Grief Is Taking Over The Legacy Format And WOTC Needs To Fix It Now!
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
- The Legacy format is on fire, burning from the flames of Grief and Dimir Reanimator that is almost 25% of the recent metagame.
Why has WOTC not acted? Can we wait until August's B&R to act?
#mtg #magicthegathering #reaction #thoughts #wow
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Other Links:
Owl Central Games Tweet: x.com/OwlCentralGames/status/...
Owl Central Games Announcement (Cancels Legacy 5K): owlcentralgames.com/announcem...
Legacy Metagame Page: www.mtggoldfish.com/metagame/...
Phil Gallagher (ThrabenU)'s Tweet: x.com/ThrabenU/status/1809323...
Jacob Milchmann's Tweet on Legacy Showcase Challenge Results: x.com/FrowningTable/status/18...
Magic Online's Tweet/Announcement Retracting Data Dumps for MTGO: x.com/MagicOnline/status/1809...
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I genuinely think, they are hesitant to ban Modern horizons cards unless they absolutely have to, because they keep power creeping the format, and if it becomes a pattern that the good cards get banned from horizons sets, people won't buy the sets until they know what will be banned. WOTC is simply covering the bottom line, they no longer care about the game itself
Hasbro.
It's not WotC, it's Hasbro.
@@refundreplay there is no difference
@@dirtydard4870 WotC was doing fine until Hasbro took full control. It's been a slow death spiral for a few years now.
For people who aren't as familiar with Legacy and are wondering why in a format with free interaction rescaminator is dominating, its because its a reanimator deck that's effectively immune to graveyard hate.
The deck construction is absolutely brilliant imo, and it took months with all these cards being legal for people to figure it out. The deck is designed to have a game 1 oops I win button in a tempo scam shell, and post board games determine how fast you need to be by boarding out the reanimation package and boarding in fairer elements, often times dauthi, murktide, and some number of bowmasters while keeping in the scam package. So in post board games you can go "nice leyline, I play Dauthi" and just ignore the graveyard. I can't tell you the number of games I've played where I died holding surgical extraction in my hand.
Even if you have, say, surgical extraction in your opening hand, your opponent can grief take the surgical and reanimate grief and take your best card in your hand. There is no positive interaction for you if you get grief scammed while on the draw, on the play you could have veil of summer to blow them out, but you're only on the play 50% of the time and you're not going to be lucky every single time. Its also immune to free counter magic as well as you pretty much NEVER want to force a grief because if they reanimate it, you're now down 3 cards instead of 2 and you're both now top decking with them starting with a 3/2 menace on the board, which pretty much means they win as they are a disruptive tempo deck as well. There is no free interaction in the entirety of Magic: The Gathering that makes the grief scam start favorable for you.
I also want to quickly mention some things that modern players that don't play legacy aren't used to. Reanimate and Animate Dead can target either graveyard. So you don't even need to be grief scammed to lose on the first turn. They can grief you, take you're Atraxa, and now its their Atraxa. And you can replace Atraxa with any fatty, like nulldrifter, Troll, Caves of Chaos Adventurer, Seasoned Dungeoneer, or Balustrade Spy to instantly kill your opponent. This is why Psychic Frog is also so good in the mirror, it can remove your own fatties from the graveyard in response to a reanimation effect. Obviously that's not the only reason frog is good, providing card advantage, damage, and a way outside of entomb to put your fatties into the graveyard.
I was personally saddened to hear that Owl Central Gaming cancelled their 5k event as I was really looking forward to playing at that awesome store, it is such a shame that so many people I know are choosing to take a break from Legacy till August as they think its boring with how oversaturated scaminator is. Hopefully they'll do something before SCG Baltimore so the 1k and 5k won't just be Grief.
Good comment, explains in detail all the issues of legacy.
So the Travis Woo to Magic Aids pipeline has destroyed legacy and the sideboard as a concept. Got it.
They canceled their 5k bc they only had 6 ppl pre registration. Not bc of the state of the format.
I can't believe people don't realize how stupidly self-refuting the statement "grief is good for the format because it keeps nadu in check"
"nadu is fine just ban shuko and outrider." Is another sentiment i keep hearing on repeat.
I think wotc is gonna ignore their formats until the next B&R announcement unfortunately. Legacy, Modern, and even Pioneer all need some attention, but we'll have to wait to the end of August before they might do something.
Pioneer is fine. What needs to be banned in Pioneer?
@FitGuyAZ577 The Amalia combo drags games out to time, which is a tournament logistical nightmare and Rakdos Vampires currently well over 20% of the meta, which is not healthy for a non-rotating format and is usually the precursor for something getting banned.
I usually watch a lot of BoshNRoll and ThrabenU and I see them facing Grief decks approximately 70% of the time, in each video.
This deck is soooooo much more broken than the modern version. Reanimate is too good with grief
Long term legacy and modern player here .
Comparing modern and legacy to argue bans no bueno .
Totally different reasons for cards like wrenn and six /ragavan to not be used in legacy .
Also again ... the reason there isnt a ton of legacy events is because people cant afford to play it . Flat out . My favorite format will die because of the reserve list .
I own all of legacy , but dont have many opponents.
The EVENT WAS CANCELLED BECAUSE of Attendance... not the meta .
Delver was over 25 % of the meta for years and no events were cancelled .....
I mean the Host of the tournament themselves pointed at Grief as being the first reason why that tournament was canceled. You could argue that they're pointing at something else to deflect, but we kinda got to take their word for this stuff.
@TinyLokiGaming
I believe the grief complaint should be taken as" that guy doesn't like grief" as opposed to the entire legacy community.
The meta isn't any more broken than before. it's just dimir instead of izzet .
It's more likely that it was canceled due to not having a bunch of ppl , not the meta.
The meta will shift and be alright (veil of summers/leylines)
@thomasdaniels6247
I haven't met a single Legacy player who enjoys the grief play pattern so I'll take the word of the tournament host over random CZcams guy
Legacy events need to adopt a "don't ask. Don't tell" mindset with Proxies. If they look legit then they should be treated as such. It's the only way to save the best format in MTG
@skirk248 they can't, unless they start running them outside WPN, like the cedh events.
Dog griselbrand has been a one of fun of for a while in reanimator piles. Like troll pitches it’s self so you got a 6/5 with super menace, and atraxa a stronger card overall, as it gives you card selection and a 7/7 that answers everything cause it has an insane amount of key words
Yeah, Grislebrand hasn't seen much play since Atraxa dropped. It's just a better card.
I forgot Griselbrand was a card over a month ago tbh
Atraxa is just blue. Flying lifelink are the main keywords and griselbrand has those. Both functionally win the game on the spot so you play the one that's less bad to draw, since you already have archon as a backup which needs to be there to play around karakas. It's also not a lotus petal deck so the life matters a bit more. Griselbrand still has the stronger effect in a vacuum.
@GodzillaFreak being able to draw the cards while at 6 life is pretty relevant.
3:54 This is not true, Wastelands and pitch counterspells are pretty much more than half of the Legacy decks will all automatically run
True it’s the biggest part of the format. Lands and free spells are some of the most broken cards in the game. And as you play higher power formats like legacy and vintage those cards become more powerful.
I hate grief :P
What would have happened if all these elementals had one mana of their corresponding color instead of pitching a card as their convoke color?
Elementals should have just been a force spell… would have been way fairer.
I would be 100% in favor of banning MH1, MH2, and MH3 from all formats. These sets were always a mistake
In my country we have a saying: "parece que les dan un sueldo para estar todo el día rascándose las bolas" is crude and offensive and is more relevant in corrupt third world countries than to the board in charge of bans and restrictions... But it certainly rings a bell
Grief shouldn't be touched until nadu is touched
they should ban both
Didnt Pioneer started as a player created format that was later adopted by Wotc? why dont we make new formats that preban the MH sets or maybe a has a panel like of trusted community members that can keep the formats healthy and ban cards when they are neede to be banned?
That's a damn good idea 👽
@@RojaAlego a buddy of mine has a modern cube that’s no horizons no expansion sets. All the cards were standard legal at one point. Shit’s fun.
4:04 Nadu combo in Modern is infinitely more frustrating. A long non deterministic combo that doesn't kill me is way worse then someone with heavy disruption killing me with a 3/2 till the big guys show up.
Grief is dope I love it and also don’t always play it.
I feel like WoTC's philosophy has changed over recent times. It feels like now they'll say a format is fine until enough players stop playing. They're in full on money-making mode and it's honestly why I've stepped back from a lot of constructed.
In the case of Pioneer they announced a ban right before the Pro Tour then used that as an excuse to not ban Amalia. Add to that the red mythic(?) revealed from Duskmourn and it feels like they're intentionally ignoring the issue. Much like with giving Pioneer Krenko's Buzzcrusher to answer Lotus Field but then giving Lotus Field Archdruid's Charm in the same set...
In Modern, I gave up right before LoTR because of Scam and 4C Elementals. And now their answer to those decks is to make something like Nadu 💩. Something that you can't profitably remove and something that does NOT draw cards to avoid Bowmasters. And to add insult to injury it's an X/4.
If I was a Legacy player I'd be furious with how the format constantly gets churned by cards from both Modern and Commander products nowadays. I like watching Thraben U play just to see what's going on but I feel bad for paper players because their format is already expensive to play (what you want) proxy-less. So when the format sucks it's like a doubleslap in the face.
ik you dabbled a bit in lorcana but maybe u can look into the state of competitive alot of people are clammering its a go first luck sac format
I stopped playing with the death of Pixelborn and pretty sure that's what it was at that time, did anything make it worse after the release of the Ursula set?
I guess Disney learned nothing from decades of magic wisdom
@@reviewchan9806Disney has nothing to do with Lorcana. They license the rights to Ravensburger. Ravensburger is the company that made the successful and well-liked Villanous tabletop game.
Lorcana's failings, in my opinion, come from an older game designer that has pulled design elements straight from 1990s Magic. Even with the few card design issues there are, the game overall is fantastic, and is very reminiscent of old school Magic. They have rules issues that I don't agree with, and a lot of the community agrees with me. That said, hopefully those rules issues will get fixed, and this already great game will continue to thrive.
I'd recommend that you don't just hate on it because it's a Disney property. Actually play the game.
@@ThatMillGuyShaf look up Bucky that all you need to do.
It's not a mistake. It is a by design.
I understand that WOTC wanted a card people could play that would stop all these turn 3 shenanigans and make magic great again, a force of will power level card for all. That's why they wouldn't ban it. Every super busted card they print like Nadu is contingent on this playable mass discard spell. But Grief ended up being a knife in the back of every constructed format where it's legal. Grief, and WOTC's decision to not ban it became the very reason I finally pulled the plug on all constructed formats and will only play commander.
I have a green and black great henge/ grief scam deck and It is a blast but I do agree grief Is pretty rough To play against It needs to be banned Until then I just use surgical extraction
I checked the legacy metagame yesterday and my jaw dropped when grief was 25% meta share and the next most played deck had like a 6% metagame share. I knew grief was a horrible, unfun card, but I didn’t realize it was that bad.
Good Grief huh
There always will be best deck in the format.
But blue enjoyers can't stand not seeing Delver at the top.
Restricted in timeless too
25% isn't even that much. Maybe that's just the yugioh player in me talking though. We've been some kind of 60-90+% format for well, most of almost 2 years now.
Yeah and Yugioh is an unplayable dumpster fire
@@FitGuyAZ577 yugioh has peaked in attendance during this period, despite having some of the most expensive metas during it as well
@@GodzillaFreak yugioh is a trash game no one enjoys losing on turn 1 to some absolute bs unbreakable board
@@voluntarism335 Just think of going first or second in yugioh as offense or defense in baseball instead of as the white and black of chess.
The opponent remove two cards from your hand in turn 1 is equally frustrating in Modern
Ran one of the 25% Grief decks went 0-3 last night maybe just build better decks? Multiple people from my lgs where planning on going to this event.
I dont know, personally love playing with powerful cards and loves moderns push into efficiciency over moxen ramp and such, leaving plenty of powerful atrata but still restricted into a style of deck construction to make best use of the cards
To beat grief, use grief. Honesty as a legacy player, Im not really worried about grief. Since I know I could just make a deck for that but I’m too lazy to do that.
We'll just swap Grief for Unmask.
Idk how many times I lost on turn 1 2 and 3 in legacy at least it’s fair interaction. Not dark ritual into necro and win
I love this deck and im sure alot of other people do to
I'm on reanimator, deck is busted, the mirrors are at least interesting + help you get better at legacy fundamentals, when u don't play non games grief probably should be banned. You can do dumb stuff like
T1grief reanimate
T2 entomb atraxa reanimate with daze/force backup...
Honestly the mh sets kinda screw everything up every release in both modern and legacy every release.
Legacy has force of will + swords + other better answers so it tends to suck less than when they explode modern due to there being more games with decisions that matter even when they print overpowered stuff to pad reprint equity
Grief really has to go, the play patterns are so miserable unless you're playing it so everyone ends up playing it
Fury died for Grief's sins in Modern. Fury is absolutely bonkers don't get me wrong, but Grief was always the worst pitch elemental
People called me crazy when I said Just put FoW in every deck.
Grief needs to go. Shrimpy thinks its fine tho. I feel he may be biased
Also Troll is bad because it pitches to Grief, but Lórien Revealed is super fine hahaha Sink into Stupor another example, but nobody cares to mention that. Why reanimator can't be best deck in Legacy? Why won't we talk about Force of will or daze, why always another card has to die so blue can be everywhere!
I love grief 🥺
Grief is okay in Modern. Not as impactful as a turn 1 play (even though it's definitely a great line that puts you ahead most of the time), and Modern doesn't have nearly as many good reanimate spells while there's a lot more exile-based removal being played, especially after MH3 gave white such a huge boost overall.
In Legacy, however, it's absolutely not okay and its banning is long overdue.
Whoever thought that cheap of an evoke cost on these was a good idea needs to go
I saw the title and laughed, I hate they won’t ban it but I also think due to the non reprint ability factor of legacy they don’t care about the meta and don’t mind the format dying as a whole very sad to see
literally nothing changes if they ban grief. this deck just shifts to unmask which is just as free as grief, granted it's a one time but like most times one is all they need.
We need grief banned, fury already got the axe and getting 8 grief triggers just that alone is 8 cards from your hand to gy. Now add like duress, cavern bat, lily even just make hand hate a little to strong. Especially where we can still use ensnaring bridge and rack to just drain opponents out onowing they wont have a reaction unless fhey top deck
but grief looks sooo cool though, well at least im not a modern players so i dont have a reason to hate it anyway, but i guess it getting banned would make the price go down which would be nice
I love grief sorry friends
mh2 still showing how broken it continues to be
Guys is leyine of the void a card? Im trying to figure what Magic players did vs. Delve/Izzet spells/reanimator
the answer is: it's not possible to put enough gravellard hate in a deck to fight this unless is the only thing your deck does, is the same with Hogaak
Leyline of the Void turns off the reanimation part of the deck, but they can still cast their creatures and attack your mana base with Wasteland, and use Daze and Force of Will to make sure you're not doing anything. I think Leyline of the Void is better than Leyline of Sanctity since they can always Reanimate a Troll and kill you that way, but it's not game ending like it is against Dredge.
I know this is a weird opinion but I'd ban the ring before any card in modern
grief needs to be banned in Modern and Legacy.
ive seen alot of pro-grief takes recently
ppl think it's still strong/pushed but its just more so its unfun
ive been holding off on modern until grief gets banned, nadu will go for sure in time
yea im not sure where i stand on grief the scam package is super frustrating and i think it's at least strong in modern
It's not half as frustrating as all the latest energy bullshit from mh3 tbh
Grief is double Thoughtseize + a 3/2 menace that kills you as you desperately try to rebuild. Force of Will is healthy because it's card disadvantage to stop something broken. Reactive free spells are great. Endurance is great. Proactive free spells like Grief should not be allowed in the format.
Grief in legacy not equal to grief in modern . Grief and black cards in general ( like necrodominence and orcish bowmaster )are insanely stronger in that format due to spells like dark ritual and reanimate being legal never mind the synergies in the reanimator deck. There are several things that need to be cleaned up in legacy as well as grief and it’s not gona be dealt with because wizards doesn’t care about that format.
Grief’s power in modern is not the same. You not likening it doesn’t make it ban worthy. A lot of people hate thoughtsieze effects , some people really hate mill . I hate wren and six and Boseiju. You loathe grief. It’s ok to not like stuff and that stuff can exist if it’s not oppressing the format ( like Nadu )
Dimir mill has pretty good matchups across the field especially considering how many combo decks and tron variants are out there. it’s ok if it has one terrible one in the form of the grief decks
The only deck that runs Grief and Dark Ritual together is Oops! All Spells.
Grief is annoying but legacy is a different world man how many times are you gonna make this video lol
Legacy grief is way more insane than modern grief
Why is it only now being a problem, cards been out for a long time?
It isn't ppl just crying
The new hotness hit the meta and it will adjust ..
👎I'm a grief lover
You stand alone
Grief is not that bad it’s a reason it’s been out for two years and not banned
Don't let the Grief hate distract you from the fact that Bowmasters has also been a poison. Literally the only reason Bowmasters is getting less hate right now is because it's not good against Rescaminator. The metagame is so inbred that everything revolves around whether or not you auto-lose to turn 1 double Grief. Psychic Frog works better for the game 1 plan, and Dauthi Voidwalker is better in the mirror. When Grief is banned in August, Bowmasters needs to go as well, or we will return to the extremely boring "Bowmaster your Bowmaster" play pattern.
Dude, by the actual state of modern, The One Ring should go before grief, none, NONE of the top decks of the format uses grief.
Both need to go,
Those guys who shy away from tournaments can't simply afford new decks and complaining because they can't get free wins anymore with they 10k decks.
To be honest grief seems really fair in Legacy, there are way to many stuffs you have to 2 for 1 to stop before turn 2 in order to not lose in Legacy, probably too much for Modern tho
So you're mad that it's a good deck? Why is that a bad thing? I don't get why 25% of the metagame is that big a deal. I'm just very opposed to bannings in general. I don't get why people hate on this so much.