Is Rogue One a Good Star Wars Story?
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
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Is Rogue One a good Star Wars story? here I examine the narratives and story arcs in Rogue One and see if they live up to the star wars standard. - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I really liked the film. It was the first major Star Wars movie that was told within the Star Wars Universe without having really important characters as the lead. No one was a Jedi or a Sith, no one had any special powers. All of the main characters were just normal people - or robots who were fighting for the rebellion.
I liked the film because it made the Star Wars universe seem more realistic. Hopefully more films like this one will be made in the future.
Playsnetwork why does star wars need to be realistic? I think we've already got our "realism" through characters
So because the characters were not special and the world seemed more realistic the film is somehow good? HAHA fuck off.
Gabriel C that's what I'm saying
Lol these people replying completely missed the point of your comment.
All hes saying is he liked the film because it took risks and made the Star Wars galaxy seem more like, a galaxy. And not just focus on one family for three films.
So, it's missing exactly all of the reasons that people love the franchise....?
Nobody wants realism in Star Wars, that's why we watch it: *escapism*
Is it flawed? Yeah. Is it bad? Hell no.
THIS.
@Musta Krackish Better than the Last Jedi and the Prequels by far.
@@NFStrife Indeed. It's my favorite Star Wars movie of the Disney era.
Its fucking atrocious
tatin82 comparing shit to sparkly shit isn’t a good comparison
I really appreciate you pointing out the flaws but also showing where the movie was coming from and why the good parts felt good.
52 Studios I personally dont think it’s a great film and feel there are a lot of bad bits however I still enjoyed it and loved the good bit and I would love to see a second viewing as it was pretty fun
@@keyan1219 you have over exposer syndrome! This movie is the best star wars film to date. Better than all pre/sequels.
Thoughts no
The “detour” sequence where Jyn witnesses her father die isn’t HER call to action; it’s CASSIEN’S. Cassien begins to see the flaws in the Rebellion and his ruthlessly following of orders, however cold those directives are.
Yes, but it puts the focus on Jyn and thus repeats itself. Likewise it creates the problem that she sides with the people who just murdered her dad, whom the films wants us to believe she cares about.
Cassian
But she gets from her Father that he made a big sacrifice to build a flaw into the Death Star and she realises she needs to honour him and carry out the rest of his plan to get the Death Star plans. This gives her the purpose she lacked. Seeing him in teh flesh and having her die cemented her resolve to get the Death Star plans. Before she saw him in teh flesh she was not all in. Yes she knows the Rebels killed him but she rebells against their wishes by stealing the shuttle and going Rogue. She does not exactly side with the Rebels - she seems to stay emotionally focus on her Fathers legacy as her main priority I would say.Once she sees teh hologram of him she is 50% committed and once she sees him and he dies she is 100% committed to getting the Death Star plans.
100% agreed
@@arrowknee7356 wasn't his death more a collateral damage kinda thing?
This is the first time I realised that there are people who didn't like Rogue One and I'm baffled. Rogue One was genuinely great!
Rogue one is at best a meh story. I mean people who dont like it dont need to make a big deal of it. There are good enjoyable element in there however when you compare to other it is lacking.
TLJ > RO.
And we're equally baffled that you think it's genuinely great because it was literally eh alright. Two sides of the same coin.
TheRiisingSun This.
for every one thing that exists, you can bet someone out there hates it for existing.. like, they're big mad about it
Isn't the whole point of the anthology films is that they are free from having to be a "star wars" story, and instead can just be their own thing while happening in the same world of star wars?
Alec McInnis yes but rogue one was written to try to get us to care about the characters but they never go deep with the characters
They don't portray it like a war film though, it's not like Dunkirk where the event happening is the main focus. Rogue One is structured to be based around the characters. When your story is structured around characters and your characters aren't interesting it's no that enjoyable to watch in the long run.
@@IP_Films01 Rogue One was not about characters. It was about getting the Death Star plans. Literally every single character in the movie, except Jyn, can be removed and swapped with Rebel guy #67 or Droid #13, and even Jyn is only needed for the plot.
You can’t go very deep with characters with so little screen time. But... we had something to take home about all the Rogue One team. Enough to give a damn and regret it when they passed, one by one.
I actually preferred them to the new trilogy characters. Also... we already have an affinity and sympathy for the Rebellion, while the Resistance and First Order are just so lacking that we don’t care.
Loved the breakdown of Finn. When people say he was a weak or useless character, I feel like we watched a different movie. He goes from a stormtrooper, to a man who simply wants to run away and hide from everything, to finally standing up against the organization that's basically run his entire life in order to save his first real friend. At the end, he's injured, but he's going to be okay, and he's found a new sense of belonging in the Resistance. It's the clearest arc in the whole movie.
TJ Hastie so he is shocked by the horror of what happens to people during battle, sees his best friend die in front of him. And then proceeds to escape, whilst slaughtering dozens of his old comrades.
I've always been confused by this criticism, it's very clear by how the moment is presented that it's the violence the First Order inflicts on the villagers that traumatizes him, not the sight of blood.
Well, yeah, because it isn't "the horror of what happens to people during battle", it is the horror of what his comrades do without a second thought to innocent, unarmed people. He is not only shocked by what happens, but how it happens.
Thus his need to remove his helmet when he is back aboard the ship to get fresh air, because he is not only trying to process what has happened, but coming to terms with being surrounded by people who could act that way.
So the "slaughtering" of his old comrades isn't a problem for him, because he has disassociated from them so completely from that first moment we see him to that point. They aren't his comrades, they are faceless, remorseless evil, appearing to him as they have always been presented to us.
TJ Hastie Finn was a weak character & this video only further serves that point. The narrator is adding his layers of story telling. None of which appears in the film. Why did Finn turn good? He was raised by the First Order & never had a chance to question them. Why does he give two shits about Rey? She's some random women he just met & initially she attacked him. Finn serves no actual purpose in the story. He comes off as racist caricature of a runaway slave. He's literally just a plot device to pump up the awesomeness of Rey.
I feel like Finn in the script and Finn in the film are different characters, based purely on his actions and words this video has managed to generate a fantastic character. But in TFA I feel the tone serves to undercut him. He has layers of depth, but it's a film that seems superficially shallow.
All of the characters have pretty well-defined arcs, btw. They're not super-deep, for the most part, but in an ensemble war-movie, they're not really supposed to be:
1. Jyn - only cares about saving herself until she realizes her father wasn't a bad guy after all, so now she wants to fulfill his last wishes as her way of connecting with the father she never really got know.
2. Cassian - troubled by what he has to do for the Rebellion, and always follows orders, until he realizes he has to break orders to do what's best for the Rebellion, and finally do something he can be proud of.
3. Baze - has lost all faith in the Force, and only cares about watching out for Chirrut, until he realizes that the Force was helping them all along and there's more to life than staying alive.
4. Chirrut - is a devout follower of the Force but is often discredited by those who have lost faith. Is finally validated by his miraculous walk to the switch.
5. Bodhi - Is ashamed of his participation with the Empire but is also a bit cowardly. Has to reach deep within himself to find the courage to do the right thing.
6. K2 - hates Jyn and has trouble trusting anyone not named Cassian, eventually learns to care about Jyn and trust her
How are these arcs, if they aren't developed at any point between the establishing of the character and the character's untimely end?
Like I said, in another comment: it's an ensemble cast where the event takes center stage. The character arcs are secondary to the event. That said, the arcs are developed throughout the movie, even if you didn't notice it.
Robb Hays gets it.
Yeah, spectacle over substance. That was this movie through and through. May it be eaten by a Sarlacc.
As was said in this very CZcams video, the main character of the movie IS the Rebellion. Rogue One serves to develop the character of the Rebellion much more than any one of the individual characters. It's a Star Wars movie for Star Wars fans. And a dang good one, to boot, IMO.
_Rogue One: A Star Wars Story_ is the best Star Wars movie since _Return of the Jedi_ . The darker and grittier tones is what makes it so unique and works to its advantage, and fits in with the theme of what it transition to to and what proceeds its story. Dark, bleak, and hopeless to a rebellion finally able to take the risks they need to.
Yeah I loved that bleakness - and the theme of Hope was so clever as it made the title "A New Hope" make sense when it never made sense to me before.
True!
Return of the Jedi is probably, screenplay-wise, the worst film of the entire franchise. Its execution is miles better than the prequels and it rests on the shoulders of better films than the sequel trilogy has in store, but it has a nonsensical first act, a non-existent second act where two of the three leads become glorified extras without conflict or character flaw to overcome (Han and Leia), and a third act with three intercutting arcs one and a half of which actually work. The throne room scene is brilliant, but the Endor part of the third act is as boring as it gets, and the space battle works as best as it can given that no major character is up there except Lando who clearly was meant by no character arc to die, so the small amount of tension that builds up does so by having the rebels getting their butts kicked with yet another Death Star.
The second act is completely devoid of conflict, with Luke's internal struggle never materializing into the story before the third act. It could have been easy to have his identity and parentage known of the Rebel Alliance and have the rebels start to question Luke's status and intensions to externalize his conflict. It could have been easy to have Han not trust Lando immediately after having last been betrayed by him, and turn this defiance into a proper subplot that would have made evolve both Han and Lando, and possibly Leia. Why wasn't Han even a slightly bit awkward after months in carbonite. Why not write him as being slightly melancolic of his former life ?
To conclude, I'm afraid that to say that Rogue One is the best Star Wars film since Return of the Jedi is probably not the best compliment to be paid to this film, which I enjoyed, though slightly forgot. Return of the Jedi at least has the lead and the villain right when they're on screen, which is I think more than Rogue One. Rogue One had a good DP and a good director as far as action sequences are concerned, and a thematic cohesiveness that can be singled out. But it has no characters and no arcs.
And the fact all characters died on Scarif, because of Death Star making it more darker . We see them dying instead of extermination of Alderaan (I'm not blaming)
@@freedomvideos2156 What's the point of seeing them dying if we haven't got to see them living and interacting properly and you know... being compelling characters ? RO mistakenly thinks that a sad ending will make up for that. But unfortunately, although many of the visuals in the movie are incredible, especially those of the Death Star, the characters themselves are bland and forgettable.
I love Rogue One. It's my favorite Star War movie. That being said, I agree with everything you said about the characters. I agree that they're all underdeveloped, but I also don't think they should be the focus of the movie. It's supposed to be a war film, not a typical Star Wars story of heroes defeating villains. Sure, in the past Star Wars has been very character-driven, but just because this movie is different doesn't make it bad. The reason I love this movie so much is because of how much it adds to the OT once you understand what the Rebellion has been through to get the Death Star plans. It also has the best action sequence of any Star Wars movie. And I also love how risky it was in killing off the entire cast. Their deaths were emotional and impactful, and it really felt like their sacrifices were the reason the Empire was defeated. So yeah, I think this is a great Star War story.
This movie actually surprised me, it’s my favorite Star Wars Movie
Tbh I love Rogue One but for all the reason many Star Wars purists hate it. It shows that the rebellion isn't the light to the empire's dark, the yin to their yang if you will, it's more like two sides of the same coin. They murder they plot and become terrorists for the sake of their cause, and Cassian is the perfect example of that same thing. The third act is what cements the reason why the rebellion works for me. Why they're "the good guys" and why you should root for them. Why, while they may have done some of the same bad things as the empire, they will without any fear do the right thing, even sacrificing themselves, for the greater good and for the sake of the galaxy's future. Rogue One may not be a great Star Wars story but it's a fantastic movie that shows that the rebellion are real people with flaws that will do everything and anything for their cause. Thank you for the video. I love your content.
I feel like those ideas about the moral grey were great but weren't executed well enough. The only real shocking moment is when whatever that guys name killed his informant at the beginning of the film. The rest of the plot meandered along without much depth in my opinion. The ending attack was great and really created some good tension but that was the only real exciting part of the film to me. Most of the characters aren't really memorable as well.
i've never seen a 'star wars purist' say they didn't like rogue one because it makes some of the charcters grey.
Yeah, because it's not a serial story. It's a one-off. There's no point to going to get detail over a bunch of characters who are going to die asap. Also, the original star wars had half the hero cast to introduce all of us to, so they could take the time to go into detail over Luke, Leia, and Han.
And do people forget just how badly written and acted the original was? Oh lord, a New Hope is hella cringy.
There's also nothing original about the story while at least Rogue One attempted something different.
So its not valid criticism to say the characters are underdeveloped just because its a spin-off movie? That's pretty bullshit, a story is a story no matter if its its own thing or part of a franchise. There is a point to developing them and getting into detail about them because it makes the story more compelling. If I'm emotionally invested in the characters then my viewing experience is worlds better, especially during the climax because I don't want these characters to die.
The movie doesn't get to wash over the underdeveloped characters just because the original series had 3 movies to flesh them out. Look at A New Hope as a stand alone film and the character development is far better. Luke goes from a farmhand dreaming of a better life to a galactic hero, Han goes from a selfish smuggler to a hero who returns to help his friends.
Allison Walker Oh don't give me that crap. The heroes are gonna die so they shouldn't even bother developing them? Imagine if filmmakers had the same idea when making Citizen Kane, The Wild Bunch, Reservoir Dogs, Apocalypse Now or Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid. This is exactly when you should develop a character to their fullest, since you know the ending of their story and the limited time frame gives their characterization a focus. They're going on a suicide mission, we should know the reason why and at what cost.
It's a war film. It's not supposed to be character driven. It's event-driven. The characters are there to act as our window into the event, not the other way around. And it was brilliantly-done, IMO. We care just enough about the characters to be a little sad when they die, but we're not supposed to feel sad at the end, we're supposed to feel hopeful. And we do, because the Rebels win, even if the main characters die. I loved it. One of the best Star Wars movies, even if probably the "least Star Wars-y" of the bunch.
Character driven War films are better than plot or action driven ones. So I don't understand your point.
But events are about characters and their conflicts.
kinda like how when that kid in saving private ryan blew up because he didnt secure his makshift sticky bomb in time isnt supposed to be super sad- its just another horror of war scene. which actually are in plenty of starwars films too- one I noticed and its stuck with me alot is the camera following the N1 starfighter in episode 1 that gets shot by the Droid tank- normally our gaze would just stay up because the scene is just saying-the pilots are going to the space. but instead the last one gets hit and we follow it all the way Down. Which transitions into Padmes decoy party getting captured before the ruse is revealed later. its alot of ton shifting in a simular fashion that kid blowing up is followed by that dude failing to get ammo to the entrenched allies-and having to know that his inaction basically killed his friends while their killer just walks by him letting him live cause hes too scared to fight.
Saving Private Ryan is one of my favorite war films and it's completely character driven.
This is just stupid. Most war films, especially the good ones, are character driven. Most war films that aren't character driven are just going to generic action movies set during a war. And if it was event driven, not character driven the movie still fails since the first event that actually matters happens when Jyn meets Saw Guerra on Jedda and there's a whole three plot points that actually matter to the movie.
I am going to disagree, not with your analysis, because it is quite solid, but with your underlying premise. You build everything on the idea that "character" is the single most important thing in being a Star Wars story. While character is certainly important, it is most important in the core stories. However, for those of us who love the extended cannon things are very different. Many different creators have done many different things in varying styles throughout the course of all Star Wars media, and the world of Star Wars is richer for the diversity.
I would argue that it is the clear goal, and stated task, of The Force Awakens line of stories to truly follow in most core elements of the original films, and they do this incredibly effectively especially when it comes to character. But for those of us who thoroughly enjoy the extended cannon, we are delighted at the concept of a line of official films under the heading of "A Star Wars Story" as a place where enormous numbers of stories of varying focus, style, and even tone, can be told in this world we love. I personally saw it as the franchises nod to the extended cannon, a cannon they said no longer applied. But then they released this beautiful messy and most importantly, different film and to me it was a promise that although we were re-starting, a new extended star wars universe was indeed happening!
You are absolutely correct. Rogue one has weak underdeveloped characters. I believe it does this on purpose. The central question of the film is "What does sacrifice for a cause look like and is it worth it?" To that end we experience what we as humans are likely to experience in such actual situations. We as we contemplate sacrifice for a cause we will not get to see or experience the backstories of our fellows. All we get are snippets, subtle emotional tells, and vague shortened explanations, hinting at deeper more complicated motivation. And with the glaring exception of the acting of Jyn Erso, most of the cast pulls this incredibly difficult task off beautifully.
TLDNR - Character is important and while this film didn't focus on it, it is doing something different and they did it well!
the movies still boring tho
Characters are the backbone of any story, no matter your intent. If your story does not have strong characters, the story loses any chance it has at being compelling.
WanderKrew and yet it’s being compared to the force awakens, with a Mary Sue, and storm trooper that leaves the first order after seen his fellow storm trooper die yet goes thru with killing every storm trooper that gets in his way without hesitation, a villain we never really meet and a sub villain with bipolar disorder, so get to the point, some of the worst written characters in cinema,
They did it perfectly. It was one of the best mac guffin movies out there. They got the job done, and but could not get the reward.
This makes me think of fury, but the tank movie.
@@forsakenwarrior814 absolutely disagree. This movie wasn't about the chscters, it was about achieving an objective. It wasn't about personal Growth, it was about getting the job done inpite of the odds. Its about not giving up, and self sacrifice for the greater cause.
This movie was great, but but it wasn't a star wars movie.
The main reason I love this movie is because of the beautiful cinematography
I love Rogue One and it was the first time I saw any moral nuance in Star Wars since I played KOTOR. It makes the universe feel so much more real and alive knowing that there can be corrupt good guys and likable bad guys. It's the same reason Finn is by far my favorite character of the new trilogy, because of how interesting his position is.
I love rogue one for being the story about the party rather than the character. Feels refreshing. I want to watch a similar movie where the story is about the Empire rather than the character. The side spin off story should be about the faction rather than character.
This is the only star wars film I’ve enjoyed since the original trilogy. I really loved the beautiful tropical beach fight and sorta wwii stile. I also liked the bitter sweet ending and fighting s loosing battle them. I seem to like thos Idk why. Lol
6:57 "A tragic moment without any emotional context"
yeah I guess that explains why I'm crying
I really do love this movie, I truly feel emotional watching this. I am really grateful that this movie is made
I really appreciate this video. It feels like a lot of people have had something to say about Rogue One and how the characters are flat. I appreciate your relatively brief explanation of the characters and I appreciate your call to Lessons from the Screenplay as it feels like you watched that video, internalized it, and then built on it successfully. I feel like you brought something new to the table by describing the rebellion itself as having a character arc with solid evidence which is something I did not fully consider before. Solid content. Thanks for making this.
i LOOOOVE "Rogue One"! I've probably watched it like 30 times on Netflix. I didn't grow up a Star War fan, so I never had the same appreciation of the saga like OG-fans. But when I saw Rogue One I said, If this is how OG-fans feel about the original trilogy, I can see why they love them so much.
This is really solid stuff, man! You're improving a lot, and your editing is really unique and breaks the norm. I agree with many the points presented here, too.
Loving this review man!!! Was super awesome meeting you at youtube space. Keep up these amazing videos.
This long-ass video essay...I love it. Always a good day when you upload!
Really liked this. A worthy counterpoint to Michael Tucker's video!
Who the hell is Michael Tucker
Nice work! Loving your channel
Rogue One bears a shocking resemblance to another film that year: Fantastic Beasts.
Both of those films have character problems, but the excel in service to the world they create. Fantastic Beasts has some of the best world building I've ever seen in a film, and Rogue One is pretty solid too.
Both also have a secondary lead (Jacob and Cassian) who's much more interesting and compelling than the main protagonist (Newt and Jyn).
Awesome analysis, man! Brilliant work! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
What a well thought out and cohesive video, is good, thanks
Its weird. The more I watch TFA, the more I like it. And the more I watch RO, the less I like it.
When I left after first seeing TFA I was like "That was fun. Bit unoriginal but fun nevertheless." Now I think it's one of the best modern movies iv seen in a long while. I even think it's better than ROTJ. I see how much work went into developing the characters and the overall story. Plus you can see and feel all love and dedication that went into making it. And I think since its release, it's got allot of unfair hate.
After seeing RO I was like "That was fucking awesome! It was a great build up the original trilogy! That Vader scene at the end was incredible!" Now I think RO is just a fun popcorn flick. Nothing more.
Weird... bc I'm the complete opposite :P
TFA is s***. It is so bad. 0 rewatch value.
@@Sbock86 Id disagree. It's a good film which I still really enjoy four years after the release.
You're right, this movie makes a lot more sense in the context that the main arc is centered around the rebellion as a whole. Kind of makes this movie less like Star Wars, and more like Dunkirk. I think the main question is does an event-driven plot like that work in the Star Wars cinematic universe (I think it works fine in the TV or video game universe.)
After 3 years and watching the movie a few times, I think it may be my favorite Star wars movie!
I admit I'm bias, because I like star wars movies and I really like spy movies.
So mixing a spy movie with a star wars movie? It's like everything I've ever wanted in a movie.
This was an excellent nuanced perspective. Thank you for the eloquent reason.
Great video! Never thought to think of Rogue One as about the Rebellion as a whole instead of just the characters. Thanks for the insight.
The movie doesn't work for many reasons, some of which you outlined. The character arcs were basically non existent. However you just can't compare a secondary character of Rogue One to a Main character of Force Awakens. All in all, nice video. The story didn't need to be told, it didn't make me like any new characters. I still had fun watching it though. As a Star Wars fan I enjoyed learning more about the politics and the rebellion.
You weren't meant to like these characters. Sympathize with them? Sure. But like them enough for them to be remembered as great characters? Nope.
The point was that these characters are nobodies. They mean nothing other than their lives. Luke, Leia, and Han are all larger than life, morally good, and fantastic characters. Rogue one is *purposely* a movie about mediocre people who are morally mediocre. There is nothing special about them on purpose.
Jessies friends in "Breaking Bad" are also nobodies who are morally mediocre. I still liked and remembered them...
I disagree. What you said sounds like an apologist's excuse for why they were poorly developed. The main character, Jyn Erso, was initially an apathetic citizen fending for only herself but she does have an arc. She learns a small amount about her father and then wants to take down the empire to the point of sacrificing her life. She isn't supposed to be mediocre at all, she just wasn't developed well. We don't really get to see her motivation and then once she takes a stand we watch her fold at the first sign of opposition. It's the secondary character that motivates her to try again. Weak weak.
that is the worst excuse for shitty characters i have ever heard
Garrett Tipton
You can't just brush off critisism with "it's meant to be bad". It ends the argument, and not in a good way. If we weren't supposed to care about Jyn than why did the movie try so hard to make us care for Jyn and her father?
I may never remember anyone but kassian and jyn- but I will remember in great detail what happens in the movie. they sold me on the character of the rebelion as it was before the original trilogy which to me always seemed better organized than a bunch of desperate independents like theyre were framed to be. this movie also re-contextualizes the EMPIRE as something truly dominating and grande- and grossly abusive. something you really dont see much of in the original trilogy. it blows up a town just because Saw Gerrera is nearby. a level of petty thats not really sold to you in the first film- even though they blow up alderaan you dont even know what alderaan is. you just know what youre told- and its only impactful because A: Tarkin is toying with leia and b:thosee effects were soo ahead of their time,
I just want to point out that the autogenerated captions think that Finn's scream at 3:37 is applause and it's hilarious.
I disagree about rogue one not having any strong characterization. Their personalities and motivations are there, they're just not shoved down your throat. You need to pay attention to glean them, maybe even watch the movie a couple times, focusing on the characters' reactions to things, and not just the things themselves
I found that exactly! It is more subtle and nuanced and intelligent - I have watched it 3 times on the big screen and each time I got more and more from the characters. I love it it is one of the best Star Wars movies for me. Jyn and Cassian move me.
I liked how you said "make" instead of "take" at the end there. That was clever.
I adore Rogue One and I’m happy that you did point out that the movie’s central character is actually the Rebellion. Also, you out a Vader scene in that good and I’ll watch anything. Even the Last Jedi.
Are you gonna decide to make a bad video at some point? Or is everything gonna continue to be top notch?
Great analysation, subscribed
I honestly would have preferred Finn be the Jedi, I feel like it would've meant more. He's a character who started on the wrong side, then ran away from everything, then stood up for himself and the people he cares about.
Reel Ascension i thought he was at first lol
It's one of my all time fav star wars movie
Right after the original trilogy
Which gets you harder? Slave Leia? Or Darth Vader's hallway massacre?
Rogue was my favorite mostly because of the Amazing CGI and because it showed more of the Empire..
I absolutely loved Rogue One. It's probably tied with Empire Strikes Back, at this point. I loved the old EU; maybe it just reminds me of that - seeing all the underlying life and gears of the galaxy. I really appreciated your point about the movie being about the rebellion instead of characters, too.
The Darth Vader - Halo multikill thing got me good. Subscribed. Excellent points and well executed.
Your videos are actually getting better. Content wise, sure. But editing and style wise, definitely. The "ISN'T" timed with the explosion was hilarious. Good work.
Whoa dude! This was a great essay!
"To me Sci, science fiction- it's not about special effects or giant battles between the forces of good and evil." " Science fiction is about using speculative scenarios as a lens to examine the human condition". - Ted Chiang. Writer of Story of your life (Arrival movie). A great science fiction story must have great character depth and human relationship for it to flourish.. The original Star Wars had many great characters who were genuine, relatable and who tied into the story perfectly with great character arcs. For this reason, Rogue One never got me invested into it's story and sadly not one of my favourites.
I disagree. While that is a fantastic quote, and one I tend to agree with, I must disagree with your conclusion. I think we got a fantastic viewing of the human condition in this movie specifically because we didn't really dive deep into any one character. With this movie, we got to see what happens when the "everyman" goes up against what amounts to a god.
What follows is just my take on the movie and why I enjoyed it.
Think of Rogue One like this: The Rebellion is the common man. Sometimes we do shitty things (Like Cassian when he kills his informant), sometimes we have a crisis of faith (like Baze), sometimes we spend our lives doing the wrong thing and try to atone for our sins (Like Bodhi and Galen), and sometimes we're to scared/lazy to take action when it is needed (like the leaders of the Rebellion). But, at the end of the day, we are more or less decent people.
The Empire is "the system." Whether you think that system is the government, corporations, religion, or something else is entirely up to you, but whatever it is, it's corrupt and it needs changing.
Rogue One examines what it's like for the everyman during an important point in history. The original Trilogy is like our history textbooks. They gloss over the reality of war and kind of glamorize what goes on, choosing just a few plucky heroes to focus on.
Rogue One attempts to examine the reality of history. That is, change is made up of the blood and crushed bones of nobodies. And the screenwriting reflects that. The characters are forgettable because that's how the creators of Rogue One wanted them to be. They are forgettable because we tend to forget the people who didn't win.
Star Wars is a fantasy story, not sci fi.
It's kind of ironic because the one thing the original Star Wars trilogy is not is science fiction as you describe it! There is more sci-fi in Arnie's Total Recall or even the original Robocop than there is in Star Wars which is basically adventure set in space. What makes it awesome is that it is *awesome* adventure set in space, not that it is high concept sci-fi. None of the drama comes from either technology or magic (sorry, I mean "The Force") it comes from the relationships between the characters and that is not a characteristic of sci-fi it is a characteristic of good writing in any genre.
I like how you put in the wipes.
I grew up playing Star Wars Battlefront 2....the original version. I played the hell out to that game, unlocking all the special weapons to turn me into an overpowered super soldier. But every so often, I'd unplug the memory card of my PS2, fire up a conquest battle on Felucia, set the reinforcement count to max....and just role-play as that "un-known soldier". The random guy embroiled the horror of war, bogged down in a futile stalemate in some hostile swamp filled back world, fighting with out hope as his comrades are mowed down by the millions.
I know star wars has always been character driven, but I really liked Rogue One precisely because it took a step away from that. Watching it brought back memories of my time playing BF2 and it gave a more common folk snapshot into star wars, rather than focusing on the "heroes". It didn't need to focus on the characters as much as that wasn't entirely the point.
Lastly, and I know this is a really un-orthodox opinion, but sometimes I find under developed characters are more compelling. Having a vague snapshot leaves more up the audience's imagination, and in turn gives them more room creative freedom. It may sound counter intuitive as the whole point of seeing a movie is have a story told for you.....but still....sometimes I enjoy a book or movie more if some parts are left to my imagination.
I didn't care about any deaths in this movie. And there was so many. The Darth Vader scene at the end saved the movie for me and it didn't end up to be a huge disappointment. Visuals were stunning though...
Maybe the approach to Rogue one is what makes me like it more than The Force Awakens despite it being a much better movie. They took a new direction.
Inaccurate Flicks i don't think they did. IMO They just saved the movie making it look this way. Rogue One is a destiny and chosen one movie (StarWars) about Jyn:
She fights. Why? Do we get to know her? No. But we get to know Saw Guerrera, the one who trained her.
She is destined to be the leader of RO mission: Is she anyhow special? Yes, she is daughter of Galen Erso, he makes her special.
(First two acts were about Galen and Saw and by heritage, Jyn).
It is a movie about characters accepting their destiny. The added some shots that made it look like it was an original take about the rebellion, but this was only for fanservice reasons (Vade, Tarkin, Mon mothma, deathstar, who is Gonna be in charge of deathstar, etc).
i preffer a better made film than a failed experiment that tried too hard to be diferent.. and that last sentence describe zack snyder carrer in a nutshell
Fascinating video!
2:45 "We see him experience the terror that the storm troopers inflict on other and he refuses to take part in their massacre".
Fan theory: maybe all storm troopers have been experiencing the same feelings and simply decide to shoot but never hit anything. Because if Star Wars history has taught us anything, it's that a storm trooper can't hit the broad side of a barn with a bucket of paint.
That confetti got me good
Thanks, learned lots.
I would argue in a way Rogue One *intends* to not build characters, but draw a bigger picture, a situation. Drop us into war and see that war like a documentary rather than a "is our hero okay"-story.
Honestly that never bothered me, I liked that it was different, and how it was different. It showed a "brutality" (=realism that doesn't save every character that has a name) that I miss in pretty much every other SciFi, Hero or Fantasy movie.
Don't get me wrong, I love your analysis, but I love the movie more. ;)
I found Rogue One all the more emotionally intense because it is merciless in telling us and its characters that they are expendable tools and the war won't hesitate to devour them. It sets a tone right away that tells the audience: This movie won't hesitate to kill off any or all of these guys, but first, we're going to make you like them. And they did - I felt like they all have heart, and there are bonds between them that make you care as much as they care for each other...
Great video! You should do more Star wars content
What’s depressing is despite the glaring holes in parts of Rogue One it’s still one of the better Disney Star Wars movies
I laughed my ass off when you tossed in that halo announcer clip
Compared to TLJ and ROS...Rogue 1 is an incredible movie and fit's into the Star Wars universe unlike the other 2 I mentioned.
I think all the points you make about it being "different" and potentially "subpar" is ... perhaps the exact reasons I love it so much. The "temporary" and incomplete existence of character story arcs ... I felt like it served the purpose to showcase a short period of time where general folks made sacrifices to help the rebellion finally hit the empire where it hurts. I felt like it was a brilliant "star wars story" ... while not being a ripoff of star wars "mainline" films. It had a very short and well crafted point. To some degree I appreciate and enjoyed this film more than EP VII and VIII .
The Rebellion as "the main character". Great call !!
Amazing video
If they were trying to make the Galactic Civil War more morally grey, they should have included the Empire doing good things and not just the Rebellion doing bad things.
It's a gritty war film, and honestly I hope they do more of these type of films
This movie is an event-driven movie much in the same way Halo Reach was an event-driven game. It's not about the individual characters, even if they drive the story. It's about the mass entities as a whole, as stated at the end of the video. In Halo Reach, the plot was less about the characterization of Noble Team, who have _very_ similar levels of characterization as Rogue One, and more about watching Humanity fail and die before the onslaught of the Covenant. There are tons of scenes that reflect this: the first reveal of the Covenant, the reveal of the Supercarrier, the arrival of the fleet immediately after the carrier is destroyed, the Fall of Alexandria, and Noble Six being left behind as the Pillar of Autumn escapes.
Similar events happen in Rogue One, albeit with a different theme in mind. It was there to show the scummy nature of fighting and warfare, that plot armor doesn't save most people. It showed how the Rebellion had to fight dirty and fast before fleeing, and only when an opportunity to strike a serious blow presented itself did the Rebellion mount an assault on a well-defended world. And even when they do that, most of them die anyway, except for those on the Tantive IV.
Both examples were never about the characters, a staple of Star Wars movies, but about giving a different perspective on the universe and its people
Emprie Strikes Back is not because of its structure the best Star Wars Movie. This is Star Wars!
I was not a big fan of Star Wars, until I watched this movie a few times in a short time and realised this movie has the magic.
This movie build the ultimatavie immersion for the universe. Disney producer and George Lucas dont understand the magic of this movie.
They think they have to build structure, storylines, surprise us, subvert expectations, explain technology or annoy us with intellectual ideologies...similar to Prometheus, lol.
New Hope installed the Universe, build the characters and moved the plot. It could end there like many movies did in this time.
Instead we got the perfect second movie. Well balanced, emotional, never boring moving plot, well fit characters and a perfect ending.
Switch jedha and eadu and have jyns arc be her looking for her father's killer(eadu can be a call to action). Hunting the killer down to jedha where she finds the message and decides to work for the rebellion to stop her father's creation
Better structured story
Fantastic video essay, I really enjoyed it, and while I agree that Rogue One does lack the satisfying character arcs that the other star wars film thrive on, it does so in service of the tone and atmosphere of the film. It's a messy, scary, depressing film about clinging on when all hope feels lost, and I felt so satisfied with its portrayal of that when I came out of the cinema 10 months ago that I would call the film a success.
Weird, this video didn't show in my sub box. Hope that doesn't affect the view count in anyway
proceeds to Shake fist in the air. Always a good reminder to click the bell icon to never miss a vid.
Hi Cutshort
What is this a crossover episode? Haha I love Cutshort and Films&Stuff! Favorite under appreciated channels! :)
10:26 "Slayer" and "Team Slayer" aren't multiplayer medals in Halo, they're the names of gametypes being announced.
Wonderful breakdown. I'd add my own thoughts but it's late and I have to get up early :/
Loved the animation at 9:21, made me blow cornflakes back out my face.
Felicity Jones' cheekbones are the sharpest part of the plot.
I think Rogue One was really only meant to be a film, as you said, about the rebellion, not the characters, like Dunkirk. I thought it worked, and I still love the film to this day.
thats a dumb excuse to have bad characters.
Actually, you have a point. Thinking about it now I remember caring more for the old man in the boat, Tom Hardy and the crew on the beach than Jin Erso and her team.
Those Halo effects killed me, earned a sub purely on video production. I disagree with some aspects of your film critiques as a huge Rouge One fan; but this video and channel deserves a like and a sub. Well done.
"The way I like to work is to... create visuals that would be great, and then you try and find a way of linking them all" - Gareth Edwards, interview with WIRED
Says it all, really. Rogue One is visually stunning, but the narrative feels like a disjointed byproduct in service of set pieces.
Ian Hannah interestingly rogue nation was the same way but I found it far superior and was shocked when I learned that
Blake Burg The difference, I think, comes on two levels. First of all, the characters and their arcs, while simple, are clearly defined. Tom Cruise plays Tom Cruise and Simon Pegg plays Simon Pegg. It's nothing revolutionary. Rogue Nation also benefits from the fact that its characters were already defined in previous movies, which is why the Rebellion's arc in Rogue One also succeeds. But I think the more important distinction comes from the fact that Rogue Nation knows what it is. Rogue One tries to be gritty and emotional, but lacks any depth to anchor such feelings. Rogue Nation is just trying to be fun, and it succeeds admirably.
Ian Hannah 100% agree. But not normal “fun” like really exciting interesting fun
Very nice! I don't enjoy this movie, but you recontextualized it
I love the "Star Wars Stamp of Approval" sound effect
My favourite Star Wars movie this decade
My opinion on rogue one's characters is that the film tries to have that forgotten hero personas for the leading and supporting roles, which for me fits perfectly into how the characters were in the storyline
Q: Is Rogue One a Good Star Wars Story?
A: FUUUUUUCCCKKK YEAH!!!!!
The film's biggest issue is its premise isn't natural. Galen tells Jyn he's put a weakness in the Death Star, yet instead of (in his very long speech) giving some directions to where the exhaust port is so they can blow it up straight away, he has them go on a quest to get the plans.
Why not, send a few X-Wings in and try hitting some exhaust ports early on? It's a very roundabout approach. A big battle to find the plans and transmit them, then a long adventure in ANH before we finally get to the actual attack.
Worse, it would have been much better to have put a weakness in so that it blows up by itself when it's first used, rather than a difficult to find weakness that needs a whole extra mission to find the plans.
If we're to have more stories in the Star Wars universe, we should have truly new ones rather than the backstory
When Han Solo died I felt nothing, when these characters died I actually felt something.
facts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I like this essay. I think it recontextualizes the movie in way where I might enjoy it more the next time I watch it
I personally felt a connection to all of the characters in Rogue One and I can name all of them and tell you about them. But I know everyone experiences all forms of entertainment differently, so I can understand that not everyone feels the same way
Good stuff man.
I'ld love to hear your take on stand up comic Doug Stanhope. I might bother you about this a lot lol. Hopefully something comes from it.
Thank you!
Very good points
K-S0 is the closest to having an arch.
We're told he's noting more than reprogrammed imperial droid, but his actions and dialog convey a unique but highly cynical personality and make it clear that he is more of an individual than the republic gives credit. When the suicide mission begins, we see him look in disgust at the imperial droids who ARE merely mindless drones. We begin to wonder if he really did join the rebellion by force or if he defected by himself. By the end K-S0 abandons his cynical demeanor and chooses to sacrifice himself for a cause he believes in, showing us that he really had a heart all along.
I will admit that this characterization is fairly ambiguous. It certainly doesn't help that the only real character arch in the story in buried under the rest of the cast's lackluster characterization. I really wished they would have delved deeper into K-S0's personality and how others see him. In a New Hope they bring up some sort of Droid racism that's never really expounded upon. Here would have been the perfect place to do it as the rebellion sees K-S0 as more of a tool than a person.
love how you are pointing that the Rebellion is the integral part of the film since it is marketed as a *War* movie more than your regular (Sci-Fi/fantasy) star wars movie
In my opinion, the only two good things that came out of that movie was Darth Vader at the end and when the empire puts a bag over the blind guy's head.
There is absolutely excellent character in Rogue One. I don't know how people don't see it because it's really all there. I have quotes! The most important relationship is the fascinating one between Jyn and Cassian: their similarities and differences interact so tightly with the themes of Rogue One. They have in common parallel traumatic destroyed childhoods; both have a long history with the rebel cause, but cope with it and think about it differently.
Their paths diverge around personal connections: Cassian has stayed alone, and so the basis of his devotion to the cause is more abstract and less human. This sits badly with the fact that he clearly began as an idealist and an injured child, hence his inner conflict. (K2SO is interesting because we see that Cassian, in spite of himself, has found someone to care about, and the fact that he reprogrammed K2SO and this somehow resulted in compulsive honesty says a lot about Cassian’s repressed nature, I think.)
Meanwhile Jyn being involved with the rebels was tied to Saw, who took her in and raised her and was a substitute parent for her. She still had a personal relationship tying her to something, and his connection to the rebellion meant that when he ‘abandoned’ her (yay re-traumatisation), she made herself stop caring about the rebellion and became the hardened nihilist we meet on Wobani. Her passivity is the result of this.
This gets to Cassian because complete nihilism and isolation is too close to home for him - both his psychological shield that he uses to do awful things, and what he dreads becoming completely, thus losing what he’s supposed to be fighting for entirely. It also gets to him because it’s sort of the opposite to him: he lost all personal connection, and has kept going based on abstract, big-picture, universal, systemic understanding and a rational appreciation of the empire’s evils.
Jyn, on the other hand, primarily cares more about individuals (small picture), and deliberately refuses to “look up” (Cassian spends all his time doing this); but we see that while keeping her eyes on the ground, Jyn still sees and acts for vulnerable children. I think Jyn’s decision - her first moment of active choice in the film - to save that girl in Jedha city is what makes her start getting under Cassian’s skin. Ultimately, that’s what they’re both fighting for - but she strikes him as hypocritical for caring about that when it’s right in front of her (“We don’t all have the luxury of choosing when and where to care about something”), but not about the system that creates countless examples of that everywhere, every day throughout the galaxy, which is what he’s dedicated himself to: “some of us just decided to do something about it”. (Obviously, then, they also begin to be united by the obvious evil that killed that little girl anyway. The Death Star is a pretty potent way of making the abstract large scale power and evil of the Empire concrete!).
Meanwhile Jyn’s relationship with …. everything? herself, her past, her purpose, how she understands the world, her family, the Force itself gets turned utterly upside down by finding out that not only is her father alive, but that his love for her is as strong as ever, and that it’s inseparable from the rebellion. It fills in everything she’s been craving so painfully even since her family was ripped apart, and gives her a way forward. In the face of the apparent destruction of all hope, hers is restored by finding out that she is loved, and that, in a way that’s practical, and right at the heart of the horror that they all faced, that love has provided a way to save the galaxy. Her belief is tied to the strength of her personal connections, and her conviction accordingly spreads to everyone around her. It gets Cassian exactly where he hurts. And then Cassian dedicates himself to Jyn’s cause in a way that hits home to exactly where she has hurt most in the past - “I’m not used to people sticking around when things get bad”. When they come to understand each other, the abstract ('hope’) and the personal are balanced and united, and they (along with the entire crew of Rogue One) are forged into a common purpose.
Yay! You actually gave the first 20 minutes a reason to exist they way they are! In all seriousness though, while I acknowledge that this film has a multitude of problems, I truly think that a lot of people wrongfully criticize this film, similar to how people wrongfully criticize The Force Awakens. Both movies are imperfect, but they sure do a fantastic job of expanding the lore of Star Wars, give us rich and interesting characters, near-flawless direction, and an uncontrollable urge to rewatch them over and over again.
Seriously, both The Force Awakens and Rogue One are movies I must've seen Lord knows how many times! I love them that much!
In short, I love that Disney is doing Star Wars great! I couldn't be genuinely happier. May The Force Be With You, Film&Stuff.
"but they sure do a fantastic job of expanding the lore of Star Wars,"
I disagree. The universe of TFA was the safest they could have chosen and R1 only introduced a minor bad side to the rebels which we never see in any of the other movies including TFA.
Found this way way better then Han Solo's Story