Ace Attorney Makes NO SENSE
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- I love Ace Attorney. Obviously. But its universe can be questionable at times. In this video, I’m going to take a look at some of the things that I think make little sense in the Ace Attorney universe.
- Hry
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hi i like act attorney too
The legal system in the Ace Attorney series is weird.
For instance, the usual punishment in murder cases is the death penalty. At first glance, it makes sense: if you take life, your life is taken. But it's all at first glance.
This will create just more incidents like SL-9, where the culprit will kill all the witnesses because even in the worst case possible, the worst sentence they can get is hanging.
I also see no logic behind the sentences: they are not mentioned after the verdict, and I see nothing that can increase or decrease the severeness of punishment based on the severity of the crime.
Verdicts. The only time we can see an actual appeal is 3-3, when we participate in an appeal trial, and it's only because of this particular time with this particular phony Nick.
And lastly, ambulances. It appears that most people don't make it out alive. Unless they have passed the bar exam, of course.
Plot Twist: Japanifornia doesn't change their system because every trial is like football. People fanatically watch their favorite attorneys and prosecutors fight and bet who wins.
JAPANIFORNIA IS A DYSTOPIAN SOCIETY, AND I AM SOMEHOW OKAY WITH THIS HEADCANON!
I cant believe katakoyzina likes ace attorney no way
Of course man, Phoenix just decided that the body was pendulumed to the other side of a burning bridge and he was somehow right
He *deduced* it correctly because Phoenix and Godot have the same cracks in their skulls from being dropped as kids 💀
Nah Wellington in 2-1 ruined him. Was never the same after that. Poor brain.
@@tbone415 lol
I was the whole time "HUUUUUUUH??!? TF??!?!"
Can we say that Wellington is indirectly the hero in Bridge to the Turnabout if that's where the brain damage comes from?💀
Wellington sweep 📈
One of the craziest things is that even WHEN you prove there is reasonable doubt that your client didn't commit the crime, you're still basically charged with finding who the real criminal is. That's the police's job, once you've established that your client isn't the murderer, they should let you go and have someone else figure out who did it.
and that's in a less than fair justice system rather than the innocent until proven guilty of the US and probably some others and then also without sufficient investigation that most countries without that (such as Japan) have.
So you rather want them to stop the case before anything exciting happens?
@@Shazam1998 they weren't arguing it from a game design angle, they were arguing from an in universe story angle
Pretty much the only time we almost get a not guilty verdict through simply proving our client didn't commit the crime was in Case 1 of Justice For All.
@@BigM5304 nope, I don't think so...the only example I can think of is case DLC of DD
I don't know what's funnier to imagine
1. Every case in the ace attorney universe is like this
2. Only Phoenix and Co. are like this and everything else is normal outside of it
Also on the serenade thing considering the the killer is part of the police department and shown to be actively involved with the case I think that may explain it thou that has issues in why he was allowed involvement when he was directly involved but given even Emma seems kinda off on that I think it may be the case of some mixed up storytelling
All the Machi twists piling up that he wasn't blind, understood English, and co-conspired in cocoon smuggling had me waiting for some kind of, oh yeah he's also got a Bionic Arm, so the weapon and moving the large man would be possible. If they puffed up his sleeves a bit more he could've concealed that from the player till the trial.
I could've sworn the context of Phoenix not knowing basic law procedures was that he was nervous and blanking on the information.
In all fairness, it's only really the original trilogy (and some of the more veteran prosecutors in later games) that has prosecutors that are actually corrupt. Klavier Gavin has a couple of sus moments in Turnabout Serenade, but is overall very relaxed and not bothered when his case starts to tank. Sebastian Debeste is too (lovably) stupid to concoct the layers of corruption the trilogy prosecutors oftentimes got away with, and shows that he would never stoop to that level anyway once the final case rolls around. Simon Blackquill is intimidating and borderline violent, but it's mostly for comedic effect. As a prosecutor, he's very strict about trials being akin to a duel between the defense and the prosecution, and doesn't tolerate any shenanigans, even from his own witnesses.
Barok van Zieks is highly against corruption, and plays things purely by the rules, again only being aggressive because of other factors at play. Same goes for Nahyuta Sahdmadhi. The only on-screen prosecutor post-Trials and Tribulations that is honestly "corrupt" is Gaspen Payne, who got demolished by Edgeworth and is no longer even an active prosecutor in the country anymore.
Spoilers for investigations 2
You forgot Blaise Debeste (and looking at your assessment, his downfall probably played a huge role in the later prosecutors being less corrupt).
Ace attorney makes no sense. And that's the exact reason why I got into the series in the first place lol
I had a friend of mine explain that the court system in AA is based off the Japanese justice system, which operates under the guise of “guilty until proven innocent,” unlike the mentality of “innocent until proven guilty” that Americans are used to. It’s why so many innocent people end up accused and convicted. That happens in Japan a lot, at least according to my friend.
I know. Doesnt mean the things brought up in this video suddenly make sense haha.
That's not true. If you look up the criminal code of Japan, defendants are innocent until proven guilty (granted, it has a asterisk saying if there's any different between the English and Japanese translations of the text, the Japanese wins out, so maybe some subtlety is lost in English). One reason why Japan has such a high conviction rate is because by the time you get to trial, it's almost a guarantee the defendant is guilty. Any innocence found, and the prosecution is just gonna drop the case.
@@yep2yel often times even police dont make arrests until theyre 100% certain, which is problematic because they're pushed into maintaining that high conviction percentage. Which means that if you get arrested you're going straight to jail and theres incredible pressure to convict you rather than do an honest trial.
If an arrest leads to a conviction 100% of the time its not the court that convicts you but the police officer in the streets.
The weirdest thing is how phoenix creates a jury with a person who knew the defense just to catch Kristoph.
The one thing that always bothered me was the “win streaks” that like every attorney has, even Winston had one and he’s not even corrupt! How does that even happen lmao? Excluding the Engarde case, Phoenix had one too, often he only agreed to represent them AFTER he knew they were innocent - which totally breaks my immersion because it kind of implies he thinks guilty people don’t deserve a proper defense under the law. After the first game, every time Edgeworth takes a case against Phoenix he probably knows he’s going to lose, but HE at least properly represents the state despite that…
I think the point is that they only take cases they believe they'll win...and honestly any non-state appointed lawyers really have the choice of refusing to represent someone. And honestly, if you believed someone was guilty you probably wouldn't defend them UNLESS either A) they got paid well regardless of verdict or B) they WERE corrupt and would use whatever means necessary (even shady ones) to win for a guilty client
As far as the prosecutors go, in theory if they did really good investigations (which to be fair, MOST cases have a bit more condemning evidence than turnabout sisters or serenade) so that way they'd try to get the right person to begin with and then from there, the shady ones might do shady things if it starts looking like the defendant has a chance of being found guilty.
And Winston is only sort of non-corrupt bc his win streak came from only facing rookie attorneys (except 2-1 and 3-3's bad trial, yes in the first case Phoenix had amnesia and in the second, it wasn't actually Phoenix...but he didn't know that in either case...well possibly he could have in 3-3 but then that's a WHOLE new can of worms...either way in 2-1 his actions make zero sense)
OBJECTION!
(sorry)
You speak of "win streaks" as if they are "projections" that any lawyer, on either side, may go undefeated. This, objectively, could be true. The same, however, I find, subjectively, is under scrutiny due to the several constructs that intertwine track record, reputation, mental ability, physical ability, understanding, charisma, reasoning, logic, pattern recognition, logic recognition, semantics, foresight, lingual interpretation, and, for lack of a better term, finally, "bullshit" recognition, in addition to evidence production and interpretation and witness testimony production and interpretation.
Legally, perhaps they would have an *objective* way to solve cases.
Legally, also, perhaps, there is also a *subjective* way to solve cases, which involves the way that I, personally, find there to be the combination of the constructs of scrutiny I have listed above to solve cases.
Finally, legally, both of these trains of thought, as well as whether they may or may not be either "objective" or "subjective", are both equally under scrutiny, and must be investigated.
The Truth must always be found, regardless.
TL;DR: Not to sound like an Ace Attorney Fanboy, but... The Truth must always be found, and explored, regardless.
Prosecutors actually are not only fairly not surprising they’d get a win streak it’s hilariously unremarkable of an idea. The series is based of the Japanese law system obviously, but one of the biggest stand out issues is just how fucked it is. For all intents and purposes the defense wins a case once for every a hundred wins the prosecution gets. So realistically that’s just the system. It’s in fact impressive that any of them have losing streaks because the systems so corrupt and rigged they’d realistically be able to bounce back in like a week.
winston payne isn't nearly as corrupt as some of the other prosecutors, but he is known as "the rookie killer", meaning he prosecutes mostly cases with rookies that are easier for him to beat. he has a win streak because he always seeks out defense attorneys that are way below his league.
>implies he thinks guilty people don't deserve proper defense under the law
They... don't? If you're guilty, you deserve punishment. Period.
The amount of witnesses that lie on stand is crazy LMAOO💀 you can get away with lying so much and tampering n not get in trouble
Edit: turnabout serenade frustrated me so much with how inconsistent it was💀 it made 0 sense
One thing you forgot to add about Turnabout Serenade
During the entire scene you described, Machi is believed to be BLIND. And the reason they think he could’ve fired the weapon? Because the killer missed one of their shots
The police believe this 14 year old BLIND kid shot a man with a gun so powerful it would’ve shattered his hand and fingers along with the dislocated shoulder with it’s recoil, then escaped through a vent on the ceiling, and after that dragged this literal bear of a man to centre stage and spontaneously passed out
That was worse than the Judge mistaking Furio Tigre for Nick. Just sheer stupidity at its finest.
@@GAshoneybear I mean he probably just didn't wanted to ruin Tigre's mood
I have some headcannons to explain some of the weirdness away.
1. I'm pretty sure that if you lose a case and you client is found guilty the judge says this: "the accused shall surrender to the court immediately, to be held pending further trial at a higher court a month from now". Maybe that means sentencing, but I figured that means the Phoenix Wright level trials are the first step, during which the prosecution basically has to prove they have a reasonable case. That's why it's so in favour of the prosecution. An innocent verdict means the prosecution couldn't prove they have a reasonable case and is equivalent to getting the case dismissed. That also explains why the trials are so short.
2. Also, some justice systems are just very prosecutor friendly. It's a lot more fashionable to promise to be hard on crime by beefing up the prosecutor's powers, and it's good for your statistics come re-election if you reduce the defence's powers. Just saying.
3. Regardless of all that, I straight up ignore the idea that Phoenix hasn't been doing legal work between cases in the games, even though the text of the game explicitly says he hasn't. Maybe he's been doing a fair amount of work that he doesn't count as taking cases. Writing letters-before-action, giving advice to people who may be in trouble before they actually get into court, arranging out-of-court settlements, helping with civil disputes, maybe lawyers can also act as notaries, maybe low level investigative work (most of the work Private Eyes do is notoriously boring, and Phoenix Wright was originally envisioned as a Private Eye game, so...), doing people's tax returns.
trials canonically used to go indefinitely. phoenix talks in the first game about how it was changed to three days (gregory edgeworth's last case lasted a whole year (play investigations 2 fan translation its very good)) and maggey in Recipe was shown to be sentenced solely based on Don Tigre's defense in court so the higher court definitely is just sentencing. but your hc is definitely the way it SHOULD'VE been even if its a bit lower stakes
@@blissfulstatic2563 Gregory's trial was a year long because the fucking body disappeared. That was the reason it had to be extended.
@@WebbedManiac ok and?
@@WebbedManiac like, you're saying that gregory's case was a special exception? and not just how trials were like before the first game like it's deliberately, canonically, explicitly stated?
in defence of ponco the robot from duel destinies, she never really knowingly lies in her testimony. its just what witnessed was entirely different to what she thought she witnessed for a few reasons. but i guess she probably doesnt count, cause shes a robot.
so il pick a human example with mike meekins. he didnt knowingly lie on the stand, its just the event he got tangled in had way more ramifications then what he thought. he did believe marshall was goodman, and he did ask him to show his badge, and he did have a tussle with him which resulted in him cutting his hand. he never truely lied about the events, the events just meant something way different to how he thought they did.
EDIT: another example i forgot is norma deplume also from duel destinies. she literally does not lie a single time while shes on the stand. she saw, and heard pretty much exactly what she said she did, and was manipulated into thinking she witnessed the actual moment of the crime. even after her cross examination, the point phoenix proves isnt "you are lying miss deplume!!" its, "miss deplume, you were manipulated into being a witness by the true culprit". she stated exactly what she saw and heard, and her testimony actively helped establish the fact that the scene was orchestrated
Meekins need to catch a break man, poor guy.
@@bakbhai meekins did nothing wrong. a lot of people give him flak for being "annoying" forgetting that hes one of the only witnesses who told the truth
@@codyadams5129 I never got the flak either, but I did always feel bad when I saw Meekins on screen, similar to how I felt when I saw Gumshoe honestly
They're both earnest characters that constantly get screwed over
I would also like to add: Sister Bikini
@@calvinbarbanell2449 very good point. sister bikini was also very honest and did not knowingly lie at all
Something that personally annoys me is when people make fun of cases like recipe for turnabout being so ridiculous when 90% of ace attorney cases are already weird as shit. The villain of the stolen turnabout is literally a pinocchio nosed detective who blackmails people
What really gets me is how rude people can be to the judge in these games. Like Manfred and Godot continually minimize and ridicules the judge and Franziska does all of that AND WHIPS the judge.
I love/hate how in the sixth game’s third case, Phoenix has the lunacy to claim that in his country, people are considered innocent until proven guilty when multiple cases required the real culprit to be exposed 100% before the defendant is considered innocent, even when it’s obvious they didn’t do it. Case 4-3 is the first one that comes to mind.
I got four things that also don't make a lot of sense, even though I still love the Ace Attorney franchise:
1: Very obviously suspicious witnesses.
Like how many times has a witness either said something on the stand or just in their testimony that is extremely suspicious, only for everyone in the court expect for Phoenix and maybe Maya to realize that.
Take Gant for example: The dude threatened both Phoenix and Edgeworth MULTIPLE TIMES while on the stand, and yet no one takes note of it. What??
2: Phoenix making up theories.
Listen, I love when he does it, and sometimes he actually makes sense with them. But a lot of the time he's just pulling these theories out of his ass and they make no sense whatsoever. And yet the judge entertains them and let's Phoenix investigate them, even when half the time whatever claim he's making, he doesn't have the evidence to back up.
3: The judge favouring the prosecutors
Kind of related to the second point, but have you ever noticed how the judge always seems to side with the prosecutor more than you, the defense?
I mean how many times have you risked a massive penalty, or not been allowed to "badger" a witness because of the prosecution, only for the judge to decide that that's fair.
Yeah the judge does often side with you, but the man seems to by default like the prosecutors more, even when they're obviously ignoring the law.
4: The lack of cases Phoenix takes on.
I'll admit I might be wrong with this one, but don't lawyers usually have multiple cases happening at around the same time, not just one?
And not only that, but judging by the general storyline, Phoenix takes on maybe 4 cases a year, and often there will be a good couple of months where he doesn't have a case.
Like don't lawyers get paid when they're doing work for a case, and don't get paid when they have no cases? How is Phoenix making enough money to afford to run his own private law firm? How does he even make enough money to feed himself??
Honestly I struggle on the innocent side of 3 all the time
TBH I have no idea how Phoenix is alive considering a good part of his earlier cases are friends who may not have paid him
@@armoredman6941 Yo true! God not to mention all the dumb shit he does like that time he swallowed and chewed a glass necklace.
Cliche as it is, this is one of the few times where the "The main character is actually dead" theory low-key makes sense considering how absurd the legal system is, and the fact that Phoenix is probably making less money than Gumshoe.
@@armoredman6941 He gets paid but Maya spends it all on burgers.
3. It's mocking the atrocious Japanese courtroom system.
4. That's the most unrealistic.
4:42 Police do this in real life. There was enough evidence to suspect Maya when they found her, so of course they arrested her so she couldn't get away. And generally police don't want the person they arrested to be innocent, nor is it their job to prove their innocence. They want a guilty verdict as otherwise it may look bad for the officer or the police force as a whole (which is why police work more closely with prosecutors as opposed to defense attorneys).
3:20 the best part is that after the first game
the only case with 3 days is the final case of the final game released (TGAA2-5)
It’s always kind of bothered me how no one gets consequences for perjury. Great Ace Attorney helps with this a bit because Gina does time for it, but the games are within a year so she apparently didn’t do that much time lol.
That is because of Gregson that she got out that early
I think Wright in case 1 knew what to do as he entered the courtroom but when the trial started he completely forgot what to do from panic. Also, with the lying on the stand, I decided to headcannon perjury is punishable by fine rather than jail time, and people saying they should be in jail are just disagreeing with how the law treats it. Ever since I started believing this I felt better.
Iris says hi.
@@aminadabbrulle8252 Iris committed WAY more crimes than perjury. Most of them abiding worse criminals.
Phoenix before meeting Mia, "I'm an art student." After meeting her: I'm thinking about switching to law, so I can help an old friend."
Which is insane, Phoenix was only studying law 'part time' until that case, and his major was art?
Your first thing about Kristoph and Apollo makes me go back to "MAN, I wish they held off on his bad guy reveal till 4-4!"
Not that every twist villain needs to be lategame, cause that'd ruin some of the fun, and 4-1 would be less of a masterpiece if we did that, but I was hoping to see more of Kristoph, and it wasn't even at all of interest to me to rip him the second time when he was already in jail. Dahlia gets away with that since they went for the spirit angle.
I think one reason a lot of this makes no sense is Ace Attorney's points about justice are directed at the bullshit of the Japanese legal system rather than the American as it would be a very different game if it was aimed at the latter. It's one thing that got lost in translation Westernizing the game.
The food is already lost in translation, let alone an entire legal system.
The game isn’t a satire of the Japanese legal system
@@Chance4 It is
@@heroe1486 the creator of ace attorney has literally said it isn’t.
@@Chance4 Would you not do that if you were living in the country with this system in place?
Whether or not you have mock trials and such in law school would depend on your country and area within that country. Not knowing what a cross exam is entirely though is kind of weird.
Lying on the stand happens every day IRL as well, and 90% of the time nothing is done about it. Things like perjury are rarely charged, otherwise people would be too scared to testify, in case they make a mistake that is perceived as a lie. People are given a certain amount of leeway to lie on the stand and withhold information until they are pressed about it. As for Adrian, if you account for her massive mental health problems, it would not be a stretch for her to have escaped jail time. Most of what she did is a direct result of her dependent nature and the actions of Engarde and Corrida.
Franziska being able to prosecute at 13 is not that crazy. Child prodigies do exist, although of course rare. Considering her genetics, and her upbringing, it really isn't weird. The weird part is that a court actually allowed it, even if she's capable, but that could be chalked up to her father's influence. I would also say Franziska is not actually crooked. Prosecutors coach their witnesses all the time. That's like prosecuting 101.
The time limit is definitely strange. It's completely understandable from a gameplay perspective, but it's not well justified within the universe. Some trials IRL do have time limits, but never just 3 days, and those are usually civil trials.
IMO the police in AA is made to be incompetent. The police themselves are not allowed to think critically, that's up to the prosecutor. The police kind of just do whatever and let the prosecutors fix it. Maya being arrested, or at least detained, makes sense in 1-2. The fact that she stays in jail afterwards despite the autopsy report is on the prosecutor, not the police. Imagine if you were a cop in that universe. Would you really try your utmost best when you are just some prosecutor's goon? Someone who can duck your salary on a whim. You just do whatever you can and then take your hands off of it. Look at how many times Gumshoe has gotten into trouble because he actually tried.
The Yanni Yogi thing just makes 0 sense. I always thought this was a weird point.
Being a disbarred lawyer doesn't mean you cant work for the court in some other capacity. Phoenix never stood in court as a Lawyer in AJ, so him being disbarred doesn't really matter. The jury system does make a return though in the Great Ace Attorney games, and it's one of the best parts of those games.
Most of the stuff in AA happens IRL all the time. Even using mediums is something that happened in the not too distant past. You underestimate the courts.
What about the withholding evidence?
@@slyceth In Japan, which much of AA's legal system is based on, prosecutors can choose to withhold evidence as they please. They also don't have to tell the defense team about what they found. So yes withholding evidence makes sense.
The jurist system never returns AFTER Apollo justice. Like, in the time line.
And I mean... DL6 happens in the early 2000s. They were long past using spirit mediums bruh.
And just to add to my point about the MASON system. Phoenix Wright, who is proven to have used forged evidence, is put in charge of all the EVIDENCE that the jury sees. He also knows one of the jurors personally. It's still BS.
@@tbone415 The "long past using spirit mediums in the 2000s" part isn't entirely true. For example, where I live there's a pretty infamous murder case where the victim was a 13 year old girl who disappeared in November 2010 (however, her body was found in February 2011), and in that case the police even resorted to a spirit medium to help with the investigation.
The police in the UR-1 case were way worse. They had the real killer on tape, but never bothered to press rewind
"Everyone except Gumshoe lies, cheats, or steals" YOU'RE DAMNED RIGHT CAUSE HE'S OUR BOY
Gumshoe gets his salary cut for no reason, e never lies but when witnesses do lie nothing happens
Pearls is a super annoying character to me in the sense that she doesn't make any sense. Like imagine being 8 years old and helping a 24 year old attorney during investigations and SHOWING INTEREST in doing so. She always comprehends adult dialogues about stuff only adults understand and yet she apparently hears words like "computer" for the first time in her life. This and her age are the only things that make her a child, although in reality she's as adult as freaking Phoenix himself who is God damn 3 times older. Can someone please explain to me why they made an adult out of a child?
Cuz it's a video game.
Real murder culprits always get fortunate enough to have someone else blamed for the crime they committed. But instead of using that chance to make a run for it, every single time they still decide to show up in court anyway. Especially knowing that the defense attorney is Phoenix Wright, a guy who has a reputation of exposing real culprits in trials, why the hell would you go to court and willingly testify, no less?
TO BE FAIR some witnesses get confused and don't outright lie, or forget to mention an extremely important detail *cough cough Oldbag* .
Sister Bikini is actually one of my favourite witnesses because of this. Literally everything she says is true as she witnessed it.
The implications of your 'if this were real' hypothetical run deeper than you think. Contacting the dead would be as easy as making a call on the Maya-phone .. and Maya would be very, very rich indeed.
1:23 actually when Armstrong lied to the court, judge said that he will give him a punishment later
there are 2 things that you forgot:
-you can't win the trial by proving that your customers did not commit the crime because you HAVE to prove who the real culprit is(in that trial where gosdot turned out to be the criminal we already proved our customer's innocense,but that was not enough to win the trial)
according to the evidence law,evidence used in court must meet 2 requirements:
1.it must beverified by the police
2. it must be relevant to the case.
in pretty much every other trial we go to the crime scene or the house of the suspects,we pick whatever is remotely relevant to the trial and present it in court whenever we feel like it.
Also Yogi's plea isn't even the worst logical leap about that case. You could say the media took his side and never believed he did it leading to Misty's disgracing, except no, you can't because the game also says Yogi's life was ruined because everyone saw him as a crazy killer.
You can't have both.
his life wasn't ruined because they thought he was a crazy killer... they just thought he was crazy, not a killer. More specifically, he had to pretend to have permanent severe brain damage from lack of oxygen during the dl-6 ... and if I remember correctly, his defense lawyer encouraged him to do that because it would supposedly make defending him easier or whatever.
In the culture of shame, you absolutely can have both.
About the 3 day rule, that's actually a thing with the Japanese legal system. If you're accused of a crime, you're almost definitely going to be convicted of said crime. They try and make the trials as swift as possible...
One thing I never see talked about is why the Magnatama just doesn’t seem to work in Court? There’s so many times where a witness clearly is lying or has something to hide, but Nick sees absolutely no Psyche Lockes even though he should
I'm pretty sure Shu Takumi himself said that he has zero intention of trying to convince the player that confetti falls in the courtroom when you get a not guilty verdict, or that the legal system in Japan or anywhere else is remotely close to what he made in an investigation game with a PG rating aimed at young people. It's easy to suspend disbelief when you have to tell the defence to check the court record in a tutorial case or if an obviously biased witness perjures themselves and gets to testify 4 more times without being held in contempt of court, because it's consistent with the pre-established stakes, world building, and internal consistency of Ace Attorney. Same way we take for granted in cartoon worlds that the smell of pie can make you float without questioning Newtonian physics.
...On the other hand, the more time I spend court-watching or writing on legal issues, the more I realize that courts often function in really ludicrous ways a lot of the time and that it's hardly unheard of for police and prosecutors to be inhumane or negligent enough to give Manfred Von Karma a run for his money. It's hardly "your client can go to jail even if you prove reasonable doubt/guilty til proven innocent", but reality can be weirder than fiction and we live in a society.
my friends know how much i hate the gun in turnabout serenade, and tend to joke about it sometimes because they know it fires me up
Phoenix Wright *DID* go to art school. Not Law School. So that’s kind of a impressive that Phoenix could even pass the bar. In fact it means ironically the Japanese version of AA makes less sense than the localized release because in California you don’t need a law degree to pass the bar exam. In Japan you do.
Wasn't he an art major at a general university? Because Dahlia and the guy who died in 3-1 were all students of the same school?
There's also that bit where Phoenix says he's also studying law on the side, though we don't know if it's a double major or a minor.
With those two things in mind, I had always thought after 3-1, it was then Phoenix simply swapped his majors around and focused on law.
It's hard to tell what the education requirements are for the game world in general when you take into account how young Franny, Edgeworth, and later Athena were able to jump into the field, even from a Japanese perspective. Maybe it really is just taking the exam with no specific degree needed - kind of like how there really isn't a specific undergraduated degree you need to go to med school, just that you've done all of the prerequisite courses.
One thing I'll point out in regards to the point about witness testimony - in 1-1, Payne calls Larry Butz to the stand on his OWN trial. He's asking the guy to testify when there's a risk that he might incriminate himself.
Lastly, addressing the whole video - I don't think Ace Attorney was ever meant to make sense as they've leaned in to more of the crazies with every game. Look at how the stakes rise with every game - especially final cases. In 1-5, you're fighting against the Chief of Police. In 2-4, you're being forced to prove the innocence of a man who's undeniably guilty. Get what I mean? I think it's a formula that works but has become somewhat predictable. Still fucking love playing the games though.
As for the jurist system, it wouldn't have been too bad of an inclusion if they actually ended the series with Apollo Justice, which most likely was the original thought. I usually argue that Apollo Justice wasn't about Apollo at all, but instead it's an epilogue to the Phoenix saga where Phoenix tries to fix the broken court system and leave a better future for newer generations to take over. Dual Destinies is just a forced attempt to keep the series going and it's awful.
on the three day trial thing- if the court is so backlogged with trials, why does every case start with everyone in the law office like "man it's been months since our last case :/ we won't be able to eat tonight" like you'd think they'd have jobs lined up for weeks.
Serenade was made purposefully ridiculous so that the story could point out these flaws in the legal system as set up for the next case.
But they went too far with the ridiculousness.
i also love how the prosecution requires you to prove motive of someone who you accuse but they never have to prove the motive of the defendant and the judge is like nah ill let it slide
I mean, I'd say the ace attorney justice system is around the same level of competent as the US justice system haha
How did you manage to forget that NOT ONLY do you have to prove your client didn't do it, you ALSO have to cast reasonable doubt on someone else!
You don't HAVE to actually in universe. The game just writes it that way each time.
@@tbone415 Yeah, you kinda do, because if you lose while trying to pin it on someone else, your client is declared guilty
@@tbone415 Actually in one of the episodes you literally do. I forgot which one, at that point Phoenix proofed his client couldn't have done it, but the judge says he can't make an innocent verdict until you showed who actually done it. Of course at this point this is only to move the plot forward, but that was beyond ridiculous, even for the Japan system.
@@georgelionon9050i think this is Turnabout samurai
2nd trial the end of it
Since we actually proved that Powers could not hsve done it
We still have to find the real killer
I remember that in 2-1 the judge was ready to declare Maggey innocent after Gumshoe's testimony after you showed that the name was misspelled and the victim wasn't righthanded, but the prosecution threw another witness. I think that was the only time that a not gulty veredict was teased without having found the culprit. It should have happened at least once.
A fan case I love explained corrupt higher ups buried the Jurist System using every single excuse they could think of. Thinking it worked too well and they would have a much harder time manipulating trials to go their way. Needing to make multiple people agree the ends justify the means rather than one judge.
Sounds like a intriguing fan game 😅
@@thejonbrownshow8470 I tried making my own Apollo Justice, Kristoph gets away in Turnabout Trump because you don’t have the evidence and in Turnabout Succession he makes one single mistake, one the Apollo Justice from the first case likely would have never noticed, not getting rid of Trucy, the girl who delivered the forged diary page to Phoenix Wright 7 years ago.
I thought it was better than a jurist system we’ll never use again. Also, it’s anything but easy. Trucy knows Kristoph killed or nearly killed everyone who could prove he forged the diary page, she doesn’t want to testify against him out of fear he’ll kill her too, so Apollo has to interrogate Trucy to win.
@@SuperBatSpider sounds kinda weird both officially and fan wise that Kristoph just forgets the loose end that is trucy, yet that forger girl and the dad? Gotta finish them off 😂 I hope we can learn his motivations someday unless it's really just petty ness over poker 🤣🤣
@@SuperBatSpider that... Sounds like a intriguing what if for sure lol make me feel even more for her and phoenix's plight
One more thing Id like to mention is how evidence is collected and presented in the anime at least they show it all layied out on a table and they half to use gloves or the files are in bags to show the evidence but none of this is implied in the games so evidence is constantly being either damaged or new fingerprints are being put on it and with how evidence is collected you can just pick it up from the crime scean and not let either the police or opposing counsel know about the fact that false evidence is only brought up and used 3 times is insane with how often you and the prosecutor will withhold evidence to use it as a "secret weapon" and they just believe you even tho no one has ever seen this before nor has investigated it thourly due to how often just looking at evidence mid trail discovers something new about it no one knew you can maybe make the argument that who ever you are playing just takes pictures of the evidence since you can still technically see it their wail your investigating but alot of the time its implied you pick it up and when in later games you can investigate it any time implies you have the object with you
You made good points, that makes me to believe it should have a realistic writing mod someday.
Does anyone know what the track for the transitions are?
2:02 that just go's to show how much of a bro Gumshoe is 🤣
The Yanni Yogi's innocence point has always bothered me, even though it's my personal favorite case in the series
The three day rule isn't even strictly necessary, they could always handwave that your investigations take several days even if Phoenix doesn't go to sleep. For example, in 2-2 you have to go back and forth between your office, a small village in the mountains and a godforsaken clinic. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that the events of several days were condensed for gameplay purposes. Also, the 15 year rule doesn't seem to have a purpose if you have to close every trial in three days. I guess you would need a good excuse to reopen them? In 1-4 you have Edgeworth going on trial for the murder of his father, but as you said, Yanni Yogi was already been found, if not legally guilty, responsable for the murder because of temporal insanity. Von Karma reopened that case on a whim to punish Edgeworth, but there's no reason the prosecution would reopen a case that already got a guilty veredict on the original three days, so that 15 year rule is pretty useless.
Von Karma's eyes @ 2:25 on...geez. the AA trilogy remastered makes it terrifying.
So was Edgeworth already chief prosecuter when Phoenix put togetter the jurist system, because that would explain why a dissbared attorney would be allowed to be involved in such a project. However, that would still be stupid, as giving an explaination in order to fill a plot-hole and putting it in the game that features set plot-hole is really dumb.
There is a couple of quirks that are specific for Japanese legal system which is wild to Americans I spoke to, and they're ABSOLUTELY BONKERS when they're exerregated. (Fair is fair, they're controversal in Japan itself, and some of them were reformed out.)
1. Japan had no requirement to have a legal degree to get to bar exam until, I believe, 2006. The idea was that person get some basic education, and then go into law firm to get apprenticeship, which gives him enough experience to get into exam afterwards. Of course, there is no way Phoenix or Apollo would pass the old school Japanese bar exam, because this thing was a hell (I believe only 3% of people who tried pass it, and most of them had better understanding of what happens in the courtroom).
2. Perjury in Japan has an interesting quirk, legally. In US, perjury is a crime no matter what; in Japan, if a person commited a perjury, but it was exposed and they confessed before judgement is done, it's not neccessary a crime. It can be prosecuted, but the system is allowed to ignore it. The justification, as far as I know, is this: if a person lied on the stand, and government has no choice but to prosecute it (because it's a crime), they has no reason to actually confess, and, more then that, a very fair reason NOT to. But, if they're given a promise that they wouldn't be punished as long as their lies aren't instrumental to miscarriage of justice, it's more possible they would have change of heart.
3. The jury system in Japan wasn't even a thing between 1943 and 2009, and current implementation of the system is different from, say, US. Japanese "jurors" (lay judges) aren't a separate body to the judge, who are to determine things that judge has no power over (like guilt); it's random people working as junior judges in bench trial. The system is controversal, because (you guess it!), judgement process, and specifically trial time, was streamlined and expediented, to allow random people to act as judges without proper training and without spending a year or so acting as a bench judge while still working their day job.
Also, I'd kinda expand one of the point you raised up. It's not just that Yanni Yogi get a verdict of innocence because plea of insanity; it's, like, ok, let's even assume he was fully acquited.
But, first of all, what was the problem?! Yanni Yogi and Edgeworths were the only ones in the elevator. It was established by police that there was one shot (because they wouldn't be able to find another bullet). It was Yogi's pistol that was murder weapon. Like what they needed a medium for? To hear "oh, yeah, I was killed by the only other adult man in the scene, and not by my teenage son? Who you think I was murdered by, in closed elevator?" Why was police desperate there?
Secondly, ok, let's assume police is even more incompetent then they usually are, so, they call Misty to channel Edgeworth, she channeled Edgeworth, Edgeworth named Yanni Yogi (duh). This case go to trial. Prosecutor failed to get a conviction. That's Misty's fault, or her channeling technique fault... how? Heck, assuming they didn't bring her into the courtroom as expert witness (and if they did, the whole Redd White plot makes no sense): what would the evidence they would rely on in trial that she gave them? What was the admissible clue that was refuted, and, well, how?
Thridly, we're told in the last case of 3rd game that it was Misty's fiasco that break people's faith in spirit mediums, and they were really respected, wealthy and influential before that. If that's the case, no one would be laughing on police if they contacted spirit medium. Heck, if that's the case, it's surprising that DL-6 incident was the first case where spirit medium was used.
And fourthy, we're told, in the last case, that for years politicians, businessmen and officials used spirit mediums. They knew it work, and respected it. They used it for, assuminly, decades. And then prosecutor was unable to reach a "guilty" verdict in a single murder case, and "naaaaaah, that totally means it doesn't work"? Really?
Well you say that it's a decent 1st world country but there's so much crime that they thought to make trials like 4 days long in order to keep up
Short answer: EVERYTHING!!!
me: Even more somehow!
i didn't give myslef the time to read all of the commments and find if someone said it, but the fact that the jurist system is just discarded i think it's because shu takumi stopped writing after apollo justce got so much backlash, so when the other writers came in they went back to the old formula, and ther we have it. (also, people may wonder why did they let someone who knew the defense into the jury of case 4 of AJ, and it actually doesn't make sense, since klavier could have complained about it [it's part of how jury works] but well, like he said, it's weird in on itself because phoenix was the one controlling that)
Honestly, yeah, there are a lot of things that are confusing as hell and make little to no sense in almost every case.
But I also find that a lot of the cases themselves don't make much sense... mainly because I can't pay attention or follow the games' logic...
for me the stupidest thing in all the game, is redd white casually accusing phoenix of murdering Mia, after an entire day and evidence created agaist Maya. I was just like "what the fuck is even going on here".
a close second is in Tournabout Goodbyes, when you HAVE TO show Karma his letter. WHY?? you are a fucking lawyer who succeded in explaining how the Steel Samurai case really went by questioning a 7yo child, and now you are so stupid to show the winning piece of evidence to the Prosecutor?. Also, how he zaps Maya in the police department and no one notices is both stupid and hilarious as well.
Redd White had the excuse of being able to blackmail the judge and members of the police, but "I didn't testify yesterday and even had my secretary lie and say that she was alone, but I want testify today, no, not against the defendant, I want to accuse someone else" it's too much even for PW courts. It's surprising that Edgeworth played along instead of getting mad at this dude ruining his case against Maya. Luckily he was also extremely dumb or extremely cocky.
Isnt the three day trial rule based in real life trials in Japan?
I think 3 days is better than the 3 year trials irl
Technically we do see juries in the great ace attorney
I think Adrian got off easier since she wasn’t in law.
7 months is enough time to serve community service and be let off if she has no prior offences to her hand
Given how broken the US court system is are there isn't mass protests, I don't think the mess in AA is reason for the Japanifornian state to be overthrown.
After seeing video title
me:Thats why we love this serise
maya lied down on the stand...
that pun is too bad its criminal
You know, I really like turnabout serenade. I really enjoyed it. But that’s probably because I adore klavier. Cant deny that it’s absolutely ridiculous
"LYING ON THE WITNESS STAND"
Why do I laugh at such a dumb joke?
To be fair, the backlog thing can be justified considering murder cases probably have a higher priority than lower stakes ones, so that's why they always happen within one or two days.
The point of Pheonix Wright games were meant to satirize the justice system's high conviction rate. So yeah, the police working for the prosecutor and being , every witness lying, every prosecutor obstructing justice, prosecutors constantly demanding evidence far in excess of the burden of proof? It's all there to make you feel like the whole thing is rigged against the defendant, because that's exactly what the games were trying to show. Now, it's kind of silly that they try to show that the real justice system is unjust by showing us a completely different made up system that's unjust for totally different reasons but I digress.
Also, how many people actually pay attention to how trials go? I doubt you could organize any sort of public movement to change it, even if it were comically corrupt, like it is in AA.
The games are a satire on the Japanese legal system or similar countries like Korea both countries have similar legal systems where if you are not rich and a lower socio economic background then the cards are stacked against you in a similar country Korea if you have a prosecutor sibling or family member then you are guaranteed to get out free or a lieant sentence it and if the defendent can't get a good lawyer then the prosecutor basically wins now both countries do differ some the main difference for a country like Korea and Japan is Japan is more infamous for arresting foreigners while Korea is not
I mean the obvious answer is that its just a game. A goofy one at that. But I guess it's still fun to point out the things that don't make sense.
1:21 English is great
Judge: Even tho you've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the defendant is innocent, you showed an incorrect evidence too many times, so GUILTY!
7:42 Blame the hate that game received
TL;DR
Good gods Japanifornia's legal system is fucked.
I don't know what you're talking about
cross examining parrot makes total sense.
yolo song name at 0:14
the justice system in ace attourney is borderline insane because series, like the plot of persona 5, is supposed to be a scathing condemnation on how F.U.B.A.R. the Japanese legal system is
In ace attorney the police, forensics, prosecutors, and judges just sit back and do nothing. Trials are all up to the defense, nobody but them makes an effort to do something.
Yes the DL-9 incident made the least sense of all. The police were so stumped they asked a medium.. okay because in the elevator there was just the boy and the man.. really? That's why they asked a medium? I would've understood it, if say someone in the middle of street got shot down from an unknown building and they had no idea what track to follow.. but for the elevator case they asked a medium? How does it reduce the suspects at all. And even if the medium said the boy or the man.. that would have no usable evidence anyway. (Now ignoring that a person outside of the elevator actually did it.. but nobody would have even considered that idea)
DL-6 not 9
Isnt will powers also honest?
Just don't commit any crimes in Japanifornia
Great critique, and I agree that Ace Attorney has some definite plotholes, but some of y'all in the comments need to step back and realise that the legal system doesn't make sense because it's critiquing corrupt legal systems. It favours prosecutors *because that's how it is in Japan*, Phoenix only takes innocent clients *because believing his clients are innocent at all is a big thing*, and the police department is kinda stupid in investigations *because their job is to close the case as quickly as possible, not solve it*.
What I found weird is that the attorney/prosecutor goes investigate the crime scene. That's the police's job ! Lawyers don't that ! I know it's for the gameplay but they could've at least come up with a explanation that made sense story wise.
My opinion is, if you want a true law game, Ace Attorney is not the way to go.
We are in a universe where women can channel spirits.
Honestly, I get why a lot of stuff plays out the way it does. It is a fictional story. It keeps things fresh and exciting. But the one thing I can’t stand is how everyone makes Phoenix out to be a bad guy. He’s literally saved innocent people and caught the real criminals, but then next case everyone treats him like absolute shit despite everyone lying all the time, messing with evidence, they were really going to be Shelley De Killer. Flat out. The judge has to have dementia with probably a heavy dose of Down syndrome too cuz he is always wrong till the very end. So stupid.
Phoenix also states that the judge is “always right in the end”
Yet look what happened with the Yanni Yogi case? God I hate the judge so much.
A lot of the phoenix wright cases just put horrible twists for the sake of keeping you on your toes. 👁👄👁
The leaps in logic phoenix takes isn't shown to us, and our own logic, while still correct, is usually seen as incorrect because its not insanely wild conjecture Phoenix throws out.
Literally there were several times in the game that I was like "wait phoenix wtf are you going on about" and I have to scramble to put the evidence together.
Sometimes the game explicitly tells you that a piece of evidence is useless and then its important in like 3 hours.
I feel like the story is one of those that you write 3 lines and pass it to someone else without telling them anything about it and then we end up with a mish mash of "clues" but there's no way to coherently put them together and be even close to what the game wants.
I've never played it, but it seems that Apollo Justice was the worst game in the series
Its not "bad" imo. Just super meh which means its a low point.
Nice name btw lmao. Fuck EA.
that's facts
This video makes A LOT of sense.
I got a new phone and this was the first video I watched on it Lmao
And you just figured this out...?
Just the way I like it
Man, the new graphics on the original trilogy look kinda bad.