I'll Never Weld A Bike Jump Again
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- čas přidán 1. 03. 2023
- Welding bike ramps is not something you want to go into half ready. Watch me in this video go through all the mistakes and errors someone could have while welding something like this.
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Hi, my name is Seth Gebel and I grew up in Catawissa, Missouri just outside of St. Louis. I'm very fortunate to have a playground of woods to build whatever I see fit in because Missouri riders don’t get much feature time. I’d love to change that! Hopefully, someday we’ll be able to push a build-along that benefits the public here in St Louis for MTB skills progression. For now, though, I build every weekend and film for you all to watch!
➡️ On this channel, you'll find trail-building videos with music and step-by-step shots that keep you entertained and informed! Builds like road gaps, berms, jumps, drops, trail flow, skinnies, and many others!
Combining my love of mountain bikes, woodworking, and creating something from nothing, stick around to see just where my wild mind takes me next!
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#mtb #BackyardTrailBuilds - Jak na to + styl
you were spot on with the metal contracting and shrinking, it would definitely be a better idea to get a tubing bender to make the bends than welding it because like you learned the hard way, its difficult to predict what the metal will do after being welded.
I LOL'd so hard at the ad break! 😂You could have the tension with a knife 😅
Otherwise, I totally felt your pain with the welding. I think we've all learnt something through your trials and tribulations 🙏
lol upload more pwease, and come to Western Australia
Sooo when are you guys doing a colab?
Hey BcPov, you should visit Wales and go to our bike parks
Mate, did you consider a tube bender??? They aren't that expensive and I think the cost would have more than been justified in the years of your life you would have been spared losing to all that rage and frustration from having to cut and re weld that thing so many times
I still think the answer is going to be never again 😂
Since I don't have a welder, I'll just use gussets and JB Weld metal epoxy! LOL
wait that might work
Consider this: The seamstress who never bothered buying a sowing machine says sowing is stupid and takes too long.
@@ThisIsGoogle *sewing
Square tube doesn't bend well, the inside radius tends to buckle. He had the right idea with the relief cuts but the thermal pull has to be accounted for, and thats a lesson every welder has learned the hard way lol.
As a welder, this video was a lot of fun to watch, seeing you figure out how to go about welding up the jump. Number one thing I recommend to beginners is you can never spend too much time practicing! Amazing video 🤘Also, when you are welding, when the weld cools down, it can tend to pull the pieces together a little bit, so I like to clamp the piece as much as I can to keep it steady so it doesn't contract or deform when I finish laying the bead.
I clamp and then use a lot of small tack welds before the main passes
Bro I felt so bad when you said. “ I spent all that time and it’s worse” 😂 props to you for learning as you go ! Awesome video !
I’ve been missing these videos great to see you back !
Welding is an art form 🤠 I encourage you to keep at it! It takes time to learn just like hitting big features on a bike. And I am SO EXCITED for more Howler videos!
As others have mentioned, this is heat shrinkage. Hot metal is physically larger than cold metal, so when the hot weld cools it contracts and pulls the two pieces together. You can use this to your advantage, though: if you have a piece that's warped, just lay a weld down on the long side and it'll pull it in line (this is usually done with an acetylene torch, but any sufficient heat source will do). Like weld here: ->( to get this: |
Like you discovered, you can also tack together an entire rigid weldment, make sure everything is in place to your liking, and then finish all the weld joints. This works so long as the assembly is sufficiently braced to resist the weld shrinkage forces (though you will end up with a lot of built-up stress within the piece, and this can cause other unexpected things to happen, like a whole panel tacoing on you).
So glad you're back, Seth. Also, I'm glad you're constantly learning new skills.
Nicely done :) I think we all remember our first welding project. I dove straight in with some sheet metal repair on a car and that was tricky business due to the thin nature of the metal. Big stuff is a LOT easier to not blow through. Hang in there :) Nice to see you back.
As a welder for 99 years I can confirm. The ramp is metal
i am 51. Dave is My Hero :)
Great to see some new content. Your build projects are the best on CZcams.
Exactly what you said, metal will pull to the side heat is applied. You can counter act this by tacking and welding on opposite sides. However, you can't stop it from happening.
I would have tacked the second tube to the first tube, laid some base welds, cut the tacks, then lay down the remaining welds..... Or invest in a cheap tube bender.
Love the trial and error aspect of this. Cool watching you learn to weld
I've never seen a ramp build before and that was a lot of work and you messed up so much but glad you stuck with it thanks for sharing
Nicely done and great job on your first welding project! Definitely a big one. I went through the experience of teaching myself to weld last year as well. Always something I wanted to learn to do and finally dove in building a small camping trailer (to take to go ride bikes!). I enjoy woodworking too, but after you figure out what starts happening to the stew as it heats and cool (and more importantly how to heat the steel in different areas) it gets easier. One advantage I like with steel is, if you muck it up, most of the time you can just cut your welds and redo it. That is a bit more challenging with wood..
I just built my first rock lip in my backyard trail I get a lot of inspiration from you love the videos
Nice to see you back!
Amazing to see how you've progressed over the years! Greetings from the UK you absolute Legend!! 😁🙌
watching this for a 2nd time and its pretty funny as a welder i know that the most important thing to account for is the way the metal moves as you weld it, we typically tack on both sides of the joint so one tack fixes the other
Wow! On so many levels! Really enjoyed watching and glad your friend is ok.
I need to get over there to check this out sometime. Nice work lads!
man I love welding, anyone who doesn't get it wont ever get it, lol, SOOO much fun even though prep is pretty tedious, love to see you trying it.
yeahhhhhh!!
I've been waiting a long time for you to come back with a video!!!
Me too dude 😅
Excellent content as always Seth. Hi Tom & Mary! Hope to see ya out on the trails this Spring/Summer/Fall! And yeah, tubing bender FTW next time, LOL!
Yewww, the Picasso of CZcams is back! 🤘👍
That RR Rampriders jacket tho 👀👀
Bro came back doing smth completely different, love it
Perfect 10 video my friend!
Both Seths uploaded the same day😄
nice going Dave.. turned out great, and we all hope Daves OK
I got my polygon n9 because of you!
Fabricator here. Don't do your final welds till everything is together.
Buy from your local bike shop! It is so important to support these local businesses as they are the ones that support our local communities and riders.
Great video showing your lessons learned. Thanks.
Dude your videos are awesome! The way you use the wood to make finishing touches and round everything out is so sick! BUT DUDE!! WE NEED TO SEE MORE TESTING AT THE END OF VIDEOS!! I’m dying to see your awesome stuff get ridden and then we get like 2 clips lol! Will still keep watching no matter what, awesome content, keep it up!
Your welds look as decent as any I've seen at the end. With everything you've learned, would be a shame if you didn't use those skills again. Steel frame ramps have the potential for much better durability and longevity.
Shoutout to the certified welding crew
What you experienced is weld pull. As you weld it heats up the metal sets it in its expanded state, then it cools off and contract's pulling the joint together. Once you know about it, you can use it to your advantage or correct for it. You certainly set yourself up to find out all about it with that many welds along one side of a piece of box section. Its all just experience i love working with steel and would say your feelings of steel vs wood are flopped on its head with me. Would love to see you give a metal project another go.
Best explanation yet.
You got it done dude! Wish I knew ya,I've been fab'n for about 30yrs.! We could of knocked it out in just a couple days! But ya did it and got Tommy Mac to guinea pig it for ya!👊 NICE!
That was a pleasant surprise to see my buddy Tom unexpectedly 😁
Way to go dave!
Excellent welding and you did well to deduce the source of your issues, and how to fix them. Welding lets you very easily control the degrees of freedom by adding or removing tacks and clamps. You can also make a small tack before bending or hammering a joint to stop it springing back.
Also, you'd find the process a lot less dirty if you prepped your material first - grinding and wiping off the crud, even a bit of solvent wouldn't hurt - and then did all the welding in a clean environment where you didn't have to keep reaching for your mask. It's definitely difficult but MIG is one of the cleaner processes.
I could see you using the welding skills to make some cool saddles / straps to tie your woodworking into the concrete in future builds.
This was great.
Great video!
when you put the one on top of the other with the arch you were doing the equivalent of running on the inside or outside of a running track. Keep up the good work.
Just wanna say, you're such a cool guy.
Wow that looked tough but you figured it out nice
we use steel tables at the shop to tack the metal to first. then once everything is tacked up, we weld one side (verticals) and flip it, weld the other side and then weld the top and back side so you have even distribution of heat.
Seth, it was nice meeting you at the DC cultural festival.
du bon travail 🤙
This is epic
You could've used waaayyy less perpendicular cross beams used under the launch surface in favour of using a tightly woven wire mesh.
That's what they've done on the ramps used at the Atherton's Dyvi bike park for the big ramp at the top of their Hardline course.
Saves a bucket load of weight and materials cost.
sometimes I wonder, "how in the world does btb even MAKE this kind of stuff?" his ideas are awesome 😄😄😄😄😄
Ya need some gussets on it for structure. I started to learn to weld last year hard but easy if you pay attention when someone is teaching you. The gussets will help with push from hitting it. And like swaying left to right
this hits way to hard for me and my friend, we built are first gap jump and it was way to small. but i hucked it anyway and landed extremely front heavy so, i told him to not hit it but he did anyway and knock him out cold for 10 seconds. he's fine now but we definitely learned are lesson.
Eyyyy 200.000 subscribers, congrats(spelling congratulationes is too hard for me) :DD
Damn Frodo knows how to build some jumps 👍
Nice welds dude! they're pretty clean 😉👉👉
Good thing you didn't try stick welding as your first time welding. A much bigger learning curve
For a second I thought you were gonna say “a little different but kind of the same” 😂
im a welder in Germany and i would recommend to cut a wood in the shape you want to have the ramp and heat the still up and bend it like the wood
9:13 … that’s when I figured out it’s a mustache and not just welding smoke.
Basically you want to clamp your work to a fab table, or something else if you don't have one, and then tack everything in place, alternating sides to spread the heat out. Basically weld one side, and then go all the way down to the other and weld the opposite side. That will spread the heat out and minimize distortion. Also, expect some, so weld it so it has a little bit of travel.
how did you secure the deck boards to that ramp?
Sick
Yep, that's why we usually try to tack everything together before actually welding it or at least use a bunch of braces 😄
i wonder if, long into the future, there may be a problem with welds being "welded under tension." I doubt it's going to be an issue in your case, but I wonder if that is something they warn folks against in welding school.
Time to ride ittttt
Tom's a G
🙏
Clamping that one bend to the other gives it a smaller radius. you can see that at 7:01. pretty much one tube thickness smaller radius
What bike do u have, I've been needing an upgrade for awhile now and can't find the right type.
That's not just pressure, the heat of the welds will pull the metal to a certain extent too. Welding is fun!
Check what kind of steel you were using, cold rolled steel is very common but due to it being worked cold there are a lot of internal stresses that make it pull and warp when if heated. hot rolled steel has less internal stress but it will come with mill scale on it that you need to grind off. You were also right about the weight causing it to warp as you went along, but still dont underestimate what the heat will do to it. if it were my project id do exactly what you did clamping them together and welding it as is. thats definitely more than strong enough
My man has a gold Vikkela, I'm building mine right now! First one I've seen that wasn't a review or from Pole themselves. Nice. I didn't catch the fellows name, but I'd be curious to know your thoughts on it, should you see this.
My mistake, it's the Voima, but still, like to know what you think. (Voima being the ebike, Vikkela the non-ebike). Otherwise the same.
You always have to brace your steel so it won’t pull. Weld the sides out first so it won’t mess up the transition
I'm no welder, but I'd be curious if you alternated sides (inside weld, next outside weld) and worked your way down and back, if the heat soak would be even and thus not pull things?
So far crazy cool too watch still 👨🔬
No this doesn't work. I understand what you're saying and theoretically you would think so but it doesn't work. Things still move, at different rates and different pulls and such. What will be square first time no issue, next one will have a toe in, then a toe out then square then toe out etc. Just a case of welding it up and checking it after.
Source: sheetie metal worker
@@CJONE764 baaaahaha that is awesome to know, thank you! What a pain in the ass 🤣
If you would have tacked the whole together it would help constrain it. You figured that out tho. To minimize wrapping you need to move to different parts of the tube to weld to put less heat into the tube. Weld a few spots on one section then move to the other piece allows the metal to cool off before you weld again.
BTW, this is how many projects for people new to metal fabrication. It also happens to experienced people occasionally.
The steel contracted more through heat than the trestles. Metal always ends up shrinking a small amount when welded. Account for this in your cut.
Ya know what would be a crazy build a step up whale tail that you see on crankworks freestyle lines
hey Im a red seal metal fabricator with 10 years of experience, your summary Metal melts, stretches and contracts at high temperature and it needs to be clamped to a good jig to stay in spec is good, but you missed something. Metal shrinks more than it grows when welding. Like your laundry. So it always pulls one way pretty predictably. This effect is way worse if there's a small gap. Because there's no solid metal in the gap it shrinks almost closed. Pretty relevant if you're dealing with filling a kerf (material removed due to cutting)
Pretty much no matter how you clamp it it will shrink till the gap is closed.
2" out over that distance is nothing, should just be able to wedge an end in something strong and bend by hand it to open it up.
Also spot welding is a mechanized process used to join sheet metal together by overlapping it and melting it together in a spot. It's used in factories to make automotive chassis and bodies. Tack welding is what you were doing.
Great job btw! Looks fun! Welding it with the braces already on was definitely the move!
Lol,
That helmet tho 👀
The hunger to weld will call back to you...
Stack two pieces of bread poke finger through. That’s a rough idea of “spot welding “. Tacks will hold work piece in place
Pole 👍🏻👍🏻
That was heat pulling, not the weight. You could just smack it with a big hammer until its right. Metal like that ;.)
Ad break song same as the theseknivesonly outro!
Tube bender, definitely
I love welding myself and i'd rather it than screwing wood complete opposites
Bang the money with how the metal was distorting. It heats up and expands then cools and contracts
So wait- did he get the concussion from hitting a branch?
Sorry you had a run of bad luck! From what i could see your welding looks great.I hope you give it another go in future.
If you can avoid doing cutting or grinding that dramatically reduces the grime levels 🙂
this issue is not caused by metal shrinking, contracting or stretching, etc.. so, by clamping your piece to the inside of the finished piece, you have reduced the size of the desired radius of the new piece. simply put, the outside of the curve has a bigger radius than the inside.
When everyone says "tube bender" they mean "tube roller"
hey dude the weld is exactly the same shit about ride biking
you try but you lose , you try , you try and after you win
i ride bmx and i bult some race car in belgium 😁
You got a slight misconception regarding why your tubes are contracting differently, welds shrink when they cool down.
But when you look at a weld that was allowed to cool while in compression, to a weld that cooled while in tension and they'll be WILDLY different.
Tho if I were you, seeing it mismatched by an inch to start with I'd have grabbed some big wrenches or a hammer and muscled my way to them being good enough.
First 😲 wow. Way beyond my skills. Second. The balls on that guy. Full face or sparkly helmet? How about ambulance? Thanks for sharing this with us.
the full face ended up being a good move since there was low hanging branches that hit me in the face lol
The horses had nothing to do with the warping. Welds shrink when they cool. Each one of the relief cuts are a potential spot for shrinking. A lot more tacks everywhere would've helped quite a bit or even hard packing the gaps with shim. Keep welding, you'll eventually figure out all the little tips and tricks.
Jessie is right. When you built the second curved tube, the mistake was matching the first one. You have to learn to predict the welds contracting and factor that in to the finished product. You should have built it a little bit flatter so that it ended up curving the same as the first one. Takes a lot of practice, but you’ll figure it out.
whered you go????
Great job.... especially when you had to figure out shit !