Goodbye Youtube... What The Watcher Scandal & New Apology Really Exposed & Today's News
Vložit
- čas přidán 13. 05. 2024
- Quite a wild weekend and Monday for that matter...
Step into Spring with Vessi at www.vessi.com/pds for an automatic 15% off your first purchase at checkout + free shipping to CA. Thank Vessi for sponsoring the show.
US, AU, JP, TW, KR, SGP.
====
✩ TODAY’S STORIES ✩
-
00:00 - Watcher Will Allow Fans to Watch For Free After Paywall Scandal
5:29 - Paste Magazine Conceals Critic’s Identity Over Swiftie Threat Fears
9:30 - Sponsored by Vessi
10:26 - US Studios Unknowingly Outsourced Animation Work to North Korea
13:06 - Congress Passes Spy Program Renewal, TikTok Ban and Foreign Aid Bills
17:50 - Comment Commentary
----------
Produced by: Cory Ray
Edited by: James Girardier, Maxwell Enright, Julie Goldberg, Christian Meeks, Matthew Henry
Art Department: William Crespo
Writing/Research: Philip DeFranco, Brian Espinoza, Lili Stenn, Maddie Crichton, Star Pralle, Chris Tolve, Jared Paolino
------------
#DeFranco #Watcher #TaylorSwift
------------ - Zábava
![[Vowel]물고기는 물에서 살아야 해🐟🤣Fish have to live in the water #funny](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3G9MH063Cx4/mqdefault.jpg)
The comment section on Watcher's announcement was majestic. It turns out you either die an independent youtube channel or live long enough to see yourself become Buzzfeed again.
I kept renewing that tab to see the glorious fuck around and find out they got.
They couldn't have misjudged their audience more
Spent at least an hour in the comments upvoting everyone sharing their "oh hell no" opinion. I loved it.
@@user-di6cn2ne7uyeah bunch of weirdos demanding them to keep pumping out content for free and working with every shady sponsor they can get
Organisms evolve into crabs. Channels evolve into Buzzfeed
If I had a nickel for every time 3 ex-Buzzfeed employees had to sit on a couch over a controversy, I'd have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird it happened twice.
Yeah unoriginal comment
@@richardbeater8915And this is an original critique?
If you broaden it out of the former Buzzfeed team, you've got the Valleyfok in there too :(
I had a 45 year old coworker throw her water at me and the glass at another coworker and march out of the lunch room because we said we didn't really like Taylor Swift. HR had to step in and this woman was actually fired, but it was wild. An adult assaulting coworkers at the workplace over an opinion on a musician...
Bro, WHAT
Lol
45 year old doing that over someone not liking taylor swift is indeed wild lmao
That’s fucking nuts
I’ll take “things that never happened” for $200, Alex…
My favourite comment on that video was "the old shane would want us to pirate it" and as an old fan of them when they were BuzzFeed Unsolved its true
As a casual watcher of watcher, the issues I saw were:
1. The way the went about announcing the news. They had a countdown to some big reveal and drummed up a lot of hype and mystic prior to posting the goodbye CZcams video. Fans expected some exciting news but were instead told all the content they could previously watch for free was now going to be paywalled on a streaming service, and they could either pay up or so long, thanks for being a fan.
2. Saying 6 USD is affordable. They have a lot of fans from all over the world and when you convert $6 USD to other currencies it's no longer affordable. As a side note, their streaming service price is almost the same price as an Amazon, Disney or Netflix subscription in my country.
3. Patreons got screwed over. A lot of Patreons joined for the extra bonus content like behind the scenes videos but were instead told Patreon would be converting to podcast only and if they wanted to see the normal videos/bonus content they would have to fork out again for a separate streaming service. From the backlash, I also got the impression that a lot of Patreons were paying because they wanted to support the channel. When it goes from voluntary support to you must pay a subscription fee to watch our content it changes the dynamic. It's no longer "supporting my favourite creator" but paying for a service.
They clearly have no buisiness acumen between the blatant nepotism and uninspired content. You can take the Watcher people out of Buzzfeed but you can't take the Buzzfeed out of the Watcher people.
For me it was really the amount of content you would get for $6. I could see it being worth it if they had a few videos coming out a week in addition to the podcast. Still wouldn't call it affordable though.
I live in the Philippines and converting $6 to our currency is not cheap considering the inflation in our current economy
It’s all of this plus the fact that they think they have enough content to make a streaming service. We have seen models where this works like Nebula and dropout TV. Watcher doesn’t have the amount of content nor the content scheduling to fully justify going completely separate streaming
Saying 6 USD is affordable and then you pretending like it's only a problem for people in other countries.
The United States has plenty of people living paycheck to paycheck. A recent study suggests that upwards of 75% of all Americans are paycheck to paycheck, meaning $6 is a LOT for the vast majority of Americans. Saying their service is about the same price, however they don't have the catalog that the other stuff has. Assuming they have extra content, their CZcams has 378 videos and the first video is from 4 years ago. Netflix alone has over 17,000 titles. Disney has 1,254 Movies and 758 TV shows (not counting episodes, or seasons, just TV shows)
They would be the ONLY ones creating anything on said Watcher platform, and I did not see or hear anything relating to bringing other creators in. Trilogy Media, started their own streaming service, however they have several other creators who also upload to their platform, it is not just Trilogy Media, the same way Motor Trend on Demand is no longer just 5 shows, 3 of them having the same host. It's dozens of creators and studios making content.
The value is not there for $6. In any capacity unless you just like to watch or support them. Money is getting so tight in the United States, there's now an entire movement on not tipping servers and delivery drivers who survive off of tips because of how must stuff costs. It's $20 USD for me to order a uncooked Papa Murphys pizza BEFORE tip to my house. The cheapest pizza I can have delivered, is a small, 12" pizza, that lasts 1 day, and it's $17 and that's without a tip, and it's half the size. Most Americans aren't doing good either
Forbes Advisor 2023 Survey: How Many Americans Are Living Paycheck To Paycheck?
Payroll.org: Increase in Americans Living Paycheck to Paycheck in Just One Year
Federal Reserve Board: Economic Well-Being of U.S. Households in 2022
Threatening someone over a Taylor Swift album review is WILD
Eating three at a time?
@@ajjameson154 huh?
@@Kenjionigodoh, I think they’re just poking fun at how you said “threating” as opposed to “threatening.”
sounds like a normal swifty
@@user-sf9gs2pg1b Autocorrect claims another lol
I feel that part of the reason the watcher comments for the first video were so harsh was the fact that a few days before they announced that they were bringing on the Worth it guys from BuzzFeed, and 4 days later say they aren't making enough money to stay on CZcams. A lot of fans just felt it was so tone deaf and asking" why are we paying for someone to fly around eating gold icecream while we have to choose between food and rent?"
"Liking or hating someone should not be your entire personality." That should be a quote for everything lol
This should be on a tshirt
And yet that can also be used as a deflection of any criticism
@@conormurphy4328 I think there is a difference between a valid opinion or constructive criticism and someone making it their whole entire personality, or jumping on a bandwagon cause it’s cool to hate
@@asdjklasdjkl105 there is, unfortunately many people will only recognise all criticism of something they like as the second option.
@@conormurphy4328anime profile picture and your comment tells us everything we need to know about your online activities.
The idea that anyone could have their life be threatened simply for saying “I don’t like this person’s work” is horrifying. When did having preferences in the realm of entertainment become so violent and divided?
Exactly. & the dramatic irony here is that Taylor herself has already called out & discouraged this behavior, before she even released Taylor's Version of Speak Now. & yet hoards of folks claiming to care about her blatantly went & did the one thing she practically begged them not to do 🤦♀
@@feliciaroseantoniaDiscouraged how?
Our legal system needs to take threats against a person's life even if made online seriously, but they don't.
Sometime around 2004, it was just rare back then
Taylor cultivated her fan base she says no and they ignore her
I'm so glad watcher listened and didn't double down. The thing with dropout too is that they're producing so much content, and it's content that people love. It's clear right now that the shows being produced by watcher aren't wholly going to satisfy the fan base and based on some of what they've announced so far, it wont in the future either.
What i really hope they've listened to most is the fact that we aren't looking for high end quality. We were here for the dynamic and the laughs and as they moved to be Watcher and started putting more budget into their ghost hunting, it's become less interesting content. We're here for the vibes, they don't need to worry about the gear or video quality being top tier.
Coffeezilla also echoed this statement about how, despite what creators believe, better production doesn’t mean better content.
I hope they take that lesson away from this as well and not just, “People don’t want to pay 6USD a month”. Because “TV Quality Content” is absolutely not what built the fanbase.
@@apathysarahndrome6602 Yeah, this. Why are these people clamoring back to wanting becoming a TV show, when they already have an audience that enjoys them being an indie youtuber. Roosterteeth already proved to me how wrong that vision can become.
@@Kaimax61 Yea and probably gonna be a hot take but, I have felt the same way about MrBeast's evolved content being super high production these days. The last real high production vid I loved from his was the Squid Game one. After that I really wanted more less high production value stuff like his older content. I love high production content but only in occasion. Kinda why I Smosh Pit/Games channels are one of my favs
@@Kaimax61 in fairness, roosterteeth's ultimate failure was not wanting to be more like TV, but rather from them turning over business operations to an outside entity.
I think that’s a big thing people see dropouts success as a sign they can do it to but
1 dropout did it early
2. They produce a massive amount of content (I’ve been subscribed for a year total off and on and still haven’t caught up on several shows)
3. They produce high quality content not just have high quality cameras.
4. They have a large variety of content watcher seems super one note
The idea of getting death threats over a review is actual batshit insanity. This is why I’ve always hated hardcore Stan culture for anything. If someone doesn’t like something I like, good for them. It doesn’t take away any of my enjoyment.
Exactly! Where does this idea that everyone has to like the same thing? Also with as popular as she is I think it's safe to say most people do like her why do they care so much that some don't?
Anne rice fans hiding in the shadows…
And the double standards. They can bash my likes without me getting testy but when I bash their likes, it's on like Donkey Kong.
If you send a death threat you deserve to go to jail
huh, we're getting closer to the origin of "Stan" every day. Interesting.
As a huge watcher fan as happy as I am about the update the WHY this happened in the first place really concerns me. Even in the update video they say that they cant survive on youtube alone DESPITE revenue from: a youtube channel with almost 3 million subscribers, sponsored videos, a full patreon, live shows, and merch tells me they are mismanaging money somewhere and that hasn't been addressed at all.
Unless it’s pressure from the employees for raises? Would be interesting to hear from employees
They've got a totally bloated staff who they refuse to fire, they don't know how to use their social media properly, and they don't change their content at all. I mean how is uploading 8 episodes of Mystery Files in a row going to help catch the algorithm at all.
The problem is they have an excessively large team that they are reluctant to trim down in size, and they are putting too much money into the production quality of their content compared to other CZcamsrs. 3 million subscribers can make you a decent amount of money for sure - but it doesn't make you the kind of money where you can have 20 full time employees, a recording studio/office to accommodate them all and the expensive recording equipment required. While I respect the fact that they were trying to find a solution where they didn't have to fire anybody or have the quality of their content take a hit, it was an unrealistic goal and what they came up with had no chance of being successful. Unless they had a huge amount of money to burn the only way forward was firing some employees and moving to a smaller recording studio/office realistically - a decision that was likely too tough for them given that those employees are likely their friends by this point.
They have an excessively large staff and didn't hire a PR team because Sara Rubin's comment highlighted in the video about a survivable wage when they all drive expensive cars and can throw down 50k on a wedding venue is insane.
My whole issue with the Watcher saga is that it showed that they don’t know their audience at all. It seems they did little to no market research on how moving platforms and a paywall would affect people. There were also other avenues they could have taken- like CZcams memberships, actively advertising their patron, GoFundMe even. Partnering with a pre existing platform like Nebula could have also helped with the advertising issues they claim to have.
They also could have been upfront and said ‘hey we are having money issues’ instead of springing this on the audience all of a sudden.
"We all need to spend more time listening to others, instead of simply assuming that our interpretation is the only correct one." If only everyone could understand how powerful that sentence could be..
Hey Phil - I worked for Watcher as a production intern (and still freelance for them occasionally) and I have had a first hand view of how much they care about their fans. since watcher started they have seen themselves as an episodic television-like production company. being a slave to the CZcams algorithm and constantly fighting to stay relevant is exhausting when all they want to do is make good content for people. was it the best business decision? no, it was likely a misguided attempt to stay relevant and afford to do what they love. I cant fault them for wanting to make the best for their fans. i love that whole team with my whole heart and i’m so glad theyve listened to their fans and made the adjustment. I truly hope their channel can recover.
Cool to hear about this from someone who was involved with them.
I appreciate your first hand insight. It's hard to know as viewers what goes on behind the scenes, so everything circumstantially put together, looked really bad for them. It was easy for fans to assume the worst with streaming fatigue I imagine.
Gotta find that sweet spot between productions costs and income from episodes. That's not fans fault at all. If you want to up the production cost. That's a business choice. If it's not paying off. You need to decrease production cost. Not demand money from fans. Very misguided. As you say.
If they asked me I would have said find a way to make what you want in an APPROPRIATE budget.
@@davidandrews5262absolutly agree! It’s hard to say no to cool and fun things in production - especially when the idea of “ghost hunting in Europe” has been something they’ve been wanting for years. finding that balance is hard, but cannot be overlooked
maybe im a evil hearted troll but this sounds like BS its just too perfect.
You know the Watchers fucked up when they wind up on the Philip DeFranco Show
🤣🤣🤣
Moist and LTT also covered them lol
I said this when Charlie covered it but if Phillip D is on it they done fycked up
@@nicka5040wait linus tech tips covered this? Where. I saw coffeezilla covered it on his second channel voidzilla
They nearly went from Watcher to Watched
From what I saw when Watcher first announced they were moving platforms, it wasn’t the announcement that made people angry, it was the initial statement that said they were going to scrub all of their content currently available on CZcams and reupload it behind a paywall. After the backlash they backtracked that statement. And the patreon supports thing didn’t help either.
As a person that already pays for CZcams premium because I listen to videos as background noise at work. I couldn’t afford another subscription service and I love Watchers videos. I’m glad they changed their minds. I’m 100% okay with waiting a month to see new videos.
I knew there was no possible way that Watcher would be missing from this show today.
I also knew there was no possible way they wouldn't change their minds after they saw how the fan base reacted
I'm glad it was acknowledged
Taylor swift fans are children
I just want to know what they THOUGHT the reaction would be. Because watching from the sidelines, it was so transparently a bad decision. But somehow they didn't realize that. I wish I could've seen what the conversations were like behind the scenes, and if there were any dissenters who were overruled. Would be interesting to find out.
That part
@@simpoly6929 the comment has zero to do with tailor swift....
As a huge fan of the Watcher crew since their Buzzfeed years: I think a lot of the negative reaction was because it was seen as them going full-throttle to the *nuclear* option, with zero warning. (By contrast, Dropout launched over the course of at least six months.) There was a lot of shock and questions about why they hadn't done CZcams memberships, or joined Nebula, or teamed up with other ex-Buzzfeed creators for a streaming service (since Watcher doesn't have that content library to really justify their own platform.)
And a lot of fans were encouraging them to do a Patreon instead- *because a lot of us didn't know they already had one.* That opened a different can of worms over how badly they seem to have missed the mark on self-promotion, especially with cross-promoting their shows, advertising merch, their Patreon, their tours (only found out yesterday that they're doing live shows in the UK *right now*- as a UK fan, I would have fought to get tickets!!). So that's raised a lot of questions about the business and marketing and who the hell was advising them- especially as this annoucement was hyped up as this big exciting thing. Then instead of getting a new show or merch line, we got "hey guess what??? you get to pay us money!!! 🎉"
Overall, from the inside of the fandom: it was a sucker punch, horribly executed, badly researched, tone deaf, and a dumpster-fire clown show. They fucked up- but they copped to it, and offered a genuinely good apology and response. I respect that. And I've loved these idiots and their content for years, so- I think I have enough goodwill left to stick with them and see how it goes, for now. But a lot of us are left with a sour aftertaste, and I think they may have squandered a dangerous amount of goodwill. I hope not, because despite everything, I'm really, genuinely rooting for their success (hey, they might actually get a paid sub out of me in the future, if they don't fuck up again- once they earn some trust back)
I had the same thought about why they didn't do youtube memberships like other channels have started doing. I didn't watch the video or the followup though, I felt like I was gonna get secondhand embarrassment cuz I knew people would be upset 💀
Its fascinating how over and over again we experience how things like cults and extreme groups get going, from celebrities, to politicians, to fictional characters and something as basic as ideas turning into another example of people completely losing touch with reality and devoting mind body and soul to something in a profoundly unhealthy way
On the critic story, I remember once James Stephanie sterling having Nintendo fanboys attack her for her negative review and her response was “I’m obviously the biggest fan of all, because I want the industry to improve” and that comes to mind here. If you actually love an art you have to be able to be critical of it
The thing about dropout is that when it switched:
1. Patreon wasn't as prominent as it is today
2. With the switch there was an expansion in the amount and variety of content put out
3. Nothing that was currently on CZcams was being put behind a paywall.
Hell even dropout has plenty of free content on their various CZcams channels, I can lose an entire day just watching their shorts let alone the plethora of free episodes available
I recently began subscribing to dropout. The return on value I get for the amount that I laugh watching game changer is well worth $7. VIP is hit or miss, but when it hits, I still feel like it’s more worth it than the $15 rooster teeth subscription. And I’m just now getting into Dropout’s dimension 20.
I think a channel just needs to put out worthwhile content, and their community decided it wasn’t worth it. Smosh has been on a come up lately, despite the mystery surrounding Sword AF season 2, and I’ve been enjoying their videos. If they decided to go subscription only, I wouldn’t pay. I like their content, but not enough to pay for it.
If any content media companies are looking to dropout for inspiration, they’d better be making dropout levels of media, and that’s no small feat.
@@hvnterly8388I was on the fence about whether or not to sub for dropout but you convinced me lol
It seems like what Dropout had going for it was the amount of content it was producing. I’ve also found the ROI for Dropout to be better than most of the big streaming services.
I’m not that familiar with Watcher. Did they have a lot of varied content? If not, why would you even think this would be a good idea.
Except Patreon was pretty prominent back then. If not, it was hitting its peak of CZcamsrs going to Patreon because of the Adpocalypse in 2017, a whole year before Dropout was founded. To say patreon wasn't as prominent is just misleading. Watcher guys said everything on the CZcams channel would stay up on the channel but they'd move forward on the subcription service, which is what happened with Dropout as well. Um Actually is now a Dropout exclusive, with them sometimes putting videos on youtube as a marketing strategy, like a "there's more where this came from" mentality. I think the dropout switch is a great one-to-one, and it shows that it was just a major misstep on the part of the Watcher guys
The fact Philly D covered it means this really was scandalous for Watcher. As a fan since their Buzzfeed Unsolved days I am happy about their turn around. That being said I am still a little cautious. I'm going to wait and see how it goes then make a call on if what Watcher TV is offering will be worth it
I loved watching their ghost stories. I was bored with all of their other videos. So I hadn't heard about this story until Philly D.
Lmfao, carrying the philosophies of Buzzfeed everywhere.
You made a comment literally before the story was finished being told in the video
@dbzgeek123 probably because I already knew about it since I'm a member of the community and was both shocked and happy Phil decided to discuss it.
Taylor swift fans are children
My best friend is a swiftie. I am a stay. I get excited for her when Taylor drops an album. She gets excited for me when stray kids drops an album. We both give each other the opportunity to listen to said new album and then get excited to listen to each others reactions, and then fully acknowledge that the other person does not care about the artist we like and that’s totally 100% ok
I think the biggest issue with the watcher is that they do have a lot of revenue streams, they have patreon, live shows, popular merch, most of their videos have sponsors tied to them, and all of their videos are monetized, I genuinely think that what ever financial issues watcher is facing is self inflicted.
Yup, Ironmouse just said yesterday on stream that she's still getting hate for winning the content creator award at the gaming awards last year, including death threats and people asking why she hasn't died already. The swiftees going after that journalist is sadly all too understandable nowadays. No end to it. And of course, as an Ironmouse fan I suppose I should include the idiotic situation of people going after CDawgVA after his cyclathon because they couldn't even be bothered to work out that the IDF he raised $1mil for was the Immune Deficiency Foundation and NOT the OTHER IDF... I mean... what the hell is wrong with people?
+++
It's insane that these people would do whatever it takes to bring them down. Especially if it's for a good cause. So heartless
Just angry people who hate themselves probably
People have went too long without getting punched in the mouth for what they say.
Bahaha Chris's fault for making all those IDF jokes in the last cyclathon. Did not age well, unfortunately
As a Watcher fan who's been around since the Buzzfeed days, I think a lot of fans were so upset by this news because Shane has expressed very anti-capitalist views for years, even before "eat the rich" was a trendy thing to say. He has said on camera how he believes rich people are horrible, pirating is good, etc. etc. Ryan has never really argued this and it was never edited out of their videos, so the fans who have been around know this well and felt like they have sold out and have turned back on their beliefs (or at least, Shane has)
I'm glad they listened and changed things, but I hope they keep this in mind in the future
Anti-capitalist sentiment doesn't mean someone doesn't still have to exist within capitalism. They made that decision likely because their content in the current economics of CZcams might not have been enough to support their team. They're clearly not business guys and they fumbled a bit.
My biggest problem with other commies is their knee-jerk reactions to some people just existing under capitalism and making a change to reflect that.
That was a lot of my frustration too. I will sit through every single ad for channels I care about. Watcher is included on that list - I want them to succeed. A paywall would have cut off access to people like me who will donate when the money is there but are otherwise unable. (That's still not touching the fact that in some countries $5US is a huge chunk of their income, though. Out of everything that felt the most out of touch, and I'm glad to see they are listening to their fans.)
Maybe cause I’m desensitized or in a more neutral side in all this, but I didn’t think the paywall was bad. $6.99 a month was how much I originally paid 8 years ago for roosterteeth. Like it’s understandable when you think about the production Quality, and employees. As long as they don’t do what roosterteeth did that ran them into the ground, I’m gonna keep supporting them.
Tbf, Brennan Lee Mulligan (one of the heads of dropout) is one of the biggest anti capitalists I've seen in media. Capitalism is at least a contributing factor of the big bad in almost every D20 show. Heck, he almost lost potential points, despite his competitive nature, when given the prompt to defend Elon Musk, and this man will do almost anything for the chance of getting a point. But Dropout is also very open and forward that their company's goal is to make money in order to keep artists fed and housed, to give talent and crew hiring opportunities, and such. Saying that they have a company so they can give their friends money is an ongoing truthful bit. They are a top tier ethical company under forced capitalism.
@@midnightdoll_art Yes but they're very well off. Steven drives a Tesla and Shane's wife bought at least two wedding dresses for her wedding. I'm not judging how they spend their money, but it's insulting to see all that and they still bar their content for money when people (like myself) struggle to get by with what we have to pay for to survive. I make about 13k a year and roughly 70% of my income goes to my rent with a roommate. I budget pretty well, but my parents still have to help me with things like insurance costs or car repairs
The Watcher change just seems like temporary fix on an issue that is going to continue to occur. Watcher DOES NOT compare to Dropout. Steven Lim is not Sam Reisch.
Watcher is a bloated company with too many employees (who also happen to be family and friends), with poor social media management and stagnant content production. This change fixes literally none of those 3 issues, it can ONLY temporary boost them a bit.
CZcams already has a join feature that paywalls certain content. Seems like it would be easier to convince people to join that over a separate streaming service.
I suppose it's because CZcams takes about 30% for every membership a channel gets. But I do agree. I honestly think that it would be fair for them to even charge $10/month to offset the cut CZcams would take.
The goal was to not rely on youtube, which judging from other channels I've been following, is a really good idea. Using youtube join feature defeats that goal. I also know of at least one channel the join feature did not work out for them and in the end the channel die.
I’ve seen a couple channels basically come out and say hey CZcams is being weird with the revenue again
@@makennarudolph but for the 30% they basically get the platform. If they are create their own platform that's going to cost them a lot of money to operate.
This is why I like Dropout. They upload some full episodes of their shows for free on CZcams. Usually after a certain amount of time. But I enjoy them so much (Dimension 20, Game Changer, Etc.) that I decided to subscribe to their service. It’s actually a ton of great content.
Game changer is so fucking funny.
The variety and volume on Dropout is great, which is why it's the only creator platform I pay extra for!!
But they do a great job of balancing free vs paid content
I just wish I could watch their videos in another window while I do other phone stuff like I can on CZcams. But I've been subscribed for a couple years now.
i feel like thhat is what these guys werre goint to do, run their stuff on the second service, and power th first empisode to yourube to draw people over. the main difference is one, i know droppout has wuality content, and 2, they ahve a crapload of it, not just old conetnet, but everyu season is like 6 shows, if not more.
@@AnanasboatI’m able to, maybe check your settings?
As a Swiftie, there’s a lot of truly unhinged, embarrassing stans. I enjoy my little albums, watch specific reviews channels and don’t go on Twitter or TikTok.
Also a longtime Watcher fan, and I am so relieved by their update. More than it being a betrayal to their community who followed all of them from Buzzfeed, it felt like a horrible business plan. I hope them acknowledging their error and finding more sound solutions will allow them to succeed.
If you ask any fan of the Watcher they will be quick to tell you that the personalities and interactions between the cast is the biggest reason we watch them. Because of that I think a lot were disappointed in their original video as it felt like we got got. Overall tho I think their apology is the best way they could have gone about this and I look forward to continuing supporting them and their content.
I think a part missing from the watcher segment is a big part of the backlash was to them saying “Anyone can afford $6 a month for our subscription” when many people, myself included, can barely afford to eat right now. It was incredibly insensitive and hurtful. Though, the apology was appreciated and I’ve decided to resubscribe and continue watching their content.
I'm not trying to be mean but I'm generally confused what people mean when they say 6 dollars a month isn't affordable.
It feels like I'm really out of touch when I see all the comments saying 6 dollars is a lot. I make quite a bit less than the average US salary at around 38k a year and I still don't see 6 dollars as unaffordable.
Would I pay for this? No. I don't want another subscription service but I hesitate to say 6 dollars isn't affordable. It's the price of a latte nowadays
@@BrainStormTnT I can’t afford to buy food. Like I’m literally going to food banks. I have to choose between food money and my mortgage. I cannot afford to spend $6 a month on a subscription service.
@@BrainStormTnT These guys live pretty lavish lives and have many ads and brand deals in their videos. They're definitely not hurting for cash. It's largely coming off as insensitive when saying "anyone can afford it" when their audience is mainly teens to young adults who can't justify paying for another subscription service. Especially when it's content we used to get for free.
I make about 13k a year. I budget pretty well with a roommate and some help from my parents on certain things, but $6 a month for something I don't need is a no-go for me
@@BrainStormTnT bro there was a time where i couldn't afford groceries, let alone a $1 cheeseburger from McDonald's, simply because my bills took up 99.99999% of my paycheck. Just because you're in a spot where $6 a month is something you can throw away without blinking doesn't mean everyone else is the same.
@@rumpeltyltskyn Fair enough. I was just curious.
In regards to the watcher situation: they hired too many staff, decided they wanted production value none of their audience were asking for and when they realised they couldn't sustain it, they not only decided to make it their viewers problem by placing everything behind a paywall, but actively told the people who were ALREADY supporting them on patreon "yeah, you're gonna have to pay us too" (at a discount). It was an unbelievable fumble and while I don't think they're greedy, they've proven that they have built a business model that DOES NOT WORK and people do not want to support idiocy.
we already have too much idiocy going on in Congress we don't want it from the JOYS we get in life.
its greed, plain and simple
In the announcement video they also made it clear they were okay with excluding fans that cannot afford the subscription fee, which was wildly insulting and cold, especially for all of their international fans who don't even have the option of a fee that is in any way affordable in their countries. $6 USD may be the cost of an expensive cup of coffee in the US, but $6 USD in much of the world is so expensive that it equates to an entire grocery trip. I felt so bad for the international fans who were expected to pay a substantial chunk of cash every month or shown the door.
Growing past your means or needs is a form of greed. They might not have done it with purely monetary goals but you don't have to be explicitly greedy to show greedy tendencies...
Great content creators, terrible businessmen. That is often the way.
Long time Watcher fan - when I saw they were going independent - I was happy to hear they felt successful enough to take their fans off CZcams as they've made a lot of changes over the years as they've grown - but I knew I couldn't possibly justify another subscription, especially given the UKs Cost of living crisis so was sad to think I would be seeing a lot less of them! But respect to them for navigating the backlash well and also to the people that reached out to express that this wasn't a sustainable change for them as fans. No harm, no foul. I think I'm always surprised how intense people can get on a keyboard! Really, I think it could have been a lot worse.
When I saw the Watcher thing popping off, my immediate reaction as a fan was 1) why not do youtube memberships, and 2) their audience of largely teens and younger adults is not going/can't afford to pay for a new streaming service. Like they have the demographic info of their audience to have known that this wasn't gonna pan out for them. Plus people are already getting weary of all the different streaming services out there
i think the reason why a lot of us watcher fans immediately reacted with disgust and seeing this as a greedy move is because the last two announcements before this was a new show where steven lim goes to different places and eat expensive food and them hiring new talent, reuniting the worth it cast with the intent to reboot worth it, which is also a show where steven lim and friends eat expensive food.
they've also hosted a show where steven lim makes expensive food before and it flopped relative to their other content, so why make these shows if they are financially struggling
a lot of the reaction was "why would we pay to watch steven lim eat gold" when what most of us love watcher for is the shows where it's just shane and ryan goofing off lol
I might be in the minority, but they absolutely don’t need Steven. The only videos I watch from their channel, Steven is never in them, and the views say a lot about it too
@@gigiarteaga7052 Did you not just see Shanes wifes comment in this video 2:55 say pretty much "Shut up brokies, yea we know we are brining in hundreds of thousands with merch, paterons and ads but we deserve more because we are content creators you plebs and we all drive teslas so its not livable". Yes, they do all drive teslas. Yes, shes on payroll. This was a united desicion.
They were all in on this decision, but I was astonished how quickly the mob turned on Steven specifically, as if Puppet History and European Ghost Tour weren't floated as reasons for the change.
@@viewbuster1979i think it's because that shane and ryan have always touted leftist rhetorics like "eat the rich" while steven's shows are literally eating like the rich so it seems the most in character for him. they all did make the decisions but steven's shows costing that much and doing that poorly makes him the clear target ig
I am a fan of Watcher, and was very sad about the changes when they were first announced. I think the whole situation just highlighted that they arent businessmen, they are first and foremost creatives, and made a devastating business decision. I liked the response video, it showed that they listened and made fast changes that addressed the criticism. I will definitely still be watching.
The fact that they even tried this, and then tried gaslighting us into thinking they weren't going to remove all their old content tho... leaves a bad taste even if their apology acknowledged their biggest mistakes.
@@Shaqiliciouss I totally get that. I might be too forgiving or naive but I truly think that due to the pretty dire financial situation, they were so focused on fixing the situation and staying afloat that they didn't think about the ethics or how it would come across.
@@Abjess what dire finical situation? didn't they just hire more people and start a new show? if they did that WHILE being in a dire finical situation then they were defiantly looking to their fans to fix the initial situation they created. even more of a slapin the face to their fans that already paid to support them.
When I was in high school I was on the newspaper. I LOVED Ludacris and he dropped a new album and I was allowed to review it. I didnt like it. I think I learned in that moment that I could be a fan AND still be critical of an artist's music. It didnt mean I liked them less and not every song was bad. How is that hard to understand for stans?
Too many people these days have lost so much empathy and are so willing to deal out judgment before knowing the full facts, and even then, they are often still judgmental instead of providing understanding and/ or constructive feedback for the situation being discussed.
They add to the pile-on with their assumptions and their, often wilful, ignorance instead of helping to remove some of that weight from others' judgemental comments and negativity.
Life, especially recently, is difficult for most everyone. Some more so than others, obviously.
But, also, everyone has their own personal 'mountain' to navigate, climb, and summit. Other peoples mountains do not take away from or diminish your experiences and fight to conquer your mountain.
Be someone who helps to reach those hights, not create further obstacles.
Stay safe out there, folks, and be good people ❤
Watchers situation was discussed on the DropOut subreddit and I think looking at how College Humor became DropOut is a Unicorn of a model for going successfully from solely CZcams to your own streaming platform, if Watcher can model after this I think it could be a successful change of direction.
I think part of the reason for dropout success, is the variety. It’s not just five shows and they stretched out from the original humor people. They’re doing game shows, DND, talk shows and so on.
@@geomeopeoleo1740Game Changer is so great because it’s fun to watch and they get to test out different game show formats.
Dropout is worth EVERY penny.
Basically if the watcher was planning on introducing a lot more content, then maybe it would have worked but they would have to dedicate time to bring more people into the brand and comfortable with different hosts.
I've been grandfathered into Dropout since it's debut and still pay 3ish bucks a month and its absolutely worth it. There's something for everyone and the years of cultivating a loyal fan base plus putting out full previews of shows helped it along tremendously. Not to mention the people rallying behind Sam Reich as he bacame the new CEO when their parent company when under. Not everyone will be a Dropout.
@geomeopeoleo1740 you could argue that creating this streaming site would allow them to create more variety and with more freedom. Its putting the cart before the horse but i can understand the thinking behind it
Never in my life would I have ever thought a fandom could top Kpop stans on the “worst fandoms” tier list, yet somehow Swifties managed to take the crown. It is downright _insane_ how crazy everyone’s going, whether over the release or over others expressing that they don’t care for a damn album.
Honestly stans are a huge scourge. They harm everyone, including fellow fans, the artists, and even themselves. They always end up killing their own fanbases by driving most of the fans out of it or ruining the reputation of the fanbase to the point that no one is willing to join because they don't want to be ostracised or looked down on by non-fans due to stan behaviour. It's so self-sabotaging.
Tbh Taylor’s music is quite forgettable like I personally can’t name a single song from her off of memory. Peoples obsession with her imo is all cause she’s 1 an attractive woman, 2 her well documented dramatized dating life… other than that she’s got about the same talent as most mediocre performers do..not to mention she loosely uses her platform for good, ide prefer she go all out rather just a few things but beggars can’t be choosers
i’m so glad someone said it lol
@@LeahBouley bad blood is the only song I can name and it's not because of her lmao.
Eh could be worse: could be the Voltron and Homestuck fandoms 🤷♀️
The Watcher story is crazy! I've been watching them from the very beginning, and never thought they would put up a pay wall without consulting or clueing in their audience.
The production value of their videos has only gone up as time goes on, and I understand the balance between putting money into a video vs the amount they get back is rough.
I'm SO glad that I'm still going to be able to watch their amazing content, as there's no way I would be able to pay for it.
My fiancée and I have watched Ryan and Shane since day one. We always adored the absurdity of the Ghoul Boys. This situation had us both concerned (that we might lose their excellent banter and fun material) and upset (that they pushed through a solution that felt a bit tone deaf given the cost of living crisis that we are all experiencing). We were going to pay for the subscription (though it was a discussion) and are glad that they have decided upon a far more equitable path forward. I understand why they were going to do this, especially given how fiercely loyal a fan base they have accumulated. I hope that the goodwill they had damaged over the weekend will recover, as they have always been quite a fun bit of stupid in a world that is getting more and more scary for a queer couple like us.
Long term Swiftie here - those extreme fans are absolutely insane and I hate so much that the fandom has devolved like this. It's never acceptable to threaten a critic or an ex or literally anyone over art, no matter how much the artist means to you or how much you think you know about the situation. It's sad and scary that people are afraid to say anything about Taylor that isn't complimentary, even just from a fan perspective because how is this not eventually going to stifle growth and the evolution of skills??
Welcome to the rest of us
But Taylor had to know writing a song with KIM letters in capitals would entice her fans to behave badly. , whether KIM deserves the hate doesn’t matter , and eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind and all that.
I really wish she would have skipped the capitals. Fans would have known anyway. But don't give the crazy ones more excuses
I do not condone threats or harassment ever. Period.
That said, I do not think Paste's article and the tweet about the no-byline was in good faith. The article is so weirdly baiting and personal attacking towards Swift and fans. It is obvious they were trying to incite a reaction rather than actually doing a review of the album. I hate that the crazy fans took the bait. Why even bother? The charts, sales, and genuine reviews from all other outlets will tell the true story of the album - its great qualities and its flaws included.
@@BrilliantDemise Out of curiosity (I didn't read the review) what did they say that was bad about the fanbase to bait them?
That’s one of the quickest turnarounds I’ve seen in a while. The backlash on social media was INTENSE - my whole feed was just disappointed WatcherTV fans. That’s what happens when you value profit over viewership. People jump ship. If it had been even as low as $1-2, people wouldn’t have been _as_ angry.
Honestly, this is the first I’d ever heard of them. Not a great first impression tbh.
if it was any amount of money people would have been just as mad. on youtube you upload content to an audience watches for free, those that appreciate it donate out or their own goodwill and appreciation. forcing payment, especially when not a network or something similar, will never be taken well. millions of videos on youtube are free, many of them being high quality
edit: just look at their patreon. 13,000 patrons or wahtever you call them. Even if you put all 13,000 at the lowest of the five patreon tiers, $5, that would still be 65000 a MONTH. and that is the minimum, if you count the other tiers, sponsorships, merch, and whatever else they are making much more. making money is good and necessary, but they got greedy by trying to be 100% monetized. they do upload high quality videos, but they should cut costs by being more efficient with their filming, finding locations, etc idk im not a creator
@@AP1millionThat’s why I said “not AS angry”. When you lock things behind a paywall of course you’ll get people upset, but it’s easier to give a dollar or two rather than 5-6. At least they relented to put out free content if you wait long enough.
@@localmenace3043 i didnt mean to be argumentitive toward you, i meant to air my thoughts and came out a little strong. however, i believe that the difference between the one dollar and 5-6 would not make much of a difference. the act of having to take out your card would be the factor that would make people angry not the difference of a few dollars, as you say there is not much difference in a few bucks. imagine if you are just scrolling through youtube and certain videos have price tags on them, only a dollar or two, I would ignore them completely as would probably 99% (made up percentage of course) of the people on youtube
it was maybe more the way they approached it - there was an announcement clock counting down a few days before, then a video titled 'goodbye, youtube' seemingly out of nowhere. it would have made SO MUCH more sense to have this streaming service as an *extra* to the content that already exists - BTS, extended cuts, exclusive series.
in stead they quite literally started sawing the branch they were sitting on
Streaming is expensive, they wouldn't be able to cover it with $1-2 /mo, they'd actually be losing money in such a setup... They grew more than their audience was willing to pony up, plain and simple.
The thing that blew my mind about Watcher was the absolute lack of care to the consumer. As someone who pays for a Nebula and Curiosity Streaming service I cannot even imagine paying 6.99 for a single CZcams Channel's content.
Like, this is nothing against them, but I won't pay Peacock even though the streaming service has my two favorite shows of all time on it because I'm tired of the streaming wars between the network, let alone one CZcams channel's content.
But I'm glad they reversed course.
That biking event looks amazing, we ought to start that nationwide, like a cool biking holiday or something
About the Taylor Swift thing: I'm fascinated by the social organism that is "fandoms." I've been part of some fandoms in the past that all go through the same lifecycle; They start out really benign and supportive, everyone coming together over a love of a shared interest. But then they inevitably turn toxic and spiteful. Why, when, and how that social metamorphosis happens is immensely interesting to me, because it seems to happen every time. Star Wars, Star Trek, My Little Pony. It's wild. I actually really want to see an @PhilosophyTube video take a deep dive into "Why Fandoms Turn Toxic." It's a real problem and I don't get it. Like Star Wars is a prime example. I'm a HUGE Star Wars fan. Have been since I was a young girl. But like...the existing fandom that feels so threatened by the new story directions with Star Wars? Why? Why does that threaten you so much? Why are you so ready to harass and send death threats to actors and producers over it?
Bottom line: It's okay to not like things.
And then you have the biggest plot twist ever, wherein the Harry Potter fandom never really devolved into that kind of toxicity (as far as I ever saw, anyway) but the creator herself turned out to be garbage. 😂
watching the cycle repeat is maddening
17:47 Hey Phil, thank you for filling my feed with watchable content today. I hope you're doing well, and I look forward to seeing the next video tomorrow. Much love and kind regards.
Long time viewer here and you are always apart of my morning wake up routine. Feels good to have you say good morning to us now. Thanks Phil!
Ryan and Shane are very likable folks and I'm super glad they have dealt with it like this, respect. Happy to give them a chance after years of entertainment they have given me.
Shanes wife saying the company's hundreds of thousands a month (at least 60k in ads and 80with patreon, not counting merch) isnt "livable" isnt likable at all. Thats shanes wife.
@@spoons250 So what? IDNGAF. They've apologised and course corrected in a way that is respectful to the fans, and I'm happy to give them the benefit of the doubt and a second chance.
@@spoons250 I think her point was more so that $60-80k isn't great for a company that has to pay 25 people. If it was just the three of them and maybe 5 others then it would be great but a company that has to pay a livable wage to 25 employees with only $80k a month is probably cutting it close. It was still a dumb decision, but I can see why they tried to do what they did.
It's my birthday tomorrow, I'm turning 39 and I really didn't realize how much I loved being called a beautiful bastard until I started your video a second ago. Thanks Phil, no sarcasm, I really needed that...
My birthday is tomorrow too! Happy birthday 🎉
Happy birthday to both!
Happy birthday you beautiful bastard
Happy birthday 🎉🎈🎂
Happy birthday 🎉
Thanks for the upload. In a rough spot right now and pds has really helped keeping me sane day to day just keeping that habit.
Taylor swift is caught in two echo chambers. On one hand she can’t do a single thing without getting backlash. But she also can’t produce any art with any kind of criticism, even if it’s from a fan. It’s an insane reality to create art in
I've been a long time Taylor Swift fan, I was part of the first 200,000 people who signed up for her website updates after her first album. I find myself really frustrated with the fandom, I've said this before and I'll say it again. She's a person. A talented person, but a human being. Her extreme fans don't listen. She asked them to be kind before speak now TV was released, and people still sent threats to John Mayer. She can't get them to stop throwing plastic bracelets at HER. It's awful, but I wish these people were held accountable legally. There is absolutely 0 reason to threaten people over art, and until there are real consequences, it'll continue to happen. It sucks and I hate it.
Right, I promise you nobody hates obnoxious Swifties more than other Swifties. And I feel like people misconstrue her fandom behavior with her behavior and use that as cannon fodder against her.
Taylor swift fans on Twitter are children.
One of the most horrific things about how these people are acting is it's incredibly hard to find the truly dangerous people when so many are acting this way.
she is also accountable because she doesn't actually do anything to condemn these types of fans
One of those fans are going to end up going after someone who they shouldnt and maybe end up a white chalk outline on the side walk.
"Liking or hating someone shouldn't be your whole fuckin' personality" I need that on a shirt, Phil
At this part, I was reminded that there are people out here with zero personality and even fewer brain cells. I can't imagine being so simple that if someone didn't like something I liked, I'd get mad at them.
The thing is, Phil that there's a few reasons why people saw this as greedy: they like to do expensive stuff, especially Steven. It involves travels on very expensive airlines, eating gold coated food, buying a Tesla or paying 50 k their wedding. They were struggling to pay their staff and they incorporated 3 more people. Now when they said that they were doing this platform because of money problems and people responded "bro... you eat gold on videos... what?", and they mentioned that it wasn't cool that their bad financial management had to be carried by fans and followers one of their wives responded something in the lines of "if you're too poor to pay 6 bucks is not our fault". So the overall picture didn't look too good for them, which is why this was seen as greedy and disgusting.
This is why I respect you so much as a commentator... While so many others looooved to be able to jump in to the drama without even getting it just to monetize from other's misfortunes.... You stay neutral and level headed. I really appreciate your content 👍🏻
I am not a Taylor Swift fan, said this once on Twitter and I never received such aggressive negative responses. Not sure why people get so angry, we all can like different things, it's fine..
the taylor swift thing reminds me a lot of recent aussie drama with a magpie and dog. a group of about 10 wildlife carers reported the people who had the bird to the authorities and the bird was removed from them (it's a native australian bird they took as a chick and it's a protected species you cannot keep as a pet). the carer's that were discovered have had to shut all their social media pages down (these are just wildlife rehabilitation volunteers in australia) because of the death threats they were receiving from fans of the bird's social media pages. even people commenting on stories online who were in favour of the bird being taken from them were accused of being one of the people that turned them in were basically hunted down and crucified by 'fans'
So bloody sick of that stupid magpie story
I saw a similar story about a guy and a squirrel, the local police is refusing to give the guy information on his former pet squirrel because they know the wildlife sanctuary will get threats
I am a Watcher watcher. I've watched (most of) their stuff for years. I've spent hundreds on their merch (their stuff is high quality, but so expensive. ~$100 AUD for a hoodie). But there is no way I can justify spending that much on a subscription service for only their content. They don't release enough content for it to be worth it, honestly. Perhaps they were planning on ramping up production, but how many videos could they realistically release per month? With only 25 staff, they'd be run ragged to create a TV quality show at a rate that makes it worth the price. Any way I look at it, it just isn't worth it.
I'm glad they listened and made changes, but I wonder about their sustainability in the long run if they legitimately are struggling even with hundreds of thousands of views per video, sponsors on every video, merch sales, and their patreon.
From Japan, I just wanna say I appreciate you acknowledging "Tuesday morning" me in the intro. ^^
Big bands and artists definitely need to call out their psycho fans and tell them that all the cultish behavior and death threats, and harassment on anyone critical of the artist needs to stop. Artists definitely aren't responsible for what their fans do but they should at least try and discourage it and speak out against the bad actors of their fanbase
Taylor Swift HAS done this, though. Multiple times she’s asked her fans to back off or be respectful of others (and herself!) but the truly problematic fans just don’t care and don’t listen. Which is bonkers to me, because you would think that if they worship her enough to *actively harass* people who DON’T, they would respect such a simple request, but noooo…
In 1984 I went to a Dead Kennedys show. Early on the lead singer called out to the audience "Did you come here to fight? DID YOU COME HERE TO KICK ASS? If you did, GET THE FUCK OUT, YOU MISSED THE POINT!!!" They then launched into "Nazi Punks F*ck Off."
That is one way to call out misguided fans. I'm certain there are other ways, too.
I'm a Watcher fan, but recently, my family has fallen on pretty hard times, it's a tough economy to keep afloat in, and I was prepared to cut loose from them even tho I've been following them since the early days of Unsolved. I wasn't the sort who was calling them greedy monsters, I was just like, "well, good luck but I can't afford it and I'm choosing necessities 🤷♀️"
I'm glad they found a balance, and that they listened to fans. I do feel the scandal could have probably been avoided, but at least they apologized and reworked things.
Right? I had to do some finaincal dancing but the discount code and a last minute gig I was able to grab a year. Aa a fellow creative I love supporting folks I like, wether it's paying them, buying merch when I can afford it, or just following and sharing with folks I know would like their stuff. I would have been bummed if my stars hadn't aligned for me to afford to offer support them and their team, but they did this time, so yay.
As a Scottish person who has always watched you before work in the morning, I’m loving the newfound appreciation in the greetings. I’m just sitting here like “Oh hey it IS Tuesday morning 🥹”
My Intercultural Communications professor let us hear what Speaker Johnson had to say today. And he said, "I hate that man, but what he's saying is something I can get behind. Because you need to separate the person from the idea." Truer words have never been spoken
I have no thoughts on what the internet is outraged about today. I often wonder how these people who get outraged have the energy.
Also notable on the Watcher situation: according to the Variety article on it they were originally going to remove all the previous content from CZcams, and they used a countdown to hype up what ended up being this announcement in which a man that apparently owns a Tesla and has eaten gold leaf and $1000 caviar on camera says that everyone can afford the subscription fee, when clearly a large portion of their audience (especially many international fans, if they can even acces the service because apparently some or even all can’t) can’t afford that. I won’t get into if any of the responses were or were not called for, but that last part is like one of the best ways to piss people off. And many (vocal) fans either don’t want or don’t think that they want better more expensive production, and then feeling like you are being told to buy something you don’t want plays into that anger response from the “affordable to everyone” and THAT is how you end up on this show
My wife has been a big fan of Ryan and Shane since they were on Buzzfeed, and it’s been a rollercoaster for her 😂
Buzzfeed shutting down and uncertainty of their future, then starting Watcher. She literally said to me the day before they posted their “Goodbye CZcams” vid, that it’s her favourite channel, and shes working her way from the oldest content she missed to the newer stuff.
I saw the comments on the video blowing up, and for her sake I was hoping they would backtrack, given the loss of subscribers and negativity towards the announcement. I wasn’t expecting a response from them so quickly! Although my wife says it’s definitely left a sour taste in her mouth over the whole way they handled it.
10:49 WAIT THAT IMAGE IS
INVINCIBLE
Dont tell me we are going to need to wait even LONGER for episodes
Watcher is probably my favorite CZcams channel. I've been out of town since Thursday and missed all of this news. What a rollercoaster this was coming back. They should stick to CZcams exclusively but make their videos 1 month early for members. Having their own site seems silly.
I love that you say Monday evening/Tuesday morning (for example). I'm in Australia, and it makes me feel a lil bit more like a part of the fam when you say gm to us!
I listen on my way to work in the mornings, and it always makes me feel like he's watching me when he mentions good morning 😂 I get torn between "aw he knows not all of us have the same time/don't watch when they first air" and "...can he see what times people are watching most? Is he following us? " 😂 Well, that's a bit dramatic, but my early morning brain can't be told otherwise.
A very similar thing to the 'Watcher' debacle happend to Armchair Historian a few months ago. He announced he was going behind a paywall and his audience didn't exactly react the way he had hoped.
Can’t agree more that sometimes the things you say, what you mean, and what you hear can be completely different.
I used to work in an amusement park, and this one time a slightly scared lady asked if I would ride with her. Me, an over worked, over heated 18yo said “if you and I both get on this ride, it ain’t coming down” as in we’d break the ride. She took it as something sexual, yelled it out to her friends, and for about an hour the crew hung out by my ride making kissy sounds and calling at me. It was so awkward and embarrassing.
Coming from a longtime fan of the watcher crew (even in the buzzfeed days) as soon as I saw the drama go down over the weekend, my first thought was ‘I can’t wait to see this on pds this week’
I worked with people in china in one of the roles you described in your story about NK. I have both been a worker working with them, and someone who hired and worked with the executives. Unless the Chinese or South Korean company is intentionally hiding who is doing the work, these companies knew who was working on it. This kind of work requires regular meetings with the people doing the work. Things straight up do not work otherwise. Visiting their office and key employees doing the work visiting our offices was something that was discussed before hiring them, and did happen after the fact.
I don’t doubt that most of the people involved had no idea North Korean’s were working on their project, but someone at the company did.
I think it's sad that the bar for doing the right thing is so low but I think it's also important to give credit where credit is due. House speaker Mike Johnson had a portion of his party giving him very heavy handed push back and made it very difficult to act without threat of retaliation and he got it done. Late and I'm sure with concessions that are damaging to our country no doubt but he got it done.
Hey! I have a piece to consider with the new pay plan stuff. Alot of brands are pulling the ads in favor of individual influencers from insta, snapchat, tiktok, etc. I think it may change with the uncertainty of Tiktok, but that probably plays a big role too.
As a long time Watcher fan, I was excited about the news and subscribed, splitting the cost with a friend and I won't be cancelling it- happier to give $ to them than to CZcams. I thought that they want to be like Dropout and get a lot of the old Buzzfeed gang back together in a healthy place where the creators control the content, but that they don't want to make promises.
That said, they have made other mistakes recently with their live Ghost Files tour. People expected Ryan & Shane to be on stage giving commentary throughout the episode, but they only came on afterwards for maybe half the performance. So I see where people may have resentment already built up before the announcement.
The fact that they listened and adjusted the plan tells me as a fan that they are standing by the values that they claim and that they are a business I want to support.
As a long time watcher fan and someone who watched all three of them at buzzfeed, I have always appreciated the love and attention they give not just their shows but their fans. IMO the roll out of the announcement was just shocking and no one saw it coming. They had a timer up for when a Big Special Announcement would be dropped. Their twitter had the kind of hype you expect from a new show, and as someone in the watcher groups on most social media, thats what everyone else thought too. We were completely blindsided and then insulted with one swift video. Even MattPat had the self awareness to make sure his departure had plenty of warning and that wasn't even the channels leaving CZcams, it was just him.
I was frustrated, even though I am in a position to be able to afford the streamer. I was on the fence about it all weekend, constantly going to sign up but then not following through because the whole situation made me sick to my stomach. Not just their announcement, but the fans' reaction. Reddit was the worst, the things said about Steven were awful, regardless of how out of touch he is/came off. Even amidst all of the turmoil I wanted them to succeed, I was praying the risk would be worth the reward. Their compromise of simply having a delayed upload to CZcams was exactly the right choice, and over the weekend many people (myself included) were confused as to why they didn't do that originally. I still want them to succeed. I WANT them to pursue their creative endeavors. I WANT them to pay their employee's livable wages. I WANT them to be secure as a company. But when your demographic is mostly college students and fresh-out-of-college young adults, its a bit of a ridiculous to ask them to drop $6 a month.
I can confirm on the obsessive fandom of Taylor Swift. I was talking to someone from Canada via discord a couple of years back and the second I told her that I wasn't a Swift fan she just exploded and then stopped talking to me. Later I started getting threats on discord on how the will find me and will make me regret saying I did not like Taylor Swift, with some trying to get info from my friends such as my picture, where I work, etc.
Over the past week or so I've felt so seen with your new intro of "____day evening, ____day morning" as I've always watched the show the morning after it gets uploaded. Thanks, Phil!
On another note, I've never been so offended by one of your thumbnails as I am with this one of you wearing those horrendous glasses. But I'm also confused because you aren't wearing them in the video. Thank goodness for that. 😂
I'm looking at the whole Watcher thing (never having heard of them either) and all I can think of is... why aren't they going to Nebula? Many other creators have gone to that streaming service built by CZcamsrs for CZcamsrs.
It's so strange to try and do a second Nebula (or Dropout as you mentioned)... but only for THEIR content. The reason Nebula took off was because it had dozens upon dozens of YT creators on there, not just one trio of creators. I can't imagine this working out the way they think it's going to work out.
There is no "Unknowingly" outsourced to N. Korea. The animation industry, as a whole, has been doing this for years to Korea in general and never really asked which one.
Thank you for the fair coverage on Watcher. I am a big fan and while I was upset by their move last Friday, I am very happy with the apology video. I think they are good people who made a major mis-step, but I will happily subscribe to support their content financially. Love those dudes.
I'm glad they backtracked, but don't forget they also tried gaslighting us into believing they weren't going to remove their old content on CZcams. I'll resubscribe for future videos, but I sure as hell canceled my patreon subscription. This whole thing left a very sour taste.
phil saying “doing tricks on it” has me dying 💀🤣
When it comes to appreciating any artist’s work…loyalty makes you a fan, blind loyalty makes you a pawn.
I don't understand Universal and it's marketing team... months ago they bombarded me with the teaser to Abigail, and i was interested "why is this team trying to protect and afraid of this girl?" and I was eager to see it in the theater... now, they bombarded me with a trailer fully explaining "CAUSE SHE'S A MONSTEEEER" and now i don't think i'll watch the movie in theaters
I hadn't seen the trailer, and I just want you to know that you've spoiled that for me. You've done the things you wished hadn't been done to you. Please edit this to take that out, so you don't do it for too many more folks. You can just say that the trailer ruined it for you without saying what it was.
@@GhostWriter520The tagline of the movie poster is literally "Children can be such monsters". And she's wearing a white dress soaked in blood. Unless you flip a coin to pick your movie and don't even look at the poster on the wall when you walk by it, it isn't a spoiler.
@@OromisGlaedrTHIS
@@GhostWriter520 Then definitely don't listen to any Planter Radio station until you've seen the movie (Planet Rock, Absolute 80s, Kerrang ect). They put the plot twist loud and proud in every advert. "She's a xxxxxxxx!"
Hard agree, I saw a trailer for it a couple months ago that dropped the spoiler part way through and it inspired me to not be interested in seeing it. Movies can have more than one spoiler but when you drop a major one for characters’ POV it can ruin a lot more than just basic plot points. Imagine how cool it would have been to go in empathizing with the wrong group at the beginning of the movie before finding out who the monster is.
For the watcher story, it would be interesting to hear what's the split Nebula offered them, for them to consider creating a whole complete different revenue stream as a valid option.
Nebula is run on a mission statement of everyone basically being a collective, with every creator being a partial owner with a stake in the company and getting a percentage of the company's revenue measured by how much audience they bring in. The idea is that everyone who's a part of it sails or sinks the ship together. Based on what we've seen from Watcher, they want to be independent and do everything themselves, steering their own ship without worrying about anyone but themselves and their fanbase. That doesn't mesh well with the Nebula concept.
@@jijittersthank you for explaining because I had the exact same question.
LOVING the shout-outs for Dropout! They’re what I was thinking about the whole time this was going down, just because they’re the platonic ideal of a subscription for me. I get excited for almost every show they put out- the amount I pay and the time I spend on the platform is worth it. If you’re looking for stuff to watch on there, the newest episodes of Game Changer are GOLD
9:31 Swifties, you need to calm down! As a huge fan of Taylor (a Swiftie), I hate this so much. Taylor isn’t for everyone and she shouldn’t have to be. Other Swifties are out there being fucking embarrassing and horrible. Please for the love of god, stop making us look bad! I completely agree, a good artist should receive critique. It doesn’t make them bad or a failure.
The lack of media literacy concerns me especially when we’re talking about Art and its perception. Thank you Phil for touching upon it and while I am no Taylor fan, I do agree everyone has a right to critic a piece of art as long as it’s within reason and respect. We lose the essence of interpretation when we aren’t open enough to view it from different angles.
I was only a little aware of Watcher from the Buzzfeed days and hadn't kept up, but I just had a laugh about how differently their couch announcement landed from The Try Guys one.
On the Watcher situation, Corridor Digital did something similar but it worked very well for them. Regular fans still get content, die hards get extended videos and old school style vlogs.
Phil,
On the Taylor Swift story, I just wanted to mention that I spent my last class writing essays and putting together a presentation about the phenomenon of celebrity worship, and it’s honestly a super interesting thing-terrifying, but interesting. There’s not a lot of academic research on it currently that I could find (being as modern of a phenomenon as it is, and given the timeline that some academic research needs to be peer-reviewed and published), but there was a good cover-all article by Cynthia Vinney (I believe that was her name) and David Susman on celebrity worship and the scale professionals can use to determine basically how “worshippy” of a fan you are-those who score higher than level one usually have more neurotic and psychotic traits (go figure), which if severe enough can lead to (1) paying too much attention to negative stimuli in the environment (which would explain the obsession surrounding negative criticism for the Swifties in that story) and (2) a complete lack of empathy for the feelings and/or safety of others (as exemplified w/ the death threats). As someone who’s working toward a degree in psychology with a focus on parasocial relationships, these kinds of stories are always super interesting to me; but they’re also always a little creepy bc you realize how many people have just enough of a psychological trait variation to be considered “off the wall”. Anyways - I want to explicitly state that I am NOT a professional (just a broke college kid forced to pick an interesting topic and write hella essays about it), but I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents because I figured it would do some good!! Thanks for covering such a wide array of news, and being sure to cover a little something for everyone!
I mean Dropout, formerly College Humor, did the same thing a while ago. It’s 7 bucks a month too. They’ve done REALLY well for themselves. I pay for Dropout and honestly there’s SO MUCH content that it’s well worth it to me. Especially with the quality of them. Can’t get enough of those Dimension 20 campaigns lol
Edit: that’s what I get for typing as Phil is talking. He mentioned everything I did lol 100% agree
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I pay for Dropout to watch Burrow's End, and am now gleefully waiting for every new episode of every show to drop. It's worth it, ten times over, especially the weekly anxiety I get for the new episode of Fantasy High.
Also, very nice to hear Phil become One Of Us. I also am genuinely curious what drew him in - I know he's aware of Dimension 20, since he mentioned them with the whole Ticket Master incident.
Bruh😂 this is ai
@@nickgrawitch5204 today I learned I write like ai 😂😂😂
my family just got dropout within the last month and it has low key become my whole personality. Um Actually? 100%. Game Changer? gotta love it. Make Some Noise? how else am i gonna practice improv to fuel my unrealistic dreams of joining dropout one day?! Dimension 20? best believe im binging it all so hard it’s not even funny.
anyway that was my small rant i love dropout so much and i feel ok with some of my money going to this obviously anticapitalist organization that is forced to play by capitalisms rules.
also im so glad to hear that Phil also supports its like the crossover of the century in my mind
@@Supaawesomeification I think some people sometimes don't believe positive messages about paying for stuff. Mix that with your proper punctuation and well-structured sentences, and it'll kind of seem like an AI wrote it 😅
What a shock. Tone deaf moves gets immediately walked back.
And I'm not part of the "oh, they realized the messed up" crowd. The only thing they realized is that people aren't going to put up with their crap. They can wilt, as far as I care. Steven can take his Tesla and his gold-flaked food and cry.
Phil I love dropout. So so much. Please give each show a chance!! It’s so wonderful