They left buzzfeed and then made all the financial mistakes buzzfeed made. You don't HAVE to build elaborate sets, you don't HAVE to hire all your friends, you don't HAVE to constantly travel. There are bigger channels than them that are literally just a dude in a chair.
But if they wanted to do that, they wouldn’t have started at Buzzfeed. It’s the same thing with the Try Guys imo, where they don’t just want to be content creators, and they don’t want to just be youtubers. They want to be media hosts/personalities and producers at their own independent production company, and youtube is just an easy way to build a fan base and get money from it. They all liked Buzzfeed, minus the lack of ownership over your work and quota system. But the Try Guys and Buzzfeed Unsolved were two of the biggest shows they ever made, so they definitely had better treatment than other staff members there. The only good transition (that I’ve seen) from Buzzfeed content into being a normal CZcamsr is Safiya Nygaard, who has been pretty good at staying relevant by making fun content that often stays within a niche. She doesn’t let the jokes run old/stale, and she doesn’t make a parody out of herself. It’s a great incorporation of her real life with content, and she’s always been pretty entertaining. Her videos are also high quality while still feeling like she’s a creator, not just the host or the star personality of the video. Those kinds of things are what rub me the wrong way about Watcher and Try Guys
people LOVED the low quality shit. small office, old ass decorations, and blue and yellow text on a black screen? 10/10. it was so good cause their personalities not the quality (watcher had some bangers too ngl but they kinda ventured pretty far from the content i liked)
Ikr?? I stuck with Watcher for maybe a year or two when they first started, but I lost interest in Puppet History when they killed off the professor (I think it came back but I just didn't care by that point), and I was growing out of the ghost hunting/true crime videos before they even left BUN. They never put out anything else that really grabbed me-- going through their channel now it just looks like a 2015 Buzzfeed reskin. That kind of content was fun when I was 17-18, but now I'm 26 and it's not for me lol.
Nothing compares to buzzfeed unsolved, especially pre covid buzzfeed unsolved. That period of unsolved was pure gold. So good. So entertaining. Two dudes talking, black screen. Just amazing
This! Why do they need sets, videographers, etc? You can also get amazing quality on smartphones now. Spending all this money just to make the videos is ridiculous.
I bet $6 a lot of pointing who's fault this shit happened in their office Also gonna wagger that this definitely made their relationship with each other on thin ice
the thing that has bugged me the most during this whole situation is shane's wife's tumblr post. she said something about how it's hard to pay people fairly and also make a survivable wage. girl... your wedding venue alone cost $50k and you wore THREE DIFFERENT wedding dresses. last week you posted about a $100 TOTE BAG you bought. don't pretend you're struggling or barely making a "survivable wage" edit: I'm not saying she can't spend her money how she wants to. I just think it's annoying when rich ppl act like they are struggling financially
Not to mention his wife doesn't work none of that money was her own it was watcher money she just wants people to keep paying for her expensive tastes while she gets to sit home and do half assed art
Other channels already do this shit. You guys are just throwing a hissy fit because your relatable CZcams want to get paid for it lol. They're stupid doe announcing it
@@nuyynuyy they ARE getting paid though patreon, merch, live show tickets with ad cents and sponsors it's not a making money issue it's a irresponsible spending issue
With this method they aren't as exposed to risk when their videos get demonetized. They talk about murder and sex and rape all the time, thankfully without bleeping or annoyingly muting them out, other channels won't even say those words for fear of getting demonetized. If you're only posting one or two big videos per week it takes a huge chunk of the revenue if it gets flagged.
@@Maplebear1203 patreon has a tax, merch is barely sold, they don't have many live shows, sponsors hardly reaches out to them and sometimes sponsors doesn't give money but rather benefits.
Cause everyone is so numb to the fact that most people just ignore the criticism, double-down, attack the people critiquing, or just blatantly keep doing what they're doing that when someone actually realizes of their mistake, people think it's a needle in a haystack. Why? All we see if just the worst of the worst, so we just expect someone to be a scumbag.
Ikr?? That's when I watched them the most! I mean of course they had production value still, using stock images in a clever way, really good video editing etc., but they don't need an insanely high budget.
I'm betting that the format didn't bring in new viewers enough or it got played out. Sure we have a nostalgia bias, but no matter how great the original style is, the appetites of the viewers, especially considering there are always new young kids coming onto youtube, there almost certainly has to be a refreshing element. Only in very very rare cases can one stay true to the same exact format and maintain for more than a couple years. But who knows. Hard to deconstruct and be sure
@Robisquick im sure that flashier/higher production value videos made it easier to attract newer & younger viewers. if they never changed i know that i personally never would have complained
@@Robisquickactually they left because Unsolved was not allowing them to provide their own input into any of the videos and was making it harder and harder for them. They talked about it before. I do miss the text on the video but they might not be able to do that because it could be property of Unsolved.
You touched on what the community suspects is going on: mismanagement behind the scenes. Specifically, the impression we get is that they've hired too many people, and have wildly inflated production budgets. As an example: they've got a lets-play series called Survival Mode. How many people do you think need to be involved in making a lets-play series? There's two people on screen, plus an editor, plus to be generous maybe someone to handle the lights, cameras, and microphones. Four people tops, right? For their latest Survival Mode episode, on top of the 2 people on screen/playing the games, they had a director, producer, tech director, editor, post-production supervisor, production coordinator, gaffer, camera operator, sound mixer, PA, DIT, and assistant editor. That's 14 people working on one episode of a lets-play. (There were more people credited, but I'm limiting this to people who presumably had hands on producing *that episode*, unlike for example the logo designer, executive producers, head of development, and head of production.) Thanks to u/Shitfaced-Crusader on reddit who raised this to the greater community's attention
PLEASE tell me it's at least the best let's play ever with dynamic lighting effects and multiple cameras and amazing editing that doesn't rely on the game itself. Because otherwise wtf is a director going to do? The game is the director. And I just went to look at it and it's the most basic shit ever...
@@ferinzz ur gonna hate this but the game is the main part along with shane and ryan joking about, theres some lighting changes throughout and some light editing here and there but literally no use for that many ppl 😭
Thats insane. To put it in perspective...when Gametheory does their GTNotLive vids, aka their let's plays...they have a team of four: Matt on the couch as the host, Ash as cameraperson, audio tech, and co-host, an Editor in post-production, and I believe one additional audio/video tech person. GT is also a huge channel like Watchers, so the fact that Watchers is using a team of 14 people for a lets play vid whereas Game Theory, a channel of similar size, does it with a team of four is insane mismanagement on Watchers' part.
I've seen higher production quality LPs done by just a single person and they were full LPs on top of that instead of just mostly one offs that Watcher was doing
it's insane to me that andrew and adam even agreed to join this whole mess... it makes me feel like steven/ryan/shane were so unaware about their audience's perception of them, they appeared confident enough for others to accept whatever offer they'd make i just can't wrap my mind around the fact that there were so many important figures in a room and everyone just agreed with the leaving youtube idea, like, no one said a thing??? specially andrew. dude always seemed to be so down to earth and idk? wise? lmfao it's just weird
“We need to pay our employees a fair wage.” *LIVES IN CALIFORNIA MAKING CONTENT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CALIFORNIA* Guys, just move your business somewhere more cost effective … your 1mil salaries would go much further literally 100miles east.
You’re right about their ads. Their fan base has actually complimented them on their sponsored bits several times and said they watch them willingly because of how fun they are. I can’t believe they would find it hard to get sponsors at all.
The ads on the last Mystery Files season maybe even got more compliments than the actual content, I saw loads of people getting really invested in them.
I love Professor Morris Ashley and his story. I want to see if he can find love after his time with his beautiful, estranged, Italian wife, Bianca Sophia.
The way I look at it is that they want full control on whether or not the videos will be monetized or not. CZcams can at any time say "were changing the rules to monetization" and they wont have a say about the matter. Not to say their solution to this risk makes good sense for the audience.
there are a few content creators who's ads are either too funny to skip or blend in pretty well to the skit they are doing. Ryan George's can be funny sometimes and Zach Star blends his with his skits.
its not so much the channel... they are living extravagant lives so they keep paying themselves a "liveable wage" you know one that enough to to host as couple 100k wedding
@@sarahm.8013for their apology video alone, they credit like 2 directors of photography, a creative director, multiple editors, a production coordinator,... . That's not "i hire some friends&family". That is thinking they are a tv channel!
When they were describing Ghost Files costs thats when it clicked for me. I watched their supernatural on buzzfeed and was really enjoying it, but with watcher it didn't hit the same... thats probably because on buzzfeed they went in maybe couple of people and a few small cameras on tripod. You can tell ryan was actually scared there. I bet its less scary when you go into an abandoned building with crew of 15 people and lots of equipment. Didn't feel genuine for me anymore
I think part of that is also that at the start of buzzfeed, he was a random dude who had no real experience with going into these haunted places. Exposure therapy is a real thing, overtime the more people are exposed to/experience their fears the less they're scared of them. He went from having no experience to being a bona-fide ghost hunter. Of course he's not as scared, he's been in dozens of haunted places by now.
@@oliviap.1370 yes, I agree, this also plays a big role in this. It's not realistic for everyone to continue with every episode like its their first. That's why it just doesn't hit the same
I do fully believe that they are mismanaging their money and don’t know how to budget properly. None of these 3 guys know anything about running a business. Shane and Ryan fully backed out of their executive roles in the company to make Steven the sole CEO. And Steven, frankly, is the one whose content specifically revolved around buying, eating, and/or making very expensive food. From my perspective, he doesn’t have the best grasp on sound financial decision making. Honestly Charlie, you should get in contact with them and see what the hell is going on over at watcher hq 💀
yeah, like worth it was fine cause it was all off buzzfeed money but i don’t think he fully realizes that this isn’t buzzfeed anymore and the people aren’t gonna be happy with him eating gold and truffles in his tesla off viewers money 💀💀
lol, I've watched Shane and Ryan's content and if Steven has been involved in their content.. cool. But I have never watched anything Steven has produced. It just doesn't interest me.
Honestly he could write off all that expensive food as a tax write off in the United States if it was in a monetized video. So if he’s smart enough to do that at least he’s getting a fat return every year which is even worse
I think they shot themselves in the foot pretty badly here. One of the things that separated Watcher from other CZcamsrs or entertainment ventures was their extremely loyal and active fanbase. If the situation was that they needed money right now or the channel would shut down, they genuinely could've just asked the fanbase point blank and the fans would've been there. Now, no matter how loyal the fans were originally, there's always gonna be a bad taste left in your mouth when you think of the company.
That is exactly how I feel! Like I don’t watch every video but even id try and chip in if they just flat out asked and I own multiple pieces of merch too. But like even with this apology being good I just can’t look at them the same
can’t believe they said they would have to end the channel if they didn’t do this??? there were A LOT of other options, cut your own salaries, fire some of your staff if necessary. their audience already throws TONS of money at them, they said it themselves, live shows merch patreon etc., it’s not the audience’s responsibility to pay your 25 employees. could’ve just made some necessary cut backs but instead greed took over and permanently damaged their brand. sad really.
I agree fully there but just want to point out something. Customers going into a restaurant to eat are expected to pay waiters in America by way of tips. A waiter/servers salary from their employers is that small and pitiful that customers are expected to give the servers a tip. Isn’t what watcher asking of it’s fan base the same as what is expected of customers in a restaurant? My thought to your comment of it’s not the audience’s responsibility to pay their staff, it’s not a customers responsibility to pay a waiters wage either. It’s the employers,
@@Lozza685 i agree with you but unfortunately employers refuse to pay their servers a living wage, that’s the way it’s been for a long time i don’t see it changing any time soon
@@Lozza685what they’re doing is closer to having a meal served by a person that’s only slightly underpaid bc of seniority/popularity, getting ample tips(patreon) and now adding an automatic tip onto your check on top of it all. i have no problem tipping but we patrons shouldn’t have to pay for more than just our meal to ensure their server made enough money to buy their own. and on top of that when a person just adds a tip for me to give them that leaves a very bitter taste. Watcher is now expecting and demanding viewers to pay for ANY of their new content, which is so much more entitled than just having a patreon where supporters CHOOSE to further support you and often get a special thank you video.
One of the comments on their video stood out to me: “It was funny when you ate gold leaf ice cream on Buzzfeed’s dime, but it’s less funny when it’s our money” They wanted more money, plain and simple. These buzzfeed alumni are used to a cushier lifestyle, but someone else was supplying the money back then. Now they’re treating their fans like their former employer; an infinite cash cow.
Fire everyone except Shane, Ryan and ONE cameraman. Go back to ghost hunting and storytelling (in a small studio). I will be sending them a bill for financial advice. 😂
To be fair it's been 5 years since they left buzzfeed so i doubt that they are still used to a cushier lifestyle at this point, this argument would've made sense if it was only a year after they left, but after 5 years i don't think it holds much water. Though was still a very surprising and very bad move from them, never would have thought that about them
The comment section on Watcher's announcement was majestic. It turns out you either die an independent youtube channel or live long enough to see yourself become Buzzfeed again.
This reminds me of when the fine bros tried to trademark the word “react.” It showed that they were completely out of touch with their audience and now it’s how people remember them. I doubt people will just forget this.
saw a comment under the apology vid that said if they’re struggling this much to produce videos even with patreon, sponsors, merch, live shows, and everything else so much so that they felt like they needed to launch this separate subscription service in the first place, it’s not a matter of making more money, it’s a matter of spending less. this hits the nail on the head for me, so many ppl are saying they’re just there for the chemistry between shane and ryan and don’t care about production quality, and it seems like watcher either doesn’t know or doesn’t care about this and both their finances and their intentions with their content seem to be horribly misguided, like they don’t know what their audience is even there to see in the first place
Your comment brings up a good point. If they’re struggling, they should ask for help in a more humane and compassionate way. Not push away the majority of their viewers by putting up a literal pay-WALL.
Agree completely. If they need help financially they could come up with a new show and ask for crowd funding. The fan base would put money on anything as long as they get something out of it for not much… like buzzfeed unsolved was peak for me and although they were being funded it was cheaper than what they are doing now.
Democrats and progressives generally don't run successful businesses, the ones that do are lying and are conservatives 😂 so just like vice and buzzfeed these guys will fail no matter how much support they have or how many views they get . Democrats can mess up a wet dream . Shame the content is good , they just need a conservative to run the business .
The thing with the $6, is that it legitimately ISN'T that much, that's 1 cup of coffee a month. But the problem is that there is already 500 other services who are begging for $5-10 a month, INCLUDING THEM WITH THEIR PATREON. If they were one of 4 services in the world asking for a $6 sub, that would be one thing, but since it's one of so many (and again, they already had a different subscription that they asked people to partake in) that left such the bad taste.
and they completely forgot about conversion for outside rhe us. a fan from the Philippines on the goodbye video said $6 usd is more than a day and a half of normal wages there
If they at least made a deal or shared service with like 3-4 other channels it could've made sense, but did they really expect to earn big bucks from this? Would't it be better to make the prices on patreon higher or smt? Or even ask for direct donations? Or sell each episode for like $1?
@@ramseyzev5179So, so, so true! My husband earned 400€ a month (conversion rates between Euro and Dollar are not that crazy) which could provide for a family of 4! Imagine more than 10% of your wage go to that! When you can feed so many people on your wage.
I work on independent films that can get really high production value with just a small fraction of the budget watcher has. I call total BS on their excuse that they need more money in order to provide that quality. What I’m seeing is a huge mismanagement of funds and resources. They need to cut back on the ridiculous amount of money they’re spending before they start asking for more.
I think they need to hire a CEO with legitimate experience. This has been a disaster and 100% could've been avoided with more oversight and business acumen.
Apparently up until recently they were doing fine with Steven as the head, especially at the start. They did videos around the process of making their company. But I suppose reviving his old content of traveling and eating expensive stuff threw a wrench in the machine.
"really odd mismanagement" It's this one. Everything I've glimpsed from their behind the scenes makes it seem like they have no idea how to manage their money as a business and they aren't hiring anyone to do that. Ghost Files should not be taking six figures an episode to produce.
@@blademasterzero If they are paying a living wage to a few people to work on it then that seems reasonable. If they are wasting 90% of it on extra shit then yea thats dumb.
@@davidlazerz8564yeah the problem is it's not "a few" people that work on it but they have So Many employees (which can be seen listed in credit under videos), they really don't need that many at all or to spend so much on production/equipment
@@davidlazerz8564 a livable wage according to data and news articles for LA is 110k, which is insane. They said they have 25 ppl hired. At 110k that’s 2.75MM a year. Even if you drop the salary to 80k that’s 2MM a year. 25 employees on salary for a CZcams channel that produces 4-6 videos a month in ridiculous. That isn’t a few people. They are bloated and more than likely paying significantly more than similar roles at other companies. Their operating expenses are too high before you get into the rest of the balance sheet. They don’t know how to run a business. They need to drastically increase their revenue (which probably was the result of their original announcement) to keep their current staff, less people at current salary levels or cheaper labor. That should be the first step before they optimize their whole production to reduce costs.
2 things people: 1. Don’t spend more than you earn. 2. Don’t think you’re bigger than CZcams - there’s thousands of stories out there… but millions of others who can tell them.
Right. If you can’t make the content because you can’t afford it, don’t make it. Their fans would rather see them make something of lower production value than feel abandoned or forced to pay them a subscription for their content
Surely no one believes they’re genuinely sorry because they messed up? They’re apologising because they’ve realised they’re gonna lose subs and money from it.
@@aidanwiehl2397 it took to long and was to calculated for it to feel like anything more than "sorry we tried to blatantly demand more money we'll try to be less obvious next time"
@@aidanwiehl2397A bunch of millionaires begging for money in the most obviously manipulative tone possible. These people are extremely calculated but act like their greed was a mistake. The business is making easily a million dollars yearly, and they cry about expensive in the thousands.
"Shane, you have stepped in it this time, you are ON YOUR OWN." "You can have your bridge back???" "Maybe someone will rent it from you for six dollars a month."
The fact that they also just hired more people for Steven's show but they say they worry about paying ,in Shane's wife's words, livable wages but are paying new people and are worried about the pay is wild to me, like how can you hire more people when yall are having trouble with the people you already have
I get the impression a lot of this fuss is specifically because of Steven and his own goals steamrolling the other guys. He took the lead in the original video announcement and some of the verbiage by Shane and Ryan in this apology feel VERY pointed. Lots of unspoken "I told you so."
They wanted to bring on the guys from Worth It. Which Steven and Ryan wrote for Buzzfeed and was as successful, if not more successful than UnSolved. Hiring the two guys from that show would be worth it in my eyes specifically Andrew, he's very charismatic and has quite the following of his own. They could all make really good popular content together. They will make more money with Andrew and Adam, I just think they failed to realise they would need to make budget cuts else where to support the new talent.
Welcome to the corporate world. my last company they kept delaying our pay rise for over 2 years saying lack of funds but kept hiring new people with higher salary. And what do you know they lost 7 of the original members within 6 months. Companies have the money but refuse to take a dip in profit for a better workplace
i just feel like they so easily dismissed all youtube viewers who dont pay them like "if ure unable to afford a little 6 dollars subscription we dont need you to see our content BYE" like okay bye im not returning even after the apology 🤷🏻♂️
Honestly, they might just be really out of touch and somehow genuinely not know that $6 wasn’t affordable to everyone. I don’t watch their stuff, but that’s how I perceived it
As someone who works in market research, it’s absolutely BAFFLING to me that they didn’t poll their audience on this idea first. It seems like the way the “goodbye CZcams” video was led up to and the entire concept of that video was very insincere and not transparent, which left people feeling ambushed and then thrown away. If they had asked their patreon members and their CZcams audience what they thought about a potential streaming service, they could’ve gauged the audience reaction and also introduced everyone to the idea in a more gradual way, but instead they hit everyone with it out of left field once the decision had already been made. Especially when they’ve created a community that feels a close personal connection to them, it really feels like a betrayal to leave them out of decisions like this. I just want to know if they consulted with a professional about this move or did it on their own, cause they either need a refund or to hire a pro lmfao
If I had a dollar for each time some ex-buzzfeed employees made a company, resulting in 3 men talking seriously on a couch, I'd have 2, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
If I had a nickel for everytime someone has repurposed this quote in another uninspired way, I'd be rich. Which is hilarious considering the quote was about something be slightly unusual, not so common you hear it multiple times a day.
Watcher: “We are going through financial strive, thus we need more money from our fans!!!” Also Watcher: *hires two people to continue a series which causes major financial costs, to reboot a show that had its own channel that flopped due to lack of funds…* 🤔🤔🤔
This is what I feel like a lot of people aren’t connecting, like they make this announcement as soon as they hire on the two guys associated with making content that involves buying the most expensive food/service and it’s just a coincidence?? Seems a lil fishy
I have to admit, I'm also shocked how genuine this apology is. They took accountability for everything, addressed all the feedback and concerns, didn't try to deflect or act like they're right, and explained things pretty clearly. I'm in agreement that it's baffling why they thought this was necessary to make a separate platform for further profit when they aren't struggling, but they at least were quick to react and course correct instead of doubling down on it and blame their fans. So good on them for that.
I agree. I thought it was a sincere apology that also addressed people's concerns with appropriate solutions... It is weird though why they felt like a private platform sub model was needed though? I seriously question the decisions of their ceo on this... and I'd be curious about what type of contracts Shane and Ryan have agreed to with him.
You should not be needing an apology from the Internet. Like seriously what is wrong with you? I think you need to put your phone down and get in touch with actual human beings. Anybody who is needing an apology from somebody on a free platform is completely out of touch.
The funny thing is, if they had just made a kickstarter or crowdfund and stated, "hey this is how much this show costs to make, please help us raise the money we need for the season and then we'll go do it" with direct promises of what that money was for, they would've easily hit targets, like no question, especially if it was Puppet History or Ghost Files related. Asking people to pay for a nebulous idea including content they don't want was the wrong move when they could've easily focused on direct funding to things they want.
@ZackM-sx7tc Brother, as a woman, if you start a sentence off with "Not to be a creep, but", whatever you're saying or typing should stay as an inside thought 😭
You're right. If one of your shows is watching someone eat literal gold maybe people don't want to see that if it means they now have to pay to see the content people want to see.
When Smosh was going down, they literally sold their company in order to provide free entertainment to their fans while still being able to do what they wanted creatively. I think it's frustrating that their first thought was not to get a financial manager, business manager, even a damn media/marketing manager or look within their company to see what they could do but rather impose it on their fans. Saying we're taking away all your content if you don't pay us is wildly horrible marketing strategy to introduce a new product.
Smosh is such a good example. They have way more mouths to feed and much lesser views during that era. They survived without paywalling and now became bigger than ever before.
Because Steven's tesla isnt going to paid itself, or you know...Steven's lets go eat to the most expensive restaurant we can find and make a video of me eating a 1000 dollars hamburger, for the channel of course. Also, who has extra money to hire a financial manager or a business manager? Steven first needs to hire his buddies from back of Buzzfeed to work on his lets eat expensive food show.
the best example I've come across so far. Big props to smosh for not giving up and always trying to keep their fans happy. Now I'm even more bothered by the whole Watcher situation considering what Smosh went through.
I was wondering if they were going through something similar to smosh. Perhaps they already sold watcher and are owned by a scammy company or already have a manager who is taking way more than their fair share(?) That's the only way I can see their maths making sense...
I have to say Watcher handled the situation with a lot of grace. It wasn't a desperate "Please buy our thing", it was a "Oh, we realize some of our supporters might not be able to buy our thing, we're sorry" before promptly changing their tactics for how they went about this new platform.
Lmfao there was no mistake, they knew what they were begging for money and attempted to tone it perfectly to avoid criticism. Millionaires begging longtime subscribers to fund their yacht. You think they didn't know?
I think one of my biggest problems is they introduced these changes in a way that fits the format of “I’m talking to you as a friend and not a customer.” I feel like they prooooobably knew this might not go over so well, so they had this “month early + ad free” on the back burner. This is a good business decision! When making big changes, it’s good to have the same changes but to a lesser extent just in case people don’t like it. To then make the business decision into this idea of speaking to you, their FRIENDS, from the couch in plain clothes trying to be comfy and casual and saying we are sooooo sorry we never thought this could happen…. It feels very disingenuous.
Cmon friend (person they don't know who is on average a random teenager) give us more money so we can make even more profit. CZcamsrs hate para-social relationships until tax season comes around
@@aaronstevens5325 First off, not doing something scummy like this knowing full well is wrong. Now since it has impacted them negatively they're obligated to apologize. Not because they want to, but because they have to
@@IvyHale151 All apologies are made out of obligations. You're obligated to apologize to the wronged party for whatever you've done to wrong them. Doesn't matter how you feel about the person, it's what's supposed to be done regardless.
Their "Goodbye" video basically described their viewership as negligible and inconsequential. Not what I'd call good marketing. Also, I think them talking about their $250K wedding and honeymoon before crying about needing more money was very ill advised.
@@rs-mt6kli think it’s Shane’s? But also steven just got married so it might be that! But both weddings were insanely expensive (no one needs three dresses for one day XD)
what ultimately confuses me and I haven't really seen anyone talking about is the cost of creating and managing an entirely new streaming platform, like to operate they need their current staff to dedicate more time to managing it or hiring new staff to solely focus on it or outsourcing to a company. I understand that this way all profits go to them and they don't have to pay an already established streaming platform to host their shows and receive a smaller cut but I honestly don't see how that would cost them more than creating a whole new platform, maybe I'm ill-informed but from the outside I don't get it it would have made more sense and honestly probably been more lucrative and well received if they just had their episodes go up early on their patreon, they would probably get more people signing up and paying more money at different tiers rather than a solid $5.99 from everyone and wouldn't have the added cost of making an entirely new platform
I love how Ryan just looks scared, Shanes face exudes pure "told you so", and Steven is just barely holding on, watching his dream of even more money crumble before him.
Why are people so butthurt about it though, paramount+, Netflix, Hulu, hbo max all cost money, twitch subs, but they crossed the line by wanting people to pay a monthly subscription for content?
What if they were genuinely sorry? We get it, you like drama. You like it when someone famous goes under because its a guarantee ego booster. But these guys were sorry and generally cares for their fans.
it’s funny that wealthy people always conveniently forget that $6 to most of the middle-lower class is a cheeseburger for lunch and that means a lot to some of us. Edit: Also it seems like they mismanage their money and asking for more is not the ethical way to fix that issue.
here's my little piece for the "staying relevant to brands"--i went to their live show in 2023, where we were shown the Montana State Prison ghost files episode. we were then told after the episode that because the CZcams episode was sponsored by a certain advertiser, most of the "inappropriate" content that we had just seen at the show would be cut for the CZcams release--and it was. most of these guys' most memorable moments are them being dumbasses and inappropriate while ghost hunting, namely. if most of their ads are causing them to restrict their content like that one episode did, I understand why they wanted to ditch ads and make their own service--to make the content they and their viewers want.
Out of curiosity, what kind of stuff was cut? Because I can’t imagine what they’d be doing there that’s so not safe for CZcams that it would scare off an advertiser. Unless they’re taking dumps on the floor uncensored or calling the ghosts slurs I can’t think of what would turn off an advertiser when true crime channels and such get sponsors. Especially when I think back to their Buzzfeed stuff- they had a lot more fun but none of it seemed “edgy”
@@averyeml I don't remember the exact bits that were cut because I obviously only saw it once, but I believe one of the jokes and bits that ran through the entire episode was the guys making jokes about Satan's penis. I'm sure there were more, but that's all I remember.
@@lunarlullaby05 gotcha- yeah I get not recalling specific bits but vibes are plenty. I could see that being on the edge depending on the sponsor. I think the guys have some work to do on the back end regarding staff size vs. output but if they can strike a better balance, those advertisers could either be turned down or put up with because they could cut more loose in other videos. I want to see them succeed but I think there’s some bigger issues that they gotta hammer out. I want my ghoul boys back!
@@averyeml I agree. I've been a fan of the guys since s1 of unsolved, so I honestly paid for a sub to their service immediately, but that's only because I'm lucky enough to have a good paying job and not a ton of other things I need to budget for. I put on all of my socials that any of my mutuals could have my password, at least before their apology video. I do think they need to iron out a few more things, but I think the whole thing of them releasing episodes a month earlier than CZcams on their site is a pretty smart move, all things considered.
The funniest thing to me is that their patreon already existed at nearly the same price and we already got content early through it. This whole thing could've been avoided if they just upped the patreon price by one dollar, released ad-free content a month early rather than a day early, and advertised it more on their CZcams channel. And Patreon has a comment section so the community would be more engaged and still get to discuss new episodes as they come out.
Buuut moooom, daaaad they want their own site 👶. Jokes aside, I get they really wanna own their media to the *bone.* But they really don’t NEED too yet. And honestly they can’t yet, the audience doesn’t want that.
He took most of the flak for the decision from an audience he probably thought supported him just as much as the other two. The thing is most people didn’t want to blame Shane or Ryan which is probably why.
@@LeMenace1this, but also, he was the one who said “anyone can afford it.” even if they came up with that together, steven said it, which probably allowed people to find a scapegoat to not hate on ryan or shane.
unironically one of the best youtuber apologies genuinely sincere and admitted wrongs and actually said what 90% of apologies don't say "I'm sorry" solid 8.7/10 apology
@@RyuKyu.77 She had a little pretentious guilt trip moment on her tumblr implying people who didn't want to pay for WatcherTV didn't want to pay workers livable wages or something along those lines. The funny part about it is, her and Shane's wedding was apparently in the $250,000 range, and she wore THREE DIFFERENT wedding dresses. In one day. So her post comes of VERY out-of-touch and preachy.
I cried alot as a kid because I couldn't use any of my game codes again from the games I bought physically. Literally didn't get to play them just found out I needed a new SD card after installing them then EA NEVER let me use my expensive ass games again.
Their live show made me not trust them at all, it was called Ghost Files Live so we assumed they would research the city they are in and have a little script about the ghost stories of that area and Ryan would read it while Shane joked about, their classic setup. Instead they just.....played a 40 minute youtube video of an episode of ghost files. They did a Q&A after but probably 1/5th of the audience left before that. It was really disappointing.
I still can't get behind "we weren't going to survive, we were going to have to lay off employees and eventually shutter without this pay wall", when they are also expanding by hiring two more, I'm sure expensive, on screen talents.
It seems like it is their own fault. They grew too big too fast and are afraid to make the necessary changes because they don't want to fire anyone. So instead they are making everyone else pay for their mistake.
@@semperaugustus661 not that they grew too fast, they just want everything to be super high quality when thats not what we care about. We care about the personalities not the set of the shows or the animations. they seen to have this idea that more people equals higher quality which isnt true
@@niccolom4556 You have to have natural growth. If we take them at their word that the company is bleeding money and on the verge of shuttering and costing everyone their jobs it is an incredibly unwise and frankly selfish move to keep expanding rather then tightening things up and keeping your people employed.
Not only did they hire 2 more on screen talent. They want to bring back the more expensive show of traveling and eating expensive food. Nothing about their announcement said “we need to stay afloat” all it said to me was “I want more”
bro i know this is an unpopular opinion, but they had no idea how the public would respond when they announced the paywall and they heard the feedback and catered to it positively…. all is forgiven as far as i go
that's bullshit. anyone with half a brain can understand that suddenly putting your content behind a paywall when it's otherwise been free for like 6+ years is obviously not going to go over well
I'm sorry, but the whole situation felt like a fever dream. I mean, Shane "eat the rich" Madej making a CZcams apology over such a topic? Yeah, never in a million years did I see this coming as a long time viewer since Buzzfeed Unsolved
"For free" really pisses me off, it's not free because we are watching ads/brand deals/paying for premium. No one is doing anyone a favor or providing anything for free if it's on CZcams
What gave me the biggest ick was the moral attachment of people’s finances and fair wages (see Sarah’s post). Why is it on the audience to pay fair wages to the employees? Meanwhile Steven drives a Tesla (mentioned in a Watcher podcast), flies out to Korea to eat good food, and let’s not forget how expensive many Dish Granted episodes. Yes, lay-offs suck, but if pay equity is such a priority (as it should), then why add 2 more employees for a new fancy show? Why expand so quickly if it can’t be done sustainably? Another thing of note is that some of the most viewed content seemed not as costly to produce, literally done in a backyard or virtually (Too Many Spirits and Are You Scared?). I was a die-hard Buzzfeed Unsolved fan in my broke college days, and was a die-hard Watcher fan until that goodbye announcement. It honestly feels weird to continue supporting them knowing that their finances are likely being mismanaged to the point of fair wages being at risk
Completely agree. Someone nailed it on their video. Steven is money hungry. Ryan is fame and growth hungry and Shane went along with it because he had no choice.
@@livi9052It's possible his wife drank the corporate growth kool aid more than he did. She's a highly influential and highly paid member of that company, too. But it's truly impossible to know anything for sure.
They literally didn't read the room at all. This doesn't sound like a problem that they need to throw more money at. It sounds like a problem with controlling their money outflow.
As someone who is almost finished with their Business Management degree, one of the first things I was taught was to always have an Exit Strategy if you plan on being a business owner. I would ask what they were thinking the whole time they were doing this, but it's now clear they didn't have a sustainable long-term plan.
Or it could just be the truth, if you go into every situation thinking an explanation is just a sympathy garnering tactic then the whole world will seem like a bunch of manipulative cunts.
Good thing it doesn't seem to be working. Most are accepting of the apology but still are asking how the hell they allegedly ended up in such bad shape.
Honestly Im completely turned off by Watcher now, the facade is broken with this sht and that language has caused me to just see these three dudes as greedy corporate faces now. Any of their business problems are completely on them as a business, if they dont make content that the public enjoys or watches, thats on THEM to produce content thats viable. And that wasn’t even a problem with their channel; people genuinely enjoy them! But their poor ass business decisions and “tv quality” obsession with videos lead them t9 this point. If they want to do tv, they should put their asses into hollywood, except they won’t because they’d be at the bottom all over again and they already have a large yt audience. As we have seen throughout the years, youtube IS NOT television programming. I’m sorry for being so fired up about stupid drama, but I’m actually disgusted with these guys. I used to love watching them; but they’ve became what they were running from. Just Buzzfeed but in different font.
its a common reason believe it or not, bad stuff comes out when something goes wrong and clearly they needed to give a reasonable reason on what they did, its not only for people to feel "bad" for them its also to assure people that they made a mistake due to this "reason" that they gave, if they gave a reason that isnt acceptable they would dig a deeper hole on what they already dug it would be a dumber decision up top a dumb decision. so if you made a dumb decision in the future and dont want to look even dumber dont halfass your reasons
I can't imagine Ryan and Shane's "Ghost Files", "Puppet History" or "Are you Scared?" really costs that much to make. It's 100% Steven's luxurious spending that brought them in this position in the first place.
Of the ventures that would cost a lot more to produce would be Ghost Files if they are traveling around the country and having to bring camera crews along, equipment, rent hotels, buying food, etc, BUT just like Charlie said they make a really good chunk of change through patreon, ads, and merch They should have plenty to cover the costs of Ghost Files. It seems like they need to have an actual accountant or something along the lines to help them budget their money if they are that hurting for cash.
to be honest, I was SO surprised by their decision, I've been following this group since their BuzzFeed days, this really felt out of nowhere... I am glad that as genuine people they replied to their community the right way. They've always been relatable about financial situations, about their dreams and goals creatively, etc. So I don't know if possibly someone hyped them up a LOT blinding them with that excitement.
I'm so glad charlie brought up the fact that their content is super brand friendly, cuz that's like the first thing I thought when they were explaining their original decision. They're former buzzfeed employees, their content is pretty much as brand-friendly as you can get. So to act like getting brand deals was an issue hasn't made sense to me
I could see maybe if they wanted to include more drunk content (idk CZcams's stance on that) or swear more, but yeah, most of their content is perfectly fine for advertisers...
Exactly, it's not like Dropout where they're drawing dongs every other episode and swearing like sailors. There's a need for an independent platform for content that YT will flag, but that never felt like the case for this group.
That's what I thought. I guess you could call some of their topics not suitable for kids and their language isn't clean either, but over all, what's the problem. Or rather, what kind of content did they plan for the future, that couldn't be put on CZcams? What are they planning that could risk their "brand-saveness"?
@@msthecommentator2863 but I have to disagree. They do swear quite often and a lot of the stuff and jokes they make can be “inappropriate” for a younger audience. Especially when doing their true crime content their jokes can get pretty graphic . I am not sure where the family friend/clean comments are coming from. They also have a show where they try to get extremely drunk and often talk about Ryan being a stoner. Maybe they wanted to make more mature content where they don’t have to beat around the bush about things and watch what they speak about. Maybe have a stoner version or too many spirits without getting demonetized or having trouble finding a sponsor. I’m not saying they made the right decision with making their own platform, but saying their content is “clean/family friendly” is not completely true.
I agree with Charlie in that I appreciate the apology, but it still doesn’t land for me. Shane sounded genuine, Ryan sounded scared, and Steven sounded about as empathetic as an HR manager explaining why you don’t qualify for unemployment after being laid off. Thanks for the “sorry” boys, but you already showed your hand.
shane means it, and was probably expecting this response. if ryan was scared, its probably because it seems like that was part of his Big Dream(tm) and hes seeing that it isnt able to happen the way he thought it was. steven literally does not give a shit, hes always been in it for the money imo.
@@ohapplesaucegood, don’t support them. Any employees laid off will surely find a new job and they needn’t be spending their *apparent* low revenue on hundreds of thousands of dollars on weddings.
I think they didn’t put enough thought into the fact that a big part of their audience is international. For example, 6 dollars for them actually are R$30,00 in my country. Second thing is, most people aren’t going to pay for something they had free access to since the beginning
I'm in the U.S. but this was one of my first thoughts as well. The whole "anyone and everyone can afford" was completely out of touch. It shows ignorance of not only the current cost of living crisis in their own country of residence, but a complete lack of any consideration for their international fans. If Lim is flying all over the world to try expensive food how are they so willfully ignorant of the implications of $6 elsewhere? It's elitist and maddening and I'm not resubscribing.
I legit joked about this possibility to myself earlier but I genuinely would not be surprised. The guy makes all the financial decisions apparently and he’s the CEO who gets the final say. This whole idea has his name written all over it
They are treating their fans the way restaurants treat patrons. Its OUR responsibility to pay the employees enough to survive, not theirs. Its bullshit
Be honest though, how could they have improved their apology even further? They apologized sincerely, took accountability, and directly fixed pretty much the main issue people had with their move while still trying to save face financially. Are they just irredeemable to yall?
Honestly, this is by far the best CZcams apology I’ve ever seen and they handled it so great and they now did it the best compromise they could have come up with, my subscription is now safely secured
As somebody who loved watcher before this happened, I just can’t go back and support them the same way that I used to. The mindset the main characters (Ryan and Shane) have had in the past was the “eat the rich” mentality and then for them to turn around and go “yeah we need more money so we can travel and eat expensive food.” It just left a sour taste that the apology didn’t take out.
Not that big a deal in my opinion, they just made an ill informed decision, didn't hurt anyone, didn't affect anyone, no harm done. Just a stupid mistake.
Here's what Shane Madej's wife said about this issue over on her Tumblr: "I get people don't like to pay for things that were once free, but paying people fairly and making a survivable living while making cool things is HARD." - Sara Rubin I'm sorry but If you're already having trouble sustaining the money that's coming in from this project then that's an issue in your camp. There's people working two separate 40 hour a week jobs barely making a "survivable living", It just sounds like they are living above their means.
This is the same woman who in the post DIRECTLY BEFORE THIS ONE, showcased that she bought a $115 Tote Bag. Oh, and spent an estimated $55k on the wedding. But sure, pop off about "survivable" wages
Exactly. I saw a video recently of this girl talking about how her and her husband live on one source of income and her first advice was “don’t buy a new car, get a used one” like yeah as if all of us poors have luxury new Lexus 😂 if they live in California they are definitely living above their means and they feel entitled to it. Girls don’t NEED to get their hair colored and cut by an expensive hair dresser. They don’t need to get their nails done. They don’t need to wear the newest clothes or have expensive handbags. I bring a $30 backpack to work everyday, and I bought it 4 years ago. I don’t eat lunch to save money dawg 😂 sometimes I just drink water to feel full lmao
there is always this kind of people that whatever you do its always look negative to them. im a long time fans since buzzfeed i know they messed but i accept their apology. we are human being we cant all be perfect, as long as they are owning their mistakes im ready to forgive and move on
Wealth literally rots people's brains. These guys are falling for the same stupid thought process as most greedy business owners: the idea of unlimited growth. They're already making an insane amount of money and yet it's still not enough for them. They could all quit now and never have to work a day in their lives but they're so addicted to capital gains they'll never be satisfied. They're chasing the dragon
Im so glad I’ve always despised money. I get the amount I need and nothing more. I have no desire to accumulate wealth. I want to live a happy life, not a rich one.
They are one of my favorites. Watcher, unsolved mysteries are a must watch for me. Shane and Ryan chemistry together is so great . Am so glad they addressed our concerns and apologized it’s very rare to have influencers/famous figures acknowledge their mistake nowadays . I appreciate them and am happy they fixed it all..
How is this a proper apology?? Where's the interpretative dance? Where's the gaslighting? No cringe poems?
ikr not even a ukulele, very disappointing
@@demetribaldwin I demand ukulele, I can lend them mine
Honestly though, i like the guys and im happy they realized their mistake
@@LeonBix It's genuine not beating around the bush. How apologies should be, straightforward.
No one is sitting on the floor or wearing white. I’m so disappointed.
"Shane finally saw a ghost, the ghost of his career." This comment had me wheezing
LMAOOO
Wheezing? Do you have asthma?
This comment couldn't be more true.
@@MayorGoldieWilson825nah they got COPD
@@MayorGoldieWilson825 wheezing is like an inside joke from their buzzfeed days unsolved series
They left buzzfeed and then made all the financial mistakes buzzfeed made. You don't HAVE to build elaborate sets, you don't HAVE to hire all your friends, you don't HAVE to constantly travel. There are bigger channels than them that are literally just a dude in a chair.
But if they wanted to do that, they wouldn’t have started at Buzzfeed. It’s the same thing with the Try Guys imo, where they don’t just want to be content creators, and they don’t want to just be youtubers. They want to be media hosts/personalities and producers at their own independent production company, and youtube is just an easy way to build a fan base and get money from it. They all liked Buzzfeed, minus the lack of ownership over your work and quota system. But the Try Guys and Buzzfeed Unsolved were two of the biggest shows they ever made, so they definitely had better treatment than other staff members there.
The only good transition (that I’ve seen) from Buzzfeed content into being a normal CZcamsr is Safiya Nygaard, who has been pretty good at staying relevant by making fun content that often stays within a niche. She doesn’t let the jokes run old/stale, and she doesn’t make a parody out of herself. It’s a great incorporation of her real life with content, and she’s always been pretty entertaining. Her videos are also high quality while still feeling like she’s a creator, not just the host or the star personality of the video. Those kinds of things are what rub me the wrong way about Watcher and Try Guys
Which is a poetic saying as Charles is a good example
Yea I really hope they’re just terrible at managing their money rather than them just being greedy since I actually kinda care about those guys
people LOVED the low quality shit. small office, old ass decorations, and blue and yellow text on a black screen? 10/10. it was so good cause their personalities not the quality
(watcher had some bangers too ngl but they kinda ventured pretty far from the content i liked)
Ikr?? I stuck with Watcher for maybe a year or two when they first started, but I lost interest in Puppet History when they killed off the professor (I think it came back but I just didn't care by that point), and I was growing out of the ghost hunting/true crime videos before they even left BUN. They never put out anything else that really grabbed me-- going through their channel now it just looks like a 2015 Buzzfeed reskin. That kind of content was fun when I was 17-18, but now I'm 26 and it's not for me lol.
Nothing compares to buzzfeed unsolved, especially pre covid buzzfeed unsolved. That period of unsolved was pure gold. So good. So entertaining. Two dudes talking, black screen. Just amazing
I only watch Watcher for Shane and Ryan's mystery and ghost files.
This! Why do they need sets, videographers, etc? You can also get amazing quality on smartphones now. Spending all this money just to make the videos is ridiculous.
1000% agree
I would have paid $6 to see the absolute chaos crisis-mode the office must have been in the whole weekend
Nice copy and paste
I imagine a lot of pissing, shitting, and crying. 😂
I bet $6 a lot of pointing who's fault this shit happened in their office
Also gonna wagger that this definitely made their relationship with each other on thin ice
delete this before they see it
@@swiftlyjer-pdf delete it before they delete it first
the thing that has bugged me the most during this whole situation is shane's wife's tumblr post. she said something about how it's hard to pay people fairly and also make a survivable wage. girl... your wedding venue alone cost $50k and you wore THREE DIFFERENT wedding dresses. last week you posted about a $100 TOTE BAG you bought. don't pretend you're struggling or barely making a "survivable wage"
edit: I'm not saying she can't spend her money how she wants to. I just think it's annoying when rich ppl act like they are struggling financially
Not to mention his wife doesn't work none of that money was her own it was watcher money she just wants people to keep paying for her expensive tastes while she gets to sit home and do half assed art
Where are you seeing the three wedding dresses? I’ve only seen one and a shorter dress she wore at her reception.
Poor
After that story addition no wonder, this pay to play strategy was brought so that their wives could buy a gucci purse😂
Rather knowing how to manage your funds the right way 🫢
“We can’t keep this type of content on YT”
“Okay, so we will keep this content on YT, just a month late”
😆yup. Plus, idk man, everyone else seems to be able to keep their content on YT, so it sounds like an issue on your end.
Other channels already do this shit. You guys are just throwing a hissy fit because your relatable CZcams want to get paid for it lol. They're stupid doe announcing it
@@nuyynuyy they ARE getting paid though patreon, merch, live show tickets with ad cents and sponsors it's not a making money issue it's a irresponsible spending issue
With this method they aren't as exposed to risk when their videos get demonetized. They talk about murder and sex and rape all the time, thankfully without bleeping or annoyingly muting them out, other channels won't even say those words for fear of getting demonetized. If you're only posting one or two big videos per week it takes a huge chunk of the revenue if it gets flagged.
@@Maplebear1203 patreon has a tax, merch is barely sold, they don't have many live shows, sponsors hardly reaches out to them and sometimes sponsors doesn't give money but rather benefits.
How far has society come that public figures acknowledging what they did wrong while apologizing is now a high standard for an apology
Cause everyone is so numb to the fact that most people just ignore the criticism, double-down, attack the people critiquing, or just blatantly keep doing what they're doing that when someone actually realizes of their mistake, people think it's a needle in a haystack. Why? All we see if just the worst of the worst, so we just expect someone to be a scumbag.
Bc it’s the right thing to do and it shows they listened- and that’s kinda rare
@@sweetcherry7759I mean if they didn’t listen, they would permanently stain their career. This is the bare minimum.
It's different with the Watcher guys. They're actually good dudes. Most people would've just ignored their fans. Lol.
R u new to CZcams?? Most apologies aren't apologies. They usually go on a counter attack and double down or shift blame 😂😂😂
they were at their best when it was just blue and yellow text on a screen. they really never needed more production value than that
Ikr?? That's when I watched them the most! I mean of course they had production value still, using stock images in a clever way, really good video editing etc., but they don't need an insanely high budget.
I'm betting that the format didn't bring in new viewers enough or it got played out. Sure we have a nostalgia bias, but no matter how great the original style is, the appetites of the viewers, especially considering there are always new young kids coming onto youtube, there almost certainly has to be a refreshing element. Only in very very rare cases can one stay true to the same exact format and maintain for more than a couple years. But who knows. Hard to deconstruct and be sure
@Robisquick im sure that flashier/higher production value videos made it easier to attract newer & younger viewers. if they never changed i know that i personally never would have complained
@@Robisquickactually they left because Unsolved was not allowing them to provide their own input into any of the videos and was making it harder and harder for them. They talked about it before. I do miss the text on the video but they might not be able to do that because it could be property of Unsolved.
Never heard of this channel. Is it like a spiritual successor to Buzzfeed's unsolved?
You touched on what the community suspects is going on: mismanagement behind the scenes. Specifically, the impression we get is that they've hired too many people, and have wildly inflated production budgets.
As an example: they've got a lets-play series called Survival Mode. How many people do you think need to be involved in making a lets-play series? There's two people on screen, plus an editor, plus to be generous maybe someone to handle the lights, cameras, and microphones. Four people tops, right?
For their latest Survival Mode episode, on top of the 2 people on screen/playing the games, they had a director, producer, tech director, editor, post-production supervisor, production coordinator, gaffer, camera operator, sound mixer, PA, DIT, and assistant editor. That's 14 people working on one episode of a lets-play. (There were more people credited, but I'm limiting this to people who presumably had hands on producing *that episode*, unlike for example the logo designer, executive producers, head of development, and head of production.)
Thanks to u/Shitfaced-Crusader on reddit who raised this to the greater community's attention
PLEASE tell me it's at least the best let's play ever with dynamic lighting effects and multiple cameras and amazing editing that doesn't rely on the game itself. Because otherwise wtf is a director going to do? The game is the director.
And I just went to look at it and it's the most basic shit ever...
@@ferinzz ur gonna hate this but the game is the main part along with shane and ryan joking about, theres some lighting changes throughout and some light editing here and there but literally no use for that many ppl 😭
I'm all for creating new jobs,,,, but that's INSANE
Thats insane. To put it in perspective...when Gametheory does their GTNotLive vids, aka their let's plays...they have a team of four: Matt on the couch as the host, Ash as cameraperson, audio tech, and co-host, an Editor in post-production, and I believe one additional audio/video tech person. GT is also a huge channel like Watchers, so the fact that Watchers is using a team of 14 people for a lets play vid whereas Game Theory, a channel of similar size, does it with a team of four is insane mismanagement on Watchers' part.
I've seen higher production quality LPs done by just a single person and they were full LPs on top of that instead of just mostly one offs that Watcher was doing
“We need to pay our employees a fair wage” *brings on two more people and starts up worth it again*
it's insane to me that andrew and adam even agreed to join this whole mess... it makes me feel like steven/ryan/shane were so unaware about their audience's perception of them, they appeared confident enough for others to accept whatever offer they'd make
i just can't wrap my mind around the fact that there were so many important figures in a room and everyone just agreed with the leaving youtube idea, like, no one said a thing??? specially andrew. dude always seemed to be so down to earth and idk? wise? lmfao it's just weird
“We need to pay our employees a fair wage.” *LIVES IN CALIFORNIA MAKING CONTENT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CALIFORNIA*
Guys, just move your business somewhere more cost effective … your 1mil salaries would go much further literally 100miles east.
You’re right about their ads. Their fan base has actually complimented them on their sponsored bits several times and said they watch them willingly because of how fun they are. I can’t believe they would find it hard to get sponsors at all.
The ads on the last Mystery Files season maybe even got more compliments than the actual content, I saw loads of people getting really invested in them.
I love Professor Morris Ashley and his story. I want to see if he can find love after his time with his beautiful, estranged, Italian wife, Bianca Sophia.
The way I look at it is that they want full control on whether or not the videos will be monetized or not. CZcams can at any time say "were changing the rules to monetization" and they wont have a say about the matter. Not to say their solution to this risk makes good sense for the audience.
@CleanserSquadSigma HEY EVERYONE this mf spelt asked wrong what a loser! Let’s all point and laugh at him!🫵🤣
there are a few content creators who's ads are either too funny to skip or blend in pretty well to the skit they are doing. Ryan George's can be funny sometimes and Zach Star blends his with his skits.
25 employees and not even one capable finance manager
there's just friends and family in that company. no finance manager
its not so much the channel... they are living extravagant lives so they keep paying themselves a "liveable wage" you know one that enough to to host as couple 100k wedding
@@sarahm.8013for their apology video alone, they credit like 2 directors of photography, a creative director, multiple editors, a production coordinator,... . That's not "i hire some friends&family". That is thinking they are a tv channel!
😂
@@SonjaHamburg and even all that for an apology video is crazy.
When they were describing Ghost Files costs thats when it clicked for me. I watched their supernatural on buzzfeed and was really enjoying it, but with watcher it didn't hit the same... thats probably because on buzzfeed they went in maybe couple of people and a few small cameras on tripod. You can tell ryan was actually scared there. I bet its less scary when you go into an abandoned building with crew of 15 people and lots of equipment. Didn't feel genuine for me anymore
Yeah I watched Ghost Files a few times but it wasn't as good as Unsolved. I actually hadn't even thought of them for a year or so until this hit.
I think part of that is also that at the start of buzzfeed, he was a random dude who had no real experience with going into these haunted places. Exposure therapy is a real thing, overtime the more people are exposed to/experience their fears the less they're scared of them. He went from having no experience to being a bona-fide ghost hunter. Of course he's not as scared, he's been in dozens of haunted places by now.
@@oliviap.1370 yes, I agree, this also plays a big role in this. It's not realistic for everyone to continue with every episode like its their first. That's why it just doesn't hit the same
They should've posted the apology on the Watcher platform and put the preview on CZcams.
Lol that's a good one
No ukulele, apology declined.
Top comment.
Absolutely agree.
That dude likes dudes 😂😂😂
*Don’t read my name…😮*
It fell off massively tbh
I do fully believe that they are mismanaging their money and don’t know how to budget properly. None of these 3 guys know anything about running a business. Shane and Ryan fully backed out of their executive roles in the company to make Steven the sole CEO. And Steven, frankly, is the one whose content specifically revolved around buying, eating, and/or making very expensive food. From my perspective, he doesn’t have the best grasp on sound financial decision making.
Honestly Charlie, you should get in contact with them and see what the hell is going on over at watcher hq 💀
yeah, like worth it was fine cause it was all off buzzfeed money but i don’t think he fully realizes that this isn’t buzzfeed anymore and the people aren’t gonna be happy with him eating gold and truffles in his tesla off viewers money 💀💀
lol, I've watched Shane and Ryan's content and if Steven has been involved in their content.. cool. But I have never watched anything Steven has produced. It just doesn't interest me.
Honestly he could write off all that expensive food as a tax write off in the United States if it was in a monetized video. So if he’s smart enough to do that at least he’s getting a fat return every year which is even worse
I didn't realize Steven is now in charge, that explains a lot in a very worrying way.
I'd pay money for Charlie and MatPat to drop in on Watcher to provide financial guidance like a reality show.
I think they shot themselves in the foot pretty badly here. One of the things that separated Watcher from other CZcamsrs or entertainment ventures was their extremely loyal and active fanbase. If the situation was that they needed money right now or the channel would shut down, they genuinely could've just asked the fanbase point blank and the fans would've been there. Now, no matter how loyal the fans were originally, there's always gonna be a bad taste left in your mouth when you think of the company.
That is exactly how I feel! Like I don’t watch every video but even id try and chip in if they just flat out asked and I own multiple pieces of merch too. But like even with this apology being good I just can’t look at them the same
Maybe if they weren’t spending ~$250,000 on a wedding and other extravagances they wouldn’t need to try and milk their fanbase for more money.
Exactly, a simple “hey, wanna donate so we can work on production value?” Woulda sufficed.
can’t believe they said they would have to end the channel if they didn’t do this??? there were A LOT of other options, cut your own salaries, fire some of your staff if necessary. their audience already throws TONS of money at them, they said it themselves, live shows merch patreon etc., it’s not the audience’s responsibility to pay your 25 employees. could’ve just made some necessary cut backs but instead greed took over and permanently damaged their brand. sad really.
I agree fully there but just want to point out something. Customers going into a restaurant to eat are expected to pay waiters in America by way of tips. A waiter/servers salary from their employers is that small and pitiful that customers are expected to give the servers a tip. Isn’t what watcher asking of it’s fan base the same as what is expected of customers in a restaurant? My thought to your comment of it’s not the audience’s responsibility to pay their staff, it’s not a customers responsibility to pay a waiters wage either. It’s the employers,
@@Lozza685 i agree with you but unfortunately employers refuse to pay their servers a living wage, that’s the way it’s been for a long time i don’t see it changing any time soon
@@Lozza685what they’re doing is closer to having a meal served by a person that’s only slightly underpaid bc of seniority/popularity, getting ample tips(patreon) and now adding an automatic tip onto your check on top of it all. i have no problem tipping but we patrons shouldn’t have to pay for more than just our meal to ensure their server made enough money to buy their own. and on top of that when a person just adds a tip for me to give them that leaves a very bitter taste. Watcher is now expecting and demanding viewers to pay for ANY of their new content, which is so much more entitled than just having a patreon where supporters CHOOSE to further support you and often get a special thank you video.
One of the comments on their video stood out to me:
“It was funny when you ate gold leaf ice cream on Buzzfeed’s dime, but it’s less funny when it’s our money”
They wanted more money, plain and simple. These buzzfeed alumni are used to a cushier lifestyle, but someone else was supplying the money back then. Now they’re treating their fans like their former employer; an infinite cash cow.
Fire everyone except Shane, Ryan and ONE cameraman. Go back to ghost hunting and storytelling (in a small studio). I will be sending them a bill for financial advice. 😂
If u can find the comment again but there @ cus you know credit. :)
@@Aceofspades2006this isn't high school. No one cares.
Best comment I’ve seen thus far
To be fair it's been 5 years since they left buzzfeed so i doubt that they are still used to a cushier lifestyle at this point, this argument would've made sense if it was only a year after they left, but after 5 years i don't think it holds much water. Though was still a very surprising and very bad move from them, never would have thought that about them
The comment section on Watcher's announcement was majestic. It turns out you either die an independent youtube channel or live long enough to see yourself become Buzzfeed again.
Crazy how I licked my lips while eating pizza as a twin girl 😘
nice copy & paste
Me when I steal someone else's comment for likes (stolen from Philip Defranco video)
Whoa. That's some truth.
Or cheat on your wife with a coworkee
This reminds me of when the fine bros tried to trademark the word “react.” It showed that they were completely out of touch with their audience and now it’s how people remember them. I doubt people will just forget this.
I forgot about them actually (fine bros)
Imagine if they paywalled the apology. That would have been galaxy brain tier.
Linus ltt levels of not reading room if they did that lol
they actually did that on patreon when the one on the left admitted to being friends with people that are "kinda racist and homophobic"
saw a comment under the apology vid that said if they’re struggling this much to produce videos even with patreon, sponsors, merch, live shows, and everything else so much so that they felt like they needed to launch this separate subscription service in the first place, it’s not a matter of making more money, it’s a matter of spending less. this hits the nail on the head for me, so many ppl are saying they’re just there for the chemistry between shane and ryan and don’t care about production quality, and it seems like watcher either doesn’t know or doesn’t care about this and both their finances and their intentions with their content seem to be horribly misguided, like they don’t know what their audience is even there to see in the first place
there's 100% some suits messing things up from behind the scenes, I guarantee it
@@idontwantahandlethoughagree!
Your comment brings up a good point. If they’re struggling, they should ask for help in a more humane and compassionate way. Not push away the majority of their viewers by putting up a literal pay-WALL.
Agree completely. If they need help financially they could come up with a new show and ask for crowd funding. The fan base would put money on anything as long as they get something out of it for not much… like buzzfeed unsolved was peak for me and although they were being funded it was cheaper than what they are doing now.
Democrats and progressives generally don't run successful businesses, the ones that do are lying and are conservatives 😂 so just like vice and buzzfeed these guys will fail no matter how much support they have or how many views they get . Democrats can mess up a wet dream . Shame the content is good , they just need a conservative to run the business .
The thing with the $6, is that it legitimately ISN'T that much, that's 1 cup of coffee a month. But the problem is that there is already 500 other services who are begging for $5-10 a month, INCLUDING THEM WITH THEIR PATREON. If they were one of 4 services in the world asking for a $6 sub, that would be one thing, but since it's one of so many (and again, they already had a different subscription that they asked people to partake in) that left such the bad taste.
and they completely forgot about conversion for outside rhe us. a fan from the Philippines on the goodbye video said $6 usd is more than a day and a half of normal wages there
If they at least made a deal or shared service with like 3-4 other channels it could've made sense, but did they really expect to earn big bucks from this? Would't it be better to make the prices on patreon higher or smt? Or even ask for direct donations? Or sell each episode for like $1?
you buy $6 cups of coffee?!?!? i doubt a cup of coffee i drink costs less than 1
@@ramseyzev5179So, so, so true! My husband earned 400€ a month (conversion rates between Euro and Dollar are not that crazy) which could provide for a family of 4! Imagine more than 10% of your wage go to that! When you can feed so many people on your wage.
Minimum wage in my state is $7. I make $15 at a really good job. They're asking for an hour of work for some people
I work on independent films that can get really high production value with just a small fraction of the budget watcher has. I call total BS on their excuse that they need more money in order to provide that quality. What I’m seeing is a huge mismanagement of funds and resources. They need to cut back on the ridiculous amount of money they’re spending before they start asking for more.
Greed. Greed is the word you’re looking for
Charlie missed that they don’t have 3 tiers on Patreon, they actually have 4. The highest isn’t $25/month it’s ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS A MONTH.
Omg who is rich enough in this economy to pay for that shit
no parasocial relationship that doesnt involve showing feet is worth half that much
@@Nunyabisness86A person who is rich enough. Seriously.
bro what-
100?! I hope there is ejaculation.on video
I think they need to hire a CEO with legitimate experience. This has been a disaster and 100% could've been avoided with more oversight and business acumen.
Apparently up until recently they were doing fine with Steven as the head, especially at the start. They did videos around the process of making their company.
But I suppose reviving his old content of traveling and eating expensive stuff threw a wrench in the machine.
I guess, they actually hired a CEO, and that's his genius Idea
"Business acumen" is how you get decisions like this in the first place.
@@GlacialScion facts
@@RazielDeTamSteven Lim is their CEO. In terms of business acumen, he is a ten year old in a 33 year old’s body.
The way you can CLEARLY tell they made Steven read the bit about insensitivity around the cost and he didn’t want to 😭
Why? Can you explain please I don’t get it
Me neither
The dude in the middle is absolutely being held at knife point
he's always been the self-righteous one ("eat the rich" yet privileged type of guy), I assume it's a bit of an ego hit to be in this position
@@VV-er3zg Beautiful, love to see it
😂😂😂😂
@@danielwood8135 meeeee tooo 😋
That knife has a name: his impending wedding bill, rumored to be around 50K+ USD
Maybe they need a ukulele
Crazy how I licked my lips while eating pizza as a twin girl 😘
My parents said if I hit 20k they'd buy me a professional camera begging you guys literally begging nshshe
Don't translate
ฉันจะสมัครรับข้อมูลใครก็ตามที่สมัครรับข้อมูลฉันและชอบความคิดเห็นนี้.
@@Austin_Jason nerd
Didn't ask. My content is far superior and has more value than anything this youtuber has ever produced so get over it!
"really odd mismanagement"
It's this one. Everything I've glimpsed from their behind the scenes makes it seem like they have no idea how to manage their money as a business and they aren't hiring anyone to do that. Ghost Files should not be taking six figures an episode to produce.
A correction from another comment. I’ve heard it’s actually only six figures a season instead, which while less is still a massive amount
@@blademasterzero If they are paying a living wage to a few people to work on it then that seems reasonable. If they are wasting 90% of it on extra shit then yea thats dumb.
@@davidlazerz8564yeah the problem is it's not "a few" people that work on it but they have So Many employees (which can be seen listed in credit under videos), they really don't need that many at all or to spend so much on production/equipment
@@davidlazerz8564 a livable wage according to data and news articles for LA is 110k, which is insane. They said they have 25 ppl hired. At 110k that’s 2.75MM a year. Even if you drop the salary to 80k that’s 2MM a year. 25 employees on salary for a CZcams channel that produces 4-6 videos a month in ridiculous. That isn’t a few people. They are bloated and more than likely paying significantly more than similar roles at other companies. Their operating expenses are too high before you get into the rest of the balance sheet. They don’t know how to run a business. They need to drastically increase their revenue (which probably was the result of their original announcement) to keep their current staff, less people at current salary levels or cheaper labor. That should be the first step before they optimize their whole production to reduce costs.
@@davidlazerz8564 They credited 17 people including a Gaffer/Lighting in a cheap Let's-play video and only put out on average a video a week. lol.
2 things people:
1. Don’t spend more than you earn.
2. Don’t think you’re bigger than CZcams - there’s thousands of stories out there… but millions of others who can tell them.
Right. If you can’t make the content because you can’t afford it, don’t make it. Their fans would rather see them make something of lower production value than feel abandoned or forced to pay them a subscription for their content
Surely no one believes they’re genuinely sorry because they messed up? They’re apologising because they’ve realised they’re gonna lose subs and money from it.
If you can't accept a well formulated apology such as this one, you can't accept any. I find that sort of sad. I do think they are sorry
@@aidanwiehl2397 it took to long and was to calculated for it to feel like anything more than "sorry we tried to blatantly demand more money we'll try to be less obvious next time"
@@aidanwiehl2397A bunch of millionaires begging for money in the most obviously manipulative tone possible. These people are extremely calculated but act like their greed was a mistake. The business is making easily a million dollars yearly, and they cry about expensive in the thousands.
Anyone reading from the promt instead of saying it in thier own words - is insincere to me
Even the demons that possess Shane knew they fucked up.
Even the goat wanted his bridge back
Is it weird I read that in my inner Morgan Freeman voice.
Guys the demons made them do this trust me 😰😰😰
My favorite comment from the og video was “maybe that fortune teller that told Ryan that he was going to die, meant his entire career…” 😂😂😂
"Shane, you have stepped in it this time, you are ON YOUR OWN."
"You can have your bridge back???"
"Maybe someone will rent it from you for six dollars a month."
The fact that they also just hired more people for Steven's show but they say they worry about paying ,in Shane's wife's words, livable wages but are paying new people and are worried about the pay is wild to me, like how can you hire more people when yall are having trouble with the people you already have
They're just worried that they won't be able to keep their $1M salaries 😂
I get the impression a lot of this fuss is specifically because of Steven and his own goals steamrolling the other guys. He took the lead in the original video announcement and some of the verbiage by Shane and Ryan in this apology feel VERY pointed. Lots of unspoken "I told you so."
Yeah with how big they were there's no way they couldn't pay their workers unless they were spending it on luxuries 💀💀💀
They wanted to bring on the guys from Worth It. Which Steven and Ryan wrote for Buzzfeed and was as successful, if not more successful than UnSolved. Hiring the two guys from that show would be worth it in my eyes specifically Andrew, he's very charismatic and has quite the following of his own. They could all make really good popular content together. They will make more money with Andrew and Adam, I just think they failed to realise they would need to make budget cuts else where to support the new talent.
Welcome to the corporate world. my last company they kept delaying our pay rise for over 2 years saying lack of funds but kept hiring new people with higher salary. And what do you know they lost 7 of the original members within 6 months. Companies have the money but refuse to take a dip in profit for a better workplace
i just feel like they so easily dismissed all youtube viewers who dont pay them like "if ure unable to afford a little 6 dollars subscription we dont need you to see our content BYE" like okay bye im not returning even after the apology 🤷🏻♂️
They said they’re keeping the videos on CZcams and will post new stuff to CZcams so what do you mean
@@EvaSofie i meant their original idea of only releasing the videos on their own platform
@@sana6057 which they aren’t doing anymore
Honestly, they might just be really out of touch and somehow genuinely not know that $6 wasn’t affordable to everyone. I don’t watch their stuff, but that’s how I perceived it
@@EvaSofie the rich la men do not care about you that's what op is trying to say.
As someone who works in market research, it’s absolutely BAFFLING to me that they didn’t poll their audience on this idea first. It seems like the way the “goodbye CZcams” video was led up to and the entire concept of that video was very insincere and not transparent, which left people feeling ambushed and then thrown away. If they had asked their patreon members and their CZcams audience what they thought about a potential streaming service, they could’ve gauged the audience reaction and also introduced everyone to the idea in a more gradual way, but instead they hit everyone with it out of left field once the decision had already been made. Especially when they’ve created a community that feels a close personal connection to them, it really feels like a betrayal to leave them out of decisions like this. I just want to know if they consulted with a professional about this move or did it on their own, cause they either need a refund or to hire a pro lmfao
If I had a dollar for each time some ex-buzzfeed employees made a company, resulting in 3 men talking seriously on a couch, I'd have 2, which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice.
Copied comment from the watcher apology video.
If I had a nickel for everytime someone has repurposed this quote in another uninspired way, I'd be rich. Which is hilarious considering the quote was about something be slightly unusual, not so common you hear it multiple times a day.
@@GW42329 oh this comment has been around for a while, seen the same exact comment years ago, kids these days dont know how to be original
@kyleellis1825 it's just a silly little thing from Phineas and Ferb
I saw this word for word on twitter
I did NOT expect them to apologise lmao
Crazy how I licked my lips while eating pizza as a twin girl 😘
Don't translate
ฉันจะสมัครรับข้อมูลใครก็ตามที่สมัครรับข้อมูลฉันและชอบความคิดเห็นนี้.
@@itz_me_aziza_21 nerd
nerd
At least they did and at least it's better than most apology vids.
Watcher: “We are going through financial strive, thus we need more money from our fans!!!”
Also Watcher: *hires two people to continue a series which causes major financial costs, to reboot a show that had its own channel that flopped due to lack of funds…*
🤔🤔🤔
This is what I feel like a lot of people aren’t connecting, like they make this announcement as soon as they hire on the two guys associated with making content that involves buying the most expensive food/service and it’s just a coincidence?? Seems a lil fishy
I have to admit, I'm also shocked how genuine this apology is. They took accountability for everything, addressed all the feedback and concerns, didn't try to deflect or act like they're right, and explained things pretty clearly. I'm in agreement that it's baffling why they thought this was necessary to make a separate platform for further profit when they aren't struggling, but they at least were quick to react and course correct instead of doubling down on it and blame their fans. So good on them for that.
I agree. I thought it was a sincere apology that also addressed people's concerns with appropriate solutions...
It is weird though why they felt like a private platform sub model was needed though? I seriously question the decisions of their ceo on this... and I'd be curious about what type of contracts Shane and Ryan have agreed to with him.
Watcher: "We were going to lay off employees and we weren't going to survive if we didn't do this"
Also Watcher: *continues to hire more people*
Have to understand though. New hires are often overworked and paid basically nothing, way cheaper than current employees
Also Watcher: and in our apology video we’re gonna lie about our revenue
@@scourgehh714 actually usually existing employees are paid ass and the new hires get hired on a dollar more
For their "high quality".... Food shows? 😅
@@scourgehh714 and? Their profit is huge.
I’m SO glad they apologized. Everyone needs to take a book out of the sonic movie and LISTEN TO THEIR AUDIENCE
There should be a scale from the Saints Row Reboot to the Sonic Movie to categorise how to handle that shit
*Don’t read my name…😮*
@@whatswiththisnewhandlesthinggod don't remind me of the SR reboot... one of my favorite series man
That was a fake out to draw attention to the movie
You should not be needing an apology from the Internet. Like seriously what is wrong with you? I think you need to put your phone down and get in touch with actual human beings. Anybody who is needing an apology from somebody on a free platform is completely out of touch.
Their goodbye video started with a shot of Watcher Headquarters IN HOLLYWOOD. 🤦🏻♂️
Whoever is managing their money needs to be investigated for embezzlement if they're blowing through all that money so fast :/
The funny thing is, if they had just made a kickstarter or crowdfund and stated, "hey this is how much this show costs to make, please help us raise the money we need for the season and then we'll go do it" with direct promises of what that money was for, they would've easily hit targets, like no question, especially if it was Puppet History or Ghost Files related. Asking people to pay for a nebulous idea including content they don't want was the wrong move when they could've easily focused on direct funding to things they want.
@ZackM-sx7tccreep
@ZackM-sx7tcThats kinda creepy..
@ZackM-sx7tc Brother, as a woman, if you start a sentence off with "Not to be a creep, but", whatever you're saying or typing should stay as an inside thought 😭
wasn't one of the options after subscription being able to vote for which show to revive? from a list of shows that literally died the first time?
You're right. If one of your shows is watching someone eat literal gold maybe people don't want to see that if it means they now have to pay to see the content people want to see.
When Smosh was going down, they literally sold their company in order to provide free entertainment to their fans while still being able to do what they wanted creatively. I think it's frustrating that their first thought was not to get a financial manager, business manager, even a damn media/marketing manager or look within their company to see what they could do but rather impose it on their fans. Saying we're taking away all your content if you don't pay us is wildly horrible marketing strategy to introduce a new product.
Smosh is such a good example. They have way more mouths to feed and much lesser views during that era. They survived without paywalling and now became bigger than ever before.
Because Steven's tesla isnt going to paid itself, or you know...Steven's lets go eat to the most expensive restaurant we can find and make a video of me eating a 1000 dollars hamburger, for the channel of course. Also, who has extra money to hire a financial manager or a business manager? Steven first needs to hire his buddies from back of Buzzfeed to work on his lets eat expensive food show.
the best example I've come across so far. Big props to smosh for not giving up and always trying to keep their fans happy. Now I'm even more bothered by the whole Watcher situation considering what Smosh went through.
I was wondering if they were going through something similar to smosh. Perhaps they already sold watcher and are owned by a scammy company or already have a manager who is taking way more than their fair share(?) That's the only way I can see their maths making sense...
Smosh fucking sucks though
I have to say Watcher handled the situation with a lot of grace. It wasn't a desperate "Please buy our thing", it was a "Oh, we realize some of our supporters might not be able to buy our thing, we're sorry" before promptly changing their tactics for how they went about this new platform.
Lmfao there was no mistake, they knew what they were begging for money and attempted to tone it perfectly to avoid criticism. Millionaires begging longtime subscribers to fund their yacht. You think they didn't know?
I think one of my biggest problems is they introduced these changes in a way that fits the format of “I’m talking to you as a friend and not a customer.”
I feel like they prooooobably knew this might not go over so well, so they had this “month early + ad free” on the back burner. This is a good business decision! When making big changes, it’s good to have the same changes but to a lesser extent just in case people don’t like it.
To then make the business decision into this idea of speaking to you, their FRIENDS, from the couch in plain clothes trying to be comfy and casual and saying we are sooooo sorry we never thought this could happen…. It feels very disingenuous.
At the same time what should they do? Wear formal clothes and do a deep bow?
Cmon friend (person they don't know who is on average a random teenager) give us more money so we can make even more profit. CZcamsrs hate para-social relationships until tax season comes around
gotta love the "Im talking from my heart although its clear Im reading a strategically planned speech" vibe
An apology made out of obligation isn't sincere.
@@IvyHale151wtf would a sincere apology look like then? people like you really confuse me.
@@IvyHale151they don’t owe you anything
@@aaronstevens5325 First off, not doing something scummy like this knowing full well is wrong. Now since it has impacted them negatively they're obligated to apologize. Not because they want to, but because they have to
@@IvyHale151 All apologies are made out of obligations. You're obligated to apologize to the wronged party for whatever you've done to wrong them. Doesn't matter how you feel about the person, it's what's supposed to be done regardless.
Their "Goodbye" video basically described their viewership as negligible and inconsequential. Not what I'd call good marketing. Also, I think them talking about their $250K wedding and honeymoon before crying about needing more money was very ill advised.
Wait who's wedding?👀👀
@@rs-mt6kli think it’s Shane’s? But also steven just got married so it might be that! But both weddings were insanely expensive (no one needs three dresses for one day XD)
Are those three married to each other?!?
@@Chris_Crossno?
@@chloeapples depends on culture, but at least for modern us weddings a lot of brides have 2 dresses or a changeable dress
what ultimately confuses me and I haven't really seen anyone talking about is the cost of creating and managing an entirely new streaming platform, like to operate they need their current staff to dedicate more time to managing it or hiring new staff to solely focus on it or outsourcing to a company. I understand that this way all profits go to them and they don't have to pay an already established streaming platform to host their shows and receive a smaller cut but I honestly don't see how that would cost them more than creating a whole new platform, maybe I'm ill-informed but from the outside I don't get it
it would have made more sense and honestly probably been more lucrative and well received if they just had their episodes go up early on their patreon, they would probably get more people signing up and paying more money at different tiers rather than a solid $5.99 from everyone and wouldn't have the added cost of making an entirely new platform
I love how Ryan just looks scared, Shanes face exudes pure "told you so", and Steven is just barely holding on, watching his dream of even more money crumble before him.
😂😂😂 this is too accurate
Lol this is too accurate
Yeeeep. Steven is the one who's been pushing for it, I'm sure, and now it's all crashing down on him
"obviously we weren't sneaky enough in the way we asked for money, but we'll hit the drawing board and make it less obvious"
That’s literally what I understood from this message. And I don’t know how Charlie didn’t touch upon that.
This
Correct!
@@jaydelicioso Because Charlies is human and as a human, he is sometimes dumb enough to miss details, important as they are.
Oh no, the people providing a service want your money for it. What is this blasphemy?
It sounds like they got greedy, over-played thier hand, and the public as a whole called their Bluff.
Yup
I blame the guy on the left he’s the ceo
@@camjacob8876 they’re all bad can we just stop acting like one of them is better or worse than the other? Again, they’re all bad.
Why are people so butthurt about it though, paramount+, Netflix, Hulu, hbo max all cost money, twitch subs, but they crossed the line by wanting people to pay a monthly subscription for content?
What if they were genuinely sorry? We get it, you like drama. You like it when someone famous goes under because its a guarantee ego booster. But these guys were sorry and generally cares for their fans.
it’s funny that wealthy people always conveniently forget that $6 to most of the middle-lower class is a cheeseburger for lunch and that means a lot to some of us.
Edit: Also it seems like they mismanage their money and asking for more is not the ethical way to fix that issue.
here's my little piece for the "staying relevant to brands"--i went to their live show in 2023, where we were shown the Montana State Prison ghost files episode. we were then told after the episode that because the CZcams episode was sponsored by a certain advertiser, most of the "inappropriate" content that we had just seen at the show would be cut for the CZcams release--and it was. most of these guys' most memorable moments are them being dumbasses and inappropriate while ghost hunting, namely. if most of their ads are causing them to restrict their content like that one episode did, I understand why they wanted to ditch ads and make their own service--to make the content they and their viewers want.
Out of curiosity, what kind of stuff was cut? Because I can’t imagine what they’d be doing there that’s so not safe for CZcams that it would scare off an advertiser. Unless they’re taking dumps on the floor uncensored or calling the ghosts slurs I can’t think of what would turn off an advertiser when true crime channels and such get sponsors.
Especially when I think back to their Buzzfeed stuff- they had a lot more fun but none of it seemed “edgy”
@@averyeml I don't remember the exact bits that were cut because I obviously only saw it once, but I believe one of the jokes and bits that ran through the entire episode was the guys making jokes about Satan's penis. I'm sure there were more, but that's all I remember.
@@lunarlullaby05 gotcha- yeah I get not recalling specific bits but vibes are plenty. I could see that being on the edge depending on the sponsor. I think the guys have some work to do on the back end regarding staff size vs. output but if they can strike a better balance, those advertisers could either be turned down or put up with because they could cut more loose in other videos. I want to see them succeed but I think there’s some bigger issues that they gotta hammer out. I want my ghoul boys back!
@@averyeml I agree. I've been a fan of the guys since s1 of unsolved, so I honestly paid for a sub to their service immediately, but that's only because I'm lucky enough to have a good paying job and not a ton of other things I need to budget for. I put on all of my socials that any of my mutuals could have my password, at least before their apology video. I do think they need to iron out a few more things, but I think the whole thing of them releasing episodes a month earlier than CZcams on their site is a pretty smart move, all things considered.
The funniest thing to me is that their patreon already existed at nearly the same price and we already got content early through it. This whole thing could've been avoided if they just upped the patreon price by one dollar, released ad-free content a month early rather than a day early, and advertised it more on their CZcams channel. And Patreon has a comment section so the community would be more engaged and still get to discuss new episodes as they come out.
True, but through their own website they wouldn't have to share a cut of the money with Patreon
@@chrispalumbo5556 WatcherTV is on Vimeo, which costs $1 per subscriber.
Yeah, but that way they wouldn't get BOTH income streams.
@@chrispalumbo5556 it wasn't their own website. They are paying vimeo. So still giving up a percentage of revenue
Buuut moooom, daaaad they want their own site 👶. Jokes aside, I get they really wanna own their media to the *bone.* But they really don’t NEED too yet. And honestly they can’t yet, the audience doesn’t want that.
Steven recites his lines like he’s squinting while trying to read off of a Wendy’s menu
He took most of the flak for the decision from an audience he probably thought supported him just as much as the other two. The thing is most people didn’t want to blame Shane or Ryan which is probably why.
He felt like he was reciting an official PR statement more than the other two
@@LeMenace1this, but also, he was the one who said “anyone can afford it.” even if they came up with that together, steven said it, which probably allowed people to find a scapegoat to not hate on ryan or shane.
@@cptnjody7and he is also the one that ends up buying 10k lobster for his show. Sorry, he wanted us to pay for his 10k lobster 😂
Most people just accept steven as a part of watcher. Most people are not fans of his work clouding thier channel@@LeMenace1
I like how Charlie has been on CZcams so long that he's basically the world's foremost expert on critiquing CZcams Apologies.
He is well known for his Cr1TiKaL thinking 😎
@@Surannhealz good one😂👏
@@Surannhealz👏😑
There's actually a channel that analyzes and scores CZcamsr apologies! The creator specializes in psych or something
There’s a 10+ hour compilation of him reacting to CZcamsr apologies, it’s beautiful
unironically one of the best youtuber apologies genuinely sincere and admitted wrongs and actually said what 90% of apologies don't say "I'm sorry" solid 8.7/10 apology
Ima be honest, I don’t think I’ve EVER seen an apology THIS strong! They did pretty good
I love how they out Shane in the middle because they know we trusted him the most
His wife's opinions on the matter actually made me trust him less, tbh. I don't think he was as uninvolved as people seem to think.
@@ruralmetalhead omg what opinions? 👀
@@ruralmetalheadmf spill, don't just leave us looking for her Twitter
Yooo tea?? So people still say that?? Either way I want it @@ruralmetalhead
@@RyuKyu.77 She had a little pretentious guilt trip moment on her tumblr implying people who didn't want to pay for WatcherTV didn't want to pay workers livable wages or something along those lines.
The funny part about it is, her and Shane's wedding was apparently in the $250,000 range, and she wore THREE DIFFERENT wedding dresses. In one day. So her post comes of VERY out-of-touch and preachy.
Watcher: *Adds a Paywall to their CZcams channel.*
EA: Look what their doing to imitate a fraction of our power.
Don't translate
ฉันจะสมัครรับข้อมูลใครก็ตามที่สมัครรับข้อมูลฉันและชอบความคิดเห็นนี้.
Didn't ask. My content is far superior and has more value than anything this youtuber has ever produced so get over it!
Crazy how I licked my lips while eating pizza as a twin girl 😘
Think!
I cried alot as a kid because I couldn't use any of my game codes again from the games I bought physically. Literally didn't get to play them just found out I needed a new SD card after installing them then EA NEVER let me use my expensive ass games again.
Their live show made me not trust them at all, it was called Ghost Files Live so we assumed they would research the city they are in and have a little script about the ghost stories of that area and Ryan would read it while Shane joked about, their classic setup. Instead they just.....played a 40 minute youtube video of an episode of ghost files. They did a Q&A after but probably 1/5th of the audience left before that. It was really disappointing.
Wow, that is SO disappointing
The way Shane lowkey has that “thank god it didn’t happen” look lmao
Just sat down to eat, literal God timing
Crazy how I licked my lips while eating pizza as a twin girl 😘
DUUUUDE SAME what are you having?
Same
@@itz_me_aziza_21 nerd
@@itz_me_aziza_21bro what
I still can't get behind "we weren't going to survive, we were going to have to lay off employees and eventually shutter without this pay wall", when they are also expanding by hiring two more, I'm sure expensive, on screen talents.
It seems like it is their own fault. They grew too big too fast and are afraid to make the necessary changes because they don't want to fire anyone. So instead they are making everyone else pay for their mistake.
@@semperaugustus661 not that they grew too fast, they just want everything to be super high quality when thats not what we care about. We care about the personalities not the set of the shows or the animations. they seen to have this idea that more people equals higher quality which isnt true
God forbid they want to grow, huh?
@@niccolom4556 You have to have natural growth. If we take them at their word that the company is bleeding money and on the verge of shuttering and costing everyone their jobs it is an incredibly unwise and frankly selfish move to keep expanding rather then tightening things up and keeping your people employed.
Not only did they hire 2 more on screen talent. They want to bring back the more expensive show of traveling and eating expensive food. Nothing about their announcement said “we need to stay afloat” all it said to me was “I want more”
I always missed the unsolved mystery episodes I didn't even know they had their own channel 😂
bro i know this is an unpopular opinion, but they had no idea how the public would respond when they announced the paywall and they heard the feedback and catered to it positively…. all is forgiven as far as i go
that's bullshit. anyone with half a brain can understand that suddenly putting your content behind a paywall when it's otherwise been free for like 6+ years is obviously not going to go over well
They apologized not because they betrayed their supporters, but got hurt where it counts- financially:(
Crazy how I licked my lips while eating pizza as a twin girl 😘
@@itz_me_aziza_21 bruh why under my comment
Yeah it's just shady greedy people
Ya don't say?
how you know that you baldy
I'm sorry, but the whole situation felt like a fever dream. I mean, Shane "eat the rich" Madej making a CZcams apology over such a topic? Yeah, never in a million years did I see this coming as a long time viewer since Buzzfeed Unsolved
And the rich was sitting on the left.
It’s eat the rich until you’re rich apparently 🫠
@@fangsbrokenrosesaltburn effect
Buzzfeed people doing Buzzfeed things LMAO
14:24 Shane’s expression says a lot 😂 Like someone else said, I imagine he & maybe Ryan had a few “told ya so Stevens” yelled out after
"For free" really pisses me off, it's not free because we are watching ads/brand deals/paying for premium. No one is doing anyone a favor or providing anything for free if it's on CZcams
Their apology feels so corporate and structured to me. Like their voices felt monotone?
Also, you’re almost at 15m🎉🎉
i know exactly what you mean, i was getting that feeling as well especially when steven would talk
It 100% was corporate PR researched apology
they made a severe and continuous lapse in their judgement
They do not expect to be forgiven.
Thankfully it was a one time kind of thing and they fixed it in like two days lol
Exactly they APOLOGIZED for SCHMONEY 🤑💰
nice
lollll omg whose apology video is this from
What gave me the biggest ick was the moral attachment of people’s finances and fair wages (see Sarah’s post). Why is it on the audience to pay fair wages to the employees? Meanwhile Steven drives a Tesla (mentioned in a Watcher podcast), flies out to Korea to eat good food, and let’s not forget how expensive many Dish Granted episodes. Yes, lay-offs suck, but if pay equity is such a priority (as it should), then why add 2 more employees for a new fancy show? Why expand so quickly if it can’t be done sustainably? Another thing of note is that some of the most viewed content seemed not as costly to produce, literally done in a backyard or virtually (Too Many Spirits and Are You Scared?). I was a die-hard Buzzfeed Unsolved fan in my broke college days, and was a die-hard Watcher fan until that goodbye announcement. It honestly feels weird to continue supporting them knowing that their finances are likely being mismanaged to the point of fair wages being at risk
They literally discussed tips on pod watcher a while ago and were agreeing that it shouldn’t be the consumers job to pay servers livable wages. Ironic
Completely agree. Someone nailed it on their video. Steven is money hungry. Ryan is fame and growth hungry and Shane went along with it because he had no choice.
@@Splat-25 see I want to believe shane was against it but like…. Why would his wife make that post then :/
@@livi9052It's possible his wife drank the corporate growth kool aid more than he did. She's a highly influential and highly paid member of that company, too. But it's truly impossible to know anything for sure.
They literally didn't read the room at all. This doesn't sound like a problem that they need to throw more money at. It sounds like a problem with controlling their money outflow.
They're not struggling at all, it is called greed plain & simple.
As someone who is almost finished with their Business Management degree, one of the first things I was taught was to always have an Exit Strategy if you plan on being a business owner. I would ask what they were thinking the whole time they were doing this, but it's now clear they didn't have a sustainable long-term plan.
Saying they would have to lay people off or shut down seems like a real shady tactic. Trying to make the audience feel bad for questioning them.
Shiiii all of us are struggling, I was like join the club.
Or it could just be the truth, if you go into every situation thinking an explanation is just a sympathy garnering tactic then the whole world will seem like a bunch of manipulative cunts.
Good thing it doesn't seem to be working. Most are accepting of the apology but still are asking how the hell they allegedly ended up in such bad shape.
Honestly Im completely turned off by Watcher now, the facade is broken with this sht and that language has caused me to just see these three dudes as greedy corporate faces now. Any of their business problems are completely on them as a business, if they dont make content that the public enjoys or watches, thats on THEM to produce content thats viable. And that wasn’t even a problem with their channel; people genuinely enjoy them! But their poor ass business decisions and “tv quality” obsession with videos lead them t9 this point. If they want to do tv, they should put their asses into hollywood, except they won’t because they’d be at the bottom all over again and they already have a large yt audience. As we have seen throughout the years, youtube IS NOT television programming.
I’m sorry for being so fired up about stupid drama, but I’m actually disgusted with these guys. I used to love watching them; but they’ve became what they were running from. Just Buzzfeed but in different font.
its a common reason believe it or not, bad stuff comes out when something goes wrong and clearly they needed to give a reasonable reason on what they did, its not only for people to feel "bad" for them its also to assure people that they made a mistake due to this "reason" that they gave, if they gave a reason that isnt acceptable they would dig a deeper hole on what they already dug it would be a dumber decision up top a dumb decision. so if you made a dumb decision in the future and dont want to look even dumber dont halfass your reasons
I can't imagine Ryan and Shane's "Ghost Files", "Puppet History" or "Are you Scared?" really costs that much to make. It's 100% Steven's luxurious spending that brought them in this position in the first place.
This!
Ghost Files and anything else that requires travel is insanely expensive to produce.
Of the ventures that would cost a lot more to produce would be Ghost Files if they are traveling around the country and having to bring camera crews along, equipment, rent hotels, buying food, etc, BUT just like Charlie said they make a really good chunk of change through patreon, ads, and merch They should have plenty to cover the costs of Ghost Files. It seems like they need to have an actual accountant or something along the lines to help them budget their money if they are that hurting for cash.
I don’t even fuck with Steven at all idk why he’s involved in watcher
They have 25 people on staff. 25! I don't know how they can justify that with the content they make.
Thanks for clarifying that was a Futurama reference, was about to subscribe right there.
to be honest, I was SO surprised by their decision, I've been following this group since their BuzzFeed days, this really felt out of nowhere... I am glad that as genuine people they replied to their community the right way. They've always been relatable about financial situations, about their dreams and goals creatively, etc. So I don't know if possibly someone hyped them up a LOT blinding them with that excitement.
I'm so glad charlie brought up the fact that their content is super brand friendly, cuz that's like the first thing I thought when they were explaining their original decision. They're former buzzfeed employees, their content is pretty much as brand-friendly as you can get. So to act like getting brand deals was an issue hasn't made sense to me
I could see maybe if they wanted to include more drunk content (idk CZcams's stance on that) or swear more, but yeah, most of their content is perfectly fine for advertisers...
Exactly, it's not like Dropout where they're drawing dongs every other episode and swearing like sailors. There's a need for an independent platform for content that YT will flag, but that never felt like the case for this group.
That's what I thought. I guess you could call some of their topics not suitable for kids and their language isn't clean either, but over all, what's the problem. Or rather, what kind of content did they plan for the future, that couldn't be put on CZcams? What are they planning that could risk their "brand-saveness"?
@@msthecommentator2863 but I have to disagree. They do swear quite often and a lot of the stuff and jokes they make can be “inappropriate” for a younger audience. Especially when doing their true crime content their jokes can get pretty graphic . I am not sure where the family friend/clean comments are coming from. They also have a show where they try to get extremely drunk and often talk about Ryan being a stoner. Maybe they wanted to make more mature content where they don’t have to beat around the bush about things and watch what they speak about. Maybe have a stoner version or too many spirits without getting demonetized or having trouble finding a sponsor. I’m not saying they made the right decision with making their own platform, but saying their content is “clean/family friendly” is not completely true.
It's also like.. completely possible to reach out to companies.
I agree with Charlie in that I appreciate the apology, but it still doesn’t land for me. Shane sounded genuine, Ryan sounded scared, and Steven sounded about as empathetic as an HR manager explaining why you don’t qualify for unemployment after being laid off. Thanks for the “sorry” boys, but you already showed your hand.
Same, they lost me and I followed them since the beginning of their buzzfeed days. They’re doing crisis management now after all the drama.
shane means it, and was probably expecting this response.
if ryan was scared, its probably because it seems like that was part of his Big Dream(tm) and hes seeing that it isnt able to happen the way he thought it was.
steven literally does not give a shit, hes always been in it for the money imo.
@@HeyItsmeImAlex I’m so conflicted about it 😕 Now whenever their videos auto play on my feed I just can’t watch them.
@@madsfiedler3884 same feelings I got from the video. It’s so clear who cares and who doesn’t.
@@ohapplesaucegood, don’t support them. Any employees laid off will surely find a new job and they needn’t be spending their *apparent* low revenue on hundreds of thousands of dollars on weddings.
I think they didn’t put enough thought into the fact that a big part of their audience is international. For example, 6 dollars for them actually are R$30,00 in my country.
Second thing is, most people aren’t going to pay for something they had free access to since the beginning
I'm in the U.S. but this was one of my first thoughts as well. The whole "anyone and everyone can afford" was completely out of touch. It shows ignorance of not only the current cost of living crisis in their own country of residence, but a complete lack of any consideration for their international fans. If Lim is flying all over the world to try expensive food how are they so willfully ignorant of the implications of $6 elsewhere? It's elitist and maddening and I'm not resubscribing.
You hit the nail on the head when you speculated about “some kind of weird mismanagement behind the scenes.”
And now we wait for the video where they find out Steven has been embezzling money
Maybe if his stupid show was cancelled they could run. I like Ryan and Shane but I can't fucking stand him and his shallow show.
Coffeezilla: *Breathes heavily*
steven has gotta go if shane and Ryan are going to have a chance
I've never seen a money hungry and overall shitty steven in my LIFE😭
I legit joked about this possibility to myself earlier but I genuinely would not be surprised. The guy makes all the financial decisions apparently and he’s the CEO who gets the final say. This whole idea has his name written all over it
They are treating their fans the way restaurants treat patrons. Its OUR responsibility to pay the employees enough to survive, not theirs. Its bullshit
This
Only in America buddy
@@mrebear9758move to China
Well we as viewers ARE responsible for paying ALL youtubers. If we dont watch they lose money.
@@thebeastbrothers103Why China?
its like when your neighbor youve known for years suddenly sets a password for the wifi
"My bad bro, can we have your money now?"
pretty much
“Did we do good? Money, please?”
It's so pathetic that people are actually buying it lol
Be honest though, how could they have improved their apology even further? They apologized sincerely, took accountability, and directly fixed pretty much the main issue people had with their move while still trying to save face financially. Are they just irredeemable to yall?
@@Prince-pk4fiI think if they just didn’t claim that they were running out of money it would be way better
Honestly, this is by far the best CZcams apology I’ve ever seen and they handled it so great and they now did it the best compromise they could have come up with, my subscription is now safely secured
As somebody who loved watcher before this happened, I just can’t go back and support them the same way that I used to. The mindset the main characters (Ryan and Shane) have had in the past was the “eat the rich” mentality and then for them to turn around and go “yeah we need more money so we can travel and eat expensive food.” It just left a sour taste that the apology didn’t take out.
It's always like this. There's a reason why every single time humanity tried communism it ended with a tragedy
I'm pretty sure, though I might be wrong, but didn't Shane and Ryan step down from CEO, so it would just be Steven.
You mean to pay employees not vacations
@@mrrockets32they don’t need more money to pay their employees especially since they’re easily supported by ads
Not that big a deal in my opinion, they just made an ill informed decision, didn't hurt anyone, didn't affect anyone, no harm done. Just a stupid mistake.
Here's what Shane Madej's wife said about this issue over on her Tumblr: "I get people don't like to pay for things that were once free, but paying people fairly and making a survivable living while making cool things is HARD." - Sara Rubin
I'm sorry but If you're already having trouble sustaining the money that's coming in from this project then that's an issue in your camp. There's people working two separate 40 hour a week jobs barely making a "survivable living", It just sounds like they are living above their means.
This is the same woman who in the post DIRECTLY BEFORE THIS ONE, showcased that she bought a $115 Tote Bag. Oh, and spent an estimated $55k on the wedding.
But sure, pop off about "survivable" wages
And also why are WE supposed to giving them the paycheck? Shouldn’t that be the company or CZcams? She’s pointing her finger in the wrong direction
@@M4jorToM23more than 55k. 55k was the venue alone
Exactly. I saw a video recently of this girl talking about how her and her husband live on one source of income and her first advice was “don’t buy a new car, get a used one” like yeah as if all of us poors have luxury new Lexus 😂 if they live in California they are definitely living above their means and they feel entitled to it. Girls don’t NEED to get their hair colored and cut by an expensive hair dresser. They don’t need to get their nails done. They don’t need to wear the newest clothes or have expensive handbags. I bring a $30 backpack to work everyday, and I bought it 4 years ago. I don’t eat lunch to save money dawg 😂 sometimes I just drink water to feel full lmao
@@caleighhraeeachieve inner piece and you could survive on nothing but a single drop of dew for a few years. Just like the dragon warrior.
if there is every a tierlist for youtube apologies this one has to be S TIER
They hired way too many people from Buzzfeed and can't afford to pay them all imo
They’re based in LA too, a notoriously expensive place to live and run a business
Their "apology" in a nutshell: "Whoa, we messed up. We didn't think you guys were smart enough to figure out what we were trying to do..."
Pretty much💀
Fr
Pretty much
there is always this kind of people that whatever you do its always look negative to them.
im a long time fans since buzzfeed i know they messed but i accept their apology. we are human being we cant all be perfect, as long as they are owning their mistakes im ready to forgive and move on
did we watch the same video lmao-
Wealth literally rots people's brains. These guys are falling for the same stupid thought process as most greedy business owners: the idea of unlimited growth. They're already making an insane amount of money and yet it's still not enough for them. They could all quit now and never have to work a day in their lives but they're so addicted to capital gains they'll never be satisfied. They're chasing the dragon
totally agree
not to mention im pretty sure all these guys live in LA which just accelerates the wealth brain rot
Line goes up!
Im so glad I’ve always despised money. I get the amount I need and nothing more. I have no desire to accumulate wealth. I want to live a happy life, not a rich one.
@@PossibleBatFacts, preach!
This whole thing with Watcher feels like they're managed by a hedge fund that decided they had to start turning a profit or would lose investments.
They are one of my favorites. Watcher, unsolved mysteries are a must watch for me. Shane and Ryan chemistry together is so great . Am so glad they addressed our concerns and apologized it’s very rare to have influencers/famous figures acknowledge their mistake nowadays . I appreciate them and am happy they fixed it all..