Are these the best BRETONNIAN rules ever? I compare how they match up in Warhammer THE OLD WORLD
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 01. 2024
- Today I am 90percentgeek
10percentFORTHELADY!!
I've finally got my hands on the Bretonnia Arcane Journal and decided to compare how the list matches up when compared to previous versions of the rules. Using highly technical SCIENCE!!! I break down the core elements of their Bretonniannesses and see how they stack up!
Thank you to everyone who has subscribed or has joined my Patreon to support me and as ever you can find me on Twitter, Bluesky and Instagram as 90Percentgeek
Solid overview, agreed on prett much all accounts. I think Bretonnians deserve more general background - 5th and 6th did so well in this regard, if in different ways - as well as more special characters overall. Other than that I feel like GW really nailed the faction this time around.
I think I pretty much agree with your rankings from what I've seen out of the Old World so far (my books have not yet reached me!). However, I think my reasoning is a little different but ends up at the same place.
To put it short and quickly as I can - 3rd Edition Bretonnia (and the "get-you-by" style in 4th) had a lot of emphasis on things like "Villeins" and "Brigands" and things like that, had access to the Bombard, had units with crossbows(!), foot knights, and the like. Very much grounded in 100 Years War amalgam of French and English knights, but with the Warhammer spins - and a nobility that very much crunched on the peasants. 5th reimagined them as more like Arthurian knights and a society that actually more or less functioned. It was colourful, and it was generally a pleasant place with actual social mobility - to become a knight, you had to swear to an Errantry quest, get whatever arms and equipment you could, and go do, and *that's it*. 6th decided that was too hopeful, and tried (and in my opinion failed) to go back to the 3rd edition style "Bretonnian society doesn't actually work, look at how bad they treat their peasants!" and took it too cartoony the *other* direction.
Old World *actually* squares these up for me. The Grand Army list is representing the main area of Bretonnia, which while not quite as permissive as 5th was and not quite as "good", is still far more so than 3rd or 6th visions of them were. It hits a lot of my vision of Bretonnia - though to be fair, that was largely formed from 5th edition. And then the Bretonnian Exiles list is where you get that view where on the borderlands they're not holding themselves up to as high a standard throughout all levels of their society, but also out of necessity using things like gunpowder again (shocking!). So as a result of that, Old World gets a lot of credit from me for being able to rules wise and narratively match up the view of the army / country through many editions, from when they were becoming their own thing to now.
Very well put and I agree, from what I've seen and read of the background this far, including in Lords of the Lance, this edition of Bretonnia is much closer to 5th edition without entirely invalidating some of the elements of 6th edition. In Lords of the Lance it's even hinted that the country might be sliding towards where they end up in 6th edition, but one of the protagonists is notably glad they're "not as bad as things are in Sigmar's Empire".
Good fun though it did feel a bit like an exercise in marking 6th Ed down for the things it was trying to achieve and marking 5th up for the things that it was about.
The less in the way of special characters the better for me, much better if people create their own stories. I do like the Green Knight though, but he's very much a different kind of special character to a general or wizard who's been created for you.
I think that will always come back to my issue that 6th is the better wargame, but (to my eyes) 5th was always more fun so 5th will always get a slight uptick in scoring by me over 6th.
Yeha do the Tomb Kings too!
I did like the 6th Ed Army selection thing. Stopped alot of the nonsense like just Gyrocopters people tried now..
Interesting exercise. I think I would have put 6th above 5th, with the difference being that I'm just not as much of a fan of special characters, so I wouldn't have felt that loss, while the addition of the reliquary and Pegasus Knights would have clinched it for me.
So far I do really like the flexibility that is in the rules, and I think it allows for some really interesting themed armies. What are your thoughts on the rule of three being introduced for the Old World events? Some people are really keen and want to see it widely adopted for casual games, but I think it creates problems if applied to everything.
It seems like common sense in general, though I wouldn't apply it to core as they should be unlimited to my mind.
Really hope with orcs and goblins I can do a full on forest goblin style force 😊
I mena you can technically now. You can take big bosses and oddnobs as your characters and mount them on giant spiders, and take units of spider riders and common goblins backed up by arachnarok spiders, so it's eminently possible!
Mmmmm, mead, oh and great video!
Thank you 😋
Nice! Like your assessment and, although I have yet to get my own copies of the books (missed the boat on launch day, had to order from independent who are undersupplied...way to go GW!) seems just about what I think.
Would like to add to a category about world building. In 5th there was a great deal less of the 'filthy downtrodden peasant's' narrative and on very rare occasions a peasant, through a noble feat of arms, could aspire to Knighthood! Was important, to me at least, in maintaining that nobility and chivalry aspect of the faction, which I felt was very much compromised in 6th!
Absolutely, something I covered in detail in my Bretonnia Lore video if you haven't seen it.
@@90percentgeek Apologies, I'm slow (special) on the uptake :)
Totally agree with ALL scores... apart from 1 score. 5th ediition should be given a up-mark, in the last catagory ''Bretonianess Army building'' from 8/10 up to 8.5. Because they had extra advantage over other factions due to being given up to 75% character allowence. Think this is a massive thing you missed.... and it is well deserving of an upmark to 0.5 points.
It will still not change the placing of total scores. But will just make it a bit closer.
That is very true, I had not considered the extra allowance for characters. I specifically set myself a limit on half marks though, so I think it would still have stayed as an 8.
Alternatively for those who don't want the game to be totally dominated by characters and would like to see Bretonnian armies include plenty of filthy peasants and lower grade knights they should lose a mark and a half for it!
Correction, Bretonnia in 6th had three lores. The Lore of Life, Beasts and Heavens.
Ok, one extra point to 6th edition!
I do like me some hand wavy wibledy wobledy rules!
I disagree with the characters take.
Most of the special characters in 5th weren't taken, as they were easily represented by unnamed heroes.
Right now, unnamed heroes are great (especially Dukes!). The fact that 6th and TOW allow for free BSBs (who aren't rubbish Champions) is also a bonus.
The free BSBs is somewhat offset by 5th letting you take a standard bearer and musician for a unit of knights for free. Across the whole army that actually worked out more points effective
@@90percentgeek It's not just the points, it's the fact that it was a one wound champion in 5th.
I think you are subject to Shiny object syndrome (SOS), so far you´ve ranked every the Old World book as the best ever, but in all honesty, I wasn't too impressed by this one, the loss of animosity alone should put it down quite a few notches, also it may have more fluff than the 6th edition book, but it's nowhere near the 4th/5th edition book, 8 is way too high & the Waaagh factor is not an 8 either. I prefer the original book by far. Same with the Bretonnia which you ranked too high as well imo. Agree with Tomb Kings though.