"Captain's Log, USS Excalibur. Our Battlegroup was attacked by a mixed wing of Galor Is and IIs. Either their sensors malfunctioned or they had a wish to die for Cardassia. In any event, we obliged them with the loss of only a couple ships. Hopefully this will convince the Central Command to seek peace."
I mean, yea that's about the right outcome. There's a reason the Federation considered the Cardassian War a border skirmish, while the Cardassians saw it as a war. No complaints here about balancing. The Cardies would need a 2 to 1 numbers advantage to have a chance. Thumb up!
This is exactly the scenario the cardassians would have avoided at all costs, no way they were winning a set piece battle. Unless like you say they could muster a significant numbers advantage. The starfleet force was 50% Miranda’s and it was still a curb stomp
@@adamlee2111 To be fair, Starfleet did have more ships. So it was actually not an even match, Feds had both the numbers and the tech. And as flimsy as Mirandas are, they can still put a wall of torpedoes in space, especially several of them at once. 3 Mirandas; 3x4 torpedoes per spread; that's more torpedoes at once, then a Galaxy spread! I think that's what actually decided it here. Starfleet focused on a couple Cardie ships at a time, withering them with a multi-ship torpedo barrage, while the Cardassians just lack the firepower to do the same, quickly enough, even on something as flimsy as a Miranda. They can tank it, but they cannot dish it out. And tanking only goes so far. And that brings up something I've been meaning to point out - I think the Miranda has too much torpedo firepower. 4x fore and aft spread is just too much for a ship that fills the role of a frigate (even if it's technically not; it was designed as a light battlecruiser in it's day, but in modern Starfleet, that's the role). And since she's so agile, she can basically deploy 8 photons on target in less then 5 seconds. That's a LOT of dakka in a short time. I think it should have a 2x2 spread. 2 torps front, 2 aft. And compensate by reducing the reload time of each launcher by... 1/3rd. That would still give it the sustained firepower, but not the burst-damage it has right now. Ofc, you could also nerft the torpedoes, but that's.. idk. A photon torp is a photon torp, no matter which ship it's fired from. They can have some minor yield differences, but not much. Basically, the Miranda can put too many of them out at once.
@@necroticavalon5176 I'm testing the 2x2 torpedoes now...I like it so far! Tbf the Miranda's torpedoes are weaker than those carried by heavier ships but like you say, the burst damage is quite high
It was a war. Just because the Cardassians aren't going to take earth anytime soon doesn't mean it wasn't a proper conflict. Fighting a near-peer adversary is never easy. In the 2350s Starfleet is complacent and 90% old ships. They lost plenty of ships and outposts. The US was way more powerful than Vietnam but it was still a was a bloody war. Except the Cardassians are a lot stronger than Vietnam was. They had localized numerical parity and technological parity with the vast majority of starships then in service. The treaty outcome clues us in to exactly how not easy it was.
@@robertcapet9132 For the Cardassians it was a war. For the Federation it was a border conflict. And the treaty was simply a consequence of the Federation's aversion to prolonged conflicts. If they wanted, they could've steamrolled over Cardassia and installed a proxy government. And ofc, given what later happened in the DMZ, and the Maquis, and all that trouble... yea. The treaty was a mistake. Starfleet was complacent, agreed (the Federation basically had no peer enemy), but they had plenty of new ships. Ambassadors were the cream of the crop (Ent-C basically held the line against 3 Amarcan-class Romulan Warbirds during the Narendra incident, and destroyed 2 of them before she was destroyed). Niagara Class, New Orleans class, all the Daystrom Initiative ships (which would later give the Galaxy class). The older ships were relegated to the Cardassian front, because there was no point tying up the new ships in a border conflict. And those older ships were plenty powerful against the Cardies. Before the Galor, the Cardassians basically had nothing that could take on even a Miranda 1 on 1. Vetar class was their best ship back then, and it was a joke. Type I Galors were the first class of ship they built that were any kind of actual threat 1 on 1. Nah, it was a border conflict. That the Federation prolonged for an unreasonable amount of time.
No the Galor I would be closer to that description but even that would beat a 2290's Constitution. Galor I: slightly better than a Miranda, Galor II: a step behind a TNG Excelsior and about equal to the larger Klingon Bop, Galor III: equal to a TNG Excelsior
I see where you're coming from but I don't think that's a fair comparison. That fleet was outnumbered 150 to 20, and 15 Keldons would almost certainly out match 5 warbirds so under the circumstances they did what they could. Cardassian ships were a step behind their adversaries but were decent enough by Ds9: a Dominion War Galor could match a Dominion War Excelsior most likely, and outgun anything below a Vor'Cha in the Klingon fleet
They were way outnumbered, and being tactically controlled to lose by Lovak. Those Obsidian Order Keldons, the Type II as they became, were actually quite credible heavy cruisers. They were very fast, enough to outrun the Defiant by a fair margin at warp and even impulse. They were well protected. I believe it is the only ship we see to get hit by the Defiant's quantums and not only survive, but only suffer modest damage. During the Dominion War we know the Galor Type III's primary SWD cannon was the equivilant of at least the Type XI Phaser Emplacement found on Starbases and the Galor was considerably less powerful than the Keldon. One can infer that the Dominion War Keldon refits was just as more powerful than its DW Galor III refit counterparts meaning it a stronger main cannon and probably more powerful secondary SWDs, probably at the Type X Phaser Bank (as opposed to array) level, plus much stronger shields. We can probably rate the the DW Keldon in the same realm as the Nebula, Ambassador and Vorcha.
@@adamlee2111 One can probably bet the Keldon refits had pretty good shields to go along with their new warp cores. I might go as far as to say the Vorcha overall outgunned the Keldon by a bit (but not great weapons arcs unlike the Keldon) but the Keldon probably had better shields and we know it was faster. Have you played the Keldon Advanced mod for BC? I rather like it. Good overall ship.
"Captain's Log, USS Excalibur. Our Battlegroup was attacked by a mixed wing of Galor Is and IIs. Either their sensors malfunctioned or they had a wish to die for Cardassia. In any event, we obliged them with the loss of only a couple ships. Hopefully this will convince the Central Command to seek peace."
"Inglorious Basterds 2: Cardie Front." The fucking 'Bear Bajoran' clubbing Spoonheads to death with a Klavian!
"Gul Kartoffel to Central Command. These Type IIs are no match for anything bigger than their Mirandas, we need a new Galor!"
Looks like some Gul choked on his aspirations today.
Mirandas take a lickin' but keep on tickin'
That wasn't a battle...its a massacre!!!
The Ambassador class knows 'aggressive diplomacy'...
How do you have that many ships 💀💀💀💀
My game would crash with that many lol.
Excellent video.
Its hit and miss at the moment, sometimes it works fine, sometimes not!
I mean, yea that's about the right outcome. There's a reason the Federation considered the Cardassian War a border skirmish, while the Cardassians saw it as a war. No complaints here about balancing. The Cardies would need a 2 to 1 numbers advantage to have a chance.
Thumb up!
This is exactly the scenario the cardassians would have avoided at all costs, no way they were winning a set piece battle. Unless like you say they could muster a significant numbers advantage. The starfleet force was 50% Miranda’s and it was still a curb stomp
@@adamlee2111 To be fair, Starfleet did have more ships. So it was actually not an even match, Feds had both the numbers and the tech. And as flimsy as Mirandas are, they can still put a wall of torpedoes in space, especially several of them at once. 3 Mirandas; 3x4 torpedoes per spread; that's more torpedoes at once, then a Galaxy spread!
I think that's what actually decided it here. Starfleet focused on a couple Cardie ships at a time, withering them with a multi-ship torpedo barrage, while the Cardassians just lack the firepower to do the same, quickly enough, even on something as flimsy as a Miranda.
They can tank it, but they cannot dish it out. And tanking only goes so far.
And that brings up something I've been meaning to point out - I think the Miranda has too much torpedo firepower. 4x fore and aft spread is just too much for a ship that fills the role of a frigate (even if it's technically not; it was designed as a light battlecruiser in it's day, but in modern Starfleet, that's the role). And since she's so agile, she can basically deploy 8 photons on target in less then 5 seconds. That's a LOT of dakka in a short time.
I think it should have a 2x2 spread. 2 torps front, 2 aft. And compensate by reducing the reload time of each launcher by... 1/3rd. That would still give it the sustained firepower, but not the burst-damage it has right now. Ofc, you could also nerft the torpedoes, but that's.. idk. A photon torp is a photon torp, no matter which ship it's fired from. They can have some minor yield differences, but not much. Basically, the Miranda can put too many of them out at once.
@@necroticavalon5176 I'm testing the 2x2 torpedoes now...I like it so far! Tbf the Miranda's torpedoes are weaker than those carried by heavier ships but like you say, the burst damage is quite high
It was a war. Just because the Cardassians aren't going to take earth anytime soon doesn't mean it wasn't a proper conflict. Fighting a near-peer adversary is never easy. In the 2350s Starfleet is complacent and 90% old ships. They lost plenty of ships and outposts.
The US was way more powerful than Vietnam but it was still a was a bloody war. Except the Cardassians are a lot stronger than Vietnam was. They had localized numerical parity and technological parity with the vast majority of starships then in service.
The treaty outcome clues us in to exactly how not easy it was.
@@robertcapet9132 For the Cardassians it was a war. For the Federation it was a border conflict. And the treaty was simply a consequence of the Federation's aversion to prolonged conflicts. If they wanted, they could've steamrolled over Cardassia and installed a proxy government. And ofc, given what later happened in the DMZ, and the Maquis, and all that trouble... yea. The treaty was a mistake.
Starfleet was complacent, agreed (the Federation basically had no peer enemy), but they had plenty of new ships. Ambassadors were the cream of the crop (Ent-C basically held the line against 3 Amarcan-class Romulan Warbirds during the Narendra incident, and destroyed 2 of them before she was destroyed). Niagara Class, New Orleans class, all the Daystrom Initiative ships (which would later give the Galaxy class). The older ships were relegated to the Cardassian front, because there was no point tying up the new ships in a border conflict.
And those older ships were plenty powerful against the Cardies. Before the Galor, the Cardassians basically had nothing that could take on even a Miranda 1 on 1. Vetar class was their best ship back then, and it was a joke. Type I Galors were the first class of ship they built that were any kind of actual threat 1 on 1.
Nah, it was a border conflict. That the Federation prolonged for an unreasonable amount of time.
Revenge for Setlik III
Please sir can I have sum more.😊
You may 😂
Sorry Im a spacebattle whore.
Am i right in guessing that your Galor2 would be close to 2290's Constitution/Excelsior or TNG miranda?
No the Galor I would be closer to that description but even that would beat a 2290's Constitution. Galor I: slightly better than a Miranda, Galor II: a step behind a TNG Excelsior and about equal to the larger Klingon Bop, Galor III: equal to a TNG Excelsior
@@adamlee2111 That does sound like a good tussle, 2290's Connie or Early excelsior vs galor 1. My money is on Sulu/Kirk mobiles... 🤣😂
@@aaronatwood9298 Its on the battle list 👍
@@adamlee2111 ooo
Cardassian ships are quite weak, even 15 keldon's couldn't help the five Romulan D'deridex class warbirds during the battle of the Omarion nebula.
I see where you're coming from but I don't think that's a fair comparison. That fleet was outnumbered 150 to 20, and 15 Keldons would almost certainly out match 5 warbirds so under the circumstances they did what they could. Cardassian ships were a step behind their adversaries but were decent enough by Ds9: a Dominion War Galor could match a Dominion War Excelsior most likely, and outgun anything below a Vor'Cha in the Klingon fleet
They were way outnumbered, and being tactically controlled to lose by Lovak. Those Obsidian Order Keldons, the Type II as they became, were actually quite credible heavy cruisers. They were very fast, enough to outrun the Defiant by a fair margin at warp and even impulse. They were well protected. I believe it is the only ship we see to get hit by the Defiant's quantums and not only survive, but only suffer modest damage. During the Dominion War we know the Galor Type III's primary SWD cannon was the equivilant of at least the Type XI Phaser Emplacement found on Starbases and the Galor was considerably less powerful than the Keldon. One can infer that the Dominion War Keldon refits was just as more powerful than its DW Galor III refit counterparts meaning it a stronger main cannon and probably more powerful secondary SWDs, probably at the Type X Phaser Bank (as opposed to array) level, plus much stronger shields. We can probably rate the the DW Keldon in the same realm as the Nebula, Ambassador and Vorcha.
@@adamlee2111 One can probably bet the Keldon refits had pretty good shields to go along with their new warp cores. I might go as far as to say the Vorcha overall outgunned the Keldon by a bit (but not great weapons arcs unlike the Keldon) but the Keldon probably had better shields and we know it was faster. Have you played the Keldon Advanced mod for BC? I rather like it. Good overall ship.
@@crownprincesebastianjohano7069 an intelligent post friend, it's a shame we didn't see any Keldon class ships during the Dominion War.
@@adamlee2111 point taken, it's just that I really love Romulan D'deridex class warbirds.
Not even close! Boring!