What's the Deal with Pylon cutouts?
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- čas přidán 6. 01. 2020
- The USS Enterprise in Star Trek: Discovery has some interesting cutout features on its nacelle pylons. What are they for? Let's find out!
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/ echenry
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I would suggest that they are to add separation between the plasma conduits and a manway to the nacelles. Adding the vacuum of space between people and heat, radiation and potential hazards is a way cheaper and easier method of protection than say heavy armor or building specialized energy shields for the task.
It could also add separation between the coolant and the warp plasma. If the warp plasma heated the coolant, both would be less effective.
One section of the pylon channels plasma, and another channels coolant.
Exactly what I was thinking as well. And they could run control systems up one side and plasma through the other - physical separation means that, if the conduit blows out/leaks/fails (somewhat) catastrophically, you might still be able to do a manual shutdown or otherwise triage the situation.
EDIT: Plus, a vacuum gap is less likely to fail than energy shielding, and would presumably add less mass than radiation shielding plates or the like.
I like this idea
I was going to suggest this exact thing. Of course there is probably a jefferies tube running along side the conduit for maintenance, it is likely highly irradiated, but by have a separate tube as well it allows access to the nacelles without the need of a radiation suit along with a conduit for such things as the a fore mentioned coolant, wiring, GNDN pipes, and other support systems that probably wouldn't function as well when competing with the plasma conduits for heat expulsion.
I was just about to write your theory.
Much cheaper than building an extra think wall to separate people from incredible energy levels.
Remember when Scotty had to crawl thru an energized Jeffery-tube.
"You would imagine a feature like this to have some..sort..of..function."
EC Henry has never met an architect. As an engineer, I envy you my friend.
As an architect, my first thought was it's because of heat just like Henry mentioned. I mean for someone with the slightest idea of how stress work it should be pretty obvious. Even for an architect ;)
Even worse for an Ocean Engineer...
Customer: I want this!
Engineer: 101 reasons why that is a bad idea with historical examples
Customer: Still want it!
Engineer: Okay...
Customer: My boat sank and it is all your fault
Engineer: "sigh"
"I don't want a column here."
"Will you stay here holding the structure?"
@@adamdubin1276 a manager was in a hot air balloon and lost his compass over the side. Unable to recognise any landmarks, he descended to where he could see a man walking his dog in a field.
"hey you", he shouts, "Where am I ?"
"You're in a basket hanging from a balloon above a field"
"You must be an engineer"
"How did you know"
"Because I asked you a question and your answer, although an accurate assessment of the situation, is of absolutely no use to me"
"So you're a manager!"
"How did you know?"
"Because you didn't know where you were before you spoke to me, you still don't know where you are but somehow it's my fault now."
@@zacmumblethunder7466 That's a good one!
For the first couple of seconds, I was scared that this was gonna be *that* kind of nerd content where they nitpick a tiny detail and then call it stupid and bad, but instead, you nitpick a tiny detail and extrapolate in-universe reasoning in a really imaginative way. I appreciate your channel because you always add to the work, rather than detracting from it.
As i’ve learned from the Simpsons, those are speed holes. They make it go faster
Exactly what i was going to say
Have hey tried to paint it red ?
They should paint flames on it, that way it will be too cool to shoot at
Reduction of aerodynamic drag.
@@NiceMuslimLady in *space*
I'm perfectly fine with assuming that it's for aesthetics even in-universe. You can't tell me Starfleet doesn't care about how their ships look, otherwise they wouldn't look so damn good.
I'm quite partial to the design of the borg cube.. Seems everything I ever design in Minecraft, 'Space engineers' or 'The Raft', they all tend to be flat squares.
Pizza cutters, Birds, and Childrens block toys.
100%. Not as badly as once structural support fields are introduced, which seem reliable enough that eventually the universe class throws structural sanity out the airlock entirely, but aesthetics seem to have always been a big consideration for starfleet designers. Which is a-okay, it obviously works well enough for them.
If your main method of expansion/economic growth/whatever else is diplomacy, you want good looking ships. Sleek ships make you look rich and technologically advanced. Intimidating ships make you look powerful. Fast looking ships means criminals might not be as inclined to try to run from you. And so on.
The issue with your surface area statement is that most of the surface area inside the cutout is radiating /towards/ the face of another ship component, allegedly also a radiating/cooling surface. This means that that surface area isn't actually eliminating heat, because that heat is going back into your ship.
It could just be a separation of the in-flowing warp plasma and the plasma flowing back to the warp core. Ship designers saw the two magnetic "pipes," and thought "you know what, we could just cut out that section of the hull right there, and it wouldn't do anything. Why not?"
Exactly, good thing someone said this.
The secret to bending pylons, is realizing 'there is no pylon'.
Which would mean that you, of course, must construct additional pylons.
@@OrdinaryLatvian "The Matrix" joke. I guess that was before your time.
@@chrisvellner3922 "Starcraft" joke. I guess you ain't much of a gamer.
What's funny is that StarCraft came out one year before The Matrix.
It's just internet culture, Chris. The meme itself is about 15 years old.
czcams.com/video/C5e6eG6bXAQ/video.html
@Judge Dredd I know that. I was poking fun at Chris' comment.
On the topic of heat radiation, I have always assumed that the warp grilles are actually heat radiators operating at very high (10000 Kelvin +, judging by their bluish glow) temperatures, to maximize radiance as per the Stephan-Boltzman Law:
𝑷 = 𝐴𝜀𝜎𝑇⁴
Where *A* is area, ε is emissivity of the radiator material, σ is the Stephan-Boltzman constant, and 𝑇 is the radiator temperature. As you can see, the temperature is to the power of four, meaning that doubling the radiator's operational temperature increases the amount of power it can radiate away sixteen-fold.
There are a few caveats to this idea however that I won't go into too much detail here unless anyone wants to know, but I find it a fun way to rationalise an iconic element of Trek ship design and solve the heat dissipation issue of these supposedly radiator-less ships.
The little fins on the TOS model were supposed to be radiators.... I think they underestimated the scale a tad.
Other possible invisible to us solutions could be high intensity lasers on a non visible part of the spectrum.
Ejecting heated particles from the hull to effectively create as large a radiator as you might need, this can be a total loss system as used on some real space craft or using the known tech of trek the particles can be reclaimed by some version of the various fields used by the ship already.
Dump your waste heat in subspace or something, invariably pissing off some native alien species for a single episode. Built in environmental message right there.
Sorry to bust your bubble, but that blue glow within the warp nacelles is the electromagnetic plasma interacting with the warp coils, thus generating the warp field. EM plasma-in and of itself-is invisible in a vacuum: no atmospheric gases for it to fluoresce.
I didn't understand a word but I think it's rather marvellous to see a comment thread like this.
@@robgyanisu312 As I recall, the blue light from the grills on the nacelles was already identified as Cherenkov Radiation.
Stop applying Science to my Fiction! ;)
I really appreciate this "hey let's figure out a plausible reason for these design choices" school of analysis, instead of just "they added stuff for no reason, the designers suck, discovery breaks canon".
@OriginalTharios yeah I know, right? The whining about Discovery and childish "STD" name calling is hilariously silly. Like, why did early versions of the original Enterprise have those spikes on the nacelle tips? Because they looked cool.
There certainly is an out-of-universe reason. They need to deliberately make their derivative version instantly recognizable (because the original version is so iconic) ... and they need to deliberately make it look unique (because they wanna sell toys and collectibles and merch - and licenses to the same - without paying revenues towards original designers).
In-universe reasoning is deliberatelu unexplained. Because fans always work out explanations and apologetics to validate inconsistencies in canon. Maybe the cutout holes are because they ran oit of shipbuilding metals, lol.
@@pwnmeisterage I'm not sure if making it recognisable and making it unique are actually two different things, your comment may contain unnecessary redundancy.
Edit: I later agreed this comment was incorrect, as per P's response.
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated Things can be recognizable but non-unique, things can be unique but unrecognizable. Redundancy?
@@pwnmeisterage you've got a fair point, I retract my previous objection. 🖖
Are you going to be doing a redesign of the xyston class star destroyer by chance? It would be sick to see!!
That's a really cool idea, honestly... but I'm super booked for many months to come, unfortunately.
Seconded. I'm not sure whether the movie designers were low on time, or trying to play to nostalgia, but seeing Henry's take on it would be great
@Surt Two considering the gigantic amount of ships in the movie they were probably short on time
@@wirbelass4212 all the ships were all just copy and paste from other films. That's why the xyston has the imp one bridge, it's the rogue one model with a big gun. Heck Hams cargo freighter was there. I was personally really disappointed
@@ECHenry Dew it!
They’re basically flames bro they make it go faster 🔥
I just imagine that starship technology has advanced to the point where ship designs aren't strictly utilitarian but also aesthetic.
When you have a part of an object that bears no stress, the easiest way to lighten the rest of the object is to exclude that part entirely. Thus we have I-beams in real construction.
"These are speed holes. They make the car go faster." - The Simpsons
If that were the case, wouldn't painted on speed stripes do the same? I mean they really sped up my '67 GTO back in '69. lol
Never thought I would find a six minute video on pylons so interesting
Next up. Saucer shape vs sphere. Which carries more?
We're Star Trek fans. We *live* for minute details.
Kevin Gomolchak *MINUTE*
They stole the design from the movie Enterprise , 1979-1991. So since they stole that design , they had to make it look slightly different, thus that cut out.
Clever huh?.
They added the pylon cutouts to avoid the dreaded Royalty Fee Revenue Cruisers.
Who on Earth would they have to pay royalty fees to? They own the image of the original Enterprise.
CBS _nominally_ owns all Star Trek rights and have been treated as the de facto IP owner. But it's never impossible for other claimants (Viacom, Paramont, Roddenberry estate, etc) to challenge this ownership, so it never hurts to install more property markers. And sidestep association with all those pesky fan versions, too.
Plus it's another run of replica ship models to sell! Trek is a product, Trekkies are customers.
@@pwnmeisterage entirely possible that rights could be fought for in court at some point, but that still provides little motivation for CBS (the currently recognise franchise owners) to not assume they have full rights over the first televisual U.S.S. Enterprise.
@@pwnmeisterage You are repeating fake news.
trekmovie.com/2018/04/17/star-trek-discovery-uss-enterprise-design-change-clarified-as-creative-decision-not-a-legal-one/
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated Also, with CBS and Paramount remerging it's about to be a completely moot point.
variety.com/2019/tv/news/cbs-viacom-deal-reunites-tv-studio-and-paramount-legacy-heres-what-might-come-next-1203263090/
Damn, saw the title in my notifications and thought this might have been about Starcraft. Ah well, still excited to watch this.
Oops, yeah, I guess I kinda overlooked the potential Starcraft confusion there.
Why have protoss carriers cutouts?
+The Left can't Meme
yeah, anyways:
We must construct additional pylons!
EC, I think you might be the only person on this site who can make a reliable and well-thought out video more than five minutes in length out of this particular question and I'm certainly here for it
"the real reason is the designers on this show like cutting sections out of their ships" *mic drop*
"What is this feature? This... cutout?"
That's part of the contractually mandatory 25% visual difference from the main timeline.
CBS has said multiple times, and especially with paramount and cbs together again. The 25% different bullshit doesnt exist.
@@TahoeTime4457 suuuureeee...
"and especially with paramount and cbs together again"
oh... well yes. a rule created for the split would stop existing after re-merge or whatever.
still... that's like supposed to help them? making a franchise shit due to greed and business rules... i could understand that. but if this rule doesn't exist... why exactly did they make a whole franchise shit then?
That's a myth, they just wanted the design to look better that the 60s miniature that's still good but very simplistic for modern television.
@@mychemicallobster6945 cool. in that case they failed in a different way.
@@MidnightSt how is it a failure exactly? It's still looks like the enterprise because it's the same enterprise just an earlier version of it that's more in line with the design language of the nx-01 let's be real the original design is outdated just a bit, it's too smooth and underwhelming for a modern show.
Maybe the TOS enterprise had deployable radiators installed in the gap, and we just never saw them used.
The TOS Enterprise never had cutouts....
@@richardched6085 I know, I'm suggesting the TOS version of the constitution may have had deploz radiators concealed behind panels in that particular area. Like the ISS's radiator panels but more advanced and presumably more like a wide golden ribbon that coolant could be pumped through , when they have enormous amounts of heat to deal with.
@@richardched6085 the TOS enterprise was an almost entirely different design anyway, Discoprise shares the same basic layout as TOSprise, but so does the ent A, B, C, and D, just in different proportions and level of hull detail
@@andrewbutton2039 pretty good idea. As the TOS Enterprise was designed to have all vital components and mechanics within the vessel. It was meant to be so streamlined that it would look insanely simple compared to modern design.
@@andrewbutton2039 not to mention it's size..... 442 Meters long.... no way that ship is refitted from 289 (The Cage) to 442 (STD) back down to 289 (TOS).
Great video as usual! The cutouts alone would not increase the rigidity unless the edges are extended past the original surface. The airplane cutouts are a perfect example but notice how the sheet metal is bent out effectively multiplying it's thickness which increases rigidity.
The additional surface area is nullified by the opposing surfaces radiating all their heat onto each other.
That was my thought too. Then I thought, what if there were smaller angled structures in there to radiate the heat away at a 45° angle? They should do that with the whole surface of the pylon. With triangular prisms, you could increase the total surface area by a factor of 1.4...
And since it doesn't matter how small the triangular structures are that's probably what they'd be doing. And with this, the cutout makes sense again for cooling.
And why you even think that enclosed area inside pylon is equal to cutout and radiating energy out even if some of it just act on another side of cutout? Nullified is wrong word there and clearly you are wrong.
yup my thoughts exactly, the design doesn't make sense period. If heat radiation were the goal why isnt the entire surface full of radiators which are as close to blackbody radiators as possible ? a folded design, maybe even incorporating mirrors and lenses might be a realistic move ...
God damn. This is the kind of content I live for.
For your second point, I was under the impression futuristic shaped EM fields are use to prevent drive plasma from touching the walls of the conduit(s) and melting them. So the idea of keeping the conduits cool doesn't make a lot of sense because the plasma is not in direct contact with the conduit itself to transfer that heat.
Fields can contain the plasma itself, but it will still radiate heat. Also, if power goes down you need a mechanical fallback.
Also an electromagnetic system has much less resistance when cold. If they use a highly efficient superconducting magnet system, they would have to be keeping it very cold.
Exactly. The plasma doesnt need cooled anyway.
You just gained a new subscriber. I love your technological analysis of these kinds of things.
I would love to see a rerender of the Battle of Endor from you using all your designs!
I think it's a pitty, that this amazing space battle is visually very outdated. Most ships are just so blury and often have weird blueish looks.
Even just seeing a couple of shots from the movie being reimagined by you would be amazing!!!
They're obviously ailerons. You know, for landing
Starships don't land anymore, they swim!
@@pwnmeisterage So true... Star Trek into Darkness, The Orville...
@@deadNightwatchman Imma be honest... I'm pretty sure The Orville ain't Star Trek but with Riker around I can't tell.
My favorite channel on CZcams. Love these videos! And the Star Wars ships!
Great video, EC!
I love it when everything is analyzed to death..... AMAZING.
Whenever I see a traditional saucer and secondary hull with nacelles on pylons design, I just want to add a brace between the two nacelles or extend the nacelles at the front so they connect to the primary saucer section (a bit like the Steamrunner class).
If only the next film after Nemesis had gone ahead, apparently the same designers who did the new anti Borg First Contact ships were going to do a bunch of new Starfleet ships inspired by the Defiant - with a internal bridge and nacelles blended into the hull as the paradigm to show Starfleet is now tough and militant.
The star cruiser has pretty nice nacelles and pylons they are tucked in with the aft section of the ship instead of being extended super far out
@@nobleactual7616 Best idea ever. As seen in ST: Beyond the Enterprise's weird thin pylon design is easy as hell to take advantage of.
Thing I love about star trek and star wars content is how such a small thing can lead to entire discussions and debates
"If we're gonna take the design literally as a real ship"
I can see where the problem is.
Isn't that the point of this channel? To have fun overthinking spaceship engineering?
@@LOBricksAndSecrets Star treck ships are so undertought that trying to use logic to explain them is kinda ehh...
@OriginalTharios what's wrong with how The Expanse does things? Although obviously the coolest ship in sci fi is the TARDIS.
I'm positive you put more thought into it in this short video than the entire creative team did when they made it and approved it.
I’m willing to go with the larger portion is heat sink while the smaller portion is a Jeffries tube or a turbo lift. Thus separating the really hot thing from where ppl have to traverse to do their job
I started thinking about what they might be when I saw them too. I ended up figuring it could be explained as a segregated channel for things you didn't want interacting with warp plasma in the event of a containment failure. Like, it could either just be a turbolift or for sending material collected from the Bussard collectors to where it's processed in the ship. (I imagine keeping deuterium and plasma from interacting with one another inside your oxygen-rich ship would be a high priority concern for engineers.)
Here before Star Trek steals this as the canon explanation
Do they actually do that?
Hey echenry! I have always enjoyed your videos and keep up the good work! How is the fan film coming along?
I got no trouble with them EC. They look cool. And happy late new year bro.
Are you going to make fleshed out models of the sidelined ships in Episode 9?
I live your videos so much I watch your star trek videos even though I've never seen star trek. There just so engaging and interesting
Well thought out!
The cut could also change the vibration modes of the nacelles. Goes with the stresses you mentioned. One could also twist the physics of warp drive to allow for some gain in speed or efficiency from warp field dynamic but that's way more thinking than most people want to do. Perhaps more time on the stories.
LOVE UR WORK! THX
It’s Discovery, nothing in that show makes sense
So far radiating heat is the only thing I have heard of that makes any sense. I'm glad you made a video on this as I think the only place I have heard this talked about was trekyards.
You're doing better job than entire STD writing team.
Radiating heat doesn't need a medium, that's why we get the heat of the sun through the vacuum of space. Convection doesn't happen though, that's where you do need some sort of fluid, either liquid or gas. So adding more surfaces to radiate heat from would help to lose heat
You blow my mind with every video, pure creative brilliance
The world of star trek exists in such a strange space between Form vs Function. So much of the design is because they're so advanced, technology allows function to follow form. But then we have the technical specs and all kinds of things, and all kinds of things. There's definitely a push and pull between the two extremes for a lot of ships.
Another genius video. I wish I was this smart. I bet the writing staff for STD wish they were this smart. Keep up the good work. Someday they may tap you to save the franchise. 🙏🏻
Mentions radiators on the International Space Station, while showing a picture of the MIR space station.
This is so great!
if i remember right, Radiometric converter tech wasn't made until the 24th century. So the USS Enterprise 1701 would still have a problem with handling antimatter waste, radiation and cooling unlike those in the 24th century that recycled the waste back into other subsystems. So your explanation about regulating plasma cooling is awesome. i'd loved to explore more history about how starships handling waste and cooling. i still remember in TNG "Starship Mine" that a Baryon sweep was needed every 5 years or so, i wonder how Voyager got away with needing one after 7.
It doesn't have to have a function in-universe either, Starfleet Ship Architects may have just had a thing for cut-outs in that era - most of the other designs bear that out. In about five years time, a new generation takes over that likes solid primary colors, solid struts, and byoootiful candy-button-encrusted consoles.
The smaller beam might transport coolant to the blue glowing radiators on the inbound of the nacelles. The larger beam transports warp plasma, interstellar gas, hot coolant, and have transport tubes. The vacuum of space then helps insulate the coolant from the other one. Or maybe the warp plasma travels through the smaller one and the larger one is everything else. The point is that the smaller conduit is thermally isolated from the rest of the pylon by the conduit. This likely helps keep whatever is in there at a stable temperature.
The prequel book said that the ship had a special refit for being in a nebula for a year and every part of the refit was for a smoother ride and better aerodynamics.
aerodynamics matters very little in space which has next to nothing by way of air
@@TheMasaoL I know right? Supposedly, its aerodynamic in the nebula? IDK
Loved this vid :)
If I recall the blueprints of the refit correctly, the vents, which were on the forward and trailing edge of the pylons, were called "Emergency Flux Vents."
The Enterprise from ST-TMP already had a waste heat management system with it's Flux Chillers on the inboard and outboard of each nacelle. Inboard they glowed blue.
Also I think showing starships under construction with girders and beams is a nod to showing something familiar to the audience -- it's how we're used to seeing buildings under construction. Starships would almost certainly use a unibody/monocoque frame concept to reduce weight and add strength. Also, Structural Integrity Field.
Since they have already figured out warp drive and transporters I would hope they had also figured out a way to convert that waste heat into another form of radiation that could be dispersed into the icy void much more readily than infrared heat.
I completely agree.
Also, as an alternative I'd like to suggest a "skeleton" made of arcs and circles (a bit like a 3D-chainmail construct, with bigger spaces in between). Would give especially the Enterprise-D rigidity and flexibility.
Another possible explanation: when the constitution class first rolled out of the shipyard it just had the forward part of the pylon. After a year of shakedown the designers determined that the pylons were not quite strong enough and needed to be reinforced. The immediate solution was to add another set of pylons in parallel with the originals, leaving the small gap between them.
Presumably this was intended to be a temporary addition to the constitution class while they go back to the drawing board and design a stronger and thinner pylon. By the time Kirk is in command the enterprise has undergone a small refit to replace the old reinforced pylons with the new design as seen in TOS.
When I first saw the cutouts they reminded me of the air-gaps in power-bricks,
but instead of preventing the unregulated side shorting over to the regulated side,
these cutouts prevent the active plasma from leaking their charge into the spent plasma.
There is another angle to the heat concept: if the plasma conduits are in the area with the vents, and the pylons are also high load structural elements, then it may be helpful to isolate some of the support structure from the heat source.
Heat tends to make metals more pliable, and keeping some of the metal at cooler temperatures can contribute to maintaining a desired standard of rigity.
1. Allows the pylons and Na-cells to be flexible in turbulence.
2. The area has these Star Trek "thingy units" that produce Star Trek "thingies" in the space. Space smoke, space lighting, radar disruption features, sensor features.
3. Area collects required gas materials in Nebulous flight or high orbit gas planet flight to later be processed for long space duration flight - like Nobel gases required for life.
(like in Lost in Space season 2 when they collect the gases to clean the water system)
4. That particular version of pylon and na-cells do not have a flight or engineer system that would be in that usually housed in that space. (i.e. a science version may require it)
5. It is pivotal in atmospheric flight in the Star Trek universe. Gosh, even kids and a Klingon know that...
I was going to be sarcastic and then I really got into the thinking process. Fun.
I dislike many things about Discovery, but the Enterprise is certainly not one of them. Fell in love with this design as soon as I saw it.
I love it as well. If you're going to retcon a classic design, this is how you do it.
Don't watch the show but nice blending between the TOS and refit ships.
@@SVSky There's even some NX class in there as well, especially in the nacelles.
I used the Enterprise refit in a story once, it was, in the story, used because it fit the technology in the story and was an entirely human design (and the most beautiful starship design out there imo). The pylons in the story had ionic hydrogen reservoirs to trap heat converting the hydrogen to plasma and when the ship needed to release heat it would open vents on the back of the pylons to release the plasma into space. They never cover how they get rid of waste heat in the show but cutouts like that could be used to protect vents to release plasma. Such vents could be considered a weak spot that you'd want some extra protection on, the cutouts would help shield them and the hull of the pylons behind would easily endure the heat though it would absorb some making them a bit less efficient, trade off. In my story the nacelles were actually the powerplants and they generated a great deal of heat so separating them from the hull helped with heat management. Oh, and the bridge was in the center of the saucer, the top was an observation lounge. lol
For what its worth, a canonical explanation for the cut out is the seperation of the plasma supplies between the Coils from the larger strut and a low volume delivery strut for the off axis field restoration devices at the rear of the Nacelle.
Those are the attachment points for the polarity-inverted phased tachyon pulse emitter array manifolds. They're placed in the warp pylons so that it's easier to divert all power into them.
Radio frequency energy like microwaves don't travel in solid conductors but tube like waveguides. The slot could be a form of energy waveguide.
Very clever!
See, this is why I can't get accept the idea of a 'visual reboot, but it's still the same ship.' Like... the pylons have a hole, or they don't have a hole. Having a hole isn't just another 'look' for not having a hole. They're two very different things. So, I really can't accept them as being the same ship; it's a ship with holes in its pylons, or it isn't; it's not both. :-)
But... if the holes are there, this is a very plausible explanation for why. Bravo.
Henry, you need to be employed by CBS and school all the production staff. I love your informative, well-considered video essays - your super intelligent and have a great speaking voice too.
Interesting topic! Smart analysis too.
Two ideas I had (both could apply):
Cutouts reduce scope for eddy currents induced in pylon metallic structure that might have undesirable magnetic or heating effects.
Cutouts allow for inspection and maintenance access to - and easier swap-out of - certain components and structures.
The separation could be as a heat stop, the slot is used to prevent heat transfer through conduction. The hole could change the resonant frequency of the nacelle and prevent the nacelle from flying apart.
Nope, it's stronger due to Arthur c Clarke's theory of perforation in toilet paper....the more there are, the less likely it will year at the perforations. Clearly a nod to sci Fi greatness.
Holy shit. You came up with a plausible explanation. The cutouts won't bother me anymore. I can now happily rewatch SNW season 1 without feeling deeply uncomfortable during every exterior shot.
A cutout in the pylon would be an excellent place to store a droplet radiator system. After the plasma is used in the warp nacelles, the still hot gas/liquid is vented out one side of the pylon in tiny droplets. The insane surface area of this material sheds heat rapidly and is then collected on the other side of the pylon as the ship moves forward naturally.. While such a small gap limits the amount of cooling that can occur it would also limit the material loss.
Heat dissipation had been my thought, but then I realized there's an essential flaw in your reasoning.
You're looking at this backwards.
They didn't design a thick pylon and remove a cutout.
They started with a single, slim pylon, and added a second, smaller one by integrating it into the strait's design.
In a later refit, the features introduced in DISCO may have been reassessed and found wanting....perhaps all the bells and whistles added came at a cost of too much power drawn, decreasing performance. So, Starfleet might have rolled back the Enterprise to it's older, pre-Discovery form until its innovation was rethought and reintroduced in the refit seen in TMP.
lol, "minor refit"
@@pills- Aren't they all ;)
You should do a redesign of the TROS Star Destroyer! Love to see your design flair and mentality applied to them rather then the bigger imp 1 with a big gun that we got
Both good theories. Also possible, some sort of antenna/sensor extension.
Your version is something I'd fly.
The problem with the idea of the cut outs being for radiating heat is that they don't increase the amount of surface area that is *facing out into space*. That extra surface area is pointing at each other, most of the infrared light being emitted by those surfaces isn't shooting off into space, its just hitting the other side of the cutout and being reabsorbed.
I am interested by this idea of the ship trying to shed heat. I wonder if, taking this into consideration, cloaked vessels have to capture heat while cloaked instead of shedding it. Doing so would hopefully hide their heat signatures.
This might explain the massive engine section of most Klingon/ Romulan birds of prey, and why they have the command section so separated and vulnerable.
Especially when you look at a D'Deridex. This might explain their ability to not only travel at extreme speeds while cloaked, but look cool doing it. Poor Klingon engineers must be boiling when they are cloaked.
Well considering how hot Klingons like it, it was probably considered a design feature.
This probably won't have the same function on something the scale of a starship, but such a cutout on a smaller solid item would prevent a tear or crack from spreading.
Real life examples would be car bumpers and fiberglass. If there are cracks in either and they're being repaired, prior to any material being added the ends of any cracks are drilled out to prevent the crack from spreading, as repairing something without doing so will eventually result in the crack simply spreading beyond the repair. I believe cracked metal is sometimes repaired with drilling the cracks out as well. It is for a similar reason why a windshield on a car with a small crack will soon need a full replacement in most cases, as the crack will eventually spread along the windshield.
So my theory is that if the pylons were to be physically damaged such cutouts could help prevent total structural failure and having a nacelle fall free of the ship.
Could be to minimize the stress at high warpspeeds. Like bridges have a gap due to freezing water, so they don't get damaged when it freezes.
because it sends the sense of hugeness, make the ship looks less like a thing that has been CNC out of a piece of material but a thing thats been put together buy many many parts to a point the suppose in-story-designer wasn't in pursuit for interior space anymore.
eg. defiant will looks smaller however we look at it.
I would like to think that the rear, thinner portion of the pylons is actually where all the structural support for them and the nacelles is located, with possibly jefferies tubes running through it as well for maintenance of the nacelles. While the other, thicker portion would indeed perform some heatsink function, both for the Warp Drive's plasma conduits and maybe for the ship generally - I would imagine all the weapons on the Enterprise would also generate quite a lot of heat as well. Having a long, thin and flat structure, filled with heat tubes (whether plasma conduits or vapour chambers), running parallel to the main vector of the ship's acceleration is a cheap and efficient way of passively dissipating heat into the vacuum of space using only the vessel's movement.
Hmm it would be an interesting way to gauge misalignment in the direction of your power output. Being able to compare the different stresses between the two substructures without significantly sacrificing strength.
Great video, as always. As far as Star Trek goes, I've recently wondered how the replacement crew is always appearing at just the right time, even though the away team has just been decided upon. I could understand if they were showing up due to a shift change, but not after a spur of the moment away team assembly. I mean they are usually coming out of the turbo lift, not some bridge crew waiting lounge, which means they are presumably coming from their quarters or any number of other locations throughout the ship. Just a thought for a potential future episode.
Given the volume of the ship, it's entirely possible that there's an unseen ready area (let's call it the green room) where duty personnel can assemble before going on-shift.
I read a star trek novel years ago. A junior officer needed to stop terrorists stealing the Enterprise. She wrapped a tractor beam in the nacelle strut and another on a nearby smallish moon and pulled! Kirk said to her ( later) "You bent my ship?" Lol the last line in the book was Scotty standing in her door "Lass, I'd like a word with ye." Oh that poor girl.
It separates the mechanical part (vents?) and the people part (elevators?). It also directs buckling away from the saucer section.
Or they added the cutouts to make it 20% different.
What's with the 20% 25% difference comments? Is this some copyright BS? CBS owns the franchise, they dont have to make anything different by any measure.
@@DrewLSsix They do now that they've merged with Paramount, before the license was split between CBS and Paramount, Paramount had the films, CBS had the TV series, Paramount couldn't make anything under the Star Trek license, so they made an alternative license with CBS, so Bad Robot had to make everything 20% different so that they and Paramount could get a cut out of the merchandising, hence the Kelvin timeline movies. The company under Bad Robot ownership (forgot their name) working on STD had to do the same so they could profit off the merchandising. Now that CBS and Paramount have merged hopefully we can get back to ships and uniforms that actually look like Star Trek. I probably didn't explain it that well, but the Midnight's edge has some great videos explaining it.
Well, original constitution model had 3 heat sinks just bellow Bussard collectors.
It's possible that the cutout served as emergency warp plasma ejector
A possible reason separate from what you said is that during manufacturing of Discovery’s version of the Enterprise, certain areas of the pylons needed to be readily accessible for construction and the speed of that construction. If pipes run through those pylons, then a break in the pipes could mean days of reconstruction compared to hours. If you ever built a water cooled PC then you know just how easy it could be to leak water all over your newly built machine when you start putting pressure through and how you could quickly ruin components if you don’t have immediate access to the loop. So in this case, imagine a plasma leak ruins a good chunk of components in a star ships pylon, rather than taking all the piping along with every single component in the way of the leak, just have quick access to the pylons center for repairs and construction. The down side is that the ship has less integrity like you said, but I would imagine that the ribs are now oriented vertically to try and make up for this loss. Perhaps the material just got stronger so they could afford that loss of integrity.
thermal dissipation was my first thought. I'm fairly sure there are access ways into the pylons for repairs. I think one of the Command Level no-Win scenero's require you to send an officer into one of these to die in order to save the ship. it's possible one side (probably the thiner side) is for coolant input and personnel access and the thicker side is for the plasma input and output. there has never been any onscreen mention of thermal sinks so I think your right about that. it's logical that they didn't put them in on the original production line until they got the performance data back to see if the existing pylon structure would hold as it was. updating the design as understanding and advancement's came in. (coinciding with RW designers own understanding of engineering as they progressed themselves. )
Removing sections from inside a beam does NOT make it more resistant to bending. Removing a section from the inside and then adding the equivalent mass to the outside edge does (see I beams), because the outside edges contribute most to the bending resistance as they're further from the neutral plane. But just removing material from the middle of the beam without redistributing it somewhere more useful makes a beam weaker, not stronger.
In this case that's less applicable as you're essentially talking about replacing one big tube with multiple tubes, but the same principle applies if you consider them all elements of one large beam (the pylon). Just removing material does not a stronger structure make, unless it's redistributed to more useful locations. Which for the pylons is the extreme front and extreme back, with the surfaces of any interior cutouts far less important as they're closer to the neutral bending plane at the centre of the pylon.
The real reason is from the designer of the ship, John Eaves.
What he did was take the TOS ship, and added bits on to it that could be removed. If you take away the extra bits, you have the TOS ship, so it was a way to explain how the ship changed from The Cage to Discovery and then to TOS.
As for the nacelle pylons specifically, the single pylons became a double pylon design.
There is one other thing, in Discovery and SNW we see that the pylons are on an angle and are not straight like in TOS. This was a change done by the visual effects team and not John Eaves. As designed, the pylons are supposed to be straight.
Eaves talked about it in an episode of the CZcams show Trekyards.
The John Eaves version with straight double pylons is in the Star Trek Online MMO.
The problem with the heat rejection hypothesis is that you aren't taking into account interreflection. Basically, in space a hot object is an infrared lamp, projecting a beam of heat (mostly) straight out away from the hot surface. If two radiator panels are facing each-other directly, they are experiencing nearly 100% interreflection on those facing sides, this doesn't just make them non-functional, they'll actually be working against their intended function. This means that those cutouts if they were radiators are would be at best just pumping heat around in a circle, rejecting very little of it from the ship. It would actually make much, much more sense to give the whole outward facing surface of the pylon a corrugated texture and make each pylon one giant radiator. If radiator size directly correlates to warp-plasma throughput then this would probably more than double the ship's capacity to move plasma, allowing for much more plasma-hungry warp coils.
The problem with the concept of increasing surface area 6% through the cutout is the faces of the cutout face each other. That means thermal energy radiated as infrared from one side will warm the apposing side and effectiveness will drop versus just having the faces facing outward, opposite each other.
I think the simplest explanation is the cutouts are just a way to redistribute mass. It's cut from the rear so the center of gravity moves forward just a teeny bit. On rockets being at least slightly nose heavy is very important.
A more complicated explanation is the cutout is a way to physically isolate the plasma conduit from a personnel conduit for most of the pylon length. If the plasma conduit breaches, either accidentally or by combat, thanks to the gap it is slightly less likely to also breach the crew conduit. It acts like spaced armor by giving space for an explosion to expand before reaching the opposite bulkhead.
My theory is that it allows external access to the pylons innards from those cutouts in an emergency or to allow servicing.
I Think one is new warp plasma going into the nacelles and the thinner side is what can be returned after it is used by the nacelle so they can reuse it so they don't have to always replicate more raw material to make warp plasma, it might be more efficient to reuse some of the waste to make new warp plasma, or a return line for tactical situations so enemy ships cannot tract the exhaust of the nacelles