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Are Silver Audiophile Speaker Cables Really Better?
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2020
- We sometimes see audio cable manufacturers tout the usage of exotic metals for their cables (ie. silver, silver-clad, etc). They often state these metals "sound" better but offer no empirical proof to back their claims. We take a look at the conductivity/resistivity of silver and compare it to regular copper to determine if there is any truth to these claims.
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#audiophile #cables #silver
I actually just returned from wakanda to get some vibranium cables. They really made it sound like i was in the movie
J Y yes , but which movie ? All of them? At the same time?
That was great! I've been meaning to get to Wakanda for some vibranium too after travel restrictions are lifted. Lol.
Its called The Placebo Effect. Its a human condition. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
mmmmmhmmm, counting all those electrons, ya electron skinflint!
Are they just as crappy as the movie?
Career metallurgist here. Except for one or two technical nitpiks you are absolutely correct.
There is a list of other factors that are FAR more significant than any distortions (possibly) introduced by cables, including:
(1) quality of the mixing by the record producer - no amount of HiFi can correct a bad mix;
(2) the room acoustics and speaker placement - frequently overlooked but a prerequisite for HiFi;
(3) the recording media format, which determines the quality of the audio information being carried; and
(4) the hearing capability of the listener -- you may have noticed that none of the old guys doing audiophile reviews ever post their most recent audiology test report!
I would love for you to devote a video to the issue of 'oxygen free copper'. The reason is that 'pure' copper (or any other metal) does not exist outside of research laboratories and maybe NASA. There are only degrees of purity, with oxygen being the contaminant of primary concern. There are three alloy designations defined by ASTM/UNS (American Society for Testing of Materials / Unified Numbering System). From Wikipedia:
(1) C10100 - also known as oxygen-free electronic (OFE). This is a 99.99% pure copper with 0.0005% oxygen content. It achieves a minimum 101% IACS conductivity rating. This copper is finished to a final form in a carefully regulated, oxygen-free environment. Silver (Ag) is considered an impurity in the OFE chemical specification. This is also the most expensive of the three grades listed here.
(2) C10200 - also known as oxygen-free (OF). While OF is considered oxygen-free, its conductivity rating is no better than the more common ETP grade below. It has a 0.001% oxygen content, 99.95% purity and minimum 100% IACS conductivity. For the purposes of purity percentage, silver (Ag) content is counted as copper (Cu).
(3) C11000 - also known as electrolytic-tough-pitch (ETP)
In short, if you want purer copper, you have to pay for it, because refining any metal or alloy to higher purity takes more processing and more energy.
Many cable sellers blithely (and probably ignorantly) claim their product is 'OFC' or 'pure' but they never say HOW pure.
How pure is pure enough for audiophiles? Impossible to say; for one thing it depends on other factors in the system, but it is mainly subjective.
Another issue (which personally I think is crazy) is worrying about the power cable running to the amplifier. You can pay thousands for a deluxe cable running from your wall plug to your electronic box. If pure DC from your transformer is so important then why not just insert a small DC generator? It might actually cost less! Ask any old-time welder about the joys of using a DC 'bullet' generator, and he will tell you that none of the expensive high tech inverters of today even come close for operating smoothness.
Please tell me how I can contact you and maybe we can collaborate on these questions.
Cheers, and keep up the good debunking!
but silver gives you a different sound than copper, silver has more top end extension and more refined on the midrange but less on bass, copper has warmer midrange in general
which DC generator do you recommend? I was thinking of getting some interconnects from aliexpress
I soaked my monster cable into a jar of snake oil for 6 months, the soundstage is amazing 😱
Does the midrange sound extra chocolaty?
I heard copper head snake oil has the lowest resistance.
Smooth, but not too sharp ? Excellent layering ? Fantastic definition ? Mine too.
When I built my own interconnects I used silver. This was because I was terminating them with compression screws rather than solder. I figured that silver is less susceptible to oxidation than copper. I would have used silver plated copper if I could have found it. Silver is more expensive than copper to be sure, but in the context of the small amounts required for interconnects it was not much extra in actual dollars.
That's why I'm thinking about silver plated connectors instead of gold plated. Still way less oxidation than copper, but better conductivity than gold.
It really depends on the resolution of the audio system.
Silver's advantage is on high frequency reproduction.
On high resolution systems that strives for realism, accurate reproduction of high frequency and ultra high frequencies that represents the higher order harmonics are vitally important.
This is especially true on high efficiency, plus high resolution systems. For example, State of the Art compression drivers like the JBL D2430K, capable of reproducing above the 20khz, into the 30khz or even 40khz in a 2-way design. You also have high efficiency systems augmented with High efficiency Beryllium Ribbons capable of 120kHz like the TAD PT-R9.
On these systems, it is night and day difference, between a high quality silver cable and copper, even OCC. Of course that depends on cable geometry as well as the Dielectric used. Ideally with individual conductor either spaced out with mostly air being the Dielectric and FEP on contact areas to keep the capacitance as low as possible. We want minimal blurring of the high frequency signals. Dielectric absorption needs to be minimized.
It should be highlighted if the amp is incapable of amplifying such high frequencies then none of this silver makes any difference. For this reason, having an ultra high 1MHz bandwidth amp module like the Goldmund JOB4 is mandatory.
And if we trace the signal reproduction upstream, running a ESS Sabre based oversampling DAC won't help either. Because the main goal of the oversampling in delta-sigma DAC is just to be able to run a less steep filter for less artefacts induced. It has nothing to do with recreating a high resolution waveform that resembles the original analogue signal. For this purpose, we need DAC that are FPGA based that applies spline fitting algorithms or better still, Calculus to generate the additional sampling points for accurate and true to life sound reproduction. Examples of such are Wadia DigiMaster DAC and Exogal Comet. Of course, this assumes that the Nywuist frequency requirement is met, ie. 24bit 192khz.
At this high sampling frequency, clock accuracy is of utmost importance. Hence ensuring femto clock accuracy is most important.
Skin effect plays a very significant role as frequency increases. This is why you see high purity silver plated OCC cables. This is a comprised attempt to have a do-it-all single cable, carrying both the HF and LF. But IMO, on more advanced systems, those would be already running in active crossover mode, so they can run thinner but highly optimise high purity silver for HF and UHF (preferably in ribbon cable), and run much thicker OCC for LF (in various forms of a hyperlitz).
At this stage, it would be very clear that the pasive crossover network is a big no-no, to achieve an ultra high resolution setup. Do a bit of research on the DEQX white paper as it explains the various issues encountered. Active digital crossover is the only logical way forward. Much less issues to overcome. This is the reason why computers are digital, to preserve the absolute signal integrity.
Also forget about Gold plated plugs. If one is serious about blocking oxidation, look for Rhodium plated plugs. It is much more durable and sounds better. Check out the Furutech range. Gold is just too soft and wears out over time.
A lot of words but mostly meaningless. I know the engineers at JBL that design the speakers you mentioned. They use regular 12awg Stranded copper cables. I showed how skin effect works numerous times based on math and measurements. You're reiterating talking points from cable manufacturers, not anything of substance. Designing an audio amplifier with 1Mhz bandwidth is an exercise in futility unless having a high noise floor is your thing.
If you are happy with your beliefs, and enjoy the sonic benefits, then please continue with the approach to build your system. I wish you luck in achieving good sound.
For my system, i have upgraded all my signal wires, mostly digital, to pure silver. There is only one pair of analogue signal from the DAC to monoblock amps, the rest are all digital signal. And silver makes a difference as well in digital. We have spent long hours performing AB double blind testing. And i am running an Active 3-way digital crossover for my JBL Project K2 as well as my second JBL M2 system, with mostly Goldmund components and Wadia DAC with DEQX. Front end is a Esoteric X-01 Limited. I have also help others building full digital crossover setup with Nanodigi and Wadia DAC with JBL 708i. We use silver wiring as well. Everyone, including the local JBL dealer, who heard this setup simply lost for words regarding its superb performance. I recall one commented that, this is beyond real, it is truly in a class beyond realism.. It is better than the real thing! 😊 We have 2kw power (mono blocks) driving the K2 bass and this enables the K2 to completely control the air mass of the entire listening environment. It is a full body experience.
@Damian Hla sounds like a cool set up. I run kimber 8tc in most of my set ups. Love the cable but sounds no better than high stwnd count 10awg. Placebo is at play in most people's perceived differences in cables. Good luck
You made all that up.
Gene knows what really matters in audio and he keeps his priorities straight. Thank you! And here's a lesson I leaned from Gene: if you want no-compromise good sound, get GIANT speakers. Some things just don't change.
Just like drag racing, there is no replacement for displacement.
Size does matter! 🤣
Need the right power to move the driver
@@stevenp9555
V*I*Cos theta for the win!
When people do listening tests between silver and copper it's important to have the same gauge and length. Since silver is expensive, it's often used in smaller gauges, which may account for allot of perceptions and opinions between the two materials. I've seen several audiophile reviewers hold up a 2 meter cable and compare it to a 1 meter cable, they gotta be the same length. Length is a HUGE factor! go as short as you can. Also special thanks to those reviewers for at least trying and sharing their insights with the lengths they had on hand, such asymmetric data is still valuable, and appreciated.
Exactly. "oh silver has better conductivity, we can make it thinner" Sure, if thickness is an issue, but that's not a fair comparison. And the 5% better conductivity can make a difference in super long cables, but again, why have extra cable lying around. A short cable will obviously the best
Plain old 9AWG multi strand LC OFC in single wire config for me. I don’t like to buy-wire. So glad I discovered Audioholics before buying my cables and so is my wallet, they’re perfect. The QED ref. silver plated cables I had before were expensive and over 14 gauge, I always found like I lost midrange and bass with them.
How do you terminate 9agw wire? That size would not even thread into my binding posts.
I always use $20,000 cables with my $30 speakers I got from Craigslist. The sparkling open clean transparent pure crisp airy and transparent detail is worth it.
I get the 250' spools of Monoprice 12 AWG CL2 copper speaker wire at a time for only $97 each with free shipping. I think I've used 1,000' of that stuff by now; love it.
Looks like good value priced stuff! I may buy a roll to diy some cable jewelry.
I tried Silver Once
It seemed Bright
The copper sounded smooth
True and the silver sounds rough in the highs. I like copper.
Gene, Thanks for this vid. My cables of choice are BlueJeans which I have used for years. I like that I can get them in the exact length and different colors for interconnects. My speaker cables are BJ’s white 10 with spades. Spatial M3 Sapphire open baffle loudspeakers. Most of my interconnects, coaxial and toslink are from BlueJeans.
One small correction. Copper is about .18 a troy ounce today, and silver is almost $18 a troy ounce...so silver isn't '90% more expensive than copper' its 10,000% (100x) more expensive. That said, copper is obviously the best choice even though silver is a marginally better conductor. Great video as usual Gene.
Yup, copper is good enough for the task. There is a reason we have copper wire in our walls and not silver.
Yes I know in some places there are alu wires, but that is something that shouldn't exist in the first place.
The place where I can see silver being worth the price is in applications where space is an issue (thinner cables) or where resistance is important (same thickness, less resistance) like in super long cables.
Now alu shouldn't be a cable in the first place. It's much lighter than copper for relatively similar heat transfer. So as cooling material yes, as electrical conductor no.
It gets silly when people use silver wires in digital connections. There is no benefit, it's just ones and zeroes, either the signal gets there or it doesn't.
What would be interesting is silver plated connectors. The non-oxidizing benefits of gold, but much higher conductivity. Or silver plated copper wires. Again, keep the conductivity up, but less oxidization. Okay, the copper core will conduct anyway and won't oxidize with copper's trend to get a dense patina, but who knows.
Can't agree more with audioholics. Save your money, buy copper.
I've been using 10GA zip cord for my stereo setup forever and it sounds perfect. Any true blind triangular-type tests of expensive audio cables have never revealed statistically significant difference with my friends and myself. My setup is B&W Matrix 803 S2 speakers and a custom built low output impedance dual mono power amplifier rated at 300 Watt RMS per channel and better than 0.005% THD.
Just wanted to mention that any audio preference listening shall be done either blindly or over a long period of time to minimize interference of mood and physical fatigue.
You are one of those people that don't hear any differences while listening different cables......!!!!!
@@Jil8840 "Different" cables must means significant different electrical properties, not like prices.
True story. Quite some decades ago a certain performer wanted to be recorded in the absolutely best studio so that performer choose the Mastering Lab in LA. In order to get the performer to record in their studios they had to modify the mixing platforms with silver wiring and switches. That of course created an enormous task and maintenance issue but the change went in and the recording was indeed the "best ever". By how much, that’s anyone's guess.
Who was that performer????
Barbra Streisand - Tag Line “Bitch”
Cool story man!
The consensus I got from reading multiple audiophile forums was to use silver in the digital chain and cooper in the analogue chain.
And what's the theory?
Copper wires with silver banana plugs would be best. Gold connectors just knocks the conductivity down.
Guys..... Forget everything u know about cables. Listen to this.
The other day I got a 4m loop of molten gold. Its enclosed in a titanium housing then covered with thick fabric to contain the heat. The cable has to be separately powered to keep the gold molten of course. But the connections on either side are cooled by Nitrogen.
I plugged the cable in and I kid you not. My speaker grabbed a guitar and started playing it!! Next it grabbed the mic and started signing right from the tweeter!! I now only buy molten gold cables needless to say. My video review will be out soon.
I am using Silver. Nordost. Bought it more of eye candy. Then I’m also using Sommer and did get some tin coated copper.
Difference? Price! There may be some mild difference in sound. Some. Maybe. But I doubt I can pass a blind test. 😬
Just do the blind test if you can. It will prove to anybody (inc yourself) how they're wrong about high-end cables!😉
Using pretty much all Blue Jeans speaker cables and interconnects.
Yes, made in USA.
Blue Jeans resells with a nice profit very basic good quality cables.
good choice, design and quality...
I have been using Audioquest X2 £5 a metre and its superb. I have just received my Canare 4S11 from Blue Jeans 6 metre £30 , cost almost as much for delivery but after watching a lot of your vids I fancied trying it just for fun. I also have Van Den Hul T track which somehow sounds a little uninvolving . My system is Acoustic Signature Thunder with the TA 5000 Tonearm Soundsmith Sussurro cart, Rega Aura phono stage, Luxman L 509X and Harbeth SHL5 Anniversary speakers. Its taken since 1986 to get to this level and over the years I have not been able to tell much difference between speaker cables , I detect some difference in some interconnects but even then nothing to write home about. I wont be spending thousands on speaker cables...sounds awesome as it is. Thanks for a great channel...I am now subscribed.
I have been using 10 gauge ofc for years, very happy with it.
The heavy gauge does not mean good sound. I have tried many 10 gauge speaker cables and they sounded pretty bad.
But what's better for bass, copper or silver? I'm guessing silver is better for the mids and highs.
1990's spool of 12 Gauge Radio Shack Rope Braid Megacable. I have tried others but they make no damn difference to me over this cable. If fact, some expensive 14 Gauge cables are worse!
I think you hit the nail on the head it is all about the resistance, and my thicker rat shack is better than thinner 'audiophile', especially driving my 4ohm speakers.
I would think that silver wire would be a bad choice because of how rapidly it tarnishes. How does one deal with that?
There is nothing you can do about that. That's why most people use oxygen free copper cables that will last a lifetime without any degrading in sound quality.
Mexican silver will tarnish, Italian silver doesn't.
@@pjo1964
Silver is silver and it is subject to tarnishing. "Mexican silver" must be an alloy or perhaps aluminium.
They say "silence is golden". So you need those golden cables for the silence between the tracks. Silver is for ear rings.
My iem cables are silver with clear insulators handbraided by a local guy. Cost was around 40 USD. The only reason I got them was because they match my iem (Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusk). Purely aesthetics
Dude at the hifi store just pitched to me silver HDMI cables and said I’d get much better audio. I just couldn’t believe this. Another guy chimed in and said “I wasn’t a believer either but then I did the A/B test and it’s real”. Gene, they’re blowing smoke, right?
It not just about resistance , and you didn't mention silver plated copper which is quite common and not necessarily much more expensive than copper
He did mention it at 1:45 but was dismissive and didn't get into the reasons why it can be advantageous.
Using 35 year old 12 AWG monster cable that has turned dark green . Could you guys mention if cables such as mine should be replaced . Like the short to the point answer.
I have some just like that - 12g, very old, oxidized green. They look gross - but they still work. I compared them to some new wire and can't tell the difference. I did end up replacing it, but mainly because of how it looked. For my short run (
Yeah i agree...i used OFC speaker cable only until i tried Van Den Hul's "The Clearwater"....it's a 'shotgun' styled OFC cable with pure silver plating, normaly i find silver plated copper very sharp & can give listening fatigue when used with aluminium tweeters..."The Clearwater" is smooth but with lots of micro detail & a very musicaly rythmic sound with a good clean, clear bass & mids...only $250 for a 3m pair with banana plugs fitted....very impressed with the sound..
I got 500' of sheathed 12/2 gauge copper from the electricians at the job I'm working a few months ago. Finally rewired my theater the correct way with my new x6500h and 4 more speakers added to my theater. I'm more than pleased. Opened up my Ultra front stage....WIDE!!!
Anyone that spends thousands on speaker cables will undoubtedly hear a difference.
I find silver speaker cables to be too hot on the higher frequencies, BUT, I run stranded silver/copper alloy interconnects.
Myth placebo effect! Read Audioholics reply about high frequencies in silver cables 👌
nobody asked for this, but from the facts put out in this video, about the only potentially viable place for silver wire would be in a tone arm, less effective mass to accelerate , less capacitance when size is a consideration. I really like this channel's factual presentation.
when I like stuff, I often type something in, to trigger the financial algorithms .
Another great video Gene ! I use Bluejeans Belden copper cable for speaker and most analog and digital connections.
Our family has a cottage in Michigan near the water. The humidity at the lake is hard on stuff. It's surprisingly hard on stereo equipment.
Bluejeans Cable Co. actually welds nice gold plated expanding banana plugs onto Belden brand cable, Welded !
Until I went this way I was using 12 AWG OFC and dual banana plugs, and tightening the set screws annually.
Most people will not have this environmental issue, but I have found Bluejeans to have a good product at a good value.
I have silver digital and analog interconnects from Signal Cable that I bought to sweeten an early DAC.
Just my two cents: silver surface, when aged, is still a good conductor, whereas a copper surface acts more like a dielectric. So, MAYBE there is a small advantage of silver over copper. Could you measure some silver plated and tinned copper cables?
That would make for cables that stay fresh even with age. Not a bad idea. And better conductivity than gold, so why aren't we seeing more silver plated connectors.
Could you do some frequency response analysis for Copper vs Silver? I always hear that silver has better highs and it would be great to see some numbers come out about it.
Just plug and listen.. .this is hifi audio not rocket science... silver can add some brightness to your system if you find it abit muddy and non musical, highs can benefit no doubt but I always always recommend trying first, everyhing makes a difference.
He's done analysis.
It shows that the high frequency diminishes or increases in correlation with decrease or increase of resistance. The tweeter has no knowledge of whether or not the voltage was sent through silver or copper.
Hello Gene, I am running special cables made from UFO technology obtained directly from Roswell. They were designed by Dr Spock and powered by a flux capacitor. Hope you enjoy the humor. I think I will stick to cables by Blue Jeans. They have been outstanding.
The Roswell UFO was made of ali -foil it was widely reported in the Press :)
Yes, @davidbaxter684, Blue Jeans Cables are very good! I've got more than a couple of connections to my hi fi audio system.
I just use standard 12 gauge copper cabling in my system but I did choose one with a nice flexible jacket so I can route the cable nicely for domestic acceptability and so it won't break off the terminals on the amp or speakers. Tried some loaner cables from the dealer several years ago but couldn't hear any differences so stick with what I have.
I love iron cables, the induced magnetic current improves my bass by a lot, no snake oil guys. 🤣
Pedapudi Vishnuram I love my iron cables. Z platinum status
I've once tried Audioquest Sydney interconnects (170 euro in Germoney). It has a lot of crazy features and silver plated purple copper terminations and what not. Although it gave me more clarity and details in the upper frequencies, the sound had notably less bass than my old Oehlbach NF-1 Master interconnects (40 euro) so i send them back. Can anyone pls explain why?
I use Kondo /Japan silver cables for speaker connection and interconnects. Very happy with them. Gorgeous sound.
Get a set of silver cables and a set of copper cables and do a a/b comparison you will most defiantly hear a difference. whether or not you like the change is personal preference.
Gene, good to see, and hear you are now recovered, and doing well. On this topic of speaker wire, I recently made a purchase of KnuKonceptz Kord Kable 14 Gauge copper speaker wire of 50 feet in length. It is 100% pure copper of 189 strands. I bought this 50 ft. length of oxygen-free copper cable, 14 gauge thickness is blue-coloured from the Canadian Amazon, and delivery was much faster than I thought.
This lecture, demonstration was excellent, Gene. I heard that silver speaker wire has the superior conductivity, but the result whether it is very small, or clearly apparent - but minimal, anyhow - cannot be completely justified. Henceforth, justification is because of what you have thoroughly explained because of an immensely high price. Thank you for another very clear, practical presentation on cable connections.
A friend gave me some of the blue Kord from KnuKonceptz. I think it's quite good.
Best video about audio cables, short and very informative for me being not a technical person who loves anything about audio. New subscriber here.
I looked into silver cables and I would buy some if they were priced somewhat near the spot price of silver. To me, two six foot lengths of 12 ga wire couldn't possibly weigh more than 5-10 oz ($125-$250 worth of silver). Therefore, if silver cables cost around $300-$500, I would buy them for the novelty and to add more precious metal to my collection. But costing over $5,000, no way. Those companies are gouging the price way beyond a reasonable profit margin.
Hi Gene, I'm using a mil spec 10ga Teflon coated with silver plated copper strands which I sourced some forty-odd years ago! It's the real deal. I twisted them into pairs using a power drill. This is not an alloy. An alloy is when the metals are blended. This is strands of pure copper core with pure silver plated on the outside. It does have the effect of reducing the high frequency resistance (in reference to skin effect) over pure copper, everything else the same. Not that I'm claiming "I can hear it" because I don't know. I was just covering my bases.
I then tri-wired and kept each driver range electrically isolated from the amp terminals on.
I believe we can simplify the discussion by introducing the concept of "the equivalent circuit". If we measure the equivalent circuit of the wire runs, the speaker input from the terminals onward, and the amplifier output (which in many cases we can assume a zero impedance source, at least to first order), we can model the behavior and isolate the contribution of aberations introduced by the wire runs.
I was coming on in the heyday of the crazy wire scams. I see they're still going but I've got boxes of audio magazine from the seventies with some advertisements of some pretty out-there stuff. It just goes to show, some things are timeless, like the old saying requoted throughout the history of our nation, "nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people".
Spent about 65k so far on my movie room and according to the components I have, they recommended audioquest cables from power cables to speaker cables, cost me a fortune and their points was silver much better and not to use cables coming with my components. Everything sounds great but I don't think It would have been noticeable if I used other cheaper decent brand please let me know if you have any recommendations thank you i love your reviews big fan
You got tricked conned into buying very expensive cables 🤦🏾♂️ doing proper research and comparing many brands big and small you can get very good quality cables for much cheaper than the big rip off brands!
I recently found some quality silver cables (to be more technical they are 6N Pure Silver XLR Balanced Cable Professional HiFi Audio Interconnect Line Carbon Fiber Plug). I know they probably don't make much of a difference because they are XLR but 1 meter was cheaper than a 1ft Audioquest OFC cables, which are overpriced. For 100 bucks a pair they were well worth it.
I also got some sterling silver RCA interconnects and those make a bigger difference but that is more about balanced vs unbalanced. While 200 bucks it has a 18AWG single sterling conductor that was taken to a jewelry store to verify purity of the metal and it was what was advertised so the price alone is pretty close to the materials. They do make a difference, more than the XLR cables.
Silver cables tend to be more bright which is why you see some silver capper mixtures. To bring some warmth with the copper while still having some silver characteristics like vocals are just better with silver cables.
Also, for IEMs, silver cables have less resistance. I can't explain. It but the stock cable for my Monarch MKII's is not loud. Switching it out for a pladdium silver cables almost doubled the vole in output. At my ost a cable should alter the sound signature slightly but my best guess is impedance seems to matter more in IEMs, especially harder to drive ones more than speakers.
I use 12 AWG stranded copper for speaker wire. It’s cheap and works great.
Kimber Kable silver is worth every penny! The sound is WAY more smooth...
Doubt that would pass a double blind test. They're no better than copper lollll. You got robbed.
Would this also apply to hdmi cables like the ones from Audioquest? They sell these called “long grain copper” conductors cables for $80/10ft. Then they sell these other ones that have 0.5% silver for it’s conductors which they promise “better performance” for $140/10ft
Yes complete scam. HDMI cables either pass or fail to pass the signal. There is no in-between.
Ive quoted you and your site a few times when in High Street Audio Stores in the UK. We seem to have less and less good Audio Shops in the UK anymore : ( Mainly Chain stores with normal Sales guys. As soon as any of them try their Sales Pitch nonsense with me Im all over it lol
I use tin plated OFC (Supra classic). Just like regular OFC but connections won’t corrode. Multiple thin strands, all strands individually plated. Not too expensive. I guess tin plating is cheaper than silver plating for reasons.
Supra ply 3.4 is one of the worst speaker cables i have ever used. Muddy sound, laid back presentation and very bad stereo image.
Interesting video.
Personally, I have cables of different types. One is actually pure silver (a 1m XLR between my DAC and amplifier), while my speaker cables are silver plated OCC copper and my power cables are OFC copper. I do perceive that they make some audible difference compared to the default cables. Either way, they look beautiful.
Not just about the metal, its also about the covering.
Thanks for the video Gene. I used to think cables does not matter when I tried canare 4s11 and mogami 3104. I replace the cables of the klipsch crossover and it looks like 16g silver or maybe silver coated copper with 12g canare and the sound was much fuller now. I did on the klipsch spl150 and it made a difference.
I made all my speaker cables with canare 4s11, I’m happy with them and it’s cheap too.
HI Gene, I've seen your specs/guidelines for speakers cables but cant seem to find anything for interconnects on both the website and CZcams channel. My current interconnects have the following specs and I'm not sure how it compares. Capacitance: 12.8 pF/ft, Inductance: 0.08 uH/ft, Dielectric Constant: 1.38, Impedance: 75 Ohms. My current interconnects are balanced, which is the only option for my system. do you have recommendation for balanced interconnects? any help would be greatly appreciated. thanks
Marketing hype is misleading and about producing sales. The reality of wire does matter. Silver is a better conductor, but only marginally. Silver is impractical as a conductor from an economic standpoint, however as a plating for copper it is more acceptable. When used in Mil spec wire, it provides an increase in reliability by aiding the copper in doing it’s job. That is my understanding. In avionics and missile electronics, reliability is key to mission success. I don’t pretend to know more than you or scientists and engineers. What I do know is the wire chosen for use in military applications also works for use in audio. I have replaced point to point wiring in more than a few tube and solid state amplifiers. In this application, this wire has opened up the sound of them in every application. This is not to say it will work in speaker wire, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt. I’m not a fan of marketing hype or misleading ads. But if someone wants to buy a wire to appease their own mind, let them. I’m not! Mil spec wire uses many strands of silver plated copper wire insulated with Teflon. This wire has been used for decades with great reliability and performance. Being one who has been in the military and served in both missile and aviation electronics, I can attest to this wire and it’s ability. I haven’t tried it in a speaker wire application, but I know it would be interesting to find out. I will tell you that I tried out a silver litz headphone replacement cables for both my Sennheiser HD600 and HD700 headphones. These cables allowed their already superb transparency and detail resolution to be enhanced. Does this constitute snake oil treatment. Not likely. In the two years of proven performance, I am convinced that this was not a snake oil purchase. I’m sure that some would not agree, but in my experience and in this instance, the lower operational parameters of this cable as opposed to speaker cables which operate at a higher power, actually made a difference. I am convinced that speaker cables made of silver conductors may be marginally better, I will not be buying them. I would like to see Kimber Cable manufacture their speaker cables utilizing mil spec silver plated multi stranded Teflon insulated wire. I would like to see if it made a difference. It does in the rewiring of audio gear’s internal wiring. I did this type of point to point wiring change in my own gear and it really made an eye opening change to the openness and transparency of the sound produced. Some stuff is snake oil and some is not. In my experience, I experimented with my own gear first to check it out and it worked. The quality of internal wiring of most gear is just what it is when you build on a price point basis. Gear built this way is in need of modification to yield it’s true potential and only through experimentation is this found out. The truth is in the end product and in my case, this has been proven out. Whether your gear would benefit from it, depends on the quality and design of your gear. There are limits as to what gear can achieve. Some are up to it and some would be a waste of time. It is up to the gear and the design of that gear. Poor design or component parts would not benefit from any modification of wire in that instance. You cannot make a silk purse from a sow’s ear. You have to have potential from the get go. Some gear warrants modification while other gear does not.
I have 14awg micca copper cables and 12awg Media Bridge gold plated copper cables. The more expensive better measuring 12awg is actually in my secondary system right now and the Micca is in my main system. I had switched things around about six months ago and I haven't even bothered to switch them back because I can't hear any difference between the two. My main system speakers are very revealing Revel Performa3 F208's too, and I still think they sound the same? Maybe I'm just lucky and I don't have supersonic hearing, lol. I'd hate to have to spend a grand on cables to enjoy the my five thousand dollar speakers 😁!
For my under 15 foot room I use 9 AWG OCC, for my 1 m length I use pure silver in 5 twisted runs of 22 AWG. I build them myself, and they cost me about $285 and $260 a pair respectively with gold plated termination (screw-in switchable between spade and banana).
The gold plating essentially defeats the purpose of having silver and copper. Just do pure silver or pure copper
@@lilflip9611 As an electrical engineer for almost 45 years who does a fair amount of DOE research related projects, I beg to differ. Not sure what specifically you mean in saying gold "defeats the purpose of having silver and copper". (i.e. what exactly is "defeating" what "purpose" and how?) Gold's atomic structure makes it effectively immune to oxidation (i.e. "tarnish", "rust", etc). That is the purpose of gold plating, or solid gold usage, as we do for various military, advanced digital communications and other applications, since oxidation affects the conductivity and related usage due to valance band completion. In fact, copper is prone to three stages of oxidation even at low temperatures, where it moves from copper oxide, to cupric sulfide and then through to copper carbonate, with progressively worse signal transfer, conductance and transconductance properties at each stage. Silver obviously oxidizes as well. In fact, SO2 can be especially problematic at "low" voltages, where it can very effectively make circuits degrade to the point of failure. For high quality music work such as MHz sampled DSD, and network interoperability of same signals over protocols like Ravenna, gold is often used in the higher-end device contacts for that reason.
@@amdenis very interesting! I didn't realize you were ah expert. I guarantee that you know more about this than I haha. I said defeats the purpose because I did an experiment comparing bare silver wire to different interconnects (gold, copper, silver etc). I found that the bare silver was the most detailed / sounded the best. Could always be placebo, I guess you never know.
@@lilflip9611 sadly, most “audiophile” and “pro sound” vendors take complete advantage of our collective lack of knowledge and make vast sums of ill-gotten gains off of that fact. However, you can actually know whether these things “work” by recording the same source material with/without them, and simply correct for any gain difference, flip one 180 degrees out of phase and sum the two. If anything remains, you have something beyond the placebo effect.
So I've often wondered about lil flip comment too. And i get it silver and Cooper will has corrosive properties, but that aside for a second. If you have a copper or silver cable, then use a gold or gold platted connector does the gold connector bottle neck the signal. Like the chart Gene shows in this video using 14g as a demonstration he shows gold about 30% lower conductivity than copper or silver. So I'm wondering how can the signal pass thru the same way it was prior to the connector. I think that's where I always get hung up on some of the cable arguments
Since wood gives me warmth in the fire place, I decided to go with wooden speaker cables, just for that warm sound.
I don't know if it sounds nice yet since I seem to have a problem. You see, since I installed my wooden cables I have no sound anymore. I wonder what the cause is. I will just start by replacing my 230V breaker with an audiophile fuse and work my way down the chain until I find the cause of my problem.
u should've gone for silver plated wooden cable lol
what about silver plated copper for mains power cables? does that change the sound ?
I use Siltech cables, one of the finest audiophile cables on the market.
I bought special customize cables stranded with human hair. The human hair being used is about 4 feet and is blonde in case you're interested. I tried brunette but that just didn't sound right. It's stranded like a braid I guess and coated with rubber shielding
amazon basics, 99.9 pure copper. 13 bucks a pop. very happy with the detail and resolution. lol.
Oxy free copper. Works fine.
I use 750 MCM THHN cables myself. Compressing banana plugs on them is a bit tricky, but man, is it worth it.
LOL! I'm guessing most of the folks that watched this video don't know that 750 MCM is thicker than a garden hose!
Golden plated toslink. I want a video about those :D
Yeaah, comparing to the plastic ones gold doesn't oxidize, oh wait!
Is there any other way??? 🤣
nothing wrong with gold plated toslink as long as they're coaxial toslink.
My cables are made of plutonium. The radioactivity improves the fidelity immensely. The highs are now more sparkly and the lows now go down to -5 Hz. ;o)
You talk like it is just the AC resistance that matters, if it only was that easy - but it is not. For many years I were a total non-believer in cables, and we made a test (4 people) with
high purity copper with silver strands, compared to my low resistance Argon flat copper cables, both sets were exactly 2 x 4 meters length.
The sound stage totally collapsed when using the Argon cables. Just a month ago I tried again with some much wider copper foil flat cables - they really sounded like crap.
I have tried with common car audio standard cables in many different gauges, and from a point they got worse the thicker the cable became. Actually copper the clad alu cables
were not that bad, but they quickly brakes.
For many years my standard LS cable has been a medium priced Van den Hull cable, for about $15/m. That is very balanced and it looks good too.
For fun I have just ordered a set of 2 x 2.5 m OCC (99.9999%) silver coated copper cables to try out.
Until recently I didn´t believe in sound changes for power cables, but got convinced in a test with 5 different cables. But to my amusement I liked the cheapest screened standard
cable the best (about $25)🙂
Every metal oxidizes, some oxides are conductive, some are not.
Now that's interesting, and also hard to believe. Can you say more?
If you can't hear the difference buy whichever is less expensive.
I hear ya, via reasonably priced OFC. Yep, my Buddy owned a HiFi Shop, I watched him Sale Ultra Expensive Cable to people that could HEAR the DIFFERENCE(???). Thing was, he was using the old Black and Brown Kimber Cable for all of his presentation! Loved it when these so called Audiophiles could hear the Difference and the Switching box never changed. Same Wire less than a 5 second to flip a switch. I encourage those the Pride themselves of throwing around BiG Expensive Brand Names, to continue Buying that $400-4000. Pair of Cable. I only buy, what I can HEAR! If Amp (a) sounds beautiful, with a slight warmth to it, I'll buy it. If it sound like COLD and harsh, I won't ... simple. But everything must be pleasing to the ears. I'm happy with my Old Kimber Cable & some of my New OFC speaker wires. I haven't yet heard anything better yet, . on MY SYSTEM. If the Seller is so hot to Sale you some Snake-Oil Cables, see if he'll let you try them on YOUR SYSTEM at home(?), with a 100% REFUND- RETURN! I think you'll hear the old, well , huh, I can't.... you know the drill! Spend that MONEY people, you buying Advertising .... My ears tell the truth, not a Oscilloscope!
I knew the answer was no before I listened, but nice to see you brought the facts. No one confirms the expression
"nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people" like audiophiles.
My cables fell down from space.... who knows, probably from another planet
Never seen advanced cabling like that before, so much better than any material we have here on earth....
Thank you my alien brothers & sisters for the cable 🙏
whats the point of the cable type when the end is gold plated ? wouldn't that just increase the resistence at the end point ?
We had the same thought! The amp terminals and speaker terminals reduce conductivity of whatever wire is between them. I suspect that an amp gold plated terminal reduces conductivity from the amp which then flows through a wire and suffers further conductance reduction as it hits the gold plated speaker terminal. Wireless high bitrate amp/speaker connectivity is probably the way to go?
Just curious, I've wondered if silver plated aluminum would be beneficial for a high efficiency voice coil, as you could have reduced resistance and mass (of course this would be a balance between core and plating thickness. I'd appreciate any good links on the topic at I didn't find many.
Cheers.
Interesting idea.
Alu is much lighter than copper, but loses less conductivity (both heat and electric) than weight, silver is conductive and stays clean, gold stays clean, iron survives physical loads.
Copper is somewhere inbetween, great electric and heat conductivity, flexible, but heavy.
All of them have their use in different tasks.
Thickest oxygen free copper cable I can afford
Exactly
Same, usually 4mm2 ofc cable
Yeah and as short run as possible
@@guillaumeSONY diameter of my cables says 4,4mm so that should be good right?
Even that is overkill. For 8 ohm speakers and any run less that 35 feet, anything more than 14g is overkill - and that's still conservative. And that's from a chart that Gene himself published.
Do pure silver iem cables look prettier than plated?
I was going to buy silver speaker wire, but I don't have enough gold! Or silver for that matter. All kidding aside I use a good quality copper speaker wire
I'm no expert but considering the high cost of gold connectors, just twist your RCA connectors a quarter turn back and forth a few times every once and a while or clean them with contact cleaner about once a year.
You're covered.
Would the decrease in five percent thickness of silver stranded speaker cable that would be equivalent in resistance to a 5% thicker copper strand, decrease inductance?
Not that it would matter much if any.
I found silver to introduce a fatiguing fizz to the sound....I termed the phrase"like frying a steak" when listening to audio systems at a friend of mines audio outlet.Copper cannot be matched,as it lets through a wonderful honey textured sound and gets rid of the electronic residue that is responsible for "listener fatigue"..Do not be fooled by the sales pitch.
Paul Mack I'm presuming your friend used silver plated copper rcas or a silver plated power cable?
In my experience I've found silver plated rcas and silver plated power cables gives off a mish mash of sound. I much prefer and use pure copper rcas and pure copper power cables in my HiFi system.
Though pure silver rcas and pure silver power cables (good quality ones not sub par ones) do sound good as well. I do use silver plated copper only for my iec power cable contacts and the plug ends, it just gives a bit more detail and clarity to the sound 🎶
Silver cables will set you back a few quid.
I made some with Sterling silver as an experiment. Sounded OK.
I use kimber PBJ mainly.
I use Blue Jeans Cable Twelve White: www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm
I like the white since my baseboards are white and it blends in. If you don’t care about color the Belden 5000UE is cheaper but has a gray jacket. Both are in-wall rated as well.
I use amazon 12gauge copper on mine.
I will say I tried some old silver cable I had in my garage and I had to turn the treble down as it was so bright and harsh so it did seem to open up the mid and top end. Put the copper back and needed to turn the treble up again. So it did do something noticeable.
And that was a double blind test that gave you those results?
Frank Pratt I knew what I was adding I had the treble up max on the amp, swooped cables and even the mrs said that sounds awful, sounded like the tweeters were going to explode as was so tinny sounding and harsh, turned them down to 4 from 10 and sounded fine, put copper back and needed more treble again as sounded rather flat.
There are people making jokes about this and I get it. It’s such a croc. I don’t know why silver plated high strand count copper wire is used in aviation, medical electronics. It’s basically mil spec wire used in satellites, and other critical circuitry where reliability and ability to handle things like g forces, physical and mechanical stresses and thermal inversions. Something like that might make a decent cable, but I doubt if many people are interested in making their own. I’ve used mil spec wire to replace mediocre wire in tube amps. It didn’t hurt it as the wire it was replaced with was 18 gauge as opposed to the 24 to 30 gauge wire used by the manufacture. Short pieces of this wire are common on eBay. It’s leftovers from military and commercial contractors doing government work and commercial aviation. Since I worked on avionics equipment I can attest to the reliability of this wire. Whether it brings out chocolaty notes, I couldn’t say. High strand count wire is easier to steer and bend when doing this work. It is rewarding and even fun. Whether it makes a drastic difference is not for me to say. It will increase the current flow by virtue of it’s increased cross sectional area. What effects after the fact is above my pay grade. I do know that this wire has to endure changes and unpleasantness of a high value. If it’s good enough for an airplane, it outta be good enough for audio. What’s your thoughts Gene?
“Keep listening” but no copper vs silver listening test?
Keep listening to the “measurements are superior” argument (although we obviously don’t know how to measure everything)?
I get the science side of the argument - but there are audible differences in cables, amplifiers, etc. that measure the same.
There is certainly a “conspiracy“ by many to make money - but that is necessity. Personally, I’m glad there are innovators.
if i cut two pieces of wood 300mm long would they measure the same ?
Measurement is everything!!
I use silver plated, oxygen free, copper stranded cable. Why? Well, chiefly because it is what the manufacturer of my speakers recommended and to a real world audiophile like me, it’s affordable. If I were to compare speaker cables in a blind listening test, would I notice a difference? Probably not.
All of these cables work very well, really clean and natural sound. I am particularly impressed with the Studio Acoustic that I purchased from Bunnings hardware which IMO may be a silicon dielectric (not sure). The upgrade in sound quality for the PA was like night and day.All of these cables work very well, really clean and natural sound. I am particularly impressed with the Studio Acoustic that I purchased from Bunnings hardware which IMO may be a silicon dielectric (not sure). The upgrade in sound quality for the PA was like night and day as previously it had been quite problematic and unnatural sounding. Now we have had comments like "Wow a church that is actually doing true sound reinforcement"
I use OFC copper speaker cables and interconnects throughout. It's a personal choice thing.. as I tried some silver cables and inters which did have an effect on the upper frequencies ... but were not to my personal taste...so changed back.
I made my own cables. Used 12 gauge because my length is only about 5 feet with 100 watts. Banana plugs with a braided sleeve. They work and look great.
What about nickel plated copper?
Many thanks for presenting facts in such a professional way! I have seen many and at the moment you are the most thrustworthy source for audio learning.
Would like to know what about Nickel wire cable
Keep doing outtakes at the end; those are always great! xD
I’ve read that silver treats the High frequencies differently. Not sure if it’s the skin effect or not. I’ve had good luck with 14 gauge OCC copper cables from SKW
Don't believe everything you read. There are no "high frequencies " in Audio where skin effect is an issue of concern.
In 2023 it has been proved/tested in the Lab by a Canadian expert it showed that SKW cables from China were not OCC. It was confirmed by Ana(dia)log CZcamsr as well...
@@didioentoro7575 Yes, I’ve seen his videos on those cables including all the back-and-forth ones. They’re pretty and work as well as my old lamp cord :)