Rory Stewart On Empire, Austerity & Why Corbyn Was Right About Iraq | Ash Sarkar meets Rory Stewart
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- čas přidán 16. 09. 2023
- Rory Stewart has led a colourful life: diplomat in Indonesia, governor in post-invasion Iraq, founder of an NGO and a Member of Parliament. He’s also run for London Mayor and leader of the Conservative Party. But his latest occupation is podcaster, hosting ‘The Rest is Politics’ with Alastair Campbell. Rory sat down with Ash Sarkar to discuss his admiration for Jeremy Corbyn, why Tony Blair was wrong about Iraq and Afghanistan, and what makes the left think all conservatives are ‘evil’.
You can buy Rory's book here: www.penguin.co.uk/books/44203...
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He’s right. Tories don’t set out to kill masses of people. They set out to line their own pockets. The mass death is just a consequence of their greed and, without any meaningful accountability, they meet it with a shrug and move on to the next grift.
Yup, exactly. It's incidental.
I dunno, they certainly don’t *not* set out to kill a lot of immigrants.
Well put. I’m sure the circumstances of the corporate law as well as state law will allow them to legally walk away from accountability altogether. Whoever they are. Perhaps this is the attraction that draws them in to bugger what little is left of democracy, and get minted in the process.
RS maybe an apologist, but I don’t buy it. I do think he’s trying so hard to relate.
There’s no moral compass. There never was one. Parties don’t have morals.
You must not have heard of Ian Duncan Smith
@JT-si6bl whenever I hear talk about moral character, be it of an individual or a country - propaganda is going on, true or not.
“I’m not arguing there are no decent people in the Tory party but they're like sweetcorn in a turd; technically they kept their integrity but they're still embedded in shit”
- Iain Banks
Or to quote Jeremy Hardy - Voting for the Labour Party is like wiping your bum, you don’t enjoy it but the consequences of not doing it will be worse.
😂😂😂
The absolute BOSS, Iain Banks.
Sweetcorn in a turd is a gem 💎 iv never herd before
Yep. The tories are uncaring and unfeeling. Iain Banks has it down to a 'T'.
What a pleasure to listen to two intelligent, articulate people discussing issues sincerely and in good faith.
Just ask Disabled people that have to go through the system via the DWP and getting refused followed by living in poverty until tens of thousands of them killed themselves over just a few years, followed by the United Nations investigating in 2018 and condemning the United Kingdom's government as having deliberately destroyed the Human Rights and Lives of millions of Disabled.
A genuinely embarrassing comment.
rory stewart is a red tory!! he has always been respectful of jeremy corbyn!!
i thought she did well! usually she is too racist with her views!!@@KlimtEastwood
Rory Stewart tried to say that Scottish independence is wrong because a Celtic tribe once straddled the borders of modern England and Scotland 😂😂
Forgetting that England destroyed the native British celtic peoples
I like Rory Stewart. I don't agree with his fundamental politics but he's a thinking and intelligent person and, like him, I'm not arrogant enough to immediately believe that I'm right and he's wrong. This is what political discourse should be.
Thank you. All the tribalism below the line are just shouting in an echo chamber. Makes then feel good but adds nothing to the public conversation that needs to happen.
I watched him on sam Harris podcast
He really failed on many moral fronts with Sam when confronted with brutal realities in the Islamic world for oppression of apostates and critics of Islam
@@Gphilly819many people don’t understand the danger of Islam. Saying it’s a dangerous ideology doesn’t make me a racist
Even if the Tories aren't getting personal pleasure from the pain they've caused this country, that's hardly a compelling reason to vote for them
They just don't think about it much, because to them, it's just not that important
The tories of no idea of what it like for the majority of us. And they don't care as they fill their pockets with our money. The don't believe in sharing our wealth around, they just want to profit from it. The UN-elected PM just talks the talk.
Left / Liberal policies cause pain as well. There are all sorts of ways in which diversity causes various people to suffer.
I do think that many DO get personal pleasure from the pain they are causing. Just by having inhumane policies attracts a certain crop. Being a Tory politician is a serial killer’s dream job. Can you think of any other field of work in the UK where one could get away with murder at scale AND be celebrated for it by significant cohort of the population?
@@LS-xs7sgmuch like Roy Jenkins’ reforms {minus the decriminalisation of homosexuality} which I’m convinced have harmed our country immensely.
This is only type of political interview that interests me. You’ve got to allow people to expand on their thoughts and ideas in order to fully understand where they’re coming from, even if you disagree. Brilliant interview.
...and surprisingly I found, at least on his beliefs in the structure of governance, we have a lot in common. I also appreciate his position on the difficulty of foreign intervention and his nuanced understanding about the moral responsibility of intervention. Of course I'm not a small 'c' Conservative like him, but I feel like in a different parliamentary system, he would be a valuable member.
Just ask Disabled people that have to go through the system via the DWP and getting refused followed by living in poverty until tens of thousands of them killed themselves over just a few years, followed by the United Nations investigating in 2018 and condemning the United Kingdom's government as having deliberately destroyed the Human Rights and Lives of millions of Disabled.
@@queenvagabond8787he is weak and liberal and part of the problem why we are in the situation we are in .. we need actual conservatives in government
Troll.
@@queenvagabond8787don’t like Criticism of beloved ash communist hero
Rory Stewart is one of a very small number of Tories that has integrity and a conscience.
I have great respect for him.
He's an intelligence operative. Of course he can sound plausible.
Just ask Disabled people that have to go through the system via the DWP and getting refused followed by living in poverty until tens of thousands of them killed themselves over just a few years, followed by the United Nations investigating in 2018 and condemning the United Kingdom's government as having deliberately destroyed the Human Rights and Lives of millions of Disabled.
He paves the way for the opportunists and authoritarians.
@@EdwardLindon they’re not interested in him. There are more direct ways to power. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge a diamond in the rough.
Mi6 spy & the truth - not even funny
THIS is how I wish our politics was conducted. A wonderful, interesting, intelligent debate between two respectful people. Fantastic 🎉
The common denominator in all comments that wish for more sensible debate and shared opinions like this, is Rory. He is a great politician and a loss to the any government or political party. A man with a sound moral, ethical and political compass that has no place in the current Tory party.
@@Ollierastall so the question then become how do we do that ... we know what isnt working so now its a matter of coming up with hypothetical new ways and then subjecting them to the scrutiny of many minds and discards the bad ones and the bad parts of good ones and then uh step 3 profit? idk we'll figure it out as we go .... i mean isnt that the story of humanity ... we'll figure it out as we go ....
Yes. Absolutely.
If only every interview/exchange between opposite political positions could be as thoughtful and considered. Good work Novara.
Agreed. Also important to commend Rory for for being respectful participant.
Best political interveiw I've seen in years.
I agree with you here, this was one of the most interesting downstreams I have watch. Left with a lot of food for thought.
Absolutely, nuance and sincere and honest exchange of views is almost entirely lacking from most areas of public life today and has been for the last twenty years or more (?)
Agreed, I normally can't stand this channel.
'we're not genocidal maniacs', from the party that gave you, 'let the bodies pile high' ...
To be fair that was Johnsen and he left because of Johnson.
@@arjan2777 To be fair he was a bad apple... like Osbourne was... and Patel... and Frost... and Portillo... and Thatcher.... and Truss.... and Braverman... and and and and and..... at some point denying the communality seems pathological..
@@bodricpriest8816 Humans are herd animals. The nest odor is strong on him and that can be very difficult to escape. I smell some cognitive dissonance.
They were all of them horribly wrong but some of them did think they were doing it for the good of the country and others were just in for the benefits. Others were plain mad.
With Johnson the grifters and the mad took over so obviously that many had to leave.
People can get quite far in defending business interests and still believe it is for the good of the country but brexit and how Johnson did it was not the old pro business party, that is the f*ck business party.
This man is the BEST PRIME MINISTER we never had !! I think he has the right attitude and wants to do what is right for this country - it is such a shame he never got the opportunity.
This is one of the best interviews I've seen in a while. I don't think I've ever heard a Tory politician explain his views with such sincerity and humility before. I disagree with some of his core beliefs about nationalism and the role of the British Empire, but he really does care about basic traditional values like the importance of local culture, community, and tradition. Thank you Novara Media (and Ash!) for this content, it really made my day.
Yeah, those certainly aren't just words in his mouth, like some politicians.
@@queenvagabond8787 He explained his beliefs and views in good faith. This is something crucial for having these kind of interviews, discussions, and debates. It gives us a chance to learn from people with different beliefs instead of demonizing and 'othering' them.
There can be no traditional values without nationalism, AKA tribalism.
No culture, no community, no future.
You took the words out of my mouth.
A thoughtful debate. Someone like Rory Stewart can make hardliners on the left rethink some of their fixed views. We need thoughtful debate. In depth enquiry. The sound bite culture at least in mainstream media should be forced to give airtime to proper debate.
“I didn’t *want* hundreds of thousands of people to die because of things I voted for. I was just willing to accept it for my career.”
Spot on!!
Those politicians and their 'difficult decisions'...
"They would have died anyway no matter what I did, so I just decided to dismiss it and get richer instead"
So what was he supposed to do? Rebel against the whip, be deselected and have no chance of influencing political decisions for the better?
@@cheeseofultimatedoom Yes. the idea that one person can have a significant impact on political outcomes is stupid, it requires many people all acting morally and putting pressure on the system in order to create progress. The idea of a politician voting for bad policy in order to influence for good in the future is like becoming rich through exploitation of the working class in order to spend it on "good causes", it will still result in more bad than good, and is driven by an irrational saviour complex.
"We are not genocidal maniacs, We simply don't care"
We simply didn't bother to find out what possible downsides there was to what we were doing. Just as long as we can win the next election; that's all that matters.
one would say that not caring is integral to being a genocidal maniac
'We just think it's be financially beneficial to me and my friends if we let you die.'
@@ince55ant Exactly, lack of empathy is how these things start.
My political ideas don’t align with Rory but i could listen to him all day. I also have respect for him and his opinions. I miss the old days of politics
I am a Stewart-aligned Conservative, and I normally avoid Novara Media - this was a sensational interview, and Ash was professional, knowledgeable and asked stellar questions - amazing video
Even if you don't like Novara you might like Downstream because the guests they have on are very diverse and interesting! Politicians are only on sometimes but they're both left and right, they have journalists, historians, economists, musicians, artists, activists, scientists, influencers, and one time even a guy combining statistical analysis and history to predict the future! They're always given space to speak (which is not common in British journalism) and it tends to be pretty thought provoking.
@@TheAnthraxBiology after this video, I’ll be sure to check this out. To be honest, anything Ash is involved with I’ll be interested in after this video, in spite of our ideological differences.
Professionalism and competency extend past political colours and ideology.
Very true@@maggiepie8810
@@TheAnthraxBiologygenerally NOVARO guests are not diverse, they live in ECHO chamber.
You're right about school history - so much has been airbrushed out of the curriculum. The Cotton Famine - when factory workers in the north west would rather starve then take cotton from slave-owning states. The Peterloo Massacre - where working class people were literally cut down for wanting representation in parliament. There are so many examples of important historical events which are deemed by the Establishment as unworthy of inclusion.
This was such a thought-provoking and civil conversation - so refreshing to hear after all the slanging matches and sound-bites that have become regular political discourse.
we learned about the peterloo massacre in school, but this is the first time i'm hearing about the cotton famine
I had heard of neither but thank you the interesting jaunt through Wikipedia.
The establishment is very much Labour.
@@jackdeniston59 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
@andreakinuthia4197
Nothing has been 'airbrushed out of the curriculum'. Read my longer comment.
Educators, I believe, are generally a left leaning bunch. Your criticisms of them is unfounded and without factual merit.
The Tories are not Genocidal maniacs. They don't seek to deliberately harm people, they just don't mind other people suffering in the name of survival of the fittest, as long as they are in the Apex postion.
Some definitely do
I think some of them actually believe that deregulation and free market economics can fix everything. A few days back I read that J.R Mogg wrote a long memo to Kwarteng arguing for a flat tax of 20% across the board for income, corporation and capital gains tax as a maximum while eliminating pension tax relief. Kwarteng rejected it and then proceeded to blow up the government anyway. These guys were ideologues that genuinely thought that was the best way forward.
Yeah a "survival of the fittest" that generates nothing but mediocrity and idiocy
@@kobinho1917yeah some definitely do
Yes. The Tories sincerely believe in economic ideas proven wrong for decades that just coincidently are congruent with their personal profits. LoL
Really great interview. Was really refreshing to see someone properly interrogate Stewart's worldview in a depth the media largely fails to do.
I could not agree more with the previous comments, Mr Stuart is a rare find in Politics. This man has a highly intellect combined with an ability to explain to people like myself, working class people - the complexity of this age. I am now well informed, enlightened if you like, just listening to this gentleman unbiased perspective.
The Rest of Politics is a triumph. Thank you Ash Sakar for conducting such an interesting interview.
Thank you CZcams for sharing these videos with us.
As an american I have to say it is rare to have this sort of thoughtful conversation between people of opposing political persuasion in the states.
Right now obviously. Reps n Dems have been very similar in the past - even Obama with his Banker advisors.
@@joso7228 absolutely
rare in the UK too, this was a breath of fresh air.
In the states it's more difficult I suppose, because you have the problem in that the visible part of your politics is in large part a dog and pony show. It's hard to find someone with genuine convictions in the whole of on whole side of your whole political spectrum for instance; the "thought leaders" of the republican party, whether politicians or talking heads are, generally speaking, playing to a crowd - it's not really about a genuinely held worldview and conviction but about putting on a show for their audience. How do you engage thoughtfully with that?
I see the second half to my comment where I criticise the dems has been shadow-deleted. CZcams's censor-bot is crazy enthusiastic these days, I wonder if the right-wingers have a point there haha
@@Muzikman127 it's ridiculous
This interview shows you how crippling the government of today is to any member with morals and a well judged perspective
I don't think anyone seriously thinks the Tories go out primarily to cause death, illness and suffering, it's their callous indifference to death, illness and suffering from their insistence that life be made hard to try and force people to strive for productivity and wealth, regardless of the casualties.
Except when it may be useful to change the voting demographic? Just a thought.
I thiink a lot of people believe the Tory party couldn't give a stuff about people's suffering, whether they caused it or not.
What an excellent interview. I wish political discourse in the UK could always be like this.
Seconded - these two don't agree on everything, but they're smart enough to be simply opponents, not enemies, because of it.
Brilliant interview. So thoughtful and incisive. Ash, your work is excellent. Stuff like this makes me proud to be a Novara Media supporter - you’re all running rings around mainstream journalism. Keep up the great work!
And one day Daily Mail and BBC news readers will die out. That just leaves Talk TV and GB News to destroy.
Can you imagine this level of calm, thoughtful and considered discussion on any main-stream news channel today?
Ash Sakar is simply one of the best interviewers and all round media performers in the UK. She is intelligent, thoughtful, warm and all round delightful person. Novara is lucky to have her.
Not just in the UK. She is a better interviewer than anyone on TV in the US as well.
It's Sarkar which means Highness 😂😂
Apart from the delicious irony of regularly calling herself a 'marxist and a communist' (whos regimes were respinsible for 94 million deaths and counting). Then waxing lyrical about it on youtube, the most capitalist video platform ever invented.
Isn' t she wonderful
@@cadenza3210mmm 😂
What a fantastic, reflective interview. Some really great questions from Ash. "Your father was a colonial official in Malaysia. Do you think you romanticise this role that Britain had in the world because you really love your dad". Interesting seeing him been probed on such issues, and fair play to Rory for trying to tackle them thoughtfully and honestly. Thanks both for taking the time to conduct this interview!
I feel like most people explode after being asked a question like that. Rory just buried his face for a bit and then formulated an incredible response. Well done to both of them.
Yes, the interaction between the personal and the societal is a major under current in the discussion. Refreshingly so. What he actually does without putting it into explanatory words is slip the noose of the either/or paradigm and answer from a position embracing /accepting paradox. And until politics and society in general does the same we will continue to be mired in oppositional/conflictual Empiricism, which is great for trashy reportage but not much else.
Good questions do tend to get better answers: I agree with you.
So, vote Tory and accept a bad deal for the more vulnerable in society 🤷🏻♀️ even if you vote for a “nice” Tory, that’s the deal.
It's interesting that most of his reasons for being a Tory seem to be aesthetic or affective, e.g. imaginaries of country and love for dad. And I was quite struck by how lucidly he talks about that.
Well, no, because he also talks about being grounded in Burkeian conservatism, but that potentially rich line of questioning wasn't followed.
Fair play to him coming on. Ash did such a great job.
Stewart is deluded about his party. It is a fact that every time the Tories come to power people die - that is reality. There is a reason for that, their politics are damaging to the population and to the UK as a whole. He may be right if it was like 200 years ago or something but in this day and age, he is wrong. I am not a tory supporter, and usually think he is the more sensible of the Tories, after listening to him defend the indefensible though, my opinion of him has dropped.
The Tories are about greed, and always have been. The only difference between 70 years ago and now is that the Tories in their current form have dropped the mask and exposed themselves in all their monstrous ways and they don't care. Stewart needs to wake up to the reality that he joined a party that lied to him and has been ever since.
Fascinating interview, thank you for arranging it. Rory Stewart is truly a man wrestling with many internal contradictions.
Genuinely could have watched the two of you talk for hours. I thought Ash was great at asking challenging questions and really probing for answers to them, respectfully, without letting him back away. Brilliant work.
Agree👍
the longer you listen to him the more you realise he speaks entirely in contradictions!
Extraordinary political interview and these are incredibly rare these days. Congratulations to Ash but also Rory Stewart for being so willing to engage.
I really really hope that Rory is an honest good man. The UK needs to recover from the harm done by the liars and charlatans that have ruined our country.
That's what happens when government becomes too large, and helps itself to too much of our money.
Theres no such thing as a good Tory!
All TORIES are in fact ALL despicable. Look at their results.
Tories really aren’t all despicable. Tory MPs are a very iffy lot, and some are really off the scale. Tory voters are another matter. Some are unpleasant, some are passable, some led astray by media etc and others very decent (but will not end up producing a good outcome, except in limited ways).
Labour too
@@jamesjohnson2394 Best. Rebuttal. Ever.
@@jamesjohnson2394current or old Labour? Because they haven’t been in power for 13 years. The tories have ransacked this country and inflicted poison on to the most disadvantaged in our society, the two aren’t comparable
What an amazing conversation. The end, when Rory reflects on his father's worldview and his love for him, is really touching. What a powerful ending.
I like Rory Stewart, he is an old fashioned conservative, but still a conservative. He believes he has a good view of the UK and believes he would be a good prime minister. However he can not help his upbringing and born into privilege. When he mentioned what he did when he left school, he walked around Asia a bit, joined the army, joined the foreign office, became a university lecturer (to prince William and Harry by the way) the he thought he would have a go at politics. Everything was easy for him, his privilege entitled him to what the hell he wanted. He will never be able to understand the working classes and how tough it is for people. He has lived in a completely different world.
Despite the privialge, he has made a good round of it! And has sought to improve society as a whole!
TORIES SHOULD BE CONSIGNED TO THE HISTORY BOOKS AS INHUMANE
Really engaging interview - it felt like it was over in 15 minutes! Well done Ash and Rory
I think every conservative should ask themselves WHAT ARE YOU CONSERVING?"
If you are conserving a system that is unfair, racist, destructive, greedy and nihilistic, how are you not a problem?
Absolutely wonderful interview. Brilliant piece of journalism. This is the type of political discourse we desperately need. Thank you!
Mad respect for him coming on and being open
He’s flogging a book
Exactly lol. He’s still a Tory
Fantastic interview, thank you Ash, thank you Rory. More of these please Novara !
A smart interviewer, and an engaging interviewee. We need more of this.
So Tories kill hundreds of thousands of people by accident, or as a regrettable side-effect of dismantling the state. Got it.
Would you argue that Mao and Stalin set out with the intent to kill millions of people through their policies?
@@GG-xd9vcdirect comparison there
It feels like Rory grew up with a very sentimental, patriotic attachment to Britain and the Queen, like a lot of people that grew up in similar circumstances. He then travelled the world (and the country) and saw some of the horrors that he had thus far been protected from leading him to support things like foreign aid and fighting poverty and he’s trying to reconcile those two people together. He can’t bring himself to ditch his sentiment for the queen or ‘country’ but his attachment seems to be little more than sentiment from his youth
I think that's a very perceptive reading of his position. He's an intelligent, interesting and conscientious person who's achieved a lot, but he has a romantic drive that would baffle most people from a less privileged background.
Agreed entirely, got that sense from him on The Rest is Politics too. His conservatism seems to be more of an identity and heritage to him, which is unfortunately why he is in no position to be claiming the Tory party isn't harmful etc. as he isn't necessarily emblematic of your average Tory MP (at the very least had enough morals to resign from the party after BoJo came to power)
I think this is why he was coy about defining what “love of country” means to him. Deep down he knows most things British nationalism celebrates are problematic but he’s not ready to let go of his attachment to those ideals. A Jacob Rees Mogg would have answered this question way more confidently because he wholeheartedly believes in those ideals
@@estheradegoke9060your confusing patriotism with nationalism.
Most people are patriotic like Rory.
Nationalism is something else, most racist nation isn’t parties in EU etc are left wing, look at polices they espouse.
Without queen especially a nation identity there will be chaos. All these migrants very keen to keep there national identity while uk on some kind of self destruction mode
the bloke NEVER voted against military intervention overseas and he wants to think hes not responsible for peoples deaths
If more than half of conservative MPs were half as thoughtful, informed and self reflective as Rory, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in.
Thank you Ash and Rory for this. It's one of the most engaging and interesting political interviews I've ever heard.
“The Accidental Tory”…
I was raised to think the same way…
I voted the same way for two electoral cycles.
Then I realised I was voting for the baddies…
Never looked back…
Interesting! What do you think stops Tories realising this?
Exactly. No forgiveness for Rory. He’s just deluded and doesn’t realise it
Is Rory Stewart just another bandwagoner? He initially supported the Iraq war while millions in London demonstrated against it but later jumped on the bandwagon to say the invasion was a mistake.
perhaps, but I don't think learning and improving one's politics/worldview is necessarily something to be scoffed at. Perhaps he genuinely saw why he was wrong.
(And, after all, when asked about both Iraq and Aghanistan, he actually gives a better account for why and how it was wrong than 90% of the uk liberal left and centre. I think that probably counts for something.)
By which I mean, I _wish_ Rory Stewarts appraisal of the western intervention of Iraq and Afghanistan was a bandwagon. But reality is that even the centre and left of the UK mainstream, the BBC journous and blairites of this world, still basically hem and haw about it. Even recently there was this BBC radio 4 series on billed as a hard-hitting retrospective of Iraq war mistakes, that was disgustingly whitewashing.
For better or for worse (and it's for worse) the account that Stewart gives of Iraq and Afghanistan here is genuinely radical, and _way_ past the mainstream of British politics. To our great shame. That, then, doesn't strike me as opportunist, because his position is not the popular or expedient one to adopt. But perhaps I'm being naïve there
So refreshing to see novara do an actual interview rather than have 5 commentators talk about a 2 min clip. More of this please.
They do long-form interviews every Sunday on Downstream.
the interview brought out the best in both of them! they were both respectful of each other & there was no shouting or abuse from either of them, despite them being on the opposite sides of politics! one person they both agreed on as being someone they admired was jeremy cvorbyn!!
Excellent interview, from two excellent viewpoints. .. ps Rory, you actually are making a difference.
Love this discussion. Absolutism doesn’t exist; we are losing the art of nuance and that means we are struggling to discuss and make progress collectively. Thank you both Ash and Rory for this
Completely agree
Unfortunately there are many absolutists in the comment section, spewing left wing cliches about the right wing. Do you think the interview went completely over their heads?
@@alst4817Tens of thousands of people dying as a direct result of political policy being enacted is fairly fucking absolute. It’s not a debating society, it’s life and death, literally.
@@alst4817 no I don’t think it went over anyone’s heads. I’m not using this moment to paint left Vs right. I’m appreciating a moment where two people with a range of views have an intricate discussion. Parts where they disagree and parts where there is unity of thought.
A rich, rich, valuable discussion. More of this, please!
This is brilliant and I respect the man. Totally disagree with so much of what he says but he has the right to say it and he says it very well. Ash is a very good interviewer.
This was a great interview! Well done ash and Rory. It's fantastic to see that people on opposite sides of the political spectrum can have a dignified and respectful dialogue where both sides listen. If only question time in the House could learn from this instead of being the absolute disgrace that it has become.
Incredible that he defends becoming a Tory with a value for preservation of values and literal conservatism, when the Conservative Party have been a radical force over the transformation of British culture, politics and values for 40 years.
It's true. But then the brand of Toryism that Stewart represents is not the Thatcherite / Neoliberal brand that has dominated the party for both of it's last 2 periods in power, any more than Corbyn is a Blairite.
One of the many problems with our ridiculous and arcane electoral system. Rory Stewart has no business rammed together in a party with Rishi Sunak any more than Wes Streeting does with Dennis Skinner lol. As you pointed out, Thatcherite neoliberalism is a revolutionary ideology, not really a conservative one. Without our arcane and anachronistic duopoly, these people simply wouldn't wouldn't be in the same party.
(and, actually, Streeting and Sunak in a rational world probably belong in the same party as each other. Blairite/Cameronite/Osbournite/Thatcherite, whatever you want to call it, it's much of a muchness).
I see my original reply has already been deleted by the youtube censor-bot. This is really getting ridiculous these days... It's so common...
@@Muzikman127 Don't forget Starmer and Reeves. Rayner is probably the only Labour front bencher right now that is not supportive of Tory policies and she'll probably be sidelined fast if Labour do win the next election.
What I interpreted from this interview was that Rory seems more concerned with how the gentleman's sport of friendly debate and disagreement called politics has become corrupted by increasingly dishonest individuals rather than the real world consequence of policy, governing and creating change. Personally whilst I think the increased level of dishonesty of the Johnson/Truss wing of the Conservative party is gross, they're products of what came before them and are/were the inevitable next step in direction that conservative party has been heading for decades.
He's not interested in change. He said as much. Conserving what is, because that's so great! He's like a "Make UK Great Again" kind of a guy.
Well said
@@doctorfunkshock We should be careful to discern between conservatives and fascists. They're entirely different animals. While that statement taken at face value is something a conservative could say, it has a completely different meaning today because "Make America Great Again" was and is used by fascists. Not to say I agree with conservatives, but give me Rory Stewart over, say, Donald Trump any day of the week.
I don't think that is entirely correct. For example, his probation service reforms corrected a very serious previous conservative policy mistake (made by Chris Grayling, I think; Ian Dunt discusses the Grayling cock up in detail in his recent book), and that shows he is concerned with making real changes. But I think that his deep concern is that the corruption of political discourse means that making meaningful changes much more difficult (or even impossible).
@@bladdnun3016 Not the present incarnation of government - totally fascist in all elements - hocked to corporate interests, outlawing protest, voter manipulation, seven bins kind of lying deceitfulness. Rory is obviously an outlier in the present political complexion, but he is a Tory, in my humble opinion, less than vermin, as a very famous commentator said. Rats can't help being rats - he can. He has a podcast with Alistair Campbell for goodness sake - war criminal extraordinaire, assisting him to be rehabilitated. He actually said he wants to conserve what is - he's not a progressive. The fact that he's "throughtful and reflective" doesn't alter the fact that he's been part of the most destructive party of the last thirty years. At least with Trump you know what you're getting. To me a throughtful and respectful Tory is an oxymoron.
What a great interview ! Thanks Ash ! And thank you Rory for your thoughtful and honest answers !
So much double think going on here. With one breath he'll say that he got into politics to change things, that dissenting voices make parliament richer, and with another say that he accepted that he'd have to toe the line on voting with the party. To deliberately go into politics on the right and then complain about 'how bad the right has become' really is something
I think Rory Stewart supported virtually all Cameron and Osborne's Austerity measures. Didn't seem to have any moral qualms about that.
Did you miss the entire interview lol
@@TheSurrealWolfI don't think they missed it, I think that they, quite understandably, don't care what the REASONING is, because the EFFECTS were so terrible. As a result of austerity, over 150,000 people died unnecessary and avoidable, and often harrowing, painful, drawn out deaths, from starvation, neglect and others. If we add the suicides/murder suicides caused directly by the deliberate cutting of critical services, the number only grows. It doesn't matter WHY Rory and other, allegedly progressive conservatives went along to get along. The effects make the reasoning behind every vote in parliament MEANINGLESS. Do no harm. That should be the MINIMUM we expect from MPs, Ministers and leaders, and we should expect that MPs, Ministers and leaders should be more willing to leave their positions, than to agree to any policy which causes significant harm to anyone.
@@peteredwards2318 jesus christ, give it a rest
@@TheSurrealWolf give what a rest? You made a comment that implied you were missing some context, so I provided it.
@@peteredwards2318 no my comment was suggesting the OP didn't watch the interview. I didnt need a history lesson
The Conservative party needs consigning to history, filed under F for fascist and F for something else.
🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
Spot on
Fascist? I wish!
Sunaks torys are really very right wing, also Sunak is not as intelligent as Starmer. Let's get rid of the fans of fascism & have a compassionate, caring Labour PM
Not really fascists. More like ruthless Corporate Executives.
@@pollytickle8346at this part I'm convinced Starmerites are Russian bots
Tories really don't have the right to talk about 'normal people'. Look at their history. See what they've ACTUALLY done and block out what they SAY they do.
So pacifism and skepticism of the military machine is not patriotic, but being willing to fight in wars that the rich and powerful send you too and supportive of the military (which costs billions annually) is patriotic?
Rory Stewart has all the characteristics of someone I feel I should admire greatly. The one question that keeps me from committing to that feeling is: "For a man of seemingly such integrity, what in God's name was he ever doing in THAT party?". Well, perhaps two questions, the other being "how does a person on either side of the aisle spend so much time with Alastair Campbell without clocking him?". Looking forward to the interview nonetheless.
Alistair is a good bloke imho but I can understand he makes people angry.
I disliked Corbyn because I felt he had sympathy for Brexit even though his lacklustre Remain campaign was his baby for the left. If we had Blair and Alistair they'd have eviscerated the Brexiteers.. Unlike Corbyn Alistair is still loudly criticising Brexit. If only Iraq never happened. We might still be in the EU with decent infrastructure and less inequality. A very very long spell under the Tories.
@@oceanscene22 exactly this. I really like listening to Alistair with Rory, they're just sensible and compassionate also.
The Tory party is, or should be, a broad church. Rory is to the left of the Tory party as Starmer is to the right of the Labour Party. A pretty thin difference.
@@oceanscene22 lmao deluded
Leave Campbell alone are you a tory?
Loved this conversation because it was revealing, if nothing else. I do not mean that negatively. Thanks Ash and thanks Rory.
Look at his voting record!
Very true, but it's also worth listening to his comments on how bullied MPs are in those votes. Not really a good excuse, but interesting to hear. At least he's unique - the only tory to acknowledge how repellent tories are!
He was still one of them, knowing what they are and what type of policies they implement.
It is far too late for 'dear' Teresa to 'uncomfortably reflect' upon the Windrush generation, or to still pretend that anything as archaic as a tax dodging Royal Family is in any way honourable or worthy of such outrageous liberties.
RS talks well and clearly enjoys much about a national history that has served him well but so much of what he has to say comes across as deflection. The rise of an even worse breed of entitled Tory class makes him seem more cuddly by comparison but still he is a Tory. Very evasive regarding the idea that he's more worthy and trustworthy than many of his more dangerous former colleagues. Rory's idea of his own past is typical legacy reworking, selective.
"As long as immoral death driven policies are delivered by efficient uncorrupt technocrats then it's okay" sums up Rory's whole argument.
Can I ask to expand on that a little?
Thanks.
@@staninjapan07how many disabled people died due to how this man voted? When you can answer that question, the original poster’s point will be made clear
@@crayontom9687 I wonder whether you could have typed that number in less time than it took to ask me the question.
@@crayontom9687presumabky he would justify it as being required because austerity was required as a result of the public debt position after 2008 ? I suspect he’s wrong on that but that is a debatable economic question on which there is not necessarily a clear answer
This is a perfect example of the issue with today's politics and something Novara is trying to push against with these long 1 on 1 discussions; the constant need of people to sum up someone's entire argument into 16 words. Fast food discourse for the inane.
This is one of best political interviews I’ve heard in a long time. Amazing job by Ash and fair play to Rory, you’d never hear that level of introspection from, e.g. Campbell.
campbell hates jeremy corbyn while rory stewart respects him!!!
For me, Alastair Campbell enjoys virtue by association…..as Rory presumably knows him well and seems to like him, then he can’t be that bad. 🤷♂️
alastair campbell will never be forgiven for the uk government's decision to invade iraq!!!@@hisdadjames4876
@normankennith7919 Campbell hates corbyn because he wants Labour in government, not some left wing never gonna make any changes or run the country
Tories aren't motivated by suffering but they aren't motivated by the prevention of suffering. They are motivated by the economy improving at any cost.
Fascinating insight into the tory mindset. Rory is honest and thoughtful enough to understand how a certain portion of the population think. Great questions by Ash.
Brilliant, serious, respectful, intelligent chat. You two are a great combination. Please do more.
Ash Sarkar is really great at this.
I wish we had so much more of this. It’s the antidote to our broken polarising current system. There are many places to get a comfortable confirmation of our own position on any subject. This makes me respect both people.
Gosh I like this interview very much! Thanks to Ash for the questions and to Rory Stewart for sharing his views.
This is exactly the kind of open, frank, respectful discussion that our democracy needs!
NYC in the house. I found this interview to be very enlightening. It appears that much of the political discourse in England is very similar to what's happening here in America on many levels. Ash does a great job and I look forward to watching/listening to more of her interviews.
i have infinitely more respect for Rory Stewart than the likes of alister campbell and I feel like this interview encapsulates why
They're not genocidal maniacs. They just have to make " tough decisions".
What is this, greedy sociopathic monsters can be personable too?
The most intelligent interview conversation I have seen & heard in as long as I can remember. Two highly professional people, respectful of each other and the subjects conducting a very imformative dialogue. HUGE RESPECT to you both🙌🙏
When he said that parliament no longer has as much importance as media in terms of setting the agenda, I could not agree more. Politicians don't move people anymore headlines do and that needs to change.
Genuinely fantastic interview. Regardless of your political position and opinion of either Ash the communist or Rory the Tory, you would have to admit this was a fascinating discussion. Very well put and considered questions, bravo
I reckon IDS definitely rubs his hands together every morning...
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Rory - I am a lefty. I care passionately about the countryside ! This Tory government clearly doesn’t ! I worry about species extinction, use of pesticides which are killing our bees. I want a right to roam more than the 8% decreed by landowners. I resent the implication that Tories care about the countryside more than the Left !
When will people get into their heads that 99.999% of people in his class will never give a fk what happens to poor ppl even if they themselves think they care
And then there was Suella.
Voting for the Party, and not voting for your representative to parliament is everything wrong with the political system.
Strong disagree. Successful socialist parties like MAS or PT have incredibly strong whips. Basically if you rebel more than once you're out. Policy is decided by the membership and politicans are merely there to enact it. Could you imagine how much better Labour would be if that's how things worked?
Exactly, first responsibility is to the voters. The challenge is to find out what the majority of their voters want. The party knows what it wants but the same can not be said of it’s knowledge of the voters wants. They seam to try to tell the voters what they want instead of having the voters tell them what they want.
Agree, voting for a party over a representative is a step away from democracy.
@@valq10 I get the feeling that democracy is not one of your priorities.
@@st.george007 Agreed. The constituents representative to parliament, not parliaments representative to the constituents.
Very interesting conversation. Civil and respectful.
One of the most interesting and amazing interviews I have listened to,professionally done by ash however Rory Stewart was fabulous with such candour
Genocidal maniacs is EXACTLY how I would describe the authors of the austerity programme (namely George Osborne) but Ash has a point that Rory's loyalty to his old-fashioned notion of conservatism makes him blind to the evils that Tories are doing in the present. Still, his defection was admirable and he is smart enough to say that not only a PR voting system should be introduced but that the two-party system is unworkable. Coalition politics is the only thing that can bring us into the 21st century because, as Rory says, parliament as it is today is irrelevant.
A project that “was projecting rigid fantasies on to people’s lives … insensitive to local communities, to landscape, to texture, to culture … I believe in … the wisdom of local people”.
Refreshing to hear an ‘old fashioned conservative” describe thatcherism’s adventures in the mining and industrial communities of the north of England this way.
Well said. There’s nothing conservative about economic neoliberalism/social and cultural Blairism.
@@danieldonovan7167 Thatcher was the first Blairite
He's insane. The point where his moral capacity was reached was brexit? Not austerity or libya or anything else?
A great interview by Ash and excellent thoughtful responses from Rory. A very genuine good faith discussion between two of my favourite people
He says his voting record is not a reflection of the type of person he is, and not to judge him for that (votes for austerity, etc.); that it doesn't tell you anything about him as a person…. then, basically, goes on to say why his having voted for gay marriage and progressive legislation makes him a nice person.
You don’t pull the wool over my eyes, Mr Stewart. You’re a Tory and Tories are all the same.
Gay marriage though was a free vote in parliament so MPs could vote with their conscience. His basic argument was when you're a minister, you either vote with the government or you resign. Therefore for the sake of maintaining what power you feel you do have as a minister, you vote with government even if you personally would vote against the government if it was a free vote.
He didn't make it clear but he was distinguishing between free and unfree (whipped) votes in parliament. The gay marriage one was a free vote.