Deseret News - See "Social Justice As A Religion"
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Jacob Hess and C D Cunningham have written an article in the Deseret News on why it is important to see Critical Social Justice as a new religion. While I have stated for years that this IS a new religion, there are some dicey points made that need to be discussed.
I am joined by Jacob Hess to discuss his article. Does an "interfaith" approach work with this kind of ideology? How does this play out in the church?
Here is the Deseret News Article - www.deseret.com/opinion/2023/...
Find more great content from Jacob Hess at his substack, "Publish Peace" here - jacobzhess.substack.com/
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#CwicShow #lds
Enlightening. Thank you both
This has been a powerful conversation! Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Extremely enlightening! I agree that this was your best show ever.
This is SUCH a good conversation, Greg. I love this episode.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This episode will partially become my next talk on the school board meeting. Thank you!! You guys nailed it
Christians need a reawakening . It's sad to see how malleable we have become as a group. PBD just did an episode on this. Catholics and Jews are most woke but even though LDS are near the bottom of the list next to Islam, I still see so many deceived in our church.
I totally agree with your perspective!
I fear there will be many casualties. I pray I'm not one of them stay vigilant
So good! Thank you. ❤️ I love treating this as another religion so that there can at least be awareness of the conversion to this new religion because most people have converted and don’t know they have.
Well said, that being said, we can be careful as I think is it incumbent on us to turn "the moral mirror" upon ourselves.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in many ways, has a married of similarities to the social justice movement. This is because it is largely based on feelings and not facts.
Steven Pinker hints at the intersection of politics and religion, suggesting a world where ideologies and belief systems aren't confined solely to spiritual matters but extend into our societal and political views as well. The rise of the social justice movement and its mirroring of religious doctrine reinforces this.
"Left-wing and right-wing political ideologies have themselves become secular religions, providing people with a community of like-minded brethren, a catechism of sacred beliefs, a well-populated demonology, and a beatific confidence in the righteousness of their cause." - Steven Pinker.
The comparison of politics to religion lies in the shared propensity towards faith, feelings, and fervor. In this context, faith refers not to an explicit belief in a higher power, but to the conviction that one's political values and ideological leanings are the "correct" ones, an unquestioning belief often not based on empirical data or factual evidence but rather on deeply rooted sentiments and communal norms.
Religions are typically based on dogma, or a set of principles accepted without proof. They invoke emotional resonance, shared narratives, and communal bonds. The followers of these belief systems derive not just a sense of purpose but also community and camaraderie, often choosing to embrace feelings over facts.
The same can be seen in modern politics, where ideological adherence often supersedes objective reality. Both right and left-wing political ideologies act as secular religions. They have their dogmas, their demons, and their saints. They provide not just a worldview but also a sense of identity and purpose, creating echo chambers where feelings often take precedence over facts.
As Ben Shapiro famously stated, "facts don't care about your feelings", emphasizing the importance of rationality and evidence over sentiment. However, it's equally crucial to remember the converse - feelings don't care about facts. This is evident in religious observances such as kosher dietary restrictions, a practice not grounded in scientific reasoning but upheld due to faith and tradition.
The contemporary social justice movement, similarly, seems to operate more like a religion than a political ideology. Its adherents often uphold narratives and principles based on personal feelings and anecdotal experiences, rather than relying purely on empirical data. This doesn't devalue their claims; instead, it underscores the complexities of human behavior and belief systems.
In conclusion, just as religion is feelings-based, so too are our political ideologies and social movements. As humans, we are often story and narrative-driven creatures, influenced more by our emotions and personal experiences than by cold, hard facts. This is not a flaw but rather an inherent part of our humanity. It's what allows us to empathize with others, to form communities, and to fight passionately for what we believe in. As long as we remember to balance this emotional depth with a respect for truth and evidence, we can use it to create a more compassionate, equitable society.
I thought religion was good and we ought to foster interfaith relationships like Mormons do with Muslims
I agree. Thank you
15:36 THIS is a GOOOD quote. Is INIQUITY the problem or INEQUITY. God says it is iniquity.
Fantastic gave me a bit of hope that we'll weather this storm
Love often does require offending people for their own good, any good parent knows this and practices it with imposing boundries on their young kids that upset them. Those who hate the truth will find the truth hateful. When you stand for truth and are met with hate, that is not a sign that you are in the wrong, or that you failed in some way. Christ was hated and he was perfect, the apostles were hated, modern apostles are hated. The hate of others can in many cases be a badge of honor, as long as we did not act in a way to provoke it by being unkind.
What I see happening in other religions and in political organizations is standing for what is right but doing so in the wrong way, without love, without charity. This will be counterproductive, and they will pay a price for it no matter what gains they feel they make. Pres Nelson has called us to follow a better way and not join the verbal violence of our day.
Well said.
24:00 - Even Christ couldn't convert the hardhearted.
Great conversation, much needed.
I see this as a modern day example of the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture. This is a great discussion. Thx.
Thank you so much
You're most welcome
I’m blown away at the clarity and level of thought here. Thank you for sharing this video.
that's the objective here! Thank you!
Wow, great interview.
Thank you!
Thank you for focusing on the gospel of RESENTMENT. It is so dangerous and pervasive. Not only the Lamanites, but every fallen people forsook repentance for resentment.
Really Good Perspective 🤔 I Appreciate A Healthy Conversation 🗝 Pure Truth & Love Matter . Thank You !
Wow, super good way think about this illness.
It’s not illness it’s Baal Worship in the form of Ashtoreth worship. It’s what Elijiah fought. Israel has always battled it.
This has been so useful to me.
One of the best discussions I've heard on the topic. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I honestly don’t know how to approach or push back against the social justice religion with charity and no contention. People tell me I have a calm demeanor but I certainly don’t FEEL calm.
Really, really good video, Greg. Thank you
Appreciate that. We need so much discussion on this topic. We need crystal clear clarity.
I struggle with the line between being "kind" and standing for truth. I often turn to the New Testament for examples given by Jesus Christ of loving reproof and forthrightness. Wasn't He forthright and direct at times and yet at others was very compassionate and soft. He tried to use parables and stories at first but when that was beyond the hard-hearted He became very direct. Christ was not afraid to tell the Pharasies that they were hypocrites. He knew where the lline was perfectly, but I struggle to find that line. Wrong is wrong, right is right. The rebellious will seldom become humble enough to accept the right when they are so filled with hate and anger. Now on the other side of the coin, God is patient, tolerent, longsuffering and gentle enough to allow the rebellious to suffer the consequence of their own choices. His hand is always extended, but He has shown that he will not force upon His children the blessings He has for them.
If your focus is on what Christ was doing was addressing the way the church was treating the members and Gentiles. Christ sat with the “sinners” who were active in the church while the church pointed out He shouldn’t be associating with those kind. Honestly, Christ didn’t teach lessons on how to live or what to say or not say or do or not do He taught how we should treat one another. When we love, people change and through that change they keep all the rules that the church members we’re hyper focused on pointing out. Just a thought🤷♂️
I love this. Thank you for this episode.
You're welcome!
Yeah. Laman and Lemuel, the original social justice warriors.
😂 so true! Very similar spirit. Selfishness at the root... 🥺
I thought that was an interesting connection too!
It's not just Isaiah's prophecies that will be easily understood in the last of the last days, but everything in The Book of Mormon. Laman and Lemuel are so OBVIOUS now that there is a latter day comparison.
The answer to your question, Greg, about how to handle the SJ converts within the Church is simple, and it is another area where truly recognizing SJ as the religion it is clarifies things. In other words, how do we already handle believers of other religions? The SJ believers should be handled/treated identically to that.
Members of any religion are welcome to attend Church services. They are welcome ask questions, and so on. Of course, they are not asked to fill callings, or to speak officially in Church worship meetings, but they might be invited as guest speakers for non-worship meetings, and so on.
As you say also, recognizing that SJ is a religion really does clarify pretty much everything, including how to deal with most, if not all issues surrounding it.
This may be my favorite conversation on your show ever! Thank you Greg and Jacob!
of course it's a religion! "Do you believe in Global Warming?" "Are you Woke?" the questions and answers are faith based! I really liked jacobs example in the BofM of the people getting angry. The Woke religion lives on anger, being offended, and indignation.
Is it equity or iniquity, the most pernicious evil of our time! Great distinction and probably the best description of the difference between religions!
Thank you Greg for sharing Jacob and his insights with us! I count Jacob as a friend and have loved his great heart and mind for many years! Greg, you are also a great thinker! Horray for both of you and your commitment to the Savior! Keep up the good work! ❤
This conversation really makes me think on the premortal council in Heaven. Lucifer makes some interesting remarks that you can see reflected in the world today:
“I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost.” This is his plan. Complete “equity” and a focus on not a single soul being lost. Yes, agency would have to be ultimately removed, but it was for the greater “good” of mankind. Perhaps he was focused on a supreme sense of “victimization” by the Father’s plan, which inevitably had the potential of some souls being lost. But he was going to champion those souls- none would be lost.
“Give me thine honor.” Satan convinced himself that he knew better than God our Father. He was lifted up in his own pride and even false sense of superiority and self-righteousness. He saw (clearly, in his mind) a better way. It would simply take the Father yielding all His power and plan over to him.
“I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the the congregation, in the sides of the north.” There would be no fall, redemption or atonement under his plan. He would remove this need. In so doing, souls would not be uplifted, but rather all would be the exact same. No deviation, no independence, no creativity and choice. All the same. All equitable. Further, there would be no Judgement. All will make it. Yet, Satan himself would “ascend into Heaven, and be like the most high.” No judgement for himself also. Everyone perfectly accepted just as they are, with no means or reason for actual growth.
Just fascinating to have my eyes more opened to see parallels in the ideology of the world today.
Very well said. It does seem like the pattern continues!
It's the Rameumpton
For the Strength of Youth magazine, February 2023:
Anatomy of a Peacemaker by David A. Edwards ...last point is this: Persuasion. Good people are looking for truth. Listen to them. Ask them thoughtful questions. Use truth such as, my experience has been...; I have found that...; What has worked for me is...
Truth will cut its own way to the pure in heart.
I joined the “Inclusion and Diversity” committee at work and I was drawn to it because one of the leads said that it was about me being an individual with a unique background and experience and that therefore “I am diverse.”
Yet it quickly turned into the critical social justice hierarchies and “lenses.” One would think I would welcome this as a gay man. Yet it all felt so “off” to me.
And one facilitator was talking about intentional actions regarding immutable characteristics because it’s “the right thing to do.” Like this is all some baseline morality we’re all supposed to go along with.
Greatest podcast ever. Thank you. 👍
GREAT program as always!!!! The frustrating thing to me is and the question I have is WHY CAN’T OUR LEADERS TALK LIKE YOU????!!!! I would argue they used to but now it really feels like they bend over backwards to add not just a spoon full of sugar but maybe like the whole bag of sugar to the messaging to help the medicine go down. I rant and rave about wanting the likes of Pres Benson back who would unapologetically use the “ism” words and call out the names of those that were polluting and deceiving. Yes he was reprimanded at times, but he kept going. I really feel a disdain for the likes of him on the hierarchy today. Our crazy relationships with organizations like the UN that were once called out for who they are as true evil makes no sense to me. Embracing the communist founded naacp and the marxist Amos Brown… (which by the way you need to watch the documentary Uncle Tom and Uncle Tom 2 that really lay out the truth about the civil rights movement and show the difference between Du Bois and his opposite Booker T Washington). We need to educate the members of our Church so they don’t continue down the false deceptive teddy bear Jesus route. Just wish the leadership could/would do that better. It really feels sometimes like we’re trying to serve the Lord without offending the devil.
I have to believe they see things I don’t. Perhaps as things get worse their messaging will change. But there is a clear delineation between representing the church and speaking as a member (me for example). There are things members can say that the Brethren can’t. Not today anyway.
@@CwicShow doesn’t have to be from general conference…. Why can’t it be in our manuals and curriculum etc?
@@mrmod123 Maybe we are on the cusp of "God preaching His sermon" which is a time that all people will be brought to their knees. I too have wanted a good "call a spade, a spade" sermon but populations are being sifted and maybe that's just what this time period is. Having studied East Germany and how the church members lived, worked, secretly met in the house church's, and the members of the church quietly went about their business, even getting permission to go to West Germany one at a time to attend the temple. Extraordinary. So as the wickedness increases, parents need to teach clear boundaries at home and we all batten down the hatches and pray for the second coming. Because I think that's what time it is.
Very well said, I couldn't agree more.
@@CwicShowI'm so grateful that you are using your platform responsibly. Thanks, Greg. There are millions suffering in silence.
Profound insights. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Cain is the original social justice member and the founder.
What he stood for were the marginalized from God because he wouldn't get equal blessings and authority as Able did.
This jealousy, resentment, vanity, greediness, laziness, and so on, are the bricks that built his alter of hate towards God and towards Able.
Cain's line of thinking was why would Able be his brother to look after and to love and respect and to even emulate? He wanted the same thing for far, far less, and murdered his own brother for it.
And this is still happening to this day.
It IS a religion, whether they want to call it that or not. In fact, I would go so far as to say it is a cult.
Excellent
Thanks
This young man is very observant and hits the nail on the head. We are seeing the winnowing, the separation of the wheat from the chaff. I have no doubt that at least 50% of the members in the US will leave the church and I'm being generous with that number. It may be as high as 75%.
Yep
Great and clear. Charity must to be excersice following the Lord guideline.
Yeah, unfortunately it’s close to home too. It’s happening to everyone, Bishop’s families, Stake President’s families, everyone’s families has people leaving the church, and so then we must all figure out how to navigate these relationships when so much of what we do together has been in the past based on our shared experiences in the gospel. It just becomes a lot more basic. We continue to love, but we don’t feel as close, and that’s the challenge, because we mourn that closeness that we’ve lost with our family members.
Love how you help to expand the way people think. Your a great example for how conversations need to occur in our society. This is a great example of how we can have discourse with the help of Christlike love.
Thank you for that!
It's not just a metaphor. It's reality. It is their religion. Not only does this reduce their power, but it increases grace and Christian charity in response to it.
19:19 There is an episode of Yes Prime Minister in which Sir Humphrey Appleby teaches Barnard Woolley about forced polls to get you get the "correct" answer.
This is what we need to here.
Greg, What you and Jacob are discussing about is a modern device called Bulverism. C. S. Lewis coined the phrase. The idea comes from his essay “‘Bulverism’: or, the Foundation of 20th Century Thought.” He explains, “The modern method is to assume without discussion that (the person) is wrong and then his attention from this (the only real issue) by busily explaining why he is so silly.”
Here is the method:
“Assume your opponent is wrong and then explain his error, and the world will be at your feet.”
From “C. S. Lewis: A Companion and Guide”
On the other hand,
“If you attempt to prove that he is wrong or (worse still) try to find out whether he is wrong or right, and then the national dynamism of our age will thrust you to the wall.”
CS Lewis is great!
These thoughts are worth sharing with our kid's! I appreciate this conversation. Thank you.
I found this to be a great explanation of what is happening and I finally feel like I have a way to explain how I feel after watching this. Thank you, both!
If you read the descriptions in the Book of Mormon and the New Testament you will see that love is demonstrated by actions and behaviors. Part of that is "rejoicing not in iniquity but rejoicing in truth". And also a "religion" does not have to include God to be a religion. Religion at its most basic form is simply strict adherence to a dogma.
Adding yet another comment…I think the “perfect the way you are” does hold at least some water when it comes to living in the now and accepting ourselves. For me it doesn’t mean permission to sin. It’s more like how things are right now and leaving things open and on the table for God.
I think the clarity for 'the way you are" is only directly applicable to being a Child of God.
Question for the audience here:
Is the LDS Church moving toward “social justice/wokeness” or away from it…
I see what I see, but curious what others are seeing
I don’t think they are moving towards it or away from it. I think they are trying to build bridges of understanding in a contentious world, but at the same time protecting the standards. The temple recommend requirements are still equally strong if not more so, than previously. It’s not only do you obey the law of chastity, but do you strive for moral cleanliness in all that you do, etc. I think the hard part is that many of us would like to hear a condemnation of the current sins and social ills of society, but it’s more of a focus on individual repentance and a relationship with Christ, and people have to be in tune enough with the Spirit and humble enough to repent of their sins, without having their specific sin listed in general conference.
Of course this is a religion. Equity was Lucifer's plan. This is the one world religion foretold in the book of revelations.
Loved this discussion! The New Age religion has been very concerning to me over the past couple decades as I saw some of those concepts starting to creep into gospel discussions, but I think the New Agers are joining forces with the religion of Social Justice. The ideology of both comes from the same place, of course, with slightly different flavors. It's all about finding a replacement for Christ (and repentance through the Atonement) as the only way to salvation, trying to create a pleasant workaround to the challenge of humbly submitting to the growth and pain of being changed into a new creature by a high-love, high-expectations God.
That too. It's incredibly pernicious and subtle- at first.
In my view, there exists a pervasive issue where many become overly entangled in their own dogmas. There are instances where individuals become so engrossed in the pursuit of social-justice that they inadvertently overlook the fundamental principle of universal humanity. Similarly, one may become so immersed in their Mormon identity that they lose sight of their broader Christian ethos, or so involved in their Evangelical identity that they forget the underlying tenets of Christianity spoken of in 1st Corinthians.
In the same vein, those dedicated to Buddhism may, at times, focus excessively on their own suffering, to the exclusion of others' struggles. Political affiliations, too, present a similar challenge. Individuals identifying as Democrats or Republicans may become so absorbed in party loyalties that they neglect the realization that they are first and foremost Americans, with a common interest in the success and happiness of their fellow citizens.
An excessive focus on a single facet of identity can potentially lead one to disregard the broader, interconnected context of shared humanity, faith, or national identity.
I agree. Just last Sunday I heard 3 ward members share beautiful testimonies of how they hope and have faith the church is true even though they don’t know for certain and have questions. A member of the stake presidency stood up at the end and bore a heretical and disingenuous testimony of how he “KNOWS….that Christ lives, that the Book of Mormon was translated from the plates, that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus. He went on and on saying things that any logical or thoughtful person understands he doesn’t know know these things but has a tremendous amount of faith in these things. He’s so ingrained in the pre internet culture of the church he couldn’t let the other testimonies go without standing and proclaiming HIS interpretation of what he knows. The sisters who had born humble testimonies of hope felt reprimanded and the rest of the ward certainly knows now they better not mention any faithful testimonies in spite of their doubts from the pulpit again. His words were obviously full of fear that sounded like he wanted us to desperately beware of doubts or it could be the end of you!!! Fear, fear, fear!!!
We don’t all have, nor need to have the same testimony. I’m ok with someone proclaiming they know, even when they do so with boldness, it doesn’t lessen mine nor make me feel judged. No one is perfect, if you keep that in mind and know you are doing your best then you shouldn’t feel belittled by other’s, you only need to be concerned with yours. Simply smile and move forward. The only two opinions count are mine and The Savior’s.
Thanks for the Ideologically camaraderie
Thank you for bringing so much awareness to this evil that’s infiltrating so heavily throughout our society. I realized how ignorant or possibly unwilling members especially are in acknowledging these issues when I moved to Utah a year ago. It seems to be a topic that nobody wants to address. I’m surrounded by (BYU) academia mindset, and have heard Kendi references over the pulpit one too many times. Those individuals are my childrens’ youth leaders and it’s made me hesitant to trust what’s being taught.
I'll be honest, I would not trust them or at a minimum, I would make sure these things are not brought up in their classes.
A very good episode. Thank you Greg!
You're welcome!
A progressive, "woke" member is simply an ex-member who hasn't removed their names from the membership rolls yet.
I think that most who convert to the Critical Social Justice gospel are unaware that they are in another religion. Awareness of the contrast is key for them.
My stake in liberal SLC is full of active, woke, members. They are all waiting for the church to change to their ideology.
Good thing our current church leaders aren’t our surgeons or they would not remove our cancerous tumors for fear of “offending them”.
Two Captain Moronis right there
Greg, I apologize if I'm repeating myself, but when my oldest son came out as gay when he was 17, that was almost 17 years ago, the woke nonsense was not nearly as pervasive as it is now. With that understanding, there were still many who also had children coming out but they did what you and your guest are mentioning in see the Church as a hateful, overbearing, and out of touch group of old men. So when push came to shove, they chose their children and this new secular religion.
For me and my wife, I've got to give my wife tons of credit here, we had made the decision when we were married where our loyalties were. Our personalities are so different that it seems of the few things we have in common, the Gospel and how we wanted to raise our children were the only things we completely agreed upon. My wife is very patient, loving, and sacrificed a lot to bring our five children into this world. We love the Doctrine of Christ. We love the Gospel and our prophets and apostles. We trust them and God. But we also feel like we have lost almost every one of our five children.
I say almost because my second son, who nursed for almost a whole year, still talks to us. He turns 33 in September and is currently in his first year of radiology residency. We're in Idaho and he's clear over in Connecticut. He's not married yet because he's very quiet, sarcastic, and can be easily annoyed, especially with us. My daughter has four of our six grandchildren and has cut us off and won't let us see her or the children. Same with our fourth child, third son, who just had their second child and sent us one picture, I guess he does speak to my wife sometimes, but they are very much into the SJW trash. They also live in California and his wife and my daughter like to compare notes and share what bad people me and my wife are.
Last year, because my daughter cut us off, we decided to look into getting visitation or at least some mediation with our daughter to see if the family court system would help us spend time with our grandchildren. Looking back, this was a bad idea because it has only made things worse. We feel like we don't have children anymore. People keep telling us that they'll come back, but their reasons for not letting see the children in the first place were petty at best; so there is something more to it than we know now. We are trying to get my wife's counselor and my daughter's counselor, who work at the same place, to get a mediation going, but my daughter is so bitter and angry that I don't think she will agree to it. I don't think her husband has ever liked my wife because he's never been kind to her. He just ignores her.
The worst thing is I've been praying and going to the temple often and I feel like we are getting no comfort for any of this. I feel abandoned. So does my wife. I'm probably being judgemental, but I see my daughters in-laws as very toxic and love the fact that they have no other grandparents to compete with. So far it's been two years since we've seen them.
This video makes so much sense in the case of my children and other family members that we've had issues with lately. Many are buying into this hard and their Church membership and testimonies is the war trash. I'm beside myself as to what to do. I pray the Lord returns soon.
My heart breaks for you, man. But, unfortunately, it’s rule #10 of anti-Mormonism: you have to condemn your parents for your wholesome upbringing. The SJW cult demand everyone be a victim so badly that when someone isn’t a victim they have to twist their history into an underdog story and all they must offer the false idols of wokeism is your personal relationship as a sacrifice. I’d love to know more
Of your story if you are willing to share.
Really sorry about this. It is heart-wrenching. The severing of generations is part of the plan of the Religion of Academia. It is in fact the opposite of Malachi 4 and the concept of eternal families. I'm really sorry about this.
I think the youth needs to hear this. They are bombarded and feel like they have to support this new religion. But how to get this through to them
It's not enough for one to have a testimony of the Gospel, one needs to be truly converted!
A great subject that too many of us are taking lightly. Thanks Greg for your continuous effort to get this before us and have to deal with the implications. Not sure why the Church never names this secret combination for what it is. Perhaps it is too polarizing politically and the Saints are not ready for the divide it might cause? Also, I was a fan of Faith Matters at one time and it started to lean into the language and narratives of the social justice movement that just didn’t seem to gel with my understanding of the plan of salvation and the doctrine of Christ. Good people but I believe have drank the Kool-Aid unfortunately.
I agree. I've stopped listening to Faith Matters as well.
Stay far away and warn your friends about Faith Matters. I know so many who have walked away from the church because of them!
Social Justice is this generation’s form of McCarthyism.
I believe that Wokeness could be expunged from our society using this as a definition.
I’ve always though the great and abominable church was the social justice movement.
Read what happens to them in the Book of Mormon.
They do turn on themselves.
It was a great article.
I'm still baffled about why Papa Ostler would say he loves it. He may have just missed the point and read it to mean "be nicer and open to conversation with LGBTQ people". If he did read it correctly and still endorses the message, then the schism happening in the Church will be more easily managed that I thought.
Jesus asked the Apostles, "Will you also leave?" and the Apostles answered "To whom will I go" Jacob Hess seems to make the argument that the best way to convince people that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a better Church or alternative, is by showing them it is through love unfeigned. This is difficult, because we know if we don't address the elephant in the room, it will continue destroying the furniture and bring more people out. Being examples of the Believer is definitely the way to go, but is there a righteous way to do this with trowels in one hand and muskets in another. Or as Paul said, 'Fight the Good fight"?
Does Jacob run the CZcams channel “Light and Truth”? His voice and cadence sounds very similar.
It's the religion of the flesh.
I like Jacob, I really appreciate what he has to say.
Great questions, Greg. They are very well thought out and put in a sequence that allowed the conversation to flow into the details of CSJ and the formation of this new religion. But, who will step up to be their savior?
If there is no law there is no sin! They don’t want to be called out a sinner… they get angry… they take the the truth to be hard. We are all sinners. It’s trying and nevertheless, submitting to Father s will and enduring(loving and trusting) to the end.gratefully. Mho.
Good point...we are the god of this new religion. 😢
This discussion was a Jackson Pollack when it should have been a Nicholas Hilliard.
Haha
Your take on this made me think of Lila Rose from Live Action.... boldly and lovingly sharing aspects of the very polarized pro life cause; her earnest and informed comments surprising in their effectiveness.
38:30 they (the victims) often take on the role of the “accuser” or “the Satán”.
When Jesus sat with the sinners and loved them or when he approached the woman caught in adultery and showed her compassion, or cast out several spirits out of Mary. He didn't convert to their way of life. He stayed with them and converted them to his way of life.
We're just in different rooms. The religions pull on each other as the human family navigates the 3D world. I'm just as happy to call Mormonism a religion as social justice ideology. They both impact each other as the middle plods along. In other words- I'm grateful to have the influence of mormonism in my life as well as the impact of social justice ideology. So glad I'm not fully entrenched in either as they are both illusory constructs. It's a superpower to be able to see them as such.
Edited to add this quote that I highly value "bring me into the company of those who seek truth and deliver me from those who have found it" I believe it was attributed to Michel de Montaigne but it may be older.
You can’t sit on the fence & feel good about good & evil…
No man can serve two masters.
@@kathyfessler4483 This is a false dichotomy. Unfortunately it's an old one that is deeply seated in us. Imagine for a moment that there is another viewpoint on this topic. How would you describe another way of seeing this?
@@EMathe Have you ever heard the saying, “You can’t have your cake and eat it, too”? You can look at different viewpoints and acknowledge them, but when life forces you to choose, you can’t have both. I am grateful for the knowledge I have gained through life’s experiences, and the ability to continue learning.
@@kathyfessler4483 I love cake. And I've always loved cake. My question was simple- How would you describe another way of seeing this?
Call me neieve but I don't understand what this conversation was about. What new religion!
Social Justice.
@@CwicShowgive protection to religion! Isn't that the point? The government needs to protect religious liberty!
A lot of what he says crosses into evangelical. As one myself we don’t live based on fear. And we bluntly saying “we’ve got that” at least in some. But all are dealing with a progressive agenda.
There is a peaceful way to handle this. It's called forgiveness. You call tell if someone is hardening their heart. Mormon saw it too. Ultimately his society too needed to forgive. They wouldn't have been destroyed if they had done that with their enemies.
Sure, but forgiveness is a two-way street.
@@CwicShow I don't get to control how someone responds. To forgive is to immediately not take offense. If only one party does that, me, the conflict ends.
This just isn't true. Moroni could have forgiven Amalackiah and and all of his followers, That doesn't mean the conflict ends. Conflict is inevitable when you stand for truth. I'm sure Nephi and Lehi forgave Laman and Lemuel consistently. Doesn't change the conflict.
@@CwicShow I see where you are going but the forgiveness you can control is only your own. So you make a point that the conflict won't always end but it does with you if you forgive. That's the only part you get to control without violating agency. Your forgiveness. So it isn't a two way street unless you think you must stop the conflict in order for forgiveness to be real. No, the only forgiveness you get to control is your own. And that will end internal conflicts. (Pres Nelson on ending conflicts) It is NOT a two way street unless you think you can control whether or not someone else will forgive you. You don't.
@@BornTheDragon if they are coming for your children, are you going to say the conflict ends when you forgive them? You are responsible for more than yourself. Did the conflict of the cross end when Jesus said, “forgive them, they know not what they do”?
Would the conflict have ended if the Jews just forgave the Nazis? This makes no sense to me. Forgiveness is key, but it rarely ends the conflict.
I think the perception of Jesus as a meek, “nice guy” has been taken a bit too far in the modern LDS church. When there are heretics trying to exert their will by force on everyone else in society, we aren’t going to “nice” our way out of it. We need to speak as ruthlessly against them as Jesus did of the Pharisees. And we need to do our best to unseat them from all power & influence in our society.
Conversion to true religion is coming to know the Lord's will and then doing it. Whatever the rest of the world does is of no matter when one is converted.
Woke does not have a god so that you cannot turn from him or turn against him.
It is planned that way.
In Christianity it does. It is a Barabbas infused Messiah. And you don’t need to turn from him because he is made in your image.
Presid not Nelson used the phrase " do not contend with anger" . Anger is the variable and a symptom of pride. Humility would be to teach the truth to help our brother or sister gain knowledge. Also be willing to learn something from them for the ultimate goal of unity.
STOP talking about "common ground", "appreciating options/beliefs" and so on when discussing pure evil!!!
WHY don't people see that common sense anymore???
Enjoyed the thoughts but his manner of delivery makes it difficult to appreciate his ideas. For me it swings too far. Instead of pulling back to place Christ as the center away from the evils of social justice, it comes across to me as lacking compassion or understanding of those who do feel marginalized (rightfully or wrongfully). I agree that focusing on the unfairness of the marginalized, or different races or sexual orientation etc should not be the main focus of our faith, Christ should be the central unifying belief, think dismissing those that are struggling takes us away from Christ’s commandment to love one another
Human rights are not religions
Agree. In truth they are not. But anything can become an idol to worship and they most surely are doing that.
And let’s be clear .. at least in America all have human rights. There is no law that holds human rights from any group.
Woke isn’t about securing human rights. It’s about gaining power
Over others in the name of human rights and then perpetuating the lack of human rights so you can maintain power by “constantly striving toward equity” that will never come. Don’t be fooled.
Well in an atheistic worldview human rights don’t matter because ultimately nothing really matters.