. The only reason it didn't but me was because I never noticed...kinda curious how many would be bothered if they notice haha.
Sorry. Did your main racquet have that?
@@time410s lol I actually am glad to notice and pay attention to that detail now as well. I’m fairly new to tennis so I picked a tennis racket that felt good and pleased me aesthetically for a decent price. I ended up picking up two 2019 vcore pro 100’s and they do lack parallel drilling and small grommets (from what I can tell lol). If/when I change up I will probably apply those criteria to filter out some rackets too!
I believe those only have parallel drilling and large grommets, which is the most frustrating combo for me haha. I really like Yonex as a company but even looking past all that, I mesh better with other brands at this time, which is lucky because if Yonex hit best for me I'd be struggling to look past all that.
I should make a video about the racquets which meet my small grommets/parallel drilling criteria haha.
Lower string tension. Simple.
That does always seem to correlate with more feedback. Do you think would would work on denser patterns without being too launchy?
Feel is coming more from strings instead of frame.
Any thoughts on why the identical Heads with same string and tension felt nothing alike?
Dude, you are hitting way too good/big/fast to play with grandma’s light 105 racket 😂 After hitting with hundreds of rackets over last 20+ years I’ve settled on an oldie Yonex RDiS 100 Mid. IMO the best frame to hit one-handed backhand ever. No wonder Mr. Wawrinka uses a stick pretty similar in specs. Try RDiS 100 Midplus (easier to find and more maneuverable than Mid) if you get a chance and you’ll be surprised by feel, perfect specs and heavy ball this racket lets you generate!
Using the RDiS 100 then you must be the great grandmother 🤭.
@@sadiemellow LOL partially true, grandfather kind of! Still swinging 93sq in stick with 355g static 335SW pretty fast and efficient 😉Thing is, if you are searching for the best “feel”, you are not going to find it in one of currently available frames (all have tons of dampening).
Ha, I think in a short or maybe even this video, I say that my perfect version of this would be a little smaller of a headsize. That being said, my BA105 is about 345 grams and 330 swingweight. I've added plenty of weigth on it. Maybe I should mention this when the racquet comes up. I'm just so used to weighing up racquets that for me it goes without saying but I should still say it. How else would one know?
@@time410s the best thing about old school Yonex-es like RDiS 100 is that you don't really need any modding and 99.9% of the frames will come right on spec not only for weight and balance but also SW. You won't have the case like you had with Head Speed then one racket has absolutely no feel as compared to another. I got 5x RDiS 100 Mids of eBay from different sellers and all of them are nearly identical!
I wonder if QC was tighter then and why.
Uh oh Dr325i and VSBabolat are going to come after you for talking bad about head
Haha I had to look into these names. Are they legends of the TW talk tennis forums?
@time410s self proclaimed legends 🤭
When I searched for one, the other came up right away.
We are witnessing here, in these videos, the ramblings of a tennis racquet-aholic, type-A, madman. Seriously do we need a half dozen jump cuts to get one thought out. And let's be honest, you are moving on to a new racquet before ever needing to replace worn grommets. Let's see match play with these sticks.
"tennis racquet-aholic" is this how you would speak to an alcoholic displaying a behavioral problem or dysfunction? My favorite is when people come up in the comments saying something like I have a problem, in an insulting way. As if to signal to me this is exactly how they would speak to someone with an actual problem.
Pretty obvious that some people just don't think much before they speak.
I don't feel like it's a problem. Everyone has passion come out in different ways. I don't need to adjust my content or how I come off for some critic that doesn't even understand or appreciate the way in which I understand and appreciate tennis. This comment is very "I enjoy tennis differently than you and therefore your way of enjoying it is wrong"
There is no right or wrong here. Just what is and this is how I enjoy tennis.
Why don't you try playing with 2 forehands and see if you enjoy getting out on court every day to get better. And make time to work that side out. Switch to left hand for eating and brushing teeth. Not your thing? We're not the same. At all. Yet that is the path I am on and I am sticking to.
You do you.
@@time410s Some thought went into my comment. The point being, that you have way too many thoughts going on. Seemingly, overthinking, over analyzing the smallest of details. The suggestion to show us match play is for the fact that wins and losses will ultimately, unequivocally dictate if a racquet is best for you (along with prevention of injury).
Similarly, you are overthinking how I am coming at you. As if I would equate enjoying trying new frames with a devastating disease that destroys lives! Racqaholic is pretty common lexicon and is not meant to hurt your feelings.
I view this channel as primarily a youtube performance. To that end, I guess you are doing something right.
I don't really play matches. I just don't care to. I think a good number of people get that and I don't even have match footage on my channel. I find a match to often be incredibly boring to be honest.
It's not my thing. And at what point would my match play meaningfully express the racquet is good for me? After a bunch of them? After months of adjusting and finding the right tension?
I don't think it's as useful as a proxy as one might imply unless that is what they do often, play matches.
That, again, isn't me. Having two forehands wasn't a decision I made to win more matches but I still think it was best for me.
What's best for me... Who is the decider of what that is as well as what proves it? That's also a very personal decision.
So how does the obsessive and overthinking guy with two forehands and doesn't care to play matches figure out what racquet is best for him?
@@time410s I hear you. Here in Milwaukee I find interesting that most of the guys in my tennis community always want to play sets whereas I miss having hitting partners just to bang away and get a tough work out.
The theme of the quest for "the one" / "my racquet" sounds off for you. "My ultimate quiver includes..." might be appropriate approach to your content. You might also want to explore why you don't like competition. There is expansive challenge psychologically and physically to tennis to transfer the great-in-practice player over to great in match play.
Of coarse, you do you... Whether it is tennis or performing in front of the camera.
My abrupt approach was to get your attention. I hope in the very least you will attempt to practice organizing your thoughts for your viewers so they will flow out easily without the need to cut and splice your video a hundred times.
All the best.
Well, like your comment was designed to get attention, maybe my title is as well. I can only say so much in a title.
I don't think it's inaccurate. My criteria keeps evolving and so the search continues. It's not my goal to be forever searching but perhaps goalposts continue to move. Couldn't tell ya.
And we'll see about the flow of future content. It works for me. If I have an audience, I assume it's because it works for them as well.
I don't plan to change too much about how I do things here for now. I just plan to upload a bit more often and consistently and through that process, I'll get better at doing whatever it is I'm doing here.