I’ve switched back to Windows... again
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Linus: Pop OS! didn't work because you didn't update
Luke: Mint didn't work because you DID update
CHRIS!!!
Me with NixOS:
I can update/rollback quickly and with ease whenever I feel like :D
Chris: hold my beer...
You have to find that Zen place between updating and not-updating, where everything is at balance. That is the Linux path my young padawan!
That feels like damned if you do, damned if you dont situation there lol
What I take away from the whole LTT Linux Saga is that both Linus and Luke would really, really like for Linux to reach a point so that they can use it as their "daily driver" OS.
This segment reminds me of suckless' [a developer community decently popular among Linux users] motto:
"All software sucks, ours just sucks less"
@@PixLgams Well, yea, it's damn near impossible to have something that doesn't suck sometimes. It's a wonder that Linux even gets anything done given the amount of different things that have to work together.
We all wanted that at some point but it's just not worth the hustle. Win is the only way to go if need to get work done and be also able to enjoy and explore vast 3d worlds 😜
@@PixLgams Linux sucks most 😅
@@ulfseidl1216 "Getting work done" is arguable. I work as a programmer so Linux is my obvious go-to for all the terminal tools, automatability and the excellent manpage system.
To steer the conversation away from mere tribalism though, I often like to compare Linux to macOS rather than Windows for market comparisons like this. I have not had any hands-on experiece with the system yet but judging from common memes (and the fact that at least officially macOS is kinda tied to it's hardware), I'd say it may be better or worse than Linux for gaming, but that the main problem in terms of gaming is simply that neither are Windows so workarounds will have to inevitably be made (I'm gonna count virtualization as a workaround here). I hope the Steam deck will be seen as a console-like platform for developers, simply with a software stack of common Linux interfaces (e.g. X11, Vulkan, libinput) so that we'll eventually see more industry-grade native Linux gaming.
It doesn't have to be like Windows gaming, but much like Valve I wanna get away from Windows as a gaming platform because I simply prefer using Linux for work and don't want to keep switching just for that one thing; as of right now my Windows system at home is essentially a console: I only boot it for gaming.
The thing that is frustrating about Linux is that sometimes I get an absolutely flawless experience and everything works great, but then other times absolutely everything falls apart. Ubuntu has gone down the toilet over the last several years, and updates for most distros is just gambling.
I will say, setting up a restore utility like Timeshift has absolutely saved me pain and suffering at times.
I guess whenever the perpetually-next-year "year of the linux desktop" actually comes, it still won't have come until Debian picks up the improvements a couple years later.
One way to eliminate this "update = gamble" problem is using an enterprise (or enterprise derivative) Distro. Something like RedHat, CentOS, Suse, OpenSuse... But one must use the versioned one, not the rolling release.
Yes, You will loose all the bleeding edge. Yes, You will not get the most recent kernel. Yes, some applications (Firefox comes to mind) will be on LTS version - so You WILL lagg behind the "newest and greatest". But
Your system will NOT give up the ghost on random updates. It WILL keep working, in the most boring way.
And that's the way I like it. I work on my computer, I don't have the luxury of just wasting time fixing it now and then.
@Shea Martin Well I guess my comment also got removed. Guess I'll rehash what I tried to say.
It really is a Linux problem, or more specifically an open source problem. Even though you say "updates aren't absolutely necessary", they really are necessary. I also want newer versions of my apps. Updating itself is not the problem. That's really just an excuse.
The actual problem is that distros are a collection of packages from many different developers. Derivative works tend to suffer from all the upstream problems. When Ubuntu breaks something, now many distros are paying the price because they use it as a base and they have to clean up the mess.
Desktop environments are also separate. There have been many times where GNOME updates and breaks everything for anybody not using the most pure stock GNOME.
Sometimes just trying to install something leaves you in dependency hell.
I have never done a Windows update that has nuked my system and dropped me into command prompt leaving me to figure it out, nor have I tried to install something on Windows and I get stuck in dependency hell.
Restore points and backups are nice and all, but these should be last resorts, not something I have to deal with frequently.
@@sysbofh I mean, that's great that these exist. But I could just use Windows and have up-to-date software and never worry that my desktop will get nuked and I'm going to be dropped into a command prompt, or get stuck in dependency hell. It's not even about bleeding edge.
The problem is that derivative distros inherit the problems from their bases and software in general inherits problems from their dependencies and as a developer I have almost no control over the versions of packages that an end-user has access to for whatever distro they're using outside of containers/runtimes like flatpaks and such.
@@Spirrwell Well, I ditched Windows about 10 years ago. Did it when the prospect of booting Windows starting to get on my nerves.
Don't get me wrong: to each its own. If You feel better with Windows, go for it.
Dependency hell is, well, a hell of a thing. But there is one way around 99% of it: just send all the needed libraries with your software. Yes, it will get bigger - but will solve dependency hell too.
No, it won't clash with system libraries: You just put everything needed under your software install directory.
Think about: games already do this - they come with everything AND the kitchen sink.
Of course, if You NEED the latest version - and the developer don't have one package for You, then it's a problem.
Linus impersonating microsoft calling intel is G O L D
Linus: I'm not a Microsoft simp
Also Linus: Mocks Microsoft proving he's not a Microsoft simp.
PRICELESS!
Yes
I read as 'Minecraft' for some reason.
It's solid gold ;)
Just like the Pentium
Luke makes one of the best points to counter critics: at some point you just want to get work done.
This is a sentiment that I have a LOT, but ironically the least on Linux, my daily driver. I have this problem the most for software updates that my iPhone or Windows PC want to do for me just when I need to get things done quickly. Users don't want to install or troubleshoot a printer the evening before they need to produce an important document; they just want to hit "Print" and be done with it. Neither do I think it's reasonable to spend days getting any kind of system up and running.
this is why i have my windows update off, unfortunately. And the most bizarre part is: stuff still gets messed up somehow. Lately, i'm unable to launch nvidia control panel and intel graphics configurator because windows software protection service has decided to crap out, dragging down just about all of the UWPs. Same with my asus screenpad, now it's just a weird second screen, no cool functionality. I passionately hate UWPs, it's an untinkerable piece of shit.
What I don't understand is: Luke says he had work to do, but then installed Windows, which both say takes a lot of time in itself.
Admittedly, it has been quite some time since I've used Mint or Ubuntu, but I find that even if something breaks on my Arch laptop during an update, I find a solution in no more than half an hour.
What i've learn from their video is if people want to use 'their not so used to other OS' they should do dual boot. Windows and other linux distros. If something happens they can quickly turn into the os that works, then fixed it later for the problems. They shouldn't 100% migrate into a new os until they get to solved everything. Idk people out there that uses linux other than youtubers but i saw them always using dual boot as a backup in case something happens.
@@bele13 yes installing windows takes time but in windows sure it will works while in linux there is no confirmation that it will works. Not to mention there is a way to fix it but sometimes people wasted too many hours on how to fix it until they found it it's just a simple solution. Frustrations after frustrations makes people exhausted and they just stop using it entirely. as i said they should do dual boot os to temporarily avoid the problems.
@@oyen9476 not everyone has the same experience ... no matter what linux distro i use i still get usable everything from the get go ... while windows ... fuck windows
Luke should go dual-booting,so he have backup windows without installing it every time linux does something unfixable in 5 minutes
I did that for a while, years back. Then it dawned on me I never had to boot into Linux to do something I couldn't do in Windows, but I did have to boot into Windows to get around issues in Linux. There might come a time when I care enough about privacy and freedom (in the RMS sense) to switch, but having used Linux off and on since the mid 90s I suspect I won't live long enough for it to happen.
@@mascot4950 I was about to reply that this is what happens. They find something annoying that takes a bit too much time to fix when it's an easy task in windows. Then they get a piece of hardware that requires a driver to be compiled and that requires installing all your source material and you get into troubleshooting the make file.. and you say f it.. I'm just gonna reboot into windows to do this.. it worked when I plugged it in with windows... and slowly, you end up back in the windows boot more and more... and you end up never using your linux install, going back to windows. I've seen it more than a few times... especially with oddball hardware.
Totally second this. I dual boot on both my laptop and desktop, and it's been a pretty flawless experience. (Except for that one time a windows update changed the update order, but that was fixed real quick) I use windows only for gaming and MS Office (when needed for collaboration, as the browser versions suck ass). I've personally never had Manjaro break on me, but in fact needed the reverse when updating the graphics drivers broke windows recently.
@@tsukuyomin I've seen folks go pure linux in the same manner I mentioned about them going back to windows... its interesting. I find folks that are like "linux doesnt have these problems" and other folks that have that problem all the time... and it seems to be almost user based lol.. not disto based. I am always baffled at the two completely different experiences (though that dichotomy was on full display with linus and luke in this series"
@@mascot4950 there's some niche things linux is just better at. Python debugging because of build times, some custom pipelines for certain industries use it, 3d render times for cpu based renderers can be faster. So, there's definitely good uses, but I feel like there's some cringey superiority complexes based on the operating system you use.
I'm actually very sure that Luke's claim about things being little slow on Ubuntu isn't flawed. I'm about sure he was running those damned Snap packed progs. They take ages to start, especially in first start.
Spent the past two weeks setting up Ubuntu on my laptop. Almost every issue I had and went to forums to were all because they were snap installed. Installed them differently, and now everything is working straight after install like a normal program.
@@ismaeltorres3219 I hear you. It's not very convenient for many reasons. I'm fed up with it as I've always ran into stuff like let's say usb game controller doesn't work with default snap rights etc. Much worse is that most snap installed packages can't access my NAS files, which is absolute hell. These days I rather install some other distro that doesn't use snaps. Iirc some, like Xubuntu doesn't use them at all, even though are official "buntu's'.
i mean ubuntu runs on gnome, no wonder it felt slow to him, it can be a bit demanding for older computers
@bbb i mean... we're discussing slowness, not bugs to be fixed, and windows is pretty well known for being slow, so this argument doesn't really work here
@bbb snaps really are slow to open for the first time after booting up because they are stored as compressed images that need to be decompressed and mounted before they can be launched.
If it helps, I lost my entire morning at work today because macOS decided the Unity install I’ve been using for months is no longer code signed properly. In order to reinstall Unity through their proprietary hub, I had to turn off Apple’s chip security in recovery mode.
Apple's solution to people getting angry about the drama and effort that their code signing and evaluation is, is to port iOS apps to the Mac.
@@disekjoumoer honestly, now that they're going ARM on their laptop/desktop lines, they might as well just do a unified OS at that point.
@@InfernosReaper it’s basically where they’re headed in the end. I mean iOS, iPadOS, and iOS are all osx underneath it all.
Might as well just leave that bastard turned-off forever.
Maybe Apple's security stopped the reinstall because Unity partnered with that malware company.
I'm 100% certain Ubuntu felt slow to Luke because of those god damn snaps. Unfortunately, Ubuntu shoves snap packaged apps down your throat by default.
Yeah, f**c snaps. But I would still say, it should be faster than Windows for nonLinux noobs.
There’s a philosophical difference that I hate about people that know Linux. They value learning about how to set up their computer, and don’t see it as time wasted because they derive pleasure out of it or have the patience for it. That’s no reason to condescend someone-not everyone values the same things you do.
There’s not enough hours in a day for me to want to do that, and I use Linux every day. I get extremely frustrated when I have to fix my system because frankly, I don’t care what went wrong and it’s always something different. Developer time is more expensive than run time, and in the same way, time spent doing work USING your computer is more valued than time spent FIXING your computer. If you drove a car professionally and you had to service it yourself, maintain it when it breaks, and enjoyed tweaking it so it did exactly what you wanted, good for you, I applaud you. However, there’s a reason most people drive automatic cars, most companies outsource the job of servicing and maintenance, and most managers get annoyed if something breaks and costs time. They frankly don’t care that you ran low on oil because the drain plug washer was reused, which can save money when done correctly. They’re still going to be annoyed.
If you can’t understand why people get frustrated when they have to use Linux and you choose to say snarky things to people being earnest in trying, you have to understand that this behavior is insufferable, and is the reason why you feel like you’re shouting into the void. It’s because people have different values, and no amount of condescension will change that. If you prefer the world where I look down on you for not knowing how to service your car, and you look down on me for not knowing how to service my computer, is that the world you want to live in?
I agree with you. I personally live tweaking with my system and getting into the nitty-gritty. But I know that everyone doesn't want to, everyone doesn't need to, and not everyone has the time. I wish more people did, but that's unrealistic.
To be fair, if people kept bringing you totaled cars demanding that you fix them for free, you'd probably tell them off too.
@@noahw4623 But you wouldn't deliberately make yourself available to help and then smear feces on anyone who asked for help, would you? FAR too many Linux fanbois do exactly that.
@Jorge Laughingman Thanks for proving my point.
@Jorge Laughingman I think you could sincerely benefit from learning how to understand other people, especially people that don't share your ideology. You might learn that one day when you need help, you may need to ask someone that will see you as a "lazy or ignorant asshole" for daring to ask such a simple question. Unfortunately, you will make this mistake at one point or another if you have not already. Nobody should be expected to become an expert in all areas, and almost nobody expects that of you. In life, you will often need more expertise than you possess and acquiring the prerequisite expertise is infeasible. It is not weakness to want hard things to be easier (and better through the work of others), and it is not strength to want to suffer in every aspect of life (by figuring out everything yourself). To quote Newton, "If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulder of giants." Your giant is Linus Torvald. Linus Torvald's giant was Dennis Ritchie/Ken Thompson. Dennis Ritchie's giant was John Backus. You can keep recursing backward.
You might learn that differences in values don't mean anyone is inferior to you, and that complementary values to your own make society more pleasant. Disparaging others for their differences make it more hostile.
I really agree on the point with the ads and telemetry in windows... Telemetry in terms of crashes and bugs is fine but I don't want ads in my OS that I paid for quite a lot... Also the pre-installed bloatware like candy crush. How many 40 year old moms use windows for gaming? They use phones for that.
Funny thing is that the telemetry doesn't even work because MS did remove all the useful features from Start menu anyway.
Prolly because everybody that actually knows their way around windows will disable telemetry as one of the first things when setting it up. So Microsoft is mostly getting data from people that only use the system for opening the browser and Outlook which is why using telemetry for design and functionality decisions is a really dumb idea
@@neruwu Microsoft still sends a ton of your data even when you explicitly turn off all of the telemetry options. It just sends a bit more when it's on.
@@guestimator121 Those switches during install are placebos, they don't do anything. When I was preparing and testing W11 ISOs I left those options on "default" - MS for "on" - for my first test install and switched telemetry etc. off during setup ... yet when I loaded my live install into NTLite those settings were all still on "deafault". So I tried it the other way around, disabled all that stuff in the ISO but left all telemetry options activated when MS asked me about my spyware preferences ... and guess what: when I checked everything was still disabled. Those switches during/after windows installation don't do a thing. Why am I not surprised
And after disabling the telemetry you will complain about windows being bad 😁
@@neruwu Telemetry enables itself after every update so even if you turn it off it will enable itself. Even third party tools are not much help to prevent telemetry from activating again.
I’m really REALLY hoping Valve can come to the rescue with SteamOS 3 and can sorta take the kinks of Linux out. I’ll be setting up a dual or tri-boot as soon as it drops with windows and maybe mint
The problem isn't the Linux kernel, it's probably some package or driver that's enabled by default on Ubuntu based systems. For example Nouveau, the open source graphics driver is enabled by default on most distributions and it's absolutely terrible.
I'm afraid Valve doesn't have much impact on things like that, unless they make open source alternatives for software that have been a nightmare from the start.
@GH0STST4RSCR34M That's exactly how OSS works. All valve needs to do is create PR to the relevant repos. Not saying they're going to do that, but they have every means to do so.
A gaming centered Linux OS needs to figure out three things (1) how to map DX12+ features that do not exist in Vulkan for AAA games like Far Cry, Halo (2) How to get DXVA/2 working for video with paid codecs that everyone on Windows has (3) How to implement High Dynamic Range support into Linux
Keep in mind that Valve wants SteamOS 3 to run games. If there's something that will heighten the experience or fix a problem for their distro, Valve will do it, but I don't think it will fix everyone's issues. Most of what I do can be done from a web browser or it's related to playing games and I'm quite happy sticking to Manjaro because I can get everything done that I want on it. Also keep in mind that SteamOS 3 is most likely built with their AMD APU in mind, so it might not have a kernel built for Intel/Nvidia hardware.
At the end, SteamOS is basically like any distro out there, and in my opinion, new comming distros cant change the way linux work in general in terms of everything.
Luke, timeshift is your friend. Faster than reinstalling any operating system. That being said there is no point in battling against your os when you have work to do.
The thing is that you start distrusting your OS. Like "what if I update now? Will it break?"
@@MrAsmontero Especially with Arch
@@MrAsmontero Arch is the worst example of Linux distro,you people needs Wubuntu
I tried to do it with you guys, but after day 1 of having no issues, the system crashed… when I tried to boot up the OS would not load, stuck with no OS. So I said screw it and went back to windows.
@M T Ubuntu LTS build.
@@darekin One thing to understand is that LTS builds do not work well on new hardware unless you manually install a new kernel
@@fishslab LTS builds are refreshed with the latest updates from the standard image roughly around every 6 months. LTS works fine unless you're running bleeding edge hardware.
U borked something, you should at least get a grub error unless something else removed the data from your disk
@@jimmyheustis No. A new LTS is released every two years.
LTS builds run LTS kernels. Newer Ryzen CPUs require newer kernels.
Windows just works is the essential part of why many folks still return despite Linux being a fun experience.
At the same rate, I really like that Luke honestly gave Linux a try on his workstation.
The worst part about this whole thing however is neither Linux or Windows but rather his shoulder problems :/
I used to be a Linux evangelist. I still push for its use as much as I can on the server side. That said I game up with Linux on the desktop because I got sick and tired of constantly fighting with linux to do my job or play games.
@@bobothn I keep it on my ThinkPad but the gaming rig is powered by Win10.
A few days ago I installed Windows 10 on a PC and it didn't recognize a simple USB wireles device. So I had to use another PC (with Mint) to get the driver. This is something bizarre for a longtime Linux user like me. For many things, you just can't get the work done on Windows.
@@marcelorauber_ From my experience, Win10s device detection is mostly fine but especially with GPUs it tends to throw outdated drivers at the user.
I'm using Linux almost as long as Windows thus I can handle both systems well enough but if things just do not work with either one I don't force it either.
Same reason why I'd pick Android over Linux if I had to make the choice. Android just works.
(Mint Daily Driver) --- Simplest multi-monitor-without-bs fix in linux is just to get everything setup and updated (the correct drivers are important) THEN hook up the extra monitor(s).
AMD ONLY GPU is fine.
Intel ONLY iGPU is fine.
NVidia Intel Hybrid is sooooo bad on laptops
I've taken a break from Linux lately since I got my new display so I can mess with HDR and RT stuff which is pretty much non existent under Linux atm (open-source).
Waiting on major HDR and display control to appear in Wayland. Could take a while.
I still boot to Linux to play a few things which have linux versions, fortunately dual booting solves most problems.
I want Linux to succeed as I hate Windows+MS stuff and love open-source stuff; but it needs a few more key features & more polish, getting there.
use Windows in a vfio passthrough VM.
@@ethan-fel i just play games using dxvk/vkd3d/proton and use a VM for any smaller windows only stuff, and if everything else fails then I have windows on duelboot on an old 200gb ssd which I only use the few times when friends wants to play some anticheat locked game like apex or warzone..
Aaaand the old aphorism holds true: "BSD is for people who love Unix; Linux is for people who hate Microsoft."
5:25 Linus's frustration with windows chipset drivers is the best content in years.
I'm testing Pop!_OS on my machine and just recently there was an update. So I click update and it does all the done's and do's to get the update done, it restarts, and I'm looking at windows. For whatever inexplicable reason that thing just went and changed the loading order in bios. I have no idea why, no idea how, it just did that. Linux experience is like jumping out of an airplane, non-stop adventure till' the end. :D
If you're dual booting it's probably best to go with something like GRUB. It's challenging to set up for new users, but it supports boot options for both Windows and any Linux distro you may have. That way you can just select the OS you want to boot into.
Good luck with your operating system endeavours!
Edit: forgot to mention you're probably already using a bootloader such as GRUB, but it takes some work to get Windows to show up.
@Timmy GRUB is generally speaking the Linux bootloader, so you'll be using that. But because it supports booting to both Windows and Linux in a handy-dandy list menu, I'd say it's a better choice.
You can still select a bootloader from your BIOS if that's what you prefer of course but that takes an extra step of actually entering the BIOS 🙂
Its most probably is your bootloader default.... Restarts go through the bootloader... if you set your default option to windows.... it will load into windows if you choose restart from your LInux OS.... This is a common dualboot thing..... you gotta configure your linux bootloader (which is usually GRUB)
I know it might not look right when you see grub, but its actually better than always going to bios or if you're lucky, able to open the boot manager with f8 (or something like that). I think its a decent compromise for a dual boot, to choose which OS you want before it loads one.
You guys all have the weirdest bugs. I just clicked install on my manjaro live usb and 10 mins I had my little grub start menu with Linux, win and memtest as items. Pretty straightforward.
I'm an experienced Linux user and I would do the same thing as Luke in this situation
Edit: There are people who want to get work done and then there are purists who want to use FOSS no matter what
Edit 2: Too many insecure people in replies, stop taking everything negative
Except your workflow is faster on linux by far
@@zulous until it isn't. Linux isnt perfect!
@@monsterhunter445 Still better than Windows...
@@zulous 3 years ago i was using ubuntu on my work computer while using windows at home. I did that for roughly 6 months. By the end of it, my workflow wasn't any faster in linux, however i was constantly stuck with fixing problems. Disclaimer I'm not a console/terminal guy, I like visual feedback, I hate trying out guides where i should paste commands into my terminal without understanding what they are doing until eventually after 2 hours it either works or I bricked my system. It is not a great experience.
The few tasks I need a terminal for i use the gitbash (mingw) or the WSL (Windows subsystem for linux).
I really would like to have an example where the workflow on linux is faster. I personally am a jvm-dev and my entire workflow is either in the WSL (primarily docker stuff) or just faster with an IDE.
@@_aullik If your workflow isn't faster in Linux then you didn't put any effort to improve it, I am saying it as a guy who also loves GUI
Edit: Or Your workflow requires one browser and one app that you use everyday
I'm just a Linux guy who is BUMMED to see this kind of instability on Debian based distros. REALLY BROS? THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE DOING THERE THESE DAYS?!
Stable means doesnt fail/crash.
Not that the software you have installed is written properly
Well, we should expect high quality from Debian stable, as most of Linux relys on it being good to go. But you can't expect them to code every hardware combination into the kernel.
@@Jakef100f words hurt my bones
Not surprised in the slightest that Luke has experienced the things he had. Canonical went shoulders deep into the their amazing new ecosystem, and it has not yet worked for anyone
With Windows now you can just winget to install most common things, as if it's a package manager. Certainly apps like Slack and Chrome can be installed this way, and you can easily write a script to automate it.
Is winget the command-line version of the Microsoft Store?
@@deusexaethera It can download packages from multiple sources. Things like Steam / Chrome / Slack that aren't on the Microsoft Store can be installed, but things like the Netflix app from the Microsoft Store can also be installed via Winget.
i use portable apps so I don't have to reinstall everything when I reinstall OS.
Ehmm now it requires you to have an account at M$ if you want to use it on W11. That is just unacceptable for someone who likes Linux and open ethics. Also the main reason everybody liked it initially was that you could automate updates. I guess no updates if you need to reset password for an account on user machine.
I had the same problem with my mint after a kernel update. only thing that solved it was going to update manager--view--kernels and switch to 5.13 kernel. I don't have a windows license so had to find a solution even if it wasn't the best one.
@@__Brandon__ thank you. I enjoy learning linux and figuring it out.
I've been using Ubuntu on my Lenovo Thinkpad for software development. No problems whatsoever and it's been stable for years.
Even the Thinkpad dock worked right out of the box.
I feel you. On this sooooo much. So does my wife.. and my daughter.
All these frustrations about windows and Microsoft, their recent practices, and steps backwards, wayyy backwards, are why I'm working on putting MacOS on my Ryzen system. Yes I still need Windows for games. But I'm choosing to do everything else in MacOS. No ads, simple UI, quick and snappy.
I really wish that Linux was up to the challenge of being a simple general user daily driver. It just isn't yet, and after 35ish years of development and thousands of distros that come and go. I really don't think it ever will come to full fruition.
Be careful. If you tell Windows users that Windows has ads, they say "no it doesn't...stop making things up!" even though this is easily verifiable from Windows' own menus.
@@gamelord12 right!?!? And Who TF wants to uninstall the same useless apps everytime that the operating system does a "security and features" update...?
err... linux is up to the challenge if you're not using new and exotic laptop hardware. Especially if you're on Kubuntu, Neon, Mint, PCLinux, Manjaro, PopOs, Elementary and Zorin. As a simple and general user daily driver, Linux is more than good enough, it's better than windows; no forced updates, easy install no bs, printer just prints, things just don't stop working like on windows if there are no updates, no viruses to worry about.
Most people nowadays just use a web browser and a word processor... when the word processor is not actually already on the web. Some distros have realized this and even offer a "kiosk" mode where it's literally just a web browser.You don't need macos or windows to browse the web, Linux is more than enough for that.
As for the drivers stuff.. The reason you don't have to deal with much of it is because 70% of the kernel size is just drivers to run hardware...
Impressive, but it is still quite a bit of distance to go.
Clip on drivers will be the future
Lol back to drivers on usbs
Linux should learn few things from Blender. At first they was super protective about their workflow in program, but after 2.8 version changed everything form foundation. Blender became more user friendly as result and took it mass appeal like a champ
Linux isn't a company, it's 25+ companies and 500+ communities, Linux foundation only cares about kernel, Linux desktop doesn't even get 2% funding of what Linux foundation gets
@@NamasteProgramming if you think about it - the only company actually caring about Linux desktop is Valve and Google with their chromebooks. And google has their own thing going on, thus arent contributing to existing ecosystem much. Nobody else is making money off desktop experience
You don't know what you talk about, if you compare Blender with Linux.
At least, compare with one Distribution/DE.
@@itsgytis7833 Yup, Anyway I can't see what I commented, CZcams is censoring my comment for me
.
@@NamasteProgramming They pretty much on same page. Opensource software
Coming back to Windows feels like suddenly getting rid of a persistent awful headache.
Luke, you should DEFINITELY consider dual-booting! You can have Windows as a backup in case you need "just works" at all costs, and still have Mint set as the default.
meanwhile after over a month of using Linux Mint, I've wiped my Windows drive, formatted to Ext4 and now it's extra storage for my now Linux PC.
2021 and we're still facing display issues. X11 oldness combined with Wayland not being ready for everyone making it actually suck.
X11 4ever!
Luke, give Fedora Silverblue a try, or just Fedora. No fanboying here, just a suggestion from an old Linux user.
PS: linux can suck too, every piece of software does.
One of my friends uses Fedora, man it looks beautiful. If I had a windows laptop, I would deffo use it, but no point installing it on a macbook lol
For all my bad experiences with an operating systems course using fedora and the memetness of the name my only issues came from not knowing how to use vim. I do think it probably is good for stable and not doing anything weird
@@U1TR4F0RCE I do a lot of weird stuff with it, I am on Silverblue, it is impossible to break it unless you mean to.
Fedora is super solid and on a laptop gnome really shines (on my main rig I prefer KDE) but man, that installer is hot garbage. I'm sorry to whoever designed that but that must be the least intuitive installer I've ever seen.
However I don't believe Luke would enjoy silverblue as it's.. pretty different from the usual way and while it has some great benefits, it also has confusing parts so I don't think it's a good distro for someone rather new.
I went through Luke's experience of Installing Windows 11 and Linux (Kubuntu) back to back a week ago.
Windows was an absolute nightmare to install and I still have a couple of those "yellow squares in the device manager" that even the manufacturer's drivers didn't fix.
Linux on the other hand took about 10 minutes to go from plugging in the USB drive to being fully installed, including the programs that I need to work with.
Ever since Ubuntu started placing focus on Snaps, it's been... Yeah, laggy is probably the right word. Self-contained is cool and all, but it just isn't the same.
appimages/snaps/flatpaks really aren't the way to go IMO. Yes, packaging the deps and everything with the app is handy, but it comes with a big runtime cost
@@lemonsh AppImages and Flatpaks are okay. You can barely tell any difference in the times to load an sanboxed app using these tools versus an appinstalled with the native package manager. Snap on the other hand is a disaster and another fine example of Canonical's NIH syndrome (Unity, MIR & Upstart come to mind) and the choice to make snaps the preferred choice for installing even simple apps like a goddamn calculator(!) baffles me!
Linus laughing in the background was priceless lol
I have dual boot with windows and openSUSE. I thought at first that I would switch all the time, but it's actually not that often I switch to windows. Only for Valorant, Fortnite and sometimes some random games that pop up. I have to use windows on my laptop because the school I work at use the adobe programs. But openSUSE have covered almost all my personal needs. Instead of adobe I use GIMP (photoshop), Inkscape (illustrator), penpot (XD), davinchi resolve / kdenlive (premiere pro and AE)
Thats nice, but its not true really, is it? Gimp kind of sucks, inskscape is basic and crashes even more than illustrator, davinci resolve studio can not replace ae. Unfortunately none of these alternatives can cut it. Its all nice on paper, but in the end its a gimmick. A pro will use pro software, not only because its better, but also because you have to colaborate with other people that use it. Its like that even if some of us don't like it. I ve had a few episodes with "why dont I go open source, its for sure good enough by now, 10 years later after the last time I tried". But I quickly went to : "f*** this, Im out, windows ftw "
@@psychicseahorse9222 So is the only thing holding you back from using from Linux is software support?
I agree that many of the alternatives to the adobe programs don't have all the features. But like I said, it covers all my personal needs.
You said that you quickly went back to windows. How long did you try? Inkscape is not the same as illustrator. You can't just switch and think you can apply your illustrator workflow to Inkscape.
Also krita. Dont forget krita. For some reason its unknown in the linux space but it is so amazing.
@@herroberbesserwisser7331yeah Krita is very good. At least for drawing/painting. Is it also good at photo manipulation like GIMP?
@@alfeinstein9877 you can do photo editing but i have not yet put them up against eachother because i mainly use krita and it is good for my needs. i seems to support many of gimps features but every time i tried gimp i came back to krita. I cant really talk about gimp. you can do most basic stuff in krita tho.
I do hope you both revisit trying Linux in say 6 - 12 months and see what's improved
Especially since Red Hat is working on a solution to get HDR working on all distros
i hope they do a challenge were they use steam deck as their gaming pc :D
@@MastermindAtWork RedHat should not try to "fix" anything on Linux, they always just make things worse
Give it 2 years, I think 12 months is a little too optimistic.
@blacknester open source drivers for AMD have.. To the point they beat Windows performance in some cases. All desktops are better (expect Gnome)
Normal users need never usually go near any 'dev branches'
Same thing happened when I tried Ubuntu, added with audio issues. I can’t stand Gnome 3 and PulseAudio. Switched to Elementary and it’s become my favorite distro
Gnome 3 has always been a shit show. Too bad elementary has developers with a shitty attitude completely. It used to be really interesting back in the gnome 2 days. Since then it’s been nothing but childish and insulting what community they had.
Delete the PulseAudio configuration (sudo rm -r ~/.config/pulse) and reboot. It will re-detect your audio setup and probably get it right this time. I had to do that when I got a new laptop and installed Kubuntu on it a few weeks ago. After deleting and redetecting the audio setup, now it correctly switches between onboard audio and the USB patch cable running between my laptop dock and my Hi-Fi.
Also, unless you are completely incapable of using a UI that isn't exactly like GNOME, I strongly suggest running KDE 5 instead. It's more configurable and lower memory usage than GNOME _or_ XFCE nowadays.
@@deusexaethera Tried that, and it still didn’t work. I just switched distros at that point and ElementaryOS has been serving me miles better than Ubuntu did
While not as dire a situation as a messed up shoulder, a huge part of why I don't use Linux as my daily driver is because there is no good colorblind feature like there is in Windows. Being someone with colorblindness, Windows is actually one of the only things out there with a solid colorblind assist, and it's not like it fixes my work flow or anything but it is such an incredibly nice feature to have so I can see things closer to how they are supposed to be seen. I don't even have to rely on a game's colorblind setting (which are usually simulations instead of aids anyway). There are ZERO Linux alternatives for that.
Been running Linux on my main workstation for the last 6 or 7 months. No way I am going back.....However, my laptop is still running Windows10, and I may add another ssd and dual boot Linux
For the love of God Don't Dual Boot! Way too many issues can pop up. Run Linux as host and Run Windows as a VM for those "necessary" Windows tasks.
I understand this so much. I have a dualboot. Manjaro I3 (based on Arch btw) and W10. I am a programmer so having to solve some issues from time to time is something I can handle (but to be fair, I can't remember when something got messed up without me trying some wizardry :D ). I got used to the system and it is great. But I have some stuff I need to do that requires Windows. Some music related stuff, or me being on home office. And maaaan, it sucks so bad whenever I have to boot to Windows :D.
I get you, I'm currently running Ubuntu (with KDE DE) and can boot into windows on the same system that I never want to see windows again (seriously my PC is running way nicer on Linux than it ever did on windows and not to mention the insanity in windows 11 that you just don't really want to deal with...)
And yes, I have to run 1 application suite in windows because Adobe doesn't make a fckng Linux/Debian/Ubuntu version (even an RPM would work for me or a snap) so please don't get me started on windows, then we would still be here tomorrow...
Yeah, I hear you. I've installed manjaro to my home workstation and maan, I've never looked back. My more powerful gaming pc feels slower and more annoying due to windows 11. I still keep it around for gaming but all of my programming workloads are done on manjaro exclusively. I even use some of windows only apps on manjaro with lutris/wine.
dont use manjaro they ddosed the AUR and have let their SSL certificate expire, and they run packages two weeks behind arch making partial upgrades more likely
@@RegularEarthlingEngineer DDOSed AUR? What do you mean? How?
Same for me but I'm on kde I haven't gotten to learning tiling managers yet but I keep wanting to give i3 or while a try
Congrats. I tried hard with Linux Mint but it just didn't have the things I wanted. It felt unpolished, and it was good for basic use but I kept using Windows more and more for games and eventually never booted back into Mint. That doesn't mean I'm not rooting for it to improve and become more accessible.
@@__Brandon__ I'm curious about that as well.
"It shouldn't happen on a paid system"
Neither should a pay system have that amount of bloatware and specially they shouldn't have ads inside the system.
Last point, I think some xrand command could have solved it, but I legit haven't found this problem. It could have something to do with gnome, since both system use gnome packages and some of the secondary monitor options have to do with the desktop environment config. That might be why pop os is making their own packages, go not rely on the mess that is gnome
I had a similar issue with hdmi, xrandr didn't fix it, I had to use a previous kernel version.
@@brainwater it shouldn't happen, I have never seen this error, but since xrandr is the behind the scenes tool it should have a solution if it is not broken from the xorg system directly, but even if it has a solution, most of those commands are per session, so, even in the best case scenario where you find the solution, it is still not a good solution.
You can also always try wayland, but that is clearly not ready yet to replace xorg, every single time I have tried it I have failed miserably.
Just don't fucking us Ubuntu until they get their heads back out of their collective asses
Weirdly just wanting to get work done is why I use Linux like every tool it depends on the work you are doing I suppose
At this point, Arch has become so well put together that it and its derivatives seem like the "right" choice. At one point you needed a lot of experience to use Arch at all, and you'd tell new people to just use Mint or Elementary because they're easy. But now, no matter your skill level, just use Manjaro or Garuda depending on how much eye candy you want by default in your desktop.
I guess SUSE and Ubuntu still have a place if you really need professional support, but they've fallen way behind for home users.
If you want hard core.... Gentoo is your distro..... Arch instsll is child's play compared to a Gentoo instsll and maintaining it. I ran Gentoo for around 3 years then got tired of having to compile each application when there were updates. But Gentoo is still by far the best distro if you really want to learn Linux. I now run Arch and it was a breeze for me to build. But using linux since 1995 and also being RHCE certified has placed me in a very good position. No Windows for me unless Im at work where I have no option.
Debian sid and void are better
I run Kubuntu instead of Manjaro, because I'm not so hopelessly addicted to updates that I'm willing to risk having my kernel fail to boot after a random update just so I could get it installed a week sooner.
Not so simple unfortunately. The Garuda team has been really struggling with packaging. I ran Garuda for 6 months. On at least 3 occasions, I had to get under the hood and fix something critical.
Garuda's timeshift configuration worked out of the box. But there was at least one time where no amount of rolling back would allow the system to recover and proceed with updates. Package conflicts that pacman just couldn't resolve on it's own. Which is very strange to me as a long time Arch user. We're talking about packages in Garuda's main repos breaking on a regular basis.
@@dvanomaly420 Fair. I've never run Garuda on metal. I've only used it for like 2 weeks in a VM and decided the visual niceties weren't enough to switch from Manjaro (which I could make look almost the same with a few hours of effort if I really wanted to).
I've never had an issue with Manjaro. It updates the Kernel more than I'd like, but I just ignore the restart request for a week or two to make sure no one else is having problems.
I'm a firmware dev. I've got windows on all my machines. I literally get paid to wrestle with computers, I don't want to wrestle with my work PC so I can get work done, or with my home PC to do whatever the hell I want after work.
Well, Luke is still in a position to switch back to Windows as a quick fix -- he hasn't been using Linux as a main OS for that long. For me, Windows is mostly foreign territory; switching for me would be a long fix.
More interested in whether he intends to try again.
What do you need to do that you expect to need significant experience with Windows to do it correctly?
@@deusexaethera My colleague a ,whole life linux user, someone who is 5 times smarter than me, wanted me to help him install windows because he got confused with all the crap that windows defaults to. Like offline user account which now says "Limited experience" and the installer makes you think that you really get limited experience and my friend obviously trusted this. There are ton of quirks we are just too much used to M$ crappy desing.
@@deusexaethera Despite weird anecdotes, Windows 10 & 11 are pretty hard to develop a learning curve for.
@~6 minutes, Linus goes off on a rant about chipset drivers on windows, and it is glorious.
I think this is an outcome of having daily droven linux for a bit, and understanding that, 'hey, why the hell did we ever put up with this lameness?'. Stuff like this becomes super noticable, when you have enough alternate experiance of OTHER things, that you can finally 'measure'.
Remember, to measure anything, you have to have something to compare it against. A ruler, a 'unit'. If all you know is the first one you ever picked up, and dislike difference because 'but I'd have to learn everything all over again', then you'll never really be able to appreciate the thing you 'know', neither for it's good points, nor it's bad points.
You just won't know. You can't know.
The truth is, you learn a different yet similar thing, actually much quicker than the first time through: It's really not so bad. Uncomfortable, yes: You may find that the thing you were comfortable with in your ignorance, was actually never really as good as you thought it, and you might be challenged by finding your own past judgement to be faulty, now you know better.
But learning a different thing, won't be as hard or as slow as that first thing. Only temporarily awkward and maybe temporarily painful. Like excercising a muscle you never before had to use. But the suffering rapidly fades, and the benefits start accumulating, slow at first, then exponentialy faster.
The more different things you really learn, and test that learning by actually doing things with, the better you get to appreciate that different things are good for different things.
The right tool for the job can save so much time and effort. A jack of all trades is a master of none, but sometimes you just have to 'get it done' even if it's not pretty. Familiarity and the speed it brings can substitute for 'the right tool', if the job can be done quickly and sufficiently well. But you need to know both ways to get things done to be able to properly choose, to have the wisdom to make the right trade-off, Not just 'golden hammer' your way through.
Anyway, I remember well going through a phase exactly where coming back to windows from linux was even more uncomfortable, precisely because I now started to recognise where the bullshit timewasting is. No longer do I look at the 'we're now installing a driver for your device' message after plugging in some USB thing and think 'cool, it is working for me', instead now I think 'Why isn't it just done already? USB is all about standards, and it was just a damn standard USB device; it shouldn't even need a damn driver. It should just work, and on every other OS, it just DOES. This is an unacceptable waste of my time.'
And actually, that kinda sucks too. But I think Linus will be able to avoid the trap of then going into full fanboy mode and just starting to resent and hate being 'forced' to use windows because some boss said so, for now utterly clear reasons of 'the law of the instrument'. But this is because he is his own boss.
Sometimes I think that windows being just so unbearably crappy, and yet linux being easy to poke fun at, then lead to very many new linux fanboys getting upset enough to contribute time and effort to fix it, just to justify further their polarized stance that linux == font of all that's good, and MSFT == font of all evil. Because evidence to the contrary - like basically anything being broken - is just unbearable enough to require fixing immediately.
So MSFT basically doing such a technically shit job at their politically-de-facto PC OS so many years and pissing off all the techs in dead-end 'IT' jobs basically made those same techs push hard in their own time to make linux even better than it otherwise would have been. Probably with the motivation that someday, they wouldn't be stuck fixing yet again some artificial problem caused by the complete lack of engineering culture at MSFT. That eventually it would become more and more self-evident that they were right about OSS, and Linux in particular, the whole time.
And it seems to have become largely so - even if not quite the way everyone expected. More personal than a PC is a smartphone. And Windows basically has tapped out and given up on owning even a slice of that market, because they really couldn't compete. Apple showed us the way, and used BSD to get there. Google exploited the Linux kernel for smartphones with Android. Those two together are what percentage of the worldwide browser market? And then there were servers.
It seems like the law of unintended consequences goes both ways - MSFT did us all dirty with their scam of legitimising selling software licenses to collect money like an extortion racket, really putting the record companies on notice. And then screwing over their own customers with their lack of care regarding any comparable performance metric - only so long as they could keep re-selling us the same thing with just a new coat of paint over it next year with some incremental gains, at least until the old blood retired out.
They screwed over the techs too - making IT into a unending hell of sisyphean torture. So much so that everyone who found OSS / Linux, especially when windows was far worse than it is now, tended to turn into a Linux/GNU fan boy. All that unnecessary pain and suffering - once you understand how it all works - becomes intolerable as an enlightened IT guy: The only 'lawful good' way to work IT, is to fix things such that your customers simply no longer need you. Or to just stay 'lawful evil' and take your customers for a ride at their expense.
Thankfully, there are clearly so many new, good people working at MSFT: Windows 10 has been able to largely 'catch up' with so many simple little things (even if not all yet). And it's heading in the right direction: Caring about doing a good job for its users. Just being over-all less evil.
@blacknester Which distro?
TL;DR.
Luke: I use Chocalety on Windows for package management. At least during initial setup. I have a script under version control that I download and run after OS install that runs a decent amount of unattended software setup.
And that's what I'm finding at the moment with Linux. For the most part, things work fine - except for some strange reason transferring files over a Gigabit port is extremely slow. I've been trying to diagnose the problem for days with the help of people on the distro forum who have been very helpful and patient. Although as Luke pointed out, at some point you just have to go with what works. I can't spend days diagnosing something that really should just work. And therein lies the problem again I find with Linux desktop. For all the great stuff Linux has, depending on the distribution there's always something funky that is a deal breaker to getting stuff done.
Windows 11 is the straw that broke the camels back for me. Ubuntu 20.04 runs much faster than Windows 10 on the same machine. This is a very computer old 2008 Dell 1720 Vostro. I love the old laptop and simple wont let it go. I no longer need Windows for anything I do sooo.
There will never be a point where using Linux isn't like learning to use the computer all over again. Honestly, you're dealing with Windows all day long too, you're just used to Windows garbage, and you need to get used to Linux's garbage. In other words, if you want to take the plunge, take the plunge. I did it almost a decade ago. For a few months, I sacrificed some productivity. Now, it would be a sacrifice in productivity to move back to Windows. I have my GNU/Linux/BSD workflow memorized, and I'd have to relearn how it's done with proprietary software again.
All software is garbage until you learn how to use. Windows is garbage even after that.
Luke should go see someone that can do Spencer technic for his frozen shoulder
Outside of gaming (which is very hit and miss on Linux), a lot of this comes down to what your experienced with. If you've used Windows for 15 years, solving random problems that crop up is normally pretty easy, you draw on your bank of knowledge and experience. Change your O/S and you really are building up your knowledge bank all over again.
I've been lucky enough to work with Windows/Linux side by side most of my life. From that perspective, fixing random stuff that breaks/bugs out is about the same.
I'm in a similar point but I've spent so much time between Mac os Linux and windows I can get by on any of them leaving windows as my main choice was hard at first but we've gotten to the point where I usually am about as proficient with arch as I am with windows the big issue for me now is just things like AD when I can't bind to an ldap it makes my life annoying
my knowledge bank is google lol
the thing with linux is a lot of stuff requires scripting. and with windows, configurations are centralised to registry settings with clear documentation. Also on windows, people have built plenty of GUI tools to assist setting up. Take autoruns for example, you have the program "autoruns" for that that covers all the various ways autoruns can start. But on linux, you need to know all the scripts responsible for it.
Microsoft including ancient drivers for WIndows is probably for backward compatibility reasons: most modern interfaces have a core feature set that has been stable for 15+ years and it makes more sense to include drivers based on the vendor-agnostic core feature set than drivers for every vendor-specific fork. Bundled drivers get the computer online and updates can pick things up from there. If we exclude GPUs, I don't remember having to manually install drivers for anything other than oddball hardware in 10+ years.
Oh boy looks like I'm really lucky and blessed that Linux (Solus) simply works for the last three years, even all my gaming needs. Had to rollback once to fix something and that's it. Even on Windows I had to fix more broken stuff.
I hate the attitude of the Solus devs, but I have to admit their distro does seem to achieve greater reliability+usability than most.
@@deusexaethera I'm reading the forums often and they never said or did something out of hate or ignorance and always give a reason for what they do. Sometimes they have a short temper, personally I would say they simply come to the point fast but always with fair play, but that can be found everywhere.
There was a public discussion drama because of gnome libhandy and a banned gnome dev but that was only the last step, all the discussions beforehand never get mentioned. Of course then it looks like they banned someone affer only one discussion which would be inacceptable but in reality there were several discussions and they got tired of the topic, because they already said everything and wanted to be done with it.
I can see why people think this is harsh behaviour, but I know it from myself that some discussions are tedious and stuck, so why should I invest time and nerves into it to discuss it over and over again.
Who are these people seeing ads on Windows? I've been using Windows 10 since release, and, yes, I see that check-box on install too. But I've never seen an ad, unless you count those rare ads for microsoft products which appear in places like the lock screen, almost all of which can be disabled.
isn't is that snap packages are use for everything in ubuntu right? and that makes all applications take long to load?
Joint issues are so annoying. I messed up my neck when I had a concussion a couple of years ago (practically whiplash), and my neck had been getting progressively worse. I eventually had pain 24/7. My wife and I went through every conceivable scenario to make it better. We finally found a combination of adjusting the bed frame and firmness of my pillows that worked, insofar as reducing the constant pain. The pain began to spread down my neck into my shoulders. There was still much that I would rather not do with my neck. I went to my doctor and got a referral for physical therapy. My wife asked why I had to go to PT, and not simply get my neck adjusted. The muscles in my neck had adapted, the best they knew how, to my screwed up bones. I have to do exercises to help my muscles remember the way they're supposed to be. Overwise, after any "adjustment", those muscles will try to pull said bones back into the messed up position. It's not an easy process, especially when you just want to get on with your life.
I have similar, rounded shoulders unavoidable unless i do certain things for life
Using windows 10 on a HDD is the worst experience possible. Something as simple as right clicking a folder is not instantaneous. Right clicking on drive C can take like 2-3 seconds to load. It's a bad experience
At this day and age, you really shouldn't be using an HDD as your Primary OS drive
@@KatyushaLauncher I'm not. But i used to and its shit. You gotta understand in some countries SSDs are still expensive and the HDD is the only viable option. That cant be the answer to anything. "Well my game runs slowly" "at this day and age you shouldnt run this graphics card". Guess what Linux doesnt have that problem. It's just stupid windows shenanigans
@@slendydie1267 I do understand because I live in a 3rd world country but even here we only ever use HDD as file storage, and used SSD are really cheap these days. I run Linux on my HP computer that only has an HDD and I can confidently tell you that it still runs programs slow because changing the OS does not change the speed of my HDD. Comparing Disk storage with Graphics cards is skewed at best, there are only really 3 options you can pick from and that's HDD, Sata SSD, or NvME SSD, and even the most budget of SSD's can outperform almost any HDD. If you're game runs slow, the first thing you do is lower the settings that's all you need to do. With Disk Storage, Simple settings can't make an HDD just as fast as an SSD.
@@KatyushaLauncher I use HDD for mass file storage and NFS too.
Luke, my guess is that some USB or PCIe power saving mode was turned on after an upgrade on some power daemon. Never know how those settings will affect things, it’s a crapshoot
At this point I find it easier to deal with Windows Server than regular Windows with its """user-friendly""" experience
Might actually be a good idea.
I have been daily driving Ubuntu for 5 years at work now. And previously used RHEL 5 for almost 6 years. So I am very well acquainted with the quirks. I used to have the random monitor turn off and then on again a few years ago when I was running Ubuntu 16.04 (now I am running 20.04). But even now, if I ever have to reboot my laptop, with my two external monitors it is totally random as to whether the monitors will come back up or not. Sometimes I have to reboot again, or unplug the cables and plug them back in. Sometimes closing the lid will make one of the monitors undetectable. Once it works, it is painless but everytime I have to reboot it is like a 5 minute ritual to get the displays working again. Imaging having to do that when you are already running late for your morning meeting where you are supposed to present.
Wow! This series of videos has been like a passionate Italian movie with a dramatic finale! But I understand Luke so much and agree on some of the points of this video. I've used the unbreakable Debian Linux for 2 years, went from stable to unstable and then sid. And then, I just wanted my computer to have the work done. I still have Linux installed on my old PC and on WSL2. Windows Linux and the other operating systems are just tools.
The bit about Halo reminds me of a glitch that happened when I was playing a week or 2 ago, like Linus mentioned someone left midgame and after that someone new joined but somehow got added to the wrong team so it ended up being a 5v3, it was not fun.
I've never seen that happen, sounds terrible
@@lirfrank I've played a decent bit of Infinite and it's only happened once, no idea what would've caused it.
I'm very happy using Windows Subsystem for Linux (1 or 2, both are cool though I prefer WSL 2 now). I get the best of Windows and the best of Linux.
I wish I could say the same but WSL screws up with my work flow. They're hella easy to setup but they don't work for me.
@@PixelTrik What doesn't work with them? I have been using WSL and WSL2 for a few years now and I write HPC software. I do development and testing locally before I push the code to some servers to run larger calculations.
@@Immudzen I'm currently building a markdown parser because pandoc is too slow to generate PDFs. When writing to a file, WSL kinda dies at times, that's because of godawful compatibility of Linux with NTFS. Instead of WSL, I'll go and deal with Windows' native solutions to get the job done and test Linux support on a VM.
My Linux never breaks. I wish I could help this be the experience for everyone.
I had an issue with Ubuntu not working on the HDMI monitor with an AMD card a week or two ago, it turns out the latest kernel was F'd up, so in grub I selected the older kernel... after spending a couple hours debugging.
As a software engineer, me and my coworkers have been using a mix of macOS and Ubuntu/arch etc for the last 10 years at a few companies
The Linux users have always had display output problems and is a trope at this point
I’m a devops person managing hundreds of linux machines, a long time ago I was daily driving windows, *BSD and Solaris etc, but for the last 8 years macOS has just been the best compromise, with a utility VM for Linux-only needs
I love linux, but my local machine _can not fail_ the basics or I won’t be able to do my job and those linux servers are useless
macOS display stuff always works and has the dev stuff you need, I think this is the reason why the SWE community is such extensive macOS users
I feel your pain Luke, ain’t nobody got time for that PITA BS, your computer should not be systematically be wasting your time
Switching your OS is a big commitment and if you do that, you need to, well, commit to it. For one, you don't just install a totally new OS on your work computer and hope for the best. There are bound to be problems. So you either need to dual boot or use another computer to check out the problems you are going to run into with all your peripherals and workflow. The problem is that when people run into any kind of issue on Linux, instead of trying to get it working, which might or might not take some time, they immediately drop it and boot to Windows. But when Windows have some problem like something is not installing or some hardware problems, people spend some time fixing things.
The thing is, most people have Windows as the default OS and need to make a conscious choice to switch. There has to be some effort brought into the process and there will be a period where stuff is not working right because you are getting to know a totally new OS.
But when it comes to the work computer you just have to do what works. If you don't have time to jump between different operating systems, then don't. But if you really want to switch, then allocate some time for potential issues that will certainly arise. And while you are in the "getting to know it" process, have a backup OS or computer to do work in case the Linux one has issues that you cannot fix in time. It is also totally understandable that sometimes it is just impossible to switch from windows because of the workflow you use.
Also, regardless of the OS, doing updates every day on your work computer is not the best idea. Just remember how many times Windows screwed up people's computer last year (like deleting all documents). It's always a good idea to wait a few days and see if anyone reported bugs.
Linus is a bit out of touch with Windows... Microsoft/Windows does actually install drivers for you via Windows Update when you do a fresh install... You just have to actually go to Windows Update and run it. Some drivers are under the optional updates, but they are there. More critical/essential drivers are usually installed automatically.
My only peeve about this is that sometimes Windows Update will install an older driver instead of the current one. Arguably, it is trying to install the more stable WHQL certified driver, but, please don't do it for my graphics drivers... I install the radeon/geforce program so that I can manage it myself...
The comments section is interresting: Some people fail safe to Linux, whereas others fall back on Windows. But nobody seems to fail safe on Apple... XD
I suppose this all boils down to ease and confidence: Whichever system you trust the most and are more comfortable using will be your fail safe. At this time, there doesn't seem to be an objective better answer, since both platforms seem to have their quirks and irritants; maybe some use types trigger more quirks from a given system than others, which could objectively explain why some users have more issues with either system in regard of their usage. When speaking about tools, the one which makes us subjectively (feel) or objectively (measure) more efficient and productive - after an appropriate break-in period, that is - is always the best one. Because our brains are all wired differently (the obvious isn't the same to everybody), I think it is reasonable for "the best option" not to be the same for everybody.
The tools we are using are probably part of "ergonomics", and it is well known that ergonomics is nearlly unique to each people.
What are your quirks and irritants on your OS, and what is your typical usage? Maybe by documenting it we could get to be more knowledgeable about this all...
Myself, I do a very wide variety of things on my PC: Office using tables for heavy formula and VBA driven automation; gaming, of course; occasional graphic and video editing; leisure programming, audio editing, CAD; several QoL optimisations; web browsing and streaming; audio composing; peripherals configuration (like guitar pedals, for instance); and a bunch of other stuff depending on my needs. If something can be done with a computer and the need for it arise, I typically dig in, install what's required and get going. I also like to optimize access to my stuff, including macros and all types of shortcuts to quickly launch just what it is I want; but since my memory is awful, I need to be able to configure those shortcuts as required.
I often happen to need to install proprietary programs for peripherals which are always available for Windows, but not so much for other OSs. This is one big of a reason to keep me using Windows.
I also love it when my productivity tools just work, because I tend to push them to their limits. I have often been frustrated with open source solutions; they're awesome for light uses, but I often find them too quirky for my liking.
I learned to live with Windows quirkiness, but I despise it. Personalization which goes away; updates which install on their own when you don't want it and impede you from working, all the while breaking your settings; things which were working just fine who suddenly stop; configuration menus who keep on moving and changing with every new release; useful and simple options which are burried way more deeply than they really should; bloated menus so the usefull stuff just blends in with tons of I-couldn't-care-less features; quick access features which can suddenly just disappear for no reason; program windows who randomly move on multi monitor screens every time the screen saver kicks in; and what's not else. Windows 10 is to me the WORST distribution yet, because it is the one which most gets me searching for what it is I need to configure.
At this point, this OS is so unsensible that I am convinced they mess things up WILLINGLY just so they can sell more formation programs and tech support. This is to me the only sensible explanation for such a mess. Either this or the business is rid with stupid people - which I don't believe a bit. How can you call the going away of the control pannel we all know too well an improvement? Worst case scenario, just keep it as a skin, so we intuitively still are able to find EASILY the settings we are looking for, but don't you EVER remove it and call that "Progress"; I call that a JOKE to any power user out there who hasn't gone through the whole "Certified Windows Courses" program, or however they call it.
At least Linux is not quirky out of ill will: it's just quirky because passionate people are developping it after hours for absolutely FREE. That's still an awesome feat to me; just it doesn't tick all my boxes.
I mean yeah. If you have to fallback to osx then you've probably suffered massive head trauma.
Recently my new PC that i ordered came. Building it was so much fun. What wasnt fun was if i had a problem i couldnt count on youtube. I had a problem with ryzen drivers not installing saying a system update is required to install them. Tried using youtube but on videos with tens of thousands of views wiith a little to no likes all the comments were "it worked" I decided not to trust it and went online to search posts and blogs and such. So for anyone random that also has a problem with that. I saw a guy on reddit and he said that it doesnt update because your regional formatting settings are not English - United States. I changed them and it worked. IDK why thats a problem but there's the fiix.
Chocolatey package manager for windows with a backed up list of programs to install, via import/expert, makes getting windows back to working condition so much better and quicker.
Winget also exists, and is build into windows...
So I know that it exists but I never learned to use it since I was still to much in the windows mindset...
@@imtiredtoday chocolatey I think attempts to use Winget if possible, but I could be remembering wrong
The bloat is the problem. Install the latest version of Ubuntu server and then install your desktop environment on top of it. Don´t do Pop OS. Just execute ubuntu-drivers devices on the terminal and install the latest one.
Multi monitor setups are a problem in Linux. More specifically, x11's problem.
My hope is Wayland fixes this.
I use multiple cad softwares and tuning programs regularly along with Microsoft office specifically to send documents back and forth and edit them. Not even about to attempt to get that kind of stuff up and running on Apple or Linux. I love the idea of Linux, but most places I’m using software on a laptop are job sites with bad cell signal and no wifi, or in someone’s car in a metal building with no wifi or cell signal for a hotspot. I physically can’t search for a workaround online if I show up and something goes screwy with a program, I just don’t get paid.
I think part of the problem is they keep using rolling release distros and then using them for WORK. For gaming, I could see that being helpful, but not for a WORK computer. For work you want something like Debian Stable, or OpenSUSE Leaf. And he could have tried an old fashioned laptop video fix - shut down - pull the battery for 30 seconds - restart. Its magical!
Ubuntu and Mint are not rolling release.
I wish my work used a rolling release distro tbh - instead we use Ubuntu. Which is a problem when engineers want brand new hardware that requires drivers that aren't in the 2+ year old kernel that the the "stable" distros are running. I've spent more time trying to get new hardware working with old releases than I ever would have if we were using an arch-based distro. This is further compounded by the fact that it takes at least 6 months before a new release is sufficiently tested and integrated into our security policies to be able to be used.
And, as noted by oreo, neither of the distros Luke used were rolling release.
Yeah, Ubuntu is OK...but the regular desktop version of it is bloated and not as snappy as other distros. PopOS is a much better UX IMO as they don't do nearly as much with snap packages and the Cosmic desktop (Gnome with extensions and customization) just has many quality of life improvements over what Ubuntu gives you on a fresh install. If I were to run Ubuntu, I wouldn't run the regular desktop version of it, I'd download the server, and then install packages by hand to turn it into a workable graphical environment. For most people though, I just tell them to run Mint or PopOS if they want a good desktop experience.
Ubuntu is very snap encumbered. Which is the problem.
Yeah, that sounds like ubuntu based systems, I really think that ubuntu shouldn't be the entry point, it is very buggy, I dont know how but that kind of things always happens to me when I try them, at this point I think this is why pop os is thinking about changing the base system.
Ubuntu should just be abandoned at this stage, it was a nice sentiment in the beginning, but its been terrible almost a decade now. Arch and RHEL based systems are more stable and reliable in my experience. APT is just horrible. loved yum and annoyed its been renamed to something you cant relate to, but even dnf actually works without destroying itself.
@@macguyfromscotland I love to write pacman to update, anyways, I have tried other systems, some with continuous updates like arch, others with versions like ubuntu, every ubuntu based gets broken easily, the rest tend to be hard to break, my arch ends up suboptimal because some of my changes on configurations, but it is ok, my recommendation for beginners is solus, if I didn't broke that system I dont think any regular user will.
Never had that issue on Ubuntu itself (not popos). The snaps are slow. I always disable them. It's not user friendly to do so.
@@macguyfromscotland Just curious why you dislike apt. As a software engineer, I really don't see that issue as being an apt problem. It's a package builder's problem. Likely popos specific
"Oh my goodness, I was so cheesed!"
I get a kick out of how Luke curses like a wholesome dad.
I've switched to Linux, and I really like Mint... But it just has weird issues. I've switched to Manjaro and it's just great, I've had no issues at all
Wait until you install a random update and your kernel won't boot anymore. Manjaro doesn't properly test updates before foisting them on unsuspecting users. Debian-based distros might not be as cutting edge, but they don't just randomly explode on you
4:12 BAck in original Halo when a map did not allow rocket hack they leave. Rocket jumping was so cool back then
PC is a strange world where you have to pay to be bombarded with adverts and when ya use free software ya have an ad-free experience.
Now, if only the mobile-phone ecosystem was just like that, however we have to choose a low-spec phone for a premium price to get some ad-free and privacy oriented experience (would be worth it if/when I can get one, till then I'll stick to an older phone that doesn't spy as hard on me as the modern phone and will continue to only allow the internetz google etc to know what I'm comfortable in letting them know about I)
Maybe the upcoming OSOM OV1 is up your alley!
Or you could install CalyxOS or GrapheneOS on a premium spec'ed phone like the Pixel 6 Pro so you don't have to compromise hardware for software.
Not sure if you’ve sorted your shoulder out yet but it sounds like a labral tear - I know because I went through the same thing - super not fun.
If you see this - would strongly recommend asking your doc for an MRI
It makes me said to see Luke go. I hope he makes up his mind in the future. I sure hope to see more Linux related videos.
I have had the EXACT same issues with linux as luke has had, like, Linux when its working is Fantastic, to get it working from day dot, a huge ballache, and if something breaks.. good luck trying to figure out whats gone wrong....
I know what you mean though I have been a gui ubuntu / mint user of Linux for years but I have not delved beneath the gui.. recently for whatever reason I have decided to start learning about the grub command line and the Linux TTY Etc. so I think I'm a little better now than I was before but in previous situations if I lost my desktop I was lost. It kind of feels like a typical coming-of-age kind of thing, and a lot of us are late bloomers LOL
I used Ubuntu for 1 year, then due to some dpkg error I tried Debian then I tried MX Linux. No errors so far. They implemented easy GUI tools so there is no need to use terminal.
I have MX Linux installed on a USB drive. I haven't been able to figure out what its selling point is vs. Kubuntu.
To all of you suggesting dual booting that's like someone telling you "well if you really want to get to work all the time you need a second car"
That comparison makes no sense here.
If you're going to insist on a car comparison, high beams and low beams makes a lot more sense. You can get by with just low beams (Windows) pretty much all the time, but sometimes high beams (Linux) are vastly better to have - but high beams can't be used in all situations, like with other traffic or in fog. So you have both.
Your comparison would be if people were telling Luke he should carry around two laptops - one for Linux and one for Windows.
I never had any kind of issue connecting a monitor to a laptop while running Ubuntu. I've used vga, hdmi, and dp just by plugging in the cable. Guess you had bad luck.
Yeah, still to this day, if you want a flawless experience with Linux, you actually need to master it. To know exactly what you want, what hardware you're going to use and what to use, what to configure, what to install, what and when to update, take the time to make a bunch of scripts that will automate your workflow... It's unfair, because you need to climb that whole mountain before getting to the holly grail.
This is the truth that Linux power users will never understand because to them the Linux experience is so normal that they don't even seem to be able to interact with other people anymore.
@Jorge Laughingman At least for windows, most of stuff are plug-and-play. I don't really have to look for video card driver unless i want to squeeze every ounce of performance of the card. For linux as much as I tried, when it breaks, you literally have to start editing files and doing crazy commands and praying that it works.
Linux is an amazing OS for the people with time to use.
Windows is the OS if you do not have time to wast...
@@_foundwayhome or have time to learn a new OS.
Open Office vs Microsoft Office
There is a difference in the product and quality. They can do the same stuff and that is perfect.
@@_foundwayhome I agree. The most importent is that Windows is user friendly and it backwards compatible. + Microsoft give 10 years of software update on the OS.
I know a lot of low end user have diffecult with simpel stuff. If they was to use Linux they will be total lost...
Linux is amazing server solution.
I do daily drive linux, for work as well. Here's the thing: daily driving linux is like driving a racing car on the road, you need to be a pilot.
Ubuntu really is janky, of all the popular distros it is probably the slowest. It is a shame because it is a really great distro, very polished
Hmmm. It's fine if you stick to the LTS versions.
It's the result of them wanting to do their own thing. They use snap while flatpak exists, and they'll not back down because they've spent a long time developing it. They also fork their own version of Gnome store, which I don't get why. And they also put Gnome extension out of the box, which could break more than pure Gnome (the dock used to freeze the whole shell if used with touchscreen lol).
it's really not if you stick to LTS, the other releases have only short term support.
You know, I am a devoted Ubuntu MATE user, which is so darn good and virtually bulletproof (for me) however every now and then an update rolls in and my screen borks. Thankfully now I know exactly how to fix it when it happens very quickly, but damn is it annoying.
None of these issues however will ever, ever make me jump back over to Windows.
Because you hate Windows on principle?
If your an employee, you cant say to your boss that "Oh I installed linux, but i had to spend time fixing a problem instead of doing work", if you say that to your boss hes going to either say "stop waisting time", or "your fired"
I mean, if you work at somewhere horrible lol. At Google, you had a programmer literally taking their time to teach you Linux if you used it and it was encouraged.
This is a weird comment. You wouldn't just install Linux on a machine just because. Usually, you are told what OS you can use. As a software engineer, I use Linux for development since we deploy on Linux servers, but I was also given a Windows machine.
And yet so many companies waste so many hours because of Windows or some other MS app (Outlook?) behaving, but that's "normal" so people don't even complain about this.
@@francoisrevol7926 The think about problems on windows NT based platforms is that when there are problems, the solution are most of the time documented and easily fixable, since there isnt like 50 different distros that all try to do the same thing differently.
@@reki353 From experience this isn't true. Sometimes it's documented yes, with something like "Yes it's a bug. No there's no solution."
And good luck patching the code then 😀
I've had the opposite problem, Samsung laptop, originally on windows 8, making bluetooth work on win 10 is a pain, had to manually test a bunch of drivers because standard one windows picks only half works, install linux and it just works, no pain no nothing, just works.
I wish windows had real competition and they could do so much better but the only other good choice is Apple and so we keep still but my galaxy can dex mode and it is nice but I have to use android apps and you can't play steam on android OS and I think they should make a compatible version for that
The Mac Operating System might be a good alternative... however back before apple silicon their hardware sucked, but there was at least hackintosh, but now with apple silicon ur stuck with whatever apple decides to make...even if MAC OS had a chance to compete with windows, Apple runined it.
When people get sick of windows errors. Usually is caused of drivers not being updated but pc is fully updated on all security issues.
When a pc is fully updated on security updates but sound,usb,network,video gets out of date then windows does tend to have issues.