Homophobia in Warriors: How Deep Does it Go? | Warrior Cats Analysis
Vložit
- čas přidán 6. 08. 2022
- After reading the Tallstar's Revenge Super Edition, I delve into a rabbit hole of research: uncovering a deep-seated prejudice that still haunts modern fiction to this day...
TALLSTARXJAKE ARTISTS (all on Twitter)
@PitaPeeps
@victorottonoth1
@melonix_
@lurker_angie
@rioblitzle
@CorgiArtsi
@polaroidraptor (Instagram: Polaroidraptorr | DeviantArt: PolaroidRaptor)
@BristleCrow
@Dianach95128565
@CYBERP4WZ
@Coalchaser (DeviantArt: xCoalchaser | Tumblr: chasingcoal | @coalchaser1855)
@wolfisblank
@FeyNekoArt
@SachiHitsujiyam (@SachikoHitsujiyama)
SOURCES
Kate Cary confirms Tallstar and Jake are a couple:
web.archive.org/web/2018052216...
Kate Cary's comments on including same-sex relationships in Warriors:
web.archive.org/web/2018060623...
Russian law source:
www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-adv...
American Library Association Article:
www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/f...
FAN ARTIST
@lightningflower5 on Instagram
➜ SUBSCRIBE HERE: / @hawkkz
➜ MY TWITTER: / wc_hawkkz
SPRITE ARTIST
@Vespabuggie
Copyright Disclaimer: Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act of 1976, allowance is made for fair use for purposes such as criticism, comment, review, news reporting, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.
All rights belong to their rightful owner(s).
TAGS:
#warriorcats #warriors
Fiction book, fantasy, xenofiction
Warriors (Warrior Cats) is a series of novels based on the adventures and drama of multiple Clans of feral cats created by Victoria "Vicky" Holmes. The series is primarily set in a fictional forest, and later by a lake, in which fights and disputes over territory often occur between the groups: ThunderClan, ShadowClan, RiverClan, WindClan, and SkyClan as well as StarClan, the Dark Forest (The Place of No Stars), and BloodClan. Published by HarperCollins and edited by Working Partners (now owned by Coolabi), Warriors is written by authors Kate Cary and Cherith Baldry, as well as others, under the collective pseudonym Erin Hunter. Tui T. Sutherland, another writer for the series, also went on to create the Wings of Fire novels and manga. In 2021, an official ROBLOX game by the name of "Warrior Cats: Ultimate Edition" (WCUE) was released finally growing the franchise beyond the original books with much success on TikTok. The Warrior Cats fandom is deeply rooted in animation, art, drawings, OCs (original characters), ships (shipping), animation memes, and various Warrior Cats PMVs, AMVs, animatics, and Warrior Cats MAPs (multi-animator projects) among other forms of animated media. Some of its most popular characters include Firestar (Fireheart), Graystripe, Ravenpaw, Sandstorm, Spottedleaf, Cinderpelt, Tallstar, Swiftpaw, Brightheart, Cloudtail, Bluestar, Yellowfang, Snowkit, Mapleshade, Crookedstar, Hawkfrost, Tigerstar (Tigerclaw), Ashfur, Sol, Scourge, Mothwing, Crowfeather, Feathertail, Squirrelflight (Squirrelstar), Leafpool, Bramblestar (Brambleclaw), Jayfeather, Hollyleaf, Dovewing, Ivypool, Lionblaze, Rootspring, Shadowsight, Bristlefrost, Nightheart, Sunbeam, Frostpaw, and Alderheart. And for more than 20 years, its fame (and respective infamy) has brought fans and countless readers alike together from across the world. - Zábava
I've said it many times: if a child is old enough to see straight people romance, they're old enough to see gay people romance. And kids can handle romance pretty young, it's um... other parts of relationships that are for adults.
*THIS*
Literally. Like gay relationships aren't explicit. Adult things are explicit for any gender.
@RooksBloodWarrior cats is literally a winner of children book awards. It’s a children series and people need to quit excluding children from the fandom and not allowing three to exist to make ocs that might not fit the lore. We ALL found these books as CHILDREN in school libraries FOR CHILDREN. So, it’s not an adults series BUT AND HUGE BUT your opinion is valid.
EXACTLY OMFG
Love this video! Probably a nitpick, but the term "transgenderism" is not a thing. _Being transgender_ is a thing, but "transgenderism" is a term that implies it's a doctrine or ideology instead of just another of the infinite variations of human existence. It's also a term that (at least at one point) was frequently used by Prager U and FOX News types before they just decided to switch to calling us "gr××mers". I know that nothing bad was meant here- heck, the entire video is clearly pro-LGBT cats in all flavors of the rainbow! -but I just figured I'd try and educate since I didn't see any comments about it when I posted this.
Thank you! I didn't know that. Most of this script was kind of botched while I was staying up late to write it and I didn't get the time to properly go back and check all of my verbiage.
I appreciate your insight! I'll be sure to correct myself in the future ❤️
i mean, coming from another trans person, in the context it was used in here i didn’t see anything wrong with it?
@atlix x2 So my last comment misproccessed your reply, so genuinely sorry about that! 😅 I had like a whole thing written up and I didn't even read the comment right lol.
To actually clarify: It's still not the best in this context as the word "transgenderism" itself opens the gates to treat trans people as members of an ideology, and that implies that there's any merit in "debating" it. Using the phrase "homosexuality and transgender people" or "homosexuality and gender variance" would've probably been better, though the sentence structure would've had to been changed slightly and the first one is clunky as hell to say. Hopefully this makes my issues with the word "transgenderism" being used clearer.
Again, this isn't to attack anyone for saying words that make sense in terms of sentence structure! I identify as queer, so ragging on anyone for using a word with negative connotations (past or present) in a non-negative way would be comically hypocritical of me. This is also not to say that all other trans people have to think the same was as me or else they're Super Evil And Bad™, because we're not a monolith and being treated like a monolith is an actively harmful thing. This is just your local pedantic trans internet nerd giving his take and trying to educate and/or communicate.
@@lalas181 yea that’s completely fair. Not the best word to use without thinking about it first. I guess it depends pretty heavily on context. ^^
Thank you for pointing that out! Beautifully worded! The word upsets me. :< It doesn't ruin the video for me at all of course, but yeah!
This was a great video, and a topic we need more about! People using "foreign homophobic countries" as an excuse never sits right with me, so I'm glad that you're bringing light to the fact that the US is just as responsible as any other place. This is a long, hard fight and will need readers to come together and be willing to fight for that change rather than accepting excuses that demonize people living in countries with more restrictive media laws.
Yeah some americans act like their country have liberty or best morals and feel like they have the right of impossed what they think is the best
Wait ik this is a good thing to fight for but during the process of fighting for the rights,how plp from very homophobic countries can be able to read the books?
@@luisemel9182 People can find books on the internet. Also, we have our own people making movies, shows and books and fighting against these laws. People in homophobic countries do not need progressive countries to save them, we need the support when we fight for our rights, whether it is spreading awareness or financial support or political support.
@@PixylMawthzwait what do u mean by don't need progressive countries to save them :0?
Hey, they wouldn’t be a large corporation if they didn’t focus a lot more on the profit side of things
(Yes Ik- Serious topic- But first joke before I say anything of the topic-)
TallTail: I.. Have feelings for you.
Jake: I also have feelings for you.
Erins/Editors/Harper Collins: The feeling was friendship, which neither had felt before-
Ok but seriously though-
Censorship and book banning is not cool-
I feel so bad for her, knowing if she wasn’t controlled by a publisher, I wonder how much more she could’ve gave us. I understand keeping some things in our head, because you know realistically it’s very hard to make it a reality when life and some rules that need to be changed stomps on your true potential.
It really is a shame. Kate Cary loves and cares about the community and does everything in her power to give us her best stories, but she's clearly being limited on what she can write into the books at times.
I mean... They're already sleeping in the same bed. There's not much else you can do in a children's book besides say the word "boyfriend."
This kind of censorship only creates more prejudice. People will say that publishers don't include LGBTQ+ representation because it's banned in other countries. But the same things are being banned in the U.S.! The laws in other countries are not an excuse for companies anywhere censoring LGBTQ+ themes, just to make more money. The U.S. is not blameless in perpetuating homophobia, and using other countries as an excuse to keep doing so only serves to further stigmatize the topic.
Im happy usa is banning lgbt
Its not like you need lgbtq
@HappyGator19 yes you need to show it to kids so they don’t develop a prejudice
Thank you for including my artwork in the video! Russia is such a weird country, since we have basically two series of gay-coded characters: Warriors and Maze Runner, that's the ones I know. Russian teens (except some block-headed boys) are embracing LGBTQA+, but our government thinks that it is going to "ruin" out government, same as people who are child-free (like myself). I don't understand why tho, in 2000s it was okay to sing SONGS about gays and whatnot (our most popular song was Gay Boy by T.a.t.u), but in 2010s they just said: nopenopenope, that's a propaganda and unholy. It is true that our population is declining, but it isn't bc of gays, it is bc of the poverty and working conditions, taxes and other payments we must do. If you do not find a good job in a big city - you are basically doomed with living from one salary to another. People do not want to have children bc of this, not bc we are gay.
Sorry for this megarant, just needed to say stuff.
No problem! And thank you for your artwork, I appreciated it a lot ❤️
I'm sorry to hear about all of that. The world's in a pretty messed up place right now. Here's hoping things get better in the future.
@@Hawkkz it's okay. Yeah, there is hope in this world, we just need to wait and see.
I just wanted to share this just to showcase the scale of the Russian problem larger, as a Russian citizen myself. Hope it brought some more light into that
I have always wondered why I was put up for adoption(I was born in Russia) and this makes a lot of sense. I was adopted by an American family in 2001 before they banned Americans from adopted from there. Note: I was adoption when I was 6 months old so I don't know Russian 😅.
Also: I was born in Saint Petersburg if you're curious
@@samwich9498 oh my, we are from the same city! Hello!!!
But yeah, makes sence
@@SachikoHitsujiyama wow! Hello 👋 it's amazing to meet someone who's from there too!
As a librarian myself, I can confirm that queer literature aimed at kids is something that people in the US definitely have temper tantrums about- the library I work at actually got any open endorsement of LGBTQIA themes banned in any county institution for ten years because someone made a pride month display that a patron took offense to, and it ended up on all the local media outlets. Thankfully this rule has since been reversed, and I make it a point to do something for pride month every year in both the kids and adult sections.
Worth noting, since you brought up the American Library Association, public libraries are actually protected by the ALA and for the most part don't have to honor demands to ban books unless they pose an actual tangible hazard (IE telling kids it's okay to eat bleach). Book banning is MOSTLY an issue in school libraries- that said, young kids are way more likely to get books from their school libraries than from the public library unless their parent is super gung-ho about encouraging them to read, so it's definitely still a massive, massive issue.
Thank you so much for taking the time to leave a comment! It's always insightful to hear from people actually working in the industry. While I, myself, am largely only familiar with its effects in schools (given that I'm recently a former student), I'm glad to hear that there are measures in place to protect our youth from censorship. I just wish that accessibility would eventually apply to our school systems as well.
It’s a similar case with ravenpaw and barley or leafpool and Mothwing, etc
I love tallstar and jake along with all of these couples
I wish they would fully write and confirm their canonicity as a couple
They could easily write different versions for different countries
Hopefully lgbtq+ rights gets good enough in all countries so that it’s able to be confined instead of just hinted at
It’s horrible that this is still an issue even in places like the US, but I suppose if it’s hinted at we as fans canon agree on it even if it’s not specifically stated.
Stuff like this deserves attention as the more attention it is given the more rights can gain progress.
As an lgbt person myself these characters will always be lgbt and I hope they are able to be confirmed one day along with room for more stories
Leafpool and mothwing is the less canon lgbt relationship.
They bareley have conection as lovers
@@Amanecer458 True, I was more so referring to the other two and probably should have made the distinction, but it is a potential ship that people bring up
@@Amanecer458 If you reread Leafpaw's scenes in early TNP, there is a LOT of text of her thinking and talking about how beautiful, smart, and talented Mothwing is, up until her relationship with Crowfeather happens. This happens with other female characters that Leafpaw interacts with as well, but it's a repeated thing with Mothwing to the point where if one of them was a tom, people would think Leafpaw was in love with Mothwing.
@@hissingwillows668 I feel like Leafpool would be bisexual. It sucks that people think that one can only go one way or the other, hence erasing bisexuality. It's like when people claim that when a bisexual person is at first with someone of their own gender and then starts dating someone of a different gender that they "were straight all along" and have the idea that being queer isn't real or a phase.
Sorry for the rant 😅 I just feel like that's one way that people disregard leafpool's feelings toward mothwing just because she got with crowfeather
RavenxBarley is phedophilia, Mothpool is cute, and Tallstar x Jake is also cute.
Great video! Your sprite shaking with rage is honestly such a mood. As someone who’s absolutely gone on record talking about how much I love Tallstar’s Revenge, the “they’re are just really good, super specials *friends*” that the book end on always leaves a bad taste in my mouth. And like others have said, companies using the excuse of “needed to cater to an international market” is just a hollow excuse to line their pockets with more cash.
I don’t know that Warriors will ever change its ways (barring lgbtq+ content suddenly because more profitable no matter where they sell the books) but bringing awareness to this subject is a good first step and the least we can do when discussing these books and other media that likes to sidestep giving proper representation.
tennelle i found this comment lol so imma just say your art is amazing hope the comment isnt too random :')
Proshippers leave a bad taste in my mouth, as well.
@@garden_creature what does this have to do with proshippers?
I remember at one point in Ravenpaw’s Farewell, one of the kits asked wether Barely and Ravenpaw were going to have any kits. When he replies no, knowing the kit couldn’t understand how complicated the question was, it sort of rubbed me the wrong way. The Erin’s were very clearly queer coding Barely and Ravenpaw, so, so many times, but it was never officially cannon in the series. Not even as Ravenpaw was dying, neither mate said an “I love you.” Why? Because of homophobia. It’s so disappointing how queer people cannot be accepted. There are many things I love that make my heart happy, like Amphibia, Owl House, She-Ra and the Princess of Power, and Wings of Fire, that cannon same sex relationships and transgender characters, but I wish Warriors could join their ranks. This video is amazing. People speak up about this issue, but this was a whole other level. Even proper research! This is just fantastic, truly. Thank you.
I wish Warriors was a bit more like WOF in general. There are many canonically queer characters in that book series, and the funny thing is is that Tui (the writer of WOF) was also a writer on Warrior Cats! I wish they would just outright say this character is gay, or lesbian, or bi, or trans. I hope Nightheart (newest protag) is a trans molly (trans women) bc that would warm my heart. It's very obvious that Night is trans coded just by reading the books! But idk if they'll commit to it
@@falcon_arkaig yeah, that would be really sweet to see, even if it's unlikely. Fortunately, the online community tends to head canon characters like Ravenpaw X Barly, Sleekwhisker X Needletail, and so forth. :)
L
@@dragonwing8319 NOOOOOO
NOT SLEEKWHISKER AND NEEDLETAIL! THAT MAKES IT SO MUCH MORE SAD! NOOOOO
@@dragonwing8319 POOR ALDERHEART
I think wings of Fire is what warriors could have been, Tui (the author) actually gave representation and there’s definitely similarities between the two series I just think WoF took the extra step
THIS!!! Honestly it’s one of the reasons that I now prefer WoF to Warriors. I love they were willing to take that extra step
@@snowikitt1558 EXACTLY
I agree
Fr WoF was more enjoyable to read than Warriors
I wonder why the publishers are so afraid of the same-sex relationship in the book. I am Polish, it is literally the most homophobic country of the European Union (we don't have lgbt-friendly law in Poland, for example marriage cannot be gay) and despite this lgbt books are available, you can even see that these are the most popular books in bookstores! If Russia and China don't publish a few books, will it be such a financial problem for publishers? I don't think so.
Yeah, I saw heartstopper at the airport a month ago
@@sup7499 yeah, Heartstopper has been the most popular book in bookstores in the youth book categories since it was published. Polish teens loves Heartstopper.
They're heavily religious. A lot of their views on females and male relationships including how the female cats can function in society is extremely based on a religion.
Even Chinese audiences are open to same-sex relationships. Explicitly gay stories like Mo Dao Zu Shi and Sha Po Lang received widespread attention and still have huge fan bases to this day. It’s possible it won’t be published, but there would definitely be interest in it, and people would purchase it from overseas.
Well, our mother Russia wanted to ban an ice cream brand cus it was RAINBOW, do I need to say something else? (And even then, I think russian community of wc is not as big as european, so not publishing some books wouldn't been much of a trouble)
It’s really disheartening, all of this. In media, I absolutely adore strong platonic relationships. I think they’re underrepresented and that’s really sad. It’s also terrible how they’re seen on a relationship hierarchy as something lesser than romance. But, I hate how they’re only included at the exclusion of queer relationships. The only times characters are allowed to love each other platonically is when they are of the same gender, and so the writers/publishers will keep them platonic to avoid them being queer. And that’s really sad. This is true for other characters in warriors too of course, like Ravenpaw and Barley, who through their words and actions very clearly love each other, but it’s not allowed to be explicit. Or a more egregious example, Mothwing and Leafpool. I find this one more frustrating because they put Leafpool into a forced heterosexual romance with Crowfeather despite their lack of interactions and chemistry before and after they got together. I’m happy that doesn’t stop the fans though, Bi Leafpool for the win!
Another example I’d like to bring up is Hollyleaf. Not a lot of people talk about this, but Hollyleaf had mentioned before that she dislikes the idea of finding a mate or having kits. The fandom usually brushes this off though and likes to say she’s a lesbian, which, while everyone is allowed to headcannon these characters as whatever they want, it’s really sad to see possible Aromantic representation swept under the rug by the fandom. And by the Erin’s too, as on the official family tree Hollyleaf is said to be mates with Fallen Leaves.
I really love your take on this subject, and I hope that maybe one day, we’ll get the representation we deserve :)
Fallen Leaves + Hollyleaf queerplatonic relationship FTW??
(Favorite QPR will always be Longmouse though)
Ignore the family tree on Hollyleaf. She explicitly said she didn't want a mate and kits, her whole life was untainted by romance and her thing with Fallenleaves seemed more platonic anyways imo. She's totally aroace
Aromantic people still can fell in love, but its very rare tho and not common. So Hollyleaf can still be Aromantic and love Fallenleaves, or be asexual. Or aroace, maybe.
@@Lost_Eclipse I mean true but c'mon, even putting aro part of Holly aside, the FallenHolly thing as anything more than friendship is really icky. Blossomfall and Thornclaw/Pinestar and Leopardfoot age gaps are one thing, this is a lot worse. Hes hundreds of years old and holly was prolly about 1 and a half-two years of age. It feels wrong on a moral level to ship them imo. At least CinderHolly isnt bad with age, though its still uncomfortable for the incest reason.
Wait hollyleaf is canonically mates with fallen leaves? Isnt he like, an 1000000000 year old ghost?
I was in Warrior Cats Convent and there was a meeting with Vicky Holmes. And Vicky talked a lot about Ravenpaw/Barley. She told that when she was writing anything about Raven she always write like Barley and he was in romantic relationship. When she was ask question about how canon that ship is she told us that they are 100% canon. And it's true that WaCa has like no clear representation but when you read the book and you see the line like "Every cat he loved" and Jake make apprence you should know that is no in your face way to tell rider that those two are in love.
Yes- and that line in Graystripes vow from barely 😭💕 Graystripe said "you must miss him" and Barley replied with "with every breath I breathe" which has been said by canon couples after their mate dies on the book. Like for example, Dustpelt said something similar. I just thought it was such a good touch
Great video! I remember being online in the 2010's and the ridiculous pushback people got from just suggesting that some of the cats can be gay or trans. If you're coming into it all recently, you might think that there are more canon LGBT cats than there really are considering all of the art and videos of some couples like TallJake or LeafpoolxMothwing, but back then people would harassed for it
I remember this vividly when I was into the roleplaying scene when I was younger. There was a huge pushbsck especially toward trans characters, most people were using the, "they're cats" argument when this book franchise is about cats worshiping the same religion and having magical powers. Yet being trans or gay is too much..yeah
@@bobtheball5384 I like to put it like this: if the cats are at a level where they can have gender roles, then the cats can also be trans.
@@diddykitty746
In some degree cats in the books do have gender roles, father and mother cats have different expectations when it comes to taking care of their children and how much of a bond is needed for their offspring. But I feel like it could also expand just beyond gender expectation since calico cats are often more likely be female rather than male and or the chances of intersexuality appearing in cats as well.
@@bobtheball5384 Yes, I comepletely agree. Sorry if I worded it weirdly :3
trans cats lmfao
I've been chronologically rereading all of the series now that I'm 100% caught up to current and this has been something that stabs me in the heart as a gay trans man. Cisheteronormativity (and to a certain extent, Christian morals surrounding it) permeates these books so hard.
I think it's important to also recognize a lot of the younger audience for these books never really sees the back end reasons *why* LGBTQ topics never get addressed in this story. They just see the lack of it. When I was a child I knew something was missing from warriors in that direction, but I didn't know what; I didn't know what I was missing in my own identity either. Once I figured out what I didn't understand/wasn't recognizing about myself, I think it was part of the reason I left Warriors behind for a while when I did. I felt like I grew beyond this cloaked world where only cishet relationships/people existed/were acknowledged, but Warriors never did.
Which hurt a lot, because it was and is foundational to me. So I really... really wish they'd stop dancing around the issue, like you say.
Well, there are a few problems. One problem is the series is written by so many people that, honestly, they've messed up their own morals. I'm a Christian so I do like that there are Christian morals in the books, however. Just like lgbtq+ people, Christians have a lot of misrepresentation and I think these books show both sides of religions well (the good and the bad sides, I mean), as well as the inner and outer conflict that religious people face. Christianity has just as bad of a censorship issue in some places. I guess maybe it's harder for Warriors to be able to slip lgbtq+ content than religious themes past Harpercollins because it's more straightforward. StarClan is less direct since it's a made-up belief within the series that has bits and pieces of religions in it but with no ties to one real-life religion. Plus we have to keep in mind that human concepts aren't really prominent in this series. As far as Warriors is concerned, actual real religions, the lgbtq+ community, and even languages (to an extent) aren't actually a thing. Labels that we have are established to not exist.
I'm not sure how the authors at hand can fix this issue, since it seems to have a lot to do with different countries and Harpercollins itself even. I don't think trans characters will ever be in Warriors but I do think the authors will, at the very least, continue adding gay characters. Going forward, there is the likelihood of that happening more, though Harpercollins has the last word. Even though I don't think they will have anything regarding gender identities, since that isn't likely a thing in this cat universe, I do think they will likely expand on more same-sex couples, especially given how overpopulated the Clans are beginning to get.
Although I should also note: I personally think that if the authors want to be more traditional, we should respect that. The world was a simpler place back when the series started so it's understandable that a bunch of 40+ year old women would prefer to keep that format.
@@joltyflare With all due respect, this feels like a roundabout way of justifying never bringing any queer themes into Warriors, which feels like at the least a microaggression, and more likely a well meaning but still pervailing subtle homophobia.
The point of this video is that the authors *haven't* added gay characters explicitly- we as a community are simply asking for two toms or she-cats to be clearly represented as a couple in the text (without having to read between the lines).
And I actually disagree that the cats "aren't people"- the authors have stated before that they are writing the cats as though they're human, not cats. Moonkitti's video on "the cats are people" is a very good collection of reasons why this isn't true.
I respect your beliefs, I however, also wish I could see myself in a series which means a lot to me, and wish that those beliefs like yours did not prevent me seeing that.
Edit: Gay people have always existed, the world has never been "a simpler place", there was simply more control over who got to publish media run by homophobia, racism, and. other bigotry. "Tradition" would be going back to ancient Egypt when gay marriages were common, or the Neolithic, when no one cared about gender or sexuality. "Traditional Christian values" are no more natural than accepting gay relationships
@@joltyflare Keep in mind, the places where heracy laws exist (where Christianity and Atheism are punished), there are also laws against gay people. And those with religious liberty have the same laws against gay people. You and LGBTQ+ people. Are. Not. The. Same. You will never be the same, stop trying to be the same and finding every crumb to be oppressed. The ghost writers don’t even want such oppression, “tRaDiTioNaL vaLuEs”, they’re forced to by HarperCollins for money, because Warriors is a cash cow.
Also also, there are not Christian morals. This is murder cats. If it was Christian they would not be cats, or at least believe in god and punish nonbelievers for just not believing. But they don’t.
@@inkynewt My beliefs don't prevent anything but ok lol
@@thelanktheist2626 I think in the og series (before the big change in more recent years) did make it clear that nonbelievers couldn't connect with StarClan on any level, likely after death. Although non-followers still had to atone in some recent books. Although the code itself is basically the commandments of the series. I actually mainly only follow the amendments because I believe a lot of the Bible is lost in translation, so I myself am not "traditional"
I dunno why you had to be mean about it. Why? Like, what reason was there to be a douche to me? We're in the same boat. We ARE the same. Why are you being mean when, yes, I'm a Christian and can verify this AND am lgbtq+. Wtf
As someone who lives in Florida and my niece is still in Elementry School...
I know all to well how horrible the shutting down any book with ideas like LGBTQIA....They legit BANNED teachers from having books (of any kind) within their classrooms.
It...sickens me.
Also a note, one of the writers that makes up the name Erin Hunter got fired not that long ago for transphobic tweets. She's been spewing them for a while but when a lot of fans brought it to the company's attention, they decided to fire her, but mostly for her doing it on her business account that's directly tied to Warriors.
Not just transphobia, she doxxed trans children
oh yeah, i remember that!! huge w for warrior cats fans
jesus christ i never heard about this and just wow
What did she say in those tweets?
@@yeayeayeah933 i dont remember everything so im trying to look up what i found. seems like a tweet saying "i stand with jk rowling." started it.
then people got mad because jk rowling is a hot button topic online so there was some back and forth with said angry people who consider jk rowling, and thus now gillian, a transphobe. apparently some people sent her death threats too? either way i guess the publishers saw the controversy and then she got fired in like 2 days. im guessing its a PR type deal.
then she wrote some articles online about it. apparently her issue that caused her to agree with rowling is stuff like letting transgender people who did not have surgery or hormones into like womens prisons and stuff like that, and people pushing stuff like "people who menstrate" instead of women, which is one thing. but some of the other stuff she said came off as a bit cringe to me like going on about "twitterati" and "the woke mob" and all that junk.
Great video. I have such mixed feelings on Tallstar's Revenge precisely for the reasons you talk about. It's such a well written story about grief and revenge, and shows such a deep relationship between Tallstar and Jake, but the undertone of homophobia in passively dismissing the romantic elements while saying the author believes they're a couple is... not great.
I'm not all that sympathetic to major publishing/media groups with hit series that try and tiptoe around gay content and use China/Russia/etc as excuses. Many of these companies publish LGBT content (Harper Collins included!), but refuse to allow it in their better-selling series that they have strong control over because they're prioritizing maximum profits. Warriors would still be a profitable series if it did not sell in Russia, it just wouldn't be AS profitable as it could be. Warriors is a huge cash cow for HC, and they continue to milk it for all it's worth, sacrificing quality and inclusivity in the process.
If you're an ally, don't just accept the excuse of "Russia would ban the books :(" or repeat it to other fans who are frustrated by the lack of inclusion! Especially not if you're someone who is willing to critique the series until it comes to people talking about LGBT cats.
Capitalism be darned, we just want some explicitly LGBTQ+ cats!!
hey! sorry, but you have the wrong lesbian flag in your profile picture, that flag is called the lipstick lesbian flag and has a transphobic background. the sunset lesbian flag is perfect!
This is an amazing video! This is extremely important and is a needed video! Thanks for the info!
What a great video, and it delved into much more than most have. Keep up the great work!
Thanks bestie
Absolutely fantastic video! A concise breakdown of an incredibly important subject. As a lesbian, it's very near and dear to my heart, but even just as a fan who's been with this series since the very beginning -- it's been a wild experience seeing the evolution of the fandom's approach to queerness as well as the authors.' We've come a long way since chalking up queer representation to "slash for slash's sake" in the mid-to-late 2000s.
You're 10000000% right in calling out the publishers being willfully complicit. People who ascribe exclusive blame to China + Russia for the books not including canonical gay characters/relationships are simplifying an extremely complex issue. Over the past few years, we've seen enormous pushback to queer rights and representation within so-called 'progressive' countries such as the United States and United Kingdom. To say that we're only held back by "foreign homophobic countries" is being either woefully uninformed or willfully delusional. The executives who choose profit over representation are the problem -- and they're looking at the American market just as much as they are internationally, if not more so. It's imperative to understand that, and I'm very happy to see such a well-made piece on the topic.
Also, sidenote: love your editing style! I'm always a fan of seeing extra legwork being put in to moving sprites/visuals around and it's always fun seeing how you edit your videos together. :)
Thank you so much Riddle! I 100% agree with you. It's time that we stop pointing the blame and look to the real problems.
Aw, I appreciate it! I've been trying to level up my editing game more in these past couple of weeks: especially with these style of videos. Thank you for noticing! ❤️
Omg Answered Riddle,,,,I am such a fan (also yes 10000% this)
The Erins actually have written an openly gay couple in their series "Bravelands" with the characters Fearless and Keen, so we know they CAN write them. So whats holding them back from writing those relationships in Warriors?
it may be that it's not a big deal if Bravelands earns less money than Warriors, since WC makes up a huge part of their profit.
solid video, i think the saddest part is the fact that this issue stems out much further than just the warriors series, hopefully more attention gets brought to this issue within the series along with lgbtqia+ censorship as a whole
Thanks! It honestly kind of surprised me when I first learned about how deep this actually went. Hopefully one of these days we can finally move away from that stigma.
This is a great video! Also, love your voice, it’s perfect for settings like this!
I’m very late to this video, but this reminds me of when I was in high school, the whole book banning pandemic hit… while I was reading a book specifically about homosexuality, and overcoming inner homophobia. It got banned before I could finish it 😢
Though I found it really upsetting, the state I live in is very catholic, so… I can’t say I didn’t see it coming :p
I've literally never understood why people hate other people just because of the way they look, who they like and what they identify as. It's stupid as hell and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
Thank you for making this video and exposing this topic. It means a lot.
My pleasure ❤️
Great video Hawkkz, and happy to have contributed some art to it. It's so disappointing to see gay characters get dangled over our heads, often despite the authors intending it to be queer. Tallstar and Jake are a good example, as discussed, as well as Ravenpaw and Barley. Raven and Barley get more screen time for their relationship, and they talk so sweetly and lovingly about and to each other. But despite being confirmed mates, the books refrain from using the word. I wonder why...
Found you through your video on Moth Flight's Vision, and I've enjoyed each one since. I'm definitely subscribing! Keep up the great work!
Thank you! And thank you so much for your art too 😊
Hopefully one of these days we’ll be able to look back at stuff like this and have everyone finally realize just how bad it can be. But for now, we just have to keep on fighting 🤝
I'm pretty sure the Erins themselves (like Kate), if she (or more of erins) could. She would make same sex crushes and couples, or trans cats, etc, more open. I'm sure, she tried her best to show the fans, ''That hey, these cats are a bit more than just fans then book indicates in they just friends lines.' I feel like, if the world was a much better place to everyone. We could have what we want and what the writer wants, but that's life. It's sadly that the person who takes times out of their day, their life can't choose and choose whats in their book.
Wait anyone remember this line from the first series? "You remind me of someone i used to know" said from tallstar to fireheart me now that i understand that he was refering to firehearts father jake lol
*Ravenpaw and Barley sleep together*
*Jake and Talltail/star also sleep together*
*Leafpool and Mothwing having feelings for each other at some point*
*Purdy having not attraction to any she-cat but to toms*
Erins: They were really good friends
Honestly it was only Harper collins
Honestly it was only Harper collins
the idea of purdy being this gay grandpa is actually so great i love it
@@lycanfangs Me too!!
Hello! I am watching a video from your channel for the first time, and i already see you have a great channel. I love your character design! the colors look so well with eachother! I think I will watch your videos more. Sorry for grammar if it's bad, polish person here.
Thank you so much! I’m glad you like it ❤️
This video was interesting in terms of how it revealed the author’s mentality towards same-sex relationships. Knowing this, it’s interesting how some gay relationships (like Tallstar x Jake and Ravenpaw x Barley) are purposely left open ended as if to say that the author had an idea for a homosexual relationship, but left it open due to censorship
Omg thanks for covering this! Throughout the fandom from what I saw there’s not much homophobia maybe I’m not digging deep enough which is good since I don’t like seeing homophobic bs on my screen. One of Warriors biggest content creators is Trans and uses she/her pronouns but she announced it on twitter so it’s understandable that people don’t know that and say he in the comments. Usually someone corrects them and they apologize but I know that some of them are just being douchebags and that’s not cool! People should try to be more accepting instead of harassing people and bullying them because they are lgbtq+! Sorry for the rant but the homophobia has got to stop!
No problem! I love Akira and her videos ❤️ I just wish some people would learn to do their proper research. Every step forward is 3 steps back, you know?
I'll always support her no matter who she is ❤️
@@Hawkkz she’s awesome and will always be one of my favs!
@@Hawkkz OMG YOU WATCH AKIRA! She is literally one of mah fave warrior cat youtubers! It really isn't fair how even bi and pansexual and aromantic people get bullied (I'm not saying that gender/sexuality bullying is less fair than this). Why should anyone get bullied because of the way they consider themself or because they choose which gender to marry or not want to marry anyone at all. I believe I'm aromantic so imma say this: WHAT? ARE WE BAD PEOPLE FOR NOT WANTING TO MARRY ANYONE!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH- *Passes out because of major tension headache*
It's also not a choice lol
Akira is great. I love her theory videos. It's such a shame that she would get hate like that
Even though the sales might take a hit from the countries that ban lgbtq books, as well as from any homophobic readers out there, I feel like if anything putting more representation in the series would give the series a boost. Like, I can't be the only one who's noticed how many warriors fans have turned out to be in the community somehow. Imagine warriors suddenly getting canon gay and trans cats. I know plenty of people who would pick up the series again for something like that. The publishers have no idea what they could unleash upon the world if only they weren't cowards.
You got some weird fetishes my friend. :)
It’s sad how the authors of warrior cats can’t make it how they want because of harbor collins
I thought ravenpaw and barley was explicitly canon tbh
[Spoilers for Bravelands]
If you read the first arc of Bravelands - which is also by Erin Hunter - then there are two male lions in the series; Fearless and Keen. They become very, very close with neither of them ever taking an interest in lionesses - they'll constantly nuzzle or lick each other, lay/sleep beside each other, etc. all very super gay-coded to the point where you literally could not pass them off as just two extremely close platonic friends. But, what made me super happy is in the second arc, the three heroes of the first arc all get a brief little mention with their love interests. And it's a sentence that leaves no room for argument about Fearless and Keen being a couple. It quite literally states "the tragic romances of Thorn and Berry, Fearless and Keen, and Sky and Rock" - putting the two male lions in the middle of that one sentence basically confirmed they are indeed a canon couple. Sure, in the first arc there was no explicit/direct "I love you/you're my mate" or anything, but that one little sentence from the second arc made me just so ridiculously happy and I kind of have hope that more things like that can happen until they reach a point where they can just outright say it.
I've just read that sentence too and was really surprised! I'm guessing it has to do with Bravelands not releasing in Russia.
@@kazatraw707 Could be, could be. It's a nice step forward though!
I've always wondered how the writers felt about the ships going around in the fandom. Excuse me since I haven't been in it in years.
I've never really been all that familiar with any of the ships in Warriors but I feel like it isn't all their fault: publisher and author of the series. I wonder how different it would have been if they were able to make sales without the books being challenged or foreign sales. Sometimes, I kinda wish that they would make stories regarding these characters as a couple without worrying about sales, like they did with Firestar and Graystripe.
One of the writers of Warrior Cats (Tui T. Sutherland) has a book series called Wings of Fire. The book series has a gay(lesbian) couple in it. Arch 3, book 13. So at least we know Tui isn’t homophobic
They should write an arc for all the people wanting LGBTG ships in warriors. Everyone would be happy, the gays, the homophobic counties wouldn't have to read it because it wouldn't be relevant to the main plot. It could be a look into the head of cats like hollyleaf, lesbianstar I mean leopardstar, rosetail, ravenpaw, tallstar, greystripe and all the other gay cats and their thoughts on relationships with "friends" I'd be like all the rosexblue maps where rosetail is daydreaming.
I'm so glad someone is mentioning this!! It's a topic that needs to be brought up
Everything you said is absolutely right.
Glad you talked about this.
I've always heard that Harrper Collins was stoping LGBTQ+ couples from being cannon.
everyday.. equality is slowly being removed..
The Sister's are such free spirits. I'd think they'd open up and accept a Trans Sister. I'd love to read that Super edition.
Anyways time to make more Jake x tallstar art! (Great video btw)
You just earned a new sub
Thank you! ❤️
Np
I love all your video
This feels like the "and historians will call them..." Song
People are so awful sometimes, great video hawkkZ
Thank you! I know. It's horrible.
@@Hawkkz np
*Literally crying and the tears boiling because of how angry I am* I KNOOOOOOOW!
@@AmberDrawsStuff it is so horrible :(
It makes me not want to write… BUT I WILL!! ALL HAIL LGBTQIA+ topics!
This breaks my heart, truly sickening to the core, it's the older generation forcing their outdated believes on the new gen
I love when creators go into this. If anyone wants more I know Quiet Rage has a video and Sunnyfall has one on gender. This was great!!! Thank you so much
Me seeing this video: Oh boy. *big sigh, and grabs popcorn* im in for a ride..
My script for a starless clan is writtrn...so nervous 😓 😬 😫
i want lezbian kitties 😿
I believe Tui. T is one of the writers of warriors, and if you check out her main series, WoF (incredible series) there is quite a bit of lgbtq+ representation! There are bi/gay characters, and even one of the main dragons in arc 3 has a girlfriend :)
I think Tui was on the Survivors Erin hunter team, rather than The Warriors Erin hunter team, but I might be wrong.
But Wings of fire definitely has the representation!
@@leccirecci8954 I’ll check it out, thanks for informing me!!
Exactly, tui didn’t want her romances to be silenced so she just included them and pulled a middle finger up to anyone who disagreed with them
Why can’t the Erin’s just be more like this smfh
It’s clear as day all they care about is money at this point, they just need to be fired and replaced by people who actually give a shit about quality
@@thenyan3095 yea :(
I actually didn’t know about Tallstar! I think this video goes way under the radar, and it needs to be seen
Me reading the challenged and/or banned books: yo they challenged CAPTAIN UNDERPANTS?! why!!
Good video hawkkz, but the part who shocked of is.. kate Carey see them are a couple. I really got surprised in these!! (Hey, you are accepting fanArts from CZcams?)
Thank you! Yes, I am! Please mention @wc_hawkkz in a post on Twitter or send me a DM for fanart ❤️
Maybe I should get back to reading the books
Freedom of creativity all the way!!
Great video hawkkz, im glad youre being brave enough to talk about this! Although I severely disagree with the lack of lgbtq representation in warriors, they need to make money somehow.
To me, this is the opposite of surprising. Homophobia is no joke. And it was even worse back in 2013 when this was published (and around when I read it).
I'd love to see Warriors commit more to LGBT+ representation but I can't see it happening, no matter what the authors want. It would be controversial and jeopardize sales, and I'm sure the publishers would insist upon keeping their profits, given how huge the Warriors franchise is. IDK exactly how much control the authors really have in this situation.
At least Survivors had an aro/ace protagonist though! Even if it was only mentioned in a one-off line.
From now on, my new name for you shall be: Rascal Cattz!
Saying you "can't" include a same-sex couple because in some of the countries the book series is available it's illegal is absolutely ridiculous. Wings of Fire(Umber, Anemone, Sundew, Willow, Jambu, and Pinnapple)?? The Moomin Series(Tofslan and Vifslan)??
Yeah, that is pretty weird... Besides, still we have books with lgbt people here in Russia. Even though they're often advised to be burned by some people.
First video I’m watching loved it 😊
Straight to point and depth, voice fits too 😂
I’m only on Volume 2 Warrior Cats but I love community and as beginner animator I wish to be apart of it to.
P.S I shipped Barley and Ravenpaw and leaf pool with Mothwing.
It’s nice but wish it was canonically confirmed
Thank you so much! Have fun reading the books ❤️
The thing about it, as it feels like they wanted some characters to be LGBTQ+ (Mothwing x Leafpool, Ravenpaw x Barley, and Tallstar x Jake) but didn't want to even merely risk backlash. While admirable with the subtext and implications, it feels somewhat insulting they don't care enough to fight for representation.
@@boxo2219 You forgot multiple periods and commas in your sentence. Using periods is far more basic than spelling "representation". Also, most 2nd graders don't even know what that word means.
I hope you appreciate me correcting your grammar. Iron sharpens iron right?
I might also start that hashtag. Good idea.
@@smalldrop3425 Ok
What a great video man! I feel like we as a fandom tend to ignore this way too much, but then again, it's not like HC listens to us anyways. It just feels so wrong for this book series to only include vague representation when *most* of us are LGBT, which is truly wild imo
CW// Severe homophobia and politics
As someone who lives in a country opposing same sex relationships and LGBTQ in general, I would honestly miss Warrior Cats if they revoked the series from such countries just for the purpose of inclusivity. However, the laws here are so strict that as a lesbian myself, it scares me to death. Something ought to be done about the prevailing homophobia, but speaking up is too huge of a risk and could get someone killed, too. Besides, the authors aren't homophobic, Kate herself ships Tallstar and Jake. So, I honestly don't think this is that big of an issue. Unless any content is meant to explicitly oppose LGBTQ, Not including gay couples at all in books isn't homophobia. Also, I feel it isn't just about profit, catering to a wider audience is important for the books.
Y'all in supportive countries can talk all you want, but please respect my opinion. Warrior Cats is epic and so are my homo homies!! The video was pretty great, too, you did some lovely analysis on the much talked about LGBTQ matters in the books and the fandom.
Of course, but unfortunately that's how the laws are in places like ours. :']
It's true, including gay characters in books is absolutely fine. I don't see otherwise why the Erins can't include a few in the background at least. However, the whole "catering to audiences in homophobic countries" thing is actually a pretty big dilemma if the Erins plan to include any homosexual characters in books. :'']
This stuff is why I read Wings of Fire, where you can see LGBTQ+ characters and no one in the universe minds it.
I was suspicious of the TallJake hype and found myself disappointed when it wasn’t up to my expectations of what a gay couple is like in fiction outside of fan content (I had yet to understand reading gay couples at the time in high school and often gave the benefit of the doubt, needing a LOT of convincing that it was romantic and not just a queerplatonic one). I would have been a lot more satisfied with an in-book confirmation. There’s some comments here that made me go like “whoa… oh fox dung, actually, you’re right, somehow I didn’t think of that” when they mentioned that the “foreign countries ban” didn’t sit right because the same thing was occurring in the States too.
When he said "This is your final warning." at 1:11
Why did that scare me??
Please paws and read the following
Hey you sound like someone’s voice audio from moonkitti!? Am I crazy or right?
Yep! That would be me, haha. I voiced in her most recent video :)
@@Hawkkz oh yeah I remember u from umm her disco I left! U were the one who I accidentally dmed once and told my age doesn’t matter to say at that server. I didnt know u had a yt so it just surprised me to see lmao 😭
@@Aduuumb OH that's you? Out of context that sounds weird af LMAO but yea sorry you felt like you couldn't fit in because of your age and all that. I didn't even know you left yet :(
@@Hawkkz No worries! It isn’t ur fault and sorry for umm commmenting that without context 😭
They should have another team to re-edit the books that have this content for those countries that don’t allow it
I just want the “Mothpool”, “BarleyRaven”, and “TallJake” to be canon :”) (also that squirrelFlight could be able to be a leader and realized how toxic was bramble so she decides that the best for her it’s know herself better and that she have no need for having a relationship, because she’s all that she needs)
Wasn't Squirrelflight toxic? As least not less than her mate in my opinion.
@@Ebonyfire not really,she was just subborn
@@oko5771, if it's called that, I guess he was, only stubborn too. Then it's cleared out, thanks! Their relationships are a mess, lol.
it is good to have representation only that some people insist a lot on their favorite authors to do what they want to see and if the author does not want them they will defame them.
So include is a decission that most came from the author.
If not would end badly
I've heard if this a few times, and out of curiosity I'll ask, do you have some sources/ cases of these instances?
They pulled a Ravenpaw as I call it
I agree with all the statements you made, but I think cancelling warriors or something over this is pretty ridiculous. I can’t think of very many childrens series written early 2000s that have lgbtq+ rep. In fact I can’t think of any. I think they were probably too scared to take the step.
who's cancelling warriors???
the thing is the series is still going today, still no canon lgbt characters and they don't plan to put them in either
Unrelated, but I’d like to remind folks that Kate Cary wrote a firestar x graystripe fanfiction a long while back.
If Kate ships it then it’s canon!
(obvs not canon but if an author ships it then it’s meant to be)
gods this is so tiring
I entirely disagree when it comes to the person or people that wrote and still write Warrior Cats being homophobic [Not saying that you're saying they are]. I don't think that people HAVE to put any specific characters in their books or book series, whether it be transgender characters, gay characters or any other types of characters. Just because they don't doesn't mean they're transphobic or homophobic. I don't necessarily ship Tall`star and Jake but I don't disagree with that ship either. I haven't finished reading Warrior Cats, but it is, and always will be, my favorite series. It is so cool that the writer[s] create such a wide variety of characters [Gray`wing having asthma, etc.], but they shouldn't HAVE to have certain characters in order to support LGBTQ+ or any other communities. I don't think that when the writer[s] referred to Jake and Tall`star in the books as Just Friends was a bad thing, or even slightly upsetting, it was simply how they viewed the characters, and that's okay. If others wish to see Jake and Tall`star as lovers that is completely okay, and if some wish to see them as friends that is also completely okay. I think that everyone needs to be just a little less sensitive, and that's my opinion.
If anyone has a different opinion then so be it, it is what it is, and the writers of Warrior Cats aren't trying to FORCE anybody to see things their way, nor am I. We all have our own opinions, and this is mine.
And just for the record, I myself am part of the LGBTQ+ community. Apparently, that seems to decide whether I can or cannot speak on a certain subject. I will still stand my ground none the less.
I think the issue arises from the fact that the author, Kate Cary, said "Inside my head, they are a couple" but she wrote them vaguely as "good friends" because the publishers would have objected to an inarguably-canon gay couple. It isn't the authors of Warriors that are homophobic. It's the editors and publishing companies that are homophobic, for censoring queer stories in order to avoid controversy and make their books more marketable.
Believe me, I get where you're coming from, because I love stories where the characters are simply good friends. But it's upsetting when queer representation, which is already rare, gets glossed over or written vaguely to make it more "palatable." This is a pattern of censorship that extends far beyond Warriors.
@@iyote That's fair, in all honesty my only issue was and still is that some people claim the Warrior Cats writers ARE homophobic. Other than that, I tend to stay out of all of the arguments that have to do with any of the big stuff going on in the world right now. Although, another thing is I don't necessarily think that making their books more marketable unless they're telling people to do some horrible things [Which wouldn't even stand in the market anyways], or something along the lines of that is necessarily a bad thing. I don't blame them, or anyone matter of fact for wanting their books or products to sell to other places, as that's what people who sell their products do [Not to say people don't also sell their products to make others happy]. I think the issue lies with the other countries who don't accept the whole queer idea, though I suppose you could just keep bringing it back and back, and I'm sure some people have.
I do agree with you that there is an issue with lgbtq+ subjects being censored in certain situations, but I just don't think Warrior Cats is an issue. Plus, Kate Cary even stated that you can believe whatever you would like to believe. Even then like you said, she wrote them "vaguely" as good friends [I too read Tall`stars revenge and I too noticed that she never made it clear whether they were lovers or friends], which makes it even better in my opinion because it opens up people's minds so they truly can believe what they want to believe. I think that's one of the greatest things about stories, leaving a little bit of a blank here and there [not too much mind you] so people can sort of put their own imagination to work as to what may have gone down or how things are.
I don't think I'll be discussing this any further though because like I said I don't really like getting too deep into these concepts, even though this one kind of pinched me a bit, but we all have our own opinions, and I in turn respect yours, and I'm also glad that you responded as kindly as you did, so thank you for that.
Thank you so much for making this. It sucks that people still think we should focus on appealing to some people who won't accept the truth about LGBTQ+ people that they exist and aren't going away. I guessed this was happening in Warrior Cats and I didn't want to admit it to myself to keep a sliver of hope going. But now with what you talked about it sucks to think that possibly we may never see representation in a time when kids these days need to learn more and more about minorities. I have really only started Warrior Cats I'm currently beginning with Power of Three after reading The First Prophecy and The New Prophecy there have been so many missed opportunities for LGBTQ+ people because of HarperCollins having the final say with the books.
they invented 12 gauge for a reason
I’d like to say a few things. I am a Author undergoing publishing. It is an absolute nightmare to publish LGBTQ content. My book contains LGBTQ themes. If you are looking to publish a series that includes these themes, you have to be extremely upfront about it in the beginning . And I doubt when warriors was first in creation Tallstar x Jake and other LGBTQIA themes weren’t on the top list of their priorities when going to publish. If Warriors wasn’t as big as it is, I could guarantee you Tallstar X Jake would be canon.
I'm sorry to hear that. It's shocking that these problems run as deep as they do: it continues to upset and appall me the further down the rabbit hole I go. Thank you for the insight ❤️
Lgbtq themes shouldnt be in Warriors. Period.
How’s it any different than a straight romance if the Spottedleafs heart thing can be in these books than so can lbgtq
I have a gai pairing between a tom cat and male dog, the dog is bisexual, as a teen I didn't know I was coding the cat as homosexual until someone pointed it out, .I'm disabled and hate that this community has been squashed in books for teens as it's very similar to how the disabled community is in Warriors. I hope Harper Collins changes their minds!
honestly if they were worried abt losing sales in non-lgbtqia+ contrys they could change it a bit so it wouldnt be the same but still similar. in the accepting (better) countrys they could have same sex couples but in the stupid countrys they could have them as freinds. or they could stop caring abt sales and have same sex couples in all the books.
Please consider the fans from the countries the books might get banned in, not everyone knows how to scroll through the internet for hours looking for illegal ways to read the books online because it got banned. Plus, it’s really unfair to just tell them to not worry about sales so some people obsessed with gay people can be satisfied, it’s business, they’re the ones that’ll lose money, nothing happens to you. Please look and consider things properly before you act
@@woltyandfriends382 not to be rude,, but first point, it doesnt take hours to find a pdf folder of all the warrior cats books,, in fact just go to ephemeralmoth or ryeven's channels and they have all the books right there, bing bang boom,, hell, i was even able to find a bunch on my school chromebook,, my point is, its _incredibly_ easy to find the books,, also btw a little note, the people asking for rep arent "obsessed with gay people," they are gay people??? 😭😭😭 almost everyone in the community is part of the lqbtq+ community,, hell im aroace??
@@mooneatsworms ik ik, but it doesn't hurt to not have any gay cats in the books, I would love to have gay cats in the books too, but it just makes things more complicated?? like its not homophobic to make a book without gay people, they want to profit it's not fair to take away some of their income source for the sake of getting gay couples, it's literally fine the way it is, zero homophobia going on. I just think people should stop freaking out whenever there is or isn't any gay couples like we're literally trying to normalise it. Plus preferences, some people just enjoy reading from an actual book more than staring at a phone screen, and their opinion matters honestly
@@woltyandfriends382 thank you for explaining your points in further detail! i completely agree that it would make things a lot more difficult for fans in homophobic countries, which really sucks, it kind of puts into perspective just how big a lot of problems are,, although i would say the refusal and blatant censorship of gay couples in warrior cats would count as discrimination, i.e. vicky getting smited by hc for writing that one firegray fic, even when it wasnt even known about by most hardcore fans,,, although for the income source id have to disagree, harper collins is a very wealthy company, publishing lots of insanely popular books, and films?? say for example where the crawdads sing, which is actually in theaters???????? and id like to mention that the frustration doesnt stem from no gay people really being represented in shows or books, although i get thatd be super frustrating,, but rather from the fact that the only reason theyre not allowing gay rep is because of money and virtually nothing else
@@mooneatsworms Ah, yeah, I can agree with that! I'm from a strictly religious and homophobic country myself and the possibility of the books getting banned just worries me ig
I love your voice
Aw, thank you! Comments like these mean a lot to me ☺️
I noticed that the more books that are banned, the more people want to read as to why they are banned. Not saying banning is okay but love how people figure why books are banned. I still think banning LGBTQ+ books is dumb since, why not ban straight couples books? It's the same thing after all, love.
Also hate that the companies are so afraid of losing profit. Kind of the reason I want to, if I ever publish, to be self so I'd have little restriction. It won't be exactly swimming in money but would love to publish without worry.
I don’t like your profile pic isn’t it a symbol of discrimination and evil it scared me
@@Kaminoboi No it is not. It is a pentacle which is protection in my spirituality of being a witch (and no that's not evil either), it also represents the elements. The color is for me being transgender. Nothing evil about it.
In my country, it's actually illegal to be homophobic (or was it transphobic? I can't remember)
That’s good
Lovely video, thank you for spreading awareness!! As someone a part of the lgbtqia+ community it truly angers me to see this type of censorship with Warriors as well as other books.
or we can choose to ignore it and live happily like I do because I don't have time for drama
I used Ctrl F on the challenged books sight, and searched LGBTQIA+, and 18 different results popped up. I mean, bruh.
The worst part about the TallJake ship is that they gave Jake, not one, but two litters of kits with two very straight cats. He's prolly Bi or Pan but in the context of censorship it doesn't look good. Especially since he and Tall were really close.
👍
Remember me when ur famous
Aw, thank you! Maybe one day :)
I've said this in many analysis videos and I'll say it again. Homophobia is and never will be okay. It's 2022, lgbtq+ is fact and proven. Man up Erins. I don't endorse harassing the authors but I do not think this is ok just because you want wide appeal... Keep up the great content btw, I love your videos ❤️ Biromantic woman here!!