Mini-Splits Doing What They Do Best 🤬
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- čas přidán 28. 07. 2024
- It's no secret that I don't like mini splits, probably because when they act up they can be a real pain to diagnose. There's no denying they have their place and this is one of those videos. Two different units at two different locations.
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#hvacrsurvival #hvaclife #hvacservice #hvacr #refrigeration #troubleshooting
#hvacrsurvival #hvaclife #minisplit
0:00 Intro
1:00 Looking over the Mitsubishi mini-split
2:00 Looking for clues
4:00 Diagnosing a mini-split
6:00 Hidden problems under your nose - Zábava
- Purchase your tools at www.trutechtools.com/?AffId=42 and use the offer code SURVIVAL to save 8% on your total purchase (exclusions apply) -
Split systems are widely used in Australia and evaporative ducted, ducted refrigeration is rare domestically mostly used in commercial buildings, hospitals etc.
Splits are efficient, precise temp control.
I started my career working with these Mitsubishi units.
For server room applications, get the indoor unit a size up from the outdoor unit.
Keeping condensing pressure up is very important as you noticed.
They run without superheat. The accumulator is there for a reason as you stated.
With age, suction pressure drops without any real reason and they freeze up. Again, get the bigger size indoor unit to mitigate that.
Once inverters became prevalent these problems disappeared.
Thanks for sharing your experience👍👍. It's always great to have others contribute to the video✌️
That's a perfectly decent computer room. In fact, it's fantastic. Most customers of mine end up using the server room as a catch-all for all of their flammable office supplies, and a couple have used them for janitorial supplies as well. Personally, I think that letting contracted janitors have full access to your servers and network equipment is a bad idea.
This maintenance guy takes real good care of this school.
All flammables suppey air to much
I used to service a company that had their severs in the men’s room! They were behind a louver door, but still!
@@DEW409 - I've seen network switches over the toilet before (small office, and it was a good place for a cabinet/shelf), but I don't think I've ever seen computer equipment in the men's room.
I thought I was the only guy that stepped on his kneepad. Damn if I don't hate seeing my own footprints on it. My only experience with a minisplit is the Mr. Cool I installed in my garage. I really like it I installed it correctly. I can see a future where these are more popular than regular split duct systems.
They have super high efficiency ratings but installation errors are the number one killer. They're too high tech for the average knuckle dragger😉
The biggest issue, to me, with trying to use them for your main system is that you don't get whole house circulation. If you need boosted cooling in one room, then they're perfect. If you're cooling several rooms, then you're better off having some sort of circulator. In fact, our whole house standard system spent several days in circulate only mode. (at one point, it started to smell funny.. Not sure why)
I hope that homeowner appreciates the level of tech you are. Most people wouldn't go through the trouble of putting the sticker in the unit documenting everything.
Thank you!
Unfortunately I'm most people, excellent informative video as always don't you try the sealants if it's such a small leak ?
@stevenpollock6342 I’ve tried a few different ones and I’ve never had them work. Some people I know have said that it worked for them, but I kind of doubt it.
We just put in 2 mini-splits in a small server room, for redundancy.
Nothing wrong with mini-splits as long as you install them right. Here you have to be licensed to do anything around machines that has refrigerants in them
That's the way it's supposed to be everywhere I thought but people have there ways of getting them.
Rick, good call on tieing off your ladder. I was repairing a roof for my landlord, and had a gust of wind blow my ladder down. I was glad that there were other people around that day.
I hate that👍👍
@@HVACRSurvival me too. My employer drills these things into us, so that works there, but a couple of our guys had similar accidents, so I guess safety only matters at work to them.
Thanks for sharing the video, Rick !
Interesting on that Pioneer. I have units that are that exact same style, so interesting seeing how they are put together and diagnosing them. They seem to be a popular unit around here under many different brands, but not much info about them.
i dont understand why people call these things "mini-splits", i call them what they are: "job-security".
Not kidding, I like high tech but these sometimes creat vacuum😎🤬
Because they're miniature split systems?
If I'm recalling correctly, every single brand and unit will fail at some point and all need service. I'd call HVAC "job security" regardless.
I check superheat on mini splits all the time. Screw what tech support says. They typically run 0-5 degrees of superheat, at least on systems with EEVs. I wouldn’t use it as an end all, be all diagnostics method but it helps generate a complete picture
I agree, it does seem that's what I've seen as well. I feel it should be smart enough to regulate the refrigerant if it's flooding back to much😁
@@HVACRSurvival they run a completely flooded evaporator in ideal situations, especially at full load. If insulated properly, the suction superheat should be very close to zero. I start getting concerned when I see a suction saturation below freezing and superheat much higher than 5-10. Superheat really depends on lineset length though. At the end of the day, half of mini split calls wind up with a call to tech support anyway. They run on that FM technology. 🤣
Edit: this only pertains to mini splits with EEVs in the condenser. Whatever that thing you were working on is doesn’t count 🤣
Superheat isn't as useful nowadays since the drive can adjust the metering and the fans on the fly to keep it near 1 or 0 plus you have an accumulator. Though it might be okay on that Mitsubishi. Idk.
Wish they put high and low side ports on them anyways, I don't like the trend of single ports.
I just installed one of the Pioneer units. I used the blue nylog flair and thread sealant, but it doesn't harden like what I saw in your video. I had shortened the line from 16 feet to 11 feet and the heat wouldn't work very well below freezing. So I had to pull a little bit of r410a. After that the unit started heating like it was supposed to. What would happen before adjusting the r410a was that the pressure would climb to about 590psi before settling down to about 550psi at 40 degrees, and then the low side would sit at 160 psi at 40 degrees. After pulling some of the refrigerant and getting the low side to settle down to 120 psi at 47 degrees F and 500 psi at 47 degrees I was able to get the unit to make heat. Now I went from 100 degree air at the indoor unit at 20 degrees F outside to 127 degree air medium high fan speed at 8 degrees F. To work on these units it takes an understanding of control systems and refrigeration. The 3 phase motor controllers don't just look at the 4-5 temperature sensors on the units, but they also look at motor load. So for example if the load on the motor is low and the heat isn't within spec on the output of the compressor the unit can detect and the low side is colder than desired then the unit can detect low refrigerant. Anyway that is why the manufactures just say to weigh in the refrigerant.
That's a lot of information, thank you for sharing 👍👍
Mitsubishi units come with rated charge for length of pipe, never had to remove there is no min length, only add if longer, and they spec it all in the books that come with em.
Nylog doesn't harden, you should not be putting thread sealant on the flare connections, it's FLARE, Nylog works great
@@cengeb That's what I wrote too.
Thank you for all your hard work and insight
Thanks for watching!
Put a wind baffle on it, it will help with the colder temps as well. Keep the pressures up
That might be the next step if I have anymore problems with it👍👍
On board labelmaker for the win!
T'would be a pleasure to come behind ya sir!
Um.....I do mean as the mechanic who has to open that machine next!
I got what your saying🤣👍👍. Thanks for the kind words🤜🤛
Good job!
I like mini splits... but gotta be inverter driven so it can ramp up and down and it needs to obviously be EEV. Cap tube? Hell no. Gotta be able to control metering.
Good job Rick.
Thanks John👍👍
Nice Rick👍,buddy of mine put one on his pool house LG. ,loves it super quite
If there installed correctly they normally work good. It's when idiots touch them that it all goes to hell.
@@HVACRSurvival this be true
Nice. Glad I don't have to work on those 😅 ... And I just had my ladder fall, I will always tie it down from now on 😂
I've been trapped on a roof before back when all we had was two way radios and no cell phone. 😄🤙
The world out there uses minisplits everywhere, as usual the U.S. follows....central air and forced air heat is so inefficient in the U.s., with leaky poorly connected ducts, not insulated,noisy fans,not sealed inside hot or cold walls, my Mitsubishis are SILENT inside and out, 10 degrees outside, house is as warm as ya want, same for cooling when it's as hot as it gets...super efficient, SILENT, reliable...
Great video a always !
Thanks for checking it out!
Nice work Rick... I like to use those Mars 90294 relays for that kind of stuff
I'll have to look those up. I don't have the numbers memorized.
I just looked the number up, yeah I have those, I've had a lot of problems with them. And that's using them for controlling voltage. I like the Honeywell R4222d1021 relay better but it's rated for less amperage than the one you listed.
That pioneer sounds like a rack in a grocery store
No kidding 👍👍, they might be ok units but did you notice the logo kind of reminds me of the Pepsi logo. ?🤔
Great video!
I share your opinion about the Midea suff... Don't even get me started on their proprietary everything inverter systems. Spec sheet for the compressor? Nah, it's confidential. Blink codes or manual for the inverter board? That too.
They're 'trash and get a new one' type units.
Preach it brother🫶😁👍👍
lol that Mitsubishi cdu looks exactly the same as mine from 2002 (even the indoor remote lol) but no low ambient control (coz it's so hot here) and R22. that thing died 4 years ago and we replaced with a new Mitsubishi R32.
R32? What country your in?
@@HVACRSurvival South East Asia, Thailand
That makes sense now. R-32 isn't used around here. 👍
@@HVACRSurvival wow, even in Brazil we have R32, I have in my house
I finally bit the bullet and went ahead and got the Testo digital probes I'm an old-timer and have been doing it with an old compound gauges for 20 plus years every time I went to a unit with my hoses I would pre-charge my hoses therefore if it was a sensitive charge you don't add or remove any without knowing
👍👍. What do you consider an old timer?
That cloth stuff comes with all Mitsubishi units, to wrap exactly as this one is...you need to get up on mini splits, it's growing more and more in use
I'm into so many different sectors of the field that it's hard to stay current. I'm service only and don't install so anything that comes out new isn't seen until it breaks. (I've been trying to go ALL commercial after doing residential for a good majority of my career.) I've been up Mitsubishi City Multi and M&P class in Kentucky and it was the BIGGEST WASTE OF TIME OF ANY SCHOOL I'VE EVER BEEN TO. Mini splits have their place and they're neat but I'm not interested in being specialized in them.
@@HVACRSurvival The stuff is rapidly changing, and getting more complicated with electronic controls and stuff striving for more and more efficiency
The DC inverter systems continuously monitors everything we check with our tools. Why has no one written the GUI code that could be viewed via Bluetooth and/or WiFi? You could instantly see sub cooling/ super heat, Hi and Low pressure, current and voltage on compressor and fans etc.
Hard to say, probably because they have no faith in most service people.
Been thinking of doing a mini split for my garage
It would be great for a garage👍👍
I put a 1.5 ton into a single car garage in So.Fl. It can keep the garage cool on a hot day with the garage door open believe it or not. I think it's amazing for a garage. The Mr. Cool DIY kit is the way to go if you do it yourself. The flairs are already made and lines are charged. It also comes with all the bells and whistles wifi, remote etc etc. I watched many install videos on YT. Myself and another guy took about half a day to install it with lineset covers inside and outside. I ran my lineset down the inside wall then out instead of running it out and down the outside wall. I wanted the landscaping to hide the lineset so I came out low and ran it horizontal to the condenser and put that on a hurricane approved wall bracket. Rectorseal makes that.
Good video 👍 Rick
Thanks Jeff! Have a good weekend!
You know your stuff.
What about the ‘follow me’ mode? Doesnt that put the temperature sensor to the remote? On Bryant/Midea units.
Not that I remember.
I always get sent to mini split calls. Not my favorite thing to work on, but its not the worst either. Flares, drains, boards.....biggest 3 problems I've encountered with them. Ive replaced the IPM boards, compressors ( which i hate doing) fans, main PCB boards, coils and even ann EEV before. I'd pass on them given the chance to.
I feel the same why about them. I don't like having to read about the unit to fix it.
I think if the compressor goes out I rather just replace the unit, esp if it burned out. All I hear is when you replace the compressor it just happens again.
Second one, if they've had people servicing it putting gauges on for no reason, that can lose charge over a few visits.
True, I'm not sure anyone had done a service on it since it had been started and who's to say it was started properly to begin with. Hard telling.
Is it possible to liquid charge that unit if it was empty from the high side ? Or does it need to go in the suction line ?
Show me where the liquid tap is. Then sure but I don't think there is one.
Gota do more minisplit vids
Lol. I'm not that great at them, it always seems to be the same things over n over. That's what helps make them easier. 😁
What temperature differential do you expect from a minisplit in heat mode. Let's assume outside temperature of 5 deg Celsius.
41* F usually I'll get around 26-32* F rise.
@@HVACRSurvival Thanks. Appreciated.
Daiken, bigger than others, Mitsubishi is king of mini splits though
Mini splits work great if installed properly. That Mitsubishi must be 15 years old so what do you expect? The newer models are even better.
Mitsubishi mini splits are fantastic, I use 5 at my house, and save at least $700 a year in oil alone, plus what is saved in energy for cooling in summer. the world uses them for decades, the U.S. is always far behind...
@@Bryan-Hensley SEER ratings on Goodman? Hmmm, not close to Mistubishi
@@Bryan-Hensley Mitsubishi is not Chinese, mine are made in Thailand or Mexico, you do know the entire world uses Mitsubishi mini splits, in extreme locations, hot and cold, Trane teamed up with Mitsubishi, probably to survive a GLOBAL market, where Mitsubishi is king in HVAC. You only get 5 years, you must install them wrong, no such thing here, what are you doing WRONG? Heatpumps have improved so much even within Mitsubishi Hi2 better than something just 5 years ago...stay current
@@Bryan-Hensley Are you that uninformed, Mitsubishi is Japanese, ever hear of Mitsubishi? Oy vey....figure out why TRANE partnered with Mitsubishi to SURVIVE a global market place...my entire house is cooled and heated to where I need it all year...5 mini splits save me well over $700 a year , and my electric bill barely moved up, by not using the oil fired forced air furnace, which includes oil cost now absurd, and 2 large motors for burner and air circulation and no more central air, all mini splits, has been for years....no more use of leaky poorly assembled in wall ducts, contractor grade junk, minisplits are SILENT, SEER like 30..Modern heatpumps make 100% heat at below 0 degrees, rated to run 60% heat capacity at -15 DEGREES F. What are you talking about?
@@Bryan-Hensley Resistivity heating is the dumbest thing to use, it's super inefficient, what are you talking about, if you have so many failures with Mitsubishi, you are doing it wrong
You mentioned not hearing of Pioneer brand. Here in South Florida they are common among mini-splits and relatively inexpensive. Owned by a company, Parker Davis HVAC International, based in Miami, which is perhaps the reason they're more popular in Florida.
In the case of the Mitsubishi in the school/server room -- you mentioned a couple times that it's a generic unit when you clarified that it's on a simple relay, not variable-speed. Can you clarify -- it's still an inverter-based compressor, only limited to an on/off state without variable frequency?
Sidenote: I'm not an HVAC tech. I have an electronics background and -- unfortunately -- get forced to maintain some of my mini-splits because *I cannot find someone like you, who is willing to do work on them.* I believe this is the greatest issue with mini-splits -- finding a HVAC tech willing to work on them.
Correct even though it's inverter which saves you some money it still doesn't give you the variable capacity to swing up and down on hot and cold days, it's fixed at one speed. Variable capacity is how they get the efficiency to the extreme and are able to make it work in extremely cold temperatures. It slows down and speeds up the compressor and the fans to match the capacity and environment that it's working in.
Mini split=Ice up
02:36 Based ON. You can't base something off of something else.
I was referencing variable capacity units with a inverter drive, I had not opened this system to realize it was just a generic air conditioner with no intelligence whatsoever. My reference in this scenario would not apply to this type of unit. But what you're saying is "you can't base something off of something else?" How do you think things are diagnosed?, that's like saying people with a cough and sniffles don't have a cold? You're coming across as stating symptoms do not lead you in the direction for a diagnosis. That makes no sense
So sorry... apologies for the confusion. I was just referencing the speech itself- not the diagnostic technical aspect of the vid. It's a great vid in that regard. I merely meant that your expression (based off of) isn't proper syntax. Actually I've heard it used in a couple of other places too and don't know why it's now part of our vernacular. It's inaccurate.
Nice job Rick! Those relays are crap, ive replaced a few myself.
It's all true😀. What he said🤣
Evry thing need my sefled good not playimg jobes saxes full
I see no difference in midea and Mitsubishi they look alike in build
No board?
Well that's kind of a brief statement so I'm assuming you're asking is there a control board? I can only assume that's what you're getting at?.
@@HVACRSurvival reply yeah I am guessing this is an older mini split or maybe I just missed it.
It’s fishi
👍👍👍
👍
Mini split=leak
All these responses and no one has said that is a wrong application. Mr slim is a residential application. For a server room situations it should be P-series. Do it right and there are zero issues.
Good job getting that ol' boy up and running. Probably only has a few years left so keep milking it for what it's got.
It's a public school building so you know it's the cheapest bidder getting getting the bid.
@@HVACRSurvival so true. Surprised its not Gree on the wall. Lol.
Show 👍🏻
🇧🇷
Thank you!
Have y’all ever noticed how the next guy that works on a “Thing” never compliments the Technician before him and he’s ALWAYS SO MUCH BETTER ..not saying anything about this guy , but listening just made me think about how through my past all the technicians using their 20/20 hindsight Vision can ALWAYS SPOT THE OBVIOUS AND WOULD HAVE NEVER MADE “ THE MISTAKE “ that the tech before them made.. I get it when you see BLATANT SHIT WORK but the other talk is just BULLSHIT.. WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES!!!
No one is listening but me, but let me address what you said. I never said I don't make mistakes and it even says that in my description of who I am. Also unless you have watched all 230 plus videos then you can't say I don't give credit where credit is due. But to excuse the lazy ass workmanship I see from so many installers is rediculas, if that upsets you then you haven't had to deal with the preventable calls that I have but defending these kind of preventable failures is bizarre and baffling.
216 Thumbs uP
Somebody destroyed it, all modern mini splits are variable speed inverter, heating and cooling perfection...people screwed it up, latest ones are better still 30 SEER, able to heat to almost 100% at like -15 degrees...SILENT inside and outside
Those are called hyper heat units. This is a basic AC unit. Schools are ran by school boards with no experience in HVAC. All they know is PRICE. They got what they wanted to spend. Typical problem.
@@HVACRSurvival yup, the latest version of hyper Heat Hi2, just put in a 15k BTU here at home, super SEER ratings I have 3 other 12K and 2 9k BTU, all year use heating and cooling...so much more efficient and QUIET than the forced air oil. Save a lot on oil. Same oil in tank for years, just run it to make sure it runs. Since gov't is pushing for more electric based stuff, minisplits are perfect, and no local pollution, like burning oil furnace...all the pollution is at the generating plant.
What a joke, just for the hell of it I reversed the lines on my 10,000BTU R22 AC turning it into a heat pump, and with 45 ambient I get 112F inside. I thought these things were supposed to be some kind of an improvement these days with that bull shit 410a gas, GUESS NOT!
That's not how it works...
@@etherealrose2139 Wow, it’s a good thing my AC converted to heat pump can’t read.
1st ...😂😂😂
Like that old song says, if you don't know me by now you'll never know me LOL
Mini-SH-pl-IT'S pl is silent =p
Mini splits , mini sh*ts . The cheap ones are plain rubbish, and the more expensive ones are overcomplicated messes that you can't even get your hands inside , and you almost need to work for the oem to be able to do anything and have the computer software required . They're not supposed to be repairable for the most part anyways...
Thank God I'm not the only one, I know they're more popular in your part of the world but they are usually a pain in the butt, especially the high-tech ones. Everything's secretive and no one really knows how they work to tell you what you're looking for. I've been through Mitsubishi m&p series and through City Multi. I came out dumber than I went in
@@HVACRSurvival 😅
They are used all around the world, i guess the world is wrong, but the u.s. with it's inefficient central air systems is right? Oy vey
Feel better? 😁
I don't get a lot of mini split work ,I've installed 4 they don't seem that bad?
Thanks again for the videos.
🥃🥃🍺🍺🍺🎯🏌🏻♀️
Stay safe.
Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!
Wait till they stop working😉