Nepotism in Warrior Cats and Thunderclan Exceptionalism
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2022
- Hello everybunny!
Today’s video goes into a discussion about the warrior cats leaders, deputies and medicine cats and how they all just happen to be related. Thunderclan takes a lot of spotlight for heroism, leaving little room for other clans to get a chance to shine.
An AVOS review as well as I talk about my thoughts and feelings about the allegiances and reliance on Firestar’s (and Thunderclan’s) legacies in regards to the other clans.
Subtitles have also been added to the video so they aren't autogenerated by CZcams. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
This is 100% true. Alot of high rank cats are related or bff to the ledar or are related to Firestar
Yeah and I never liked how when Whitestorm died he was like “I always knew greystripe was your true deputy” NO. HE LEFT THUNDERCLAN.
@@K4ndieboi he alse never treaind his apprentice
@@melaniegarcia3579 he was given an apprentice, but he never trained his apprentice.
Something else to be mentioned is that the clans used to behave like a monarchy. It was changed after the leader’s son wasn’t fit for the position, but it’s annoying that it still seems to be happening.
Oakstar’s line also has a bunch of high ranks in it: 6 leaders, 3 deputies and 4 medicine cats.
@@hollycat6654 Oakstar named both of his sons after trees, I think he intentionally did this and expected them to continue the line, if that makes any sense
Something I've noticed (not sure how relevant it is, but something I wanted to point out) is that in each generation of Oakstar's line, something goes terribly wrong.
Gen 1- Two of Oakstar's children die, and the third ends up leaving ThunderClan.
Gen 2- Pinestar's two daughters die, and his only son grows up to be the most hated enemy in recent clan history.
Gen 3- One of Tigerstar's sons (Tadpole) dies in infancy, one of his daughters (Tawnypelt) ends up leaving ThunderClan, his two remaining sons fight to the death (Bramblestar and Hawkfrost, with Hawkfrost dying a young villain). Only Mothwing seems spared any great tragedy, but she's an atheist, so by Warrior Cats standards she's already scum.
Gen 4 (and the first generation with more than one cat to pass on genetics, though none are of Sasha's line, hmm)- Two of Bramblestar's children die in infancy. Tawnypelt loses a son as a young adult, though all of her children make it to adulthood, so there's that. Tawnypelt's daughter is also murdered by her granddaughter. Tawnypelt's remaining son leaves his clan and dies, though both are fixed by the end of his book.
Gen 5- One of Sparkpelt's children dies. Sleekwhisker turns against her clan, Juniperclaw breaks the Warrior Code and is sent to the Dark Forest, and Strikestone is killed in the battle started by the Imposter and later forced to fight alongside the Dark Forest, though his spirit is freed. [Unless Sleekwhisker has secret babies somewhere, this means that the Dawnpelt/Crowfrost line is dead]. Shadowsight is manipulated constantly by the Imposter and nearly killed on several occasions, though he does live through it all.
I have no idea if any of it means anything, I just find it interesting how no one with Oakstar's blood gets to have a peaceful life.
@@marymccann3500 maybe it has something to do with Mapleshade..? even if it was with Crookedstar's permission, she did curse him, what if she cursed Oakstar to have an awful bloodline full of tragedy?
@@i_am_Plagueall roads lead to mapleshade apparently
@@marymccann3500 I would recommend saying kithood as we was a fully functional kit and I had to look it up to find it
Infancy means early childhood but- itd usually confused with infant and an infant is like how do I talk?? These kits could
hunt, climb, walk, talk and drown ❤
I would personally LOVE a time skip series in Warriors, bonus points if it's from the perspective from another clan. Like Thunderclan had an incident that had them struggle as a clan as a whole and another clan kinda "steps up" as the superior clan to offset the current power imbalance between the clans
With all the inbreeding though, all the cats are going to be related to someone important at some point. I think as long as they give other clans more POV and eventually a big time skip too I think we’ll be fine.
I literally have a dang AU where almost all of Firestar's bloodline is destroyed by vengeful BloodClan remnants (except for Nightheart, who just bailed as soon as he noticed a pattern in the deaths).
@@ZirconiaGacha W nightheart
@@oulo5019 Nightheart basically knew what he was doing was cowardly in the eyes of all Clan cats, but it was either he dies and there's nothing left of Firestar's family, or he saves his own pelt and runs away. He chose the latter, and as soon as someone else picked up the pattern they just assumed they hadn't found his body yet. So noone came looking for him. Not quite sure what he does after that, but he does live on.
This is why I liked the Super Editions. I didn’t have to worry about the MC being related to Firestar half of the time so I can actually feel truly attached to the other characters.
the problems in warriors always make me love aus/rewrites and makes me want to make my own rewrite
it probably deserves it anyway
I’d love a series just about WarriorClan!
i can relate
@@SunneyRabbit you mean clanwarriorclan right? (moonkitti joke)
@@SunneyRabbit YES
One aspect with Thunderclan favoritism I see overlooked is how the group chosen to find the lake in A New Prophecy all have Thunderclan blood except for Crowpaw. I can see why they chose who they did, fan favorites/easily recognizable names, but they already have that with 4/6 cats going on the journey. You could also make the argument of "they were going for a 'bloodlines aren't what makes the clans' message", but they really could've just not included either Tawnypelt or Feathertail/Stormfur as the Starclan chosen, we don't need 3 cats for that message. They could've chosen any other cat and had one of those three (depending on what cat is swapped out) follow them like Squirrelpaw had.
Brightheart should've been a deputy and later leader instead of Bramblestar.
Brightheart definitely deserved more than she got. Couldn't even get her own apprentice.
Sometimes I think that Brackenfur should have been made deputy instead of Brambleclaw/star. He was a experienced warrior and being named deputy would fit so well on him.
Remember when the second arc said Firestar’s time with prophecies focused on him was over? That’s one of the few things I wish wasn’t forgotten in the first few arcs.
I am most thrilled to watch a warrior cat video described to me not by another cat fursona, but a rabbit. This was pleasant. Though yeah, I would LOVE a series from the POV of Windclan with some distance between Thunderclan
As a cat persona user, I can advocate for content creators using other animal as personas. Spices up the community and stands out more
@@mysryuza yeah, spicy.
Crowfeather is also the son of Onestar’s first deputy, Ashfoot, so he’s had 2 deputy parents.
In the current fanfic’s I’m writing, when Larchstar becomes leader of ThunderClan, his first deputy was 1 of his 2 former mentors (the one that didn’t retire), Lichenfur. She dies at the start of the story and after everything Larchstar and ThunderClan goes through, he chooses Mossflower, a young warrior originally forced into retirement after becoming disable but still stepped up to keep a dying ThunderClan together while Larchstar was missing. His reason was that she proved herself capable and deserved a life, but he also understood that with her injury (a burn scar across her shoulders that limited the mobility of her front legs) gave her limits, so as deputy she could set the pace for herself and her new mate- a three legged she-cat named Rosie- and any other cats with mobility issues that may come to ThunderClan.
In the arch following that superedition, leadership change 4 times in 3 different Clans. SkyClan’s original leader lied about having nine lives, which is revealed after her deputy was killed by the SkyClan protagonist (Birchfrost) and her brother (Furzestar) when the deputy tries to attack a queen and kit. The Clan chooses the Furzestar to lead them, he gets nine lives, and makes Birchfrost (who originally left because the Clan found out she was lesbian and turned on her, the cat attacked was her new mate Doveheart and Doveheart’s younger half brother, Bravekit, both of which were loners before going to SkyClan with Birchfrost) because he knows she won’t let her feelings for her Clan cloud her judgment. Then their father leaves and blames Birchfrost and their mother, Brookpelt, for all of SkyClan’s recent hardships because Brookpelt didn’t really love him, but was forced to be his mate to give SkyClan new kits. Furzestar goes insane and leads and attack on RiverClan with a large group of rogues, which only solves itself when ThunderClan and WindClan join the fight on RiverClan’s side and Birchfrost kills him, taking his first life. He agrees to step down after a talk with StarClan, but StarClan refuses to accept Birchfrost out of fear that she may turn out like him. RiverClan’s “rightful” leader had died in the fight, so they have to wait for a sign from StarClan, which ends up choosing Doveheart. She makes the brother of the leader previous to Furzesong her deputy because he proved his loyalty to SkyClan by always opposing her.
In RiverClan, Shadestar was the reason why Whitewhisker (Furzestar’s predecessor as SkyClan leader) was never given nine lives. He abused his power and StarClan knew she would too (which she did). When his deputy died in an unwarranted attack on WindClan after allowing his cats to terrorize WindClan patrols, StarClan told the medicine cats that Pikefang HAD to be the new deputy. Pikefang tried to get Shadestar to see reason for far longer than her should have, finally deciding to make a stand after watching Shadestar give his most loyal cat the order to kill a very new, very young ShadowClan apprentice who accidentally crossed the border. Pikefang got help from ShadowClan with the help of a cat who used to follow Shadestar, Heathernose. They originally planned for a peaceful coup with ShadowClan’s backing, but Shadestar resisted, resulting in a big fight in RiverClan camp and many deaths. Shadestar, on his last life, took his followers and fled before he could go to the Moonpool to officially give up his title as leader. He forms RageClan with his followers, cats that left SkyClan after Furzestar took over, and a lone ShadowClan cat. In the SkyClan attack on RiverClan, Pikefang kills Shadestar to protect his mate, Heathernose’s brother Foxbush. He gets his nine lives and chooses Heathernose as his deputy because while she did originally agree with Shadestar, she realized her mistake and did the right thing by opposing him.
In WindClan, Swallowstar is mauled by a dog and her deputy (a super young warrior named Breezefeather) has to step up as leader much sooner than expected. But StarClan won’t speak to him when he goes to the Moonpool. His unofficial deputy is his best friend, Branchtail. They work hard to protect WindClan and rebuild after the Shadestar mess. Then, a gang of rogues from Twolegplace attacks them and Branchtail, a new father at this point, dies protecting Breezefeather. Breezefeather’s medicine cat brother Jayflight receives a sign that this is what StarClan was waiting for and takes Breezefeather back to the Moonpool. Breezefeather needed all nine cats giving him his lives to be important to him and they were- his former leader and deputy predecessor, his former mento, her brother who helped with his training, his friend who was killed by RiverClan for sport as an apprentice, a the father of his apprentice who he greatly admired, both of his parents, his best friend. When the Clans battled the Twolegplace rogues to drive them out of the forest, Breezestar had the chance to kill their leader, but the memory of his always forgiving friend (Branchtail) and he gift with the life his mentor’s brother gave him (Fawndaple giving him the gift of mercy) reminded him that warriors don’t need to kill to win a fight. After the battle, he chooses Branchtailks mate (the sister of Breezestar’s mate) Willow, who then requests she be named Willowbranch in memory of Branchtail, because the both want to make WindClan strong and safe and a Clan Branchtail would have been proud to call his own.
In the arch after that, only one leader steps down. ShadowClan’s leader Harkstar. His only daughter was having her second litter, his granddaughter that had joined SkyClan had her own kits, his granddaughter in ShadowClan was expecting her first litter, and the mate of one of his grandsons was also expecting for the first time. On top of that, he was old and his joints were getting stiff. With everything that was happening, he felt it best to step down and let a younger cat take the lead. His deputy if the ShadowClan protagonist- Flamestorm, a three-legged trans she-cat. She’s scared at first that she won’t be good enough, but her Clan reassures her that she’ll make a great leader, that she was the fastest, fiercest cat in ShadowClan despite her disability and she would be an equally fierce and confident a leader as she was a warrior. She agrees and is given her nine lives. The deputy she chooses is her uncle, Darkfire, to prove that she knows he’s innocent after the other Clans mistak him for the cat who mauled and blinded her mother- he is one of 3 sons and the one who actually did it was the middle son, the ShadowClan cat that had joined RageClan and then the Twolegplace rogues, Sunclaw, because he was furious that her mother chose his younger brother of him.
Totally forgot that Ashfoot and Deadfoot were both Crowfeather's parents AND Windclan deputies until I was editing.
Love your fanfic btw! It's so cool to see how fans make their own clans. Fanfics always allow more flexibility with cats having disabilities, leadership changes and in Flamestorm's case, trans identities.
@@SunneyRabbit I have several trans cat lol before I understood what transgender meant, I would just pair same sex characters together and they would magically have babies. After learning and understanding, I changed some of those gay characters to trans characters, while others that I wasn’t as attached to I made straight couples because they are more backgrounds characters. The ThunderClan leader I mentioned, Larchstar, is gay and in a poly relationship with Houndheart and Frogfoot, who used to be from RiverClan. And I’ve been experimenting with writing nonbinary characters, Breezestar’s brother is mates with Strawberry, who is just listed as a tabby and the ThunderClan protagonist from the arc before Flamestorm is in, has a child that’s questioning their gender identity- I plan to make a shorter story with them figuring themselves out, since they aren’t the ThunderClan protagonist (tho that one is also a trans lol a spunky little kitty named Honeyshine).
@@SunneyRabbit Deadfoot, maybe not, that's either a mistake or a retcon because Deadfoot was dead long before Crowfeather was ever born.
If you look at the Thunder clan allegiances now, you’ll see that almost everyone is descended from either Firestar or Cloudtail, or both. Everyone else is killed off or an elder, so there will be lots of problems with inbreeding in the future
Cloverfoot and Harestar lovers rise 😌
I'm not on the recent books, but too be honest I've heard all the rants. Maybe making the eras in the future (Where you don't know if they are Firestar's actual kin and none of the existing characters are alive anymore.) Or go back in time with Dawn of the clans, those books were going somewhere!
“firestar jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr jr get up and go lead”
I was gonna be mad that Crowfeather was included, but he and Harestar definitely have something going on so I can see how that can also count as nepotism
yupppp spot on with your points lmao
also a small sidenote, i keep hearing a clicking in your audio but this isnt a complaint i think it adds a certain charm somehow? idk about rabbits but i know lots of small animals make a similar noise sometimes and i always hear it as a verbal tic which is a nice lil touch even tho im pretty sure it isnt intentional lol
What I also noticed when reading the Field Guides is how many apprentices of deputies/leaders succed them. It is insane how early succession seems to be determined, because as a warrior there are very limited ways to move up. If you're not the current leaders kin, part of a prophecy/ a POV character or apprenticed to a leader then it is insanely unlikely you will become deputy or leader (sometimes the mates or best friends of leaders become deputies too). But if you don't like the current leader and are ambitious you should just leave the Clan at this point.
IVE BEEN WAITING TO SEE THIS TOPIC OMFG
It bothered me for so long I had to make a video about it lol
I loved this video! I’m excited for the next one
Thank you so much! That means a lot
just binged all of your content 😭❤
I've watched a couple of your videos and I really enjoy them. You deserve more subs!
Glad you like them. Discussing Warrior Cats is really fun!
I’m sorry but…
Tigerfart ❤❤❤
my fave arc is dawn of the clans. the power of three and omen of the stars arent that great but they both have thier moments, and jayfeather is one of fave characters (along side grey wing ofc). i dont plan on reading a vision of shadows , currently i am just reading old super editions like crookedstars promise.
Deadfoot being father of Crowfeather is retcon and is also stupid. I do not believe this.
It doesn’t make any sense. That would also mean both of Crowfeather’s parents were deputies at one point (deputy Breezepelt when?)
@@SunneyRabbit Moonkitti talked about this in her video about Deadfoot. But based on New books it was confirmed that Onestar's sister is Ashfoot so....
There is so many layers to the WindClan deputy/leader positions. It completely slipped my mind that Ashfoot and Onestar are siblings
@@SunneyRabbit And that is just awkward. They also made Heathertail his daughter so... Yeah more incest. And he had Heather with Whitetail, his Apprentice. Gives me Dustpelt and Ferncloud vibes.
Onestar’s confession does believe this and would like to disagree with you lol
This was my comment on a different video but I think it makes sense here so I’ll copy paste it
I hate thunderclan
They’re main-characterd the entire series and I’m sick of it, ESPECIALLY the ones related to Firestar, like, he’s dead! We can move on!
They break the code so much and yet are considered the most pure and just of the clans
I read on kindle and highlight every sentence where thunderclan shows narcissism and self love. There’s a LOT.
They have so many plain-out perfect hunters and fighters and leaders. Like Sparkpelt, who as Sparkpaw would just walk into a bush and be like ‘oh wow a mouse guess I’m just so LuCkY and sKiLlEd’ right in front of her obviously discouraged brother who has been mopey and emo after being demoted/promoted to med cat.
Firestar. He has no flaws and is practically WORSHIPPED throughout the series. ‘All hail Firestar!’ They all say. ‘He’s so great!’ They all say. He’s also so dead!
Thank you for reading my vent about why thunderclan should go rot in a pit bc they’re overused
You're right but to be fair, there's not a huge gene pool in the clans.
Hell yeah down with lesser Tigerstar!
(warning, unsuitable for described comment; emoticon jibberish may be unsuitable to read if you're blind)
while we're talking about inbreeding, can we please have the headcannon that some of the cats have crossed or wall facing eyes and misaligned jaws?
like,
/∆\----------/∆\
/ ᓂ >˵▾˵< ᓀ \
\ ^ /
When you think about it, nearly all the protagonists have that strong lineage see stuff going on for them, even DotC characters. Only exceptions I can think of are Tallstar and Mapleshade, heck even Tallstar is no exception if you accept him as Jake's mate.